Guild Wars 2

Another thread about this…
The whole cooldown nerf was a complete fail. The devs lied when they said that it would count blinds/dodges/blocks as hits. I think most of us saw it coming though. Everyone already knew that when your attack gets blocked/dodged while in stealth you stay in stealth.
Fix that stupid bug and you get 2 mechanics fixed at the cost of 1.

I think it’s because the original Flamestrike was instant(I think) and they didn’t change the animation. It looks weird and feels weird on all races.
You probably shouldn’t be casting it anyway since the damage on that thing is terrible.

Time is money. Nothing is ever free.
If those people had sold their mats instead of using them for ascended weps they would be a few hundred gold richer.

2v2 really sounds fun to me but Anet will never release something like that without a ridiculously detailed map(or a few, and we all know how long that’s going to take) that almost no one is ever going to notice. I personally don’t need so many objects, items and small realistic details on my PvP maps.

Dirame.8521:

Wryog.5073:

Sounds kinda meh with the dumbed down stat customization and min-maxing in sPvP.
But if that form of PvP is your thing then have fun with it.

So what you’re saying is, there’s no min-maxing in WvW?

There is. What I meant was that I want more precise stat distribution. Sorry if my post sounded confusing.

Gandarel.5091:

Wryog.5073:

Gandarel.5091:

style.6173:

Gandarel.5091:

So I think it’s official, Zerg vs Zerg is considered GvG. I don’t think 20v20 can be considered GvG or PvP. I think GvG would deserved an own gamemode and a ladder, but with this, the opportunity has gone away. It should be the PvP version of guild mission.

Thoughts?

I will never call that thing GvG.

Stop trying to define GvG yourself. GvG is two guilds who agree how many people should fight and then go and fight. If they want a small number, fine. If they want 20v20, fine. There are no rules on numbers.

The problem is that’s not even PvP. In a 20v20, does individual skill matter at all, Can you watch out for a mesmer raising up his gs summoning a berserker? No. You go spam AoE skills with your PvE build and then hope for lucky crits. You can’t do anything.

And GvG was defined in the GW universe nearly 9 years ago.

And PvP was defined way before that but you still use that wrong.
Hint: it means “Player(s) versus Player(s)”. Anything from 1v1 to ganking low levels in other games is PvP. It never meant “fair fight”, “skill-only stuff” or “esport material”. Stop putting your own meaning on words.

But in this case it means zerg vs zerg, since the individuals don’t matter, only a single mob.

They actually do in a more even matchup. Replacing a bunker guardian with a bunker ele has proven this in my guild’s fights.
And it still doesn’t change the fact that PvP has nothing to do with skill level. If you think that ganking low levels in other games(still PvP, there’s whole servers just for stuff like that and they’re called PvP servers) is skilled then I really can’t explain this stuff to you.

Sounds kinda meh with the dumbed down stat customization and min-maxing in sPvP.
But if that form of PvP is your thing then have fun with it.

Gandarel.5091:

style.6173:

Gandarel.5091:

So I think it’s official, Zerg vs Zerg is considered GvG. I don’t think 20v20 can be considered GvG or PvP. I think GvG would deserved an own gamemode and a ladder, but with this, the opportunity has gone away. It should be the PvP version of guild mission.

Thoughts?

I will never call that thing GvG.

Stop trying to define GvG yourself. GvG is two guilds who agree how many people should fight and then go and fight. If they want a small number, fine. If they want 20v20, fine. There are no rules on numbers.

The problem is that’s not even PvP. In a 20v20, does individual skill matter at all, Can you watch out for a mesmer raising up his gs summoning a berserker? No. You go spam AoE skills with your PvE build and then hope for lucky crits. You can’t do anything.

And GvG was defined in the GW universe nearly 9 years ago.

And PvP was defined way before that but you still use that wrong.
Hint: it means “Player(s) versus Player(s)”. Anything from 1v1 to ganking low levels in other games is PvP. It never meant “fair fight”, “skill-only stuff” or “esport material”. Stop putting your own meaning on words.

alcopaul.2156:

Guild versus Guild is basically Guild fighting another Guild. So if a basketball team is replaced with a guildname, then those two teams, now guilds of 5 each, are GvGing by playing the basketball mechanics.

This.
Stop feeling offended by something’s name.
GvG can be anything from 2v2 team deathmatch to racing(pretty sure that’s somehow possible) and PvE score/time comparing as long as it’s done with guild groups.

IMO a full healing class is absolutely terrible.
Having healing builds for multiple classes isn’t that bad.
Making a healing build available for every class is good. I haven’t seen any MMO (or single player game) that has actually done that.

Oooor they could just buff most of our 1 attacks to be more useful? Maybe make 30 traits that make your 1 attack in X attunement more powerful?

With that cooldown it should be a full PBAoE IMO.

Rainshine.5493:

But thanks for the advice. I might play around with higher DPS for dungeons. Out of curiosity, what 2 air traits would you take in your proposed D/D build?

Zephyr’s Boon(swiftness+fury on aura) and Bolt to the Heart(+20% damage vs enemies with less than 33% HP).

It might turn out to be a good ability if we get some buffs to our condition traits and get some more conditions. For now it’s really not that useful compared to our other options for stunbreakers.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Bismuth.3165:

Professor Sensei.2941:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nNEDzKgt1c

My buddy made this…explain why I don’t see all of you running this kitten?!?!

erm… me spamming lightning whip with my ele in dungeons does more damage than this, I do 8k damage per second, that’s a lot more than what’s shown in the video.

SSSSSSSNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZEEEEEEEEEEE

Sorry, im allergic to bs.

In dungeons you can really get a ton of damage by just spamming lightning whip. 2k+/attack is easy to do, I’ve done it on the dummies in LA(that you can’t even crit on) without any food/stacks. With those your total DPS on 3 targets should be over 20k.

If you’re doing WvW get a staff, some berserker/soldier/knight gear and spec 0/10/0/30/30(cleansing water). Follow the commander, drop your water fields/statics on zerg clashes and you should be ok. Edit: if you really want to use daggers then you shoud still get some more crit gear and use 0/20/0/20/30 or something similar. I’ve tried going tanky but it really wasn’t worth it and the support I could do was outshined by guardians.
For dungeons get full berserker(or throw in some soldier if you’re feeling too squishy) and use lightning hammer/fiery greatsword. You should get good dps as long as you can keep yourself alive.
Edit 2: why did editing make a second post instead of actually editing? O_o

I used to play a S/D ele in WvW for roaming(fresh air). I had decent HP(17k), good armor and nice dps stats(mostly ascended of course). The burst was enough to kill almost anyone within the first rotation, if that didn’t happen I could keep up good sustained damage. I rarely lost 1v1.
Then I tried sPvP with the exact same build and I instantly noticed the huge lack of crit damage required to make the build work. My burst was low, my sustained damage was nearly 0 and I felt like a shadow of what I was in WvW.
In sPvP I really don’t see any possible good builds that aren’t on a huge cooldown. That automatically makes them bad because of the downtime. The “standard” fresh air build (0/30/0/20/20 or 0/30/0/10/30) is terrible. Our bunker builds are bad when compared to other classes. There is no real working condition build. We’re left out of every possible role.
The “Jack of all trades” design is a huge failure here because everyone can do everything just like the elementalist but with less abilities. Take a S/D thief for example: they can have CC – infiltrator strike, basilisk venom, devourer venom, traps(lol… yeah traps and venoms), they have better damage, better gap closers, they also have some(mostly useless like ours though) conditions, they can selfheal(like every class in this game), they can run away better(stealth and shortbow for example), group support(shadow refuge… yeah it also needs a nerf xD) and they have better armor(not by a lot tbh but still higher base armor). They can do everything like us(except for the 1-2k AoE heals on a huge cooldown? very useful…) but they can do some stuff better. It’s like that with every class. Every class has some damage over time, direct damage, survivability, team support, CC and debuffs. What makes the ele the “Jack of all trades” when everyone has everything the ele has while they are allowed to do some things better than us?
The class design is flawed. It would’ve probably worked in an MMO with the trinity but here? It’s a complete miracle that the conjure damage still hasn’t been nerfed and we’re actually the top group DPS in PvE. Maybe the devs still haven’t noticed that…
The description of the class on the site would fit the game more than what they tried to turn it into. In case anyone’s forgotten what it is:
“Elementalists are multi-faceted spellcasters that channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.”
That last part is really not true in any form of PvP. Getting any decent damage requires spamming multiple spells and using instant casts while casting other abilities. The only reason that that is true about PvE is that you can stick mobs inside walls and use fiery greatsword to get out some great numbers(even lightning hammer’s single attacks aren’t so high, it’s the spam, AoE, blasts and blinds that make them so good).
Too bad that the devs never take any ideas from the class forums. I’ve seen some great suggestions that would bring a lot of build variety to elementalists.
I guess we’ll all just wait for the next balance patch and see what happens then. I just hope that we don’t get a necro patch v2 for eles.

I tried this in sPvP today:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoNhEmiboR5GQIFMhxDNwD6wyjZIHsBA-TkAAzENpay1kpJZT2mGVM7A
Almost good. If we had any actually useful elites(ours need to be deleted and remade from scratch, they suck badly) it might just work.

The good part is that I can now sit afk next to a point and not worry about getting killed because people are going to be too busy trying to get the buff off my server to notice me.

Aren’t elementalists actually top dps in a group for dungeons ATM?

Fresh air S/D with full berserker has gotten me pretty close in duels. However I tried that only a bit after the fresh air patch(I was still bad with it too :P) so I have no idea if that’s still possible.
I wouldn’t really expect to beat a warrior with a lot of toughness and vitality though, you probably won’t be able to burst that down before he starts healing.

Assuming that you’re talking about 20v20/15v15: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQFAWhEmmbwR5QlDAkHv4CLiCWUeMzO2A-jUCBofAoNIkFAZPFRjtNoIas6aYKXER1mzCqW0KzSB80YA-w
If you feel fine with lower HP you can swap out some soldier pieces for berserker/knight.
Most of the healing stuff scales pretty badly. Regen and small heals really aren’t a big deal without huge amounts of protection/armor.
Drop Meteor Shower→Tornado. Going into a water field with Tornado also causes multiple healing bolt finishers which is useful.
Also the build might work with vigor+regen in the 10-point water trait slot.

TGSlasher.1458:

So, do any of you actually use the focus? Gale (air 5) is one of our stronger kds, it has a long kd duration, you can use it back wards (hitting a foe behind you) and it is a channel / cast so you can use it on a thief as he is about to stealth to prevent him spamming 2 into smoke field. It is quite a powerful single target interrupt.

The problem with that ability is that it has a ridiculous cooldown for what it does. Updraft has a lower cooldown, is AoE, makes you dodge, gives you swiftness and the only – compared to Gale is the range.

I’ll just mention this again: You can still use support abilities in any gear. Healing and condition damage scale terribly for PvE.

Conncept.7638:

colesy.8490:

arjeidi.2690:

You want skill to happen in your dice-roll-damage game? LOL.

There are other genres if you want skill to matter. RPGs isn’t one of them.

What dice roll?

Provided no factors change, if you attack something you’ll hit it for the same amount repeatedly.

Umm… not true, weapons have a base damage which is ‘rolled’ between a high and a low whenever you use a weapon ability. However, a dice roll is not an accurate comparison, as the high and low of the weapon damage roll varies by less than 5%.

Honestly the bit of RNG is so meaningless they could just remove, making no major changes to the game, and most people would probably never notice.

I think he meant crits.
Don’t people usually have 100% crit chance with fury now? That’s at least for PvE which is what this topic is about. Any dice roll result with a 100% chance isn’t really a dice roll.

Harbinger.8637:

All I’m seeing is a rant. You are upset that Anet is killing off GvG in WvW, so you come here to vent your anger. You try to push your own agenda across with “deathmatch” so you can GvG in PvP, which you can do with custom arenas, but you don’t like the limited stat choices. Then you proceed to insult everyone here.

You think anyone here or Anet is going to take you seriously? No.

We CAN’T do it in custom arenas. You can’t set them to over 10 players/team. Stop posting that same argument over and over because it’s wrong.

Harbinger.8637:

Also I don’t see how conquest is a dying mode. They’re adding it to WvW with the bloodlust update. If it was a bad mode they wouldn’t add it anymore.

Right, everyone absolutely loves conquest. I even have “CONQUEST!” posters in my room.
I’m pretty sure that a large part of my guild quit sPvP because it’s conquest(including me). Almost everyone I asked that quit sPvP mentioned that it’s extremely boring because of conquest/having only 1 game mode. Right now my guild does GvGs and WvW for training.

Avead.5760:

Focus completely lacks damage..Like theres no damage in it at all.This needs to change a bit.It can still be a defencive weapon.
But that earth 5..Look at it from an outside view for a bit.
Mist form requires a utility slot,locks you from your skills,lasts 3 sec and has 75 sec cd
Obsidian flesh might not stunbreak but lasts 4 sec,doesnt klock your skills,has a 50 sec cd and is a freaking weapon skill out of your 20 skills
The exact same comparison can be done between cleansing fire and magnetic wave.
Something is really really off here.Perhaps their idea of balance is super strong skills make up for incerdibly weak almost nonexistant skills like fireshield and flamewall.
In any case the weapon is fun but currently imo you should only run it with high offencive builds and fresh air so that you get your damage output in a decent level
The difference between pre fresh air focus and now is massive in terms of viability of this weapon just cause of the damage increase

Yep, damage scaling on focus is terrible. Most of the abilities need their cooldowns halved to make up for what they do and flamewall’s burn should be increased by at least 400%.

We’d need more traits like that tbh, 1 per spec still wouldn’t be enough to consider single attunement specs in PvP.
Would make elementalists kitten OP in PvE though

If single attunement traits were stronger and there was some sort of punishment for swapping, we could see single/dual attunement specs.
That’s why I really like the fire one. Selfheal in fire+punishment on attune change. Add a CC trait and pure fire build in PvP might just become viable.

Yep, legendaries should require more farming. Hard content is for elitist scrubs!
I really hope that no one gets offended by this before realizing that I was being sarcastic.

FirstBlood.7359:

Wryog.5073:

Aaand there’s our first GW1 comparison for the thread! Thank you for pointing out something absolutely pointless that no one really cares about. It’s like comparing custom arenas to arenas in WoW – absolutely pointless as they have nothing in common. Using the same name means nearly nothing.

Thanks for your thoughtful comment! Do you know that the meaning of words depends on their context? In most other games “GvG” could be the arbitrary label for any kind of group PvP. In Guild Wars, however, the use of GvG has a long history. ANet built the first game and its lore around the idea of GvG. In GuildWars2 players constantly demand an implementation of GvG. That being said, you cannot separate GvG from GuildWars.

Right, GW2 needs to be a 100% copy of GW1 with better graphics.
Guess now we need to remove jumping, remake 90% of the game mechanics and put in everything that was in GW1.
It’s a different game. Get over it. Just because they share the same setting doesn’t mean that the games should be the same. The conquest-only sPvP should’ve made that clear by now but I guess it hasn’t.

Aurust.8961:

Wryog.5073:

It’s usually either a)people who are loyal to their server or b) people who can’t let go of GW1.
I really don’t understand the first type since a huge part of the server doesn’t care about WvW. You don’t gain anything from winning and the scores aren’t affected as much as skill as WvW population and coverage. But hey, I guess it’s those people’s “thing”.
The second type really need to realise that this is a different game. For starters the professions have nothing to do with GW1, the PvP system is different, there’s only ONE sPvP game mode and there’s WvW. By now it should be obvious that GW2 isn’t a copy of GW1 and Anet don’t want it to be one.

" You dont gain anything from winning" ? Do you have ANY clue whatsoever just how super sweet a 20% gathering bonus is? It is sooooo sweet, like raspberry chocolate ice cream being served by mila kunis while she is nekked bruh.

Wow, how could I forget such an extremely useful bonus?! I’m sorry, I don’t know what I was thinking when I posted that

FirstBlood.7359:

Calling the mindless WvW clusterkitten “GvG” is hilarious for everyone that played GvG in the first GuildWars.

Aaand there’s our first GW1 comparison for the thread! Thank you for pointing out something absolutely pointless that no one really cares about. It’s like comparing custom arenas to arenas in WoW – absolutely pointless as they have nothing in common. Using the same name means nearly nothing.

I still think it’s just a problem with being understaffed. Not enough people to make the changes and test them probably.
Still, we can hope that maybe some day they will get rid of the 4 teams for casual PvE updates(living story) and put them to work on something to really change the game.
And what you suggested looks like it would really change the game for elementalists.

The OP really didn’t specify what he was comparing. So I’m just saying that overall GW2’s engine is better than TOR’s simply because it would lag the moment that there were more than 16 people fighting.

Wait, why were they talking about PvE when they mentioned elementalists swapping? In PvE it’s usually either a)You’re in a farm zerg and you stay in air with a dagger main hand to tag everything and then don’t really care because nothing is really challenging or b)You’re doing a dungeon in which case you just pop a lightning hammer and attunement swapping is mostly useless.
It’s a kitten SotG for PvP balance. Less PvE talk!

Earth spells are instant+25% more damage+Churning Earth=huge qq on forums.
Definitely would be funny to see
That fire trait looks interesting. We should have more traits/abilities that have a bigger + compared to others but also with a -.

ATM I’m just wondering why I can’t +1 a post more than once…
Maybe if anet get more people to work on classes we could see these changes but right now all of those suggested changes look like they’d be too much for them.

Still not as bad as TOR’s engine at least. If I remember correctly, they used some unfinished engine that was in beta in 2008.

It’s usually either a)people who are loyal to their server or b) people who can’t let go of GW1.
I really don’t understand the first type since a huge part of the server doesn’t care about WvW. You don’t gain anything from winning and the scores aren’t affected as much as skill as WvW population and coverage. But hey, I guess it’s those people’s “thing”.
The second type really need to realise that this is a different game. For starters the professions have nothing to do with GW1, the PvP system is different, there’s only ONE sPvP game mode and there’s WvW. By now it should be obvious that GW2 isn’t a copy of GW1 and Anet don’t want it to be one.

Less than 17000 people have tried out soloqueue.
Somehow I doubt that the reason for that is all because of balance.

Wait, someone ran a condition build in PvE? What happened to everyone running zerk gear?
BTW for PvE condition dmg builds to be useful they need to rework the way conditions work. Nerf/buff really won’t work unless they do some crazy PvE-only buff like increase all condition scaling by 500% or increase all mobs’ armor to 3k+.

So you’d have the HP of a dungeon boss but without the damage. Buff please!

Dr Acula.3496:

To the person who was asking about the GvG forum it already exists on here. Its been moved a million times by the devs since they hate us but here is where it ended up.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/events

That’s a community event thread. What will happen when the mode goes official?

Makes me wonder where the GvG forums will be and if they’d make them at all.

You have to admit that it really fits the current meta :P

Not a bug. Stealth works the same way but it’s actually good for the person in stealth.
They probably didn’t bother to try out how their hit check works before making a huge nerf.

Read what I quoted. Maybe they got over the esports hype now and are trying out new stuff.

It’s fun. You have to pay to get to max level warzones(as far as I know) and to wear the best gear and you’ve got a limited amount of warzones/week but it was pretty fun last time I tried it.
SWTOR has potential in its PvP but unlike GW2 the devs (Bioware) probably aren’t even thinking of using it. Maybe they’re being held back by EA.