Guild Wars 2

Retreat granted swiftness and Aegis for as long I could remember. It would make sense that it gave Aegis, not retaliation but I think you may have been thinking of another utility.

I can’t imagine too many guardians are going to rely on VoC’s passive to protect them from end-game boss 1-shot attacks. If it’s, sure. But VoC’s active, or simply dodging, seem to be the much better way to avoid being 1-shot by nasty atttacks. And that’s even assuming it’s up during the 1-shot attack.
And to illustrate my point, think how many dodges we can do (even without Vigor) in the 40 seconds it takes to recharge VoC’s passive. For one block that we can’t control, 40 seconds just seems excessive. The active is great, I’m not saying it isn’t. But the passive (or its cooldown) just doesn’t seem to be on the level of the others (or at least on VoR’s).

Being able to dodge is everyone’s responsibility and in a perfect scenario would be great but it shouldn’t be used as a reason to debunk a player’s reliance on that skill/utility/trait. The option of activating VoC is there just in case players are caught out or had a concentration lapse. Having that option is part of the Guardian, after all we are a support profession.

The 40 second cooldown is to balance the potential that VoC can have when traited and timed correctly. Virtue activation by default is lacklustre but properly treated, it is an extremely powerful tool to use.

Someone already mentioned that VOC can break stuns and grant stability. But then combine it with Renewed Focus which resets the cool downs, 40 seconds doesn’t sound too unfair. Obviously it’s power will depend on how you set out your guardian but comparing it to a Warrior Shield skill doesn’t really put things in the correct context. Also to comment about the focus block, while both a 3 second block and 3 block have their strengths and weaknesses, the focus doesn’t require your character to stand immobile after activation. Also the guardian Mace #3 is also essentially a block, so if you begin to combine all of the Guardian’s elements together you can see why maybe the warrior shield block is on a shorter cool down.

To summarise everything that has been said, Guardians simply have multiple options in gaining Aegis that the cooldown on VoC should not be an issue. Multiple options of block on selected cooldowns force players to properly time their blocks during encounters, regardless whether it is PvE or PvP.

Also to further answer your concerns, try to imagine VoC as just one element of the Guardian. When you start making links between certain combinations of traits and setups, you will see it’s strengths rather than just the weaknesses which will happen if you treat it as a stand alone ability.

Both professions are well desired in all contexts so give them both a try and see which one you like more.

There are enough ways for guardians to mitigate damage other than vitality. Once you learn to exploit those mechanics to their potential, you’ll see why guardians have such a low health pool. I believe the question to this thread has been answered based by the silence of the OP.

I do think that GW2 has both, some of the best and worst ideas/mechanics for their dungeons. The Fracts and new dungeons I think are pretty spectacular and the way they’re presented is different from anything I’ve seen in the other mmos I’ve played. But then its got some really irritating content like the bugged scavengers and crawlers in AC where you’re still receiving damage when you’re not facing them or that most of their attacks knock you down. The same can be said about CM as well. But while many dungeons lack polish, gearing properly and knowing your surroundings will improve your experience drastically.

killcannon.2576:

CobaltSixty.1542:

ADHD generation strikes again.

A person has adhd because they want compelling gameplay? Classy.

What a person finds compelling in gameplay is purely subjective.

Best thread i’ve read in a while

Once you learn the mechanics of the dungeon, you’ll find that you can melee just about everything and to a much better effect. Some encounters will favour ranged which is what weapon switching is for. Your experience will also depend on your group. I usually avoid pick up groups at all costs and go with guild runs only.

I highly suggest soldier runes as it lets you run a shout build while still being able to wipe conditions from not only yourself, but your entire group.

I think you need to look further into all the racials before saying that they’re completely horrible. The Owl and the Leopard are pretty good elites in terms of usability and profession. The Leopard can almost guarantee an escape with the invisibility and charge. But I will agree that some of the other transformations could use a tweak.

Popping in to give an update on my outfit

I’m surprised that the CM heavy set hasn’t been mentioned because I think it looks simply stunning in silver especially how it reflects light sources. My guardian is also a Norn and i used to wear the heavy plated set but once I started to appreciate the worn look to noblemen’s armour, I never went back.

You can argue that the shield is probably best defensive option in PvP. #5 and the passive defence is the reason so many bunkers use it. The bubble pops almost instantaneous when used and is incredibly effective at defending nods and preventing finishes assuming people are not running stability. The cooldown for both abilities are long and wont be used as often in PvE but are still good for soloing content. The shield doesn’t have a block because the Guardian already has a passive Aegis, Protector’s Strike or the Focus block. A lot of people argue that the abilities should be swapped but I disagree.

The auto attack on the scepter actually does a lot of damage and one of the highest on single stationary targets. Where the weapon starts to lose it is against pulls of multiple targets since the damage of smite is spread and the auto attack only hits the one target. However I’m happy with this as it encourages guardians to get into melee combat which in my opinion excel at.

Calling AC harder than ARAH is a huge far cry. In it’s current state, the reason why not as many people run the new AC is because they haven’t adapted to the changes. What it did do was create a certain type of teamwork required that people shy away from. If people learn the mechanics properly, the dungeon is actually very easy.

Remember, armour and weapon aesthetics are purely subjective. For example I personally like the AC weapons over the ARAH weapons due to the look I was after for my character.

Also, people ran AC to level quickly because it was a dungeon that required very little team work and can easily be carried by Higher level players.

Sandra Martino.3870:

Polle.6908:

In relation to the video, in any given combat situation that can never happen since both players would be continuously moving and using other skills. In my experiences using the scepter in spvp, there hasn’t been many issues regarding the homing effect of the auto attack and have found it quite effective in many situations.

What happens in the video actually does happen. A few examples: a zerg is attacking a tower and you target a random person in the enemy zerg and you activate autoattack, it will not hit. Why? because the target is moving. If you roam alone and you find another lone roamer and you engage in 1v1 the scepter will not hit. Why? because the target is moving. While i only WvW and not Spvp i cannot speak of Spvp experience but i cannot imagine that all players in Spvp are stationairy. The only department of the game where scepter is viable is pve since most of the target are stationairy.

Which brings back to the original point of my post. The orbs will not hit if you treat the scepter as a ranged weapon from another profession. Case in point, your second example where a 1vs1 you said it will NOT hit is completely untrue. In Spvp, WvsW(1vs1) and Tpvp environments, you are consistently trying to run around your opponent snaring them and laying down smite in addition to the auto attack. About 2/3 of the orbs will hit and this is in a situation where both you and the target are moving. The Scepter is more than capable of hitting moving targets. I personally believe there was some intent from Anet in doing this to prevent guardians from seeing the Scepter as their primary option for combat.

Just my thoughts on this…

I don’t think it was intended by the developers to make the scepter’s auto attack that effective at long range. Since the Guardian is primarily a melee class I could only assume that the damage must not over power it’s melee counterparts.

In relation to the video, in any given combat situation that can never happen since both players would be continuously moving and using other skills. In my experiences using the scepter in spvp, there hasn’t been many issues regarding the homing effect of the auto attack and have found it quite effective in many situations.

At the moment I’m quite content with the Scepter as a whole and adapted it to my play style. The only advice is that to the people who are struggling with it, you cannot treat is a traditional range weapon like other professions but try to imagine it as a slightly extended melee weapon. With that mindset, the scepter’s weaknesses don’t seem as prominent or serious as some have stated in this thread.

Irena.1062:

Greatsord comes with better skills, and deals more damage with little to no reduction in survivability nuff said.

I strongly disagree with that statement. I would say the GS offers excellent damage while being able to do a slew of other things while still maintaining a level of mobility but having no reduction in survivability is untrue.

It’ll probably worth it if you try it out yourself in a dungeon and see for yourself. You’ll obviously find situations where one is better over the other but in my experience a GS is probably the optimal choice for purely damage if you’re familiar with your surroundings and completely confident in your ability to stay alive.

The Shield is mainly a defensive option and works quite well for certain encounters.

I like how the guardian was designed to not be as mobile in that sense. But for anyone who rolled a Norn Guardian, pick Snow Leopard form for your elite skill when in WvsW. I love it to bits.

The correct answer is that the missions could be more difficult for certains builds, not the profession. Any guardian running a Power/crit build should of steamrolled the content. The Hammer pretty much trivialised it.

I also want to add as well, the focus also grants 3 blocks. Remember, this game doesn’t have the same formula as other mmos. Certain weapon setups should grant more protection with the offset of damage, but not to the point where one setup relegates you to being a meat shield.

Removing the damage component would set a horrible landslide for the mace. In doing that, you’ve practically made the mace an auto attack weapon with a damaging symbol. Guardians already have one of those, and that is the hammer. You also still want to be able to kill things, having a reactive damage component for the mace is fantastic, especially against multiple enemies.

I strongly disagree with this idea unless you plan on overhauling the mace which I don’t think needs to be done.

PyrophoricX.7540:

Well, I guess that is my issue then, coming from the concept of tanking, healing and dps.

I assumed that even though any class can technically play any roll, when it came to dungeons, a player would need to choose a specific build to fill a typical roll. Meaning, you’d still need a tank/healer/dps combo.

From what is said here, it sounds as if dungeons are about finding the mechanic and dps dead. Not sure what the point of a full spec into Vitality/Toughness are good for then. More to the point, I am not sure what the point of melee is, especially in this dungeon. The ultimate build/class is whichever has the best/most utility to keep the enemy at a distance, so any class with a primary focus in range.

It is easy to get into the mindset of “what is the point of melee” after you’ve run your first dungeon. As you get better you’ll soon realise melee is the more effective and efficient way to clear dungeons (with some obvious exceptions though). The framework of GW2 is that everyone looks out for each other and you must also look after yourself. Having melee members in the group will help speed up kills by clumping enemies together as well as offering boons. A run of simply everyone kiting in every direction actually takes longer since boons are wasted and utilities are used for getting away, not killing the mob.

At level 80 the 2 heavy classes, the warrior by most standards do the most damage(melee) while the guardian can just about keep protection up 100% of the time for people near melee range.

This has always been the way renewed focus works. It will make you invulnerable, but it won’t remove the conditions you already have. So make sure you remove them before you use renewed focus.

Both are great! I always have 20% off shouts, enlarged symbols and empowered might in pve!

Obtena.7952:

DeathPanel.8362:

Wrong. There are simply builds that are not good in this game and condition guardian currently is a bad build unless they make major changes to how burn works and add more ways for guardians to apply burn.

That’s just too general to be true. What makes it bad? In what situations? Why? Once you answer those, you realize there is actually content in the game where the shortcomings of burning don’t have a negative impact. Burning works extremely well there.

Off hand, I can think of 4 ways Guardians can apply burning and you can access them all with the same build. It does what it’s supposed to … a secondary, parallel damage line. It should never get better because it’s role in the Guardian toolset would change.

DeathPanel.8362:

The same player with the same skills will simply be less effective using a condition build vs AH build.

The effectiveness of builds are relevant to the content they are used in and how well they suit a players style. Your statements are too general to have meaning. For example, AH/shout build is not better than my burning build for solo farming. We have a bit of a conundrum then.

What makes full condition builds frowned upon has already been noted several times in this thread but I’ll note some for you again.

- Burning only stacks in duration and can only come from one source. This means only one player is making use of the extra condition damage.

- This will cause problems if more than one member of the party is running any form of condition build. This means your primary stat suddenly loses a lot of value.

I won’t compare this to an AH/shout build because they both serve different purposes. A burn build centres towards yourself, not your group.

The reason why going full condition damage isn’t as popular as a Power/Crit/crit dmg build is because in many cases, especially group play, the stats are not there to increase the damage of your burning, but to allow you to make use of the traits which increase damage to burning targets. Since only only source can be placed on a target at a time, many other professions are able to deal a great more condition damage than guardians.

The upside is that you can help keep burning on a longer duration but that essentially means, the extra CD through stats that you’ve worked so hard to get is nullified. So this is where the notion of wasted stats come in. While you do keep the duration up, the extra bonus damage simply disappears into thin air. The main focus here would be to see if that extra damage increase on burning targets is worth the trouble of the gear.

I personally don’t like it because the effectiveness of your build greatly depends on the make up of your group where as a straight forward Power/Crit/Crit dmg build wouldn’t have the same problems.

However in saying that, I think a full condition build will work a lot better for a solo player since they’ll be able to make use of all the stats. Just in group play, especially large groups, condition damage as a stat really diminishes. I’d personally wouldn’t go full condition damage since I always play with my guild. Condition damage is just one way to play things. If you enjoy it, then just stick with it.

The mace is a defensive weapon and is incredibly effective when trying to keep targets in place as the amount of healing and block it provides lets you stand toe to toe against hard hitting enemies. The protector’s strike is amazing and the symbol has an extremely low cool down. I’ll probably stick to using something else that does more damage in dungeons but it does a have a place against single targets and bosses.

CM can be a difficult dungeon to run because it requires a level of teamwork which far overshadows AC. Many of the enemies cause huge stacks of bleeds, knock backs and just mega loads of damage which requires the party to pull carefully and position themselves.

Unlike AC, CM also requires a more specific utility and trait setup. Reflection and condition removal seem to be the main draw points for succeeding and even in story mode, the enemies can still do some serious damage to a level 80.

Anyone who isn’t familiar with GW2 dungeons will simply get stomped. My first CM explore run was pretty awful but after repeated runs every few days, it actually isn’t a bad place minus some bosses that just have too much health. There are definitely some things that could be tweaked. I find that huge clusters of enemies that fire projectiles could be toned down and certain bosses could use a mechanic overhaul.

I can see how a level 45 can see CM as an impossible task. If you imagine a full group of level 45s and non of them have ever been there then yeah….. A group of well geared level 80s can easily wipe. I think the issue here is the teamwork gap required between here and AC.

Thz.7569:

I keep hearing this and it’s getting increasingly annoying. 2MB is not the same damage as whirling wrath, open your eyes. Whirling wrath is a channeled ability and its damage ramps up — the damage isn’t even close.

On a single target, a well initiated whirling wrath will do a lot more damage than a Mighty Blow. However as you’ve already stated, Mighty blow isn’t a channel so the damage it inflicts is more reliable at a longer range. Couple that with the short cool down, the damage output between the 2 is closer than it first looks.

Guardian damage isn’t excitingly high but very consistent. The Greatsword and Hammer are both great for dealing multiple enemies while the scepter is good for single targets/ structures.

Most guardians go for Power/precision/crit dmg because Burn damage doesn’t stack in damage but only duration making condition very unpopular. Valor and Honor are actually the most popular traits to put in for most builds as these 2 trees offer the most improvements to utilities, cooldowns and survivability.

Armor sets are completely cosmetic. Karma sets are always a good stepping stone before you do dungeons but you can always change the stats by using transmutation stones anytime. Heck you can wear rags and still have the stats you want.

I don’t believe the hammer is a viable option anymore after the patch. Ninja skipping no longer works (right after the second hit, you dodge, return to your starting location and still hit with the 3rd swing).

The Hammer was already mega powerful without Ninja skipping . The almost 100% protection uptime and constant blast finishing makes running dungeons a hell lot easier.

Blissified.8369:

Drgori.5724:

Meditation for solo play, Shouts for group

Please refrain from posting general statements like this,

We all know that shouts work better in groups but its not as night and day as this.

Because a lot of the time even when im in a huge wvw group with a party, im too far away for them to benefit from shouts

The difference is night and day though. Not being in range of the shout in WvW or SPvP has nothing to do with the build. This has more to do with the player, not the build.

thisolderhead.5127:

LordGustoff.3752:

1. Hammer 4 is a useless skill.
2. It doesn’t make sense to me why one who engages in melee combat would want to knock an enemy OUT of melee range. As an escape mechanism, we already have Hammer 3 and/or anything a second weapon set. Secondly before I stopped using it I used to get yelled at when running dungeons for knocking enemies away, even though I made sure never to use it while people were trying to execute important combos. For these two reasons I’ve stopped using it altogether.
3. I would really like to see this changed to a knockdown instead. A knockdown syngerizes much better with melee combat, and it would solve the “stop using knockback” issues when running group content.

Actually it makes a lot of sense if you are focused on area denial bunker/support roles- which Guardians can put together an amazing amount of tricks to support.

Edit: I almost forgot to explicitly mention that you can couple the knockback with a leap/blind or pull interrupt (quick weapon swap req’d), this gives two ability breakers and a denial of area with reasonable damage, and the second breaker (usually) being a combo finisher… yep – can’t find a place for that to be used in the game today…

This

The knockback was originally intended for situations where you want to remove people out of play. Examples like trebuches, stompers, people around cliffs or even punting someone into your zerg. You can utilise #4 in a melee situation by using it straight after #5. A player without stability would be completely shut down for a few seconds which is all the time you need with a Hammer.

But on topic yes, things that annoying me

- Teleporting into a tent with flash blade and getting stuck between the sheets. :/

Geewoody.2017:

Brutaly.6257:

Can just agree with Hjulstad, its more or less a l2p issue.

The only bad thing with the hammer is that 2h mastery aint increasing dps. Which makes it a useless trait from a pve perspective. Up the damage from MB and lower it on the chain by decreasing the length of the animation (1s) and one tick from the symbol would “solve” it. But reducing animation length based on people that cant execute is just rubbish.

The weapon in it self is just fine, besides dodging out of RoW, and is probably our most versatile weapon.

How is a second off the cooldown not increasing MB’s DPS? And I’m pretty sure MB is almost identical to WW in terms of damage output, due to having a cooldown half as long.

2 Hand Mastery on it’s own for the Hammer isn’t as much of a straight dps increase compared to the GS. Its got to do with how the Hammer chain works with the symbol being implanted on the third strike and it’s relationship with the lowered cooldown of MB when used for comboing.. You should however be able to combo with less problems with longer lasting symbols.

Why do hammer and staff have different builds from the others?
Minus 300 precision mean a great loss of DPS, 300 vitality and Healing Power don’t matter much in terms of DPS.

In addition to that, there are also variables in damage when used against multiple enemies. Scepter orbs are highly ineffective against multiple mobs and smite hits are shared. The third strike of the Mace auto attack only hits your main target. Staff Auto attack is a cone. Both Hammer and GS auto attacks are quite good as they both offer lots of AOE. GS abilities consistantly deal AOE damage despite the cool downs. Mighty blow has a huge radius in addition to the symbol after the third strike.

So which weapon is more combat effective in dungeons or boss fights? Damage comparisons can be finicky and you cannot treat damage numbers like you do in other MMOS, its not that simple I’m afraid. You should be switching them in and out depending on the situation if you wan’t to get most out of the profession.

So I did some research around the net. There are huge variables on when it and doesn’t work. Some people can get it to work on defeated players, some got it to work on downed but the overall theme is that it doesn’t have a very good success rate. Couple it with the recharge time, it is very difficult to justify having it on your utility bar unless you find yourself in unusual circumstances where battle ressing is vital.

Geewoody.2017:

Polle.6908:

Geewoody.2017:

Kill the clones first and watch the mesmer flop about like a fish out of water.

Just make sure they’re not the bad exploding type.

That’s exactly the reason you should kill the clones. -_-

I apologize for my poor attempt at humour.

Aveneo.2068:

Just a fyi, but Mesmers can’t use shields. So I’m guessing that was a typo?

Nah I thought those were the weapons that Kita was using. :P

Geewoody.2017:

Kill the clones first and watch the mesmer flop about like a fish out of water.

Just make sure they’re not the bad exploding type.

Offensive pressure seems to work well against mesmers. I’ve had better results with the GS and Hammer than a mace/shield.

Elusieum.8795:

I actually LOVE my raven form. I’m not sure what previous posters mean about being “rooted in spot” because I find that I can run around in my raven form. Perhaps the game developers took your suggestions and changed that?

I agree that 30 seconds is too short, and I would love to have a minute or two of my animal forms.

As a ranger, I find it fun to just charge in and tank for a little while. =P

I didn’t unlock leopard as an option. Does that come at a later level?

What people mean by rooted down is not because they cannot move in general, but when you auto attack with #1 your character is stuck in place, putting you in a huge disadvantage on moving targets. Despite the increased health on some forms, you’ll actually receive more damage because your character loses utility and will have a harder time moving out of red circles.

The only form which allows you to move and attack at the same time is the leopard, which is the reason for the huge cost in skill points.

Thats the beef of it anyway. Unless Anet changed this last patch, I doubt many people use these forms outside of an escape option. The Leopard charge skill is fun in some ways.

Betrayed is a strong word. Many people including me missed the event because of time zone differences but betrayed probably isn’t the correct word to use. It is indeed disappointing that the developers overlooked this possible issue when creating one time events and hopefully they’ll learn much from it. I’m enjoying the new content and for a F2P game, I’m very happy with this game still besides some issues.

If you get angry. Take a break and come back later. A few vistas were challenging but very doable. I remembered the clock tower. I died so many times and had to log off and vent but once I nailed the routine, it was hella fun. The only annoying part was that I lived in Australia so the last jump into the clock required some odd timing that would normally would had got you killed.

It doesn’t revive. I wasn’t out of range I stand next the the person that is downed but it won’t revive. I pay for this game I expect things to work -_-

I was using this last night for the first time ever and it worked it ok i guess. Signet Of Mercy actually doesn’t revive people from downed state. It revives dead people. The only reason why I used this signet was because we were doing FOTM and we had to kick someone out of the party so we had 4 people for the last 2 maps.

I managed to revive the mesmer during the colossal boss but couldn’t res the guardian on the next map even though I don’t think I was out of range. It is hard to test because the cooldown is so long.

Oh wow! I never knew what those vials were for. I pick up 2 of those on my first run and both came in the first 30 minutes. I’ve got no magic find so I guess I consider myself lucky. :/

I do think the level 80 areas have to be challenging. Orr isn’t that difficult to get through. The Karka however are a whole new beast and you really need to be on your game if you want to survive. Most of the enemies in the new zone require a trick or two to prevent yourself being ripped to shreds but generally I do enjoy that feeling of fear of running into multiple Karka/drakes instead of pulling everything in Orr and surviving.

MasterGeese.4756:

Near the Lion’s Arch bank…

Asura child: “Your face is funny! It’s all mushed and weird…”
Charr soldier: “No, YOUR face is funny. It’s like a little raisin…”

Love that one!

I’m not exactly sure if the Norns follow a specific archetype in other MMOs. They’re incredibly independent and egotistic. Has there been a race that is like that?

psirca.9452:

Mikegwald.2809:

psirca.9452:

It’s going to get a lot worse.

please dont troll

Say how it’s not getting worse.
Have you seen the people outraged.
I would be logged in right now but I’m not.

As stated, it is absolutely- empirically – no argument – no way out of it – no workaround – positively – most assuredly – going to get worse.

The people that aren’t playing now are just the first cycle. As players see less people, they will also go. It has happened in every MMO that made drastic changes like this. This company name does not make them immune to it. Their IP is not strong enough to survive betrayal, no one is immune from that backlash and eventual avoidance.

In this case I have a feeling once people actually understand what FOTM is about and actually try it out, It won’t be a problem.