I take camps with a shatter build in full zerkers. Its all about knowing when to use that dodge roll. Blink and Decoy help too
Try doing F3 then F1… The 15 minor trait in Dom stacks vuln for each illusion shattered… So it magnifies the damage much better than chaining F1 and F2…
I do use F3, but the CD is pretty long, so im more often spamming F2,F1
Can any heals crit? Or are they always base?
I think the ultimate build is a shatter build. A phantasm build may actually have a hgher sustained DPS, if you could keep the phantasms alive, but im not positive. They are both excellent specs for high damage
I wear ALL zerker gear with the exception of a few of my accessories i use the Beryls or Emeralds for some added toughness/vit. I have about 17k health and maybe 200 extra toughness.
The basics are 20/20/0/0/30 making sure you get the self shatter in the illusion tree and create clone on dodge. I run Desperate Decoy and Mirror Image for even more clonemaking. Pretty much just keep breaking out more clones and using F1/F2 shatters. I use a GS and sword/pistol so depending on if i can get close in a fight ill do a lot of swapping for even more clone dumping
those are the current traits im running right now :], aside from self shatter(if i want to stay at range is this still important?). And the same utilities as well. Im confused about how cry of frustration comes into play with beserker gear tho? Will only hav 300 cd? Also i was gunna run GS with scepter/focus. Scepter so i dont have to get in close range and focus for the swiftness! Thnx for ur input, im gunna work on getting beserker set.
Thnx for the support build too. But yes atm i am gunna go for dps, and in the future ill have a second gearset for support.
Scepter could work just for clone spamming but has terrible DPS. I run in for shatters as much as possible, hence the sword offhand. If you can get the 4x every shatter its a good chunk of DPS, especially on longer battles or when every bit of damage counts.
Cry of frustration does some damage. I have mine critting for 500-1k per clone depending on my might etc, so i like to throw it in there then drop a quick three and wrack to keep my might stacks going.
I tend to back out and try to get some good ticks out of the GS when my cds have a bit, but im not extremely reliant on the spatial surge DPS. Dont forget that your mirror blade also gets some nice bounce action when you are closer as well
I think the ultimate build is a shatter build. A phantasm build may actually have a hgher sustained DPS, if you could keep the phantasms alive, but im not positive. They are both excellent specs for high damage
I wear ALL zerker gear with the exception of a few of my accessories i use the Beryls or Emeralds for some added toughness/vit. I have about 17k health and maybe 200 extra toughness.
The basics are 20/20/0/0/30 making sure you get the self shatter in the illusion tree and create clone on dodge. I run Desperate Decoy and Mirror Image for even more clonemaking. Pretty much just keep breaking out more clones and using F1/F2 shatters. I use a GS and sword/pistol so depending on if i can get close in a fight ill do a lot of swapping for even more clone dumping
Losing 15% of my damage for 2k health is a funny prospect, no thanks. I run full zerker, and use no agony resist and i have no issue in fractals, in fact, im usually the last one standing if there is a wipe.
You can still do that, it means if there is a wall between you and the portal you are attempting to click F on, you cant use it. You can still portal from one side of a wall to another
I manage around 8-9k with my iZerker on Orr mobs in. That’s individual orr mobs, not big groups.
In WvW, my iZerker is similar to eq’s above, in that it hits for around 5-6k. That’s assuming I’m running berserker gear. You just have to get all the damage talents, i get about 5k top end with my shatter spec
I also run around in a knight set that makes me deal like 2k less across the board, usually. instead of 9k iZerkers in Orr, it’s 7k, etc. A moderate damage drop, but my survivability rockets up. I like running the knight gear in WvW, because it gives me an edge against glass cannon freaks who try to get into a DPS fight with me.
“oops, did you kill my clone with your nuke? Teehee.”
List of numbers though…
Izerker: 7-9k
iWarden: 6-9k
iDuelist: 4-6k
Spear: 6-8kI don’t really use the others. I used to run whaler a lot, but not so much since they gave him confusion instead of bleed – Confusion is terrible in PvE. He’s probably much more useful in PvP though.
You are so full of it. Go retest you mythical numbers because im lucky to iBerserker anything for 5-6k in full berserker gear.
@swish, yes my mesmer falters against anything with good armor rating and heals to back it up. They simply keep coming and heal up any dmg I do. Soldier stated warriors and guardians are horrid to kill and ussually i just end up switching targets for something more squishy lol.
My Phant spec izerker hits for 8K top end in PVE no scaling, if im shatter spec top end is about 5k
(edited by tqhx.2190)
I like to Mirror Blade Izerker dodge roll F2 Mirror Image Decoy F1. I dont care how bunker you are, if you dont dodge/distort youre gonna feel it! Weee i love burst specs. Of course anyone who does happen to dodge has an easy fight after that =)
The root is annoying but i use Mind Stab in my PVE rotation, it crits for 2.5k. Id love to see the root removed or make it targetted, but its not useless
Just run COF, its the same as zerker and looks sweet
Also like the poster above, i may switch my talents up for some fights where phantasms can stay up, and spend 2/3 of it in GS spamming 1 and stab while i let the phantasms wreak havoc, it only works on select fights though
Basically in PVE this is how i start every fight (roughly)
Mirror Blade, Dodge roll into mob, Decoy, Mind wrack, Dodge roll out, swap set, duelist, Leap, Swap position, whatever 2 is, imba dps while phasing, roll out, Mind wrack should be up again, shatter. Repeat. Depending on the situation, I will throw mirror images out for my other shatters, and i do use all of the abilities, but this is the jist of it ^ Basically i spend the whole fight trying to only run in for shatters, and try to time my sword 2 skill so that when i finish it, and roll out, wrack will be up again
Sounds like im too late, but i would use Dulfy.net and pick and choose out the pieces with Power toughness vitality. There is one for every slot but legs, and i took the precision one. Then replace all the runes with Ruby Orbs.
This is what i did for my WvWvW toughness set, and i run GS shatter
I have an amulet with vitality on it, and thats it. I sit around 15.5k health, and have no issues for the most part.
I have a separate set of gear i throw on for DE in dungeons, such as Magg building his bomb and you have to kite 100 mobs around. My other set puts me around 2k toughness, and 2.2k health.
So i guess if you do have some heavy toughness and vitality stuff you can throw on for the occasions it requires, 90% of the time you can run around with pure DPS stats melting face. Thats how i prefer to do it!
seriously mesmers are dishing out way too much dps. all it takes is
1 iduelist 2-3k + bleed
1 gs autoattack 3k
1 iberserker 3-5k +cripple
whatever that hammer throwing lameness is1-2k
another autoattack 3k
shatter all them phantasms/clones – who [expletive deleted by anet forum nazis] knows im usually too [expletive deleted by anet forum nazis] at that time to care 1-3k
mirror image + another shatter 1-3k + confusion
another autoattack 3kall this in what 5 seconds? all this before i even know what the [expletive deleted by anet forum nazis] is going on and [expletive deleted by anet forum nazis] trying to find a [expletive deleted by anet forum nazis] target but cant cause after all this [expletive deleted by anet forum nazis] dps at maximum range… they can still stealth and [expletive deleted by anet forum nazis] blink and all manner of stupid [expletive deleted by anet forum nazis] and all the while anet wants to play games with my targeting system!
i know this is mainly a hotjoin spvp but holy shiza this is [expletive deleted by anet forum nazis] ridiculous
Yeah lets mention 15 seconds worth of abilities and say Mesmers can pull it off in 5!!! Just dodge the clone animations and Mesmers are a complete joke.
I dont think they will touch Mind Wrack any further. It is what the class is built around, not only that, its not like you can get a perfect shatter every time. Ive had plenty of clones dies running to the target or die just as im hitting shatter. Sometimes blinds and evades make you struggle to pull out the 3 clones in the first place, and during that time you are doing ZERO damage.
Huge burst DPS is always welcome. I have had a fractal group up a few times we run, 3 shatter mesmers and 2 warriors. The Vets die in about a second =)
I use decoy and mirror imagines for FOTM. Then my 3rd slot varies from Defender to Portal, to Feedback
Wait so healing mantras, a 20 point trait, heals for like 2500, but a 30 point trait that requires you lose your clones only does 1000 if you have all illusions out? Who takes this trait and for what purpose, anywhere?!
And that would be why my insp based phantasm spec did not last very long lol. I think it should be 1000-1200 per clone minimum, but im not anet so i cant help you out =(
Honestly i think a mantra spec would be better, since it heals for more, AND heals your party on top of that. I was thinking of trying an all out mantra resto spec if we ever run into content that would be improved with lots o heals
(edited by tqhx.2190)
It heals for about 1000 health as soon as you hit the shatter for 3 clones if i remember correctly. It was working for me in spvp. This was a few months ago
I am building armor + weapon set for highlevel fractal and other dungeons for my Mesmer. Which combination would give me the biggest damage output?
Berserker Armor, Weapon and Accessoirs are obvious but which runes and sigils?Rune of the Scholar or Rune of the Eagle
And Sigils? I’m using Greatsword – Sword/Focus
I’m thinking about Sigil of Force(5%dmg), Sigil of Accuracy (5% crit. chance), Sigil of Bloodlust (10power/kill) or Sigil of Perception (10precision)+10%dmg when >90% hp from scholar is pretty good for mesmer because I’m most of the time >90%hp. Or Rune of the Eagle + Sigil of Perception for more crits?
After some serious maths discussion for GS if your crit is over say 15%, you should definitely be going for power or +damage % and not crit. I personally use +5 damage, and i also use the food that is 200 power for 30s any time you kill something
I also use scholar, the power bonus and crit damage bonus are also very useful
Have you guys ever heard of confusion?
If you are coming from range to have a GS handy for a Mirror blade, izerker before you pop over to sword, then you have can pull your second mind wrack prior to summoning duelist and hope you get a little life out of the ranged phant. I typically start out with a staff and swap to GS and can keep a pretty thick stream of clones coming. It can frustrate and confuse even some decent players
Any good player would want a mesmer in their group. Great damage, great utility, whats not to love?
The Berzerker will also tag a lot of mobs in DE. I run 20/20/0/0/30 for self shatter, so i tend to run in, as im getting close i pop my mirror images, then dodge roll into the mobs to get 3 clones up, hit shatter, then start strafing away, while strafing away i hit my Izerker. This usually gets me lots of sparklies
As far as dungeons go, my dps is on par or better than other people typically. However most players i notice do not gear/trait optimally for pure damage output as i do. I do not use gear with toughness, vit, etc. Purely zerker gear so im at about 15.5k health.
I love Mesmers because I love burst damage, and casters.
I dont have the guts to spend the money on it yet =( I think with a lot of mantras up you would have a LOT of on demand healing. Though you may want to offset that spec some to access other buffs. It may be a terrible idea all together. Its just something i was contemplating trying
Null field is a skill for 6-9 slots, rips boons from foes and cures allies of conditions. You could use that with any spec, he is likely pointing you in the right direction of a good support mes tho =)
(edited by tqhx.2190)
Do you stat for condition damage as well? Why not use a ruby orb for the 6th slot?
Someone mind explaining what all that maths was about? I’m allergic to large amounts of numbers and parenthesis.
I use sword/focus in dungeons as my swap, and sceptre/focus in WvW as sword 3 fails pretty constantly for whatever reason and when it does range becomes a major issue with weapon swap CD for me.
Basically unless you have under 10% to crit, +5% damage sigil is a better option than +5% crit sigil.
(im not sure its exactly 10% but its pretty low, if youre geared zerker the +% damage will always be better)
(edited by tqhx.2190)
Warriors never kill me in WvW, unless its 1v1
I dont care about the patch and I am a shatter build. I do find it amusing this got a ninja nerf, but they destroyed izerker and nerfed us and it had to wait an entire patch cycle. Honestly i couldnt replicate getting extra shatters from clones, but i didnt try macroing it. Maybe they were cheating to get this bug to trigger, either way, i do feel you could get a bit ridiculous on 1 shatter with the might and vuln
I have been running with this build for the last couple weeks with great success. The build can be adapted for tournament play by switching out Arcane Thievery with Portal.
The build relies on the heavy use of the greatsword for the majority of your damage while falling back into staff for more defensive play.
The last rune I use is any +25 power for the increased attack bringing it to 3,479 before your bloodlust stacks.I keep a bloodlust sigil on both the staff and greatsword.
I hope someone is able to enjoy this build as much as I do
What do you mean the last rune you use is 25 power? Do you have a mix of random runes? I use scholars which has 165 power total and 8% to critical, as well as 10% more damage when health above 90%. =)
just curious for all the GS mesmers, what weapons are you using for swap set and why?
Sword/Pistol, they also have pretty amazing DPS. If i hop into WVW i tend to throw on my vitality and toughness and im not such a glass cannon anymore, and my offset is usually a staff for survival tactics such as blink and chaos armor
Heh we just finished with the math, get excited for GC mesmers!
My brain killed itself after reading this thread. What’s GC again? Let’s start fresh. I came here because this topic was about GS mesmers.
I was going to post footage I recorded of iZerker missing his second round of attacks, but upon review it seems that there was damage done just not significant and the damage numbers never appeared above the golem.
Damage is still inconsistent though. Sometimes I hit for 1k and sometimes I hit for 4k. Staff phantasm is far more reliable but does not provide any aoe output. I guess our damage is not suppose to be huge with phantasms and we’re really just supposed to stick to the shatters for our burst.
My problem with using full zerker GS phantasm to burst is the same as my issue with all illusions. When you want to dps you spec heavily into power and crit, but when you do that your illusions have 500ish health and anything/everything will kill them. I still often find them dying before getting off their first strike, and almost always before their second strike.
GC is Glass Cannon. I pretty much throw out illusions and shatter them instantly, and my phantasms seem to be able to stay alive ok half the time when im waiting for cooldowns. Illusionary defender seems to still have some survival, and if you use mirror images they tend to hang out with you, so you can always prop them up and put them on hold kittenter fodder
Thats my problem, either the thief kills me, or he escapes with low health. I just make sure i always have someone nearby in WVW now, its not just the theives that are my main issue, its that when you are alone you are a sitting duck for all the 5-10 man groups that just run around picking loners off and taking supply camps. So really the best advice i can give you, is to try and stay grouped. For now you could always just go shatter spec and DPS race them down, but once thats nerfed it likely wont be a viable choice anymore
Heh we just finished with the math, get excited for GC mesmers!
Im glad you jumped in Rogacz, i see it now. So if i were to only have 5% crit chance, to add 5% crit chance makes the multiple go from 1.0695 to 1.139, but adding 5% damage to 1.0695 only yields 1.122975 (im comparing sigil s) However where i sit, which is 42 crit without a sigil, the 5% damage is actually yielding a slightly better result.
So its really actually a matter of how much crit you have to determine which stat is more useful
SORRY for all the confusion and bickering, i was doing a far simpler calculation that i thought encompassed the cri% increase vs dam% increase =(, you can see in one of my earlier posts what i THOUGHT was the way to calculate the damage increase from crit
edit: guess ill swap my sigil out, thanks lol
(edited by tqhx.2190)
Once again,
(1+.47*(.5+.89)) does not equal 1.65. Dear lord…
Calm down, i posted that before i saw your reply
Too many formulas with too many variables.
Assuming you have +50% crit damage (e.g. 100% crit damage total):
If you have 0% crit rate and 0 +dmg%, then 1% crit is worth 1% damage.
No one has 0% crit rate.
Typical crit rate for the builds we’re talking about is >30%.
At 30% crit rate it takes more than 1% crit rate to equal 1% damage.
It’s easy to observe if you plug in simple numbers rather than post pages upon pages of abstract formulas.
100 damage. 30% crit. 100% crit damage. 130 effective damage (100 * (1 + .3*1.0)).
+1% crit results in 131 damage. 1/130 = 0.77% marginal improvement in damage.
+1% damage results in 131.3 damage. 1.3/130 = 1% marginal improvement in damage.1% > 0.77%
The more of a stat you have (like crit%), the more each additional crit% decays in value.
This IS the confirmed formula with MY stats plugged in
I have 47% critical chance, and 89% bonus critical damage
SO
Original formula
(1+.47*(.5+.89))=1.65
To add 1% damage i simply multiple the output by 1.01, which = 1.6665
Now if i were to add 1% crit
(1+.48*(.5+.89))=1.6672
HMM which one is higher 1.6665 or 1.6672?
Why don’t you do it yourself?
Here’s HIS formula:
LRD = P * (1 + C * (0.5 + D))
I’ve done the work for you already a couple of posts back, but since you prefer covering your eyes and ears and just repeating “you’re wrong” perhaps you could humor yourself by substituting a few numbers into it. Unless, of course, dealing with 4th grade math for two minutes is too hard for you.
Good luck.
No you didnt, you did the wrong work, which for anyone who lives in the real world accomplishes nothing. I am not simply repeating youre wrong, ive done the math above as well. Its far simpler than 4th grade math, but youre too thick to figure that one out
Of course you’ve done it. Your word is proof enough.
Here is the formulas with MY numbers, and the result if i were to add 1% more damage, or 1% more crit;
I have 47% critical chance, and 89% bonus critical damage
SO
Original formula
(1+.47*(.5+.89))=1.65
To add 1% damage i simply multiple the output by 1.01, which = 1.6665
Now if i were to add 1% crit
(1+.48*(.5+.89))=1.6672
HMM which one is higher 1.6665 or 1.6672?
Here is the formulas with MY numbers, and the result if i were to add 1% more damage, or 1% more crit;
I have 47% critical chance, and 89% bonus critical damage
SO
Original formula
(1+.47*(.5+.89))=1.65
To add 1% damage i simply multiple the output by 1.01, which = 1.6665
Now if i were to add 1% crit
(1+.48*(.5+.89))=1.6672
HMM which one is higher 1.6665 or 1.6672?
Here is the formulas with MY numbers, and the result if i were to add 1% more damage, or 1% more crit;
I have 47% critical chance, and 89% bonus critical damage
SO
Original formula
(1+.47*(.5+.89))=1.65
To add 1% damage i simply multiple the output by 1.01, which = 1.6665
Now if i were to add 1% crit
(1+.48*(.5+.89))=1.6672
HMM which one is higher 1.6665 or 1.6672?
Here is the formulas with MY numbers, and the result if i were to add 1% more damage, or 1% more crit;
I have 47% critical chance, and 89% bonus critical damage
SO
Original formula
(1+.47*(.5+.89))=1.65
To add 1% damage i simply multiple the output by 1.01, which = 1.6665
Now if i were to add 1% crit
(1+.48*(.5+.89))=1.6672
HMM which one is higher 1.6665 or 1.6672?
Here is the formulas with MY numbers, and the result if i were to add 1% more damage, or 1% more crit;
I have 47% critical chance, and 89% bonus critical damage
SO
Original formula
(1+.47*(.5+.89))=1.65
To add 1% damage i simply multiple the output by 1.01, which = 1.6665
Now if i were to add 1% crit
(1+.48*(.5+.89))=1.6672
HMM which one is higher 1.6665 or 1.6672?
(D-1) * (1-C) > 1
This is the formula that is not correct
And what precisely is wrong with it?
1-C is wrong, since the higher your crit chance it, the lower the output of the total formula.
Why don’t you do it yourself?
Here’s HIS formula:
LRD = P * (1 + C * (0.5 + D))
I’ve done the work for you already a couple of posts back, but since you prefer covering your eyes and ears and just repeating “you’re wrong” perhaps you could humor yourself by substituting a few numbers into it. Unless, of course, dealing with 4th grade math for two minutes is too hard for you.
Good luck.
No you didnt, you did the wrong work, which for anyone who lives in the real world accomplishes nothing. I am not simply repeating youre wrong, ive done the math above as well. Its far simpler than 4th grade math, but youre too thick to figure that one out
His math doesn’t say you’re right, and you’re drawing wrong conclusions from it. nowhere on his page he says that with over 200% crit damage 1% crit is > 1% damage. He says with 200% crit damage 1% crit results in 1% increase in damage. Which is poorly worded.
1% increase in general means multiplying something by 1.01. So if you have a product of 2 values A * B, extra 1% will result in 1.01 * A * B.
What he’s referring to, and you can check that in my calculations above, is adding 0.01 to one of the multipliers, e.g
(A + 0.01) * B.
You’re confusing adding 0.01 to a damage multiplier with increasing the damage by 1 percent.
So with 1% extra crit you get, e.g.(see above) (1.5+0.01) * P = 1.51 * P
But with extra 1% damage you get 1.01 * 1.5 * P = 1.515* PMakes sense now?
No because you are doing the calculation at 50% crit damage total, which is BASE
This is HIS QUOTE
“•With 50% crit damage , your crits do 200 damage (double damage), this means that once you get above 50% crit damage , 1 of crit will increase your long run damage by 1%”
tqhx, the formula you give is exactly the same, but it assumes that D is biased by 1.5.
D = P * (1 + C * (0.5 + Db))
1 + C * (D-1) , which is D = P*(1 + C * (D-1)), which is D = P*(1 + C * (Db -1+1.5))Both formulas are correct, they just differ on range they are operating, ie C e<0,1>, D e<0,inf), Db e <1.5, inf). And as such, his derviation is correct.
(D-1) * (1-C) > 1
This is the formula that is not correct
Yeah, arguing about math with people who don’t understand it is pointless. My calculations are correct, the calculations of the guy whose page you linked are also correct, I’m not sure where you were getting with saying they contradicted each other. So, let’s take a formula from his page, shall we:
LRD = P * (1 + C * (0.5 + D))
(he’s using tooltip value for D, fine, let’s stick with it).
So, for simplicity let’s assume 50% crit chance and extra 50% crit damage.
LRD = P * (1 + 0.5 * (0.5 + 0.5)) = 1.5 * P
+1% crit chance:
LRD = P * (1 + 0.51 * (0.5 + 0.5)) = 1.51 * P+1% damage:
LRD = 1.01 * P * (1 + 0.50 * (0.5 + 0.5)) = 1.5 * P * 1.01 = 1.515 * PNow I wonder which is greater, 1.515 or 1.51…
Another example:
70% crit chance, 50% crit damage
LRD = P * (1 + 0.7 * (0.5 + 0.5)) = 1.7 * P
+1% crit chance:
LRD = P * (1 + 0.71 * (0.5 + 0.5)) = 1.71 * P+1% damage:
LRD = 1.01 * P * (1 + 0.7 * (0.5 + 0.5)) = 1.7 * P * 1.01 = 1.717 * PWow, 1% damage is again better than 1% crit.
Math is hard.
Apparently math is hard, FOR YOU
If you say that guys math is correct, he is the one im GETTING MY MATH FROM
THIS IS HIS QUOTE
“•With 0 crit damage , 1 of crit rate will increase your long run damage by 0.5% (LRD = P * (1 + C * (0.5)) = P * (1 + C/2)
•With 50% crit damage , your crits do 200 damage (double damage), this means that once you get above 50% crit damage , 1 of crit will increase your long run damage by 1%
"
I said at over 200% crit damage, 1% to crit is > 1% to damage, YOU said im wrong. HIS MATH says im right, MY MATH which i posted above also says im right. Im pretty certain at this point you are the only person i know who does not agree that at over 200% critical damage, 1% of crit outweighs 1% of damage. Im done arguing with you.
EDIT: You also used 50% to crit in your formulas from him, im talking OVER 200% crit damage…
(edited by tqhx.2190)
Want more maths, how about a basic crit vs damage increase formula?
(((CD*.5)/100) x (CC/100))x100=DI%
Where CD is critical damage, CC is critical chance, and DI is damage increase.
So with 201% CD, 1% CC is equal to
(((201*.5)/100)x(1/100))=1.005% increase in overall damage
Mate, simply saying “lol you’re wrong buddy” when presented with maths sure is a nice way to embarrass oneself.
Let’s start again. Baby steps.
(1-C) percent of the time you’ll do power * base / target_armor damage
C percent of the time you’ll do power * base * D / target_armor damage
D is not the number from the tooltip, it’s 1.5 + the_number_from_tooltip / 100, which is your total crit damage multiplier
So, your sustained damage is:
(1-C) * power * base / armor + C * D * power * base / armor
which is ( 1 – C + C * D ) * power * base / armor
Now re-read my previous post.
I read your post, and youre wrong, theres no other way to put it. The entire math behind damage and a very nice spreadsheet is right here
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/75713-long-run-damage-calculation-math-is-fun/
SO im not just saying “youre wrong lol!” and leaving it at that, im supplying you with the correct math
Also im not sure how you are getting all crazy about this, when if you do 200% damage when critting, then 1% to crit would equal a 1% increase in damage. Its a much simpler equation than you are claiming it to be.
Im not going to argue with you any more, you made your point, as incorrect as it is, and if someone chooses to believe you, that is their own mistake. You arent going to prove to me that the sky isnt blue