Guild Wars 2

10 second cooldown is probably for testing purposes.

Still though, what the actual kitten ArenaNet? Stop breaking Guild Wars 2 combat!! This is only interesting ON PAPER, in practice you can achieve some seriously unfair bull crap.

eldenbri.1059:

First, thanks very much to Anet, the shoutcasters, and the players. I enjoyed watching.

Second, these matches are much more fun to watch than the bunker matches early in the season.

Third, I really hope that the fundamental pvp game is not changed. It’s currently my favorite part of the game. I like the complexity and the pace. As an average pvp player, I feel like I can learn and get better for a long time in this game mode.

I think there might be some good parallels in thinking about how football (American rules) is televised to try to see how presenting GW2 pvp might work better for fans.

First of all, most football fans can’t tell you most of what’s happening on the field. In a given play, there are dozens of variables and there is action all over the field. As you learn more about the sport, you can recognize offensive and defensive formations and plays. And even though you can basically have a good chance of following the most important action by just watching the ball, you need replays and multiple camera angles to make sense of it. And what makes football so awesome as a TV viewer is that there is time in between plays where they can show you more detail on what really happened (and you can argue with a friend on whether it really was pass interference)

GW2 PVP doesn’t have basically any gaps. As a shoutcaster, it must be insanely difficult to pick the most entertaining and meaningful conflict to cover and be able to explain it clearly. As I listen, really the only things I can follow are who is being focused on, whether their health is low, and whether they have any heals/utilities on cooldown that might help them survive. The shoutcasters seem to do a pretty reasonable job of predicting if someone is going to to into downstate and whether they are likely to get rezzed.

So what can realistically be done to make this work better for the viewer?

First, I think a little more can be done before and after the match. Before the gates open and the splits happen, someone could do some starting analysis to say what players are likely to go to what spots, why they would go there, and what kinds of early battles might happen to shape the way the game will go. After the match, it’s probably hard to do this quickly, but it would be cool to get a “match moment” video recap. This is like the replay in football. The analysts play back a meaningful fight in the match and they outline the moves that made it turn out that way. Could this be done at a detailed level in a reasonable amount of time? I’m not sure. It would be cool to get this even if it was only available as video days later.

Second, I wonder if there might be a relatively small amount of UI work to create a view that makes it a little easier to consume. One possibility is to pull the minimap, the kills summary, and any advertising over to a column on one side of the screen. Maybe this mini-map could be tweaked slightly to indicate percent capped on each point (so viewer could actually see the points getting capped or decapped from this mini-map). Possibly, you could add in a “big hits” indicator in this area as well that might show skills that had a huge impact (just name of the character, the skill and the output). I’m not sure how practical this all is both in terms of effort and in terms of making it easier for the viewer.

The reality is the things that make this game mode and GW2 combat fun for a lot of people also make it difficult to describe or to follow in realtime.

You are speaking for the minority.

A lot of the player base already quit PvP due to the power creep, pathetically bad balance and sheer reduction of skill based combat.

suffish.4150:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Nova Stiker.8396:

suffish.4150:

Nova Stiker.8396:

suffish.4150:

I have no idea how you think it wasn’t great to watch. There were so many kills, there were actually some comebacks (including one absolutely incredible one that even if all other games were awful it would have made the finals worth watching), and there were close matches. I also loved seeing the search and rescue play in the second semi final(I really don’t want it nerfed now just because of how awesome it was to watch in the pro league even though I did before). I will admit that the first semi final could have been more exciting and close but the other 2 matches were awesome to watch. Maybe people say they don’t like it because they simply don’t like the concept of gw2 e-sports but as someone who does really like watching the e-sport events that are held, the finals were amazing and I quite literally can’t wait for season 2 which will use the same meta.

Question for you, what happened to that caused the come back?

The one on temple? Vermilion got a load of kills on abjured players and managed to decap all their points so with about 1 minute left it was 1 cap to 0 in favour of vermilion and they also got tranquility and held a 3 cap for the rest of the game to win 500-477.
In total it was about a 200 point comeback.

This is exactly what I mean, you have no idea what exactly caused the come back.

What skills did they use during that key moment? How much was the damage? How much was the sustain? Was it good positioning? Was it bad positioning? What mistakes were made?

Dumbest post NA!! Like was it supposed to know it after one watch? ? Get you asinine logic out of here. Like who has that great of attention span to know who what went wrong.

And I also agree with the OP the finals were awesome.

“It was awesome! I don’t even know what happened! Literally, I had no idea what was going on, some people where hit by something, some died, some didn’t die.”
~ Fivedawgs.4267

You see why so many people treat Guild Wars 2 Esport as a joke?

I can watch League of Legends or even Super Smash Brothers and can tell you what is skills and strategies are being used. Guild Wars 2 PvP is reduced to a spam-fest with 3-4 traits proc’ing every 10 seconds.

Who said I didn’t know what happen?? Abjured sent way too many people to tranquility and couldn’t keep their home point .. that’s what cost them the game. Wait, how long/often have you being playing smh bro and lol?? Anyone who has, at least, being playing gw2 for a year or two would have no problem knowing which skills were used etc… And also Lol esport camera doesn’t show which skills are being use, so I don’t know what you are getting that. And here are my suggestion to you: learn the game and learn the classes.

Learn the game, coming from a Ruby player? HAHAHAHA! Get on my level. You can get to legendary by grinding matches on a Dragonhunter, yet, you’re in Ruby?

Also, who went to tranq? How did they lose tranq? You don’t even know.

After re-watching that game, I found that it was very easy to see who did what at the end which led to that comeback so there was no issue there:
Snowball got the decap at the altar to hold the abjured to 477 points and at tranquility alkore and kervv got the kill onto phantaram and then nos went down and chaith tried to res him up but didn’t manage it. I think phantaram also got back down to tranq from the respawn and he was in a 2v1 for a while and after he went down alkore started getting the buff and chaith, by the looks of the minimap got EXTREMELY close to interrupting alkore but he didn’t quite get there in time and nothing really changed after that other than nos dying at mid. I could name individual skills if I was looking for as much detail as I could, but there was really no problem with me seeing what happened at the end of that game there.

You had to rewatch it to even understand who went where, let alone any key skills that were used.

My point stands, it’s a mindless, spam-fest that doesn’t properly punish mistakes, doesn’t have a risk/reward, only reward. Any risk is never worth the reward now.

Guild War 2 combat has gone down the drain, I can barely log in to finish dailies let alone actually play the game. It’s just boring now. I get more enjoyment playing League of Legends now, at least that game it feels like every move I do matters and making mistakes is very clear. I don’t even like League of Legends much! I much prefer Dark Souls, Bayonetta, Monster Hunter. All with more refined, skill-based combat.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Nova Stiker.8396:

suffish.4150:

Nova Stiker.8396:

suffish.4150:

I have no idea how you think it wasn’t great to watch. There were so many kills, there were actually some comebacks (including one absolutely incredible one that even if all other games were awful it would have made the finals worth watching), and there were close matches. I also loved seeing the search and rescue play in the second semi final(I really don’t want it nerfed now just because of how awesome it was to watch in the pro league even though I did before). I will admit that the first semi final could have been more exciting and close but the other 2 matches were awesome to watch. Maybe people say they don’t like it because they simply don’t like the concept of gw2 e-sports but as someone who does really like watching the e-sport events that are held, the finals were amazing and I quite literally can’t wait for season 2 which will use the same meta.

Question for you, what happened to that caused the come back?

The one on temple? Vermilion got a load of kills on abjured players and managed to decap all their points so with about 1 minute left it was 1 cap to 0 in favour of vermilion and they also got tranquility and held a 3 cap for the rest of the game to win 500-477.
In total it was about a 200 point comeback.

This is exactly what I mean, you have no idea what exactly caused the come back.

What skills did they use during that key moment? How much was the damage? How much was the sustain? Was it good positioning? Was it bad positioning? What mistakes were made?

Dumbest post NA!! Like was it supposed to know it after one watch? ? Get you asinine logic out of here. Like who has that great of attention span to know who what went wrong.

And I also agree with the OP the finals were awesome.

“It was awesome! I don’t even know what happened! Literally, I had no idea what was going on, some people where hit by something, some died, some didn’t die.”
~ Fivedawgs.4267

You see why so many people treat Guild Wars 2 Esport as a joke?

I can watch League of Legends or even Super Smash Brothers and can tell you what is skills and strategies are being used. Guild Wars 2 PvP is reduced to a spam-fest with 3-4 traits proc’ing every 10 seconds.

Who said I didn’t know what happen?? Abjured sent way too many people to tranquility and couldn’t keep their home point .. that’s what cost them the game. Wait, how long/often have you being playing smh bro and lol?? Anyone who has, at least, being playing gw2 for a year or two would have no problem knowing which skills were used etc… And also Lol esport camera doesn’t show which skills are being use, so I don’t know what you are getting that. And here are my suggestion to you: learn the game and learn the classes.

Learn the game, coming from a Ruby player? HAHAHAHA! Get on my level. You can get to legendary by grinding matches on a Dragonhunter, yet, you’re in Ruby?

Also, who went to tranq? How did they lose tranq? You don’t even know.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Nova Stiker.8396:

suffish.4150:

Nova Stiker.8396:

suffish.4150:

I have no idea how you think it wasn’t great to watch. There were so many kills, there were actually some comebacks (including one absolutely incredible one that even if all other games were awful it would have made the finals worth watching), and there were close matches. I also loved seeing the search and rescue play in the second semi final(I really don’t want it nerfed now just because of how awesome it was to watch in the pro league even though I did before). I will admit that the first semi final could have been more exciting and close but the other 2 matches were awesome to watch. Maybe people say they don’t like it because they simply don’t like the concept of gw2 e-sports but as someone who does really like watching the e-sport events that are held, the finals were amazing and I quite literally can’t wait for season 2 which will use the same meta.

Question for you, what happened to that caused the come back?

The one on temple? Vermilion got a load of kills on abjured players and managed to decap all their points so with about 1 minute left it was 1 cap to 0 in favour of vermilion and they also got tranquility and held a 3 cap for the rest of the game to win 500-477.
In total it was about a 200 point comeback.

This is exactly what I mean, you have no idea what exactly caused the come back.

What skills did they use during that key moment? How much was the damage? How much was the sustain? Was it good positioning? Was it bad positioning? What mistakes were made?

Dumbest post NA!! Like was it supposed to know it after one watch? ? Get you asinine logic out of here. Like who has that great of attention span to know who what went wrong.

And I also agree with the OP the finals were awesome.

“It was awesome! I don’t even know what happened! Literally, I had no idea what was going on, some people where hit by something, some died, some didn’t die.”
~ Fivedawgs.4267

You see why so many people treat Guild Wars 2 Esport as a joke?

I can watch League of Legends or even Super Smash Brothers and can tell you what is skills and strategies are being used. Guild Wars 2 PvP is reduced to a spam-fest with 3-4 traits proc’ing every 10 seconds.

Ithilwen.1529:

Those “explanations” were excuses for using a gimmick to farm pvp. I’ll mention here that anet gave me 5 separate demerits on the same post for daring to disagree with Chaith.

This game is customized for the pro league players and they get special priveleges. That’s a sure way to create an inbalance and ultimately, to fail.

Pfffft, you think Toker liked giving up his thief to play Revenant? Or how Nos was forced to play bunker Mesmer?

I liked playing thief as well as my ele, but Revenant is just easier and significantly more forgiving.

Here is what is going on: Whoever is in charge of combat design, IS BAD.

There is nothing more to it.

I’ve stopped caring about balancing classes or suggestions on how to improve PvP and spend most of my time here bashing ArenaNet’s massive decline at combat design.

Kuya.6495:

Nova Stiker.8396:

suffish.4150:

Nova Stiker.8396:

suffish.4150:

I have no idea how you think it wasn’t great to watch. There were so many kills, there were actually some comebacks (including one absolutely incredible one that even if all other games were awful it would have made the finals worth watching), and there were close matches. I also loved seeing the search and rescue play in the second semi final(I really don’t want it nerfed now just because of how awesome it was to watch in the pro league even though I did before). I will admit that the first semi final could have been more exciting and close but the other 2 matches were awesome to watch. Maybe people say they don’t like it because they simply don’t like the concept of gw2 e-sports but as someone who does really like watching the e-sport events that are held, the finals were amazing and I quite literally can’t wait for season 2 which will use the same meta.

Question for you, what happened to that caused the come back?

The one on temple? Vermilion got a load of kills on abjured players and managed to decap all their points so with about 1 minute left it was 1 cap to 0 in favour of vermilion and they also got tranquility and held a 3 cap for the rest of the game to win 500-477.
In total it was about a 200 point comeback.

This is exactly what I mean, you have no idea what exactly caused the come back.

What skills did they use during that key moment? How much was the damage? How much was the sustain? Was it good positioning? Was it bad positioning? What mistakes were made?

The comeback largely came i believe, from alkor managing to keep chaith away from tranquility and the rest of vermillion being able to kill the rest of abjured on al other points, forcing them to regroup at tranq while the rest of verm got caps off, and then reinforced alkor at tranq.

Abjured realized that alkor’s search and rescue could easily turn a match, so they started bursting him down at every opportunity rendering him useless, but when it came to temple, abjured was too busy with caps and secondary objectives to keep alkor supressed.

What key skills were used that turned the tide? Which player made a mistake that made the come back happen?

A decent idea pitched to developers filled with bad ideas.

You don’t need a large community to help, Guild Wars 2 PvP is not as big and complex like League of Legends. The problem is you got a bad combat design team, nothing more to it. It’s not cooperate direction, it’s not the lack of help, it’s not a mechanical issue. Just unskilled combat developers making unskilled combat.

I couldn’t help but laugh at the unbelievably forced dialog of the ESL players saying how great combat is now in the intro videos. I think Toker was cringing as he said those words.

suffish.4150:

Nova Stiker.8396:

suffish.4150:

Nova Stiker.8396:

suffish.4150:

I have no idea how you think it wasn’t great to watch. There were so many kills, there were actually some comebacks (including one absolutely incredible one that even if all other games were awful it would have made the finals worth watching), and there were close matches. I also loved seeing the search and rescue play in the second semi final(I really don’t want it nerfed now just because of how awesome it was to watch in the pro league even though I did before). I will admit that the first semi final could have been more exciting and close but the other 2 matches were awesome to watch. Maybe people say they don’t like it because they simply don’t like the concept of gw2 e-sports but as someone who does really like watching the e-sport events that are held, the finals were amazing and I quite literally can’t wait for season 2 which will use the same meta.

Question for you, what happened to that caused the come back?

The one on temple? Vermilion got a load of kills on abjured players and managed to decap all their points so with about 1 minute left it was 1 cap to 0 in favour of vermilion and they also got tranquility and held a 3 cap for the rest of the game to win 500-477.
In total it was about a 200 point comeback.

This is exactly what I mean, you have no idea what exactly caused the come back.

What skills did they use during that key moment? How much was the damage? How much was the sustain? Was it good positioning? Was it bad positioning? What mistakes were made?

To be honest I don’t really care about key skills used at key moments, what matters is the kill, it does not matter how it is done. It is, in my opinion, nothing to get excited about or even for the commentators to mention if one player takes another to 50% with one skill because which skills that were used do not matter, it is the result of those skills that does. As for the good or bad positioning, you can tell where players are going by looking at the minimap at the corner of the screen, which I often do while watching. To be honest if you want to see which skills were used you can just pay attention to the fight that is being shown on screen and watch how each individual player plays in that fight.
Really though, you are right that I don’t know which skills were timed to perfection and turned the game around but I don’t really care about that, what I cared about in that game was the kills to decap the points and the taking of tranquility. How it was done does not really matter in my opinion.

You care about the kill? A shame, I feel like I can wave a bunch of big numbers in front of you and you’d be entertained.

I care about the skill. The thing that actually matters in combat.

Which Guild Wars 2 PvP is lacking entirely. Skill based combat, there is no longer proper punishment for mistakes, there is no longer a risk/reward anymore, only reward and any risk is just punished.

suffish.4150:

Nova Stiker.8396:

suffish.4150:

I have no idea how you think it wasn’t great to watch. There were so many kills, there were actually some comebacks (including one absolutely incredible one that even if all other games were awful it would have made the finals worth watching), and there were close matches. I also loved seeing the search and rescue play in the second semi final(I really don’t want it nerfed now just because of how awesome it was to watch in the pro league even though I did before). I will admit that the first semi final could have been more exciting and close but the other 2 matches were awesome to watch. Maybe people say they don’t like it because they simply don’t like the concept of gw2 e-sports but as someone who does really like watching the e-sport events that are held, the finals were amazing and I quite literally can’t wait for season 2 which will use the same meta.

Question for you, what happened to that caused the come back?

The one on temple? Vermilion got a load of kills on abjured players and managed to decap all their points so with about 1 minute left it was 1 cap to 0 in favour of vermilion and they also got tranquility and held a 3 cap for the rest of the game to win 500-477.
In total it was about a 200 point comeback.

This is exactly what I mean, you have no idea what exactly caused the come back.

What skills did they use during that key moment? How much was the damage? How much was the sustain? Was it good positioning? Was it bad positioning? What mistakes were made?

suffish.4150:

I have no idea how you think it wasn’t great to watch. There were so many kills, there were actually some comebacks (including one absolutely incredible one that even if all other games were awful it would have made the finals worth watching), and there were close matches. I also loved seeing the search and rescue play in the second semi final(I really don’t want it nerfed now just because of how awesome it was to watch in the pro league even though I did before). I will admit that the first semi final could have been more exciting and close but the other 2 matches were awesome to watch. Maybe people say they don’t like it because they simply don’t like the concept of gw2 e-sports but as someone who does really like watching the e-sport events that are held, the finals were amazing and I quite literally can’t wait for season 2 which will use the same meta.

Question for you, what happened to that caused the come back?

There was so much skill spamming going on I could barely tell who was getting hit what skills. Freaking Bayonetta is more comprehensible than this flashy spam-fest. They might as well reduce the casting time of everything by 50% and reduce recharge by 80% and make it URF mode

PvP is just bad.

style.6173:

So many of you whine too much. PvP is in a much better place than it was 6 months ago. Be happy this isn’t WvW which does suck.

PvP just needs two things:
1. Better matchmaking
2. A better balance team (that said, the meta is a lot better than the previous bunker Mesmer one)

Trading poop for garbage. Sure, it’s… better in some ways, but it’s still horrible.

The game needs balance. The game DOESN’T need is balance from ArenaNet, trust me those guys aren’t good at it.

This is ArenaNet, the only way they know how to nerf is by power creeping everything else.

#NeedsMorePowerCreep

I got the answer. Buff necros.

#NeedsMorePowerCreep

ErazorZ.5209:

Rolisteel.1375:

Can i have your gear and other stuff?

Its a shame there are so many trolls like you, who would wrather make fun of someone like me then actually try and get where im comming from.

Because yes, in my opinion, people like you are one of the big reasons why anet got into this mess to begin with.

Your first mistake was assuming ArenaNet listens to anyone. I’ve seen troll posts with better ideas than actual changes ArenaNet made to combat. Hell, power creep is so bad, troll posts from a couple years ago are outclassed by todays ‘balance’.

The fact is, whoever is the making the decisions in combat design is not good at what they are doing and the game will continue to suffer because of it.

Burtnik.5218:

If you want to remove endurance gain on Shiro you have to compensate him with protection or smth, you know that right? But i bet you have never played core rev to understand how huge that change is nor you dont understand rev well enough to even be in position to suggest it.

Vamp signet has far more than 1,6k hp on initial and it also lets allies hp siphon off target. Do my allies gain daggers when i cast the heal? No. Do i can deal with poison? No. With condi? No. As for damage idc. With the amount of sustain some classes has 5k is nothing. It might as well dont deal any damage and you wont even notice it.

Relax dude, here is what is going to happen. Here is ArenaNet “balance”

• Deathly Chill will have it’s damage reduced by 50%
• Signets of Suffering will now convert all boons into conditions, signet recharges will be reduced by 80% and cast instantly.

The answer to a problem is to make an even bigger problem! GG combat team! #NeedsMorePowerCreep

Keadron.9570:

Arcaedus.7290:

StickerHappy.8052:

This is the thing, 1v1 Yes These examples I mentioned are unkillable. But lemme reiterate this again PvP is 5v5, It is a Team Game

@Malchior

You are right. Here is the thing though. There were more people complaining about DS (which isn’t a problem in a team setting) because of that 1v1 MENTALITY and Anet absolutely guts a subpar trait to begin with, into uselessness.

Why? Because of the whining.

They could’ve just toned down the protection spam, not because it’s strong, because it affects allies via aura sharing.

I think this is a totally bs reason for not balancing skills/traits. Skills/traits should not solely be balanced around 5v5 conquest.

The previous iteration of DS was definitely not okay. Maybe it was balanced in a 5v5, but in 1v1 (and many 2v2s) it nearly invalidated all condition builds. Don’t even try to argue this; there wasn’t a condi build alive that could take out even a slightly above average ele (lets say 60th percentile) using DS. DS was balanced in the fairly common (but not all-encompassing) 5v5 scenario, but it was ridiculously overpowered in 1v1s and even some 2v2s (team mates may heal the ele). Previous DS was NOT balanced, don’t try to argue that it was.

Actually I rarely ever had an issue breaking DS then again I rarely go full condi. While I agree it could be toned down a bit, I don’t like how it is now at all

There is a lot of things wrong with diamond skin, first off the necessity of it just shows how broken things are.

But if the developers really wanted to balance diamond skin they needed to hit invigorating turrets. There are moderately sized gaps when it comes to healing with your auras, invigorating turrets was basically perma regen and vigor to cover during those gaps. It was the only trait with good access to regeneration outside of arcana and without that regen, tempests take a nasty hit with their sustain. Heck, a strong nerf to bunker tempest but a buff to tempest would change it so aura’s apply 1 second of quickness.

It just shows how unaware they are, not just by design but mechanics. Diamond skin was a problem to the other problems, but instead of fixing all the problems, they decided to get rid of it and give ele’s more power creep with fresh air.

Chokolata.1870:

Every single game is and should be balance for the very top of the playerbase. The logic is thus, it is extremely unlikely that one can improve much anymore and thus issues are caused by balance and not by a lack of skill cap. And even then there is a lot of room and only the most obvious issues are fixed.

Why would you balance for the low or mid end of the spectrum when most issues can be resolved by better play?

Balance is important.

But fun is more important.

As long as I am having fun, it doesn’t matter if I am playing an underpowered character or class. If I am contributing, feeling active with my decisions and strategy, being weak doesn’t remove the fun from that.

_

What does remove the fun is combat being unbelievably forgiving when you poorly time your defenses, button mashing and missing attacks is not punishing at all and enough CC spammed around to create a player hurricane.

When most of the game is exactly like what I just mentioned, balance won’t do jack.

StickerHappy.8052:

Nova Stiker.8396:

StickerHappy.8052:

Malchior.5732:

StickerHappy.8052:

Malchior.5732:

StickerHappy.8052:

@Malchior

You are right. Here is the thing though. There were more people complaining about DS (which isn’t a problem in a team setting) because of that 1v1 MENTALITY and Anet absolutely guts a subpar trait to begin with, into uselessness.

Why? Because of the whining.

They could’ve just toned down the protection spam, not because it’s strong, because it affects allies via aura sharing.

Because 1v1s do matter to a certain degree.
It’s not fun for you to be playing randomly and you meet someone who is literally impossible for you to damage just because he chose 1 specific trait and you have incompetent team mates.

Now, if the trait is so trash in a team environment, it wouldn’t be picked at all, but it was and it was infuriating to play against such a binary trait: you either completely negate someone’s damage or you don’t and you die.

It’s not trash. But it’s not GM worthy either. Heres the thing eles with powerful auras will not get Cleanse trait on regen. That’s why DS was the only option going earth amidst all the condition spamming. So it’s not that its good or trash, its the only you can take if you wanna take Aura Sharing.

Now on your first point, we are talking about 2 different things. Incompetent Teammates does not equate to balance. It’s an MMR issue which is thankfully getting fixed by Season 2. Now, if you are skilled yourself and get teammates who are as skilled as you, then you can negate DS correct?

I’d argue that sacrificing Cleansing Water is the cost of team support on the level of Tempest and that Condi Spam should be toned down anyway.

My point is more from a design standpoint. It’s not fun to play against and it’s not terribly intelligent on the Ele’s part either and most of it’s counter-play relies on team mates (which, to be honest, this game is handling poorly; there isn’t such a concrete set of roles like in other games).

Yes Fair Points. I am also agreeing to the point that there is a lot of condi spamming in game which needs to be fixed to promote smarter application for them, not just mindlessly spamming marks or etc.

We shall see on season 2 if roles are more evident with the so called MMR fix. Hate to say it tho, the game is balanced around 5v5 conquest so you can’t really remove the team part aspect of it.

@style

Hey dude, I am not saying that this meta is worse. I am just pointing out that I do not want to see any unwarranted nerfs or buffs next patch just because of whining. The reason being is that because of these outcries and “pro players advising” are being used as justification to destroy a class or build or trait Without Prior Testing

Your mistake is assuming ArenaNet tests combat.

Dude, just look at staff necro, it’s the most boring weapon in the entire game. Yet, someone looked at the design and went, “This is okay, people will like this.”

The fact is, whoever is in charge of combat design and balance isn’t good. They’ve infected the game with tons of power creep and made some ridiculously bad decisions that even the most hardcore class fanboy would disagree with.

Hell, raids is a clear example of how the combat design lead has no idea what to do. You got 3 damage sponges on a timer with a handful of uber death attacks. My friend laughed when I said the most dangerous thing about the Vale Guardian was the green circle people had to stand in, then he proceeded to mock saying, “Back in my days, we fought bosses” yada yada yada.

---

At this rate, Guild Wars 2 combat will be hopelessly lost. ArenaNet needs to take a step back, look at what they got and say, “Guys, we got to bring this into 2016.”
But so far, we got the laughable joke that is EEESPPPPUURRTZ.

You are assuming too.

Who knows, maybe the reason the devs are incompetent is because the balancing is an upper management decision that prevents them from doing anything.

That’s what I hope though,, UNLESS they are really incompetent,

I highly doubt the developers are being held back by an executive decision.

I bet you ArenaNet hates the balance problem as much as us. I also bet whoever is leading combat design, just isn’t good at it. I wouldn’t call it incompetent, but bad at what they are doing? Yes. Do I think I can do better than them? Hell yes. The bar is so low it’s not hard for anyone to beat.

People are saying the game is balanced around community feedback, I heavily, HEAVILY disagree. Right now the community can do better, much, much better.

Heck, the excuse of “we got to balance PvP with PvE and WvW in mind” mentality the developers have is actually hindering the concept of balance. Right now, a lot of problematic powerful traits are just completely useless in PvE and designed only with PvP in mind. Ironically the game would be better balanced with PvE at the center, that’s how bad things are now.
There doesn’t need a PvP/PvE split for balance. What Guild Wars 2 needs to be a good combat developer at the wheel, one with excellent puzzle solving skills for mechanics, creative uses of tools for diversity and good at collecting testing data for balance.

All traits that the current combat design developers are currently missing.

StickerHappy.8052:

Malchior.5732:

StickerHappy.8052:

Malchior.5732:

StickerHappy.8052:

@Malchior

You are right. Here is the thing though. There were more people complaining about DS (which isn’t a problem in a team setting) because of that 1v1 MENTALITY and Anet absolutely guts a subpar trait to begin with, into uselessness.

Why? Because of the whining.

They could’ve just toned down the protection spam, not because it’s strong, because it affects allies via aura sharing.

Because 1v1s do matter to a certain degree.
It’s not fun for you to be playing randomly and you meet someone who is literally impossible for you to damage just because he chose 1 specific trait and you have incompetent team mates.

Now, if the trait is so trash in a team environment, it wouldn’t be picked at all, but it was and it was infuriating to play against such a binary trait: you either completely negate someone’s damage or you don’t and you die.

It’s not trash. But it’s not GM worthy either. Heres the thing eles with powerful auras will not get Cleanse trait on regen. That’s why DS was the only option going earth amidst all the condition spamming. So it’s not that its good or trash, its the only you can take if you wanna take Aura Sharing.

Now on your first point, we are talking about 2 different things. Incompetent Teammates does not equate to balance. It’s an MMR issue which is thankfully getting fixed by Season 2. Now, if you are skilled yourself and get teammates who are as skilled as you, then you can negate DS correct?

I’d argue that sacrificing Cleansing Water is the cost of team support on the level of Tempest and that Condi Spam should be toned down anyway.

My point is more from a design standpoint. It’s not fun to play against and it’s not terribly intelligent on the Ele’s part either and most of it’s counter-play relies on team mates (which, to be honest, this game is handling poorly; there isn’t such a concrete set of roles like in other games).

Yes Fair Points. I am also agreeing to the point that there is a lot of condi spamming in game which needs to be fixed to promote smarter application for them, not just mindlessly spamming marks or etc.

We shall see on season 2 if roles are more evident with the so called MMR fix. Hate to say it tho, the game is balanced around 5v5 conquest so you can’t really remove the team part aspect of it.

@style

Hey dude, I am not saying that this meta is worse. I am just pointing out that I do not want to see any unwarranted nerfs or buffs next patch just because of whining. The reason being is that because of these outcries and “pro players advising” are being used as justification to destroy a class or build or trait Without Prior Testing

Your mistake is assuming ArenaNet tests combat.

Dude, just look at staff necro, it’s the most boring weapon in the entire game. Yet, someone looked at the design and went, “This is okay, people will like this.”

The fact is, whoever is in charge of combat design and balance isn’t good. They’ve infected the game with tons of power creep and made some ridiculously bad decisions that even the most hardcore class fanboy would disagree with.

Hell, raids is a clear example of how the combat design lead has no idea what to do. You got 3 damage sponges on a timer with a handful of uber death attacks. My friend laughed when I said the most dangerous thing about the Vale Guardian was the green circle people had to stand in, then he proceeded to mock saying, “Back in my days, we fought bosses” yada yada yada.

At this rate, Guild Wars 2 combat will be hopelessly lost. ArenaNet needs to take a step back, look at what they got and say, “Guys, we got to bring this into 2016.”
But so far, we got the laughable joke that is EEESPPPPUURRTZ.

#StopThePowerCreep!!
#StopThePowerCreep!!
#StopThePowerCreep!!

Seriously ArenaNet, you have a minor balance update coming but the game needs more than minor tweaks.

Things are completely out of hand

• So many skills and traits are spammed wildly without good repercussion.
• There is no longer good punishment for failure, skills cast and recharge faster than they ever had before.
• You can modify your attacks to unreasonable levels, going from applying 1 condition to applying 6-7 different conditions on a single attack.
• There are so many mechanics that will only proceed to more problems, you got insane condition removal to counter to massive flood of conditions.
• So many badly aged mechanics. Instead of improving the mechanics of ranger and have the pets support the functions, you instead focused on pet damage.
• There is way to much CC, CC with big range and ridiculously low cooldowns.

I’m saying this now because everyone is calling it and it deserves it’s own thread.
The coming ‘balance’ patch will only be more power creep.

There is NEVER a point to post any gameplay suggestion on the forum. Heck, I have a 20 page document regarding improvements to combat and I’m not even 10% done. It just shows how bad things are and pointless for any suggestion to them will be.

StickerHappy.8052:

I think the forums are major driving force on what gets nerfed or buffed

If that was the case the game would be in a better place. Sure, a lot of stupid things were said here but ArenaNet does things that surpasses all forum posters. They listen to no body. It doesn’t matter how good your suggestions are or how famed you are in PvP, ArenaNet doesn’t care and continues to push combat to a worse state.

The game needs to slow down, more risk/reward. More punishment for failure. Skills cast to fast, recharge too quickly, boons are too easily spammed and there is no reason for any attack to land more than 2 conditions.

Combat is too broken, ArenaNet is actively removing fun from combat. It doesn’t need balance. It needs rework.

Berry Pun Pup.6904:

choovanski.5462:

anet balance team is either deeply incompetent, or deeply cynical

take your pick

Third, and correct answer is deeply non-extant. Anet doesn’t have a dedicated balance team on staff.

Wrong, they don’t have a single person that does balance or even proper testing.

Just look at raids, all of the bosses have 2 or 3 percent-based attacks, they cannot even figure out how hard to hit people so they took the easy route.

Israel.7056:

I’m with you on everything except the stream activity. To me that seems irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. But I admit I don’t really enjoy watching other people play video games.

They just don’t seem to know what they’re doing. Anyone else notice a drastic drop in dev enthusiasm since that Sharp guy left?

They never seemed to know what they are doing with combat, with or without Johnathan Sharp. I believe it was Johnathan that decided to have immobilize stackable up to 5 stacks and Dhuumfire (on release).

Say how bad combat is now, nothing compares to the immobilize buff. It was by far the worst thing to happen to GW2 combat, it not only took away fun from PvP but it make it frustrating as all hell.

Yeah, even with him there has been utter PvP breaking disasters.

ronpierce.2760:

Supreme.3164:

Double/triple hammer war for team spamming earthshaker off cd with zero penalty..it’s not exactly the definition of balance. The game was briefly fun to play for 2-3 months after launch, ….then the worst happened, the worst mistake any dev team can ever hope to commit, a danger area any experienced dev team stay well clear off, the first rule for any MMO company is to never, ever…..base the balance of a game on the feedback of the community, specifically by reading the forum

I’d argue the worst decision was to try to balance a game around a conquest mode that pressured people to fight in a confined circle. 70% of the balance issues spawn from that alone.

I disagree to a degree, I think the idea of conquest is perfectly fine. However, I think the capture zones are way too small and the capture ticking needs more forgiving ticks. Players having way to much defense or mobility will be a problem in all game modes, not just PvP.

_

That being said, the balance/combat design team is just bad. There is nothing more too it, at this point many of us can do better jobs than them.

bud.9246:

pvp has been ruined since 8v8 went away

Na dude, ArenaNet ruined PvP. It’s very clear they have no idea how to do combat design. Granted, they shown signs of them having no clue before, but the power creep is blatantly obvious.

Guild Wars 2 combat is doomed.

Hooglese.4860:

bbennett.7463:

Hooglese.4860:

The devs don’t acknowledge pvp players or players that make balance recommendations or bugs. They will, however, acknowledge pve players and pve recommendations. They give 0 craps about us or at least they make it seem like they do. Then again some players say such hateful things, I don’t totally blame them. I wish they would just like say “we are working on it” for certain things.

Sounds like someone needs to l2p

Don’t even try that kitten. Rev is buggy as hell. Most unused things arent even able to be determined if they need buffs cause they just don’t work.

We can even go beyond that, equaling bad design choices.

Look at Distracting Strikes, causing confusion whenever you interrupt a foe, it’s in Strength, a power traitline. Now look at Dual Wielding, increases the attack speed of your weapon as long as you have an axe, sword or mace in your offhand, in arms, the condition traitline.

You can argue it’s for balance issues, but lets take it a step further of bad design.

Powerful Synergy: When you activate a leap combo finisher, it activates twice.

• There are 9 combo fields, it has 0 effect on 5 of them! You can argue being worthless with 7. A trait that is 77.7% useless to the entire combo mechanic, you wanna know the best part?

The warrior cannot do anything with the trait with himself, necromancer, guardian, revenant or mesmer.
A trait that is completely useless to over half the professions in the game!!

Powerful Synergy is something you’ll see on food, not a freaking grandmaster trait!

When it comes to designing combat, ArenaNet is really lacking. They have a good base and does nothing with it.

Anomaly.7612:

vlad.4871:

what feedback?they are just complains from people who maybe don t have a clue about the game.

Sorry, but this has been happening since beta. No joke. Players have tried to tell Anet what good changes they can make, and nothing ever happens.

To be fair, ArenaNet has done a lot of right things. The 3 split traitlines was a good thing and in my opinion well implemented.

Removing the condi-limit was a much needed change since beta, sure, it took years for them to realize they need to up the limit but meh, at least it was done.

They have done a lot of things right.

Then you got the complete bombs.

Stupid crap like Dhuumfire on release that just utterly ruins the fun of the game, stun bug, immobilize buff, all stuff that should have never, ever happened.

It gets even worse for PvP, WvW and PvE.

• Raids is an utter failure of combat design, I was fighting the Vale Guardian and my friend was laughing that the most dangerous thing of the raid boss was a green circle people had to stand in.
• WvW rewards is bare bone, like, where is the WvW gear? Why are you not encouraging people to kill eachother? We don’t want rare, expensive materials, we want awesome loot!
• And here we are in PvP with even less viable classes that the previous meta. How can you fail so epicly?

Developers just… How? Is there no one there going, “oh, guys, I know what can make this much better and so much more fun.” Is there a person at ArenaNet that leveled a necromancer from 1 to 80 ONLY using necro staff? No one looked at some of the boring and bad designs and go, “We should take this to the drawing board.”

Now where are the other legendary weapons? Are they really have trouble coming up with designs? Have you never played other video games for inspiration?

It’s like they are guessing whats fun.

bbennett.7463:

all these kids complain about dumb kitten. I would ignore them too if i was anet

Then you’d be bad at your job. I wish I could ignore all the stupid stuff in the world.

That’s one of the worst aspects of the developers, never, ever, assume people have no clue what they are talking about. Even if you know for a fact they are 100% wrong on their opinion, their opinion had to come from somewhere.

I remember talking about how OP Tempest was in the betas while everyone was complaining about chronomancers and reapers. The next beta, Tempests were BUFFED and buffed again in the last beta.

Oh, I only talked about it in game because of how pointless it is to share on the forums.

See how that can be a kinda big problem? Thinking your community is stupid is the mentality of a stupid developer.

bbennett you aren’t cool, what you are basically saying you are a moron because you don’t listen to anyone but yourself.

vlad.4871:

what feedback?they are just complains from people who maybe don t have a clue about the game.

Who knows nothing about the game? The players or ArenaNet? Or both?

Also, don’t even bother with suggestions and possible improvements.

Why are you looking for high skill play in unranked? That’s like playing League of Legends and expect smart, skilled players in ARAM.

Besides, PvP blows right now. ArenaNet insists on ruining their gameplay.

Silv.9207:

That female dark elf looks lime my teacher of inlay…

Her name is Gurl.
She doesn’t speak, she mumbles, screams and stabs things.

Black Desert is looking pretty awesome right now.

ArenaNet please stop failing combat design.

Laraley.7695:

Valkyriez.6578:

According to the forums of BnS, PvP there is as imbalances as here and is a dead game.

Source: https://forums.bladeandsoul.com/forum/617-arena/

News just in, people like to whinge about balance in forums.

The amount of complaining is definitely not as high as here.

What people don’t realize is the fact EU and NA have unfinished versions of their classes, the game is not as balanced at lvl 45. Missing a few levels and skills is pretty important. Despite this, the game is more balanced than gw2 currently is.

There are probably new gamemodes to come, too.

But there is a difference between the games. People here complain about both gw2 and BnS.

lol, I remember playing Dragons Nest, the game was fairly balanced at level 24, Priests were arguably the best with Mystics arguably the worst. Then they released content to level 40 and the game just died, PvP was insanely broken and levels played a massive difference.

That being said, Guild Wars 2 has a lot of problems. Too bad ArenaNet is in charge of combat design.

Have you PvP recently? It’s a big total mess with even less viable classes.

Just wait for ArenaNet to come in, screw up combat improvement again, then release the next league

Morwath.9817:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Morwath.9817:

Izanagi.9830:

I guess thats what you get if you play f2p games , poor support , no test servers….

BnS is pretty good (read: awesome compared to GW2).

Don’t promote that hentai game here… a game with a kittenty storyline,and kittenty pvp with no strategy at all. Come on calling that game crap is an insult to crap. That game is utter crap. Gw2 is light year ahead of BnS.

I guess balanced 1v1 PvP too hard for scrubs, so its equal to crap for them ;-)

It only goes up to 2v2 and no, it’s not real 3v3. It’s not bad, but I have more than 1 friend I like to PvP with. Being balanced is arguable, it feels like some classes are weaker or stronger against certain others, like when I play my Blade Dancer I always have more trouble going against Destroyers, yet when I’m against Assassins, I feel like I have a good advantage just because of the mechanics.

Oh, and KungkittenMasters can be completely broken in 2v2.

Besides, WvW was fun until ArenaNet completely gutted the rewards.

They should have designed Dragonhunter with PvE in mind instead of designing it with mechanics just for PvP.

If you are playing reaper, you really don’t need a mouse.

See?
https://youtu.be/vcho3twIK2g

There are even less viable classes now.

How the heck did ArenaNet completely ignore the glaring issues?

Valkyriez.6578:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Valkyriez.6578:

kolompi.1287:

Valkyriez.6578:

I wouldn’t listen to the PvP forums as a dev either. Players rarely if ever agree on good balance and 99% of the threads and replies is garbage “balance sucks” and that’s about it. There’s nothing constructive in there at all.

That might be because Anet cannot balance the game.

Of because no matter how or what they change for balance there’s always whingers?

-.-
Excuses, excuses.

There are a lot of things that are inexcusable and contributes to just bad design.

Like what?

… Really? Do I really have to go over this? Have you never PvPed? Or are you throwing cow pies in Queensdale?

1. Bristleback does WAY to much damage. Smoke Scale is the only pet which attacks are unblockable for who knows. “Search and Rescue!” is extremely strong as it allows rangers to safely rez allies while keeping a good position.
2. Reapers deal a ton of damage thanks to sheer amounts of trait procing.
3. Thieves got buffed for relatively NO reason.
4. Scrappers are way to tanky thanks to 2 overpowered traits.

Wanna go deeper?

5. Dragonhunters are better in every aspect to warriors, the virtues are significantly stronger, recharge faster and have more useful actives. Not to mention the stupid amounts of CC and traps with 0 casting time. Why 0? Why make them fart out blade of light?
6. Revenants are STILL loaded with so many bugs.
7. The problem with Warriors is they have natural weaknesses that can shut them down, weaknesses that the dominate classes easily take advantage of thanks to the power creep.
8. Elementalists are still completely screwed over by condi. Chill slows attunement recharge, poison slows their healing which isn’t good with a low health pool and these two conditions are spammed out like candy.
9. Poor Mesmers have been gutted to the extreme, because everything has been power creeped, they cannot keep up.

If everything becomes OP, then the game will no longer be fun. Taking the skill -factor out of it completely.

Valkyriez.6578:

kolompi.1287:

Valkyriez.6578:

I wouldn’t listen to the PvP forums as a dev either. Players rarely if ever agree on good balance and 99% of the threads and replies is garbage “balance sucks” and that’s about it. There’s nothing constructive in there at all.

That might be because Anet cannot balance the game.

Of because no matter how or what they change for balance there’s always whingers?

-.-
Excuses, excuses.

There are a lot of things that are inexcusable and contributes to just bad design.

Valkyriez.6578:

I’ve been enjoying the current balance. It seems nice and fast, free flowing and people actually die and stay dead.

It’s just one poison to another.

I want someone else other than ArenaNet to balance the game. They are clearly unable to do their jobs.

No please! Anything but ArenaNet balance! They are so bad and uncreative at combat design, the last thing the game needs is balance from them!

Dawdler.8521:

I always find it funny when people talk about sPvP core issues followed by rambling about classes. Last time I checked, the only core issue is … [insert drumroll]… the gameplay mode. The capability of standing on a tiny capping circle drives player vs player balance. Only problem is, its the only place in the game that does this meaning its impossible to balance by class, you will wreck or OP it in other modes.

But I digress. Lets randomly tweak some numbers instead. Its worked great so far, right?

The gameplay mode is not the problem, if something can sustain 1v3 itself yet still be secluded to a small area will be a problem across all modes, not just PvP.

Heck, it’s one of the reasons why raid bosses are so poorly designed, nearly all of their attacks are percent damage. The answer to super tanky players is to ignore toughness completely? Real smart ArenaNet, reaaaal smart -.-

You can even argue that if the traits/runes/sigils were balanced around PvE the balance would be in better shape. Just look at Elementalist Earth Grandmaster traits. Who the heck needs condition immunity above 90% health, immunity to critical hits but only attuned to earth or maintaining the passive of Signets in freaking PvE?

Necromancers have so much boon corrupt, but it’s only an issue when fighting against players. At no point does Guild Wars 2 PvE ever rewards striping 3-4 boons.

The most problematic traits are designed solely for PvP. The sheer amount of condition spiking was designed only for PvP. I’m not saying the game should be shaped around PvE but what I am saying ArenaNet is dumb making designs for solely 1 game mode.

ArenaNet just completely lacks combat creativity.

Dude, we got Reapers chilling everyone to death.
Super tanky scrappers.
Thieves with no predators.
Bristlebacks dealing way more damage than they should.

There are significantly worse problems and ArenaNet isn’t creative enough to make stances into something interesting.

A better question is whats the plan for balance?

It doesn’t matter if X becomes good again, there are so many overarching problems with combat right now.