Guild Wars 2

thrag.9740:

On large hitbox, ele is still king.

But on small hitbox, ele hits 30k, staff thief hits 32k, and condi thief hits 33k. All of this from qt’s benchmarks (http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/).

So ele isn’t really who you are competing with, condi ranger is (33k). Technically condi engi is top dog on small hit box (35k), but as always, you rarely see them in pugs.

important note: don’t convert your thief to condi thief just because of the numbers above. Condi thief only works well in certain encounters, of course the same could be said of power thief imo.

The other issue to note is that condi ranger and ele can do more damage at range, while power thief requires melee range.

A lot of people use dps meters now. So a lot of groups (well at least mine), don’t care so much about classes, but we just kick players who (literally sometimes) have no idea what they are doing. If you join a group and your only a bit below a condi ranger or ele, probably no problems. If you slip below the condi ps damage, then you might get some complaints. Although not much hopefully, as condi ps has been buffed a notable amount. If your dps slips into chrono/druid territory, expect a kick.

This sounds good. Can you recommend me the dps meter youre using?

TexZero.7910:

First bit of advice. Never be a one-trick when it comes to raiding, especially in a pug setting.

Regarding Thief vs Ele…. Thief can compete with them as far as dps goes. It just lacks the same utility.

As far as picking up mesmer to tank, see first point. Even if Thief is your 2nd assuming you decided to walk the tank road, get a backup ready because mesmer is limited slotwise in raids.

I wasn’t, I was mostly raiding on my 2h warrior dude (some support guy who was stacking some 25 thing damage buff?) but I wanted to raid on thief and literally nobody wanted me. For me the problem isn’t that I can’t get in raids, it is that I can’t get in raids with classes I want to. So I guess it’s still the same? Ele kittens on all other DPS?

Raizen.7981:

Hey, I’ve quit around 10 months ago because I rage quitted. I was playing a Thief (I think) and I couldn’t get into any raid because elementalists were dealing 25% more DPS than anyone and everyone wanted only elementalists as DPS. I’ve raided my soul out in WoW Legion and since I’m done with their system (I swear that half the time I spent in WoW was praising gw2 on their guild system) I would like to return here. However I would like to play what I enjoy and what I’m good at. So, is elementalist still >>>> every other DPS? Also, in Legion I played a tank, maybe I could tank here as well since I’m very good at it. I remember waiting hours for tanks (Mesmer ones – Chornomancers??) for raiding because they had some skill speed buff. Are they still really sought after? Any insight is welcome. Thank you for reading this

MAJOR EDIT: I can not hold a schedule anymore (part of why I quit WoW mythic raiding) so every raid I will do in GW2 will be PUGGED, which is why I’m so concerned about classes that get into raids pretty quick

Hey, I’ve quit around 10 months ago because I rage quitted. I was playing a Thief (I think) and I couldn’t get into any raid because elementalists were dealing 25% more DPS than anyone and everyone wanted only elementalists as DPS. I’ve raided my soul out in WoW Legion and since I’m done with their system (I swear that half the time I spent in WoW was praising gw2 on their guild system) I would like to return here. However I would like to play what I enjoy and what I’m good at. So, is elementalist still >>>> every other DPS? Also, in Legion I played a tank, maybe I could tank here as well since I’m very good at it. I remember waiting hours for tanks (Mesmer ones – Chornomancers??) for raiding because they had some skill speed buff. Are they still really sought after? Any insight is welcome. Thank you for reading this

You can always run 2 ascended sets, one with 5/5 and the other one with 150 ar
Or you can have 5x 16 agony infusions

I don’t understand the rant. This is literally the only “long-term goal”(even tho it takes like a kittening month to get then there’s nothing left to do anyway) in the game. If even this got easier…

Vayne.8563:

You can’t scale DS for 5 guys. It would be ridiculous. I’d hate it. It would lose what it is and a lot of people like what it is.

Being off-topic a bit, but doesn’t DS actually scale for 5 people? There’s a lot of people who did DS runs in 5/10 man parties because it’s way easier than doing it with huge zerks. I actually did a DS in 11 people and it was waaaay easier than doing it “the right way”.

DoctorDing.5890:

Raizen.7981:

…and I also understand that most of us are now between 20-30 years old

I have no hard facts, but I suspect your typical age estimate might be at least a decade too low. Gamers are older than you think.

I’ve been claiming to be under 30 for almost 20 years now….

Well to be honest I did say most of us, and most of the people I meet online are at around 22-25. It can be that the older guys aren’t that talkative so I didn’t meet more. Anyway, it’s just my understanding, be it right or wrong, but I do hope I made my point clear

Healix.5819:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Honestly, I just wonder how people fail.

Try playing as a keyboard turning clicker – WASD to move (no strafing) and only clicking skills, including dodge to be fair. Only use 1 hand at a time (keyboard/mouse) and delay all your actions by a second to simulate a slow reaction time. Limit yourself to random rare gear, clear your traits, choose whichever profession you play the least and base your weapon/skill choices on whatever looks the coolest. You’re now almost at the level of the average MMO player, which is why nearly all MMOs are below easy.

Which is why also MMOs are a dying breed unfortunately. I understand that we’re the generation who made MMOs popular back in the 2000s, and I also understand that most of us are now between 20-30 years old, meaning uni/jobs/families, so we don’t have the time to invest in games which we used to, like 10 years ago. 10 years ago, a noob could learn in 20 hours what a good player would learn in 20 minutes. The problem nowadays is, that the noob doesn’t have 20 hours to invest, in order to learn that particular thing, so he’d rather try and rant, so perhaps the game will change around his tight schedule. Some MMOs actually did that. Gw2 is the biggest MMO that has the system that even players who have little time to invest can reach the “top” of the game in a short amount of time.

The problem is that the people are greedy, and they want more. You made a hard game easy? Make it easier. You made it easier? Make it even more easier. And so on. That’s why I honestly haven’t heard of a title easier than Gw2, and it saddened me to see(after the SQU) that the devs are giving in to the demands of the bads and making the game even easier.

Dante.1508:

Sartharina.3542:

Danicus.4952:

Thank you all for the cogent responses. After reading the comments to date, I would like to make a few small clarifications. My primary concern is not one of difficulty. Well conceived challenging content is a good thing. I don’t want additional nerfs. What I ineffectively articulated was that the design choices in the expansion diminish population access, and when people express their frustration, it is not productive to engage in ad hominem attacks about their skill or understanding of what an MMO is.

Consider the first HOT map zone for example. Run out of endurance while gliding and fall to your death in pulsing vine twitch. This insta-kill feature is not present on later maps. Seems like an upside down design choice. Consider all of the character trapping map features in the wrecked ship canopy areas in the first zone. I typed in /stuck many many times. Consider all of the locked waypoints on all of the HOT maps (there has been improvement with this). Consider how movement becomes easier as you become more experienced – (an upside down player skill progression imo) when accessing areas. (Doesn’t it make more sense to need to develop skills to access the most challenging areas on later maps rather than the first map!) Consider how the terrain mesh and the 2d layered maps / minimap are purposefully obscure to make pathing difficult. Compound those concerns with convoluted 3d maps, group timer meta events, megaserver and lfg challenges, and it feels – that by design – HOT does not invite casual player drop in, play, drop out experiences.

Mob attack mechanics,placement and strength will always need to be tinkered with, so that’s not what I consider a HOT specific design issue. People are frustrated to some degree with that, I get it, but I think the underlying source of frustrations are about design choices and not difficulty.

I think the idea they were trying to go for with HoT maps was a “Metroidvania”-style progression with the masteries. The first time through the maps, you’re supposed to take your time and see what they have to offer, with a few things locked behind higher-level masteries to allow for re-exploration, and other upgrades making the maps easier to navigate to reduce the tedium of backtracking through the massive maps, once you’ve already explored the new details.

There’s a lot of fun to be had in opening and learning maps, and truly exploring them and how they fit together (instead of just “Go here to hit Point A”)

You know that makes sense after doing HoT but the thing to remember is this is an MMO which had its direction planned for in Core, changing the whole game into a Metroid type experience is jarring to be polite.

As a customer i personally hate Metroid and all the clones it made, i just dislike those style of games and i’m not interested in playing them..

Which probably explains why i hate Heart of Thorns with a passion.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Honestly, I just wonder how people fail.

It is a legitimate question. I see topics/posts with this content all the time:

“This stuff is too hard! I watched a video guide on what to do, but it didn’t work! I watched a build video, but it didn’t work! I got a group together and we still couldn’t do it! Nerf the content!”

And yet, each one of those things is a great asset to me. The biggest disadvantage to these threads is that, I don’t actually get to see the person who makes the claim play. I can’t critique them, and give them specific advice on how to help them deal with problems. I am expected to accept the notion that this player has reached some type of personal skill ceiling of which there will never be any improvement, and thus the game needs to cave to their demands.

And yet here I am, walking through hot in 8 out of 9 different classes, all in full glass cannon gear, and I’m not having a problem on any of them. I’m not exactly a “skilled player” either. In skill I’m rather average. I don’t encounter the problems that other people have. So, to give meaningful advice, I have to actually see the problem that someone is having.

If HoT is too hard, provide some type of evidence. A video of some kind, showing HoT being too hard.. That way, we can actually see the specific problems.

For me personally as a Daredevil the frog things are almost unbeatable, they are teleporting, unhittable and do incredible damage solo, in a pack i am dead.. i may as well stand still and let them kill me because even if i attempt to fight them the end is the same.

I tried to pass two on a vine in VB and was killed 10 times in a row didn’t even drop one of them in the 10 tries, that to me is broken mechanics and i move on, its no longer fun after 10 frustrating tries so i logout, i did not go back since.

Say what ever you like “l2p” “git gud” if you cannot pass something in 10 goes no amount of “git gud” will help.

With permanent dodges, we’re invincible 100% of the time, while dealing the second highest DPS in the game. You can literally stealth past anything, or abuse 3 450 range dodges + 2x 900 range shadowstepts+ 1x 1200 shadowstep which make for an incredible 4 350 range in a 4 second window. It’s irrelevant how much damage somebody else outputs, if it can’t land a single hit on you.
They are teleporting? You know that our F skill is an 1200 range shadowstep to the target, right? You know that your 2 main utilities should be Fist Flurry/Palm Strike which are both stuns, right?

If the game is so unfair to daredevils, why did I solo almost every single hero challenge in HoT, on a freaking glass canon DD?? Why can I solo content meant to be done by groups? Am I a hacker? I’m not even a good player. Either revise your totally wrong approach of the class, either find some other class to play, because thief isn’t for new players, either quit the game.

Sartharina.3542:

General Health.9678:

Get on metabattle and get a build. Then we can talk. Ready? Press 1. Sometimes 2. Often not 4. Because it’s PvE, walking into range, killing mob, aggroing the next mob and turning around and running away are all the rotation you need.

I’d actually argue against Metabattle – it has specialized, high-end builds that require you to know how to use them, most of them oriented to Instanced Group Play (How can I support my team of 4-9 others?), PvP (How can I kill other players while taking and holding points?), or WvW (Again – Killing players)

I’m literally doing every PvE related thing with my glass canon raiding tempest, glass canon raiding daredevil, raid zerker herald and raid zerker PS. Once you’re experienced enough(this can take a day for a good player or never for a total noob if we’re talking about HoT content) you’ll see that the build you’re playing has no impact whatsoever in terms of difficulty.

Dante.1508:

If you enjoy solo play, or are casual in any way, then no its not worth the money at all.

The grind is painful the resource collection are over the top and the maps just make you dizzy..

I don’t think I ever identified myself as a casual in it’s true definition, but what is actually a casual? A dumb noob, somebody who hasn’t got much time on his hands, or a combination as both? Because I really don’t see what casual has to do with this.

I’m a casual – as in I can’t take this game seriously. I’ve done half of my raids wasted beyond the legal limit, I’ve facerolled HoT on 5 toons in zerk glass canon gear so far and beside raids I never group up with anybody – I’m not even in a guild. The game has more to do with your skill level than anything gear or group related.

About not being solo friendly
-) are you a bad player? Yes, it’s hell in HoT
-) are you a bad player rocking full tank gear? You’ll do fine
-) are you a decent player? You’ll manage HoT with no problem
-) are you a great player? HoT will pose no challenge whatsoever.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Raizen.7981:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Stuff..

I agree that lag makes adventures a bad experience. However, as somebody who got gold on almost all adventures in less than a week, I can honestly tell you that adventures are only about your skill as a player.

Don’t you think those statements are mutually exclusive? If you agree that lag has an effect, then you can’t honestly say adventures are only about skill. I’m all for skillful adventures. We just need to get the lag out of them so they can be all about skill.

Raizen.7981:

Yes indeed, bugs in branches, ley run, lava floor are all about memorizing routes. That doesn’t make it bad.

Not at all. I’m fine with that. Had the route for ley line memorised quickly enough. Just couldn’t execute it reliably.

Raizen.7981:

And again, for the 81025th time, you do not need to have gold on all the adventures to reach 166 mastery.

I know, I know. But it’s not just about the mastery. I want to be able to conquer all adventures to gold. I want that achievement. The mastery points are just an added incentive.

Raizen.7981:

Getting silver on all of them is a piece of cake, and there’s some adventures that just give free gold for literally 0 skill(salvage pit, flying circus, wings of gold, the one where you drive a motorcycle thingy i can’t remember,

You’re thinking of Drone racer. Yes, did salvage pit again just yesterday and it’s easy as cake.

Raizen.7981:

There’s the medium tier(bugs in branches,punchomatic, the drone one, lava floor). With gold on these you should have absolutely no problem reaching 166

The drone one? You don’t mean drone racer again, do you? You mentioned it as easy above. Is there another drone related adventure?

Yes I’m sorry, I didn’t mean the drone racer again, I wanted to say the one where you kill a lot of chak mobs, scrap rifle. Most mobs there are called chak drones hence why I kittened up the spelling. And when I said adventures are only about skill I pretty much meant it when we’re talking about a lag free environment. It’s obvious that it’s not your fault that 2s ping makes you fall down branches.

About completing all adventures on gold – this takes a load of skill(I’m trash at aiming so the target practice thingy is off limits for me) so it might be a pain in the kitten

In this thread: bads complain about this dumbed down joke of a PvE game
This is the future of gaming. In 5 years poor Anet will have to design raid bosses with 0 mechanics, no timer, around 50 health and the only attack will be a telegraphed smash that deals 5% of player’s max HP with a 50 seconds cooldown. Bravo people, bravo.

On a more …?(I’d say serious but that was as serious as it gets) whatever, if you find HoT hard, there’s 2 things you can do:
a) if you want to renounce most of your damage, it’s fine, you can always bulk up, change to defensive traits, and you’ll literally never die, whatever class you’ll play
b) if you want to keep dealing top tier dps while playing a glass canon and still survive(so basically everyone in this game) the only thing you can do is actually get far better at the game(git gud).

But obviously, it’s never the player’s fault. If somebody horrible at the game(so again, like literally 99% of the people playing gw2) die to something, it’s never their fault. The game is waaaay too hard and we need more nerfs. Go on Anet, please oblige.

PS: could you also please remove like, the monsters from hoT? They’re mean and scary and I simply can’t 1shot them like I was doing in Tyria. Bug?

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

I never thought I’d care enough to comment on adventures. That’s until I sat down last night and focused on completing a few for the mastery points and the achievement of doing them to gold. Now I feel very different about them. And not in a good way.

Some are genuinely fun. Salvage pit, Drone race and Wings of Gold were enjoyable and with practice it didn’t take long to get gold. They’re even fun to replay.

Ley line run… not so fun.

I was determined to beat it last night. I watched videos. I practiced the run slowly to get the hang of the skills. And after two hours I got my gold. But those were two hours of frustration and swearing I’ll never get back. And I never want to do this ‘adventure’ again… which is a shame. It’s ostensibly a fast-paced race high above the ground. That sounds thrilling. The reality isn’t.

I live in Australian and I definitely felt the ping/lag other Australians have reported. Skills fired inconsistently. Sometimes pressing 1 would dash me forward immediately, sometimes it would take a second. When you have to press jump soon after to fly across a gap, you’re likely as not find yourself falling because you pressed jump before the skill fired.

I knew the course and the best path through it by heart after half an hour. I was pressing the right buttons. I was following the gold video almost exactly. And I was fighting the interface the entire time. What’s weird is that Salvage pit, drone race and wings of gold don’t seem to have this issue, or at least it isn’t significant enough in those to be noticeable. They’re perhaps more forgiving of lag. But when you’re racing a spark high above the ground to beat a 45 second countdown, suddenly every second is very important. And an unreliable interface becomes deadly.

I don’t know if it’s lag or something else, but several times I would also find myself stuck inside the models of the rocks after a dash or teleport.

And then there’s the final insult to this adventure: to get gold, it seems like you have to do it in 45 seconds. I did it in 45 seconds and didn’t get gold. I did this several times. It showed my score – 45 seconds – and below it showed the gold time – 45 seconds. But it wouldn’t award me gold. Now I know that you don’t get gold for finishing in 45 seconds. You get it for finishing BELOW 45 seconds. I tried again and again and eventually got it down to 44. Mission accomplished. Enjoyable.. not so much. And why the misleading time? If you want it done in 44 seconds, just write 44 seconds.

I don’t know how I feel about gating mastery points behind adventures. It felt satisfying to finish Salvage/Drone/Wings and get those mastery points. It felt …not satisfying, but earned.. to get them from ley line run. I worked really hard for those, and I don’t mind working hard, but in the end victory depended more on luck more than work and repeating the same actions over and over until you get a run where every skill fires when you use it. Some adventures aren’t a test of skill. They’re a test of patience.

I agree that lag makes adventures a bad experience. However, as somebody who got gold on almost all adventures in less than a week, I can honestly tell you that adventures are only about your skill as a player. Yes indeed, bugs in branches, ley run, lava floor are all about memorizing routes. That doesn’t make it bad. Dungeon mechanics, raid mechanics, pvp mechanics are all about memorizing stuff and reacting to it within a certain time window. Just as adventures are. And again, for the 81025th time, you do not need to have gold on all the adventures to reach 166 mastery. Getting silver on all of them is a piece of cake, and there’s some adventures that just give free gold for literally 0 skill(salvage pit, flying circus, wings of gold, the one where you drive a motorcycle thingy i can’t remember, the beetle one). There’s the medium tier(bugs in branches,punchomatic, the drone one, lava floor). With gold on these you should have absolutely no problem reaching 166

I’ve had this week 2 players in a level 4 fractal, one was 31,7k ap and the other one a bit over 32k. They had no clue what to do, constantly dying on the laser staircase, so I asked them if they bought the accounts. Each one states that he was over 4k game hours, but never tried fractals, and were doing for the first time to squeeze the only APs they had left.

Morale of the story: AP and game time DO NOT kittenING MATTER, unless proven otherwise.

NikeEU.7690:

After all this complete and utter nonsense, I still doubt that a nomads druid would even get kicked from a group. sure, magi’s is marginally better DPS for a healing druid, but I don’t see why Nomad’s wouldn’t be acceptable. Especially in Wing 2 where there is no Toughness based tank mechanics its basically the exact same as Magi’s. I said before this smells like trollbait and it probably is.

I bet this is trollbait, but still, regarding the meta, I gotta tell you this.

You still don’t know how the gw2 raiding community works. There’s the 1% that can think for themselves, and the 99% that take a build from your vids and play it without asking themselves any questions. Period. Neither you nor Dekeyz advertise nomad as viable gear for druids in your vids. So obviously, the players that are unable to think for themselves(again, mostly everyone) will not accept his build. For the players in this game raids are the scariest thing ever right after making a toon in Dark Souls 1, so obviously they don’t want anything to do with somebody that is not playing the exact builds you or metabattle advertise.

In every game, even in those purely pay to win(trino pls), raids are designed for people that are both skilled enough and are willing to attain any gear necessary to beat the encounter. There will not be, ever, in this game, a balance between the “casuals” and the “elitists”. Because if you do something for the casuals, elitists will complain that the raids will be a total faceroll(even if they already are in this game, but that’s not my point), and if you do something for the elitists, the casuals will constantly cry about how they are being excluded from content(basically all posts about raiding in the past 7 months).

There is no possible balance. Anet could try to add a difficulty challenge to raids, medium being as it is now, easy being something with less boss hp/boss damage/forgiving timers blah blah, and hard being, I suppose, something challenging(this might become insanely hard on sloth or mat, but if you look me in the eye and tell me that the bandit trio in wing2 is hard, I will slap you silly).

These modes could work very well, if it weren’t for the rewards. People would still want legendary armor obtainable from easy mode, while hardcore raiders would totally not be okay with “noobs” getting the same stuff as they are, for completing stuff 3 times easier than they are. Which brings me to my original statement(paragraph1), there is no possible pleasing everyone, in this game, when it comes to raiding.

If you wanna raid, learn the meta, play the meta, or don’t raid at all. Happy raiding everybody

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This problem comes up in every MMO i’ve ever played and the responses from the devs are usually the same every time, but in GW2 they can’t do the normal response.

Raids/ hard mode dungeons are typically considered end game content in every MMO. The players with the most time/skill/patience/dedication get to this content first. They put in more time, they are willing to experiment and fail, and they pick themselves up and try again when they do fail. This group of players has no problem clearing the content.

The second group of players are the casual players with skill. They are similar to the first group but they have less free time. These players are generally a month or so behind the first group, and typically are your “good” pugs. These players have no problem finding groups that are short a few members and learning the fights and helping other teams on a week by week basis with no long term commitment or strict schedule.

Finally we have group 3 players. These players are typically 2-3 months behind the second group and are always the loudest. They lack both time and skill, tend to be inpatient and always blame failure on others. They make up the majority of players in an MMO. These players are not willing to put in the time, effort, or failure required to beat the content. They view this as a personal attack on themselves and demand their right to clear the content like the other groups. They typically blame “elitists” who won’t let them in the raids, completely ignoring the fact that they have the same group finding tools as the other players had and used to form their parties. Telling them this just makes them angry because they view it as their God given right to raid with experienced people who already spent the time and energy to learn the fights.

Typically this is not a problem. Most MMO’s operate on a gear treadmill so once the hard mode dungeons/raids are one generation outdated (typically 4-6 months later) the type 1 and 2 players have moved on and the devs reduce the difficulty of the aforementioned content to a level where even the type 3 players can beat it. This placates them and the cycle starts over.

In GW2 however there is no gear treadmill. These raids are supposed to stay relevant for years to come. As such the complaining will continue to get louder and louder with no end in sight. The solution will probably be an easy mode version of the raid with reduced rewards, but must be handled carefully to appease both groups. If type 1 and 2 players stop doing raids, type 3 players will suffer for it. The other option is that Anet abandons raids after the whining gets too loud.

This is so accurate it should get stickied

Sird.4536:

Raizen.7981:

Sird.4536:

In your initial post you complain about having a certain amount of LI or achievement points and even titles, then you complain about having a schedule and now you complain about gear requirements. Can you make up your mind?

Though I will answer your initial question to me about whether I know what a schedule is. Yes. My schedule this week has prevented me from clearing wing 1 and 2 though today I am free. So what I am going to do is log on and with the power of guild chat form a group to clear wing 1 and 2.

In my initial post I complain about people claiming raiders are toxic, and then proceed to tell how I pugged a raid with 9 newbies, without asking them to ping LI and gear, and how after 3 hours everybody had Eternal titles due to a great run. I literally didn’t complain once

For some reason I though you were the OP due to the reply you gave me so for that I do apologise though the other stuff still stands.

Hey mate, no hard feels. Good luck with your raids

Sird.4536:

In your initial post you complain about having a certain amount of LI or achievement points and even titles, then you complain about having a schedule and now you complain about gear requirements. Can you make up your mind?

Though I will answer your initial question to me about whether I know what a schedule is. Yes. My schedule this week has prevented me from clearing wing 1 and 2 though today I am free. So what I am going to do is log on and with the power of guild chat form a group to clear wing 1 and 2.

In my initial post I complain about people claiming raiders are toxic, and then proceed to tell how I pugged a raid with 9 newbies, without asking them to ping LI and gear, and how after 3 hours everybody had Eternal titles due to a great run. I literally didn’t complain once

NikeEU.7690:

Your options:

1. Join a guild
2. PUG
3. Make super pug from F-list
4. Don’t raid

There is no “option 5. QQ on forums about demanding pugs.” pugs are pugs the world over and since you referenced your vast MMO experience you surely know that. So why are you complaining?

Pretty sure it’s not me who you wanted to quote. If it is, read everything before kittenposting.

Sird.4536:

So then what Is stopping you from making a group with your friends? What is stopping you from joining a guild anyway and making your own group within that guild when you are on?

Wonder if you actually know what a schedule is, or you’re just playing dumb

I love how I’m getting negative replies from everyone, even tho my posts are about how WE raiders aren’t as toxic as the other part of the community makes out to be.

I’ve been raiding since release, I find them far easier than WoW’s/RIFT’s/LOTRO’s/you name them, I always pug them because being in a guild is not for me.

My one and only complaint is not the meta, but the players asking for it. Because people copy what a youtuber said, and blindlessly follow that thing without thinking at all for himself. Just as I was raiding with a condi(longbow+ sword/torch for the ones that don’t remember the burnzerker meta) berzerker warrior that was running FULL BERZERKER/ASSASSIN gear, because that’s what he understood from Nike’s video on warrior raid builds. That’s most of the raiding community right now and it’s annoying af.

AnariiUK.7409:

Raizen.7981:

You got good points but so has he. Indeed, trying harder is the only option he has. But I understand his complaint, since I’m in the exact same place as he is. My main is a thief. I geared it to the max. It’s the class I love and enjoy playing. Yet, since we’re not a demanded class, I can spend hours till I find a LFG that will take me. Yes, I’m Eternal. Yes, I’m at 166. Yes, I hate the fact that I have to spend hours in the LFG window to find a raid spot. I still do it, but I don’t enjoy it, at all.

A little unrelated to the topic of this thread, but have you considered using your gear from thief to almost fully gear a power based druid? You’d have the armour, trinkets and a berserker staff ready to go. So you’d just need a sword and an axe and you’re good to go.

Understandably it might not be a class you enjoy as much as thief, but you’ll hopefully have much better luck searching for groups as it’s pretty standard to bring at least two DPS druids these days.

Don’t get me wrong, I clear the raids weekly, with my thief. I do have raid-ready herald,ps,temp and dh. I just don’t enjoy playing them. I just hate waiting so much to get a slot in a raid, because my class is not FoTM

Sird.4536:

Simple solution, find a guild.

I understand you just found MMORPGs 5 seconds ago, so I’ll be kind and spell it out for you:
Schedules don’t work for everybody
There, I hope I helped.

Vinceman.4572:

I have never said that in particular you belong to those who are getting carried and only raiders are the good ones. But I met a lot of players thinking they were the king of Tyria’s dungeons and fractals wiping around the next corner if an elite mob was only looking at them.
And regarding my daily fractal runs with pugs, it is no wonder that the most experienced and best players with only rare downstates are the ones with “The Eternal” or mastery point numbers way above 100, not to say 163 and 166 (a.k.a. raiders with at least decent succes). Of course, also bad apples with the title (bought raids e.g.) on this side and some good on the other but it’s very common in video/online games that people overestimate themselves so much. MMOs are no exception in this case. It reminds me of the beginning of League of Legends when legions of bronze and silver trash players whining about others being in higher ranked leagues claiming themselves being able to play in higher tiers. Ridiculous! From day to day you picked one up to play with, to check his level, to help and after less than 5 minutes you knew why he was only bronze/silver and couldn’t get out of the bottom trash. That’s it for me in the discussion about being good or bad.

And about your complaint of repetition. Well, it’s the only thing we can advise:
1. Try harder
2. Stop complaining
(3. Become better)

I posted it in another thread: Every player I met that wanted to get in touch with serious raiding has made it. Maybe there are reasons why it won’t work for you. You should reconsider them.
I am no psychologist but your rant about my valid, calm and structured arguments is very enlightening for me why it hasn’t been successful for you till the recent day.

You got good points but so has he. Indeed, trying harder is the only option he has. But I understand his complaint, since I’m in the exact same place as he is. My main is a thief. I geared it to the max. It’s the class I love and enjoy playing. Yet, since we’re not a demanded class, I can spend hours till I find a LFG that will take me. Yes, I’m Eternal. Yes, I’m at 166. Yes, I hate the fact that I have to spend hours in the LFG window to find a raid spot. I still do it, but I don’t enjoy it, at all.

You can’t blame people lacking patience, and certainly can’t brand it on raiders. You just can’t. I organize fractal runs often. DAILY, there’s at least one fractal, where we fail something in the beginning, and literally everyone leaves. I also used to organize farms. Gold farms in the lvl 40 fractal, Shard farms in the level 72 one, etc. There’s always, ALWAYS, that player that joins my party, which is advertised as [long time farm], and leaves after we complete the first run. Dungeons? Oh lord, I’ve had people insta-leave just because the party didn’t knew to hide behind a structure to LoS some trash mobs.

Point is, I know it’s frustrating that it’s hard to find a group, and when you do, it disbands quickly, but really, that happens linearly in every other aspect of PvE.
Again, if you don’t have much time to spend on this game, nor the patience for it, raiding is not for you.

Most runs ask for “those” roles: chrono, druid, tempest. Few others ask for PS and herald(which is because 99% of the players already have raid-read heralds and PS’). But there are still runs that ask for “dps”, which is whatever role, if they don’t specify it. It’s hard for somebody who doesn’t have more classes. Trust me, I know, I’ve been there. My friend list is empty(as in 0 people added), and I don’t even have a guild, so browsing the LFG is my only way to get into a raid. Which takes sometimes hours. TIP: place the LFG-More window in the lower-left corner, that way you can keep an eye on what people need, while also doing other stuff, like crafting, farming mats, doing any open world PvE and so on. Hope this helps

Astralporing.1957:

Raizen.7981:

Baldrick.8967:

Give me large scale pvp fights any day, where at least some thinking is involved on the fly if you want to be any good

Yeh bring me those 100v100 zergs where you spam aoes and hope they die first, so much more skill required

And then a 30-man team with good composition, skill and strategy kills that 100 man zerg, and you realize, that there is in fact a lot of skill involved.

Yeah, and then the leader of the 30-man team reverts back to a regular Saiyan, and attempts to revive Krillin for the 5th time. Meanwhile, you wake up from your bad trip and delete the posts you wrote during your magical journey.

Just no. maybe 70 good players can kill a 100 zerg, but 30 men won’t do it even if those 100 started playing yesterday

Baldrick.8967:

Give me large scale pvp fights any day, where at least some thinking is involved on the fly if you want to be any good

Yeh bring me those 100v100 zergs where you spam aoes and hope they die first, so much more skill required

I took some time to read this thread and I gotta say, so many people are saying raiders are toxic. Which is unfair from a lot of point of views.
I started around 4 hours ago a wing 1 pug. Asked for knowledge about the fights and decent gear. Didn’t ask for gear ping, didn’t ask for LI ping, didn’t ask for titles or other crap. 30 minutes ago we finished it. The raid, even tho we failed a lot at gorse and sab, because many people were not working good under that “last 25% hp pressure”, ended flawless: all 3 bosses were killed with 0 player deaths. Free Eternal title for everybody who did not have it.
But this is what was the best part. Nobody left after we started failing. Nobody started to flame. We just revised tactics, and kept going. This wasn’t advertised as a “fast run”, this wasn’t advertised as an “eternal only – LF 7 TEMPESTS FOR SABETHA”, this wasn’t advertised as “30+ LI” and so on so forth. Just 10 pugs raiding. I can say, I probably had more experience than half of them combined. But I had absolutely no reason to flame them, because I did not ask for a fast 1337 run to begin with. To be honest, with that “elitist” thinking I had, regarding not making them ping gear and LIs, I was pretty sure we weren’t going to make it mast VG.

And here lies the “toxicity” about raids. Somebody unexperienced joins a raid run. The raiders there(or at least, some of them) expect the guy to be experienced(ask for LIs, which our guy links via chat codes). The raid begins, they notice the guy is underperforming, so they flame and kick. Is that the right attitude? Yes and no. No, because it can be done with a lot less flame than it is usually done. Yes, because nobody should be forced to carry you. Especially since many players don’t have a lot of time to play, and in that time, they want to complete goals, not to get stuck somewhere because some random guy is underperforming hard.

When I started playing thief(my main now) I joined a VG pug. I barely knew the mechanics, but I knew about chat codes way before they were posted on the forums, so naturally, I had a spot in the raid. I kittened up bad, kept dying a lot, and they kicked me. I was so frustrated. I remember telling the commander to kitten off in pms. But I look back on it, and I realize I wasn’t fair to those guys. I pulled them down because I thought I was good, and ended up screwing up. They wanted a fast run, and they got an unexperienced undergeared noob that made them lose [maybe a lot of their allocated game time].

Raiding can be a wonderful experience, if lived with the right people. That’s why I say, over and over, raid with people like yourself. They don’t even have to be friends or guildies. Anybody can create a raid squad. Anybody can advertise their run as a training run. In fact, saw more training runs today than actual runs. Raiding is the experience YOU make it to be, not somebody else. After all, you are the one who chooses who to raid with.

Never said finding the right people to raid with is easy, or fast. Is something that takes time, and I understand that many people don’t have it, which can be upsetting, because it feels like the content wasn’t made for them.

Last thing before I go off. Are raids worth it? Absolutely. “How so?”. Simple. Taking down a boss, even for the 5th, 10th or 100th time, with 9 other nice players, after trying multiple times, and finally hearing everybody cheer and laugh on TeamSpeak[or whatever VoIP you use] is still my favorite thing about raiding, regardless of the game I play. I hope my post encourages some players to try raiding, or at least give it another shot.

I love raiding because it makes me work with 9 other people. I only pug them. It’s an awesome feeling when a boss dies after multiple tries and everybody on teamspeak just goes “YEAAAH we did it”. For instance, I just finished wing 1 around 15 minutes ago. VG was boring as kitten, because it was a total faceroll, and we killed it in the first pull. However, gorse and sab were much harder for the group and we took many tries. But at the end, everybody was happy, because after a 3 hour run, all 10 people had the Eternal title (yeah we managed to clear wing1 with a random pug with no player deaths, on all 3 bosses).

Many people I group with(dgns/fractals/raids) call me a toxic elitist. The only things I require in group content is minimum exotic gear with runes, and knowledge about the fights we will encounter. For 50% of the people I run into, this is toxic elitism. For me, I think it’s common sense, and also, respect for the other people that are in your group. Nobody should be forced to carry you if they don’t want to.

I understand the fear of raiding. It’s very unpleasant to have 9 people look down at you for being new, or somebody in the raid yelling at you for screwing up. But everybody can make their own raid squad. Advertise [training run]. I’ve seen many today. Nobody will flame if you’re all beginners. If you have the time to learn the mechanics, and to practice them, just go for it. It’s an “effort” that in my opinion, is rewarded well[again, not talking about loot]

All in all, I think everybody who has the time and the patience for it should raid. Not for the loot, not for the “bragging rights”, but for the joyful experience of successfully completing a hard encounter, while learning to work with 9 other people. If you do it for the fun of it, raids can easily become your favorite thing about this game, just as they are for me.

Yes it is bugged. Be sure you have your inventory weapon. Also, try to use the item right before you get hit. Overall I think it might be the best collection out there. Took me 4 hours to get a precursor that got me like 350 profit on the TP.

MadRabbit.3179:

Raizen.7981:

Do I have to pay you to read my posts before answering me? Oh boy, here we go again

I get it. You think that thieves will never ever find a spot in raid, but there is a lot of other written materials besides your forum posts that suggest otherwise.

No, you don’t get it. I’ve specifically said that you won’t join a raid, unless you’re really really lucky, or have a dedicated group

but most of my friends who do run in dedicated raid groups roll a thief in one of the DPS slots in their compositions.

They have DEDICATED groups, which is EXACTLY the exception I’ve mentio- ah screw it. You won’t read this one anyway

MadRabbit.3179:

Can we use some more improvements? I would agree with that, but this very doom and gloom perspective doesn’t match what I see.

Your perspective matches mine in terms of 90%, except raiding, where it doesn’t, since you don’t raid

But I appreciate you taking the time to try and kitten all over my enjoyment at thief’s clocking in such high numbers in the new DPS meters like I always figured they could with off topic discussion that had nothing to do with anything in my OP. Always happy to enable other people’s soapboxes.

The numbers, again, for the 3rd time, were there, since the winter patch. Also, since we’re talking PvE, and raids are pure PvE, how am I offtopic?

You are offtopic, beause I made a post stating that thieves are the second highest damage dealer at the moment. This is proven and uncontested. You aren’t contesting it, but rather negating it, because it doesn’t matter and you still have a hard time finding groups (which I am sure is true, but not discounting your lovely personality being a factor in that). I never made a post saying we’re best thing since sliced bread in raids now. You are using as an oppurtunity to crawl on your raid’s soap boxes, which I have been divulging in.

I do read your posts. I read what is there and I also read what is not there, which is why I am I getting tired of replying directly them and arguing with you. You are either ignoring details, omitting information or bringing up stuff that’s not contextually relevant to the issue at hand.

I know when I am debating someone who is focused on being right at all costs and not trying to come a fair and balanced perspective of where thief’s are at. You are trying to make your arguments stronger than they are, because if even if we come to some consensus they are bottom tier, we are talking about margins that are so low that they are still competitive for a raid slot.

Look at your break bar arguments, for example. One, you bring up Thieves Guild doing higher DPS than Impact Strike (something I don’t believe is mathematically accurate, but not prepared to argue that point, because I haven’t done testing). Contextually irrelevant, because Thieve’s Guild isn’t being used in the damage rotation above to achieve maximum DPS. Therefore, whether or not you have Thieve’s Guild or Impact Strike on your bar is irrelevant.

Second, you mention Impact Strike is on a 40 second cycle, but it’s a collective 432 points of break bar damage on a 40 second cycle. Now, throw in Fists of Flurry for 200 damage on a 20 second CD that’s part of our damage rotation.

Now, throw in Steal on Goresaval. The monster type is weighted to give you Blinding Tuft to activate the Knockdown in Staff or Head Crack, both of which do an additional 200-250 break damage (can’t remember the actual numbers).

So all together, a Thief can burst a break bar for 832-882 without having to alter their composition to drop abilities that would otherwise boost their DPS. That’s what makes their break bar damage competitive. That’s what makes them competitive for a raid slot, because they have that and high DPS. That’s why my friends take them. And in a world without Slick Shoes, that kind of break bar damage is relevant.

The short cooldown cycles are relevant, because they can split the rotation on Steal and Impact Strike to burst a bar every 20 seconds for 400-600. I don’t know the regen cycles on raid monsters, but on standard champions and legendaries, 20 seconds is enough to contribute high break bar damage to every break bar as soon as it regens to full.

How do you not know all this? I don’t even raid and I know the math on this. You are the expert here, right? That’s where all this condescension is coming from. Why are you leaving this out as factors in assessing what a Thief can bring to the table?

Throwing Gorseval where tempest is 5000% taken over thief because of orb cleansing and incredible soul control made me realize you got no kittening idea what you’re talking about.
And cut the crap with “im reading your posts”. I’ve proved it over 3 times that you clearly didn’t read what I’ve said. I’ll stop reasoning because reasoning implies the other person has a clue about what they’re talking. Please don’t bother replying, I’m leaving your way-off-math thread alone.

Kicker.8203:

Honestly, this guy made thief viable. If it weren’t for his awesome rotation that you can barely believe was made with a human hand, thief could not haven placed 2nd among all the classes.
Also shoutouts to Arenanet for making it rewarding to be a truly good thief player.

I really really really hope this is trolling.
“this guy made thief viable” Nike posted the exact same guide and video over 3 months ago
“making it rewarding to be a truly good thief player” so autoattacking while using a skill every 30 seconds + dodging every 10 seconds is called skill nowadays? Alright

Do I have to pay you to read my posts before answering me? Oh boy, here we go again

I get it. You think that thieves will never ever find a spot in raid, but there is a lot of other written materials besides your forum posts that suggest otherwise.

No, you don’t get it. I’ve specifically said that you won’t join a raid, unless you’re really really lucky, or have a dedicated group

but most of my friends who do run in dedicated raid groups roll a thief in one of the DPS slots in their compositions.

They have DEDICATED groups, which is EXACTLY the exception I’ve mentio- ah screw it. You won’t read this one anyway

MadRabbit.3179:

Can we use some more improvements? I would agree with that, but this very doom and gloom perspective doesn’t match what I see.

Your perspective matches mine in terms of 90%, except raiding, where it doesn’t, since you don’t raid

But I appreciate you taking the time to try and kitten all over my enjoyment at thief’s clocking in such high numbers in the new DPS meters like I always figured they could with off topic discussion that had nothing to do with anything in my OP. Always happy to enable other people’s soapboxes.

The numbers, again, for the 3rd time, were there, since the winter patch. Also, since we’re talking PvE, and raids are pure PvE, how am I offtopic?

MadRabbit.3179:

because you decided before you even got into this that thief is trash tier.

Did you even read my posts? I’ve said thief is an incredible class, I just keep saying that it is bottom tier in raids.

MadRabbit.3179:

You dismiss the importance of our break bar abilities, because all classes bring break bar stuff, even the classes that net significantly lower DPS numbers. You don’t consider the gap that the absence of Slick Shoes causes and has to be filled, that it’s just not extra break bar damage, but the fact that we can not only do a lot of break bar damage, but consistently break bars as our skills cycle so fast and that our ability to break bars uses abilities that are part of our DPS rotation, not causing a net DPS loss when used.

You’re talking palm strike here. Because impact strike is a 40s cooldown that is waaaay weaker in terms of dps than Thieves Guild. Having 1 breakbar skill that isnt a dps loss is in no way that important that it makes thief desirable in any raid.

MadRabbit.3179:

And your main argument is that up until this point everybody wants Tempest, even though the patch has only been out for a couple days, which means we’ve only had brief access to the damage meters to showcase just how competitive we actually are publicly and the impact of the class nerfs hasn’t fully been realized.

You’ve only had brief access for a couple of days. The raiding community had these numbers figured out since the winter balance patch.

MadRabbit.3179:

Even if Tempest still is the most desirable, we will still have a stronger meta build for raids than other classes. Which there is 7 of and 10 slots total in a raid.

We literally have bottom tier meta. Damage dealer isn’t top damage. That leaves venomshare, who’s strenght, as you mentioned, is unknown, but still, 1 possible raid build is in no way a strong meta build.

MadRabbit.3179:

But that’s not the point of the thread. The point is that we aren’t as bad in PvE anymore as people have thought we were and we have some objective data to showcase it.

Again, everybody who reads patch notes and forums knew that thief was strong in PvE since the winter balance patch. If you only figured this out, and are not actually trolling me, then sorry for bashing you, but you seriously need to read forums more often.

MadRabbit.3179:

Your scenarios focus so heavily on the negative

So heavily on the negative? Nah, I’m just stating a simple truth. Every class is the best at something. Thieves? In DD, we have 3 dodges and 2 leaps from vault. That makes a good DD the most survivable class in game. By far. I’m the last man standing in 9/10 of my raids. Problem is, our ability is self-focused, so we don’t bring something to the raid in terms of party utility. Since we’re not the top dps, and we don’t bring something to the raid, we’re hardly a first choice for anybody, in terms of dps dealing. Obviously, this doesn’t happen to dungeons, where our stealth is incredibly useful in many scenarios.

MadRabbit.3179:

consider how non-sensical they are
I don’t even want to debate with you

Well, you couldn’t debate with me even if you wanted to. Any person that throws “non-sense” without bringing a single argument, isn’t a person to be reasoned with

MadRabbit.3179:

Raizen.7981:

Being second DPS while being unable to provide any utility to the party simply means that elementalists will always be picked over a thief. Unless the group is looking for a random dps dealer, or you’re in a raiding guild who doesn’t mind bringing a thief, you’ll never have a spot in a raid group.

Well, one, I don’t raid, so I don’t care.

Two, raids are still only a fraction of the PvE content and don’t offer really anything except the love of challenge; the monetary rewards just aren’t there unless you count Legendary Armor.

Three, even if I did raid, I don’t believe this very negative and absolute statement is true. Keep in mind, I have a 80 elementalist I mained for years and so I am well aware of the differences between the classes. What elementalist doesn’t bring is ways to consistently do damage to break bars, particularly on staff, which thief does due to the physical skills on low CD or low CD basilik venoms with venomshare.

Of course, our break bar damage has always been overshadowed by stuff like Slick Shoes in engineer, which got nerfed, so bringing a thief for break bar contributions is a lot more enticing than what it was before. I am sure time will tell how this plays out with people who care about raids.

Four, wtf? I mean, seriously wtf? We still clock in DPS higher by significant margins than seven other classes in the game, making us very, very desirable in fractals and dungeons and you completely ignore as you focus on the issue of us not being as good as elementalists at the moment? Talk about the glass being half empty.

1) then your post is invalid, since nobody gives a flying duck about dps parses in fractals or dungeons, which are total facerolls
2)good point
3)everbody brings breakbar skills. The PS war 90% of the time runs headbutt. The fact that we bring a bit more hard CC than other classes is totally irelevant in most raid runs, and even if it does actually mater in some well organized runs, that DPS gap between tempest and thief STILL makes tempest more viable, if we’re being total snobs and counting every drop of dps
4)Every.single.kittening.raid.run is looking for tempests. Nobody says LF DD. Everybody either says “need dps” – mostly bad pugs, or “need tempest” – rest of the world. As somebody who has been raiding for a while, my main dd gets raid spots 10 times less than my support PS or my support herald which i both totally hate playing

Being second DPS while being unable to provide any utility to the party simply means that elementalists will always be picked over a thief. Unless the group is looking for a random dps dealer, or you’re in a raiding guild who doesn’t mind bringing a thief, you’ll never have a spot in a raid group.

wrathmagik.3518:

Raizen.7981:

. Black Desert Online? Don’t buy it. You won’t reach level 5.

I started laughing and stopped reading right here!

I reached level 15 in BDO in about an hour.

That was a joke. Seriously, get in a hardcore guild. Every relevant farming area after 50 is dominated by huge guilds. If you try to get close to a world boss you’ll get PKed immediately.

DoctorDing.5890:

So are you saying that you are here because you like it easy too?

I’m currently playing 5 mmorpgs at the same time. I play gw2 because:
a) awesome features. From gliding, fluent combat to quality of life things such as waypoints or store every material in the bank in 1 click
b)this game has by far the most balanced PvP I’ve ever experienced in the past 12 years. Mainly because it’s skill to win, not level&gear2win
c)story is awesome

I’m not fully committed to this game because the casual nature of the game makes gw2 lack any grind whatsoever, and for whatever reason, I need to grind in a game, or I’m not happy.

wrathmagik.3518:

I"m fairly good at games.

Casual? Not anymore. Expect to die. ALOT.

Pick one please. Only one

Mega Skeleton.8259:

Raizen.7981:

reikken.4961:

Raizen.7981:

Dante.8965:

Each class can play different roles

Except thief who is the only class that doesn’t have a spot in raids, and warrior who has exactly 1(one) role.

Thief is great for wing 1, and can do two roles on the first boss. Less good for wing 2 due to increased demand for utility over sheer dps, but you should have no trouble finding a spot in a wing 1 raid

True. Thief is great. But tempest is the best. That’s why every single raid says “LF 2-4 tempests”. I know what I’m talking about, I’ve pugged the raids since they were implemented. Please don’t tell people to play thief if they want to raid. It’s not fair for them.

I’m not disagreeing with you (though I do think thief is fine because of high dps, mobility, and cc, it’s not the best option for first getting into raids), but the justification of “PUGs do it” is flawed, at best.

Thief is not fine because the dps isn’t the highest, and since it brings literally 0 utility, it’s not fine. And my argument “pugs do it” is not flawed at all. This is Gw2. This is the most casual, low skill cap, low dedication, come-and-go game that was ever released. A huge part of the players are unqualified to join a raiding guild(no skills or no gears), or simply play whenever they feel like playing(like I do/did), so having to play the game on schedule is a huge NO. Because if you’re having a raid at 21:00 after a bad/exhausting day, maybe you don’t feel like raiding. But you still HAVE to; so the game starts feeling like a chore, maybe even a second job. Which is why scheduling raids isn’t for everybody. All in all, my pug answer is as valid as it gets.

reikken.4961:

Raizen.7981:

Dante.8965:

Each class can play different roles

Except thief who is the only class that doesn’t have a spot in raids, and warrior who has exactly 1(one) role.

Thief is great for wing 1, and can do two roles on the first boss. Less good for wing 2 due to increased demand for utility over sheer dps, but you should have no trouble finding a spot in a wing 1 raid

True. Thief is great. But tempest is the best. That’s why every single raid says “LF 2-4 tempests”. I know what I’m talking about, I’ve pugged the raids since they were implemented. Please don’t tell people to play thief if they want to raid. It’s not fair for them.

Dante.8965:

Firstly find out which character you like to play the most since it will require some investment in getting into raiding.

No. Don’t ever in hell do this or you’ll most likely end up with a daredevil with 4 legendaries that can’t get into raids cuz it’s not stupidly overpowered like an ele.
Instead, you should find out WHICH of the flavor-of-the-month specs you enjoy playing(if any, this made me quit) => just make a level 1 toon, do the 5 minute intro, take it to HoTM(pvp area), gear/spec according to the metabattle build, and practice the rotation on a dummy.

Dante.8965:

Each class can play different roles

Except thief who is the only class that doesn’t have a spot in raids, and warrior who has exactly 1(one) role.

Gear to get(minimum):
full ascended trinkets: Rings from fractals, backpiece from fractals(google beta fractal capacitor, fairly easy to get), amulet from WvW(25 laurels), earrings from guild commendations(2 weeks should get you both ascended earrings)
ascended weapon(s): have superior sigil(s) on it too(e.g. air,force,or whatever your build uses).
armor: the difference between an exotic(level 80) set and an ascended one is pretty low. You should still have, as a (long?) term goal, to get a full ascended set. However, if you can’t right now, please be sure to be in full level 80 relevant(zerk/cele/whatever you need) gear, with 6x superior relevant(scholar/strength or whatever you need) runes.

Don’t make the mistake to think that you can raid(talking about finding a pug) without playing one of the few demanded classes. I quit GW2 for the exact reason that I wanted to raid, but I had to make 3 extra classes(ps war, dps herald, dps tempest) in order to be allowed to raid, because my main, a daredevil, had no place in raids(even tho I honestly performed better than 99% of the people I’ve encountered). I did not enjoy playing those classes, so I found something else to play, until my main gets some love.

Finding a raiding guild would be a good thing to do, because you’ll probably raid more often. However, having scheduled raids isn’t for everybody. My idea of a “fun time” was logging in and raiding whenever I felt like it, not HAVING to raid at the time my guild master demanded my presence. You figure it out, maybe you’re tired, maybe you just don’t feel like raiding; this can make the game feel like a chore, and that is exactly the opposite purpose of the game.

Performs OK-ish on bosses. Performs bad on trash mobs, because it takes more than 5 seconds to get your burn ticks at a high number of stacks, and in 5 seconds any class will deal 10 times more damage than you(talking about group content).
It’s fun to play tho, and the visual effect are awesome, but it’s at most an OK-ish spec, since the only support you can bring is banners, and even those at the cost of some personal dps.

Thief is the only class that has no place in a raid. In rest, thief is awesome. But don’t expect to raid with it.

Hardest in term of what? You can’t tell me raids are hard, since many guilds got them fully cleared in the first 12 hours. Maybe hard for some people. As well as you can get in a pug with 9 failers, you can get in a pug that will faceroll the raid regardless of your performance. For me hard stuff means something that fully depends on you. Also, on the raid topic, you can get your credit card, buy some gold, buy a raid run and get that eternal title in 60 minutes flat.

I’ve spent this week 4 hours and around 15 minutes in Ascalonian Catacombs(p2 or p3, the one with the boss that requires you to pull kitten in order to break his shield). other 4 guys were f2ps that just started. I can honestly say I’ve never had a raid run last more than 4 hours. Does that make a level 35 dungeon harder that a raid? Hope you see my point

Jumping puzzles without a mesmer will always be the hardest form of PvE for me. Also, getting some of the LS achievements solo. Getting the 3 achievements solo, in one run, at the Shadow of the Dragon(LS2 act4 ending) was the hardest thing that I have done in the game, by far.

Thieves are good as a class. Thieves are the lowest class for raids tho. Why? Because absolutely everything a thief provides in terms of raiding, someone provides it better. DPS? Yea sure, we’re “almost” top tier. But that “almost”(fek k dps difference) is the reason you only see “raid looking for tempest” and never “raid looking for daredevil”. If you wanna raid, thief is literally the only class that won’t get you a spot in a raid unless you’re really lucky

Getting the hero points (250 assuming you tome-d up your toon) can be hard if it’s your first time in HoT(no masteries- probably no experience- probably alone) so it might take you a while. I suggest you’d look for a HP train, or even start one. I know there’s 9(90 points) hero points in VB that are soloable, and require a few low tier masteries(gliding and maybe bouncing- just maybe). There’s also 2 easy ones in Auric Basin, one requires gliding and one requires nothing. There’s also 3 masteries in AB that you should get easy- you only need 1 more person to help you. Talking about Mushroom HP/Arrowhead HP/Tarnished Traitor(opened after battle in tarir meta) HP.
After this, I would run to Dragon’s Stand(skipping TD). All the points there are fairly easy to get.
All in all, this should take you from a few hours to a few days, depending on how fast you can get a HP train group.
Don’t worry tho, getting 250 hero points the second time is incredibly easy, because you already know what to do.

Swagger.1459:

Always common builds and lack of variety.

That’s forced to you by players. Have you seen the 10 [insert whatever profession] raid runs? Please watch them.

In another game I played I never had to wait around for a group more than a few minutes. There were many active roles to play like tank [..] heals

What game? In WoW I was waiting 30 mins for a healer and around 3 hours for a tank. In RIFT healers were easy to find, tanks took from half a day to a few days. Since in both these games you could only kill each boss once/week, all good tanks were unavailable, since they were doing those kills with their guilds, and after tons of hours you would’ve gotten a trash geared tank or a first timer. Please tell me how you never had to wait.

Playing a toon in hard mode in Shaiya(just another mmorpg) meant exactly character deletion in 300s if nobody revived you. And it worked out just fine