Guild Wars 2

Awesome site tbh, great work.

You realize:

1) This has happened millions of times across every server for literally years
2) You guys did the EXACT SAME THING LITERALLY YESTERDAY
3) Nobody cares

Puck.9612:

DH is a good server but you all are about to be stuck in a really crappy match up with DB and SF where you will be starved for fights. For those of us that have been playing for years, winning and losing doesn’t really mean much anymore, but certain servers go out of their way to avoid fighting and chest thump about capping empty towers which leads to incredibly boring matches. I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes.

One thing to consider puck is both Dh and DB have gotten boat loads of transfers since you last saw us (Dh hit high population and Db too but they got a lot more transfers as well). While Db still isn’t the greatest server to face, the guild they brought over from FA make it better. T5 is probably the size of T4 now, Db is possibly bigger than HoD and Dh possibly bigger than NSP, so it’s not all bad in fights anymore. The problem is the 3rd server basically has nothing to do but backcap while Db and Dh blob each other.

Lapiy.7160:

Well the CD hate is real lol, idk what happened to this guy but CD is like any other server in the game. It has its nice players and its trolls, good players and bad ones. One thing you have to know is that every server has its up and downs, one month a server could be the best place ever and the next month it could be the most toxic in the game(DH had its own drama a few months back don’t let this guy fool you). http://crystal-desert.com/index.php if you just want some plain truth about the active community of CD.

On another note SBI,MAG,CD are in a community made fights tier(Tier3) so all the top guilds are here and competition is fierce, many guilds and players get broken because they cant handle it so unless you are into hardcore raiding and want to fight the best I would not come here.

What drama in specific are you referring to on Dh? We have a SMALL amount of drama atm, but we didn’t die because of drama… we died because we were a full server. Dh had very little drama a few months ago. The only real drama you encounter on Dh is squabbles over whether to use old or new ts, and both crowds generally leave each other alone.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

And DH which I’m on now is my new home, hopefully forever. I’ve never been more happy with a transfer and I don’t ever plan on leaving unless something serious happens. DH has an amazing community, fun, loving people with lots of great humor. Chat is always a blast to read and participate in. Great fighters, even PUGs can wipe full guilds with even numbers. Lots of dedicated roamers and dedicated guilds, great commander’s… It just has everything one could want. I’d almost say it’s a shame we’re not in a higher tier but at the same time I think we’re right where we belong. Where there are still challenges to be had and not tons of bandwagons. Still, if you want a great place to go, come to Darkhaven. I haven’t been on every server but I’ve been on enough of them to know that DH is by a long shot the best place to be.

Inb4 post deleted for discussing match making.

T.T +1 I cried #dh4lyf

Bump. Welcome to all our new guilds. Dh now has a t4-worthy population and only one thing stands between us and getting there: dragonbrand. Join with us and help us fight this menace which queues maps in SEA lel.

Bump, this is an awesome server that is just unkillable. No matter how bad our luck gets, we’ll always pick ourselves back up and rise again!

As a Darkhaven player (t5):

-Queues are rareish, maybe 1-2 queues on reset with a solid amount of people in each of the other non queued BLs. Outside of reset queues are rare, though they occasionally pop up in EB or Dh BL.

-Speaking from my experience on Dh (shooting from t6 to t3 in our initial climb a few months ago), yes WvW gets more serious the higher up you go. People generally do not try to force you to do something you don’t want to. People won’t get mad at you if you’re a solo roamer or anything like that. People generally just let you be on your own, though you’ll get the occasional command to “build this” or “rally to x com”.

-There are both more groups and larger groups. Generally eb gets bigger while BL gets more individual groups. EB tends to be one main blob with maybe 1-2 guild group around from each server. However, in BL, if a high priority target is up for grabs, the groups will tend to rally there (often in 3 way fights) and blob up.

-Yes, higher up generally means more tags. On reset, on all maps, Dh will have like 10-15 probably, not including separate tags for certain guild groups (e.g. certain guild groups run separate tags in the same group for driver/pick team leader etc…). Still though sometimes it’s just 1, sometimes it’s 2 or 3. And the higher up you go, the more tagless groups are running around (generally these are roamers/fights purist guilds).

-In regards to communication it’s still generally just TS, though the TS of higher tier servers tend to have more organization/bells & whistles.

Bensozia.8071:

We can claim the same thing. Doesn’t mean its true. Back up your claim with proof.
And not just one or two examples either. to be statistically accurate you need a large sample and you need to prove other servers do it less. Can you do that?

I’m not claiming it’s demonstrable truth. I’m claiming I’ve witnessed Db be terrible as a server more than I’ve witnessed any other server in my time in gw2. Since my claim is anecdotal in nature, I merit no burden of proof UNLESS I’m claiming that you should believe me too. That’s a key distinction. I’m more than fine with you disagreeing/doubting what I say. I’m just giving my perspective, if you don’t think I’m right, that’s fine. But I don’t need to prove what I’ve claimed I’ve seen, it’s an anecdote, and that’s what the op was asking for.

sephiroth.4217:

I understand what you’re saying, which is why I took pictures to show you that you guys did it too, but to further more prove what I said, this time I took photos of your guild doing exactly what you hate DB doing.

1st pic: Your guild + pugs using siege to shoot at our spawn

2nd pic: Your guild refusing to engage 1v1 but jumping and /laughing from keep instead.

I’ve said a billion times, yes, all servers do it, that’s not what it’s about. It’s about how your server does it more than others. The “you do it too” defense doesn’t work, to reiterate one last time, because I’m NOT claiming you guys do these things, I’m claiming you guys do these things SIGNIFICANTLY MORE THAN OTHER SERVERS.

Bensozia.8071:

1. Not 99% as you seem to think. At least when Im on. Our group most of the time jumps out even if outnumbered.

2. Agreed that spawn camping is lame. But I dont see that happen much either.

3. So we should just leave towers and keeps paper so you can take them easier?

1. 99% isn’t meant to be literal, it’s just most.

2. Because we don’t let you (we’re stronger than you in NA/EU and on par with you in OCX). Every time your server gets the opportunity to spawn camp (during/just after SEA), it does (at least to Dh). Every single morning after SEA, I walk out of our spawn, and get trebbed and/or people trying to gank me. I kid you not, this is not a joke, what I’m about to tell you literally happened today. You had a guy sitting on a treb, trebbing just outside our spawn with cows/normal shot, for about half an hour. I kid you not.

I’m not the type who’s like “spawn camp evil”, there’s multiple exits, it’s not too big of a deal to me personally.

3. Like I said, the problem with this only appears taken in tandem with the other problems.

sephiroth.4217:

snip

I play all time zones (schedule changes). Fun fact, I believe I’m in one of your pics lol.

You’re not understanding the point I’m making unfortunately. I don’t blame Db for having more people. I blame Db for how they USE their people. Let me sum up what I feel Db does that makes me (and 99% of others who face them for any period of time, if you think it’s just AR/Dh saltlords, head on over to gw2wvw.net and look at the threads involving db there, just as much hate comes from every other server) hate them:

1) Simply put, you’re tower/keep/camp huggers. Getting 99% of Db to fight without a tower/keep being involved is like trying to get a child to willingly choose veggies over chocolate. It just generally doesn’t happen. There are exceptions, ofc (such as when you largely outnumber people, and other rare cases like VP or GFC who will just straight up fight you).

2) You’re siege spammers. I’m not talking about your pugs, that’s obvious, your pugs spam more than other pugs, but I don’t blame your server for it’s pugs. I’m talking about your guild groups. One such example I can give (with pics if needed), is of 2 Db guild groups running 20+, fighting SotD solo (15ish), where they build: 2 trebs, 4 superior ballistas, 2 sup acs, 1 unidentified build site, and possibly more siege in nearby objectives. This is to spawn camp one lone guild group (and get 1 pushed by sotd through a portal bomb LOL).

3) You upgrade EVERYTHING. This wouldn’t be so bad if not for the first 2 points… but seriously, there’s a waypoint in one of our keeps on many days, and if not it’s because we bum rushed it unexpectedly before your MANY scouts/defenders/siege-enthusiasts could react. What we can expect to wake up to is one or many of our keeps t2, filled with siege, with scouts manning cannons everywhere.

IoW, Db is YB but without any of the talent that YB lucked upon as it rose through the ranks.

sephiroth.4217:

I’m not, my opinion was formed by experience over 3 years of pure WvW.

---

I stopped reading at “I was PvFing back in 2012”. I’m not interested in internet flexing.

lolw0t then why bring up your many years of experience? If it’s relevant to your point, then me bringing up my equal amount of experience is just as relevant to my point.

sephiroth.4217:

I’m not, my opinion was formed by experience over 3 years of pure WvW.

GoM – [WaR]
FA – [uA]
GoM – [RUN]
IOJ – [RUN]
GoM – [RISE]
IoJ – [DOLO]
CD for a week lol
IoJ – [DOLO]
FA – [XIII/RISE/RUN]
DB – [RISE/Turd]

Every server cries the same about the other server doing what they do anyway.
I just spent the last 2 hours roaming EB, only a guildless warrior from BP would fight me solo, otherwise both BP and DH refused to engage me with out superior numbers, even at RQ I pretended to be afk after [sotd]? ported out and 4 people looked at me, edging closer bit by bit till I moved and they ported too…

Every server does it.

Yeah I have 3 years of pure WvW too (and my post history affirms that for the record, I was PvFing back in 2012 lol all you have to do is look at my post history). You’re still using bad logic. You’re continuing to make the same error, all servers do it, therefore Db is nothing special. But Db does it MORE.

I have experienced t2-8. I’ve fought YB. I’ve been on YB. I’ve fought SoR. I have fought SF dozens of times. I have faced the most hated, reviled, trash servers over and over and over. None of them compare to what Db is right now. 0 serious fight guilds (unless one of your recent transfers is one, idk, you’re getting a lot so it’s hard to keep track). Your guilds blob up, AJ, and virtually never fight alone. Your server upgrades literally everything, siege spamming, disable spamming, etc… Virtually no roamers except a legion of condi pu mesmers (I kid you not, 90% of my solo roaming encounters are condi pu mesmers from Db, it is not like this with other servers).

Case in point, check my picture. That is our bay, which is of course almost t3 because Db is upgrading it as we speak. What you are seeing is (and they’re not all completely caught in the pic because a lot are hiding in the back and on siege/in lords):

4 Superior Arrow Carts
RF guild raid (20ish)
AZ guild raid (20ish)
VP guild gathering (15ish)
Pug zerg (20ish)

Vs

SotD guild raid (15)
Pug zerg (10ish)

Want me to spoil how it turns out? Db doesn’t push onto us, at all. They sit there shooting the breach in the wall, until we realize it’s pointless and pull back to continue cataing another wall down. One of their guilds comes up behind SotD, which prompts sotd to take a better fighting position, and then finally the other 3 groups push onto our catas and we have to flee bay.

Now I’m not saying my pic proves my overall point. You’re right, we all blob, we all AJ, we all use siege, etc… I’m just giving an example of what fighting Db is pretty much ALWAYS like. If you can’t see that, then you need to server hop a bit more and face Db some and see how they really operate. Virtually everyone who has faced Db will agree with me, even if they don’t think Db is the worst, they will say they’re terrible (unless they’re currently on Db).

darkwarder.3645:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

The problem: If you place an AC (arrow cart) in the right spot and set your field of view (FOV) to max, you can hit all players and siege inside a tower or keep.

I’d never seen this until last night. We were trying to defend Durios but an AC outside the wall (Umber-side) was hitting the top of the supply and the stairs to the lord’s room. Couldn’t get anything built in time. It seems like in the lower tiers, we don’t see as many exploits.

You haven’t seen Db. They use this method for any major attack (upgraded tower, keep).

save me puck x.x

sephiroth.4217:

Personally I enjoy being on DB, only just transferred myself.

Not sure what people are going on about with this whole blob thing and no one fights nonsense, it’s the sorta stuff that happens on all servers…

“That 1 uplevel is hiding in a tower from me god that server is bad they all hide and never fight only blob” is nothing more than juicy tears

This is what Db apologists always say. Sorry, servers are not all the same, they’re not all equal. Yes, all blob, all hide, but some blob more, some hide more. Db blobs most. Db hides most. Db is the worst. Db is the least respectable. Db is truly a terrifyingly bad server, I would rather face any server in the game than Db.

I’m sorry, don’t want to turn this into a “bash Db” thread… I’m just saying you can’t reject criticisms with “oh all do it to some extent!”. All countries have corruption, therefore we’ll say the Soviet Union was no worse than other countries? That logic just doesn’t fly.

Crime is correct in what he says. To clear up out status on TS: most commanders do not use TS, but often our NA prime commanders/SEA commanders do use TS and run the zergs like a t2/3 server would (ie more like a large guild group).

Weakness of Dh being we sometimes don’t have coms in OCX/EU, though NA and SEA are reliable in that regard. Any more information you might need on Darkhaven, feel free to mail me in game or whisper me when I’m online (can’t be at the moment unfortunately).

Best of luck in your search.

Here is my honest experience as a Darkhaven player:

We have perhaps the most dedicated roamers/roaming guilds of t5-6. We, as noted previous by expandas, are experiencing a population shift upwards like Db is, such that we’re much bigger than other t5/6 servers aside from Db (the scores don’t reflect it at the moment, but trust me, we’re quite a bit bigger). The population level on Db is likely about equal to a t4 server at this point, with Dh coming up behind that somewhat mostly because their SEA is larger than most T2 servers (and yes, I have a t2 account, and have fought t2 on Dh before). In fact it’s funny, our SEA is bigger than any t4 server’s… but we still tick 0.

The servers we face are varied and generally have good roamers. As a roamer since about the launch of the game, I’ll say, the servers you want to face in the t4-6 bracket are NSP/GoM/AR. I’ll refrain from saying whether or not Dh is good to fight, as I’m obviously biased. Other servers are generally bad, blob, or cheese. In some cases all 3.

T4 is generally locked, this means very little matchup variety, with Db possibly making an entrance into t4 in a few weeks, but even then that’d be one new matchup over the course of many, many weeks. T5/6 have a lot of variety, with servers swapping in and out.

So my recommendations would be: Dh/DB/SoR for transfers, to get the best mix of fights. With Db, I’ll add a caveat: they perhaps add the most varied amount of servers to fight that have good roamers… but know this, you will be quite despised by virtually everyone. Db is widely considered to be the worst server in silver/bronze, in skill, in blobs, in everything. They have only one decent guild, rest are utter trash. You will be hated. The plus side to this being, you don’t ever actually have to face Db! Their only roamers 99% of the time are PU condi mesmers (and I’m not kidding, on Dh bl right now there are 3 db pu condi mesmers roaming separately from each other and NO OTHER ROAMER). You may hate your own server, depending on your personality, but at least you wouldn’t have to actually face them.

Alphabet.7392:

How is a thief killing you when you have 3.3k armor? (Unless he’s condition, lol)

People shouldn’t complain unless they play the game at a high enough level. You can dodge backstabs from stealth, you know. All you need to more practice. You can interrupt their leap and make them waste 9 initiative. Or you can play literally any class with enough access to protection/weakness with a modicum of condition damage.

D/p isn’t the only wep set that backstabs rofl… And yes, you CAN interrupt it, that doesn’t mean it’s easy or always a viable option (you have a short timeframe to do so, and if the thief hit you with the projectile blind which is a part of the combo, you will very probably not be able to attack to wear off blind then cc unless your cc is instant, and even then it’s a close call).

Also, yes you CAN dodge a backstab, but it’s more a matter of luck than skill. You just rotate with the intent to avoid a pattern as much as possible (thereby making the “backstab” miss the “back” part and do significantly decreased damage), OR spam dodges after just less than 2 seconds assuming they don’t backstab earlier (which a good thief can easily do in close range).

That said, the OP is still wrong. Thief will have a virtually impossible time doing that much dmg unless they go quickness and have a full yolo DPS build… in which case they’re easier to kitten than they are easy to kitten with.

NSP has some late SEA, not that strong but can definitely field a small zerg. HoD has pug SEA since bana left, which means it’s less reliable but it’s still there. EBay has barely any SEA, just occasional zergs.

NSP has no OCX. HoD has STRM + pugs so they have semi active ocx. EBay has a lot of havoc groups that run in OCX (many are NA players staying up late) so they’re fairly active as well. EBay has no real EU except a pug group. HoD has AIR and a good deal of pugs in EU. NSP has a TON of random people on in EU, havoc groups, ppt guilds, etc…

And for general information about the servers:

NSP is a relatively tight/stable community but are also super fairweathers (amongst the worst in the game, they’ll disappear completely if facing serious resistance, they do it time and time again).

HoD is trash as a community atm, Db basically all left their server and went to HoD, and now all the guilds originally on HoD basically have left (and I hear the Db on HoD are thinking of doing the same).

EBay has a really solid community with no real outstanding issues that are particularly relevant to this discussion.

ChoChoBo.6503:

At the end of their first year, they release a fact sheet saying they sold over 3 million units and have a ~250k player base. That’s a little under 10% of total units sold. That’s like a video going viral and 90% of viewers thumb-downed/disliked it. It’s kind of crazy when you think of it that way.

But in Anet’s defense, selling 3 million copies of any game is freaking ridiculous. Having a quarter million active players is unheard of. And when you put those two numbers together… it doesn’t add up and for that reason they probably don’t want to really reveal the current state of the game is at anymore.

It doesn’t work like that, every MMO loses similar numbers of people over time. It’s a fact of life that MMO players come to MMOs for specific reasons, and no MMO can or will satisfy all of those. Since this is b2p as well, it also means a lot of people who will have quit at one point in time, will come back, as I did about 2 years ago (played for a few months at launch, quit for a few months, came back and have been playing ever since).

The vast majority of my friends who played back then still play occasionally too, they’re just not on every day for hours.

I don’t even PvE, but LA is GORGEOUS. Seriously, I couldn’t have cared less when it was announced, but it is truly gorgeous now that I see it in game. WELL DONE.

Dh is an awesome server. Been here since launch. We’re going through a rough patch, a few fights guilds left once we realized we couldn’t sustain t3. But, that has not proven a fatal blow. We’ve only dropped one tier, and those of us who’ve stayed have proven ourselves loyal to Dh. If you come here, you’ll be joining a community-oriented server, one that is trying it’s best to be as competitive—in every regard—as it can.

Please, consider us! And know full status does not make it impossible to transfer. You can still transfer during ocx/eu sometimes when full status disappears.

Tired of being run over? You think you get run over less in high tiers? Pass me whatever you’re having, it must be the good stuff. (Dh went to t3 and to t5 recently, pretty sure I have a solid grasp of the difference lol)

Nightblood is correct, look during off peak times and Dh will lose its full status on occasion. Log in and check every once and a while, you’ll find an opening. I’ve had multiple people get over by transferring during 10-11am PST if memory serves.

That said, I would like to point out that this is ridiculously unfair to us as a WvW server. We were going places before full status hit. Once full status hit, it lost us a bunch of people considering transferring to our server, thus losing our shot at t3, thus losing our guilds that wanted to be a part of t3. Anet, your systems screwed Dh over, it is not fair for a t5 server to be full while t2/3 servers are not. It’s stupid. Fix it please.

Warlord.9074:

Liston.9708:

I have accts in t2 and t3. I think you might be disappointed if you go t3 expecting a huge difference compared to t2…. You won’t have the huge queue, but otherwise……

You could say T3 is now like what T2 was like just over a year ago? That is before everyone stacked in T2 and turned it into T1.5??? Id argue T3 isn’t 2.5 though its more like T2 without the ques and a lot less blobby with good roaming. When HOD moves up it will be pretty much perfect in my opinion.

You realize HoD is the combination of the 2nd most hated server NA (DB) and the most hated t4/5 server (HoD)… They spam siege, they blob everything (BP did move over to HoD, dat 60 man skill group), they have virtually no good roamers, and they ppt before fights. How could they make anything perfect for anyone lol? Doesn’t help that StormBuy Isles is a blob server with low skill across the board except a few new guilds they bought from other servers, and Mag is as filled with ppt tryhard yb style players as it is with fights purists (for every tg there’s a cccp, for every vr there’s an sfd, for every nacho there’s a purplecam, you get the point).

I’m glad you’re enjoying it but just imo we need to avoid giving a false picture of what t3 is. It’s not perfect, even a lot of Mag players have been complaining to me about how boring it is lol.

Turk.5460:

The tiers have nothing to do with player skill. If anything, higher tier players are going to be worse players than the ones in the lower tiers, considering theres mostly blobs running around up there.

So if you move down servers for this reason, you’re going to have a worse time when you get steamrolled even harder by the smaller groups.

By the same token that there’s more blobs, there’s also a lot more roaming groups… Facing NSP and Mag, you literally will find solo roamers/roaming groups if you even try to leave your eb keep. They’re everywhere.

insanemaniac.2456:

oh dear, dont you start falling into the “rating = skilled roamers” trap now… roaming isnt any more or less skilled in high tiers, just the chance that someone (or enough someones to kill you no matter what) actually responds is close to 100%. in low tiers its more like 10%, until you take every camp and start hitting a tower.

Lol it’s just my opinion. The most skilled roaming servers in the game that I’ve fought are NSP, IoJ, and Mag. IoJ I consider a silver server since that’s where they’ve spent the majority of their recent time. Old school FC was a really good roaming server, but that time has long passed (many left, only a few like yourself/nia apparently still remain). Tell me, what are some REALLY (and I mean that word, like Yarr from FC or BS from ET in olden days) good roaming guilds from lower tiers can you think of? Is Ohai still around? They may count, but I can think of very few. Take it server by server, what amazing roaming guild is on SoR? What about GoM?

It’s just my opinion, but roaming against GoM/SoR has been… a less than thrilling experience. They just don’t have many good roamers atm.

I’d also say it’s not based purely on rating. It’s a case by case basis. And t1 has terrible roaming. t2 is better, but mostly reliant on builds as opposed to skill. t3/4 seem to hit that sweet spot, enough people to give roamers a lottttt of action, not too many zergs/guilds running around so that everyone has to start traiting for mobility/stealth for escapes. More battles where people stand their ground.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Arius.7031:

Offair.2563:

Deli.1302:

It’s the only place you’re gonna find bad players unless you transfer to a low tier server.

So you assume people on low tier are generally bad, because they play on a low tier?

To be fair, they are on average less good lol. Dh spent years in t6/7 before we ascended as far as t3, we’ve fought t5 servers really recently, and the skill levels seem to be much higher in the higher tiers. In fact, the servers made fun of for being bad tend to be better than bronze servers to be honest. I don’t mean to be offensive, but imo the skill level is definitely lower the lower you go. That’s rationally explained too, by the fact that the higher you go the more people there are, more people = more fights, more fights = more practice to get gudder. It’s funny, because I know many pug zergs in higher tiers that can easily wipe even numbered guild groups from lower tier (Tryden zerg from Dh, Bannok zerg from SBI, Nacho zerg from Mag etc etc…).

It’s not always the case that the higher ranked the better, but it’s a general rule of thumb that has definitely held true as I’ve witnessed Dh rise from t7/6 to t3/4/5. I’d say T3 > T4 > T5 >>>> T6 ? T7 ? T8. T5 servers (specifically EBay) don’t seem that far behind, while specific T6 servers (from what I’ve seen) seem absolutely horrendous (I won’t say which servers in specific). Don’t mean to sound condescending, this is just my honest observation.

I dare you to find a lower-tier guild group with numbers even to the SBI, Mag, or Dh zergs. You’d have to stick a guild group in there with 60-80 people. Where are you finding a guild like that? [WAL] from CD maybe? Because that is the only one I can think of.

[GSCH] from SoR runs [WAL] numbers give or take a few. EBay’s 2 main guildg roups both field more numbers than any single Dh guild except RIOT (Woe fields 20+ and CoT fields more). Bard/OMEN from SoR field numbers comparable to RIOT.

The problem for lower tier servers (the ones I’ve encountered anyway) isn’t that their guild groups aren’t large enough, it’s that there’s not enough of them. SoR is basically Bard/OMEN/GSCH and that’s it, period (not literally, but that’s the majority of their wvw pop).

I’ve attached a pic of one of gsch’s raids that I saw, not their highest numbers, but still large enough to make my point I think. They’re popping orange swords on razer solo, and there’s way more than just 25 there lolz.

Offair.2563:

More people = more fights yes, but that does not mean they are generally better just because they can field more people at any given time. For example last couple of months i had some new players getting in our roam guild transfering from Fissure of Woe/Vabbi. And i can tell you, they are way better roamers then you can think off.

So it is still an assumption people on lower tier are generally bad vs higher tiers.

I’d say it’s incorrect that they’re generally bad, but that they’re generally less good? I think that’s a fair statement to make. I don’t make this statement out of ignorance, I’ve fought lower tier servers, I was a part of one, now I’m a part of a mid tier server. When Dh got to higher tiers, we were totally unprepared and regularly got rekt in every even number engagement.

I can’t speak for EU, but in NA I believe the higher you go generally the better, with obvious exceptions. More roamers = generally more fights, do you not agree? And do you not agree, that a person with more fights is generally gonna be better than a person with less (just generally)? I think the argument is pretty sound for lower tiers being generally worse than higher ones (that and my experience of it for me, but that’s anecdotal).

Offair.2563:

Deli.1302:

It’s the only place you’re gonna find bad players unless you transfer to a low tier server.

So you assume people on low tier are generally bad, because they play on a low tier?

To be fair, they are on average less good lol. Dh spent years in t6/7 before we ascended as far as t3, we’ve fought t5 servers really recently, and the skill levels seem to be much higher in the higher tiers. In fact, the servers made fun of for being bad tend to be better than bronze servers to be honest. I don’t mean to be offensive, but imo the skill level is definitely lower the lower you go. That’s rationally explained too, by the fact that the higher you go the more people there are, more people = more fights, more fights = more practice to get gudder. It’s funny, because I know many pug zergs in higher tiers that can easily wipe even numbered guild groups from lower tier (Tryden zerg from Dh, Bannok zerg from SBI, Nacho zerg from Mag etc etc…).

It’s not always the case that the higher ranked the better, but it’s a general rule of thumb that has definitely held true as I’ve witnessed Dh rise from t7/6 to t3/4/5. I’d say T3 > T4 > T5 >>>> T6 ? T7 ? T8. T5 servers (specifically EBay) don’t seem that far behind, while specific T6 servers (from what I’ve seen) seem absolutely horrendous (I won’t say which servers in specific). Don’t mean to sound condescending, this is just my honest observation.

t3-4 are the only things that can even possibly offer what you seek. No other tier has many actively raiding fights guilds, I believe t5 and lower tend to have maybe 1 per server… The lower you go, the less guilds there are and in fact the blobbier the mentality is per guild.

NSP is the most solid t4 server in stability, they’ve proven over and over they belong there. CD has tons of drama, we had a group of people who moved there to play with their friends, they came back to Dh after like 2 weeks. It was terrible they said, lots of toxicity in map chat.

T4, however, might go through a rough situation soon. DB from t3 will move down next week probably, and if they’re competitive in t4 ppt, there’ll be 4 t4 servers, so 1 server will always be in t5, and DB sucks in NA so no one wants to fight them.

T3 is stable on the other hand, Mag/SBI are 100% t3 locked, and HoD probably will lock itself in there too at this rate.

I think t4 sounds like it suits your fights needs more (less blob, less siege, less queues) but I think t3 has your stability desires far better coverage. If you’re going t4, go dh/nsp imo, CD’s toxicity means I can’t recommend them as of yet, and DB’s lack of any NA means they obviously can’t be recommended if you’re looking for guilds. Both Dh and NSP have guilds recruiting. Dh’s guilds are smaller (15-20 range generally) and more GvG oriented, whereas NSP’s are bigger and more balanced in regards to ppt/fights (most Dh guilds don’t ppt at all lolz).

Dh has strong NA/SEA, solid EU, but weak OCX. People saying NSP has stronger NA than Dh, but I don’t really agree with that honestly. I’d say Dh has stronger early NA and NSP has stronger late NA.

CD has solid but relatively weak NA compared to these 2. CD has strong SEA, comparable to Dh, but probably a little weaker. Strong EU. Weak OCX though.

NSP has strong EU/NA but weak OCX/SEA.

If you’re looking to roam, you should probably move to CD or Dh. NSP already has more roamers than most servers in the game, CD/Dh need more.

+1, hopefully with the facts readily available to finally back us up, maybe we’ll actually be considered.

Bumping the thread because I’m Skairgee’s wife and he paid me to do it.

Johje Holan.4607:

Arius.7031:

Kanebrake.6192:

SkyShroud.2865:

NiloyBardhan.9170:

Its pretty surprising that a server like Darkhaven went full right after the $10 sale went live O.o

WoW! This is really serious issue now. Is anet actively doing anything? Why a T4 server will go full, even for awhile. Anet WvW team need to seriously start looking at the population, you are making a lot of players really frustrated. If you are already working on something, at least do a soft fix like increasing the cap on particular servers. TBH, I find it puzzling why even the last ranked server is rated Very High.

They could be setting servers to full in order to force the new accounts into the lower tiered servers and bring up their population.

Then they ought to set Maguuma and SBI to full. Why set Dragonbrand (2nd place t3) and Darkhaven (1st place t4) to full instead of Mag (1st place t3) and SBI (3rd place t3). Makes no sense. They must just be taking into account all dem pve accounts and probably inactive accounts as well.

What? No don’t set SBI to Full. We’re the weakling in the match.

I have a feeling you didn’t read my post lol. We’re lower ranked to you and we got set to full. That seems to counter the idea that Anet is just setting high tier servers to full to get people to move down. I never said SBI should be full?

Kanebrake.6192:

SkyShroud.2865:

NiloyBardhan.9170:

Its pretty surprising that a server like Darkhaven went full right after the $10 sale went live O.o

WoW! This is really serious issue now. Is anet actively doing anything? Why a T4 server will go full, even for awhile. Anet WvW team need to seriously start looking at the population, you are making a lot of players really frustrated. If you are already working on something, at least do a soft fix like increasing the cap on particular servers. TBH, I find it puzzling why even the last ranked server is rated Very High.

They could be setting servers to full in order to force the new accounts into the lower tiered servers and bring up their population.

Then they ought to set Maguuma and SBI to full. Why set Dragonbrand (2nd place t3) and Darkhaven (1st place t4) to full instead of Mag (1st place t3) and SBI (3rd place t3). Makes no sense. They must just be taking into account all dem pve accounts and probably inactive accounts as well.

Darkhaven has sustained silver quite effectively. Further, our server has a reputation for many skilled groups and solid coverage. No matter your playstyle, zerg busting, roaming, havoc, ppt, defense, Dh has it ALL and guilds dedicated to each one of those for you to join in most time zones. Friendly community, solid organization (though we can always use improvement) for our tier, top GvG guilds in silver… it’s just an awesome server to be on. If you’re considering moving or choosing your 1st server, consider Darkhaven!

Yeah, Stephen is amazing. Devs giving WvW serious attention and letting us all know he’s doing it. Is this my birthday?

Ufel.9504:

Arius, man, it’s obvious everywhere you post that you have a not-so-secret kitten for Mag. Surprised you haven’t joined already like other haters have.

Right but seeing as the majority of my criticisms against the t3 “fights tier” were actually directed at DB/SBI (not that I dislike either server, just that they’re not really what people are looking for in a “fights tier”), I don’t see what the relevance is. I hate Mag, I hope it dies a horrible death and goes back to t6 where it belongs. That doesn’t change the fact that, for a fights tier to be truly successful, there will need to be 3 servers with an abundance of fight focused people, not just with an abundance of people. DB and Mag have plenty of people, but only one of those servers has enough fights focused people to keep it interesting, and imo neither server has enough talent to draw any serious t2 gvg or fights guilds.

Natronix.9827:

First, as far as I’m concerned DOLO only scrimmed ( very odd number gvg) with PYRO. Which isn’t the top group there is to face on mag.

What’s the top group on Mag? I think they also scrimmed VR, but may be mistaken.

Secondly, you speak of T2 as if you have been there, you have no clue what coverage wars are and your basement tier knowledge cuts real short to spit all this non sense.

lol? How would you know I haven’t been there? Oh, because I’m primarily on Dh? Alt accounts don’t exist, apparently. I wish I had your omniscience.

Last but not least the fact that you feel IoJ/NSP guilds are giving you a tought fight ( and coverage wise too) is absolutely laughable. If DH was half as good as you make them sound to be you should not have any problem, being that only DOLO/CORE are the only fun dudes there and they are no where near a hardcore fight focused guilds.

No, I said they are giving us the best fights. Dolo is probably the best GvG guild in silver atm unless Mag has received some guild like FUN since I last saw you. Core is also up there. Aux is decent. Mag has, what? Pyro/VR/War/Fire? 2/4 are trash 2/4 are worse than DOLO. There’s not piece of evidence that Dh is aware of to suggest there’s anyone on Mag worth fighting, not a single guild (not to say some can’t be good/decent, I’m sure many are, maybe even better than Dh guilds, but why aim for guilds that the evidence says are inferior).

There has been even more returning players into mag since we’ve arrived in T3, the fights across time zones are shaping up for the better but surely you wont take a participant of T3’s word for it.

Now see, how can you not be lying when you’re facing DB and SBI of all servers? Lol the denial man, DB sucks, even their guild groups, and SBI doesn’t even HAVE guild groups. The fights around the clock that are “shaping up” are you fighting terrible pugs/guilds, whereas T2 actually has dedicated guilds to offhours, more round the clock there. Even ppt guilds are better fights than random pugs. T3 primarily has pugs and Mag has a few ppt-dedicated guilds in the off hours, that’s it. SBI only gives good fights in 80v80 sector, DB couldn’t put up a good fight against a Twinkie and EVERYONE knows it.

Now please, leave the T3 thread to T3, DH has nothing to do or prove here since you can barely sustain T4

Right but I’ve been in t3 and fought all t3 servers recently so I think my opinion is valid. T3 is trash, this isn’t some vindictive campaign arbitrarily against tier 3. Nor is it a vindictive campaign against any server in t3 (I have a highly positive opinion of SBI, a moderately positive opinion of DB, and while my opinion of Mag is low, it’s not as low as that of SF for example). Simply put, I’ve seen what you guys have to offer, and it’s trash.

The propoganda Mag is spewing is just astonishing. At least get it out there that t3 currently isn’t at all a fights tier, but if people want to try to make it one they should come over. The misinformation is just silly.

FrownyClown.8402:

Arius.7031:

Natronix.9827:

Arius man stop talking like you recently fought mag. DH is a joke, had enough coverage to stay alive but you are all too scared because deep inside you love that PPT. You dont want to fight the up hill battle like SBI is.

I call out any DH guilds or groups to face any pug group that I lead on equal numbers, I gurrantee none will come out on top.

PvF aside though;

Tier 3 is stabilizing as DB loses rating. We only need guilds, individuals and leaders to step up and move to the servers in need ( Not maguuma). Come cheerish a less ppt, siege centric tier with a lot of potential.

Dh fought mag 3 weeks ago… We have fought Mag recently lol.

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/46/261

Also, stop with your silly posturing. Trying to deflect from legitimate criticisms with mindless insulting PvF just makes it look like you can’t actually respond to the criticisms. Your best Mag guilds couldn’t take a round off DOLO, whereas every guild on Dh that GvG’d DOLO (afaik, hart/mean/tag did) took round(s) from them. Not a single guild on Mag could take TAG in even numbers, or a militia zerg for that matter.

Also your TIER is DB/SBI atm, stop pretending it’s less siege centric or ppt centric. DB can’t fight for it’s life, SBI only fights in an 80 man blob and they will tell you that SAME thing. At BEST, if we grant that Mag is fun to fight, then that’s 1 fights server in t3… but there’s 2 others that really aren’t in any shape to be fun fights. Why go to t3 for fights, when t2 servers have more fights, better fights, and round the clock fights?

Edit: Also worth noting, why should we push up when t4 is a better fights tier than t3? You act like we’re running from t3 because we want to ppt, we’re running from t3 because we want to fight. No gvgs in t3, no skill in t3, IoJ is currently the best server to fight for us in the game. NSP also for open field fights, though they don’t gvg like IoJ does.

come up then big boy. We would be glad to take on DOLO and your apparently fantastic guilds. VR is always looking for new challenges.

We neither have the coverage, nor do are there any guilds we in specific want to fight in t3. Dolo bested y’all, if none of you could take a round off of them, why would we have any desire to fight you whatsoever? The good guilds in silver are on IoJ atm, no reason to fight Mag rofl.

Natronix.9827:

Arius man stop talking like you recently fought mag. DH is a joke, had enough coverage to stay alive but you are all too scared because deep inside you love that PPT. You dont want to fight the up hill battle like SBI is.

I call out any DH guilds or groups to face any pug group that I lead on equal numbers, I gurrantee none will come out on top.

PvF aside though;

Tier 3 is stabilizing as DB loses rating. We only need guilds, individuals and leaders to step up and move to the servers in need ( Not maguuma). Come cheerish a less ppt, siege centric tier with a lot of potential.

Dh fought mag 3 weeks ago… We have fought Mag recently lol.

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/46/261

Also, stop with your silly posturing. Trying to deflect from legitimate criticisms with mindless insulting PvF just makes it look like you can’t actually respond to the criticisms. Your best Mag guilds couldn’t take a round off DOLO, whereas every guild on Dh that GvG’d DOLO (afaik, hart/mean/tag did) took round(s) from them. Not a single guild on Mag could take TAG in even numbers, or a militia zerg for that matter.

Also your TIER is DB/SBI atm, stop pretending it’s less siege centric or ppt centric. DB can’t fight for it’s life, SBI only fights in an 80 man blob and they will tell you that SAME thing. At BEST, if we grant that Mag is fun to fight, then that’s 1 fights server in t3… but there’s 2 others that really aren’t in any shape to be fun fights. Why go to t3 for fights, when t2 servers have more fights, better fights, and round the clock fights?

Edit: Also worth noting, why should we push up when t4 is a better fights tier than t3? You act like we’re running from t3 because we want to ppt, we’re running from t3 because we want to fight. No gvgs in t3, no skill in t3, IoJ is currently the best server to fight for us in the game. NSP also for open field fights, though they don’t gvg like IoJ does.

t3 is terrible. Having fought Mag, DB, and SBI recently, each server only has a few gems and a sea of rubbish. PYRO is okay, VR is okay, every other guild on Mag is average to trash. Weak pugs. Solid roamers. SBI has great zerg pugs, terrible otherwise, no serious guilds. DB is just all around pretty terrible in just about every conceivable way.

Tier 3 is not the fights tier at this moment. I’d say of all tiers I’ve been in, it’s among the worst for fights.

Mag, you cannot makes a fights tier when you have so few fights guilds. You can’t do it. You’ll need to get way more fights guilds before we’re anywhere near making t3 a fights tier. Until then, it’s one of the most abominable PPT tiers around, with Mag’s scrub ppters (sfd/fail) fighting db’s ppters (everyone in SEA) with some poor 3rd server caught in the middle of the ajs.

Organization increases the higher you go up and decreases the lower down you go generally. So organization-wise, t1-2 blow every other server out of the water. t3-5 tend to have basic organization, far superior use of voip and scouts than bronze, but they tend to have similar levels of organization in regards to things like private forums and whatnot (Dh has some but they’re rarely used) as there is in bronze. They also don’t get nearly as much TS participation as t2, but it’s still far above bronze.

As far as servers with standout communities, I’d put forth the following:

NSP: The most resilient and diehard community around. Spent months in the grinder of t3, came out mostly intact.

IoJ: Similarly resilient community, didn’t survive t3 as well as NSP did but those that stayed also seem die-hard and loyal. Easily the funniest/most entertaining server around (they’re definitely a troll server, old school Maguuma-esque).

Dh: (disclaimer: this is my server, but I’ll try to be fair) A community/fights focused server. Lots of guilds here, guilds love each other and get along generally. Guilds, while focused on fights, are also focused on building a community that wants to stick together (we’ve gotten a tonnnn of transfers in recent memory, I don’t think 1 single full guild of any size has left the server, those that disbanded/went inactive had the majority of their players disperse into Dh guilds instead of leaving).

SBI: They have fun and they don’t care what anyone else thinks. One of the best commanders in the game (Bannok) who leads very organized pug zergs (they give guilds a run for their money). Excessively organized for a pug server, lots of scouts and effective defense.

These are the only 4 standout communities I’ve noticed in my time in silver. Bronze all servers have a flavor and a community, but I don’t recommend moving there honestly so I won’t speak on that subject.

Quednau.7390:

Ive been fighting for this server for over 2years now and its starting to upset me that my server no longer plays to win the match up.. Theres a matchup forum website where guilds argue and scold one another for “PPTtryharding”, so now we have many great guilds who dont give a crap about PPT.. Our pugs try to hold what tick and upgraded keeps they have but cant hold off against the enemy zergs.. Now our top guilds sit outside stonemist or each other’s keeps waiting for the enemies to show up for a fight. They dont care that we’re whispering them for help in our borderlands. I just dont understand why they cant cap points, defend and find fights at the same time.

Q, we do still play to win matchups, we just realize when matchups aren’t winnable. We were behind HoD by like 15k on thursday, yet we ended up winning. Even our fights guilds suck it up and are willing to do some ppt when push comes to shove. The issue is Mag has insane coverage, and after having seen t3 not many people want to go back so people don’t even want to try.

Though to be clear, on some level I do agree with you. I find it silly at times, guilds will run to the other end of the map to fight at the orange swords, but won’t cata the wall of a tower down right in front of them even though an enemy guild is inside the tower.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Ooh, interesting probability there for us to roll DH and Mag. I would love to see that matchup happen.

The prophecy is real.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Arius.7031:

Lord Kuru.3685:

What everyone says. NSP has been extremely stable with very few transfers in or out. That NSP is in T3 after being in T7 just shows how much population has declined over the course of a year or two.

Oh, and I don’t believe Devon’s been on NSP in over a year, or Jessica for that matter — they probably bandwagoned like everyone else…

we do have one pretty cool dev who’s on every night (seems to understand the issues facing WvW).

NSP is far, far larger than they were in t7 lol. I was a permanent resident of t6/7 on Darkhaven, and anyone who says a current t4 server’s pop is comparable to that of t6-7 a while ago is quite incorrect. T6/7 were not anywhere near what t4/3 is right now.

NSP also did receive quite a few transfers lol, esp from SoR when it imploded a 2nd time.

It’s not just about others imploding, that’s a big part, but they also grew substantially.

I’ve been on NSP for over three years and I can tell you NSP’s population has decreased overall during this time and has also decreased somewhat since it was in T7.

There were transfers when SoR imploded — they have been excellent contributors — but it was not a big number, certainly not big enough to say NSP is far larger than before nor that it’s grown substantially. And don’t forget, there were transfers out of NSP during all this time as well.

So I stand by my statement that NSP is roughly the same size (or smaller) now compared to when we were in T7 (a year and a half ago).

Look lol, I was in t6 a year and a half ago (read: higher ranked than NSP), and it was smaller than current t3/4 is. You’re welcome to maintain what you will, but as another bronze leaguer since forever, I just can’t agree with that sentiment. Not only do I see and experience that you guys are bigger than you were, I know for a fact we are bigger… If we are bigger than when we were in t6, and just barely competing with you in t4 now, how could you be smaller from when you were in t7 at the same time as we were in t6?

Lord Kuru.3685:

What everyone says. NSP has been extremely stable with very few transfers in or out. That NSP is in T3 after being in T7 just shows how much population has declined over the course of a year or two.

Oh, and I don’t believe Devon’s been on NSP in over a year, or Jessica for that matter — they probably bandwagoned like everyone else…

we do have one pretty cool dev who’s on every night (seems to understand the issues facing WvW).

NSP is far, far larger than they were in t7 lol. I was a permanent resident of t6/7 on Darkhaven, and anyone who says a current t4 server’s pop is comparable to that of t6-7 a while ago is quite incorrect. T6/7 were not anywhere near what t4/3 is right now.

NSP also did receive quite a few transfers lol, esp from SoR when it imploded a 2nd time.

It’s not just about others imploding, that’s a big part, but they also grew substantially.

Deli.1302:

Then you’d get people complaining about imbalanced matchups. You also neglect to consider that there are people and guilds that want to face certain opponents consistently because they provide the best fights to them.

Why would we complain about imbalanced matchups anymore than we do? FA dominates T2, T2 reject of the week dominates T3, and JQ usually wins T1. Furthere, it’s not necessarily the case matches would be imbalanced. EU matches, when a t2 server gets into t1, are often quite competitive (as I’ve previously mentioned, just last week the 5th ranked server, basically their version of YB, beat the 1st place server and second place, basically JQ/TC).

I’m suggesting that it’d be best if we could have a setup that ALREADY EXISTS in EU.

You don’t know that. Coverage is still a factor.

Sure, I don’t know that if you quit smoking it’d be more healthy for you… but I can still say you’ll be more healthy if you stop smoking. The possibility that an alternative could occur does not negate a person’s ability to rationally state something will happen lol. Like I said, if the destacking occurred in a balanced fashion, t3 could reach a point where it’d compete with t2 w/o winning.

You mean less guilds to fight? The less guilds on a server the less guilds to fight. logic. 2 guilds spread across 24 servers or 8 guilds across 6 servers. Which gets more fights? This game doesn’t have enough wvw guilds left to spread across servers. Get over it.

I used the word “overall” for a reason. Do you know how many guilds are on my small t4 server? There are 8+ guilds that raid freuqently in a zerg busting capacity, with 10+ people, including OCX and SEA guilds. We have 4 guilds who GvG frequently in 15s, and at one who I believe can do 20s now. Further, we have multitudes of non zerg busting guilds that exist.

I said the OVERALL amount of guilds would increase. I did not say there’d be more guilds in any specific matchup. T3 would obviously be far more active, t1 would be somewhat less, t2 would be somewhat less. So even if you think having the most guilds in a specific matchup, with 0 variety and 0 ability to fight other guilds in WvW, you CANNOT argue that it’s not a valid reason to say there’s more guilds overall to fight because you’d be drawing the large amount of native t3 guilds into the mix.

Further, it wouldn’t even be a massive reduction in guilds for t2/1. You do realize it’s 100% a myth that t3 don’t have off hours guilds right? My server has 3 guilds that run SEA, 1 that does so daily, and 1 guild that runs ocx (we actually have queues lasting well into early ocx), + pugs. HoD has 1 Ocx and 1 SEA guild + pugs. We’re not as lively as t2 at all, but you it’s not like we’d just get wiped off the map instantly. Off hours are less populated overall, so the amount of off hours guilds we’d need wouldn’t be as large as you seem to think it’d be.

You know full well server population has nothing to do with wvw population. Anet has made transfer to servers free and even that never patched up any coverage holes. Let’s be realistic here.

Yes, I know, but that’s 100% irrelevant. Anet made it so you can’t transfer to full servers, it makes it a pain to transfer to these servers. If DB can’t compete in NA against FA, it needs NA guilds, but it can’t get those if the server itself has the full status almost 24/7. That’s a problem, because that makes t2 impossible to be balanced (and generally guilds moving up try to move up in zones that they feel they can help in, unless it’s ocx/sea which have such low pop where sometimes they just want ppl to play with).

5. It’ll make the mobility between tiers not so screwed up like it is now. If a server wants to get into t2, it won’t have to beat on tier 3 servers for ages to drain glicko. Whenever that sorta thing happens, like it’s happening in t3 and t6 right now, it’s damaging to the game’s population.

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