Guild Wars 2

It reduces diversity a bit and I can imagine in the future with several elite spec this might be bad when certain weapon combinations would be really interesting but you can’t use both.

Yes. It’s hard to say why but I think it’s because of the depth of field (of objects far away), the fog and the “miniature-ish” style some maps seem to have. There is just something off on that. This is also on almost every map and makes them all feel more the same.

The most annoying part is simply KC and its 2 randomly selected mechanics where one gives you more time to CC.

The sad part about that? Fixing it should be no problem. If anet uses normal coding it’s just changing one Integer to a slightly higher one. (Either the time the attack starts or the time the circles need to explode)

In case Anet is reading this.
IMPORTANT: Make sure to not add too many default models to the player housing so the players can put more objects at one place on their own. Let the players decorate their place not you. Thanks.

First they have to fix the multiloop. Then with more maps and meta events getting added I would also suggest to add a daily changing bonus on loot for a single map. Something like 1.5x loot on TD this day and 1.5x loot on VB the next day and so on.

Basically channel the player base on a certain part of the game so everything will be played at some time and to have more variation.

You can never have enough “Kingdom Hearts” music.

mauried.5608:

Im not a fan of the JPs, but the thing is they are puzzles, not just jumping events where all you have to do is follow the arrows and keep jumping.
There has also got to be a puzzle component of it, so that figuring out where to go is part of the puzzle.
Not everyone will be able to do all the JPs, which is no differant to most of the games contents.
Maybe Anet could put a sign at the start of each JP with some info about how hard it is, like warning really hard JP ahead, enter at your own risk.

The problem is that such “puzzles” lead to people simply using guides completely destroying their purpose.

IMO those “puzzles” have a place. But things like the Ember Bay one are just bad. Either you cripple yourself and fail hours and hours just to find the right way or you do it the easy way by looking up a guide.

Revilrad.1962:

But do you really need to add otherwise unobtainable content to the raids (i.e. Legendary Armor) to reward this players? Every other skin/item in the game is obtainable through gold farming.

What? This is actually one of the worse parts of GW2. Because of that sole reason things like Auric Basin Multi Loot is a thing and players will always farm the most efficent content that results in gold (Which is just so boring!). It also means that you can simply buy everything with real money which makes every reward in the game so meaningless.

One thing that I don’t think many know is that if you don’t have to eat many shrooms (closer to the middle usually) it’s actually helpful to eat your shrooms a bit slower (wait like ~1 second before eating it).

The thing is that if you eat the last shroom long before the next subling spawns your room actually becomes smaller at one point and you will have to move the boss quicker.

Of course if your group has no problems and moves fast you can eat quick and deal more DPS because of that.

Seems to be just random. Though sometimes it seems like certain enemies really hate me in fractals as ele (berserker) focusing me for like 90% of the time.

Except for raid bosses who have their own rules.

Obtena.7952:

Neox.3497:

No. Decent groups will complain about people not kicking (similiar to CC) and attacking the wrong enemy. The “DPS meter” tool is capable to show such stats.

Wait what?

A DPS meter (that doesn’t exist in live game) is capable of showing stats on kicking and attacking the wrong enemy? … because DPS meters can differentiate what the ‘correct’ enemy a person is doing DPS on? … or because DPS meters track non-DPS functions?

Let’s not ‘invent’ what a non-existent DPS meter could do to help players, just to justify having one in game.

What? Not sure what your point is but that’s exactly the things you can do with a “damage meter” in WoW. And thats the game the person I responded to was taking as his example. Of course it does not say “Player A is doing something wrong” but instead you can see it by looking at the stats. You can for example set it to to see how much everybody kicked in the fight (in a list/ranking) and even see who they kicked by clicking on their name in that list.

Now techinally they aren’t just a “DPS meter” or “damage meter” but EVERYBODY calls them that because that’s their main function.

Also not sure what you mean with “non-existent”. Looking at the PvP end scoreboard the foundation is already there even in GW2!

Shadowstep.6049:

DPS meters are just as toxic as LI requirements. If you ever played wow and raided there you would know how bad those add-ons are. It is really easy to drop dps – someone goes down -> you go rez them -> you lose dps. Someone gets kicked by trash with bomb into you -> you have to dodge out or go down -> you lose dps. DPS meters in wow caused people to play extremely selfishly because if you don’t pull “meta” numbers you will get kicked, this resulted in people blindly dps or heal and not actually help teammates when needed causing wipes in the end.

Bottom line, if such tool was implemented, even less players would be able to get into raids and raids would become even more toxic than they are already.

No. Decent groups will complain about people not kicking (similiar to CC) and attacking the wrong enemy. The “DPS meter” tool is capable to show such stats.

In case you have have missed it. A DPS meter is not only a ranking with numbers showcasing the DPS of each player. A DPS meter can show you pretty much every stat a fight has. In other games it includes healing done, overhealing, healing received, damage taken, interupts, dispells, deaths, revives, etc. and most of these can be filtered by enemy/spell/atack and other factors.

A GW2 “DPS meter” should additionally have stats like boons applied (for each boon), average boon count (for each boon), cc amount, time reviving, time downed, conditions applied (for each condition), average health and probably a few others that I don’t have in my head right now.

For example if there is someone who never revives. You would easily be able to spot him because his “time reviving” would be at 0 while other DPS palyers might have something at around 6 seconds.

Likewise let’s say someone deals 25% less DPS than another player with the same profession. Oh look, he only has an average might count of 15 while the other player always has 25. Maybe we should take a look at the PS warrior in the group with the low might count? (Same could be done with mesmer boons and druid healing that cripple the DPS of their group)

That’s how you know who slacks and how a group can improve. While there might be misinterpretations, this is a million times better than not even getting into a group because you do no have enough LI’s.

Maybe the leveling you see as “normal” is boring for some? Killing mobs that are easy to kill and pressing F is maybe not something someone wants to do for several hours.

loseridoit.2756:

zealex.9410:

loseridoit.2756:

Nokaru.7831:

You say this is a step backwards, but it feels much better than the old Fractal design of spamming projectile reflects and blind on everything forever.

you know. some of us hated the new fractal.

The way I see it. There are two camps for hard mode in dungeons

overgrowth vs wildstar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaxiKobmAR8

I am in the overgrowth group for ai

stills its more interesting ai than the previous 100 and less eas to control and to be fair even tho in fractals there might not have been huge changes to the ai mobs and bosses have there have been imrovements in the ai in general biggest example is the hot maps as well as the newest map bitterfrost frontier

No. I believe there is little change in the ai. Adding more mechanics do not make a more interesting AI.

So taking Overgrowth as example, how do you want to take those elements into an MMORPG? The main difference is that Overgrowth is about having several tools at hand (different kind of attacks) which you can use to quickly react to your enemies actions which also put you into some kind of disadvantage that the enemy can abuse (this also applies to every fighting game. SSF, Smash Bros etc.).

In GW2 however most actions do not put you into an disadvantage and are generally slow. The closes you can get are jumping and dodging. (Dodging -> can’t change move direction. Jumping -> can’t dodge and movement is limited. Both are instant). Everything else has pretty much no disadvantage for you. The only disadvantage would be that the skill is on cooldown. So what? Should the boss start to shoot projectiles once you used your reflects? Should the boss start to spam conditions once you used your condi cleanse? Should the boss walk out of your AOE after you have casted it? MMOs are way to simple in that regard and the only thing that is complex is actually the movement of the player. And now guess what element the new dungeons heavily use?

Miku.6297:

Neox.3497:

If anyone complains about raids requirements (LI, kill proof, etc.) and is against a DPS meter (+more stats) you should just ignore that person.

Rejecting the solution to a problem they have does not make sense.

Wow, that’s a pretty bold statement and extremely close minded statement. There are multiple sides to this discussion. Ignoring a person that disagrees with you on made up “requirements” and the necessity of a DPS meter does nothing to help talk and figure out a mutually agreeable solution.

Rejecting the solution to a problem someone has does not make sense that is true. However this is not “the” solution. This is “a possible” solution that comes with it’s own set of draw backs.

If they have a better solution sure they can say that. But it seems like they completely ingore that this helps with their problem.

What do you want? Get kicked because of your class/low LIs or because you are actually bad?

I could imagine that this would make raiding more successfull which means less wipes which means less frustration and less toxic players.

There will probably be more kicking but better kick the underperforming players (if they do not improve) than fail over and over and make all 10 players sad.

If anyone complains about raids requirements (LI, kill proof, etc.) and is against a DPS meter (+more stats) you should just ignore that person.

Rejecting the solution to a problem they have does not make sense.

As said. We should at least get a personal DPS meter + stats.

Hannelore.8153:

For over three years we had to put up with mobs that don’t move and could barely cast a single skill if they had any at all, and would generally die easily to a single, undergeared player with almost no build pressing their #1 button.

That is what is unacceptible.

What we have now is just the very beginning of what we should have, challenge. Though the mob AI still has a long way to go, it is better.

If you don’t like it ,don’t play video games.. its what they’re for.

The only real gripe I have is that in Bloodstone Fen it seems like mobs overswarm you and have too much health compared to the other newer maps. But every map seems to have gimmicks like this, such as Auric Basin having too many chargey things, and Tangled Depths being too excessive on the Chak goop.

I think this is kind of how ArenaNet intends it ?

I think the system still kinda falls apart when playing with others. I’m not saying it’s directly a bad thing but everything in the open world is more than twice as easy with 2 players compare to playing alone.

Maybe they should try to make areas designed for multiple players (more and harder mobs) while leaving the main “roads” balanced for solo play.

Shadowstep.6049:

The other day i joined 80-100+LI Sabetha group while i myself have 40 LI (and Eternal), none of the group knew i actually didn’t fit the “requirements”. We one shot the boss, it was clean smooth run, everyone was happy about it and it felt really really good to tell that group that i actually have only 40 LI and that their LI requirement is garbage.

Had similar story with KC where i sneaked in high requirement group – was also a clean run. They took me to Xera as well despite my lolsy 40 LI.

Did you join groups that required 0 LIs and did you one shot the bosses too? If not this only CONFIRMS that LI requirements actually work.

STATISTICALLY speaking players with 100 LIs are more likely to be better than players with 0 LIs. That’s all.

You shouldn’t complain about the difficulty of raids but the lack of balance.

Also no DPS meter or any other stats: “every ele > every engie” and “200 LIs > 0 LIs”

Just a reminder that a new raid could just contain a single wing.

What I think might happen:

A new raid with only one wing (~3 bosses) in ~4 months that will complete the legendary armor collection.

There are also only 6 collection items left in the second collection (which grants the precursor). All 3 wings had excactly 6 collection items each. Just coincidence? Maybe.

READ THIS:

You can insert any agony infusion into any infusion slot (minus amulet). And you can simply make a lot of +9 infusions out of your higher ones for free.

It basically means if you had the usual 3x +10 and 2x +11 you can now exchange them for 14x +9 infusions. And you only need 6x +7 and 12x +9 infusions to get your full 150.

What does that mean? Right you actually don’t have to pay anything for 150 AR and you end up with 2x +9 infusions and a few fractal relics (sell the old simple +7 ones) in your bag.

Xillllix.3485:

You can make hard content without making it frustrating. Guild Wars 2 raids are frustratingly hard because of gimmicks like timers that makes you restart a fight dozens of time until half your party rage-quit. The only outcome for failure to beat a timer should be a smaller reward at the end, the time you take should be an issue preventing you from moving forward, to the contrary.

That’s the reason why the vast majority just aren’t interested. They tried, and it just became frustrating, because even if you’re good, even if you kick kitten at dodging/healing/casting, if you take 5 seconds too much you have to start all over.

If it took you 5 seconds too much I guess you weren’t good enough.

Also if they remove the timer they will have to make a lot of changes so raids won’t end up like a snoozefest similar to fractals.

Rashy.4165:

Ayrilana.1396:

Anet has stated that raids will have themed legendary armor. This was before release during one of their live streams. The insights are pretty generic so there’s no reason to assume that they’re just for this raid only. This particular armor will not be able to obtained outside of this raid due to the raid specific collection.

And it makes sense to continue with that pattern – Precursor from a themed collection, Legendary crafting process kept identical.

And I know there are a lot of naysayers saying “Lol, good luck seeing another raid any time soon”, but I have faith in the raid team that they’ll maintain their release pacing.

I remember they said that raids can vary in size. So they might also add duo or single boss raids.

Astralporing.1957:

Haven’t you noticed, that everyone that does not raid now is either unskilled, or lazy, or both, and should feel bad for it, and “git gud”? I see now that attitude everywhere. Not only in forums.

You only see that when those who do not raid blame the raiding community (or the so called elitist) for their failing with raiding.

Astralporing.1957:

I wouldn’t be so sure about this. Yes, LS3 if it’s any good, will likely lower the amount of negativity against raids. For a while. Because, you see, the main problem with LS is that it isn’t really a repeatable content. And there will be no new dungeons, we already know that.

Also, Anet is definitely capable of doing a high quality content aimed at a general populace. It’s just they haven’t been doing it for a long time. Raids are not the best content game has to offer. They are simply both good and new, while all other good content is now really dated and seems stale in comparison.

So yes. People are jealous. Understandably jealous, because it seems that anet is developing content for a small minority while ignoring the huge majority of their players. And not only ignoring them – making content that reinforces the outlook that said majority became second class citizens, that they are somehow worse for not raiding.
And that last one is a really bad idea.

What you have to remember is that raids are part of the expansion and they worked on them even before the release of the expansion.

Would people also complain if they had released all 3 wings with the expansion besides the 4 new open world maps, the 2 guild halls, the new PvP gamemode/map and the new WvW map?

Also looking at the thousand fixes and tweaks of the open world maps MONTHS after the release you should quickly see that developing those huge meta event map is simply much harder and requires more work.

Now let’s wait for LW3 and see what those ~140 other devs did all the time.

valheru.7891:

eldrin.6471:

valheru.7891:

Why does the opinion of people who already have 150 li not count? Because they already have it? That’s the weakest excuse ever.

for example:

What if an item that i want is 30g in the store. But I don’t have 30 gold. Almost everyone who will post that its a fair amount of gold for that item will probably have 30g to buy the item. So their opinion doesn’t count? So basically they need to reduce the amount fo gold for the item because I who doesn’t have the gold for it thinks it should be lower?

That’s basically what your saying.

Let’s say that you can get 5 li per week. That’s 5 weeks for 1 legendary item. That’s A LOT LESS then what you have to do for the pvp backpiece. if you look at the stats that you get out of that armor. it’s a lot more then a backpiece.

Stop looking at the armor as 1 piece and start looking at it what it is. 6 individual pieces of legendary armor. If you look at the armor as 1 piece. Are you going to look at all the weapons too as 1 piece? Because if I want to run a ranger with axe/torch – sword/dagger. Then I need 4 legendary weapons for just 1 build. So I need a 1000 of every t6 materials for 1 build! do I need just 400g for only the icy rune stones for just 1 build! Do i need around 2000 globs of ectoplams for just 1 build! pls Anet lower the amount of materials so i need to grind less gold in SW or kill less mobs to get my materials needed for 1 build.
(sarcasm for those who don’t see it ;-) )

I did not say the opinion of those with 150 insights shouldn’t count.what i am saying is that some of there opinions look like the only have them because they seek to make it harder than need be for anyone but themselfs to get this armour.The collection is finished after around 20 insights and all bosses killed.the collection proves you have beet the raid.wtf does 150 insights prove?nothing.its like all grind its to extend the life of the content.It dont prove dedication,it might prove you got more free time than some other people.
150 insights needs lower or we need another faster way to get them.the time gate is way over the top.and your comparison of insights to gold is just silly.

No the time gate is completly fine. Most people who have a problem is that is is closed bhind the raid. But that’s not the topic. 30 weeks if you count 5 li per week ( fair amount imo ) is fine for 6 pieces of legendary armor. What does 150 li mean? it means you where there when a boss was killed at least 150 times. what does it mean to have 250 provision tokens? that you have enough money to buy them on the tp and your willing to wp around to give the weapons to someone? Sorry but then i find the meaning of 150 li a 1000 times better then provisioner tokens. what does it mean to have a lot of t6 materials. that your an expert in farming? or your just good at flipping tp. but then again. I find it much better to go for 150 li then 250 of each t6 material. becuase you cannot buy it ( well you can but it will become really expensive if you buy 150 raid boss kils). I like the idea of things that you need to do that you cannot buy because otherwise you can just famr SW and just buy it. what’s the fun in that.

You can also just get your credit card and buy gold with it. Where is there the accomplishment?

About the first point. As they add more and more fractals less fractals will appear twice in one tier. In case they keep this system at the maximun of 25 fractals we will have not a single fractal twice.

blazinfury.8504:

I’m all for that. Forget the tryhard meta that says this is the most effective way. I don’t care about the most effective way, I just want to have fun with it.

Do you also like failing over and over and over again?

Rashy.4165:

150 LI is nothing for people who like raids. They don’t raid for the LI, they raid for fun, for the challenge, whatever.

Raids will continue to exist for a lot longer than you will.

No I just got 150LI and I will NEVER raid again. /j

Singarti.5862:

[…]

My guild, a small Oceanic one that generally consists of players from Australia and NZ, tells me to contact a certain person that is also a part of this guild and who can help me get into raiding. After doing so I am given the following requirements: have full ascended gear and have a correct raid-viable spec for my profession. Stating that I meet of these requirements, I am then asked if I have any raiding experience at all, even from other MMOs, to which I lay out 11 years of raiding in WoW and having cleared the raid content in Wildstar. I am then told by that person “interviewing” me that they have a “similar” raiding experience and that it doesn’t mean anything at all. A second later this person asks if Wildstar is “that other MMO that turned out to be kitten” and I realize that they have absolutely no idea what level of general raiding experience I possess.

Regardless, I ask what should I do next to get into raids in GW2 then and the answer is, quote, “find a pug, fake the experience until you make it”. Using the LFG tools I monitor the LFM raiding tab and advertise myself in the LFG one, but every single person that contacted me or replied to my inquires has asked for this Legendary Insight number, which, to my understanding only shows how many boss kills you have while not indicating the actual bosses that you may have killed. Seeing as I have 0, I am told to kitten off. Literally.

I ask in the guild chat if this is a common type of behavior, to which I get a reply that it is and that is exactly the reason why the majority of the guild does not raid at all. Someone pointed out that my other option is to find something called a training guild and get my raiding experience with them, however at this point I doubt that I will consider raiding in GW2 at all anymore – just get a VG kill to unlock that last mastery track and that’s it. The time zone difference doesn’t make any part of this process any easier however.

Then I come here, to these forums, and see people openly saying that those who are getting into raids just now should feel obliged to the veterans since the vets are the ones who figured out all the strategies and raid comps and that makes it okay for them to act like this. It is as if people have never raided in any MMOs at all and are trying to reinvent the wheel.

TL;DR: The GW2 raiding community in general is extremely toxic towards new potential raiders and does not fit my preferred MMO environment.

I’m sorry but from what I can read your guild is just really silly and sad at the same time.

Seriously, you are a GUILD and you live in a similiar time zone. Instead of creating your own raid group you all go in alone into pubs and lie? Additionally after doing that and having a bad experience you blame the RAIDING community? That’s just so far from the truth.

Also LFR tab =/= raiding community. I can guarantee you that most players who actually raid have a static group or are in a raiding hub that they raid with each week.

Oh and there are always enough other players with the same experience. If you think about it: If the “Less than 10% of the playerbase is actively raiding” is true how comes that the other 90% aren’t able to find each other? Why is it the fault of the 10% that the 90% are not able to do the content? THIS MAKES NO SENSE TO ME.

Please, can anyone enlighten me?

Astralporing.1957:

Manthas.6234:

Walhalla.5473:

As long as we don’t get Things like WoW LFR ( Biggest Mistake of Blizzard in Terms of Raiding ) and as long as Anet is learning from every Encounter they create, I see a good Future for Raiding in GW2. Right now they are just scratching the Surface on what is possible and with more Experience they go deeper and deeper and we get more complicated and unique Bosses.

I’ve read a little about LFR raids in WoW and it doesn’t seem such a bad idea (on paper at least). Could you elaborate why puggable raids that prepares people for higher tiers is such a big mistake?

In many ways they don’t prepare people for higher tiers (besides, in WoW, letting them obtain better gear, which isn’t really necessary in GW2). But the real reason why LFR is often mentioned to be a huge mistake by some raiders? Exclusivity. It opened the WoW raids to average players, instead of keeping them restricted to only a small minority.
Which is apparently a crime.

Contrary to some claims, it didn’t make WoW any less popular, though.

It’s not (only) that. Killing that really hard boss after many attempts and seeing it finally dead and sometimes even getting that awesome cutscene for the first time is a great feeling.

Now with LFR it’s simply not the same anymore since you already experienced it but without the investement and it simply becomes less epic, less personal and less special.

Also LFR gives you the chance at good loot that helps you progress through the normal raid so simply skipping LFR isn’t an option most of the time.

Dinosaurs.8674:

When most people started raiding legendary armor was so far off that no one thought about it. If there had never been legendary armor I don’t think the number of raiders would be much less. Lots of raiders aren’t even going to get the legendary armor, at least for a long time. It’s a sizable gold investment, especially if the skin isn’t very good, and it’s almost identical to an ascended set unless it has some good utility with runes. I actually think it’s funny how much some people think that legendary armor is all that people want with raids, because it’s really just a raid skin that costs 4k+ gold.

On a related note, I’m really wondering how many players out there would actually make the armor sooner if the insight count were lowered, versus those that would still have to wait a long kitten time to farm all the gold. I think the insight count is probably too high just because the rest of the collection takes so much less time, but realistically the gold cost is probably just a difficult/grindy for a lot of people.

I just calculated it and kitten it IS a lot. I should get 150 LI the next week and I’m not sure if I even want to spend that much gold just for materials. The LI seem like nothing compared to that.

Unless of course you do it like some other players and just convert gems to gold. But with that what does a legendary mean? Wow you just bought this legendary for $$$. Grats what an accomplishment.

With the amount of LI you need you know at least that the owner actually PLAYED the game to get the legendary armor.

Harddrive.2738:

You want a skill based collection for legendary armor/items, isn’t that nice. You should go make a thread about that.

People are only for keeping it at 150 LI because they have some silly disillusion that its the only way to justify the title of “legendary”.

Anyone not in that category is either a troll, full sour apples, or as someone pointed out in it for the money.

Everyone wins (or at worst shouldn’t care) by lowering the cost or making the drop rate of LI increase. You’ll have more LI then everyone else to buy other stuff in the future or they will sit around and do nothing, something thats going to happen either way.

P.S Its unlikely we will get another raid wing for some time now, probably with the next expansion at earliest.

How about they reduce the amount of mats you need? Everone wins by loweing the cost or making the drop rate of MATERIALS increase.

Decaying Seart.6793:

I figure I do have to join a raid guild.(not happy with the 100% rep though). Pugs just keep wasting my passion and time
End of the story. Sry for the dense atmosphere.

I have never heard of a RAIDING guild requiring 100% rep. I was in about ~6 raiding guilds/hubs and none of them required me to rep them. (I’m now in 3 for several months of which one I haven’t even raided with for a long time)

If they lower the LI requirement please also lower the mat costs. I don’t want to farm boring open world content just to get the mats and gold for it.

There is actually no reason against something like this as long as it’s stuff thats already in the gem store.

See it like a cheaper but time limited alternative to just simply buying that stuff from the gem store.

You can’t use any consumables besides food in raids. Also I think it’s more a design fault that character specific uitility skills and/or consumables are so usefull in dungeons/fractals.

Oh and PvE and PvP balance are already really bad.

LegACy.1296:

87 LI here (which means I’ve killed raid boss 87 times), I never got picked from the LFG tab either. It’s because most groups never pick people from the LFG tab, they instead posted an entry on the LFM mentioning the profession they want. So yeah, just keep your eye on the LFM tab for a run that suits you

I also noticed that. Either camp the LFM tab or better find a guild. If you are decent you will also find a decent guild.

I’m pretty sure they will release a new map with every LS episode that’s something between the size of SW and the new HoT maps. Everything else would be really sad IMO.

STIHL.2489:

Neox.3497:

Why sould HARDER content give you the same reward as easier content?

By this logic the best rewards should be exclusive to PvP, is that what you want?

1. Winning in PvP is not always challenging
2. There is a legendary backpiece
3. There are REAL LIFE CASH PRICES for the top players
4. If PvP rewards were too high the chances of manipulation and abusing would increase. (Ever heard of “I pay you XXg if you let us win”?)

Btw, I agree that the PvP rewards could be increased a bit. I never said that anets reward scaling is perfect. You just have to look at SW to know anet does not always know how to balance rewards.

However raid rewards are somewhat balanced. Some might say it’s even too low.

STIHL.2489:

Aceofsppades.6873:

STIHL.2489:

Neox.3497:

STIHL.2489:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Bysvyken.6235:

I really don’t understand all this talk of minorities.
Being capable of raiding isn’t some minority you’re born into like race/ethnicity, it’s simply researching and participating in something. The only ones stopping you from becoming part of this “minority” are yourselves.

Demographics in gaming communities — at least the ones being talked about in discussions like this one — are based around preferences. For instance, I’m in a demographic that prefers not to raid but doesn’t worry about exclusive rewards being in that content. Yes, that group exists. It might well be the real “majority” regarding this issue. My reason to not raid is that I promised myself back during WoW I would not get sucked into the raiding time sink again. While it looks like the time commitment for GW2 raids is lower, it’s still higher than I care to commit to.

Bysvyken.6235:

How far do we stretch this logic?
I’m no good at PvP, you have to let me get the PvP legendary backpiece by participating in hot-join.
I’m no good at high level fractals, you have to let me get the legendary backpiece by participating in fractals 1-10.

Back when the game launched, there was some thought that most rewards would be obtained via Karma as a sort of universal currency. Even then, though, making L. weapons required doing at least one dungeon and real WvW (pre EotM or achievement chests with Badges). Also, dungeon skins were only available for use in PvE by doing that dungeon. So, there were unique rewards tied to specific content even then.

A funny thing’s happened since. ANet learned that: (a) a lot of players would not repeat content without reward; and (b) that players would seek the path of least resistance to obtain the universal currency, ignoring any other content. This led to the idea that players could be enticed to do specific content by including rewards they can’t get elsewhere — whether this is a matter of degree (rares via world bosses) or exclusivity (Glorious Armor). Karma was incorporated as a component into a few collection rewards, but was otherwise largely abandoned.

Now, virtually every new thing the devs throw out for players to do has an exclusive reward attached to it. What we’re seeing in threads like this one is the reaction from players who still have attachments to the idea behind that universal currency and what it meant to them — even though ANet pretty much abandoned universal access regardless of preference long ago.

Not really, all the “exclusive” stuff was purely cosmetic skins, right up to LS2, with Luminescent being rare for pity’s sake, but exclusive cosmetics, have been in the game since day one.

The real problem here, is that shoehorned the entire game into Raids being the “end game”, as they give the best access to the higher rewards then any other game mode.

Prior to that, players could pick what they wanted their end game to be and still get around same overall loot value, now, Anet set it as ‘raids’ as their game. And while it’s their game, they can do whatever they want, for the people that don’t want to bother with doing raids, to be stuck forever playing the ‘Bert Bell Benefit Bowl’ if you will.

It’s pretty clear that’s going over as well as a fart in a church.

Now, what is done can’t really be undone, so now they are faced with the issue of making other content that offers an equal abundance of ‘end game’ rewards as well as a feeling of pride, that players can do in alternative to raids.

LS3, will not fit the bill.

How are legendary weapons and legendary backpieces any different? You have to do open world completion, you have to do a certain dungeon, you have to do PvP, you have to do high level fractals.

You can’t get legendary weapons nor a legendary backpiece with raiding. Why is armor suddenly different?

You’re thinking too much about the Legendary Armor. While that will be an issue, no doubt, that will only affect the people what enjoy Legendary Journeys, and don’t enjoy the Raid. Yes, that group will become alienated, and is it’s own subset, and there is a good chance that they also will be driven from the game. An Unfortunate loss, perhaps, they are not the group I am talking about.

My main issue it’s the ability to Buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with Raid Tokens, (AKA: Magnetite Shard), thus bypassing all RNG and Crafting Grind.

That is what makes Raids the ‘End Game’ content, because you can’t buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with any other currency.

Now if they put in a vendor where players could buy Ascended Armor/Weapons from Fractals (Which would make sense) and change it so that The Glorious and Triumphant Armor from the WvW/sPvP Reward Tracks was Ascended as opposed to Exotic, that would equalize the game quite a bit.

But right now, Raids give players the ability to simply buy Ascended Armor/Weapon, for less gold then it costs to make an Insignia.

So basically you don’t want people that do content you don’t like to be rewarded with ascended armor?

No, I want to be rewarded as well for doing other content that I do enjoy, I don’t see why that is so hard to understand.

Why sould HARDER content give you the same reward as easier content?

It’s like saying “I like killing enviromental NPCs and I want to get the same reward as people doing fractals!” or “Why do tier 4 fractals give you better rewards compared to tier 1 fractal?” or “Why do you get better rewards for reaching Legendary compared to reaching Emerald?” or “Why do you get better rewards for winning in PvP?” or “Why do you get better rewards for killing players in WvW?” or “Why do you get better rewards for doing dungeons quicker compared to doing the slower?”

The reason for all this is: “The harder the thing you do = The better the loot you get”.
The current rewards for raids are “ok” for the difficulty. Just accept it.

Hunter.4783:

Phil.8901:

This is nothing, wait for “wear Your full legendary armor or kick”

Soon

I guess you have never joined one of those “experienced only” full SV clears in the weekend where the group can’t make it past p3 VG.

Elitism is an unfortunate side effect when you make endgame accessible to everyone, even those who still have no grasp of core game mechanics

This is probably the main problem.

Also think about it: If this “only <5% of all players activley raid” is true wouldn’t that mean that at least 95% of all players won’t have legendary armor?

Now can anyone tell me why anyone would have a problem if they can’t play with the 5%? I mean 95%!!! of the playerbase would be in the same boat with you and you could simply play with them!

STIHL.2489:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Bysvyken.6235:

I really don’t understand all this talk of minorities.
Being capable of raiding isn’t some minority you’re born into like race/ethnicity, it’s simply researching and participating in something. The only ones stopping you from becoming part of this “minority” are yourselves.

Demographics in gaming communities — at least the ones being talked about in discussions like this one — are based around preferences. For instance, I’m in a demographic that prefers not to raid but doesn’t worry about exclusive rewards being in that content. Yes, that group exists. It might well be the real “majority” regarding this issue. My reason to not raid is that I promised myself back during WoW I would not get sucked into the raiding time sink again. While it looks like the time commitment for GW2 raids is lower, it’s still higher than I care to commit to.

Bysvyken.6235:

How far do we stretch this logic?
I’m no good at PvP, you have to let me get the PvP legendary backpiece by participating in hot-join.
I’m no good at high level fractals, you have to let me get the legendary backpiece by participating in fractals 1-10.

Back when the game launched, there was some thought that most rewards would be obtained via Karma as a sort of universal currency. Even then, though, making L. weapons required doing at least one dungeon and real WvW (pre EotM or achievement chests with Badges). Also, dungeon skins were only available for use in PvE by doing that dungeon. So, there were unique rewards tied to specific content even then.

A funny thing’s happened since. ANet learned that: (a) a lot of players would not repeat content without reward; and (b) that players would seek the path of least resistance to obtain the universal currency, ignoring any other content. This led to the idea that players could be enticed to do specific content by including rewards they can’t get elsewhere — whether this is a matter of degree (rares via world bosses) or exclusivity (Glorious Armor). Karma was incorporated as a component into a few collection rewards, but was otherwise largely abandoned.

Now, virtually every new thing the devs throw out for players to do has an exclusive reward attached to it. What we’re seeing in threads like this one is the reaction from players who still have attachments to the idea behind that universal currency and what it meant to them — even though ANet pretty much abandoned universal access regardless of preference long ago.

Not really, all the “exclusive” stuff was purely cosmetic skins, right up to LS2, with Luminescent being rare for pity’s sake, but exclusive cosmetics, have been in the game since day one.

The real problem here, is that shoehorned the entire game into Raids being the “end game”, as they give the best access to the higher rewards then any other game mode.

Prior to that, players could pick what they wanted their end game to be and still get around same overall loot value, now, Anet set it as ‘raids’ as their game. And while it’s their game, they can do whatever they want, for the people that don’t want to bother with doing raids, to be stuck forever playing the ‘Bert Bell Benefit Bowl’ if you will.

It’s pretty clear that’s going over as well as a fart in a church.

Now, what is done can’t really be undone, so now they are faced with the issue of making other content that offers an equal abundance of ‘end game’ rewards as well as a feeling of pride, that players can do in alternative to raids.

LS3, will not fit the bill.

How are legendary weapons and legendary backpieces any different? You have to do open world completion, you have to do a certain dungeon, you have to do PvP, you have to do high level fractals.

You can’t get legendary weapons nor a legendary backpiece with raiding. Why is armor suddenly different?

You can use your own build as long as you are able to provide the necessary DPS and utility. However since there is no DPS meter the only way to do that is to go into the training raid and show it to your group. That usually takes too much time in PUGS but you can ask the guilds you try to join if you can show them your DPS and explain them why it’s ok.

Also the only reason you could play what ever build you wanted is the same reason why you could play without any traits and utility skills because using the “1” skill on your main hand was enough for most of the content and other players were able to carry you.

Dimitris.3195:

Neox.3497:

Ohoni.6057:

It is a good thing that Raids exist in this game, it adds to the variety and now that fractals are getting certain attention and dungeons have improved as well as a game feature it is one of the best time for PvE players.

You mean instanced content players. For players that enjoy open world content the only new things added over the past six months have been the Leyline events, Bandit bounties, and Legendary moneypits, most of that over the last couple months.

Also the amount of story in the 3 wings are like 3 of the 16 HoT story missions and the 3 wing maps together are like 1/3 of a single HoT map. So the 3 wings are basically only ~15% of the HoT open world maps in terms of content.

And it’s also better than the whole of the HoT story! That is the point, not that its’ quantity is big but that its’ quality is superb and not everyone can experience it.

And guess what! Maybe it IS because of the difficulty that makes them so high quality. The story >telling< of the raid is not that good IMO. You go in and fight some weird creatures and… well BANDITS. And you only get most of the story by reading the letters lying around.

I think if you could kill the bosses by just pressing 1 there would be no difference between raids and the HoT personal story or the open world events.

It’s not the story or the enviroment that raiders praise it’s mostly the combat and the difficulty that make raids that good.

Ohoni.6057:

It is a good thing that Raids exist in this game, it adds to the variety and now that fractals are getting certain attention and dungeons have improved as well as a game feature it is one of the best time for PvE players.

You mean instanced content players. For players that enjoy open world content the only new things added over the past six months have been the Leyline events, Bandit bounties, and Legendary moneypits, most of that over the last couple months.

You got 4 big new open world PvE maps in the last 7 months. And you will probably get some new ones this summer.

I mean would you have been happier if they waited 2 months before release a new map? Or if all 3 raid wings were released with HoT?

Your problem isn’t the content but the way they release the content.

Also the amount of story in the 3 wings are like 3 of the 16 HoT story missions and the 3 wing maps together are like 1/3 of a single HoT map. So the 3 wings are basically only ~15% of the HoT open world maps in terms of content.

Elrey.5472:

The Zealous Templar.3861:

Yep, keep it up Anet! Raids have definitely invigorated my Guild Wars 2 experience and I have never enjoyed something as much in the game!

So much this. I’ve never played GW2 as much as I do now in raids.

For those that fear that you need a closed roster or to dedicate X time per day to be in a raid group, you don’t.

My guild is consistently completing both wings with no dedicated team. We’re just a bunch of 35 multi-class players that join random guild runs on-the-fly and have some fun while doing it.

Not to mentions that the more experience your group has the faster the boss kills become.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

I actually wish they’d kill off PS and many other of the passive boon-generations, but the game went down that line for way too long and too far for this to happen. Also, they’d have to reduce the amount of combo-fields (why are things such as overload air even fields…) and increase the amount of finishers, maybe making it so that your own fields always have the highest priority when using a combo finisher (so that only you can kitten it up for yourself and not someone else)

But yeah if it was just PS that’d be gone, revs and eles would stack and share along with chronos. Maybe throw a wild blast into a fire field from other classes into the mix here and there, should be option arise.

IMO they should re-balance a lot of things. But the main problem would be PvP and WvW getting unbalanced by it (just split it already!).

Now what I mean is I would like to see more ups and downs for taking certain traits and builds.

For example as a warrior you sould be able to 1. go full on might or 2. full on personal DPS (with DECENT dps compared to the others) while negleting might COMPLETELY or 3. a mix of both.

The same with Guardian “healing”, “pure dps” or “hybrid” and mesmer “support(alacrity,quickness)” or “pure dps”, or “hybrid” and let others professions fulfill the same “role” in a similiar scale. All while (MOST IMPORTANT) keeping everything balanced.

And yeah there we have it “roles”. Roles are NOT a bad thing, you just have to make them diversive, accessible and (I repeat!!) balanced. We have roles right now and we had them all the time. They just weren’t required most of the time and were never really balanced. Also the content was simply so easy that you could be 20% effective in a role and still complete the content.

GW2 has more roles than just DPS, tank and healer. Some can be done as a group (e.g.: dps, might, reflects), a few can be done just by one profession (e.g.: alacrity/quickness) and a lot are just unbalanced (e.g.: healing, dps, might).

In conclusion: I just hope anet is going to split PvE, PvP and WvW balance at some point so they are able to balance the professions and their “roles” much better.

Just a reminder that you got 4 big open world maps in the last ~7-8 months. That’s like 1 new big open world map every 2 months. And more open world maps are probably on the way with LS3 too.

So yeah not sure why you complain.

thewaterguy.4796:

The Zealous Templar.3861:

Many non-raiders attitudes on the forums:

A bakery has my favourite cake in stock today. I buy it, eat it and am happy.

The bakery does not have your favourite cake in stock today. They will be in stock tomorrow. You are unhappy.

You tell the baker that they should stop making my favourite cakes and ONLY make your favourite cakes in an attempt to never make it go out of stock again. I disagree with you.

Is it not worse to nullify some people’s enjoyment to ensure that other people don’t have to wait a little while for their enjoyment? I think so, and am disgusted by the people advocating it, I’m glad Anet ignore them and are already working on a new raid.

Uh-huh, yeah except its not a “day” its like, 6 months, and ignoring that fact, nobody that is sane is saying that “arena-net should abandon raiding completely” what people are, justifiably, asking is, "wait a minute, so this “tiny” raid team can crank out this complex well designed content at a consistent rate, but the “bigger” Living World and general PvE team is having its segments abandoned and cancelled (Hello Dungeons and Legendary Weapons) and we still have no news regarding LS3" Yeah seeing the problem yet?

Well they worked on raids prior to the HoT release. So the “bigger” PvE team made 4 huge PvE maps + what is done of LS3 (currently unknown, could be multiple maps) in the time the small raid team finished the 3 wings.

Like it or not but you got quite a lot of PvE (open world) content with HoT. But making those huge maps with all these events and meta events probably takes more time than 3 “little” raid wings. Heck the second wing has no events between the bosses, it’s just clean the path to the boss (which I actually like).

Also I think the reason why raids seem to be “more content” is probably because you can’t just kill them by pressing 1 in a short time. Imagine the bosses had 30% of the HP they have, deal only 30% of their damage and have no one hit skills. Player would probably rush through the content and be bored by it after a few times. But because of the more challenging nature of the content you will need more time and even after doing the boss several times you still can fail/improve.

Just think about it, we only had “6 bosses” so far in raids. How many bosses are on VB alone?