It’s official, I just bought my first trap but I’m so reluctant to use it frivolously.
I heard DB loves getting trapped.
Did they ‘fix’ arrowcarts?
No, all they did was make 50% less damage to siege. They are thinking about reducing the traited range but will not do that until they can reset Wxp points.
I just want to ask if this kind of behaviour should be tolerated/allowed by Anet, guilds, servers and players.
By posting kitten of this you gave them exactly what they wanted. These ppl do it for effect and you gave it to them. It’s just a guild name, ignore it.
Edit: Why does the abbreviation for screen shot = kitten
World Ranking should be Account bound.. Still dont understand why its not Accountbound. Making me kitten off. Wish I dont have 8 characters to play with in WvW
I am not sure if it should be account bound but I am annoyed at the fact that I have a hard time playing one of my other 6 classes in WvW because of rank. Maybe this will fix itself over time and give us something to do when we have ranked out one character we can start ranking another.
LOL. It makes no difference if you lower the dmg against other siege when you cannot operate said siege because of AC dmg. What a joke. Many developers make the mistake of pushing players too hard in a direction they feel is where the game should be heading. Just gonna keep losing WvW players with this kitten.
Press 1. Leave the ram. Someone else takes the ram. Profit.
Have you ever been hit by more than 1 AC at a time. 4 of them can do about 4k dps at 3k armor lol. So do you keep rotating in for 1 hit on the ram and move out. That sounds like fun. Right now there is no reason to keep rams in your inventory. It is quite easy to place 4 AC’s that are not able to be hit by AoE, and as long as you always have a defensive treb up, which anyone with half a brain puts up immediately, there is no way to use a ram unless you are able to PvD during off houtrs.
OP if you are only 13 at 6 hours a day you are doing it wrong.
I can get a level a night playing casually for about 3 hours. I haven’t really played for 2 weeks and my level is 40 on one char and I have 15+ an two others.
Everyone side is scaled equaliy by 630 on every ticker where 630 people are in WvW. (but not by 1200 (100 per map and side), which I guess is the maximum capacity of a WvW match)
Since day 1 there has been an issue with “Night Capping” and Anet stated they will do nothing to fix this because they don’t want to take away from a players ability to help their server.
So here’s my theory for a fair solution Why not create some sort of “PPT Cap”?
Now this wouldn’t be as simple as just giving a set cap of say 350PPT, because how often during a fair days playing is a single server 350PPT above the 2nd place PPT. Why?When this “Night Capping” is happening it isn’t uncommon for the server doing it to achieve 600+PPT out of a total of 695PPT. So this server is pretty much gaining their full PPT ahead of the other server(s); While during “Fair” play most servers are within a 100PPT (Ex: Green:235PPT Blue: 230PPT Red: 230PPT) of each other, meaning they are only really gaining 0PPT-100PPT ahead/closer of the other two servers. Possible Solutions 1.A single server can’t gain more PPT than the other two combined.Server “G” focuses server “B” to ~25PPT and leaves server “R” untouched, Server “G” the next day focuses server “R” leaving server “B” untouched to keep that gain ahead. 2.A server can’t gain more than xxxPPT(100PPT for example) ahead of another server. Now if a single server is falling too behind for too long it will actually hurt the “Night Capper” or 2v1 scenario. How?Say this is the current scoring: G:400PPT B:250PPT R:45PPT. Now “G” and “B” are both making 145PPT this will then begin to effect their total points and in turn effect their total WvW Server Ranking. This solution also doesn’t effect a player’s ability to contribute to their server as they can still play and capture points and flip all the empty towers/keeps and get all theirs upgraded peacefully.
xxxPPT could be determined via average PPT data during equal population play time.(I’m sure Anet tracks point gaining data.) “G”=Green “B”=Blue “R”=Red
This is not a problem. Why are people always trying to solve things that are not a problem.
What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?
And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….
Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?
Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….
Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.
This sounds like sPvP to me.
Clearly you don’t have any open world hardcore pvp background as war fronts/spvp instances don’t come close to the world of open roaming competitive teams. Nor does 5v5 s actually happen in spvp. It’s all 1v2s and 1v1s of bunker builds knocking each other around. It’s ok though, keep playing your “general Patton” game and when unchained comes out all the skilled players will leave this care bear centered Wvw land lol. Youll all be left with each other, the zerging mindless community.
What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?
And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….
Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?
Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….
Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.
Sure, data before panic. We don’t have any reasons to fear the Anet WvW balancing team, right? Right? RIGHT? Look what great job they did with the ACs.
I have been. Been playing extensively with ACs since. We’ve adjusted tactics to account for stronger ACs. Apparently not everyone has figured that out yet though unfortunately.
Player tactics have been easy to change. What’s sucked is the fact that they murder siege so fast. After getting used to the damage increase against players, I don’t mind it.
… Which is why I’ve been seeing a lot more flash built trebs taking out the ACs before the rams get placed.
Lol, Who bothers with rams anymore. You destroy their AC’s with a treb they just flash build more lol. I am not sure what server you are on VOLKON but it fails horribly if you are losing keeps to rams. I have been on while we held keeps for hours with nothing more than AC’s. If they built a treb we built a counter and destroyed it, then held the keep with AC’s until the other server has nothing but PvD during our off hours. If an AC goes down you build another until you are AC siege capped. They cant do anything but treb, catas and rams are useless.
You need to give it up man no one likes the AC’s but you. They make the game soooo boring.
Poison is not a high damage ability. Though I really don’t understand how they nerfed confusion but not bleeding and burning.
Bleeding does about 120 dmg/stack/tick. It can last ~12 seconds and is easily applied in stacks of 15-20. You can not avoid the damage
Confusion after the nerf does 150 dmg/stack/tick it is capped at 10 seconds, but usually only lasts 4-5, it is very difficult to stack more then 5 stacks on a person for more then a split second. You can easily avoid all damage from it by not attacking.
Bleeding does 2-3x more damage on average now then confusion, it needs to have a 66% nerf imo.
If you nerf poison and burning, you nerf rangers, engis, eles, and necros. Do they sound like professions that need nerfed?
Yesterday we were defending Durios, so I tried setting up an arrow cart and it got destroyed almost immediately, even though I had set it up to be hidden behind the bridge. It turns out that it was killed by an arrow cart that was closer to Stonemist than it was to Durios. Is this really intended?
I marked where I tried building my arrow cart with a red dot in the attached map, and where the enemy arrow cart was with a blue dot. (The screenshot is not from that battle, I’m just using it to show positions.)
Working as intended. I want to say that traited the AC’s have a 3500 range lol.
Confusion was insane. Reflecting 3k burst at you every attack is just flat out broken.
Now that said, I do find conditions as a whole pretty overpowered in this game but for an entirely different reason. If you look at the state of PvP in this game you’ll find that the only truly viable builds for classes are condition based. this is because conditions require only one true stat to make them work and you’re left with 2 other stats per item to invest in (toughness, vitality, healing power being the usual targets). This has lead to the current bunker meta everyone despises.
The correct solution to conditions is to cut their damage by XX% (30% for example) across the board, but allow them to crit. This will resolve the bunker problem, the overloading of condition damage problem, and would encourage a more balanced approach to character development opening up new builds in the process.
At most you would get hit by 3k once and then you would stop attacking and cleans/or run away or wait maybe not. Were you one of those?? That did not stop attacking and just killed yourself with confusion lol.
11 Stacks of bleed on a condition build can hit for 1500/sec and no way to stop taking that damage without a cleanse. Any halfwit would apply poison first and wait for their opponent to cleanse then hit them with 10+ stacks of bleed and watch them slowly die off as they continued to apply the stacks.
Confusion is only OP if you did not stop attacking, bleed is always OP.
Even though bleeds last longer, have less counters and do more dmg it is ok because I can die while still attacking! Confusion made me stop attacking for 6 seconds to live and that is OP, I would much rather die from bleeding!
lol, but alas, that is how Anet balances things so it is what it is I guess.
The funny thing is if they put a huge red haze over your head and 10+ damage numbers per second while bleed was ticking, there would be 100 threads a day that it was OP.
Confusion was only OP because once in a while people saw a big pink haze with a large number in it and for some reason could not figure out how to stop it from happening.
(Hmmm, I notice that everytime I attack I get hit. I KNOW I will continue attacking until I die.)
Honestly if you died to confusion before the nerf you were a kitten If you die to bleeds, you are a kitten The only difference is if you had confusion you could stop attacking if you cond removal was gone. If you get hit with a stack of 10+ bleeds and your cond removal is on CD all you can do is run away and watch as it kills you and there is nothing you can do about it.
Lol the last time I played(last week I think). Confusion was hitting me for like 100 at most. It is completely worthless now. I just have to laugh when I see a Mesmer glamour field on the ground now, I purposefully run through it over and over because it tickles.
I like the skills system in this game. When I left rift I had a 13 skill rotation…lol. I got sooo sick of that, I just wanted a game that I can relax and play not worry about min/max and ridiculously long rotations. There are not a ton of skills in this game, no huge rotations, no min/max. But you actually have to play, you can’t just stand and spam skills.
I am not the one on forums claiming to have the biggest pvp kitten. You are.
Now either show us a video of your 5v20/5v40/5v60 of an organised guild, then you may have the kitten crown.
Until then
Chaoi
I wasnt talking to you zerging NSP clowns. I was talking to Ruprect.
I have nothing to prove. You came out saying that you can win 2/3/4x your numbers.
I said anyone can farm pugs, that is nothing special there.
You provided a video of you farming pugs. WOW! Sooo pro.
What are u 12?
I understand killing pugs is a joke. Thats why we have been constantly inviting anyone that fights dedicated groups under 10 to t8. You originally said that because we 5 man we couldnt muster the “skill” your “commanders” (LOL biggest joke in mmo pvp history btw) could to run 30-40……In any other video game that doesnt have a AoE cap (which was designed to keep zergers from quitting when skilled players smoked them in under a minute), your “skill” would be laughable. Zergs in any non-failing game have never been the main form of pvp. WAR= Zergfest died. Daoc not zerg fest = 5 years of constant greatness. Rift= Just plain terrible WoW= newcomers way to learn to mmo GW2= Zergfest for rookies. Please dont try to tell real gamers that commanding takes any skill. It just takes more organization than ur used to spending in a video game.
I never said it takes any skill to command. It does however take a lot of good organization, and a good commander does have good leadership skills. As far as game skill, some commanders do and some don’t some just like to lead. I am not sure why that is a joke.
If you like your 5 man groups, great, have fun. I personally like both roaming small groups/ZvsZ and the points meta game. “Real Gamers” lol, now I know your 12. It’s a game man, play it.
WvW achievements are just fine, they might look insane for some people but not so much for others, anyway it’s just numbers, titles. No big deal.
I thing the Dev’s are taking every single complaint to address it for fixing, that’s great but it takes time for each one, the time that might be much more useful to put in something more important, more needed for now.
Lol, fine??? Which are not insane.
Untimate dominator – 250k kills – 500 kills a night = over 1.5 years
Ultimate fabricator – 2500k supply used – 300 supply used a day – over 22 years
Dominator is probably the most likely to get the others are just ridiculous. I could see that being almost reasonable. Most people get no where near 500 wvw kills a day. I would be really amazed of anyone killed more than about 10 yaks a day and used more than 250-300 supply a day.
I also agree this should be low on the list but they are by no means fine.
We are actively working on addressing this. It takes more time than you might think, however, because we also have to make sure to have a solution that doesn’t mess up people who have achieved titles already.
Lol, Someone has yakslapper???? If you killed 100 yaks a day it would take 27 years.
I have a hard time believing anyone has any of those achievments.
I am not the one on forums claiming to have the biggest pvp kitten. You are.
Now either show us a video of your 5v20/5v40/5v60 of an organised guild, then you may have the kitten crown.
Until then
Chaoi
I wasnt talking to you zerging NSP clowns. I was talking to Ruprect.
I have nothing to prove. You came out saying that you can win 2/3/4x your numbers.
I said anyone can farm pugs, that is nothing special there.
You provided a video of you farming pugs. WOW! Sooo pro.
If that is the level of organization of the guilds in T7 LOL. I was not able to see guild names but if that was a full guild group they should just uninstall.
They looked like T2 pugs.
The video was nice you guys looked organized but the people you were fighting were just lol.
I think your lack of knowing how TC functions may be indicative of your not knowing just how crippling finals week + new PvE content cripples TC.
But the opposite is true as well – you have a lack of knowledge of how any other server works period. You see how TC has been affected, I’ve seen how FA has been affected (my own WvW included).
My real point here is that all server get affected by these things – and all typically in the same manner – sorry, no unique snowflakes here.
It was really made evident over spring break time. TC really took a hit for a couple weeks during that time. As I recall that was the first time FA beat us. We came back pretty strong the weeks after that. Now it is finals and the same thing is happening.
At least I am hoping this is the case. I know I will not be on this week for finals. Its an odd coincidence if this is not the case.
3-5 man teams: Some people are a little bit selfless and choose not to help their server I guess.
Lower tier fighting: can your guild leader have 20-30 people on him and out of a 45 min non stop battle (using siege, terrain, flanking, stealth, quick reaction) wipe a non stop 60 man force (T3 Yaks bend)? Which by the way was so much fun, and so many loot bags !
Can your commanders, while outnumbered, wipe away or even push back enemy zergs in T2?
Have any idea how much teamwork and organization this takes? Well not as much as lower tiers need I’ll say that much.
A “commander” leading 40-80 people who are ALL PRESSING 1 -2 SKILLS…….our 5 man uses 30-50 skills EACH in one fight….and win against 2/3/4x our number…..what is your argument for how building siege? coordinating 30 people to press 1 when hit by another zerg? spamming portal bombs and sitting on arrow carts make you hardcore at all…..like i said in previous post, “You carebears don’t even realize what hardcore pvp looks like”
Blah blah blah. If you can produce a video of your 5 man group wiping an ORGANIZED guild group of 20+ I will be impressed.
More than likely you just farm unorganized pugs lol. That is carebear PvP.
People that complain about the ACs are probably just zergling that want to curl up in a 80-man group, take a map and move on to the next map.
Look at who you are talking about:
RG, VcY, Agg, Riot, MERC, VoTF, sIN, DsD, IRON
Hard to call these guilds zerglings that want to curl up in an 80 man group. (Some might have the numbers for that and still usually chose not to e.g. IRON)
I know for a fact that members of big WvW Guilds from Elona’s reach like Anima Immortalis, Aegis, GD, Equinox, Galleon and many more are thinking the same about this joke of a patch. I would bet that our German friends from Kodash like KOA, fx or BOTS are thinking the same.
That is great and I encourage them to all voice there concerns in here because apparently those opposing the patch are now being labeled as a vocal minority.
You are. The one and only complaint I hear from you and your ilk boils down to “It’s not as fast as it was before”. Irrelevant noise.
And when we say as fast = hours before, way more hours or near impossible now.
I think in some tiers fast = 10 mins. In T1/2/3 fast rarely means less than an hour for a T3 defended keep.
You know something, you’re right on that point. I grant you that in other tiers, the difficulty may ramp up in a steeper curve because of this. SoR has been in tier 1 a while so the only viewpoint I get is that of one server with a whole lotta people fighting 2 other servers with a whole lotta people. That probably distorts things as I see them.
Given that I still say however (server population or tier notwithstanding) that ACs needed a huge boost, reducing it to +50% damage versus +80% would be worth trying and seeing if servers in lower tiers can work around that.
Kudos to you on putting forth a reasoned and well thought out argument and not making it “my opinion is better than your opinion” like so many others here!!
Psssst: You can’t return them to pre-patch damage levels however. They then go back to being irrelevant.
That is why I said earlier in the thread that maybe a happy medium would be if a player has the outmanned buff then they get the full 80%buff. maybe if not out manned they drop it down to a 25% buff?
I still see a lot of them being fired from safety?
Weird, cause when I’m defending a tower, I always notice that the first thing the enemy does is run to it and kill any ACs with wall aoe. The only ones that survive are the ones behind the gate on ground level, and those can only fire at the gate. This is also the reason I’ve been recently using catas / trebs more, cause you can actually place those further back where they don’t get killed in the first 10 seconds of the siege.
As long as it’s so easy to take them down with wall aoe I don’t mind ACs being more powerful. Then at least it might be worth firing it that 2-3 times before it’s destroyed.
Traited an AC now has 3500 range. Good luck getting close enough to take them out now.
I’m going to do the stupid thing an try to be reasonable about this.
How about we leave arrow carts as is for a week or two and see how the meta plays out? If it ends up making zerg rushes far less effective and forces players to be smart about how they play WvW… then good, keep the AC Buff. If there are unexpected problems however, then perhaps ACs should be toned down.
Keeps and towers SHOULD be hard to capture. The whole point of building a fort is to give the defenders a rather substantial advantage, no? Knowing this, who in their right mind would walk up and try to PvDoor a fort? It doesn’t matter how many people you have, it only takes one person to drop the pot of burning oil/tar on your head. And boiling tar tends to leave a slight rash.
The problem is how hard should they be to take:
On T8 hard may be 1 hour for a T3 keep
On T1 hard may be 4+ hours of grinding on a keep (hitting walls doors to drain supply, slapping yaks before they get to the keep) just to get to inner.
How long do you think it should take for a well organized group to take a keep from another organized group?
Yeah it’s pretty clear. ACs weren’t particularly useful and didn’t really pose much of a threat outside of narrow corridors like Pang or the paths to the SM Lord Room. Now they actually pose a threat to those in more open areas too (Still contained, but more open), giving smaller groups a better chance of survival.
The problem is abuse. That pic of 12 ACs on one door keeps popping up, and that pretty much says it all. I don’t know how often you’d really be able to MAN all those ACs, or how useful it would be when dealing with multiple broken walls or ranged catas/trebs, but the fact is it’s getting overused.
Underpowered and never useful, or overpowered and abused horribly? Which is worse?
I’ve seen many surprise golem rushes killed by 3-4 ACs on a garrison watergate. I’ve seen many huge zerg attacks on gates either wiped, or driven off by ACs inside towers and keeps (like…MANY many). I’ve seen many zerg-fights with arrow-carts dropped in the middle of the fighting field.
These were all before this patch.
They were PLENTY powerful before when used properly. Now? I have to wonder what in the world ANet was thinking.
To quote a famous line from a popular dungeon: “Your idea is just stupid and won’t work.”
Lol Detha, the best voice acting in any game so far lol
I ran my overly squishy thief in WvW for several hours last night and I did not die to a single arrow cart the entire time.
Shh. Arrow carts are massively overpowered now. One player with an arrow cart can defend garrison by himself now.
What you guys don’t get is 1 or 2 Ac’s are fine and maybe that is all you run into in yur tier. I wonder how many T3 towers/keeps Fractalchaos took while not dying to an AC. The problem is in my tier it is rare that there are less than 6+ AC’s at every entrance. That many Ac’s with everyone on them trated for range is rediculous, you cant even put up a cata. The range is too much matched with the buff.
You do realize if you treb those spots, even if your treb gets destroyed by counter trebbing, you’ve lost 100 supplies and they just lost 150-200?
That keep had 1700 supply and my guess is thier garrison is full of supply too. This equals hours and hours of being able to rebuild at least 6+ of those AC’s and counter trebs. They only have to hit an attacking treb a few times to destroy it. The attackers have to hit the wall 50+ times? So rebuilding that treb to take down the keep wall 20 to 30 times to get a wall down lol
I ran my overly squishy thief in WvW for several hours last night and I did not die to a single arrow cart the entire time.
Shh. Arrow carts are massively overpowered now. One player with an arrow cart can defend garrison by himself now.
What you guys don’t get is 1 or 2 Ac’s are fine and maybe that is all you run into in yur tier. I wonder how many T3 towers/keeps Breytes took while not dying to an AC. The problem is in my tier it is rare that there are less than 6+ AC’s at every entrance. That many Ac’s with everyone on them trated for range is rediculous, you cant even put up a cata. The range is too much matched with the buff.
Well I played WvW for 2 hours last night. In that two hours we didn’t even manage to take a supply camp because going within 10,000 range of any objective instantly resulted in the deaths of 20-30 people from AC’s. It was just zerg vs zerg in the open field and that only lasted for the 10-15 seconds it took for people to build AC’s in the field and then that was over too. After spending 1.5 hours of my two hour play running back from being killed by AC’s me and about 60% of the other WvW players left.
We were able to take and keep some camps and were able to take a tower or 2 if there was no defenders. Trebbing or trying to get a keep was a moot point. You get counter trebbed immediately and you cant turn you trebs in time to kill the counter treb before ours were lost. I guess the idea is to bulid 4 facing each direction so you can counter the counter fast enough.
Yeah it’s pretty clear. ACs weren’t particularly useful and didn’t really pose much of a threat outside of narrow corridors like Pang or the paths to the SM Lord Room. Now they actually pose a threat to those in more open areas too (Still contained, but more open), giving smaller groups a better chance of survival.
The problem is abuse. That pic of 12 ACs on one door keeps popping up, and that pretty much says it all. I don’t know how often you’d really be able to MAN all those ACs, or how useful it would be when dealing with multiple broken walls or ranged catas/trebs, but the fact is it’s getting overused.
Underpowered and never useful, or overpowered and abused horribly? Which is worse?
6-10 AC’s is commonplace in a fully upgraded tower in T2. Almost every tower/keep has at least 6.
I realize that there are many fluid situations from tier to tier, time of day, server balance etc. and it is hard to have a 1 stop solution to meet them all, but today T3 in EB, I got sense of what the new AC design is trying to do
Yaks Bend Overlook and under attack for kaineng. Our keep was decently sieged up and as is usual in the morning we were significantly outmanned by kaineng (no where near as bad as it was with DB). They start attacking our overlook and get through the outer in fairly quick order. Now at first they ran up the ramp to our gate with Golems and rams. At this point our AC’s did a good job of killing the golem and rams, and some players. In the past we simply would have lost overlook fast simply based on numbers
Kaineng being good players regrouped and proceeded to systematically go around the keep, spread out and their engineers and ele’s destroyed all siege on the walls. Yes we killed some while they did this, and yes it took them time to do it. Once they cleared the walls they needed, they set up catapults, knocked down the wall. Instead of charging the lord and dying to remaining ACs they charged up the walls, cleared remaining ACs, then took the keep
So what did the new ACs do. They slowed the normal zerg 2 minute take of a keep, made kaineng do more then overwhelm doors and added some needed strategy to taking keeps vs simple numbers. If it was even numbers or even close we likely would have driven them off which I think should happen. As is we slowed them down but yes they were able to overcome the new UBER ac’s
I still think the ACs need some adjustment, but I can see a sense of what Anet is trying to do
I agree this was the concept. The problem is when your tier is pretty much even and you always have a lot of defenders fully upgraded keeps and towers are near impossible to take now. The only way the new AC’s and all of the other changes work is if one side is outmanned. Even numbers and it makes an already long arduous process that used to sometimes take hours impossible for anyone to do in one sitting.
The AC change is fine if they only apply it is the player who is on it has the outmanned buff.
I think there is just a huge discepency between the tiers here. lower tiers don’t like losing a tower/keep in 2 mins. Higher tiers generally dont have that problem and have mostly big epic fights for keeps that can last hours, T3 keeps/towers were hard to take in the higher tiers before this change.
Personally I have no problem with both zergs and small groups, maybe the solution would be to have the AC’s changes only happen when a server has outmanned buff?
People that complain about the ACs are probably just zergling that want to curl up in a 80-man group, take a map and move on to the next map.
Look at who you are talking about:
RG, VcY, Agg, Riot, MERC, VoTF, sIN, DsD, IRON
Hard to call these guilds zerglings that want to curl up in an 80 man group. (Some might have the numbers for that and still usually chose not to e.g. IRON)
I know for a fact that members of big WvW Guilds from Elona’s reach like Anima Immortalis, Aegis, GD, Equinox, Galleon and many more are thinking the same about this joke of a patch. I would bet that our German friends from Kodash like KOA, fx or BOTS are thinking the same.
That is great and I encourage them to all voice there concerns in here because apparently those opposing the patch are now being labeled as a vocal minority.
You are. The one and only complaint I hear from you and your ilk boils down to “It’s not as fast as it was before”. Irrelevant noise.
And when we say as fast = hours before, way more hours or near impossible now.
I think in some tiers fast = 10 mins. In T1/2/3 fast rarely means less than an hour for a T3 defended keep.
There is no reason to karmatrain, because why would anyone want karma?
Same thing goes for badges and wxp (though now I would like rank 75 to get godmode on AC)
Ya I am sorry i wasted my points on ballistas. Shouldnt take long to get at least range (5 pts) lol on an AC though, that is near god mode just at that.
Yeah, the whole patch was stupid. with all of the changes together it is not even possible to siege a keep anymore. We tried numerous times last night, funny enough we were trying in a relatively small group and it was the zerg that seems to have benefitted from these changes lol. We were not able to treb the walls down as they would just counter treb and because it only takes 3-4 treb shots to kill our trebs, our trebs were gone long before we could turn them to stop the counter treb. We were lucky to hit a wall 3-4 times before our trebs went down.
SO cata the walls you say. I say a traited AC now out ranges a cata and the catas are down in before they are built.
So use rams you say, lol, just lol at that. Basically there is no way to siege a keep anymore unless you have a large enough zerg to rush in and take out the enemy zerg to stop their couter siege.
Thanks Anet. WvW was near empty last night when it used to have a short queue most times. At least I can stand in a tower with an traited AC and get a few bags.
If you ball up in plain sight and wait for them to turn their treb before starting to build, that’s your problem. You only need to know where their treb is, then you can take it out with a treb built behind some obstacle where they don’t have vision or at the least built where their treb is not facing at the moment. Think strategically. They are inside, you are outside. They are confined in a tower, while you basically have the whole map to perform your movements. Just kill their siege, they need to rebuild, kill it again, their supply is gone.
I don’t see any reason to build catapults now, tho :>
Catas by the wall don’t make much sense anymore but building them on elevated terrain gives them extra range that should keep them out of arrow carts just fine.
Oh yeah elevated terrain. There is always some of that near a tower/keep.
I was both wiped by superior arrow carts tonight, and wiped others, and I never once had any fun doing it.
Stop encouraging us not to PvP, Anet.
I timed this last night; I have a level 80 Engineer with about 2400 armor and 24k hit points. He literally stood, /dancing, in arrow rain from a superior AC for 35 seconds before the AC got him down to 30% HP and he had to heal himself. He then /danced for another 17-18 seconds before /laughing and heading back into Bay.
Either you’re not very good at this game, or else you’re exaggerating/lying.
Lol where do you ever only see 1 AC?? I rarely go to any tower or keep that does not have 6+ at an entrance. 35 seconds/6 = 5.8 seconds to near death. With the rediculous range that they now have lol, this is out of control.
I know in the lower tier 1 AC is probably the norm, but in T2 we never come to an entrance that does not have at least 6+ AC’s of which 3+ are nat able to be targeted and desroyed.
If a karma train can’t take your tower then what chance does a guild special ops/havoc team have.
None, and that’s as it should be. A fortified and defended tower should be a major defensive asset for the home BL. A fortified keep should be a tremendous challenge to take, and it should hurt.
The ability to “ninja” a fortified structure was one of the dumbest things in the game, and only little karma addicts are crying over this change.
Wrong, once a server nightcaps all of your stuff you will not get it back. the week is decided on reset night. We were slowly gaining in points until the change went into effect right after we had been night capped, now there is no way to take anything back. They need to really increase the matches to a month if they really want us to take days to get a keep back.
So have any Tier 1 or Tier 2 (I mean the matchups not the keeps – as in JQ vs. SoR vs. BG is Tier 1 NA) keeps or towers flipped since the patch? Is it really as bad as you’re claiming up there?
Things still flip nowadays but only under either of these conditions:
1) Nobody to defend, not a single person
2)HUGE incredible large zergs attack stuff with little to no defenders
Usually however this happens:
people go to tower, see people in tower and leave
people build siege, play some treb pingpong and leave
This is what I have gathered from people still trying to play (in higher Tiers) and from what I can see in T7
This is what it has been like on T2 as well. There is no way to get into a keep anymore. you finally get through outer only to be choked by AC’s and wiped in seconds trying to get to inner. Hills was a joke last night. Try to build a treb it is counter trebbed down and the AC’s you just took out with the treb you had for like 30 seconds are all rebuilt before you get there. No one is even bothering to build anything but AC’s. The worst part is traited AC’s now seem to have more range than a cata LOL. So cata’s are out now too. I was absolutly astonished by the range AC’s have once you are traited. I expected a slight increase not mor than double the original range.
no mesmers are only needed for portals and the nerf of 50 per cent wasnt needed. it nerfed us to kitten!i am up now as i used condition builds and if it needed a nerf 15-25 percent would have done the trick
Hey I’ve heard null field and veil are pretty useful.
Unfortunatly that is all mesmers are good for now and they are extremely rare in WvW now. Lol I got hit by confusion last night and it was hitting me for 65. The only purpose they serve is portals/veil. Unfortunately there are no mesmers in wvw anymore so no more portals/veil.
WvW was the most fun I have ever had in a game. I have never seen it near empty on my server and it was near empty last night during NA prime time. I hope it is not ruined.
Yeah, the whole patch was stupid. with all of the changes together it is not even possible to siege a keep anymore. We tried numerous times last night, funny enough we were trying in a relatively small group and it was the zerg that seems to have benefitted from these changes lol. We were not able to treb the walls down as they would just counter treb and because it only takes 3-4 treb shots to kill our trebs, our trebs were gone long before we could turn them to stop the counter treb. We were lucky to hit a wall 3-4 times before our trebs went down.
SO cata the walls you say. I say a traited AC now out ranges a cata and the catas are down in before they are built.
So use rams you say, lol, just lol at that. Basically there is no way to siege a keep anymore unless you have a large enough zerg to rush in and take out the enemy zerg to stop their couter siege.
Thanks Anet. WvW was near empty last night when it used to have a short queue most times. At least I can stand in a tower with an traited AC and get a few bags.
I like that arrowcarts do more damage to people. Previously, it felt like they were shooting up feathers that gradually tickled you as they fell.
However, I think it does make sense to have AC’s do less damage to siege, while ballistas should keep doing large damage to siege. Golems could even be immune to AC’s, but not ballistas. Thus it becomes like a rock-paper-scissors where everything has a usage.
Also, increased AC range with damage may be too much. I think we are moving in the right direction and will balance out in a few patches. Coverage isn’t completely king anymore!!
Yes this defeinately gave low coverage servers coverage.
Too powerful arrowcarts? No fear , the solution is near. Nightcapping! That’s right , take your guild and preferably few other guilds with you and move to a low tier server playing a lopsided match. Make sure you pick the most powerful of the 3 servers. Wait until it’s dark and voila! No pesky arrowcarts shooting at you while you claw through the empty wooden keep doors.
Glad to be of help.
I like this everyone should transfer to a T6 or less server and there can be 20 – 5 man groups running around capping nothing.
Treb / cata down the wall.
Use treb to take out all arrow carts.
Use SR to stealth a group of 5 in to wreak havoc on the Arrow Carts remaining, giving your zerg enough time to get in there.
Oh wait, what was that? T1 meta revolves around removing as much of the player skill component as possible? Hmm. Tough luck. This change will be awesome in lower tiers.
Yes because a group of 5 is gonna take out 6+ AC’s that are being defended by 50 defenders. You also forget that any wall/door that goes down is now a choke point and anyone with half a brain will build AC’s to cover that breach immediately lol. Do you play this game??
I gotta tell you that there is no way a 5 man group is going to get through any breach in a tower/keep that i am defending. I will have every tower/keep siege capped with AC’s, so will the enemy, they already did before the buff. I’m sorry you guys don’t know how to defend your Towers/keeps and it was so easy to take them before and appearantly even easier now for the lower tiers? I guess you guys never have T3 upgrades?
People don’t realise that the enemy won’t be the only one using arrow carts. Some posts I read make me facepalm a million times over and over and over again. As if you won’t be the one that will ALSO have an arrow cart by your side.
And what’s even funnier is that people complain about zergs. Now something comes that will clear out zergs, and people complain about it.
Grow up and develop new strategies, it’s not the end of the world.
Basically this.
What you don’t understand is that PROMOTES zerging. Since there is no way you’re gonna take a keep with 20-30 people! You NEED the zerg’s supplies to “TRY” and take a keep…..
No it doesn’t. You take a dozen of smart ranged and they’ll have your gate down without you landing one tick of AC on them. Then starve the keeps supply and what do they do? Nothing, they are sitting ducks.
This is why it’s a good change. It disengages this mindless storm the keep with sheer numbers mentality. It promotes more strategy. Every single point talking against this new change can easily be refuted.
-Arrow carts do too much damage? Don’t stand in the circle
-Ballistas will hit you if your out of range of AC’s? Not if your moving they won’t
-Defenders will keep building seige if trebs destroy? Not if their supply is cut off
-Trebs in keeps will just counter other trebs? Build more trebs than them to nullify
-Rams are useless? I agree, build catapults further out, problem solved
-Ballistas will destroy catapults? Not when there is ranged to pick off the operators
-Larger zergs? Possibly, but only the true fools would think larger numbers prevail
A lot can be done by starving the enemy’s supply. It adds a whole new dynamic instead of allowing yaks to just wander to their destinations as if they were on a leisure sunday walk. It also adds a dynamic where it’s beneficial to start guarding supply camps.
Have you ever tried to take a T3 keep with the lords room fully sieged up with AC’s. Bay will probably be the easiest, we were only able to defend Bays lord room for like 4 hours before, it will be sooo much easier now. Hills, we could keep ppl out at the choke to the lords room for a few hours before with nothing but AC’s. Garrison LOL. 10 AC’s in the 3rd floor, before the buff I have been in 3 way battles that went for many hours, 2 way battles lol, hours. 3rd floor with 10 AC’s and You shall not pass. Can’t wait to see some vids of Garry defense.
So the easiest keep to take will probably look something like:
Spend a few hours bleeding supply, stopping yaks.
Spend another hour or so getting through outer.
Another couple hours to get through inner.
And any where from 1-6+ hours trying to get the lords room clear.(I actually don’t think it will ever get this far).
We will start seigeing keeps in shifts. Sounds Fun.
Technically a necro could fear someone for at least 6 seconds by using 2 skills. How is that any different that confusion.
You can’t burst yourself to death in 5 seconds because someone Feared you.
I dunno, I thought it was a strange change too. Confusion builds were really interesting, but I guess there was too much QQ about them.
They probably didn’t like it that Engineers still hate turrets after multiple huge buffs, so no Confusion spike for them now! Bad Engineers! Hit with Nerf Paddle!
You are unable to attack for that time. People are complaining that you cannot attack while you have confusion, you cannot attack for longer if you are feared. How is that different. With confusion at least you could remove it, fear is a garaunteed 5-6 seconds of no attacking if traited and runed.
