Guild Wars 2

Ensign.2189:

Polismassa.6740:

2) Your rating is not a pure measure of your skill MMR in a team based game is, and always will be a measure of your ability to win matches.

Just to build upon this:

There are a lot of different facets to ‘ability to win matches’. Players can be good at winning duels or winning team fights or picking winning fights or fighting on the right points or rotating between points or playing good builds for the meta or swapping to the right build for the match-up or filling in effectively to balance your team composition or playing hard every game or not tilting or encouraging teammates and keeping people focused.

Or a whole lot of things I didn’t mention in that run-on sentence above.

The difference between a pro-level player and an experienced but middling journeyman (say, gold level) player isn’t that the pro is a bit better at all of these things. It’s almost always the case that the pro is good at almost all of these things, while your middling, experienced player is good (sometimes even pro-level!) at some of these things, and just a dumpster fire at others.

Good but not great players include people that can beat everyone they face in a 1v1 but are constantly engaged in bad fights (trying to kill a guardian on a fully capped point with their thief), people who can’t win a duel for the life of them but pick teamfights they can contribute to well, people who know a single trick (condi mesmer that always goes far!) that sometimes dominates and sometimes feeds, people who often play well but tilt and throw as soon as something goes badly (thus losing games that could be recovered and won).

The really insidious part of this? If you are one of those players, you’re probably really focused on the parts of your game that you are good at, and blind to those that are holding you back. You’re also blind to the good things your teammates are doing (that you are not good at), while their flaws (in areas that are your strengths) are on full display.

Which is why you think your teammate (with the same MMR and similar match win performance) is terrible, and why that teammate thinks that you are terrible. It’s why there’s a pretty big range of play (generally the 75th to the 95th percentile, roughly) that is just an utterly miserable rage-fast, a bunch of skilled but fundamentally flawed players picking at each other’s faults.

If you want to get better, don’t look at that ‘scrub’ with the same rating as you in disbelief. Figure out what he’s doing that you aren’t – because, odds are, that’s what’s holding you back.

slow clap

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

Honest John.4673:

I have the feeling Evan has a lot of job security right about now. This is a good thing, he’s like the anti-Gaile Gray

I’m excited to finally have MMR out in the open. We can get some great community feedback like what professions dominate which skill ratings to better handle player perception. We have metrics like this internally, but its super tedious to look up the skill rating of every player that gives balance feedback on the forums.

The matchmaker just prefers to put doodoo heads with doodoo heads. It doesn’t change the skill level of doodoo heads you’re playing against.

Check out these pages for fun contests to enter during the Wintersday season!

Dragon Season They are having two fun contests! They are really excited about the festival and holiday season.

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Some of these contests may have regional restrictions, so please read through the rules to learn if you’re eligible to enter.

Good luck, everyone!

Nova and Vovann,

We have received reports of this issue and have been unsuccessful in debugging it. I’ve been on other threads and working with CS to gather as much information as possible so that we can try to get it to reproduce. I’ll add Nova’s resolution to those conversations to see if it helps.

Thank you for writing in and don’t be afraid to write our CS team, they’re there to help!

It’s almost like DH has a low skill floor or something.

If you disconnect from a game, the result will count as a desertion and be calculated as a loss. Getting dishonor in general (like from missing ready-up) doesn’t do anything like subtract from your MMR.

Get 4 of the final tier pip chests.

Pyriall.1683:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Pyriall.1683:

If you are using MMR to pair teams, why are 1,4,2,3 even being teamed with 8,9,10’s? That’s why this system continues to frustrate people.

Because it’s a 10 player game. Those 10 players could have the exact same rating in the best case scenario.

Am I misunderstanding what you are saying. 1-10 denotes skill or simply the number of players?

Just ordering of skill. The skill range could be big or small. (hopefully small)

Pyriall.1683:

If you are using MMR to pair teams, why are 1,4,2,3 even being teamed with 8,9,10’s? That’s why this system continues to frustrate people.

Because it’s a 10 player game. Those 10 players could have the exact same rating in the best case scenario.

Raw Skill Rating will never be given as a reward. If we had an accurate measure of match contribution based on stats, then it could get worked into the Glicko algorithm which would in turn maybe end up giving you more rating.

This sounds really frustrating, and I would like to fix it ASAP. Thank you for bringing it to my attention! Can you give me a bit more information about this? Which orbs specifically? Are you talking about the ones at the beginning, or the ones at bloomhunger? Also, do the orbs appear active? i.e. are they glowing green? Or are they just never activating in the first place?

Were they active at one point but after a wipe they never reactivated? Or were they never working in the first place? If you can reproduce it consistently with steps that is the best thing to help me fix this.

The leaderboard runs on different servers from the old one, so the web API isn’t hooked up yet. It’s being worked on, though!

I like the idea of giving a bonus pip or 2 to the losing team if scores are super close. Just have to be careful about organized farming.

Supreme.3164:

My latest game:

Me (gold ) – dh (bronze) – dh ( bronze) – engi ( bronze ) – ranger (bronze)

hammer dh, owl rangers with lb…ofc blowout match.

For real screw this game ..it’s total garbage, awful balance and horrendous programming

Would be curious to look it up, but your display name has no PvP data associated with it.

Polismassa.6740:

Oh man, so for those who don’t know, this “pure MMR” system (as in, you just have a number that represents your rating) is really similar to the one that games like Dota 2 and CS:GO use to determine their matchmaking. In Dota, the number is visible, while in CS it is obscured by tiers, GW2 has a little of both.

In any case, there are a few things that people need to understand about matchmaking of this type.

1) The only real way to “Progress” in rating in this system, is to actually get better at the game. The pips system allowed you to basically get lucky over time and end up progressing just be getting a winstreak that gained a few pips, and hitting a tier that prevented backwards progress. In this system, if you are at the correct rating, then you should not be winning more than 50% of your games, not because the system forces you to, but because you are playing against roughly similarly skilled player and with players of similar skill (sort of, more on that later). If you aren’t actually getting better as a player, why would this system want to increase your rating?

2) Your rating is not a pure measure of your skill MMR in a team based game is, and always will be a measure of your ability to win matches. Just as an example, there is a well known example of a guy in the dota community who is ranked fairly high (5k MMR), despite the fact that many people who know and have played with him say that he has the mechanical skill of a ~3k player. The reason he is rated so highly is because he is very vocal, communicates a lot, stays incredibly positive, and moves around the map very well. Winning a game in GW2 comes down to a lot of fairly complex things, none of which can be easily measured by any “top stats” the only stat that measure how good you are at winning is how often you actually win.

3) You are the only constant factor in all of your matches. I see a lot of people saying “but I get bad teammates all the time, and I can’t carry them all”. Guess what, if that’s the case, you get bad opponents all the time too. Suppose for a moment we pretend that you are the only good player in the game, and every other player is just terrible, every single time you queue up, you get 4 terrible players on your team, and 5 terrible players on the other team, which team should win? The fact is that if you play well, and at or near your rating, there is a 25% percent greater chance for the enemy team to have awful players.

Now, all of this is true, but since the matchmaking pool is fairly small in GW2, we can have anomalies like the guy who said he ended up on a team with 4 bronze players as a gold rank player. This is only a problem if the enemy team didn’t have a similar composition (like 3 bronze players and two silver players) but regardless, matches like that shouldn’t happen.

In general though, i really like the new rating system, it’s a lot more straightforward as a system for rating players and matching them against each other. And as someone said earlier in this thread:

Kuya.6495:

I think people here genuinely aren’t used to having their skill level represented as something tangible and when they find it doesn’t match their own perception of how skilled they are, they get angry.

Upvote for truth.

You are matchmade with Skill Rating.

shion.2084:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Well now that we will have visible ratings, we will start talking to the community about averages, ranges, deltas, everything MMR. Average/starting rating is 1200, and has a bell curve distribution.

Hi Evan, 2 things.

First a Hypothesis. The 50/50 hate may be generated by the perception that the following can happen.
1) I am winning several matches in a row.
2) There is a small population of players queueing.
3) My reward for doing well is to be placed with worse and worse players to average out for my relatively high MMR. So with 10 players in queue my reward might be Me (MMR1) and MMR7 – MMR10 vs. MMR2 -MMR6. (where MMR1 is the highest of the 10 in the match)

Essentially the perception that rather than teaming me up with better allies and against better quality opponents (which less people would object to as its more thrilling matches) , my reward for doing well could end up being matches where I’m teamed with crappier and crappier teammates to account for my doing well. Essentially seeing how far I can carry worse and worse people until I break. (Un-fun).

Is the above possible given certain populations of player queues?

No, the system is not out to get you. If you have the highest MMR in the queue, I believe the absolute worst outcome is 1,4,6,8,10 vs 2,3,5,7,9.

shion.2084:

NEXT:

You are starting new players at 1200, an expected average rating? So if I really am 1200, I’ll be more likely to be teamed with new folks, and play against new unknown folks? (assuming a healthy dose of new folks keep coming in through out the season). Does this not seem somewhat problematic to you?

Now lets say you get teamed with 4 random blokes and the other 5 rando new blokes at 1200 are better, so you sink in MMR and will play with folks whom also happened to randomly lose. Would that not be frustrating if the bulk of people you keep getting teamed with are totally random unknown players and you keep getting 1 or 2 who sink things for you? Lets say you manage to climb back to 1200…. do you not then get the rando lottery of being likely to be paired with a bunch of untried folks again?

The matchmaker uses number of games played to avoid this. Moving the starting rating will just change which players get affected. Its best to start players where they are likely closest to their true rating.

Bug Fixes:

• Corrected the inventory for the Bloodstone Black Lion Weapons Specialist.
• Fixed an issue in which the Ardent Glorious armor did not have infusion slots.
• Guardian—Virtue of Justice: Fixed a bug that caused Permeating Wrath to use 2-second burning in PvP instead of the intended 4 seconds.

We became aware of a problem created when Personal Story steps were reordered last year. When the reordering took place, some players were unable to complete their Personal Story. This sometimes happened if they left the Personal Story either to play Living World Seasons 2 or 3 or to play Heart of Thorns.

For players who were affected by this bug, we developed a correction that was implemented in the build of 13 December. Those who were impacted by the issue received an in-game mail when the correction was made. If your Personal Story progress was previously blocked, you should be able to continue it at your convenience.

If you believed you had completed your Personal Story, but there actually was a gap in completion due to the story reordering, your progress has been reset to your last completed quest step. This is intended to allow every player the opportunity to experience their Personal Story in its entirety.

This fix targets those characters having a gap somewhere in their Chapter 7 and/or 8 story lines only. No other Personal Story, Heart of Thorns, or Living World quests should be affected by this fix. If your progress within these Chapters has been reset and you received the letter from Scholar Aiti about your story, then you had a gap in the Personal Story at some point, even if you were not able to see that you were blocked from resuming your story. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, but hope that the opportunity to experience your story at its fullest will help make up for our error.

So you can put up super rude names for all to see? I KNOW WHAT YOU DID ON THE GUILD BOARDS.

Pyriall.1683:

Evan Lesh.3295:

MoZing.1594:

1st match isn’t counting for people.

Losses still being recorded when its 4v5 and affecting placement/skill.
Placement ladder says you still have 1 match left after you get your placement (even with that 1st match you played that didn’t count.)

Would have went 11-0 for placement if people didn’t D/C and would have more than likely placed top 100 rather than top 250. Literally due to people just d/cing and the match getting thrown.

IMO this system needs to be fixed, and reset for the current season without these garbage bugs that completely affect what would otherwise be a legitimate outcome.

Losing with a disconnected player does not affect your rating, but it does consume a game played. You essentially got to see your placement rating 1 game ‘early’.
Only the leaderboard is missing the games and will be fixed retroactively.

None of these would change the outcome of your placement.

If the match making algorithm is attempting to place a pool of similarly ranked players together before breaking them into teams, why are we not splitting double duo queues onto opposite teams. We are getting 2 duo queues vs 5 solo queues.

Because the duo queue has a rating boost and the matchmaker made the teams as evenly-skilled as possible. We balance this boost around premade winrates. We could split them up regardless of rating, but it would mostly affect perception and the case where duos are probably high skilled players without accurate ratings yet at the beginning of the season.

MoZing.1594:

1st match isn’t counting for people.

Losses still being recorded when its 4v5 and affecting placement/skill.
Placement ladder says you still have 1 match left after you get your placement (even with that 1st match you played that didn’t count.)

Would have went 11-0 for placement if people didn’t D/C and would have more than likely placed top 100 rather than top 250. Literally due to people just d/cing and the match getting thrown.

IMO this system needs to be fixed, and reset for the current season without these garbage bugs that completely affect what would otherwise be a legitimate outcome.

Losing with a disconnected player does not affect your rating, but it does consume a game played. You essentially got to see your placement rating 1 game ‘early’.
Only the leaderboard is missing the games and will be fixed retroactively.

None of these would change the outcome of your placement.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Benjamin Arnold.3457:

I love getting feedback like this. It helps inform our decisions about what changes to make and when to make them, and for the record we agree with a lot of the assessments you have all given here. Keep it coming!

Our assessments are all over the map; I wonder which you guys agree with

That is for me to know, and you to find out

We are aware of this issue and testing a fix internally. Thanks for the report!

I love getting feedback like this. It helps inform our decisions about what changes to make and when to make them, and for the record we agree with a lot of the assessments you have all given here. Keep it coming!

We are tracking these bugs.

Ray Koopa.2354:

I wish we could change the screenshot format… the JPGs are horribly compressed.

-bmp may be of interest.

Post above is correct. I’ll post up more information soon.

Intended as of this moment. We will continue to evaluate the complexity/design trade-offs for how placement matches behave compared to non-placement matches.

JMcore.4652:

Bug or just bad matchmaking?

Neither. This is how MMR works. The more accurate it gets, the less it moves.

DeWolfe.2174:

Just had to log out of this. The first 10 games were fun and I went 7/3. Then once the rating hit it was defeat, defeat, win, defeat, defeat. Just like previous seasons, there’s this “screw you wall” where the game just starts putting you into impossible matches. Absolutely no fun to have such poor quality match’s either.

Should have tanked the first 10 games and probably would have had a much more fun season. Now I’m locked into this for months.

The longer the season runs, the better matches will gets. It hasn’t even been 12 hours yet. There are a lot of people that will be going through placement matches for a while, and they don’t have a fully accurate rating yet. This ‘wall’ could just be players getting home from work and school and playing PvP for the first time today.

Cynz.9437:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Tiefsee.3647:

Evan Lesh.3295:

I will wait a couple days before raging. I’ll be spending that time fixing bugs anyways.

Can’t you just say they would be features?

I’m actually getting nervous about the lack of bugs.

You want some bugs? Here you go: if you team up and your teammate queues while you are in combat, you can’t accept the queue (was the same before patch) HOWEVER once you get out of combat you STILL can’t accept the queue and have to cancel it and queue yourself.

Laaaame.

Sins.4782:

I found a bug for you Evan, system shows me with 1649 rating with platinum badge, but says the minimum bound is 1650 rating. If I had to guess I’d say there’s some rounding involved with one number but not the other, but idk.

I THOUGHT I FIXED THAT
awef;aw3f8q[2w34fgaiosdrf g

Apparently this didn’t get addressed. I thought it had, but we must have only planned on it. I will be addressing this before the end of the season. Either season ratings will get cleared on transfer (not ideal), or I will split NA/EU season stats.

Only the leaderboard is missing byes and forfeits. League UI and placement games are correct. The fix will be retroactive once you play a game after the fix goes out.

I wanted to post that this is all cleared up now. You might say that with this fix, “No nudes is good nudes” and you may proceed to purchase armor from our venerable (and suitably chastened) NPC.

Please post the full crash details (as a text file)

Bug Fix:

• Fixed an issue in which the Ardent Glorious armor would sometimes not appear.

Late Notes:

• Added validation for chapters 7 and 8 of the personal story. Characters who had quests erroneously marked as complete will receive in-game mail from Scholar Aiti and be able to continue their personal story.

Crinn.7864:

Evan Lesh.3295:

R O C.6574:

I guess my only question about the placement matches is this: Is our placement rating based on game stats or W/L?

If by game stats you meant he damage, healing, defense, etc, then no, those don’t factor into rating adjustments.

If those stats don’t factor, then how come the guy (jaberse.8726) that I duo’ed all ten placement matches with ended up with a different rating?

Because you had different ranked ratings that got moved towards the average to start the season with.

I believe its forfeits/byes missing.

Tiefsee.3647:

Evan Lesh.3295:

I will wait a couple days before raging. I’ll be spending that time fixing bugs anyways.

Can’t you just say they would be features?

I’m actually getting nervous about the lack of bugs.

Glad you’re enjoying it!

Forfeits (teammate disconnected for 2 minutes and got dishonor) do not count against your rating, but do count as a game played, which I may change for placement.

R O C.6574:

I guess my only question about the placement matches is this: Is our placement rating based on game stats or W/L?

If by game stats you meant he damage, healing, defense, etc, then no, those don’t factor into rating adjustments.

Fifteen Yeseroos

Hmm, I suppose it would still count up games played, but ratings are not adjust on forfeits. I suppose they shouldn’t count as a placement game either.

We are discussing this internally.