Guild Wars 2

On the topic of Necromancers stripping boons:

If a Necro has a boon-strip on their bar, they are missing a stunbreak or a defensive cooldown (such as Well of Darkness). This means they can be equally CC’d into oblivion and anything with a stunbreak has the upper hand.

If a Necro doesn’t take a boon-strip, this means they have more staying power but anything with stability can overcome their damage.

Just a couple of notes I’ve thought of while playing my Necro. Oh, and most people don’t avoid S. Wall, and that’s something people will have to learn over time.

It’s highly amusing seeing Tier-S Necromancer. It seems like there are people who are still in shock and need to understand what’s happening to them.

30/20/10/0/10 is the build I came up with and use. The burn is great with bleed-bursting and chain fearing.

I really try to be a sneaky Necromancer. I really do.

“I can’t press my attack button and make him die! This is a horribly designed encounter!”

Really, guys? Really?

I’m very excited to see where they take Necromancer in the coming months.

I think they’re catching onto the idea that Necromancers are not built for burst but also need the mechanisms to last in a fight since they cannot run away. I don’t believe we need mobility, like they said, as I play a Necromancer to be a juggernaut and to put pressure on opponents over time.

I don’t need to be zipping around the battlefield, but I do hope we get some more staying power in team fights.

Skill, to me, is mostly this:

Time invested + ability to learn + ability to coordinate with others.

Most things in GW2 are a culmination of these things together, be it tPvP, Dungeons, or WvW. The only thing holding someone back is their ability to learn and (for PvE) time invested.

I don’t see the skill as OP in any way. It’s not an “iWin” button, and it’s very situational.

If a Guardian is spam-applying boons to himself, then yes, being able to reverse all of those into conditions is a good play and takes timing and attention to enemy boons.

One time in a reasonable fight are you able to negate one opponents buffs and try to turn the fight in your favor. Normally, it’s only used to flip a couple of crucial boons over into conditions. This also only works on professions that stack boons and is only super effective on Guardian because of SY.

Aside from Guardians, it’s not going to wreck anyone normally. It can debilitate and give an advantage, but so do a lot of other skills.

Thanks for sharing!

I’ve been doing this for quite some time on my Necro, and it’s a wonderful pressure combo. Smart players understand what just happened and cleanse immediately which makes a follow-up Epidemic hard to land, but it’s still an effective tactic.

I use a somewhat odd build (0/20/10/10/30) to pull this off. It’s a variant of a Terror build, but I incorporate Soul Marks and either 5-sec CD Death Shroud or stability shroud.

For a Necro, I find that any bleed duration is wasted on anyone with a cleanse, so efforts are best put elsewhere and that 30 points in Curses isn’t mandatory. So, 20 in Curses for Terror plus Master of Corruption or Weakening Shroud is all you need most of the time.

30 points in Soul Reaping is a preference for me, and taking the 5-sec DS trait is also something I prefer. I like to be very tanky, and being able to flip in and out of DS to absorb hits is something I value greatly.

Overall, everything they’ve done about farming makes sense.

If something is the obvious go-to choice for farming because it gives more than the average amount of loot, then it’s an exception to the game design. All parts of the game deserve to be viable, and that means making sure all parts are as equal as possible to make them so.

“Why do they hate farming? I want to farm. Don’t impede that!”

You can still farm, definitely. They’re just making sure it’s not more beneficial to farm one place over all others because of drop frequency or some other mechanic. It’s fair, and it makes sense. You’re still able to farm to your hearts content.

Contrary to those who say hostile enemies can see a commander tag, they can’t.

They can, like in WvW, see the buff on your buff bar but not the actual blue icon.

I’d actually be happy with something like: “Death Shroud now heals you while in use.”

That would give bunkers and condition builds a tool to try to outlast, and it would give direct damage builds another mechanic to mess with and balance with the current life leeches.

Bhawb.7408:

“Classes that can’t prevent a stomp” I’d argue Necros have very high access to stopping stomps, since boon corruption/removal will negate stability stomps (same as thief stealing stability then interrupting), and every single Necro carries an uninterruptable, near instant cast interrupt; Doom.

Also, you say “viable” builds. Are you meaning the condition build that everyone and their mama knows about, or are you actually looking at all necro builds (I’ll answer for you, its the first). The problem with Necromancers right now, is that our well known role of Condi pressure has been taken by Engis. We don’t have the ability to roam either. But by far our biggest weakness is just that people aren’t creative. People don’t take time to theory craft on a team level except with the Meta in mind.

Necromancers will continue to be low-tier as long as people refuse to look past Condi pressure as their sole niche. When there are enough people and teams that are finally comfortable enough to really start trying to try non-Meta builds, they will find Necromancers have a variety of Niches to fill in team comps.

I think more of what it is, is new Necromancers looking to get into PvP expect to be as viable in a solo hotjoin as they can be in a team setup. When they see that this isn’t the case (as in, it’s harder for a Necro to do well solo compared to other professions) they reroll something that has a stronger place in both hotjoin and tPvP metas. Something that might be easier to use, or easier to do well with, or simply more viable.

Necro is a great profession, definitely. This, however, doesn’t show a lot of times to those new to it or those getting their feet wet in PvP. Many people play solo and even more do not partake in tPvP because of this.

To do anything other than conditions as a Necro is hard without a team to support you, so many Necros try it once and give it up once they realize they could do the same task, more easily, on another profession.

The thing that still bothers me is the idea that Ranger, specifically this BM build, hasn’t changed much since launch, but now people think it’s OP.

I don’t get it.

Oh wow, that’s unfortunate and quite unfair. I never knew Dragon’s Tooth didn’t require LoS. I don’t see how this is considered legitimate when every other skill that was similar to this was made to require LoS.

Only time will tell, though. Hopefully this gets put in line.

lettucemode.3789:

Zeke Minus.5720:

All of the things you listed are items of cosmetic or little necessary value. They do not restrict or empower and are purely for convenience.

You’re right. And that’s why it doesn’t cost anything to play on a custom arena. Owning a custom arena and being able to change its settings, on the other hand, IS purely for convenience, does not empower the owner of the arena nor restrict non-owners of arenas, and has little necessary value because – remember this crucial fact – you don’t need it to play PvP!

By your own definition, owning a custom arena is not a feature, it’s a cash shop service.

Ahh, actually, I think there was a misunderstanding with how CAs were being said to work.

There are servers that are empty that nobody owns and can be played on without stipulation, and I thought they were getting rid of those in favor of a system fully powered by players and gems.

Now that this is not the case, you’re right, a CA is definitely a convenience and not a requirement to play.

lettucemode.3789:

Zeke Minus.5720:

See, the thing that gets me is this: No other feature of Guild War 2 has a cost restriction other than the actual game itself.

There are plenty of things in GW2 with cost restrictions, take a look at the stuff in the Gem Store. Black lion chests and keys to get unique and rare skins, black lion salvage kits so you’re guaranteed to get your rune back, on and on and on. Owning your own custom arena is like one of these things – a nice side feature, but it doesn’t prevent you from playing the game or give you some kind of advantage.

Once they start charging us $5 to enter the mists, you’ll be right.

Features.

The BLTC Gem Store is a service that was understood to be a cash shop service. No feature of the game (feature as in, aspect of the game that is available to play) costs money to take part in.

If they charged for entering WvW, this would make more sense. If they charged per Dungeon, this would be rational. If they had previously asked for a small gem fee to partake in a day of sPvP, I could understand this. But they didn’t and they don’t.

All of the things you listed are items of cosmetic or little necessary value. They do not restrict or empower and are purely for convenience. Custom Arenas, however, are attempting to replace HotJoin in an effort to push people into Tournaments. Tournaments that, as they are currently, throw you against organized teams more often than not and supported by a Leaderboard that’s not maintained properly.

See, the thing that gets me is this: No other feature of Guild War 2 has a cost restriction other than the actual game itself. This is breaking away from what the game promoted itself as.

Once they add features for a premium, they’ll add more. If they don’t add more, then sPvP CAs will be the black sheep of services.

If you plan on trying to burst-bleed with Axe (jump in with SB, switch weapons + Axe #2, jump out), or anticipate a lot of melee-ranged fighting with Axe, Geomancy is better. If you find yourself wanting to kite more often, the other option would be better suited for that.

It really depends on how you’re going to play.
I tend to like Geomancy because they’re guaranteed bleeds on top of whatever I combo them with, which means constant pressure. On my necromancer, I use Geomancy runes on both weapons sets so that I can keep piling on bleeds.

Oberon Vex.1389:

Chrazel.7085:

Vox Hollow.2736:

Mind the relationship between Sigil of Geomancy and Sigil of Earth, as activated effect Sigils share a cooldown. So, if you swap Geomancy, you’ll have to wait before Earth will proc.

Why do they share a cooldown? Can you explain?

I think he means the Sigil of Energy and Sigil of Geomancy, you can only get ONE effect per swap. To my knowledge On-Crit sigil cooldowns don’t interfer with On-Swap ones, but it IS possible, you certainly wont get both the 50% energy and the AoE bleed though.

Actually, all Sigils with cooldowns share cooldowns. It’s unfortunate, but it’s how it works.

Raptured.9307:

Wait what? It’s our gear that’s OP now? Lol?
Also, wanting to burst as a necromancer.. yeah you’re not doing it right. Doesn’t mean other people shouldn’t do it right either. Glass ele dies even faster than glass thief.

If you’re somehow implying that bursting as a Necromancer is somehow “bad,” “wrong,” or something along those lines, I think you have much to learn.

It’s not done much because it’s more challenging to pull off, but it’s possible and quite deadly.

I’ll reiterate simply, as it seems to have been missed by some readers:

Unblockable =/= Able to hit through Invulnerable.

Necro Marks cannot hit an invulnerable target when traited. I don’t see them making an exception for Warriors. There is absolutely -no- reason to believe otherwise.

timidobserver.7925:

Zeke Minus.5720:

I see nothing wrong with this, but this will promote situation awareness. Know that a Warrior running this signet will pop their cooldown when your health gets low and act accordingly.

This helps to make block counterable and, hopefully, will increase situational awareness among Guardians.

Yes it is important to be aware that you are going to get shredded if a warrior if around when you try to pop your block.

Right, so with this knowledge, you LoS or use some sort of mechanic to keep them away from you. Killshot Warrior in WvW? Pop Wall of Reflection and heal. Eviscerate Warrior in sPvP? Use Staff line/Hammer knockback/Scepter root and heal.

There are ways to protect yourself besides block.

I see nothing wrong with this, but this will promote situation awareness. Know that a Warrior running this signet will pop their cooldown when your health gets low and act accordingly.

This helps to make block counterable and, hopefully, will increase situational awareness among Guardians.

Indure.5410:

And why should having an attack that penetrates through blocks affect Invulnerable targets?

I’m not sure where people are getting this “Unblockable hits Invulnerable” idea.

Necromancer marks can become Unblockable, but they cannot hit targets who are Invulnerable. The same will be true for Warriors using this signet. You can still evade their hits, too. This seems to be a direct counter to Aegis and some Guardian mechanics.

In the big picture, it makes sense.

There really was no decision making or consequence involved when choosing to use easy-to-apply boons. There was no solid way of countering the builds that hemorrhaged boons.

These few mechanics add to the table builds that are set to target such builds, and I think that’s a great addition.

kostbabis.8791:

That means using it without target as well as blinds,dodging it,blocks etc will put this on a big cd.

Blocks will not extend the CD. It counts as a “hit.” The other two will, however, and that’s universal.

Reikou.7068:

…and thieves getting pretty much removed from the game.

I really hope this is sarcasm.

The boon thievery is a nice touch, though. I hope they eventually allow them to be shared with a group.

Same. I’m getting extreme lag with an eventual lag-out on only Spirit Watch.

This is how I perceive the use of guides in a MMO community:

• A player is new to dungeons, and chooses to start with one that isn’t difficult so they may understand the flow and idea of combat within a group setting.

• After a player learns from this experience, they continue on to group with other random players to learn about the other, more difficult, dungeons. They make others aware that they have not done said dungeon before, and receive tips or go with the flow.

• If said player is having issues with a mechanic, they take it upon themselves to watch a video to see how others tackle this mechanic, or they work with their group to overcome this obstacle.

• They then proceed, with or without a guide, to overcome the hypothetical mechanic.
  _______________________

I prefer to learn through experience with minor guidance when it comes to video games, but I understand those who want to treat it as a mechanic to farm. This, however, should not be the norm when introducing new players to dungeons.

Geotherma.2395:

All the things you listed can be done in a respectful and tactful manner, without ever harassing the player.

Agreed!

Dirame.8521:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I think it doesn’t fit the lore.

I’d rather a Necro be wielding a 40 foot long detached airplane wing like most Anime characters. Sorry to say.

I don’t get the whole “doesn’t fit the lore” thing. I don’t see it written anywhere that Necros MUST NOT carry shields EVER. Conventions can be broken, just like Monks evolving to become Guardians.

Good point, and absolutely right.

Necromancer is already not strictly about controlling the dead, so I don’t see why they couldn’t improvise and learn.

I’d rather those ideas be traits that apply to DS, but they’re good ideas nonetheless.

I love this type of Thief play!

I normally run the near-infinite evasion variant, but this is great to mess around with, too.

Thanks for the post!

For new players looking to get into dungeons, this is what is fair to ask of a level 80:

• Try the Story Mode first. This will help give you a general idea of the dungeon and help improve your awareness in combat and playing with others.
• Experiment with builds, and find what works best (for you, and for your group).

Once you’ve moved onto Explorable Mode dungeons:

• Bring food and nourishment items.
• Understand what you want to accomplish with your build and role in a group.
• Mention that it’s you’re first time with whichever path your group wants to do.

To those who feel that a new player should make their run fast and seamless:

While I understand where you’re coming from, know that you were once new and wanted to dive into dungeons, too. Please give others the same understanding as those who helped you or worked it out with you did.

This lack of understanding is what makes it vile to work with others, and what most people complain about. Without it, you are a part of the communal problem. This is a MMO, and understanding of others can be your greatest tool.

Grimwolf.7163:

You realize you’re perfectly capable of playing in free tournaments still. The only issue is that a loss affects your ranking, and they have a queue to get into.

Okay, that’s better.

My concern is mostly centered around the idea that the matches you can simply jump into are going to disappear. tPvP is not something you can normally jump into, it’s more of a team thing which is awesome.

It’s presumptuous to state what will and will not happen with cPvP and whether or not it’s going to take off with the majority of the population, but I hope it does well. It would be wonderful to see what kinds of match types players create, but the monetary barrier is going to be hard to overcome for those who only PvP and do not have a lot of gold.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Zeke Minus.5720:

Hmm…

If Custom Arenas are replacing hotjoin and they cost money, and hotjoin is free…

This could potentially kill off the population of prospective PvPers that don’t have gems/lots of gold. This will truly make PvP quite a “small town.”

It doesn’t cost gems to play on a server, only to own one.

Thanks for the reply.

You’re going on the assumption that there are enough people who are willing to host a server without stipulations, and that this idea will actively sustain the sPvP culture and play of the game. Is this correct?

I understand the decisions behind this kind of idea, and with a larger sPvP crowd, I could see it working. At the end of the day, however, this is going to be based on the idea that there will be members of the community willing to support the sPvP infrastructure, and that if they leave, that’s one less custom arena to play on, and one less reason for others to participate in sPvP.

I understand this feature is in Beta, and love the premise of the concept. I really hope you get the feedback you need to make this an attractively seamless, functional, and utilized feature.

EDIT: To clarify: The idea that, to be able to PvP, someone has to spend money is going against the idea of having a choice of whether or not to spend money (gems) for a feature of the game.

Hmm…

If Custom Arenas are replacing hotjoin and they cost money, and hotjoin is free…

This could potentially kill off the population of prospective PvPers that don’t have gems/lots of gold. This will truly make PvP quite a “small town.”

Great idea! I’d like it if there were a trait, such as, “Conditions deal damage if they are cleansed” and have a base damage that is irrelevant to the duration left. I feel the real play should be in the idea of whether or not it’s wise to spam condition removal, or to let it run it’s course.

It would definitely promote better play in regards to people only cleansing when necessary and not when they see any condition pop onto their bar. I’d prefer that the damage be dealt to the cleanser, but it’s debatable.

I also believe it would promote hybrid play. The damage could scale based off of power, and not condition damage. This would allow power builds that don’t take a ton of condition damage to reap the benefits of conditions. The danger with an idea like this, however, is the possibility of it becoming mandatory because of how well it could synergize with a lot of builds.

Rennoko.5731:

Adjust/lower cast times and make chill actually do something to thieves skills. The class mobility frankly is a non-issue for me now as I have gotten used to it. Currently my only other beef is how easy conditions are removed in mass. I think all FULL clear conditions should be changed to just three conditions, and necro should get a trait for skill that give condition cleans a chance to fail.

I would, instead, be happy with a trait that did damage based on how many of my own conditions were cleansed, or have my conditions do damage if they are removed before they expire. This would help to emphasize the back-and-forth play of PvP and create interesting decisions.

Another, possibly more feasible, idea would be to give Necros more “boon hate.” For instance, something like ‘Scepter 3: Converts 2 boons into opposing conditions,’ or give the Necro the ability to steal boons which would coincide with the idea of attrition (Wearing a player down the longer the fight continues and becoming stronger).

The idea of a Necro seems fundamentally flawed at the moment, in the notion that we should be an attrition class. I find myself really only in need of one thing, and that’s the ability to obliterate mobility.

Necros need more immobilizes. As a class that should be hard to escape from, our ability to negate mobility should be on par with the ability to be mobile as a Thief. Simply, a Necro should generally be able to make it difficult for a Thief to escape.

I’m okay with not being mobile. I understand that a Necro’s way around combat is at a slower pace, but in exchange for being able to potentially last longer*. Necromancers need more tools to be able to be the one profession that can lock an opponent down and keep them from escaping.**

*Debatable, at this point.

**We have this in a perma-chill build, but even then, it’s not ideal and even sometimes impractical.

This is still happening.

It has recently begun happening to me again. It’s been about a month since the last pulsing sound/crash, and now it happens daily when I WvW.

aydenunited.5729:

Let’s not talk about untraited because the main complaint for Caltrops on thieves was that it was on a 24 second CD traited, so let’s assume both professions trait for it.

The radius is exactly the same via the tooltip, and visually, they both cover the same area. Unless that is inaccurate somehow, that statement there is completely false.

Caltrops can be placed every 8 seconds by an Engineer and those last for 4 seconds. With Kit Refinement that means 100% uptime on caltrops, and the radius is no smaller, again I’m not getting where that info comes from unless the visual proximity doesn’t match in game stats, and if that’s the case, it’s a bug, but it’s always worked for me as far as I can tell.

3 seconds of block on tool kit + 2 seconds of block + stun (sigil adds a little) means roughly 5-6 seconds of invulnerable on the node vs. stealth which loses you point control. That’s not considering the other things an Engi can bring to the table, I’m just saying that 5 seconds of block on a node > 6-8 seconds of stealth when it comes to point control.

Here’s the thing. You don’t have hundreds of Engineers out there stealing points from you, because that’s not as fun or quickor easy to the average player (not as much as bursty player killing), so you won’t see many complaint posts on this forum based on that. But if you’re going to make complaints based on stats, at least have your stats right. If the tooltips are wrong, I’ll accept that so am I, but based on that alone, this topic should be just as much about Engineers as it is Thieves, but the fact is, people would rather complain about Thieves.

In every MMO game.

Ever.

I understand the point you’re trying to make, but this is where the ideas differ:

• Tool kit Box of Nails and Kit Refinement Tool kit spell are not the same size. I have tested this, standing the same distance from a dummy and casting each. The Box of Nails’ effective radius (not visual radius) is larger than the trait spell. The trait spell is near melee range reach.

• While it is possible to keep the (read: smaller) area covered, you can only have 2 to 4 bleeds on everyone at all times. Box of Nails: 3/4 stacks for 4 seconds. Caltrops: 6/8 stacks for 14 seconds. Both tests were done with the same bleed duration.

This means, while still somewhat threatening, this is nowhere near the level of what a Thief can do. Two to four bleeds over the point, not the 6/8 from Caltrops. You’re correct in saying that Engies have a lot of tools to be quite persistent, even capping a node when a Thief might not (or fail to neutralize it). The Engie can sustain a smaller amount of damage, but the damage is trivial.

The issue is with the size, and as someone mentioned above me, the traits along with this tactic. It’s incredibly easy and surpasses the viability of anything other professions have.

If you want to cap a node while fighting against a Caltrops Thief, you will be forced to stand in the Caltrops. This means you will be blowing cleanses left and right to stay alive as long as you can. The Thief is also applying additional bleeds whilst the Caltrop bleeds you. You may neutralize and begin capping the point, but unless you have obnoxious amounts of condition removal, you will die. This means the Thief just caps the node once you’re on the floor.

aydenunited.5729:

nerva.7940:

i dont have an issue with thieves across all of my profs, have about 400 hours logged in tpvp alone. im just noticing some “broken” mechanics, i.e. ones open to exploits. please stay on topic, thanks.

Why aren’t you complaining about Engineers then? They can trait to keep caltrops up permanently over the node. If your issue is stealth + caltrops, the Engi beats that as well with shields, because you lose the node while you’re stealthed, while shields still keep the node point.

Just seems to be more hate on thieves to me, which is proving to be only a profession that is easy mode in 8v8 where things are chaotic, otherwise, they seem right on par.

What?

If you’re talking about Box of Nails from Tool kit, it’s a 4 second duration with an 10 second cooldown, untraited. Also, Box of Nails can only stack 2 bleeds continuously without condition duration buffs of any kind.

EDIT: Even with Kit Refinement, the bleeds aren’t nearly as easy to stack. You can either have 2/3 on everyone nearly permanently, or 4/6 every 4 seconds. Plus, the radius of Box of Nails is nowhere near the size of Caltrops. The Kit Refinement proc radius is even smaller.

Also, Tool kit shield only lasts 3 seconds (20 second cooldown). Pistol/Shield only reflects projectiles/pushes back or stuns.

Asomal.6453:

“Oh no! A condition based build is actually reaplying their main source of damage, which without it, they’d be completly useless! I should win this fight without losing one single HP! Somebody, call the authorities!”

This is what this topic is becoming.

That’s not how I see it. I see it as a debate on how effective Caltrops is when compared with other viable condition builds. Many are saying that it needs to be looked at, while some are suggesting to avoid it.

I think the skill in comparison to context (capping nodes v. out in the open) is what needs to be looked at. Out in the open, this skill is easily avoidable by most. When trying to capture a node, this skill equates to “One button push, 10+ bleeds consistently,” and this is what the issue is.

I agree with the redistribution of the stunbreak element. Since you normally use it to transfer conditions to an enemy, and it requires LoS, it’s either a stunbreaker or a condition transfer skill. Almost never both.

I’m not sure what I’d prefer the stunbreak to be on, however.

I’m guessing this has been spurred by all of the talk about caltrops, but I played several different matches tonight. Most went something likes this…

Caltrops. Caltrops everywhere.

To be honest, even with as much condition clearing I can build for, this seems out of hand. Two Condi-theives can take a point by themselves by just planting those caltrops. I wish I could do that with another Necro and myself, but we simply wouldn’t be able to outlast them.

I’d love to learn what more I can do to counter them. I normally try to throw their conditions back at them, but they can cleanse quite well. They’re also not very squishy. Stealth ensures that it’s hard to land attacks. I’m kind of confused as to how this might be balanced, but I understand that I am not an expert.

Any thoughts on how to combat these Necro-wannabies, since they’re going flavor-of-the-month now?

Solution: Make the AoE radius the same relative size of wells and make it much more visible. Even if they didn’t decrease the size, I would prefer it to be as visible as wells. It’s only fair.

Yeah, I was just thinking about how it would be nice to have. Necros have better control over conditions.

In all seriousness, though, when I see a condi-theif, I get excited because it means free bleeds. I stand in the Caltrops until I get high, then throw them onto someone I’ve been bleeding and Epidemic. So beautiful.

You know, it would be amazing if my Necro self could have a well that pulsed bleeds. Oh, how a Necro can dream, right?

That’s pretty funny xD