Guild Wars 2

Jeknar.6184:

I find it funny that you people say you would hate having your server merged with another because you don’t want the people from these other servers with you. What would you do if these people trasferred to your server then? Would you leave it? No, I know you wouldn’t (you would need to be a cyber-xenophobic idiot to do so)… You problably would find a way to either avoid them (by constantly avoiding the map where these people are) or you would try make up with them.

Also, stop talking like if a merge would make everyone from your server disapear… They would be there, but there would be more people too. Don’t you welcome new transfers to your server? Why you would hate people from other servers then when actually that’s what transfers are?

And Arius, please stop…. You know there are only 3 servers in bronze that have a reasonable all-round coverage (GoM, DR and DH) and even these have holes which people could pretty much fill. Omega rushing empty keeps isn’t fighting. As I’m posting your server have 450ppt and is already almost 30k ahead of the 2nd. How can you come here and say SoR and EBay have coverage to fight your server?

Someone once posted on these forums:

• High ppt means no enemies = PvDoor empty towers/keeps
• Low ppt means no allies = Severely outnumbered
• Balanced ppt means, well, balance = Enemies to fight while having allies

Uh Jeknar… You do realize that Ebay matched us during oceanic/sea on the first day of this matchup right, and even beat us horribly during the first half of oceanic on the 2nd day (taking 365 ppt)? http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/46/ We’ve had to hit them hard and early to even try to stop them from being a major pain to us at night. Their coverage isn’t as bad as you seem to think it is. We just have better coverage in those hours.

No, I probably wouldn’t leave the server, I just wouldn’t enjoy WvW as much. You can’t avoid a server full of people, they become pugs in your pug zergs, guildies in your guild groups… it’s not like all ET players for example would be confined to a certain map lol. I’ve dealt with significant portions of many other server communities, and as a general rule of thumb I really do not like them. At all. I don’t want to be server mates with them if I can avoid it. Also, look at HoD. You see what happened when a ton of people merged into one server? It’s different than just a guild or two and a few pugs. When a full server’s worth of people merge into another, there’s a lot more change. It can go smoothly, perhaps, but I see no reason to believe it will, and at least SOME reason to believe it won’t (looking at HoD and how much drama/in fighting goes on there).

Blix.8021:

Arius.7031:

Reverence.6915:

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Jeknar.6184:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

There’s a vocal minority in the low tiers that think it’s awesome to have empty borderlands and no off hours coverage.

Even in tier 1 there are usually 1-2 maps with nothing going on. There’s a reason why higher tier servers have more people: more people find it fun when there’s actual enemies to fight.

Are you actually in the low tiers? This is only REMOTELY true for t8. T7 and up (and even the top t8 server, whether or not that turns out to be AR or Ebay it doesn’t matter) do have off hour coverage. Darkhaven, for example, hits 40+ zergs during oceanic and sea, during sea we hit 40+ and have a guild of 20+ frequently, on week days. Darkhaven, Devona’s Rest, and Kaineng all have large night crews like this. Ferguson’s Crossing, Ehmry Bay, Anvil Rock, and Gates of Madness all have solid oceanic/sea (GoM has the strongest Oceanic in all of bronze, hitting massive numbers with 1-2 large zergs often, Ehmry bay is passable but can disappear easily though). Eredon Terrace and Sorrow’s Furnace are the only servers with no off oceanic/sea coverage.

Again, idk if you just aren’t a low tier server player, or a day time only person. I’m from Darkhaven, I play all time zones as I have a rotating schedule through the week (particularly, I play a LOT of SEA/EU/NA with some oceanic thrown in). I have fought ALL of these servers over the past 10 weeks, each of them at least once, many of them far more than once. I know what I’m talking about, and will get pictures of it right now if needed (it’s 12:50 AM, I can get pictures over the course of the next few hours if anyone requires me to prove my point).

Seems like T6 and T7 have more Oceanic than T1 and T2 from what you’re saying. Stop spouting BS. T1 can barely get more than 60 players into WvW during an average weeknight during Oceanic prime. We PvDoor keeps down with 5 players. This is Tier 1 I’m talking about. T2 is even worse, with DB having non-existent forces and Mag fielding maybe 30 on a good night and only SoS fielding a sizable force. SEA is only marginally better, but that’s usually JQ PvDooring down everything in sight.

If T2 can just barely match T6 or T7 for numbers, then why the hell is there such a big gap in “coverage”.

Ugh, today happened to be a slow day unfortunately so my point can’t be adequately demonstrated that we almost always have very large numbers in WvW during oceanic/sea. We’re a server where SEA is our strength, on a week day, in oceanic, we have 20+ currently in our zerg. Check my attached image, pay closer attention to the mini map as this pic was rushed. You should be able to clearly tell that’s 20+, and we have multiple havoc groups (e.g. DM) currently going, as well as home BL defenders/pugs running around randomly.

One huge difference is in organization. Dh doesn’t do great in Oceanic even though we generally outnumber everyone cus we’re just pugs. But, when SEA comes along, we have a large (for our tier/time zone) SEA zerg busting ppt guild that generally catapults us way up on the ppt. Organization is that big of a deal, any server that has it will have a huge advantage in off hours. Another general note is that night crews are notoriously easy to scare off, one wipe diminishes your zerg largely. Thus, if one server has a slight advantage in coverage during this time, you can easily see them scare off their would-be competition.

Ask a bronze league person how many people GoM can have on during their oceanic omega rushes. Ask a bronze league person how many Dh has on during SEA. They might not agree with my exact numbers, but they’ll tell you the same thing, it’s not insignificant.

If you moved to tier 1 or 2 you would have actual players to fight instead of omega rushing poorly defended low tier keeps. In tier 1-2 oceanic pvding actually has a chance to met with resistance, from defenders or map hopping groups communicating on server TS or whispering commanders on other maps. It’s a completely different (i.e. better) game at the higher tiers. It’s an actual 24 hour war, like it should be. That’s why people come to the higher tiers, and that’s why they stay.

Hmm okay. I thought we met resistance when 20+ of us got wiped in lords room of SoR’s keep without siege. I guess it’s too bad we never get resistance in lower tiers!

P.S. We were omega rushing a t3 fully 1,700 sup keep with siege and defenders in the picture LOL.

Reverence.6915:

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Jeknar.6184:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

There’s a vocal minority in the low tiers that think it’s awesome to have empty borderlands and no off hours coverage.

Even in tier 1 there are usually 1-2 maps with nothing going on. There’s a reason why higher tier servers have more people: more people find it fun when there’s actual enemies to fight.

Are you actually in the low tiers? This is only REMOTELY true for t8. T7 and up (and even the top t8 server, whether or not that turns out to be AR or Ebay it doesn’t matter) do have off hour coverage. Darkhaven, for example, hits 40+ zergs during oceanic and sea, during sea we hit 40+ and have a guild of 20+ frequently, on week days. Darkhaven, Devona’s Rest, and Kaineng all have large night crews like this. Ferguson’s Crossing, Ehmry Bay, Anvil Rock, and Gates of Madness all have solid oceanic/sea (GoM has the strongest Oceanic in all of bronze, hitting massive numbers with 1-2 large zergs often, Ehmry bay is passable but can disappear easily though). Eredon Terrace and Sorrow’s Furnace are the only servers with no off oceanic/sea coverage.

Again, idk if you just aren’t a low tier server player, or a day time only person. I’m from Darkhaven, I play all time zones as I have a rotating schedule through the week (particularly, I play a LOT of SEA/EU/NA with some oceanic thrown in). I have fought ALL of these servers over the past 10 weeks, each of them at least once, many of them far more than once. I know what I’m talking about, and will get pictures of it right now if needed (it’s 12:50 AM, I can get pictures over the course of the next few hours if anyone requires me to prove my point).

Seems like T6 and T7 have more Oceanic than T1 and T2 from what you’re saying. Stop spouting BS. T1 can barely get more than 60 players into WvW during an average weeknight during Oceanic prime. We PvDoor keeps down with 5 players. This is Tier 1 I’m talking about. T2 is even worse, with DB having non-existent forces and Mag fielding maybe 30 on a good night and only SoS fielding a sizable force. SEA is only marginally better, but that’s usually JQ PvDooring down everything in sight.

If T2 can just barely match T6 or T7 for numbers, then why the hell is there such a big gap in “coverage”.

Ugh, today happened to be a slow day unfortunately so my point can’t be adequately demonstrated that we almost always have very large numbers in WvW during oceanic/sea. We’re a server where SEA is our strength, on a week day, in oceanic, we have 20+ currently in our zerg. Check my attached image, pay closer attention to the mini map as this pic was rushed. You should be able to clearly tell that’s 20+, and we have multiple havoc groups (e.g. DM) currently going, as well as home BL defenders/pugs running around randomly.

One huge difference is in organization. Dh doesn’t do great in Oceanic even though we generally outnumber everyone cus we’re just pugs. But, when SEA comes along, we have a large (for our tier/time zone) SEA zerg busting ppt guild that generally catapults us way up on the ppt. Organization is that big of a deal, any server that has it will have a huge advantage in off hours. Another general note is that night crews are notoriously easy to scare off, one wipe diminishes your zerg largely. Thus, if one server has a slight advantage in coverage during this time, you can easily see them scare off their would-be competition.

Ask a bronze league person how many people GoM can have on during their oceanic omega rushes. Ask a bronze league person how many Dh has on during SEA. They might not agree with my exact numbers, but they’ll tell you the same thing, it’s not insignificant.

Jeknar.6184:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

1. Not all of us want to be in a larger populated server than we currently are. I like my server’s population, if say ET were added into my server, we’d have far too many people for my tastes.

2. Community. I don’t like the communities of various servers, and same with many people. I don’t like, for example, Sorrow’s Furnace as a general rule. They’re jerks, everyone in bronze knows it, and they prove it every matchup they participate in. Nobody likes them, would you want to fuse with them? A lot of us have similar problems with lower ranked servers.

3. There’s a better solution, scaling transfer costs. That is, t8 = free, t7 = 200 gems, t6 = 500 and so on. These numbers need not be set in stone, but you get the idea.

4. Even if we don’t do anything, what will happen is better than what would happen if we did server merges. To elaborate, servers rise and fall CONSTANTLY. Look at Dh, we were t5, even t4, for a long time. We sank to t7, then rose to be the king of t6 for AGES. Now we’re in t7, will we suddenly never rise again? Look at Devona’s Rest, they were t8 forever, now they’re one of the strongest t6 servers. Look at GoM, t8, now t5 and may go higher. This goes on and on. Servers rise and fall constantly, that’s the beauty of WvW.

5. Finally, it decreases the variety of communities in WvW. I like having many distinct communities. The Community on Ferguson’s Crossing is drastically different from the community on Sorrow’s Furnace for example. FC emphasizes small scale, duels, multiple small guild groups (15-25). SF emphasizes large scale, anything to win, a few massive guild groups (the legendary 40-50 CoSA and LORD blobs). Every single community has some distinct identity like this, and I’m willing to list each one to demonstrate my point if needed.

tl;dr

fite me irl bro

Blix.8021:

Jeknar.6184:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

There’s a vocal minority in the low tiers that think it’s awesome to have empty borderlands and no off hours coverage.

Even in tier 1 there are usually 1-2 maps with nothing going on. There’s a reason why higher tier servers have more people: more people find it fun when there’s actual enemies to fight.

Are you actually in the low tiers? This is only REMOTELY true for t8. T7 and up (and even the top t8 server, whether or not that turns out to be AR or Ebay it doesn’t matter) do have off hour coverage. Darkhaven, for example, hits 40+ zergs during oceanic and sea, during sea we hit 40+ and have a guild of 20+ frequently, on week days. Darkhaven, Devona’s Rest, and Kaineng all have large night crews like this. Ferguson’s Crossing, Ehmry Bay, Anvil Rock, and Gates of Madness all have solid oceanic/sea (GoM has the strongest Oceanic in all of bronze, hitting massive numbers with 1-2 large zergs often, Ehmry bay is passable but can disappear easily though). Eredon Terrace and Sorrow’s Furnace are the only servers with no off oceanic/sea coverage.

Again, idk if you just aren’t a low tier server player, or a day time only person. I’m from Darkhaven, I play all time zones as I have a rotating schedule through the week (particularly, I play a LOT of SEA/EU/NA with some oceanic thrown in). I have fought ALL of these servers over the past 10 weeks, each of them at least once, many of them far more than once. I know what I’m talking about, and will get pictures of it right now if needed (it’s 12:50 AM, I can get pictures over the course of the next few hours if anyone requires me to prove my point).

Hope not without some restrictions. Last time that happened, ET and Darkhaven (both bronze league servers) lost massive portions of their population, and HoD (silver league, t5, considered the ideal place to be for many people) bandwagoned massively into t3 and maybe even t2. Not a great outcome imo, destroying some small servers to help some moderately sized servers is kittened.

LimitBreaker.4165:

Zanshin.5379:

If the 2 from silver league were the worst and the 2 from bronze league were the best, I don’t see where the problem is.

GoM did not lose once in the tournament, how is it fair that we(SF) get put with silvers and they get put with bronze they were technically the best in bronze :L

How much did you lose to gom by most recently? Like 10k? It’s not like SF is so far below GoM. That’s the point of semi random matchups, to keep things interesting. The alternative is much, much worse (as most of us who remember it will tell you).

BHo.6234:

Tongue out smiley means I am joking. Calm down Arius and Jeknar. Keep your forum warrior crap for the matchup threads. MEAN is fun to fight. Good guild from what I can see.

:O. Overreaction! Old habbits and all that good stuff.

Retribution.3058:

I wouldn’t say that it’s low.. It’s simply strategic for servers to try and sway other guilds to them.. Especially with free transfers before seasons, although we’ll see whether or not that continues. Hell, we appreciate the recognition. But anyways, let’s try to keep this topic on track.

We mostly say that cus DR has already drained tons of guilds from other servers, practically destroyed ET, and Dh has already lost a ton. All those things considered, I think it’d be pretty low to try to recruit from dh to dr under those circumstances.

(bump)

Straegen.2938:

Most players pick a server initially by using some arbitrary means when they first log in.

Why stay “loyal” to a server that is picked by some random chance? Why should someone be rewarded for stagnation?

Besides a player meets more people by moving around and has a better chance of meeting a larger circle of online friends by transferring on occasion. Who knows, your next best online mate may be one transfer away.

People are born into families by random chance. See the fundamental problem with that argument? Nobody says that because you picked that server that therefore you should be loyal/should be rewarded for being loyal. I doubt anyone would care if you created a character and then transferred off as a level 1 (or deleted your char to transfer, whatever).

The loyalty should come from fighting side-by-side with these people day in and day out. While every other server in the game is trying to murder you as quickly as possible, the people you’re currently on a server with are trying to help/save you as much as they can. How many times have we experienced some innocent guy run up and try to rez us while we’re downed, knowing he’s probably just gonna get himself killed? Fighting alongside each other should naturally create a bond, even in a game, and it has for a great many people. I still can’t force myself to leave Darkhaven, no matter how bad everything looks, because I simply care about my community too much.

Server V Server is more unique, and creatures stronger ties than being simply in the same faction (that you can transfer from. Not to mention “order warfare” has loads of problems like completely destroying the lore (remember, these 3 factions are allied atm in lore and probably will continue to be for the living world).

BHo.6234:

Why don’t you guys just come to DR :P

Lol. Low, really low.

Mean is a great guild guys. I’m not part of it myself, but have seen them in action in WvW and they’re a truly amazing group (not being touchy feely, seriously, they don’t give in and always try to do what’s best for Darkhaven). Consider them if this sounds like something you want to be a part of.

robertul.3679:

1) Having the highest skillcap is fun for some.
2)Having a lot of utility at your disposal is also fun.
3) Accepting you’ll never be pretty because of hobosacks makes you a better human being by being less judgemental to the shortcomings of others.

1) Ele and thief provide similar skill caps.
2) Like ele :o.
3) True.

To the OP, I think it’s for numerous reasons. A lot of people thought power builds died last patch, outside of the new might stacking power meta (everyone is strength/hoelbrak etc…). Tons rerolled condi builds/classes. Engineers saw build diversity increase as turrets were buffed hugely, and now a good turret engi is virtually unbeatable on a point. SPvP Engis are in a very good place, roaming in WvW, etc… Engineer itself hasn’t really changed, it has always been high skillcap and always had high utility, but that didn’t make people play it before so idk why it would now. I think it’s due to the most recent patch and the (perceived) shift in the meta.

Rize Jodo.1276:

The tournament standings may not be a great indicator of current strengths among servers in the bronze league due to the great migrations that occurred just prior and during the season. Ebay and ET lost members and guilds prior to the tournament due to cheap transfers and there was another power shift when Kain, DH, SF lost members with the launch of the China servers. I am not super knowledgeable of what happened but it’s what I heard. I love Ebay and hope we never lose our identity but I am afraid that this may be the only answer…

Atherakhia.4086:

I hope ANet will finally take note of how terrible these servers have become and will merge some of them.

Only thing I can think of is taking the 3 smallest servers Ebay, ET, Kain and merging them with the three above them creating: ET+SF, Kain+DH, and Ebay+Anvil. As much as I don’t like that idea I would prefer it to them just disbanding any servers completely. Oh well Anet said there would be changes to WvW later this year so we’ll just have to wait and see.

Edit: Purely speculation but I see an EotM like format for all of WvW with 3 server “teams” that are rotated and then fixed during tournaments based on how the regular season went.

Dh had a mass exodus, nothing to do with china. We lost BRL, which was comprised of 3 guilds cus there were too many for 1, FiN (large prime zerg busting guild), VoC (large prime zerg busting guild), ANBU (a 500 man PvX guild that had a large presence in WvW), FOOD (good havoc guild), and a bunch of random pugs.

Atherakhia.4086:

Crunk n monkey.3749:

Let’s just say Season/Tournaments shouldn’t happen because people complain about them.

You make it sound like their complaints aren’t justified. People complain because ANet has failed to make a balanced product after 2 years.

And that’s the season’s fault, obviously. It’s not like it wasn’t balanced before season 2 (sarcasm). People are blaming season 2 for what they perceive to be problems with WvW in general, that’s blaming the wrong thing. If anything this is more balanced because strong servers can have to repeatedly beat on weaker servers just to move up tiers, whereas with leagues the matches were constantly shifting and settling around relatively balanced matchups.

Sobiech.9613:

Darkhaven

It was a portion of the namesake of a sworn enemy (but good group of people off the Boarderlands), Sorrow’s Furnace.

The more you know.

Oh dear. Darkhaven and Sorrow’s Furnace hate each other like almost no other, and yet, we’re named after a part of SF?

This is a lot to take in.

oZii.2864:

For what purpose?

He’s saying since eles have a lot of natural access to condis, one need not even spec for condis to do significant condi damage with a set like rampagers. I don’t think it’d be stronger than berserker’s mind you, just that’s what he’s saying I believe.

Dragon’s tooth hits like a truck, on a super low cooldown, in an AoE, with a blast finisher. It may be easy to dodge, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have it’s place (cleave on an enemy body, spike damage on cc’d foe, opportunistic use of fields etc…)… It doesn’t need buffs. It really is an interesting skill with a lot of interesting, even if situational, uses.

For Darkhaven:

[BRL], [FIN], and [ANBU] (our three biggest guilds by far) are now on HoD.
[FOOD] is now on Sorrow’s Furance.
[VoC] is now on Db (iirc).
[MATE] is now on ET under the tag [BS] (mostly).
[YAKS] and [ONE] disbanded ([ONE] was old anyway, they fused into [FIN] long ago).
[XSV]‘s remnants on Dh don’t WvW, so not a wvw guild (I believe 90% of them are also on HoD).

Fun time to be on Dh, free transfers really worked out for us… You can ADD [HM] and [MEAN] to the list though.

[TBT] from AR moved to DR.

Fergusson’s Crossing list should include:

[YARR], [MAIN], [EDGE], [WZ], [EmP]

ET should include:

[BS]

arKRazor.8654:

In b4 Jeknar

You beat me to it :/.

What.5743:

Seal The Deal [HVN] Darkhaven (Waaaaaaay long time ago. Like when orbs were in WvW long time ago. Anyone remember him?)

The Half Naked Norn! Yes I still remember him lol! Good stuff.

Grampa – Darkhaven

Suika.4567:

-We (DR) are going for the win. We are not collaborating or coordinating with GOM in ANY way.

We are currently behind you by about 4,000 points, why wouldn’t we attack your stuff to try and close that gap?

If you’re trying to beat server 1 as server 3, focusing server 2 to close the gap is a super bad strategy. I’m either left to conclude DR is utterly idiotic when it comes to strategy, or your claims don’t line up. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Consistently, every day during prime, Dh has more waypoints than either of the other two servers. Yet, consistently, DR has focused our BL and taken our stuff more often than they have GoM. This is extremely odd since Dh tends to “bunker down” instead of going on the offensive, and thus will have WAY more defenders in our BL than are in GoM BL.

Evidence: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Devona's-Rest

Devona’s overall score: 7% comes from GoM’s BL, 9% from Dh. This means, from taking stuff from our UPGRADED and DEFENDED bl, you’ve somehow gotten around 20% more points from us than from GoM.

On a side note, we actually HAVE been focusing GoM (I refer you to the same site). Today we camped their entire BL during prime, only to have you (unintentional I believe) double team force us to lose 2 of our WPs. That’s why, I’m sure you can understand, many Dh players are upset. We could both be fighting for first, but DR seems to have given up and instead is fighting for 2nd.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Arius.7031:

But what happens when the lowest and the highest server gang up on the middle server? Is that working as intended? Is that cool, does it promote fun play for all involved? Let me give background.

Yes, it is working as intended. WvW is a 3 player game. 2v1 happens. Anet has said that this is intended, they said it last season when SBI got hit with a gnarly doubleteam. Nothing has changed now.

Saying something works as expected is not the same as saying it works as intended. If I build a machine and expect people to abuse it, that does not mean I intended it to be abused. They may have expected 2v1’s to take place, even two stronger servers to gang up on the weakest server, that doesn’t mean it’s INTENDED to be that way, or that it’s a good thing.

Try to get the point next time please. I never said I thought it was illegal or anything like that. Just that it wasn’t good.

Kigera.9584:

Hopefully someone can find them and repost it here but most people who read these forums are familiar with two dev quotes. One of them can be simplified to “Two weaker servers joining up to face a stronger one is one of the intent behind a 3 way server battle.” The other can be simplified as “WvW is not meant to be fair.”

Anet is not going to intervene in a 2v1 when they have implied in the past that it is logical move. Instead of crying about it on the forums how about you start working on counter measures to either oppose it or break it up.

But what happens when the lowest and the highest server gang up on the middle server? Is that working as intended? Is that cool, does it promote fun play for all involved? Let me give background.

Today, we spent our entire day taking glorious revenge on GoM for many uncalled for golem rushes. They rushed us again, and again, throughout the day/night, trying to paper our stuff. They eventually succeeded (on dr as well). They continued to golem rush our paper stuff.

Recently, our top commander returned (the ever glorious Grampa of Dh). He’s intent on winning first and not giving up because the situation looks dim. We’re about 25k behind GoM. He heads straight for GoM’s BL, papered it completely. Then he goes to EB, papered their EB keep and then their waypointed SM. We then karma train GoM and DR bl a couple of times. Eventually, Grampa decides to split our zerg, one in eb, one in GoM BL and leave DR COMPLETELY ALONE. We have waypoints in ALL of our keeps, our BL is defended by dozens of people (unlike dr/gom bl), and we have zergs ready to maphop at a moments notice and defend our keeps.

What happens next? Instead of DR, say, taking GoM’s papered bl, or focusing on EB, they rush our heavily defended/upgraded BL. Weird choice amirite? What does GoM do? Instead of defending/retaking their own bl (which Dh owns most of), instead of hitting the paper DR bl, they hit our heavily guarded/upgraded BL. Instead of EVER FIGHTING EACH OTHER in our bl, they rush our keeps/towers simultanousely, stretching our forces to their absolute limits, and eventually forcing us to lose two of our waypoints.

All the time, they’re barely fighting each other. I don’t know if it’s intentional, and I don’t care to whine. But you will forgive us if we find this situation incredibly stupid and annoying.

As to people commenting about war not being fair. This is a game about war, not war. If something is unfair it can detract from the fun of the situation. That doesn’t mean fairness should necessarily be enforced, but perhaps encouraged. It’s not cool for the server that’s not winning to be ganged up on, it just isn’t. So try to understand where Dh people here are coming from, even if you don’t agree with them.

Relentliss.2170:

I don’t think we are balanced when we only have 1 effective build for each game mode.

Changes over the last year have not created any build diversity.

WvW roaming:

Healway
Medi burst
Boonspam builds

Dueling:

Medi builds (both burst and sustain)
Might stacking bunker (currently one of the strongest builds in the game period, thanks to new runes/sigils)
Standard shout builds (usually something like 0/5/30/30/5 with knights/cav/bers/cleric mixes/valk mixes)
Healway (healway is virtually unbeatable in duels, you either draw or you win, though there are a lot of draws LOL)

SPvP:

Standard guard bunker
DPS medi burst (admittedly not the best in general but still viable)

The build variety for guard is nearly as strong as it is for any other class… stronger than a lot in fact (ranger and ele in specific have very little build diversity, in fact, rangers are literally BAD at entire segments of the game (e.g. wvw zergs and to a lesser extent wvw roaming).

Sauncho.8076:

This comment absolutely irks me to no end. And it’s comments like these that have kept us stagnant for 1 1/2 years. Yes, guardians are good at bunkering and “supporting.” In PVE that’s fine I guess, but that’s PVE. What about dps/burst in PVP. Because as it stands a Warrior can pull just as much dps/burst as a guardian, yet not have to give up nearly as much survivability. I guess Meds are “ok,” but require twice the amount of effort as other specs. One mistake and you are dead.

Guardian dps builds, thanks to natural might stacking capabilities and synergy with altruistic healing, are exceedingly potent right now. Slap on empowering might, altruistic healing, shouts, grab sigil of battle/strength, you can build yourself with mostly knights/cav and you will hit like a TRUCK. I duel in wvw and spvp day in, and day out, with 3.5k armor I still can kill most classes relatively quickly with scepter/focus and gs (you just have to be a decent player). No need for a medi burst build.

Beyond that, not all classes are the same. Sure, we don’t dps as well as wars when geared for it (I’ll grant it but I don’t think it’s true), but they don’t support as well as we do, they don’t bunker as well as we do, etc…

Our vigor was nerfed (which we rely on more than most other professions), spirit weapons suck, signets suck, we have the lowest tier of health, are slow as molasses, and have no soft cc. Scepter orbs are still slow, scepter can be completely negated by strafing back and forth, Shield 4 is worthless, for some reason we have to stop and stand in our staff circle just to get a little mobility, the mace is slow, the hammer is slow, sword 2 (maybe it’s 3, I can’t remember) can be strafed, and on and on.

Strafing back and forth will only dodge if the scepter user is at a long range (600-700 units), you can safely kite at 400-500 and consistently hit your opponent from that range. Scepter has an immob with almost no tell, a really quickly reusable attack that can not be completely negated by strafing (you have to actively move out/dodge, which leaves you open to scepter autos). Shield 4 grants protect, is aoe, and hits fairly hard… it’s not amazing but it’s not useless. Sword 3 can be strafed but that’s how it should be, it hits like a truck and is ranged. The bigger problem with it is that is starts randomly missing some of it’s projectiles after a certain distance (sorta like a shotgun’s pellets start hitting a target less and less the further out it is).

On top of that our new traits are worthless….300 Vitality in the Honor line? No med guards goes all the way into the Honor line. Increased condition damage? All we have is burn. Aegis to those around us, but not ourselves? A condi/retal trait with horrible scaling in pvp.

Fair enough but that doesn’t mean we’re not in a good spot… They took a good step by trying to make condi guards more viable but it wasn’t enough. Instead of asking for guard as a class to be buffed, and saying it’s weak, we need to be asking for certain guard builds to be buffed… The weapons, the basic tenets of guard, work fine. Shout/medi builds perform adequately, consecrations see decent general use (e.g. wall of reflection for zergs/pve). It’s not our class that’s the problem, the class in general is fine where it is in the meta… we just (like EVERY other class I might add) need certain things made more viable. But this is not unique to guard, it is this way for every other class.

For the love of god please stop shooting yourself in the foot by stating guardians “are in a good place.” It’s absolute hogwash.

Sorry, but your arguments fail. They amount to “we have some things that are useless on guard, therefore guard isn’t in a good place”. It doesn’t work, cus it’s not true, and it also applies to every other class. Name me 1 class that doesn’t have tons of builds/utilities that aren’t very good at most types of content. This is a problem that is not unique to guard, so saying that therefore guard is unbalanced in a negative way ultimately fails hard.

ET struggles in pop but makes up for it in determination. They’ve been through more than any NA server and their players are still going strong. Much respect.

WvW is more populated on Darkhaven than it was during season 1… it was more populated during season 1 than it had been since the launch of the game. IDK what on earth you’re talking about, and I’m on a t6 server…

Yeah, you’re so much better than the rest of us at having more people. It’s not good enough for you that you’re secure at sixth, whereas the rest of the servers not in gold could hit 9th easily and get almost nothing… It’s not like you’ve destroyed our servers enough already (VoC from Dh went to DB, one of our main guilds), you deserve rewards for doing it too!

And that’s just discussing how unfair it is to give your server better rewards… wanna get into discussing how it’d further destroy our already lower population servers? You’re right. This is a selfish post.

You all should absolutely be ashamed of yourselves. People in this thread actually saying Guards are useless in ANY format? Guards of the backbones of every good comp in EVERY format (at the very least they’re very strong in PvE, they’re almost necessary in SPvP/WvW). Guardians are the backbone and driving force behind the hammer train, the warriors would die so fast w/o guards there to heal/buff and dish some damage too. Guards are among the top bunkers in the game, capable of surviving 1v2s for a loooooong time. Guardians are also one of/if not the (tied with ele imo) best group classes in the game with massive boon sharing and aoe condi cleanse (as well as aoe heals/blinds/aegis etc…). Guardians are absolutely in a great place right now. Saying they are isn’t a cop out, it’s the truth. You guys whine enough and get our class buffed, we’ll be ridiculously OP. After that, we’ll get nerfed into the ground and our class will be wrecked.

Seriously, stop being so whiny because you’re not owning everything in sight. We’re in a good place.

Zanshin.5379:

I don’t know why anybody would stick with the guardian at this point.

Try a might stacking bunker build (empowering might, sigil of strength/battle, rune of hoelbrak/strength, altruistic healing). My guard has 3.3k armor w/o trait 4 in 3rd line and hits like a truck with 20% crit dmg (purely from 30 in 3rd tree). Just aim for knights equips with maybe 2 cleric rings and a cleric backpiece. 0/5/30/30/5. One of the best dueling builds in the game at this moment by far, and great for general roaming too (as you give might to others as well).

I really think DR is being overestimated here to be completely honest.There was always a pretty big divide between t7 and t6, so DR beating 2 t7 servers doesn’t in my mind show they’re ready to beat any t6 servers. Don’t count them out though, that’s for sure.

Can anyone from DR share their queues on reset first week and queues during the rest of the matchup during na prime? SF had 4 on reset, Dh had 3, I hear FC had 1. SF continues to have at least 1 queue during prime time for eb (when I asked it was at 40 people during a weekday, and they had 2 other massive zergs in BLs).

Apathy.6430:

It never ceased to be an appreciation thread. You just mentioned faults, I’ve yet to see any.

Best support, best damage, best survivability, giant hammers.

Guardians have sub-par damage unless heavily specced for it (a guard with a balanced build and full soldiers will do less damage than a war with full soldiers and a balanced build, even if guard will do more damage on pure dps than war). Add onto that, it’s common knowledge at this point that Guardian is not the top DPS class, someone did a run down of it and they came out at I think 4th (behind ele, thief, and mesmer IIRC), may be 3rd.

Guardians have best support in certain situations, and weak support in others (e.g. in PvE ele and mesmer can both out support guardian with conjures/time warp etc…). Guardian support tends to excel in pvp situations and is helpful but not necessary in a lot of pve situations (mesmers can reflect better than guards in most cases, have access to time warp etc…).

Also, this is 30/30/30/30/30 build territory stuff, you cannot be the best at ALL 3. You will, perhaps, be ONE OF the best at one, good in another, and bad in another (e.g. healway is one of the best bunkers, good suport, bad dps).

Yeah this has been done thousands of times across GW2’s lifespan xD. Gratz on it but taking 695 ppt, during oceanic, in t6, isn’t the most impressive thing ever. Still though, gratz.

No. In fact, everyone I speak to in game is overwhelmed by the sheer quantity and quality of the upcoming updates. At best there are small problems here and there to most people, but on the whole these seem to be viewed very positively.

I have no problem with any part of the update server for plex being added to SPvP. All of it sounds absolutely amazing and I’m totally blown away personally.

Pie Flavor.1647:

Reikou.7068:

Because the game is more than just 1v1s.

not for thieves

There’s a reason every top GvG (or most) team runs a thief or two. Thieves have their place in zergs as well, it’s just not with the hammer train.

Bllade.1029:

ballymun.3986:

Jeknar.6184:

ballymun.3986:

I’m always amazed at the few abusive/toxic people from certain small/mediocre skilled servers who have determined they own said server and nobody else is welcome on same.

The more that transfer, the more these people’s voices are drowned out and gotten rid of from the server they claim to own.

And when all the bandwagoners leave, the people that called these guys ‘toxic’ will remember them and will say: “Looks like they were right…”

In what way would you ever think they were right ?

Who in their right mental state goes around shouting off abuse at random people to stop them joining a server, because they somehow think that server belongs to them.

90% of the transfers to HoD came here because HoD was the highest rated server with free transfers. People flocked here to win the season, or at least be part of a server that could compete with other silver league servers.

I like transfers, but what I don’t like are multiple 300+ member guilds coming in and sucking the life out of the community like leeches, they suck the community dry until their fat on their own egos, point fingers then hop off that host and find another one. It happens every. single. time.

It’s disgusting, and I hold very little compassion and respect for guilds like that.

Nothing I can do about it, but if this post dissuades just one of those guilds from coming here, i’ll consider this a success.

The solution for you, my friend, is obvious to everyone. Join Darkhaven. It’s the only logical choice. Can’t blame me for trying :/.

Bloodysnipez.8612:

Yo {KL} here were known as Krytanic Legacy n just xfered a few over to help reinforce ur NA time were a havok / roaming group. Looking for more. We have many Commanders so we will be covering time slots so join up n lets drop some fools.

Dat Bloody doh!

This is awesome, good to have you.

skullmount.1758:

Well sounds like we lost yet another guild ([Anbu]) to HoD. Soooo many lost….

Broken and dead guild with almost no wvw presence, don’t worry bout it.

1. GoM
2. SF
3. DR/Dh
4. DR/Dh
5. AR
6. FC
7. Kaineng.
8. Eredon Terrance
9. Ehmry Bay.

Despite Dh’s heavy losses, we do have a massive pve population to draw on, that’s what won us 2nd in last season even though SF were clear favorite for 2nd. DR is a complete wild card atm, we’ve only seen them do well against FC/AR, but neither of those servers are even close to being able to compete with GoM/SF (sf, last time they faced FC, beat them by hundreds of thousands, GoM also beat AR pretty bad last time they met them).

I think the 5/6 and 3/4 are the most up for grabs (as my list shows I can’t even begin to make a guess on 3/4). 1-4 is also really competitive and there could be an upset there from any server (SF holding back it’s true strength, DR’s massive transfers being enough to push them over, Dh’s massive PvE pop blotting out the sun of WvW).

THE Dentist.5960:

Good luck to you guys. DH has lost a few guilds, but they still show up to fight. If you are looking at the bronze tier, check this one out. Some good players out there on this server. I have always enjoyed fighting them.

Thank you for the kind words! We hope to be back in shape to challenge NSP as we have in the past. Hope to see you then :P.

Easterbunny.6170:

Bleh, didnt realize DH had lost that many. Crazy since you had a real shot at this thing seeing as Ebays drop kicks out NSP. I knew FC had lost some. Dr I know has picked up a bunch (so hopefully that takes them from Ghost town to semi-normal) and I have a sneaking suspicion that AR has picked up a few as well. ET I am not sure. They beat me out for Allstar’s little 10 man I know that.

To my knowledge we have picked up about 20 guys. a small guild group + panda’s pull ins.

My personal hope has been for us all to end up something like even from this. THAT is where the fun lies, in fighting fair fights on the open field and not having to go into some sandbox to GvG. That to me has always been the shining star of Bronze Leagues.

I actually really enjoy siege fights in keeps and towers too, but when you can pit yourself against someone else on one of the WvW maps and it MATTERS, that just the best.

I think GoM-Dh-SF is a really good matchup but I have a feeling DR is gonna kick us out of t6. We just don’t quite have the numbers anymore. We used to be so massive for bronze, now we’re large but just not large enough :/.

skullmount.1758:

Transfer costs should have been determined on a per current persons server basis. If you’re moving down the cheaper it would have gotten (to the point of free for maybe the bottom 4 servers?), and if you were moving up the more expensive it would have gotten (max 2400 like they did, for T1 servers). This would have given better reason to move down instead of people moving up.

QFT. It’s stupid that Dh’s ultimate implosion was due to people transferring up, not down. We needed people more than HoD, yet HoD gets all of our people. That’s just not right… it’s good maybe for leagues, but not for WvW.

Medazolam.3058:

Yeah who left FC? my guild [AoE] is pretty active in WvW and I have not noticed any major guilds leaving. I’m psyched that some new ones joined in, I’m sure they will be pleasantly surprised at the action they will find in the bronze league.

My friend in fc says it’s mostly pugs/commanders.

Easterbunny.6170:

you are telling me you have not as a BL commander hit 60 mans from SF this week?

Really dont want to make this into an argument, I can post more videos, I dont like doing that because all videos from everyone is of every time they are winning and are never an accurate portrait of WvW on the server, but I can very definitely show 60 mans in the borderlands.

Also im pretty sure outside of Kaineg we can all que EB sometimes. I dont even have to visit your server to guess that.

Yeah SF zergs sure, not Dh.

No, we cannot queue EB, come on over and take a peak. Many people simply do not understand how many people we have lost. And Dh has always been a server to spread out players in all coverage zones rather than have tons at any one point (cept sea, we used to have MASSIVE sea).

The only time you’ll see a 60 man zerg in dh is if he have no one in EB.

I’m wondering if people can give me an idea as to how their bronze server’s population has been changed by free transfers. As it stands, this is my understanding of it:

Sorrow’s furnace – Same.
Darkhaven – Severe losses.
Fergusson’s crossing – Some losses/gains, net loss.
Gates of Madness – Slight gains.
Devona’s Rest – Extreme gains.
Anvil Rock – Some losses/gains, net loss.
Eredon Terrance – Severe losses.
Ehmry Bay – Same.
Kaineng – Slight gains.

Is this about correct?

Easterbunny.6170:

Im once again guessing you both play in EB only. We can only que EB. The other maps are held by small teams and fight 60 vs 20 on a very regular basis.

Uh we never have 60 man zergs outside of EB, and we never queue any map. Also, I’m a BL commander/roamer…

No, GoM has more people than SF ATM in wvw. Now SF will probably more evenly match you in leagues, but right now you outnumber SF pretty heavily. I’m a Dh player (third server in this current matchup) and I hate SF so I don’t really have a bias towards them, just how I see it.

Also, Dh being the 2nd most populous server in bronze is no longer a given. We woulda easily beaten you both BUT we had a very massive exodus losing brl (a massive guild that could queue a map by themselves, made up maybe 1/3rd of all dh pug zergs), fin (20+ during prime time, many famous commanders/helpful players), VoC (similar to fin), food (skilled roaming guild), xsv (skilled roaming guild) and dozens if not hundreds of pugs lol. The fact that we’re keeping up with GoM/SF right now is nothing short of a full on miracle considering how many we’ve lost.

Edit: That said GoM is an excellent server skill-wise and you should definitely consider them. Just saying it’s not like they’re spartans beating back the persians in bronze.

Polyamorous Firefly.4071:

Devona’s Rest just gained Eredon Terrace’s main OCX/SEA Guild [BoM] now rep’d as [DmD]. 325+ Members if I recall correctly. On top of that, we have gotten [Zs] which is a smaller OCX/SEA Guild as well, can’t remember from where though. Our OCX/SEA crew is going to be monstrous. Our North American presence is already solid and we have pulled small guilds and roamers; keep seeing new faces every single day. It is awesome. Now if only I could convince [TBT] of AR to hop on board this freight train and come stomp faces with us. If not, oh well, I will keep trying at AR’s other smaller Guilds as well as other ET and Kaineng.

By the way. Free Transfers to DR. We now have 24/7 Coverage and are ready to roll through anything. Hop on board while the tickets are free! A move you will not regret.

Clearly a good use of the free transfers. Kill/hurt every t6 or lower server save for maybe 2 of said servers, and those turn into bandwagons (by bronze standards). I know Dh imploded, SF isn’t looking great, AR has lost and gained some, DR apparently gained a ton, ET imploded, Ebay hasn’t gone anywhere… Meanwhile pretty much every server lost tons to HoD. Lol. Good job anet, you hurt most servers but at least 3 or so of them are better off!

Straegen.2938:

Again it is a game… if someone wants to play for a reward then let them and save the judgement for something actually meaningful.

If someone wants to make a forum post to state their opinion, let them and save your judgement for something actually meaningful.

So I guess some of us can judge other people’s actions, but it’s not okay for others hmm?

I’m with Cantur ftr. I think there are times when it’s okay for a person to transfer, it is just a game… BUT, I think it’s extremely sad that people are so willing to ditch their friends/allies especially when they need them most (for leagues).