Guild Wars 2

TAG is an awesome guild and is very, very skilled. Quality over quantity with these guys, but they have some significant quantity when needed. Amazing group of players.

daydream.2938:

How is darkhaven in the off hours? I always assumed t6 was completely dead except for primetime.

As honest assessment I can give is this: You’re looking at at a 15-40 man zerg during sea/oceanic if there is a com, sometimes it can get a little lower a ways into the week depending on the matchup. The only time there isn’t any activity in sea/oceanic is if no com shows up (which does happen on occasion). The “all bronze servers are dead outside of primetime” thing is a myth I assure you. It slows down and is definitely less populated than higher tiers, but it isn’t that bad. I play mostly during oceanic/sea, so I speak from personal experience.

We also have a guild [SotD] that runs daily during SEA and has very strong numbers.

crudum.3278:

I’m not in their guild, but what can I say? These guys are a really cool and great team.

QFT. I stalk BevR on occasion when I’m on and they’re rolling. They’re not only a fun, cool, and cooperative bunch that gives a TON to Dh, they’re a force to be reckoned with on the battle field.

Johje Holan.4607:

Jim Hunter.6821:

@jojhe having a hard time reading? The op is talking about how many people ebay has. Although I have to admit we were having a tough time finding a good fight last night because certain servers kept hiding in their towers.

Not at all. I’m reading someone complaining because the matchup is unbalanced. And that its not fun. And that he’s going to go play PvE for the week which is just going to exacerbate the issue he’s describing. Which is the same thing that happens in Silver tiers and aparently now even in T1.

So why bring up a discussion about whether or not bronze tier servers have a healthy population? If the critical issue we’re experienced is experienced in all tiers, what’s the point of discussing populations in this thread?

Nova Stiker.8396:

Jerus.4350:

The downside to guardian is their poor mobility.

I haven’t played ele much but so far the downside to it seems to be my limitation of only 10 fingers.

I play xbox controller, having 15 skills or 25 doesn’t make a difference.

That said, an Ele with have a much easier time roaming, beating players 1v1 thanks to good sustainability and taking camps. Aim for Celestial Ascended gear as you’ll make up for the lower damage for a constant 25 stacks of might.

However, Guardians are much easier to play.

In a high level skill match up between an Elementalist and Guardian, Elementalist will always win.
In a low-median skill match up, Guardian will always win.

A bad Elementalist is the same as a bad thief, prepare to get stomped all the time if you lack the skill.

This is not true at all, I play both classes at a fairly high skill level and once Guardians learn a good build they stand a chance against high skill level eles. Eles are far harder to play, but that’s more of a “tough to learn” thing, it’s not hard at all once you’re used to it. The thing with Guardian is that it’s not as naturally suited to duels as Ele is, you have to be creative with your builds and really think things through. A high level Guardian can be as scary as a high level Ele in 1v1s, but it’s harder for a Guardian, it takes a lot more time investment and thought.

That said, Ele is your best bet for WvW roaming. Simply put, it has better 1vx capability (burst combined with sustain). It is generally better at 1v1 (more options helps you counter a larger variety of enemy builds). Finally, you can outrun a standard Warrior if you use FGS, this means you can chase anyone and escape with relative ease. FGS is also amazing for camp soloing, simply stack the enemies then use FGS3 and 4 (with no target selected, that’s key) into a wall, you’ll kill the full camp after using these 2 if you did it right and have some dps in your build (that’s less than 5 seconds).

bigmonto.4215:

This is only true for meditation Guardians, which I agree is hard to play, but it is one of the top dueling/roaming builds, they can completely destroy a warrior.

For AH and shout (Honor + Virtues) Guardians this is not true. I thought most of the group oriented Guardian are of these types. You get heals by dodging + buffing yourself and others and by doing nothing (virtue) . You give everyone else boon by pressing the shout. I don’t think this is harder to play than warrior.

First off, even AH shout guardians have more active play than warriors by a large margin. Even on boon duration builds, even with save yourselves, you have to time your protection/regeneration correctly in order to survive well. Protection is useless at times, and useful at others, and Guardians do not have perma protection. Without protection, Guardian is a warrior with 1/2 the hp. You’re right on the meditation guard bit, and meditation Guardian CAN destroy a warrior, but warrior is just as capable of destroying meditation guard.

But you can see how this might be a problem right? Different people play at different skill levels. To a low level player Warrior is consider OPed, because its attack are direct and its affect easily understood. But because its animation are obvious, and dodge-able by a seasoned player, warrior is ok at the higher level of play. In fact its effort required are the same if not more than that of other classes, since he will need to anticipate his opponent’s avoidance, and will have a difficult time avoid classes with less than obvious attacks. So the question is who should Anet be listening to?

Having very telegraphed attacks does not make something balanced… High level duelists will tell you the same. You can only dodge so often, and sometimes you have to dodge the non super hard hitting abilties (e.g. dodging a bulls charge) leaving you vulnerable to harder hitting ones. There are only so many dodges, so having telegraphed attacks isn’t always a crippling factor. Another thing to mention is a war can get a ton of damage in other wars. This includes combos (e.g. knockdown/stun then eviscerate, immob then hundred blades, axe auto attack, gs 3 etc…).

Warrior has more than just telegraphed attacks in order to supplement it’s attack. Have you ever considered, for example, using 1h sword just to immob (with f1, it has no tell as immob is applied instantly at the start of the attack) and then swapping (before the f1 finishes) to GS to hundred blades? You have to think in terms of combos. If I dodge shield 4, then bulls charge, how do I dodge an eviscerate? Only on certain classes will certain class mechanics save me, and then the warrior has another weaponset…

If Anet listening to most people commenting here then ele and eng should be the most Oped class and will dominated tPvP and no other class will really be able to compete. If Anet listen to the top-tier players then its basically saying a classes “it’s the best at something/can’t be beat” and should be nerfed. And you have to agree warrior is not that class.

Well, Warrior does have things about it that should be nerfed though. Specifically, mobility, it’s broken/stupid that the heavy/berserker class, the most naturally tanky class in the game, can run away faster than any light armor/medium armor classes. Another thing to look into is changing the dynamic of how warrior works, making it less passive and more active. Make healing sig something like “berserker’s signet”, every time you do actual damage (not condition damage) you gain 500 hp on a 1s cd. Potentially, this gives warrior more survivability but makes it so he has to engage and fight instead of kiting with GS. The only kiters then could be lb/rifle wars, and those 2 sets have 0 mobility and would have to rely on cc (making it a more interesting match).

Having fought against them recently I can say this is a great server. They were friendly and respectful as opponents, and they always put up a good fight. So if you’re not coming to Darkhaven (you crazy person), check this server out!

MiLkZz.4789:

What no? I got 3.7k hours on my warrior and around 400 on my guardian. With proper support builds, I think guardian is easier to play than a warrior and gives more reward (talking about loot). Only place where warrior is easier is for roaming, but that is because of other reasons (mobility issues).

Beats me experience of about 1,500 on Guardian and 500 on warrior, but I think I’m qualified to make judgments as well. Warrior tanking is very passive (generally speaking), so to tank you literally dodge watch you can and wait for healing sig to heal you up. Guard tanking is active, it’s achieved through carefully timed blinds, aegis, protection, regen, management of virtue passives, and blocks (focus 5 and heals). Since Guardian has very low hp, if you don’t manage these you’ll die very quick (especially without protection). Another thing to consider is, when running in groups, Warriors are almost always paired up with guards/eles and therefore will generally have protection like Guardians do.

If we look at GvGs, eles are almost the most important. Most healing comes from blasting waterfields. That is why both teams has thiefs/mesmer hunting down these eles as the melee train (guardians/warriors) will go down without eles. In zergs, most play guardian because of the easy tagging.

No Warriors and Guardians are the most important, which is why in 15v15s they generally constitute 50%+ of all people present…

In PvE, warrior and guardian have very equal damage and survivability and both are equally easy to play. Tons of blocks and blinds definitely makes up for the low health on the guardian.

Agreed, I never said Guardian was easier in every conceivable way. I mean in general, and especially in WvW (as I almost exclusively WvW).

For roaming, warriors actually are mediocre. Well in 1vs1s to be more precise.

You’ve never ran with top notch warriors clearly… A mostly zerk war with axe/shield+hammer or gs can be very deadly in a duel. GS is nice because 3 hits kitten a short cooldown + evade, has gap closers/cripples for comboing into a surprise eviscerate or cc (shield 4, bulls charge etc…). Even with all the tells a warrior has, there is only a limited number of dodges a player can do. The key is to making them waste their stam and then it’s game over. Again, good warriors are very strong in 1v1s. More importantly, they have build diversity there. Guardians have almost 0 build diversity and are one of the weakest classes in 1v1s (there are top notch guards that are good, but it’s not as easy as say mesmer or engineer).

Only warriors that might be to strong are condi warriors, but again this is because how condis work in WvW. Thiefs/mesmers/condi necros/engis and even good rangers/eles should all kill warriors. Only reason why warriors are often selected for roaming is because they are good nub stompers and are very mobile. Mobility is key in roaming.

Actually warrior is one of the top notch classes for anti-condi builds simply because of the ability to cleanse routinely and totally negate condis (via berserker’s stance). So a condi war in theory should beta an equally skill condi engi because engis generally lack condi removal/stun breakers (which are both needed against a lot of condi builds).

Healing signet is just something frustrating to fight against as it seems that he doesn’t lose health, but there is no difference to a guardian/ele/engi/ranger keep dropping to 3k health and healing himself back to full. Remember that if you are dropping the warriors health, he doesn’t have anything anymore. He pretty much has no heal, only thing he can do is run away aka reset the fight. But thiefs/mesmers do this too with stealth.

The condi warriors you mention often have heals on shouts traited actually, though I agree with you in principal. I’m not personally complaining about healing sig as I actually think it’s really easily counter by regularly applying poison (I bring sigil of doom on my ele and the sylvari wolf to apply as much as I can).

No, warriors aren’t OP. Again only thing we can argue about are condi warriors in WvW. But power warriors are easy to counter/shut down. When you know their rotations and skill animations, they wont be able to touch you anymore.

Name 1 class in the game that, when played by a true master, can’t beat another class? You can’t. When a person says something’s op, they’re not saying it’s the best at something/can’t be beat… They’re generally saying it yields more capability for less effort. It’s easier to be good on a warrior than it is on, say, a ranger. It’s easier to be great on a warrior than it is on, say, an Elementalist. This is the heart of the issue.

bigmonto.4215:

Oh man don’t be naive, its a edited video with the selected best footage. Every single profession has these.

Just to prove my point: here is a 5 min of looking through this forum. Every single one of them with 1vX and impressive looking

ele: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GieXgGnX1Bs&feature=youtu.be
eng: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEOx0xjkaDg
guard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSls3ORlJRM
mesmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N56od0juDdY
Ranger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o23VuRNc7nE
necro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzyVTFM7uSc
thief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOiWNhK6LS4

So now what nerf everyone?

I don’t recall him saying “everything I’m about to say is based on this one video”… I really don’t see how your reply deals with the substance of his post. Warriors are needed in zergs, they share that status with only one other class (guard). They’re also very strong in roaming, 1v1s, pve, and spvp… The only class that shares that general degree of viability is Guardian. The difference being is Guardian is harder to play, has less passive play, and has obvious weaknesses (low hp, low mobility, extreme vulnerability to boon stripping etc…).

ALL problems are equal and we should expect every problem be solved within similar time frames. That’s just being reasonable.

That was sarcasm.

thaooo.5320:

Arius.7031:

You’re only giving the example of T8. In T7, literally as I speak, we’re flipping each other’s keeps/towers in bls/eb and retaking them back and forth with 15+ groups.

Yes that’s called the Friday karma train.

If that happens on any other day of the week its kinda sad, its just PvE farming.

No, you misunderstand. We’re (sometimes, not always) fighting each other for these things as well. We’re not literally just swapping.

Dano.5298:

Arius.7031:

Dano.5298:

Jeknar is absolutely right. ET has been bailing out gw2 WvW by trying as hard as we do. If we die than WvW can crumble! You can’t just ignore a server and say, “sorry, but don’t mess with my server.” I’d hope that you can see that competition needs to have parody and as its set up, there are very few reasons to play on ET for most people.

There’s a lot we can do though:

1) Hope that people want parody and stop ktraining when servers lack coverage (I know, I know)

2) Lower tiered servers get transfers

3) change the ppt system so that competition matters.

4) make WvW megaserver’d for 4-5 hours during the “dead” time

One thing is for sure though: (Please believe me!!)

ET is hamstrung due to terrible number discrepancies. It’s not that noone tags up or we lack strategy… there’s just noone on!

I feel like gw2 has been very lucky to have who ET has… We’ve basically been your (every other server’s) punching bag for the past several months. Is it really hard to believe that the competitive lot of us are maybe getting tired of it?

Nobody is suggesting nothing be done to help ET. We’re saying that a knee-jerk reaction solution like server merging is not the best option available. It’s an extreme option that should only be used as a last resort. Myself and others have suggested plenty of ways to help ET (and other t8 servers in specific) gain some population with any luck (free tansfers for t8 for example, permanently). That said, if those don’t work then more extreme measures may be considered, and then and ONLY then will I be arguing nothing more should be done for ET. The sad fact is, in a fairly sandbox mode, some people/groups will be less fortunate/successful than others. I don’t want my server to got through drastic changes because SOME people on ONE server in gw2 are discontent with WvW atm.

I appreciated what you are saying and I’m very glad the majority of servers are content with their status. I hate the idea of a guild bailing on any server to help us which is why I’m very focused on trying to get new players into WvW.

The only thing I disagree with is you kinda missed my point I think. I mean no disrespect but servers aren’t disconnected in the way you describe. ET goes down any further than it has, the whole system will be drastically worse off. If the try hards of ET finally get fed up, then the next to “worse” server becomes the next ET and so on.

It will be no fun for Ebay, Kain, AR etc to play us which will expedite the WvW collapse by incentivizing people on those servers to move somewhere where there is actually a 1v1v1 component and fights.

If any server is down for too long, your server, no matter where you are will fall too.

I’m not advocating for a server merge, but peeps gotta realize WvW as a whole is a community.. its not just on a server wide basis. This is why to me, the WvW community as a whole needs to look down on guilds transferring away from low pop servers and commend those like Svrn who did the opposite.

Maybe thats too theoretical, which I grant you, but its frustrating to me that people just disregard ET and think everything will be fine for them if ET falls any further. Lastly I’ll add, the more balance we have the more players we will keep in WvW as it will actually be fun for new players and keep experienced players involved.

I agree almost 100% with what you’ve said pretty much. I’m just here in this thread advocating we discuss less drastic measures before merges (e.g. scaling server transfer costs, bottom server in t8 or all of t8 itself gets free transfers, maybe t7 gets something like 400 gem transfers, then increase by increments of 200 each tier you go up).

Fortus.6175:

I cant speak for the entire server, however I can speak for my guild when I say this;

we have 500 people, 100 on at any given time, and you would barely ever see anyone playing in WvW at any given time. We didnt get many transfers, Worm was one of them, but they are small but dedicated. Besides that all major guilds representing GOM have been there since the beginning. GoM, ASH, etc.

I know it can be hard to believe but ever since the TS we DID organize and brought everyone together, and it was because of this that we were able to pull ahead. Moral plays a big part. There are commanders who represent WvW widely, we are getting more and more people into the TS server. My guild, [GoM] is now seeing more actions and more representation, as well as people actually caring about WvW.

Like I said, we dont have queues in WvW except for prime times or reset, and never went above 20 in EB….. sometimes our borderland with no more than 7-8.

In fact, I would dare to say the enemy blobs were always bigger during prime time for other servers, I remeber getting rolled even in borderlands.

Organization DO matter, moral DO matter.

On the enemy rank there has always been good guilds with equally large number; [MvM], [CoSA], etc..

We have always had the numbers, just not a single banner to rise to. All severs have the same potential…seriously.

All server have the same potential? WUT? WvW is primarily population bro, don’t trick yourself into believing otherwise. If ET did everything right, just like GoM apparently did, they’d still lose to kaineng/ar. GoM did well in organization, nobody is denying that… But don’t deceive yourselves into thinking that’s why you won. SF has superior zerg capabilities and organization to you any day. You only beat them by coverage.

Fortus.6175:

Funny thing is;

We didnt win because of zerg numbers, but because we actually organized and played to win.

>[ASH] would constantly be running on enemy borderlands with 20-30 people, facing 50+ zergs and winning (I often joined them, I can verify the validity of this).

>We brought the ENTIRE server under one single and unified TS server, which allowed organization.

>As for coverage, it is BS. We are mostly NA, the reason why it appeared to have it is because our guild leader, who is an West player, would stay all night capping stuff, together with some guildies (Im East, and most other people were also NA).

---

We actually fought for that, we actually made sacrifices (NA doing night capping and keeping everything upgraded).

We were always a 21-23/24 server, but ever since the TS and the moral boosting we got from the big guilds (GoM, ASH, Worm, etc) we were able to pull ourselves together and win.

You want to experience the same? Try working towards unifying the community. Most servers have the capability of queueing WvW. Gate of Madness barely ever had queue, if anything on EB during peak times, and no more than 20 people.

You lost because we won, not because you sucked, I would dare to say FC and DR gave us a run for our money, and we loved it!

Uh… Not the story I heard. Didn’t you guys receive quite a few transfers back from higher tiers, including multiple guilds (iirc rise, one of your biggest guilds, came back pre s2 no?) Further, sorry to go bubble bursting but… gom could not beat Dh or SF without significant transfers. Even DR, a server that had beaten gom for 2nd place, got a huge massive boat load of transfers, was only a match for SF and later in the season able to beat Dh. You’re saying GoM, a server weaker than DR, suddenly went from t7 to top t6 server without any significant transfers? You actually think, for a moment, that you could lose to a server like DR, them get multiple massive guilds (dmd, tbt, zs etc…), and you somehow beat them because you get more organized? Don’t buy it, not a single bit.

I ain’t trying to dis GoM. I have friends on GoM who were from Dh (members of the “WHO” guild). But pretty much everyone in bronze knows you won MOSTLY due to numbers. You would, for entire days, lose your entire bl with no real attempt at defense. That’s not good organization. You mostly survived on just swarming enemy servers in EB. That’s not to say GoM doesn’t have good organization, just that I don’t think it’s what suddenly turned everything around for GoM.

Jeknar.6184:

1 month on Magswag, I farmed my way out… I was invited to join Darkhaven (one of the few servers where I still have active contacts), but even there I didn’t quite fit in… In fact, the pugs over there hate me because I don’t go around golem rushing stuff and because I like playing defense (the boring sieging/upgrading part) more than offense (zergbusting and long-drawn keep attacks).

Please, we both know you love offense. Jeknar #1 trebber bronze.

katz.8376:

Darius.1430:

If it bothers you so much Jeknar that you don’t have enough people to run with for your preferred style of play, in that you have to cry about it everyday, why don’t you move? Is it the cost?

it could be free, and i wouldn’t leave. quit telling people to do so.

Jeknar came down from a much higher tier server (blackgate, wasn’t it?) and he’s stuck it through for over a year. he could leave if he wanted to, i’m sure… but i for one am glad he hasn’t. if he sounds bitter, there’s a darn good reason, and telling him to, in effect, “get lost” doesn’t help matters

:o. But jeknar was on Dh just a couple months ago. There are still blood stains from when someone ordered fortify on a tower he was upgrading. He went Blackgate → Eredon Terrace → Maguuma → Darkhaven → Eredon Terrace according to the biography I have of him. It should be noted, while on Dh, he always missed ET and talked about how much he wanted to be back with you guys, so be nice to him!

I think the guy was just trying to say that, basically, if you’re miserable somewhere transferring is an option. Better to leave your home server than to quit the game, no?

Dano.5298:

Jeknar is absolutely right. ET has been bailing out gw2 WvW by trying as hard as we do. If we die than WvW can crumble! You can’t just ignore a server and say, “sorry, but don’t mess with my server.” I’d hope that you can see that competition needs to have parody and as its set up, there are very few reasons to play on ET for most people.

There’s a lot we can do though:

1) Hope that people want parody and stop ktraining when servers lack coverage (I know, I know)

2) Lower tiered servers get transfers

3) change the ppt system so that competition matters.

4) make WvW megaserver’d for 4-5 hours during the “dead” time

One thing is for sure though: (Please believe me!!)

ET is hamstrung due to terrible number discrepancies. It’s not that noone tags up or we lack strategy… there’s just noone on!

I feel like gw2 has been very lucky to have who ET has… We’ve basically been your (every other server’s) punching bag for the past several months. Is it really hard to believe that the competitive lot of us are maybe getting tired of it?

Nobody is suggesting nothing be done to help ET. We’re saying that a knee-jerk reaction solution like server merging is not the best option available. It’s an extreme option that should only be used as a last resort. Myself and others have suggested plenty of ways to help ET (and other t8 servers in specific) gain some population with any luck (free tansfers for t8 for example, permanently). That said, if those don’t work then more extreme measures may be considered, and then and ONLY then will I be arguing nothing more should be done for ET. The sad fact is, in a fairly sandbox mode, some people/groups will be less fortunate/successful than others. I don’t want my server to got through drastic changes because SOME people on ONE server in gw2 are discontent with WvW atm.

katz.8376:

Jim Hunter.6821:

katz.8376:

i said it once, when we were stuck in glicko hell a year ago, and i’ll GLADLY say it again: transferring away from a “problem server” WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM… it will only make it worse. all of us who choose to stay on a T8 server would appreciate if people would stop flippantly saying “just transfer”.

Merging the “problem servers” will not fix the problem, it will just ruin things for those of us that enjoy the smaller scale skirmishes.

There have been countless threads discussing the actual problems in WvW such as blobbing, downed state, low AoE limit, hard rezzing, PvD’ing, PPT system, no new maps after 2 years, etc.

Maybe if they fixed some of these problems instead of flat out ignoring WvW the population might actually start growing.

technically i haven’t said i was for a merger either. i said if we’re going to merge, merge us with the low pop EU servers to fill in coverage gaps, not another NA server.

as for “what it’s really like” down in T8… Jeknar, has it gone back to being as bad as it was a year ago, when i got that screencap of the entirety of ET’s WvW force from all 4 battlefields at primetime on a friday afternoon… all 17 of us? i can always throw that screenie back up here again. actually getting a zerg (A zerg. singular, as in, only on one BL) rolling of 20+ and still having some left over for scout/camp/enemy harassment was a cause for celebration.

No it’s not that bad lol. Even ET hits 30+ during prime. Don’t SVRN and EoH each run 15+ alone? Let alone pugs? Think those are the numbers jeknar gave me anyways.

thaooo.5320:

Eredon Terrace points breakdown for this almost finished match:

Borderlands – Percent

Eredon Terrace Borderlands – 62.1%
Eternal Battleground – 25.7%
Kaineng Borderlands – 8.5%
Anvil Rock Borderlands – 3.7%
_________________
Anvil Rock:

Borderlands – Percent

Anvil Rock Borderlands – 48.3%
Eternal Battleground – 41.7%
Kaineng Borderlands – 5.2%
Eredon Terrace Borderlands – 4.8%
_________________
Kaineng

Borderlands – Percent

Kaineng Borderlands – 48.9%
Eternal Battleground – 36.4%
Eredon Terrace Borderlands – 9.2%
Anvil Rock Borderlands – 5.5%
_______________
T8 % on enemy borderlands is 4-8% with 9% as an outlier.

T1 % on enemy borderlands is 10-15% with 17% as an outlier.

Even with pretty constant 24/7 coverage on all 3 T1 servers, they manage to hold enemy structures. T1 blobs can also melt gates with basic attacks, making it significantly harder to defend.

Tumbleweed8 has coverage gaps where it is possible to hold enemy structures for hours on end, meaning the enemy BL points should be much higher. Even if there is an attack/defence scenario, defending is much easier since the attacker can’t simply melt a gate by PvD.

Yeah, T8 is tumbleweed.

You’re only giving the example of T8. In T7, literally as I speak, we’re flipping each other’s keeps/towers in bls/eb and retaking them back and forth with 15+ groups.

Reverence.6915:

Being restricted with having fights only on EBG sounds ludicrously boring. Guilds go out of their way to avoid that map in T1. Pretty sure most guilds in T2 and T3 prefer the borderlands too.

That’s your opinion, and we’ve all already said that EB is focused on but we also maphop to BLs with our EB zergs. Bronze servers that have guild groups generally also have those groups hitting bls not eb.

thaooo.5320:

But have fun with your entire 10-20 online players on each server across 4 entire maps, during a 6 hour window each day, and the NPC’s. Occasionally meeting an enemy, occasionally having a non NPC confrontation, PvDing during and outside the 6 hour window, taking what ever scraps come your way that day.

Dude, you’re spewing garbage. Take Darkhaven for example, we have a SEA dedicated guild that fields 20+, and then a pug zerg, and then bl defense, and then roamers. We don’t have 10-20 people online 6 hours a day… We have 30+ people online 24/7 (except certain times when coms don’t tag up, or very rarely in the transition from NA to Oceanic). Darkhaven easily breaks 100 players in all WvW maps during prime (40-50+ eb zerg, 1-2 guild groups daily, multiple havoc guilds, bl defenders etc…)… You’re another person that’s just spewing garbage, get a clue about reality before you start trying to force your opinions on this matter onto us.

First picture is JUST OUR EB FORCE during late NA on a week day (check the time in the mini map). Second picture is JUST OUR EB FORCE during oceanic (our weakest time with the lowest population) on a week day. Check the mini maps and count the green dots, you’re looking at 40+ on first pic and 20+ on second pic. We’re not as dead as you seem to think. To clarify, this isn’t our total wvw pop, not even close, during these times. We also have guild groups/havoc groups/roamers/bl defenders.

Carbon.2975:

Arius.7031:

Carbon.2975:

Arius.7031:

yanniell.1236:

BP is some tiers above and is a desert wasteland outside prime NA time. If DH is the way you guys are saying, pretty sure you’ll be in our tier in no time.

Nope. Also, not saying, giving pictures. Don’t believe my word, believe the pictures. Darkhaven gets destroyed by Sorrow’s Furnace during primetime, enough that even us taking 400+ ppt (usually 500) against them every single night during oceanic/sea is not enough to make up for it.

You honestly need to find something better to do with your time. Trying to instigate arguments on a forum is pathetic. Its time to grow up.

Hey, if you had just asked for a server to transfer to I would have left this be and gave you some advice myself. Instead, you decided to insult my server repeatedly, and worse you lied about it potentially damaging my server in the future. I’m not trying to argue with you, just trying to stop you from scaring people away from transferring to our server.

Again, Darkhaven pretty much permanently has a zerg of 30+, check EB as they’re most likely there though they could be elsewhere as well. Look for the blue tag.

I’ll just assume you are one of those special individuals who gets really offended over a video game. Maybe if you stopped instigating arguments over the internet you could develop into a decent human being.

You may want to get your eyes checked. I’m hear to mitigate the damage you’re trying to do to my server, as spreading lies about us on the forums damages our chances of getting transfers. I’m only calling you out on your lies, nothing more.

Shonie.5297:

Using the argument that you can only be in one map at a time is rather futile.
Three and a half empty maps is the opposite of healthy for a large scale pvp gamemode.

But large scale itself does not imply that every map needs to be filled, near the cap, or even POPULATED in order for it to succeed at being large scale. Take Planetside 2 for example, 1 map is 24/7 populated heavily (indar), while the other 2 maps are moderate-low population and occasionally jump up and down in population. That doesn’t mean it fails at being large scale, cus large scale does not imply that every map be in use at all (or any) time.

You need to understand the simple concept that, if I’m getting my large scale action in EB, it doesn’t matter to me if the other 3 BLs are populated or not. It simply does not matter. If eb were the only map with any action ever in bronze (and it’s not), that’d still be large scale PvP with a sufficient number of fights if that’s what you’re looking for.

And this is as good as it is going to get.
There are more people leaving the game daily than there are new players to the game.
Which option of these 3 do you feel is best…
1) add more servers to dilute the population even more
2) keep it the same and over time almost every server below tier 3 will be nearly empty at all hours outside of NA prime for a few hours.
3) merge servers and keep the game active in at least a few tiers for as long as possible until the populations get to a point where the game mode is no longer sustainable in any tier.
Obviously nobody in their right mind would agree that adding 3 new servers would make sense. 27 NA servers? wtf Anet?!?!?!
So ask yourself why 24 is a good number? 24 is still wayyyyy too many at this point in the game’s life cycle.
I’m curious why you think 24 is a good number, when there’s no way anyone in their right mind would think adding servers would be healthy.

4) Find another option e.g.:

1. Transfer changes and incentives. All t8 servers are permanently free as long as they’re in t8. There is no justification for basing transfers off of active accounts on a given server now that PvE is mega server driven. Now we can directly say “this server is struggling in WvW, it doesn’t matter PvE-wise, so it should get more people”. T7 can cost, say, 200 gems, 400 for t6 and so on. This will give incentives to spread people around all servers as opposed to the current stacking of t1-3.

2. Subtle changes as mentioned by other people in this forum (I believe rimmy), such as the lowest population server being the default starting server for players with them having the option to switch if they want to. This will give the newer players who don’t have a reason to go to certain servers a reason to go to servers that need the help.

Etc…

I don’t like 24 personally, though I don’t know if other numbers are better (the only other number I like is 18 personally). That said, it’s not about the number. There are 24 servers already, even if 24 is too many servers, removing/fusing the servers that exist is not something all of us want. In fact, the vast majority of people I talk to in game oppose it, and as you can see the vast majority of low tier players in this thread oppose it. So even if 24 isn’t a good number, we already have 24 servers, you can’t just pretend you can wipe away say 6 servers without consequences. Not all of us want to be forced into some stupid merge that will completely change our wvw experience.

arKRazor.8654:

There are on some interesting points of view on display in this thread. As entertaining as I may find the tier rivalry to be, it would be a shame if a moderation pass put an end to this discussion.

Join our side officially half pint. You know you want to. Do it. No more being awesome nice person, help me destroy my enemies!

Shonie.5297:

Arius.7031:

Shonie.5297:

Rimmy.9217:

Buffy.9246:

I don’t know why you are so kitten about this. Don’t need for long paragraphs since I didn’t even bother to read half. But whatever, have fun fighting the rare zergs servers can pull down there and npcs. I’ll have more fun fighting actually people whenever I want 2.

Fair enough. Have fun in your giant blobs 1 1 1 1 1ing your way to empyreal fragments.

Fair enough, play the way you think is fun. That’s your right.
Nobody is transferring down to help you, a very small minority think map hopping in groups of 10, for 20 hours a day is a fun way to play the game. When the 5 people left playing on your server finally decide to quit out of sheer boredom or get tired of fighting against servers of 20 people, maybe you’ll finally come to the realization that there’s too many servers to support the game mode.

1 1 1 1 1 is so much more impressive in tier 8 when you’re the only person on a map solo’ing camps. Who are you impressing when there’s nobody around to see it? NPC’s don’t have feelings.

Dude, that’s not what bronze servers are like. Do you realize you’re spouting complete garbage lol? Even ET, the most dead server in NA, can field 40-50 people at times. Darkhaven, for example, almost 24/7 has a 20+ zerg, during sea we have 30+ and a 20+ guild zerg with great frequency… You just don’t know what bronze is like or are lying, idk which. I’ve posted screenshots earlier in this thread about what it’s actually like on my server (darkhaven, which is currently the top t7 server), and I can do so again if needed. But bottom line, this exaggeration needs to stop, only one server in the game is as dead as you describe and only for a portion of the day (oceanic/sea), ET.

You know there’s 4 maps that can hold 80-100 people per server right?
A 20-30 person group running around? Wow, you can almost half-fill 1 out of 4 maps 75% of the day.

You know people can only be in 1 map at a time, right? So if you want fights, you only need 1 map to get them. If 3 maps are empty and 1 map has quite a few, you can go to that one map if you want fights. Very simple.

P.S. Like I said, Darkhaven has 24/7 coverage. We only hit less than 20 people during the transition from na to oceanic. So your “75%” comment is just another falsehood you’re spouting.

Shonie.5297:

Rimmy.9217:

Buffy.9246:

I don’t know why you are so kitten about this. Don’t need for long paragraphs since I didn’t even bother to read half. But whatever, have fun fighting the rare zergs servers can pull down there and npcs. I’ll have more fun fighting actually people whenever I want 2.

Fair enough. Have fun in your giant blobs 1 1 1 1 1ing your way to empyreal fragments.

Fair enough, play the way you think is fun. That’s your right.
Nobody is transferring down to help you, a very small minority think map hopping in groups of 10, for 20 hours a day is a fun way to play the game. When the 5 people left playing on your server finally decide to quit out of sheer boredom or get tired of fighting against servers of 20 people, maybe you’ll finally come to the realization that there’s too many servers to support the game mode.

1 1 1 1 1 is so much more impressive in tier 8 when you’re the only person on a map solo’ing camps. Who are you impressing when there’s nobody around to see it? NPC’s don’t have feelings.

Dude, that’s not what bronze servers are like. Do you realize you’re spouting complete garbage lol? Even ET, the most dead server in NA, can field 40-50 people at times. Darkhaven, for example, almost 24/7 has a 20+ zerg, during sea we have 30+ and a 20+ guild zerg with great frequency… During na, you’re looking at 40-50+, and 2 15+ guild groups, and multiple roaming parties, and a bl defense zerg. Wanna know something funny? We’re a weak server in prime time, and we get those numbers. I know that’s nothing compared to you guys in higher tiers, but it’s enough to guarantee plenty of action if you’re looking for it.

I’ve posted screenshots earlier in this thread about what it’s actually like on my server (darkhaven, which is currently the top t7 server), and I can do so again if needed. But bottom line, this exaggeration needs to stop, only one server in the game is as dead as you describe and only for a portion of the day (oceanic/sea), ET.

We have the zergs if we need them, that’s an option for most bronze servers. The difference is we also have the option for a smaller scale play with very low chance of being interrupted by large zergs/guild groups, you don’t.

Buffy.9246:

I don’t know why you are so kitten about this. Don’t need for long paragraphs since I didn’t even bother to read half. But whatever, have fun fighting the rare zergs servers can pull down there and npcs. I’ll have more fun fighting actually people whenever I want 2.

“Forget evidence, forget understanding what he’s saying, must attack!”

Pretty much what I got from your post. Also, as previously discussed, every server in bronze has a zerg at least 1/2 of the day (during EU and NA), and 1/2 of bronze has a zerg 24/7 (dh/gom/kain/dr, sometimes fc). Admittedly, participation has been dropping with season 2 ending and wildstar launching but it should rise again.

Devilsmack.5736:

Whoa, whoa, whoa! You saying HoD never bought guilds? Really? What did you do> Rent them? If I recall correctly I saw HoD tick 500+ during SEA/OCX during Season 2 and winning every match due to it’s major coverage when during Season 1 you got bashed… You say that the bandwagon server you have become is just because many guilds just “willingly” decided to jump boats?
I find this VERY funny. Prior to Seasons we LOST many guilds (RET, DPS, etc. to name a few) and still we managed to get 2nd place. Even with our huge OCX/SEA population gap.
Honestly, I see A LOT of hypocrisy here.

They got free transfers (a TON of them from my server). They also won season 1 with no losses. Idk if they bought guilds or not though, just saying.

mango.9267:

Wow, this thread survived a day without getting closed.

Anyway, I’m pretty interested in how GoM will do against Silver servers, especially since I still have some friends there.

However, if what I’m told is true, I don’t see GoM doing well — unless they get out of EB. I get that in Bronze, EB is usually where the fights are, but in Silver and above, your attention should focused on the BL’s because that’s where most of the points come from.

GoM was always one of those servers that didn’t really operate very well outside of EB. They’re also really, really bad at defending. But, GoM does have the potential rectify both these problems, as they do have solid guilds and very, very large pug zergs. The issue is, they didn’t do as well as they should have against servers they were fighting. Sorrow’s Furnace and Darkhaven which both had distinct disadvantages against GoM (SF had no oceanic/sea coverage, Darkhaven had no organization and no NA coverage) were both able to give GoM a run for their money at various points in season 2. GoM’s numbers always pulled them through, but it won’t save them now unless they shape up.

Janno.7640:

Just genuinely curious, why are some guys so passionate about merging lower tier servers? Do you pay for the costs of running the servers for Anet?

If not, I don’t understand why you are so determined to make this happen, and insist that higher tiers are the best for everyone. Even after so many people from the lower tiers have been trying to show you otherwise.

Everyone has the option of moving up to a higher tier server if they wanted. But as long as there are people enjoying the lower tiers the way they want, I don’t see why you must impose your opinions and your preferred play style on them. Why not just leave them be? :/

We need the almighty higher tier servers watching over us bronze noobs. Ty for taking care of me gold tier guys. Ty.

Rimmy.9217:

thaooo.5320:

Tibstrike.2974:

Good lord you are stuck up.

That’s ironic. And hypocritical.

Uh oh rimmy went on a wall of text rampage.

Rimmy.9217:

Sorry, which style of play can’t I do? I don’t usually see all four maps being one single colour, so there are enemy players to engage with.

You’ve deluded yourself into thinking we’re bereft of some critically fun aspect of WvW. We’re not.

@bolded

- Actually consistently versing enemy players while doing them, not mainly NPC’s.

I seem to kill an awful lot of people with titles beginning with things like “Silver” for someone who mainly fights NPCs.

Rimmy you’re a noob. We’re just low tier scrubs. We never fight people. Ever. In lower tiers we solo bls all day erry day.

Buffy.9246:

Jim Hunter.6821:

I just logged off and the bottom 3 servers are fielding tons of people right now. I tried to get a good shot of ET’s zerg but I wasn’t able to catch them all. This is about a 3rd of their group.

On top of that they had 5-10 man roaming groups attacking our camps and our bl was being attacked by another group. Not exactly tumbleweeds.

That’s what, a good day for et?

That’s one of ET’s guilds (svrn) lol, with some pugs. They have at least one other large guild (eoh) and I hear a few others that I haven’t really seen.

Shonie.5297:

No offence, but 2-manning a tower/keep is hardly pvp or WvW.
It’s PvE. You’re not playing against anyone.
By saying you enjoy it, just means you no interest in playing large-scale pvp.
So… one guy on the ram, one guy kills guard respawns? Invigorating.
This isn’t the intent of WvW. Sure there will be down times on a lot of servers where stuff like this is possible. But gameplay like this at all hours outside of NA prime isn’t sustainable long term.
9 to 12 servers would probably be sufficient at this point in the game’s life cycle.
Outside week 1 or 2 of a tournament, there would be no issues with queues having 9 or 12 servers.

The reason 2 manning a tower is exciting is precisely because people usually do show up lol… As previously discussed, people congregate to their bl/eb in lower tiers, that means if you try to ninja in any map aside from your own bl (which would only lose a tower if a significant roaming group is there, also making it dangerous), you’re probably gonna have people showing up. If you don’t, you feel awesome and rewarded for stealing something away before they could respawn. Regardless or not if you classify it as pvp (even though it often lures enemies directly to you), it’s fun, and that’s what matters. It’s not exactly an uncommon thing either, virtually everyone in lower tiers does it here and there (not necessarily 2 man, just small manning, 2-5). It’s some a ton of people enjoy.

Further, saying I enjoy something aside from large scale pvp does not mean I don’t also enjoy large scale pvp… Do you enjoy roaming? I do, but that doesn’t mean I don’t also like zerging on occasion. And for the record, plenty of people prefer to stay away from large scale pvp in wvw already, that’s not what everyone likes about it, so pretending that if you don’t participate in large scale pvp you’re doing WvW wrong is silly. WvW’s selling point may be “lotsa big battles yay”, but that doesn’t mean everyone has to come and stay for that aspect of it.

Finally, there are battles that pop orange swords for at least 12 hours of the day on every server in the game. For servers like Darkhaven/devona’s rest/gates of madness we pop orange swords any time of the day in t7/6. We’re not as dead as you seem to think.

Jeknar.6184:

If everyone is on it’s home BL and EB, what is the only map where will be fighting? Having only 1 of the 4 maps with fights doesn’t sound right. And even if you say “Oh but when there is no action on home BL these people will move to another BL”, then you get a empty map, which doesn’t sound right too.

Also, you say “How can be super ninja stuff if there is action on all maps?”. Well, people ninja stuff while the main enemy zerg is occupied with the main allied zerg on the map (At least that’s what I saw while I was on BG and Maguuma). Taking stuff in deserted maps isn’t ninja, it’s just “uninterrupted PvDoor” because, unless you try a WP’ed keep, no one will ever know you are there (Since they are on other maps).

Why is an empty map so bad? Again, if everyone can get a fight by going to say EB, it doesn’t matter if there are also fights in all other BLs. If you’re busy fighting in EB, it doesn’t matter if there are also fights in every other bl, as you can only participate in one fight at a time.

Idk how dead it is for you in t8 Jeknar, but ninjaing something in t6/7 always gets someone’s attention. Ebay especially has very dedicated, very quick to respond bl defenders. SoR isn’t much different. Ninja ops almost always end with a very fun small scale fight for the tower. If they don’t, you feel like a boss and move onto the next target. Whether or not sometimes you’re just engaging in PvD is unimportant, it’s still fun.

Carbon.2975:

Arius.7031:

yanniell.1236:

BP is some tiers above and is a desert wasteland outside prime NA time. If DH is the way you guys are saying, pretty sure you’ll be in our tier in no time.

Nope. Also, not saying, giving pictures. Don’t believe my word, believe the pictures. Darkhaven gets destroyed by Sorrow’s Furnace during primetime, enough that even us taking 400+ ppt (usually 500) against them every single night during oceanic/sea is not enough to make up for it.

You honestly need to find something better to do with your time. Trying to instigate arguments on a forum is pathetic. Its time to grow up.

Hey, if you had just asked for a server to transfer to I would have left this be and gave you some advice myself. Instead, you decided to insult my server repeatedly, and worse you lied about it potentially damaging my server in the future. I’m not trying to argue with you, just trying to stop you from scaring people away from transferring to our server.

Again, Darkhaven pretty much permanently has a zerg of 30+, check EB as they’re most likely there though they could be elsewhere as well. Look for the blue tag.

yanniell.1236:

BP is some tiers above and is a desert wasteland outside prime NA time. If DH is the way you guys are saying, pretty sure you’ll be in our tier in no time.

Nope. Also, not saying, giving pictures. Don’t believe my word, believe the pictures. Darkhaven gets destroyed by Sorrow’s Furnace during primetime, enough that even us taking 400+ ppt (usually 500) against them every single night during oceanic/sea is not enough to make up for it.

Johje Holan.4607:

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Take a look at this, in particular, the Borderland Focus section.

Tier 1: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Blackgate
Tier 4: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Isle-of-Janthir
Tier 8: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Eredon-Terrace

Notice how blackgate’s differs from the lower tiers? See how little % of low tier ppt comes from enemy borderlands, while for BG it’s a substantial? It’s because they don’t have a healthy enough population to have presence on all 4 maps, so people congregate on their home BL and EB. Which means enemy servers are also not invading THEIR bl, which means less wvw action all around. In tier 1, people actually take and hold keeps in enemy BLs, upgrade them to waypoints, and have people map hop to save them.

The fact of the matter is, for your casual or new player, it IS important to have people on all the time in WvW, on multiple maps. Imagine buying GW2 and your first impression of it is the 1 person on the map flipping camps telling you “yeah we can’t play real wvw now because server x has a 15 man australian guild and we don’t.” You’d probably never log in again, you would definitely not pay anet the ridiculous transfer fee to a non dead realm, because you would have no frame of reference for wvw being any actual fun. People log in, see if there are people to play with, and if not, they log out. That’s just how it works. It wasn’t an issue at launch, because there were people on all the realms. It is an issue now.

I actually agreed with you up until your last paragraph. I think you draw an incorrect conclusion. Having players on ALL maps is relatively unimportant, any noob knows if one map is empty to check the others. As you say, people congregate in EB and home bl in lower tiers. This gives generally quite substantial populations in these 2 maps. I don’t think this is any problem whatsoever, and this explains why even lower population servers tend to have a zerg going in at least one map 90% of the day (ET and SF are the only strong, noticeable exceptions to this, who both 99% up and vanish at oceanic/sea generally).

This is a great post by Blix and one that I think gets to the crux of the issue for those that like larger scale fights.

The point is that when the servers in a match are concentrated in BG and their Home BL there are less fights. I think that’s indisputable.

If you take the site he listed (great site btw, thanks) and look at the IoJ/BP/Yaks matchup – they all focus on BG and their home BL. And so when a casual player – or even a regular WvW’er – logs on and sees maps that look like that there’s really only one choice to go for consistent fights – and that’s EB.

And when EB gets queued some either just PvE until EB pops or even log off. I know I’ve done that.

But in the T1 match there’s action on every map. Not just EB. So a player logging in to check out the situation has more choices, more places to find fights.

But here’s the thing, a player only has the opportunity to be in one fight at a time. So, say I’m logging into get some action. Say there are two scenarios, in one scenario, there’s guaranteed action in EB. In another scenario, there’s guaranteed action in every borderland. If I am looking for large scale action, in both scenarios I have the option to get it if I want it. If I’m getting action in the map I’m in, it does not matter if there is action in other maps. If I can get my fights in EB, I can go to EB to get fights. It doesn’t matter if there are fights elsewhere, because if I’m fighting in one place, knowing there are fights in other places doesn’t enhance my experience. If I’m there for the fights, I have that option on either scenario.

Further, even if you argue that “well, you’re right, you may be able to get action regardless, but having more options is still better!” I can quickly reply that your option also has an inherent downside. That is, with every single BL having significant forces (ie zergs), there is no room for super small scale ninjaing. If you haven’t experienced the thrill of very, very small scale ninja ops (ie 2 manning a keep/tower) then you’re missing a really fun aspect of WvW. It may not be for you, but a lot of us actually like that.

At best this is a minor point in favor of your side, and it does have its faults as well. I don’t think, however, this is quite as critical an issue as people are making it out to be. I know that any time I log in, I can go to EB (or wherever the main zerg happens to be, because contrary to popular beliefs about t6-8 on the forums, we don’t always stay in EB lol) and I will get large scale fights (40+ generally speaking). IDC if there’s a fight going on in an enemy BL as well, because I’m getting my fights in EB.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Arius.7031:

Reverence.6915:

Arius.7031:

Reverence claims only 50 BG players are on during oceanic. How does he even know that? Do all guilds run tagged? Do all havoc squads report their numbers? I have a feeling be means to say 50+ players in eb and home bl or something… but bg/jq/tc are constantly capping each other’s bls in oceanic/sea. As I look at gw2score right now, I see TC recently retook 2 keeps in their bl from BG, JQ owns 2 keeps in BG BL, and BG owns 1 keep in JQ BL. And BG only has 50 people on in total right now? Don’t buy it. Don’t buy it at all.

This is the other big difference – organisation.
At the time of my last post, we had a main zerg of around 25-30 and two 5 man groups. Give an upper estimation of those not in teamspeak, and you get 50. Tagged or untagged doensn’t matter. We know they’re there.

An undefended keep can be taken by 3 people (least amount of people I’ve successfully done it with). How many things get flipped really isn’t an indication of numbers on a borderland.

Lol you need to come to low tier. 2 manning a keep is easy if both players are competent.

Anyways, okay, fine. That’s a side topic regardless. You’re right, there is a big difference, organization. That’s why Darkhaven couldn’t survive against you in sea/oceanic, or even CD. We’re pugs, bad ones at that, we’d get rolled and quit almost immediately. However, if you REALLY only have 50 people on, we’re not far behind in player count (as I speak, 20 man main zerg, 1 havoc group of 6, multiple roamers, and bl defenders which I do not know the exact count of, but at least 5).

I’ve actually soloed several keeps. I just usually wait until our zerg is attacking hills or bay to keep everyone distracted. Although it is fun to take them without the distraction as long as they don’t have waypoints built in hills or bay, I usually get to kill 1 or 2 people at a time that come running to defend.

If I wanted to blob I would transfer, I like roaming solo or in a small group and killing other roamers. I like taking an enemy keep or camp, sieging it up and farming people.

I couldn’t care less about PPT or crappy rewards. I’m on AR and we come for the fight.

You’re better than me. I have the sustain on my guard, but not really the dps to solo the keep in anything less than half an hour rofl. My ele is really risky, I can solo if it if everything goes right but it never does with bad timings on weakness/stuns from the adds etc… :/

henchmen.1856:

Arius.7031:

Deli.1302:

Arius.7031:

Carbon.2975:

Arius.7031:

Nice post history. You’re LITERALLY the only one on your server at any time of the day? Funny, I took a few screenshots just recently. First pic was from a few minutes ago (10am server time, not our peak population, just in EB not the other maps). Second picture (if it shows up, forum is glitchy) is from oceanic last night (the least populated time zone for most gw2 players, and look at the minimap, we still had 20+). Sure are a lot of you if you’re the only one!

Check his post history folks, pretty clearly a troll and he’s clearly lying (take a look at the pics yourself lol). A few quotes from his post history (which extends to may the 29th):

I haven’t played GW2 in a while and only returned today. I noticed that everyone on my server has stopped playing WvW. I’m honestly the only one in there at any hour of the day.
Are there any servers that still care about WvW? Thanks.

Thanks for the quick answers. I really want to get back into this game but its so depressing how I am the only one on WvW (not even exaggerating, I was the only one!).

You sure put a lot of work into humiliating yourself. Why would I troll about something like this?

Those screenshots were taken for another thread, I didn’t have to put any work into clicking the “choose file” button (which already leads to my gw2 ss folder). Reading your post history also wasn’t a lot of work. Indeed, demonstrating that you’re just a troll took almost no work at all, which means you’re pretty bad at it to be completely honest.

I’m willing to bet those screenshots showed your only force across all 4 maps. So if he prefers playing in the borderlands, it was most likely deserted like it is on most T7-8 servers. I see nothing wrong with his post history. Clearly this is an issue that has finally convinced him to make a thread on the forums. That doesn’t mean he’s trolling.

That is completely false. The first screenshot taken (iirc), the one taken at 9 something pm, we had 2 guild groups going in other BLs as well as a home bl defense zerg (not to mention multiple roaming groups/roamers).

The 2nd screenshot was oceanic where we have no guilds BUT do always have people in Dh BL defending as well as 2 havoc guilds that were going at the time (dm/rdh). During oceanic I’d say that’s not too bad. Regardless, even if it were true, that does categorically demonstrate that we aren’t empty, and that we have decent round the clock coverage. I don’t generally like to be so harsh and straight forward, but Dh lost a TON of people pre season 2 (seriously, a ton), and we do not need people scaring away potential transfers by lying on the forums.

I’m on DH and it was a dead zone that day other than that Bevr group. All the bl’s were empty of friendly and enemy forces. But its true, DH does have some SEA pugs (nothing compared to higher tiers though).

Strange then how we were constantly falling to 200 ppt then jumping back up to 300, all day: http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/46/ Was it just a roaming group here and there that was flipping sor’s keep over and over? Lol. Nope. I was there, and it was not empty.

Reverence.6915:

Arius.7031:

Reverence claims only 50 BG players are on during oceanic. How does he even know that? Do all guilds run tagged? Do all havoc squads report their numbers? I have a feeling be means to say 50+ players in eb and home bl or something… but bg/jq/tc are constantly capping each other’s bls in oceanic/sea. As I look at gw2score right now, I see TC recently retook 2 keeps in their bl from BG, JQ owns 2 keeps in BG BL, and BG owns 1 keep in JQ BL. And BG only has 50 people on in total right now? Don’t buy it. Don’t buy it at all.

This is the other big difference – organisation.
At the time of my last post, we had a main zerg of around 25-30 and two 5 man groups. Give an upper estimation of those not in teamspeak, and you get 50. Tagged or untagged doensn’t matter. We know they’re there.

An undefended keep can be taken by 3 people (least amount of people I’ve successfully done it with). How many things get flipped really isn’t an indication of numbers on a borderland.

Lol you need to come to low tier. 2 manning a keep is easy if both players are competent.

Anyways, okay, fine. That’s a side topic regardless. You’re right, there is a big difference, organization. That’s why Darkhaven couldn’t survive against you in sea/oceanic, or even CD. We’re pugs, bad ones at that, we’d get rolled and quit almost immediately. However, if you REALLY only have 50 people on, we’re not far behind in player count (as I speak, 20 man main zerg, 1 havoc group of 6, multiple roamers, and bl defenders which I do not know the exact count of, but at least 5).

Shonie.5297:

Iavra.8510:

Well, someone asked, so…i prefer low tier servers, because:
- there are less queues,
- less blobs,
- less OS trolls,
- more capable duellers,
- individuals tend to be more skilled,
- the whole community is a lot more personal and
- a single person can achieve much more than in higher tiers.

Also, even if i’m in a minority, i like being outmanned. When i see that icon on my lower right bar, i know there are enemies out there and i can have my fun trolling them. I will die at one point, so what? I’m not here to make points or loot, but to have fun, after all and i have my fun fighting against superior numbers seeing how long i can last.

T1 there are no queues outside of reset night for a few hours.
There are not blobs on every map. Some maps, yes. All maps, no.
It gives you the option to play how you want.
Capable duellers and more skilled players in lower tiers? Hardly.
There are more types of each player in higher tiers.
There are more highly skilled players. There are more average players. And there are more bad players.
Saying a single player is more important in lower tiers goes without saying. A single player in lower tiers represents a higher percentage of the total population.
All that said, WvW is intended to be massive server vs server vs server warfare with a lot of people 24 hours a day. Running around in pockets of 3-5 people flipping camps and undefended towers for 20 hours a day in lower tiers isn’t even playing the game. And it’s not like the situation is going to improve without server merges. As much as you say each person is more important in lower tiers, it’s also way more noticeable when a few people leave due to attrition. How long will it be before attrition makes the bottom few tiers even more unplayable than now? I was in tier 3 about 4 months ago and found the game unplayable outside of NA prime, can’t imagine the horror of playing in the bottom few tiers.

Dude, do you really think lower tier servers is a bunch of people flipping camps for 20 hours a day? Wow. You have no idea what you’re talking about, at all. Most people who play in lower tiers, by the way, enjoy them just fine. In fact, MOST (not all) of the supporters for merges, in this thread, are people from higher tiers, because y’all don’t know what you’re talking about and think you should be determining what’s best for us. Check earlier in the thread. I posted pictures, during a week day, of darkhaven having 25+ during oceanic (which we have far less on for than we do during sea/eu). That’s not 3-5 people flipping camps. During NA we easily have 40-50+ zerg + guild groups every day, consistently, without fail.

Deli.1302:

Arius.7031:

Carbon.2975:

Arius.7031:

Nice post history. You’re LITERALLY the only one on your server at any time of the day? Funny, I took a few screenshots just recently. First pic was from a few minutes ago (10am server time, not our peak population, just in EB not the other maps). Second picture (if it shows up, forum is glitchy) is from oceanic last night (the least populated time zone for most gw2 players, and look at the minimap, we still had 20+). Sure are a lot of you if you’re the only one!

Check his post history folks, pretty clearly a troll and he’s clearly lying (take a look at the pics yourself lol). A few quotes from his post history (which extends to may the 29th):

I haven’t played GW2 in a while and only returned today. I noticed that everyone on my server has stopped playing WvW. I’m honestly the only one in there at any hour of the day.
Are there any servers that still care about WvW? Thanks.

Thanks for the quick answers. I really want to get back into this game but its so depressing how I am the only one on WvW (not even exaggerating, I was the only one!).

You sure put a lot of work into humiliating yourself. Why would I troll about something like this?

Those screenshots were taken for another thread, I didn’t have to put any work into clicking the “choose file” button (which already leads to my gw2 ss folder). Reading your post history also wasn’t a lot of work. Indeed, demonstrating that you’re just a troll took almost no work at all, which means you’re pretty bad at it to be completely honest.

I’m willing to bet those screenshots showed your only force across all 4 maps. So if he prefers playing in the borderlands, it was most likely deserted like it is on most T7-8 servers. I see nothing wrong with his post history. Clearly this is an issue that has finally convinced him to make a thread on the forums. That doesn’t mean he’s trolling.

That is completely false. The first screenshot taken (iirc), the one taken at 9 something pm, we had 2 guild groups going in other BLs as well as a home bl defense zerg (not to mention multiple roaming groups/roamers).

The 2nd screenshot was oceanic where we have no guilds BUT do always have people in Dh BL defending as well as 2 havoc guilds that were going at the time (dm/rdh). During oceanic I’d say that’s not too bad. Regardless, even if it were true, that does categorically demonstrate that we aren’t empty, and that we have decent round the clock coverage. I don’t generally like to be so harsh and straight forward, but Dh lost a TON of people pre season 2 (seriously, a ton), and we do not need people scaring away potential transfers by lying on the forums.

Blix.8021:

Take a look at this, in particular, the Borderland Focus section.

Tier 1: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Blackgate
Tier 4: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Isle-of-Janthir
Tier 8: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Eredon-Terrace

Notice how blackgate’s differs from the lower tiers? See how little % of low tier ppt comes from enemy borderlands, while for BG it’s a substantial? It’s because they don’t have a healthy enough population to have presence on all 4 maps, so people congregate on their home BL and EB. Which means enemy servers are also not invading THEIR bl, which means less wvw action all around. In tier 1, people actually take and hold keeps in enemy BLs, upgrade them to waypoints, and have people map hop to save them.

The fact of the matter is, for your casual or new player, it IS important to have people on all the time in WvW, on multiple maps. Imagine buying GW2 and your first impression of it is the 1 person on the map flipping camps telling you “yeah we can’t play real wvw now because server x has a 15 man australian guild and we don’t.” You’d probably never log in again, you would definitely not pay anet the ridiculous transfer fee to a non dead realm, because you would have no frame of reference for wvw being any actual fun. People log in, see if there are people to play with, and if not, they log out. That’s just how it works. It wasn’t an issue at launch, because there were people on all the realms. It is an issue now.

I actually agreed with you up until your last paragraph. I think you draw an incorrect conclusion. Having players on ALL maps is relatively unimportant, any noob knows if one map is empty to check the others. As you say, people congregate in EB and home bl in lower tiers. This gives generally quite substantial populations in these 2 maps. I don’t think this is any problem whatsoever, and this explains why even lower population servers tend to have a zerg going in at least one map 90% of the day (ET and SF are the only strong, noticeable exceptions to this, who both 99% up and vanish at oceanic/sea generally).

Reverence claims only 50 BG players are on during oceanic. How does he even know that? Do all guilds run tagged? Do all havoc squads report their numbers? I have a feeling be means to say 50+ players in eb and home bl or something… but bg/jq/tc are constantly capping each other’s bls in oceanic/sea. As I look at gw2score right now, I see TC recently retook 2 keeps in their bl from BG, JQ owns 2 keeps in BG BL, and BG owns 1 keep in JQ BL. And BG only has 50 people on in total right now? Don’t buy it. Don’t buy it at all.

Reverence.6915:

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Deli.1302:

renmei.3102:

Welcome to NA Tier 1 where each map is queued and during NA prime time map blobs are everywhe-… oh wait :o

Post season, low turnout from people taking a break after the amount of overtime put in last week.

Wasn’t any different during seasons. We had unqueued maps the very first week a few hours after the first reset. Given that any of the tier 1 servers still absolutely rolls over tier 2, despite the decline in population, I can’t imagine how barren and boring it is in the lowest tiers.

Pic from about 9:40pm server time. This doesn’t include our guild groups, our BL defense group, or our various havoc squads.

Just… stop. If lower tier servers consistently had that kind of turn out, they’d be in tier 3-4, not 6-8

That’s not true at all, you don’t know what you’re talking about. You need to take a break from “beastgate” (lol) and come down to bronze for a few matches. Sorrow’s Furnace, Gates of Madness, Devona’s Rest, and Fergusson’s crossing all HEAVILY outnumber Darkhaven during prime, and the screenshot I gave you was a relatively tame zerg for Darkhaven during primetime (ask the guy from Ehmry Bay posting in this thread lol, he’ll tell you our zergs are large and there are plenty of them).

I’ll keep on posting screenshots to actually back up my claims, it’d be nice if you’d do the same but you’re just relying on assertions with no evidence. You can keep covering your eyes, avoiding my pictures that I keep posting to prove my point, or you can accept that your conceptions may be a bit incorrect.

Edit: Also, so you know, our numbers have been dropping drastically over the past few days (season 2’s ending probably), so idk if these numbers are consistent with what we will be seeing. But, for the past few matchups (I ignored the start of season 2, which saw Darkhaven, Gates of Madness, and Sorrow’s furance all at 3-4 queues during prime), the numbers I’ve given have been the norm.

Carbon.2975:

Arius.7031:

Nice post history. You’re LITERALLY the only one on your server at any time of the day? Funny, I took a few screenshots just recently. First pic was from a few minutes ago (10am server time, not our peak population, just in EB not the other maps). Second picture (if it shows up, forum is glitchy) is from oceanic last night (the least populated time zone for most gw2 players, and look at the minimap, we still had 20+). Sure are a lot of you if you’re the only one!

Check his post history folks, pretty clearly a troll and he’s clearly lying (take a look at the pics yourself lol). A few quotes from his post history (which extends to may the 29th):

I haven’t played GW2 in a while and only returned today. I noticed that everyone on my server has stopped playing WvW. I’m honestly the only one in there at any hour of the day.
Are there any servers that still care about WvW? Thanks.

Thanks for the quick answers. I really want to get back into this game but its so depressing how I am the only one on WvW (not even exaggerating, I was the only one!).

You sure put a lot of work into humiliating yourself. Why would I troll about something like this?

Those screenshots were taken for another thread, I didn’t have to put any work into clicking the “choose file” button (which already leads to my gw2 ss folder). Reading your post history also wasn’t a lot of work. Indeed, demonstrating that you’re just a troll took almost no work at all, which means you’re pretty bad at it to be completely honest.

Zetsumei.4975:

Arius.7031:

Nice post history. You’re LITERALLY the only one on your server at any time of the day? Funny, I took a few screenshots just recently. First pic was from a few minutes ago (10am server time, not our peak population, just in EB not the other maps). Second picture (if it shows up, forum is glitchy) is from oceanic last night (the least populated time zone for most gw2 players, and look at the minimap, we still had 20+). Sure are a lot of you if you’re the only one!

Check his post history folks, pretty clearly a troll and he’s clearly lying (take a look at the pics yourself lol). A few quotes from his post history (which extends to may the 29th):

I haven’t played GW2 in a while and only returned today. I noticed that everyone on my server has stopped playing WvW. I’m honestly the only one in there at any hour of the day.
Are there any servers that still care about WvW? Thanks.

Thanks for the quick answers. I really want to get back into this game but its so depressing how I am the only one on WvW (not even exaggerating, I was the only one!).

Just saying.. pretty sure that chat log says 10 PM ^^

Yeah, meant to type 10pm not am (my bad).

Nice post history. You’re LITERALLY the only one on your server at any time of the day? Funny, I took a few screenshots just recently. First pic was from a few minutes ago (10am server time, not our peak population, just in EB not the other maps). Second picture (if it shows up, forum is glitchy) is from oceanic last night (the least populated time zone for most gw2 players, and look at the minimap, we still had 20+). Sure are a lot of you if you’re the only one!

Check his post history folks, pretty clearly a troll and he’s clearly lying (take a look at the pics yourself lol). A few quotes from his post history (which extends to may the 29th):

I haven’t played GW2 in a while and only returned today. I noticed that everyone on my server has stopped playing WvW. I’m honestly the only one in there at any hour of the day.
Are there any servers that still care about WvW? Thanks.

Thanks for the quick answers. I really want to get back into this game but its so depressing how I am the only one on WvW (not even exaggerating, I was the only one!).

Blix.8021:

Deli.1302:

renmei.3102:

Welcome to NA Tier 1 where each map is queued and during NA prime time map blobs are everywhe-… oh wait :o

Post season, low turnout from people taking a break after the amount of overtime put in last week.

Wasn’t any different during seasons. We had unqueued maps the very first week a few hours after the first reset. Given that any of the tier 1 servers still absolutely rolls over tier 2, despite the decline in population, I can’t imagine how barren and boring it is in the lowest tiers.

Pic from about 9:40pm server time. This doesn’t include our guild groups, our BL defense group, or our various havoc squads.

Rimmy.9217:

bob.8632:

I have played on a lot of servers (7 or so on EU and NA) with most of my time spent in NA-“Bronze” and honestly you really do not realize how bare T7-8 (NA) is until you start moving around. Like I said, if you want a sparsely populated server, then no worries.

But really, the higher tiers are not queued for the most part. The old days of higher tiers full of zergs and queues, and lower tiers are full of roamers and skill groups are coming to an end.

This game does not really have the population to support 24 servers anymore, and it probably hasn’t for around 1 year or so.

No merges. If higher tier servers want more population, they can pay ANet to move en masse to a lower populated server.

And people who are currently on lower populated servers who don’t like the kind of play they’re getting can pay ANet to transfer to a higher populated server.

Do not decide on my behalf what’s “better” for me based on your own preference. The lower tier servers are not a resource to be harvested by the higher population servers to maintain their boring big group zergs.

QFT. Lol, love fighting ebay, and apparently love their posters too (- the Dork shaven bit earlier, not happy >:O).

Some people want merges, some people don’t. Bottom line though. Darkhaven isn’t some dead unpopulated server of people waiting for a merge to save us… Don’t force us into something we don’t want.

bob.8632:

No disrespect, just honesty….But having 1-2 maps populated during 4hrs out of a 24hr day does not mean you are thriving…..

It is absolutely fine if you enjoy that, but do not try to justify that having some prime-time presence and tumbleweeds on everything else, means that you are well populated and stable.

But this isn’t even the reality for most servers lol… Devona’s Rest, GoM, and Darkhaven consistently have decent night crews so long as commanders are available (Dh/DR will sometimes disappear due to there being no com, granted). Servers like Kaineng, Anvil Rock, and even Ehmry Bay also have substantial (for our tier) night crews, so that even at night time there will be battles and orange swords. As a Darkhaven person, when we were fighting Devona’s Rest last (week 9 of S2), orange swords were popping everywhere during SEA especially. Sometimes in 2 BLs. We’d have a large pug zerg + SotD and DR would have a pug zerg + ZS (esp during late SEA, as that’s usually when zs started seriously going)… that’s a lot of people.

So your statement may, MAY hold some worth in regards to servers with 0 off hour coverage (SoR/ET/SF), but that’s not the majority of bronze servers even.