there are so much better specs then pu.. as condi and power. pu just replaces actual player skill with alot of stealth. it is a good spec to learn mesmer on but a bad spec to progress past the basics of mesmer.
Noone is complaining that pu is OP.. people are complaining that pu is just bad.
the reason people think pu is “cheese” is because your damage abilitys do not reveal you from stealth. so its a long boring skillless fight of stealth dodgeroll/ phantasms summons.. hide behind a rock while you are revealed or just block.. then afk dodge roll in stealth again..
This may win vs very bad players. but it is slow and easily replaced by so many other professions in the game that there is no good reason to bring pu to a fight.
It is a spec that tries to turn a mesmer into a bad tank.. instead of just changing professions and picking a good tank.
DOOM (aka. vik vaughn, aka king gheedorah. aka etc)
I play. gsword / sword/pistol shatter. a condi phantasm build…. 2h shatter.. and have 4 mesmers with differnt specs. they rotate specs alot..
they usually do not rotate to pu though… i have played more then 100 games with every pu spec i can think of.. and they are just worse to me.
I play every spec that anyone posts to see its potential in a fight without trying to guess what the build will play like by looking at thie trait list. I try to figure out what situations that spec would be good in and what matchups it will work/fail against.
I played a good amount of power pu.. condi pu.. nepalm pu.. sword/pistol scepter/torch pu. using any combination of utility.
all mantra builds.. every build in the mesmer build list sticky…
just think pu is at the bottom of the list. nepalm seemed to add fun and damage to the trait though.
(edited by zaxon.6819)
Killing people will either raise or lower your happiness more then your scumbag lvl.. i think that is increased my number of stealth activators.. Indirectly it is a factor because the more stealth you take the less damage you do… less people you kill … more sadness..
well.. i can support a wow approach to this situation.. adding more game modes/maps that arent considered the “esports” modes.
like wsg.. av.. eots.. etc..
i understand that there is an orb on one map.. and treb/skyhammer/ blah blah.. but they are all still conquest.
just to make pvp fun.
you should start out with greatsword .. auto attacking them from range.. trying to proc air and fire sigils. using dancing sword thing and izerker to do damage then shatter for burst.
you should really do this until they die or atleast blow defensive cooldowns so you can blink/burst/shatter.
if they close the gap to you you can put down chaos storm on your feet and anyone trying to meele you in it will be at a disadvantage..
the main strength of this build is that greatsword is really good damage from far range.. where other professions are usually poor in a fight. if you are in this position you should just win a dps battle vs anyone with them having very little option but to close the gap.
at that point you can reset your position with blinks/stealths/ w/e and continue killing..
at the point they close the gap is usually a good time to burst before resetting your position since you can IP burst.
If you are dancing around a person in clsoe range dodge rolling bursting.. you are most likely trying to style not stay in an advantageous position. there are ranges that professions do thier best.. learn what they are. stay in positions that give you advantage..
(edited by zaxon.6819)
ADD a skill .. maybe mesmer ..
Explode Boons… That destroys boons on target dealing damage for each boon destroyed.
If you play torch/veil/decoy/mass invis/PU you may be a scumbag. But you wont kill anyone either.. so you will be a sad scumbag.
hmm. k this again.. The main issue with pu is that it is not needed if you are ok at positioning / picking a fight/ using your normal defensive cooldowns. Normally with a pu build you take extra stealth(you know.. where you cant be seen or targeted) so that by itself is almost overkill for making your build defensive and takes away alot from your offensive options.
I understand that it is a good starter build.. but i do recomend you play a harder build to start and learn.. rather then a very simple spec and avoid learning.
If you can play a shatter build(play it well… and win 1vx) you will learn how a mesmer works. Then you can play PU and be 10x better at it (you may then feel that it dosent really have much power)
The only thing i really suggest against(just my opinion.) is that you dont think ..mesmer is hard… so ill just play pu and stay invis all fight dodge rolling out clones..
You will not really end up learning the profession and will have trouble playing any other spec.
If you dont have much time and dont want to bother learning the profession.. then w/e thats the best you can do. If you are one of those (its just a game, Hug the zerg in hotjoin, wvw zerger) types. then pu is a good spec for those options. Even if you want to play wvw as a roamer but cant be bothered learning a skill spec.
The skill ceiling can kinda be pushed.. but the skill floor is so low that it dosent force you to learn the basics of mesmer to play it.. It is good for casual. bad if you want to actually learn the prof.
we just did a very long pu sucks thread.. you may want to check that out.
shatter mesmers have 1200+ range and boon clear. Not every 1v1 should be a cage match vs a 900 range enemy. It is kinda dumb to roll around with them when you have a range advantage.. unless i am missing something thier only real dangerous dps is fire. other then that you can have some freedom to apply a plan.
I tested Str sigil on greatsword.. I am still very unsure on it though. I think thats what im going to try next.. 1 second cooldown to gain might on crit. and greatsword hitting 3x an attack. seems like it would work out ok. Hard to tell if that will outweigh 3 second cooldown bleed on crit.
also if you can land solid combos i can see running scepter/pistol sword/focus.. getting a lockdown on someone with a iwarden spinning on someoen could well. the only downfall is that im not sure sword clones are worth anything in a fight at all.
(edited by zaxon.6819)
I see where you are going with it.. This builds around the idea that you are very defensive vs conditions. Having to force menders purity cuts off some options in building. I personally think bountiful interuption adds alot more damage then 15 percent to illusions. In a power build the 15 percent helps alot more because it only changes your illuisons physical damage not bleeds. In the build i posted you can really feel that as a fight goes on you will get a ton stronger because of compounding bleeds.. and compounding condi+physical from BI..
Just a prefrence though. i havent played with condi cleanse since the start of the game.. since all the old shatter builds(and new ones) have none.
(edited by zaxon.6819)
Greatsword clones do stack a very good amount of bleeds. The main issue with gs clones is that when you dodge roll your clones target the closest target to you. so in a fight with chaos they dont do as much as they can in a 1v1 situation. If you can isolate or get someone trying to bunker a point you can plant 2 gs clones at max range.. and your iduelst hits from max range traited and melt even a bunker.
I use sigil of earth on my greatsword so i can stack bleeds with my auto attacks whenever i get a chance.. It isnt as strong as a power greatsword with air.. but the same concept..
With my build Iduelest is up as soon as you can swap back to scepter/pistol weapon set.. and if you have 2 duelests up it gets ugly for your enemy.
3 points in the last traitline are very important to me in this build.. lowers your torment block cooldown, your iduelest cooldown. both greatsword skills dancing blade and izerker..decoy.. blah blah.. and every point in the last traitline is condi damage. so 4 points = 200 condi damage.
The main issue i have with CI with my build is that my disables are hard disables.. So ci will just overlap with my stun/knockdown/pistol stun.. its good if they use a stun break because they also have to use a condi cleans to get out.. but i think its too redundant for me.
i think one of the strong points for that trait line is Bountiful Interuption though..
our best and most used elite is mass invis.. thieves have a small ranger version of this that is instant and also blinds everyone in the area. pretty sure i would trade mass invis for it in most situations.. half the time i use mass invis its just for me personally.. the other half its to help team.. thief one is 10x better if its just for me.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAR7alknpMtNqxBNcrNCuxYyJaAlL1UpD43BA-TZRFwAAeAAIOCAKuIAp2fwaZAA
is the build i have been running.. It is the same basic concept but not so worried about dieing to conditions. Bountiful interuption makes a hybrid spec 10x stronger to stack 15 might quick boosts your physical and condi damage a ton. if you dont run phantasmal haste the bleeds from iduelest dont overlap as much and it puts alot less pressure on your target.
it is preference though. if you die all the time to condis and disables you can run the 3 condi clears//pu and extra stealths.. its just a much more defensive version of the same concept. Should still work.
(edited by zaxon.6819)
For mesmer you usually get your survivability out of your utility/traits w/e.. and you gear to pump out damage.
Ya.. That is my build i have posted before pretty much.. you dont really need PU.. i eventually took points out of PU and moved them into reduction in phantasm cast time..
by going into the last trait line you gain reduction to every illusion casting skill plus reduction to your main damage dealer iduelist.
it is what i play in tpvp. and im rank 100ish.
After you are auto balanced and get the win bonus.. go directly into spectator mode to force another auto balance to get back on the winning team.
i hear ya.. anet wants a noob friendly spec for every profession. I do think that is a good thing. If people had to play glkittenter as thier first mesmers spec this late in the game. they would most likley quit before learning it.
pu is mesmers version of minion mancer/turret engi/ shadow arts/ i guess.. longbow ranger now..
i do appreciate the place for these specs.. they make sure the game dosent just die.. that people have some kind of stepping stone that they dont just quit out of frustration.. low risk / low reward.. until they can maybe medium risk.. then high risk.
you cant learn to tight rope walk with no net or you will just die.
hmm. well imo.. you dont need either. people who have played since release and those who made the mesmer profession amazing to me.. did not do it with PU they did it with skill. 1vx dominating whole teams of players before pu was even a thing. People who played before pu was buffed had to learn to play without the crutch and still can 1vx. no buffs.. the only stealth being decoy/mass invis.
thats why it kinda pains me that people think they need pu to do anything. people think that if they take the training wheels off the bike will just fall over.
it turns a very high skilled fast paced .. high risk high reward profession into something so much less.
It is having a 20 mph moped enter tour de france.. yes they make it to the end of the race eventually .. slower then everyone else.. and they also put no effort into thier poor performance.
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ya wvw is like one big hotjoin server.. and it really dosent matter what spec you play. And you can play torch specs without pu. People fail to realize that your survivablitly comes alot from being stealthed,, more then it does from pu. Yes i get it the buffs are ok.. But the fact that you arent even a target in a fight matters alot more then PU itself.
ya.. i tried that last night… was kinda excited to do hybrid stuff. i refuse to moa anyone so i guess mad king runes are out of the picture.
krait runes are very similar and do not destealth you while using the elite. you lose alittle power and gain alittle condi.
for gs/staff shatter your main dps is positioning and staying max range and staying on greatsword.. using greatsword auto attack to proc air/fire and using far shatter bursts with phantasm/dancing blade thing. usually only if you are getting attacked by someone you will switch to staff as a protection.
alot of staffs advantage comes from using About face/phase retreat/about face.. to turn phase reatreat to a short cooldown blink that reaches places people without blink cant follow.
There are alot of videos for blink/phase retreat spots.. and kiting techniques using staff.
I think at some point in the past it was called butterfly leaping with the staff.
It says that even the best spec mesmer has is barely enough to make it onto any team. What this says about pu is what my original statment said…. like 30 posts ago.. i would rather have most other meta spec of any profession on my team over a PU mesmer in a tpvp / solo queue match. That was my original statment and…………….here we are on page 2. Of course someone who is a good pu mesmer is better then someone else who cant play at all on another profession.. but if skill is the same then spec matters.. and i think other specs bring more to a fight.
Either does making false statments. TCG could be considered a top pvp team. I understand that the abjured dosent run mesmer but i think they are a team based on playing very well(the same specs/professions they have been playing forever) more then a planned team comp.
And this also goes more to the point of what a mesmer min/maxed brings to an organized team that other professions can not. Stating that top teams dont run mesmers means we have a limited skill set that we bring to a tpvp match at high end. Moving further away from our potential best spec to suboptimal specs ends up causing the mesmer to fall behind other classes/professions in what we bring to the table. That is what im saying about PU … If you are playing it for fun.. to Troll.. because you just want to.. wahtever.. dosent make you a scumbag.. play the game you want.. im just saying what im saying.. you can agree or disagree.. and it seems you want to disagree. so///w/e… you will continue doing whatever you do and so will i..
it tells me.. that as a leader of the mesmer guild.. you dont really follow tpvp.
ross biddle you are saying how effective PU is in competitive pvp.. yet you do not play it and either does any other team.
no.. it was aimed at ross biddle… everyone can play whatever they want for fun.. some people do play specs as trolls.. and some play things because they out perform other things. It is not about if you can eventually decap a point.. it is how fast you can decap a point. In my opinion i think pu can be replaced by other specs/professions for a clear upgrade.. so do most top tpvp teams it seems.
I am all for people having fun.. and feeling a certian playstyle fits them. It isnt even hate in any way..
I think that if you are making pu work in a real high lvl pvp situation.. It is because you are good enough to make it work.. but i also think you are selling yourself short by playing it because you could do more for your team with another spec. YES i know you disagree.. its still what i think..
so you play this spec. all i can do is hope i dont get queued with you on my team. You can play whatever you want and for the most part it has 0 to do with me.. unless i am forced to play with you. It is the bad version of a bunker.
Im not saying you are unkillable in a OP way.. im saying that it is a waste of time to even act as if you are on the battle field. The only way PU changes the outcome of a fight is if a person actualy bothers to stop and fight one. PU would just be wasting thier time to try to decap vs any bunker that has a point already. And if you are trying to be +1 to a fight that is already taking place you are doing alot less damage and control then other mesmers.
You play PU i get it.. You will say anything it takes to justify that the spec you are playing takes skill and you arent taking the easy way out. You dont want to feel as if you arent helping your team even though you chose less damage/team support then other specs/professions.
The question isnt if PU can eventually kill someoene in a 1v1 of = skill. The question is if your spec is optimal.. can other specs do your job better then you are.. If there are other specs doing the job you are trying to do in a more efficient way then you are choosing to force a square peg into a round hole… and comming to the forums to tell me how this peg is going to fit.
If its about fun.. and eventually killing someone.. go nuts.. WVW i can buy the fact that when 20 guys run your way there is a reason for a ton of stealth. but in spvp unless you are being troll .. i personally think that other professions / specs can fill the job you are trying to do better then a pu mesmer.
people.. even mesmers dislike pu because you can run 100 percent stealth uptime and casting phantasms/clones does not break stealth. so you are just stealthing over and over dodge rolling and casting phantasms.. it isnt even really pvp. Im sure there are pu specs that are less abusive then this. but these are the people who give mesmers over all a bad name.
If you run decoy/torch/veil mass invis. i dont consider you a person who pvps. Yes you are unkillable.. but you also do not help in tpvp unless you can trick some idiot into trying to kill you.
As far as you playing and having fun.. go nuts.. its a game.. go have fun play whatever cornball spec you want.. run naked blah blah.. but if you show up on my solo q or tpvp q with that spec i personally would rather have any other person in your place.
no you said,, “anyone that uses thier brain” “fools” .. You are the only person who in any part of this conversation used adhomenim attacks.. But i understand how much you like to play the forums.. and how little i actually care. … you win just like any other forum post you are in.. by attrition.. just like condi pu.. its your style. Now that you distracted me here im sure your team is off on another forum capping it.
heh.. then you shouldnt talk. “random fools” lol.. you have such large blinders on when it comes to spec im suprised you can keep your head upright.
i understand how being a distraction in a fight vs people who are easily distracted works. And i understand how you used your brain to tell me that you bunker a node using a trait that requires stealth. If you want to try really hard to justify that the spec you play takes more skill then other specs.. and you are smarter and better because you use it that is fine.. it is what everyone does. in every forum. I disagree because i dont use my brain and i am not as good. Or maybe we are both just stating opinions.. thats also an option.
(edited by zaxon.6819)
PU in no way helps you kill or take objectives in a pvp match. It helps you bunker mistakes. I am not saying you needed to play PU because you were making mistakes.. Just saying you could have moved those points from PU to something more offensive and been more useful with almost the same spec. I play a spec that is condi atm and im 100 solo q. I could easily fit PU into my build.. But it would cost me damage and i would rather just play better and kill faster then face tank more and kill slower.
The main thing is.. 90 percent of the people who pvp play vs a lvl of people that it dosent matter what spec you play. you dont have to min max as a 90% tpvp/solo queue player.. or someone in hotjoin.. you could randomly throw trait points around and it wouldnt matter that much. most forum conversations are about min maxing which matters 0 to the majority of pvprs.
Pu is in no way a meta build. Meta build kinda suggests that the build you are using is good in the current meta.. PU is not.
crutch or not.. Staff is a very bad dps weapon until you are mid range. The plan for most fights is not “im going to go in there with my staff and kill them” (unless you are an afk condi spec) Your main plan is to use your other weapon set to kill someone.. and if kitten hits the fan switch to staff and put on chaos armor and stand in your field until you are safe enough to switch back to your main dps and kill them.
i understand you can still shatter the clones you produce with staff.. and there is splash damage from the things you do in staff. But is your Oh crap button more then your attack plan. If that is how you describe a crutch then.. i guess its a crutch.. the thing you use to nurse you back to health when you get hurt.
As far as damage and fighting goes.. i would say it is mainly a crutch.. But the movement blinking up and down ledges/in and out of combat with about face/phase retreat is a hard thing to replace. It is a short range blink on a 6 second cooldown.
Playing pu = afking at spawn.. You have almost no impact on the game.. but are very proud that you didnt die in a fight.
make IP proc only while in crate form like necros.. that should fix it.
scepter ele not d/d ele.. dd ele is just doing rotations mostly.. you have 4 buttons pretty much(your attunments) when you goto them you just do your rotation
in a real game longbow rangers are trash.. hotjoin will never represent the meta.
in that very situation where 3 longbow rangers pearch and protect the orb.. its countered by one longbow ranger standing out of thier range but in range of the orb interupting pickups. while 4 of your team clear out all the nodes..
so its a waste to play to win in hotjoin.. just play to kill..
people think that gw2 qq alot..
it is not gw2. it is the forums.. people only come here if they want to cry about things..
if they didnt have a problem they wouldnt bother posting on the forums… so a good percentage of forum posts are qq.. some helpful/guide/ego boost.. some random nonsense.
go watch anyone of any spec at high lvl on twitch.. someone who talks as they fight.. you will see that they know every cooldown that thier opponent has and every animation for every relevant spec they fight against..
someone fighting vs a mesmer will be saying.. "they burned thier decoy, they burned mass invis, they are out of defensive cooldowns.. etc etc.. "
you refusing to do that means you need a more simple game and are upset that this game is more compex then you are willing to learn.
then you deserve to lose.. i beat you on your guardian because i know what you need to do in order to win and i avoid your win conditions burn through your defensive options and know what you need to do in order to beat me.
the fact that i learned that.. and you refuse to is why you lose to mesmer. maybe you just need a more braindead spec. since your plan is to go into a fight and be braindead.
i liked the part when the 20 people worse then sizer flamed and put him down for not being toxic. this is an example of the gw2 problem.. he is better then you for a fact.. he plays at the very top end of the game.
the reason people think the game isnt balanced is because they dont bother to learn the game and how to counter people. if they die they whine and claim the other guy is op.. there are tons of threads like that already.
its almost embarrasing that sizer comes on here being positive and this is the gw2 community response.
it is being out played.. get off the forum and get into the game and practice.. you know the build, go get a mesmer friend to run it… duel them… and learn to play..
if you do 5 in chaos for toughness=condi .. and 3 in illusions for reduction to clone summoning skills. i think it would improve the build without changing the concept.
but i dont want to hijack it.. i play condi with a similar build to the one i said{couple changes}
i would change the elite and the heal also.. but thats just me also.