Guild Wars 2

Sizer.3987:

sicsempertyrannis.3510:

The real joke is that nobody is calling for an Engineer nerf, even though we’re going to see 3-4 of them in a 10 man raid. They have the highest PvE DPS (yes, highest, Sinister Engineer beats out Elementalist), yet we don’t have developers dropping microphones telling us that they’re overtuned and need to be adjusted. Why? Because people don’t cry on the forums about them non-stop.

What we have here is proof that a) ANet takes forum balance crying too seriously, and b) the nerfs to the classes frequently whined about (Thief, Elementalist) over the years are now going to nudge them out of the meta for new content.

Ele nerfs were entirely due to pvp and 4 ele groups winning tournaments. If you want to cry about poor balancing cry about the fact that balance STILL isnt split between the different game modes, even though theyre like playing entirely different mmos.

Besides 4 engies isnt that bad for balance, people ran 2 warriors in every dungeon run forever, then 2 eles in every run. Everyone knows balance will only be bad if people start running 5 per raid. Then you can grab your pitchforks and start booking flights to anets HQ.

The big problem with this statement is that pve ele and pvp ele share almost nothing in common. Between the two builds they both generally ran water and fire, but within those two lines they literally only shared one major trait. From there they are even more different, different weapons, completely different utilities, different heal skill, different stat choices.

Ayrilana.1396:

nekretaal.6485:

What’s wrong with winning by attrition?

Serious question.

God I hate timers.

Anet should design more bosses like the molten duo who can be holy hell if your DPS is too low if it intends to enforce DPS checks.

Because it requires little skill.

It would be fine if bosses could also play the attrition game, by healing them selves like with Simin in arah p4. Then you can’t just slowly easy mode it in tank gear.

Swiftwynd.1685:

I tanked the boss without issue as a earth campi g Tempest. Stationary most of the time. Pumping our 3 to 4k bleed ticks sustained. Tempest is single handedly the best raw damage soaker to keep the boss as still as possible for melee dpsers and can kite the mob to still be in range of the ranged squad members who position for the lighting aoe. 40% Protection with 100% uptime and 10% Frost Aura and cannot be crit while in earth. While maintaining solid condi dps. Easily will become the meta tank

Does stone heart even matter though? Most mobs in this game have extremely low crit rates, might be different for raids, but not sure.

The thing with eles was that everyone seemed to think they would always be top tier meta because there were normally 2 of them in record runs. However the thing always was that they simply had the best dps. As soon as they lost that top dps they would be replaced with whatever beat them. This is right now sinister engi which it certainly doesn’t help the ele that engi is much more durable and can make a few mistakes without imploding. They will never be as bad as necro (well, it might be ok in raids) but they definitly did not have the most secure spot in the meta despite being the most represented.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

nearlight.3064:

Yeah I didn’t notice many berserker’s at all this beta, but when I did, I was gunflamed into downstate almost instantly.

indeed. i had lots of fun one shotting people in hotjoin during the last weekend.

And they were all tiny asura T.T

abc.5790:

Pimsley.3681:

Hey guys – I’m familiar with this set-up and run it in different variations. I still have a main engie build but this will serve a great support role in the future.

What “powers” this build is the synergy between the rapid regen trait, backpack regen, HGH, Hidden Flask, Heavy armor exploit…. You can even be more aggressive with the healing by traiting firearms with soothing detonation and bunker down.

Right now it only seems powerful because the counter build hasn’t been found yet. Good news is that I believe there is a very powerful counter to this build.

It’s a bit different from d/d ele. This has more sustain whereas the d/d does more damage. The counter to this build will be similar to what counters d/d ele pre June patch and shoutbows of the same era.

I’ve attached a screenie with support and healing stats .

I just hope I have enough time this evening to test out the counter

Scrapper is not in the same league as d/d ele.

When I solo queued scrapper, my biggest contribution was support for the team.

Support builds are usually not OP coz not everyone can play it ESPECIALLY to support solo queue scrubs.

Im sure there is a counter but no point in worrying about it now. Countering a support build is mean. Why would you want to counter a kind, helpful person who chose a build to support solo queue scrubs?

The obvious answer to that would be because it turns those solo queue scrubs into invincible killing machines.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

That’s the one problem with the way the Reaper is designed. Since it has no disengage, it has to be the most powerful in a straight up brawl. Otherwise, the Reaper will never be played. The class that beats the reaper will be played, since the reaper will automatically lose once seeing that class.

This is true except for one thing. Since reaper is pretty tanky, if the counter class can’t burst it down quickly, and just wins in a drawn out sustained battler, then reaper can still be viable, It will have time to get support from allies if stuck in an unfavorable match up, allowing it to not be farmed constantly, and still useful in the areas it excels.

Been seeing a lot of p/p thieves around lately, and tried it out a bit my self. Doubt it will go meta because it is such a bad weapon set defensively, and offensively is purely single target. But against that one target it hits like a truck on steroids.

Too early after a large patch to really make a list like this, and pointless to judge the elite specs with their performance levels in such a highly volatile prerelease state.

The only other skills I can think of that acts like this are purging flames which already burns on creation, and flame axe ring of fire which the devs have forgotten exists. Bringing purging flames, down to ring of fire levels of burning would be a huge nerf and in need of compensation. And flame axe also wouldn’t matter since, no one uses it for anything, and the devs are fine with that.

rotten.9753:

Stilgar.6437:

I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.

When was the last time any ele build was viable, not underpowered or not overpowered?

When was the last time there was a build for any class that was considered viable but not op? Pretty much every build that becomes meta gets called face roll op unless it is just used purely for it’s utility (theif stealth/mobility, Mesmer portal, resbot guardian).

The only problem with icebow 4 was that the damage was pretty excessive against large hit boxes. This literally constitutes less than .1% of all potential targets in the game. Now it is still probably pretty good against the .1% but useless against the 99.9%.

So rather than actually fixing the problem, just gut it so we can pretend it doesn’t exist anymore, outside of a few very specific circumstances.

As for line casting, same thing. Why nerf a skill that is too strong when used in an exploitative way (that is virtually never used any ways) rather than fixing the exploit? If the exploit is too tricky to fix, then the nerf should have come with a compensation buff in another area so that the skill would still worth using. How about making the 5 skill no longer root the user? Or just make the 1-3 skills worth the utility slot? Or how about adding healing to ice storm, so it is supportive, while not affecting its potential against large hit boxes or with line casting. None of those would be game breaking in pve, and they could even help frostbow actually become viable in pvp for something other than gimmick one-shot builds (which it can’t even do now since ice storm will only do tickle damage). Now there is simply no reason to use it aside from the limited situations where it actually was op to begin with.

Archaon.9524:

ele out of meta with abj playing double ele?

Noone is gonna let that happen rofl

unless those eles eventually reroll something even more ez mode to play ofc

#esports you know…

They did pre june 23rd and abjured re-rolled to the super skillful builds of shoutbow and mediguard.

I was hoping for the burn stacks of cleansing fire, to be brought down to 1 and then just a small change on the might application. With cele and and no burning damage modifiers other than 25might stacks that burning does 4k damage which is just a ton for an instant cast skill that also has a second one from a passive proc. Oh well the rest of the dd changes are fine, and that one isn’t bad, just I think it could have been better. Frostbow on the other hand got smiters booned, which is sad. The damage was crazy high against large hit boxes but against normal single targets, it was only a small dps increase over standard staff rotations which came with a high cost of a utility skill, and a high risk of long rooted cast time. They could have done something to keep the utility decent for something, such as healing and support which it was supposed to be in the first place.

It is a thing, just not a thing that anyone actually uses.

Belial.9350:

Stilgar.6437:

no it will not drop out of meta if these are the only changes. It even stays one category above the rest of meta. Burning is the same as before, mini-nerf on drake but buff on RoF. Might is still super high, you drop down couple stacks on average, barely noticeable.

If vigor nerf wasnt in the patch notes, you would have not noticed it was implemented, because ele still has 100% vigor uptime.

Burning is the same (even more burns in many situations now, slightly less in others), damage is basicly the same, same sustain, same mobility, same everything else, same meta (^2).

Can you explain to me why d/d ele wasn’t in top teams right before the June 23 patch then?

That isn’t completely true, there were still several high level teams that ran eles. However it also isn’t entirely false as some top teams did either cut their dd eles or have them re roll to other classes. oRNG and Abjured would be the obvious examples of the latter, on the other hand tcg always kept an ele as far as I can remember. This was the best balanced ele ever was, it was pretty much average in the class rankings on what to pick for your team.

Inflames.8026:

To me it seem like there are two sides here.
The people who play elementalist who is so shocked over the nerf.
And the people who try to see reason behind the nerfs.
These are small but nessesary tweaks to tone the ele down abit.
Nothing is set in stone and everything can change.
Noone will ever know until it goes live

You forgot a third group which started this thread. The group who doesn’t play elementalist, and wants it nerfed even harder so they can kill it easily.

mishkamba.6358:

ArthurDent.9538:

I honestly don’t see pug’s vs premades as a problem at all. Just because they are in a party, doesn’t mean they are well organized with a premeditated comp. I have tried joining a few pvp focused guilds so I can try to find new people to play with. And in these guild groups you so frequently get weak players, that I generally find it easier to get wins while solo qing. Sure if you run into an esl level team all qing together then gg but generally the premades I run into aren’t much stronger than pugs.

Not to offend but this kind of reply brings the suggestion of majority to “0” chance. Arthur, not to be rude but you know there is a problem with the whole thing. what your saying is not completely wrong in my opinion but your only referring to 30% un-organized premade vs 70% well premade groups.

sad part is ANET will not do anything about it. not to mention the lame and stupid reporting system. like what the hell, people rage quitting and afk’ng without getting any consequences.

Where are you getting those numbers from I ask? This is my experience from both sides of the coin, both joining groups, and fighting against them while solo. Sometimes you find well organized groups, but this is quite rare. The match making isn’t perfect but it does attempt to match premades with less skilled players against more skilled soloqers. I do find that it generally does a decent job of this, not perfect naturally but it is barely a problem.

I honestly don’t see pug’s vs premades as a problem at all. Just because they are in a party, doesn’t mean they are well organized with a premeditated comp. I have tried joining a few pvp focused guilds so I can try to find new people to play with. And in these guild groups you so frequently get weak players, that I generally find it easier to get wins while solo qing. Sure if you run into an esl level team all qing together then gg but generally the premades I run into aren’t much stronger than pugs.

Quadox.7834:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

The fact that d/d ele sustain was not touched is hilarious. They still will have perma vigor from water and Ring of fire even got a general buff. I guess we get to enjoy another 6 months of double/triple d/d ele.

Let’s be fair, the blind spam from blinding ashes was a big part of cele ele survivability and it was slightly nerfed.

It is actually a very substantial nerf for the trait. Almost all of dd ele’s burns are restricted to the fire attunement with the odd cleansing fires. Currently with a 5 second icd you can get a first blind early in the fire rotation, and still have a good oportunity to get the second blind either from lingering ring of fire, or from the second fire shield if you manage to land magnetic grasp/leap. With an 8 second icd, I don’t think there will be enough time to get the second blind with each fire rotation. So basically what was practically 2 blinds every rotation, is now just 1. The result is a 50% nerf which is never something to sneeze at.

As for that not being enough, it probably is. Just remember seemingly small changes can make a huge difference. For example from the big trait overhaul shoutbow got a lot of buffs being able to take several extra excellent traits (burst mastery, shrug it off, brawler’s recovery, defy the pain without losing out on any of their old traits). However nerfs to 2 traits made the build, as many warriors would like to say, “completely non viable”.

It might still be a dps increase against targets with large hit boxes, and naturally if you use line casting which pretty much no one does. Otherwise, it is useless now. Adding break bars will also gut skill 5 for pve so the whole utility is more or less dead outside of world boss trains where nothing really matters anyways.

The question is why wasn’t the dt change done 3 years ago.

If a rune turns out to be too strong, just nerf it. No point in allowing op runes to thrive in wvw and not balance them just because they aren’t in pvp.

Oh The Horror!

/faints dramatically

Grimfalcon.3847:

What I don’t understand is why d/d is getting a lot of hate again. I recently started playing this again after being gone for a year+ Has something changed to the d/d kit that makes it overwhelming? Or is it just celestial Amy that gives them the needed hp and healing power to live?

The synergy with celestial is a huge part about it. The build would still be pretty solid, and have a decent chance at staying meta with a soldier, carrion, or maybe marauder amulet, but celestial really just gives it everything it needs. That is what happens when you give a class the lowest base stats, then make every stat exceptionally useful for it. Then add an amulet that gives all stats and significantly more total to “make up” for its lack of specialization. Ele is more or less simply stat starved, and celestial allows it to feed that hunger and then some.

Now do it breaking the first bubble legitimately :p
Still really impressive.

RevanCorana.8942:

ele main arguments
“it’s easily avoidable L2P u suxx”

- Being avoidable is not the point, with only 15sec recharge it simply can’t be as good as purging flame period.
- It’s not necessarly visible during teamfights if there’s mesmer clones or minionmancers OR if there’s 1 elementalist in each team and you don’t know whose is it?
It can be used to you advantage to deal insane damage, way too much for a tank, because burning being like THE op condition that even +560 celestial gear makes it hurt real bad.
But that’s not all the infinite braindead might stacking adds up that’s now a total of 1310 condi dmg!!!
Needless to say such a number is about equal to most condi burst builds including carion guardian. Totally fair indeed that a profession with evades built in skills, infinite might, inifnite condi clear, mobility, perma stability etc etc… can also burst like a normal class.
I suggest you check out the 5 ele team on the go4gw2 replays, that was hilarious.

On my ele I win duels by literally facerolling 1-5, sadly.
Other class you must adapt, on ele others adapt to you.

The hyperbole is real. But you have a point, ease of avoidance should not play a factor in determining the power of a skill, only cool down and damage dealt if landed. By this logic, lets also nerf dragon’s tooth, churning earth, and lava font because so much damage against dumb people. By your logic kill shot also needs a serious nerf, I can’t pay attention to that warrior way off to the side during a team fight and it can pretty much one shot anything squishy.

As for the point about comparing it to purging flames, it isn’t better, it isn’t worse it is just different. Ring of fire has the advantage of a shorter cool down, and shorter cast time, both obviously significant advantages. Purging flames on the other hand has 3 significant advantages: Cleansing conditions on both user and allies, actually burns on spawn, not just when people walk through it, and is ground targeted. Condition cleanse is obviously a huge advantage. Burning on initial spawn means you can actually land the burning reliably on people who actually know not to walk through it. And ground targetting is actually a massive advantage as it allows you to use it on kiting enemies. Additionally putting it on an enemy trying to run away is nearly guaranteed to land 6 stacks of burning from the initial cast and positioning it so that wall spawns right in front of where they are about to run. You cannot achieve that reliability with ring of fire without comboing it with lightning flash, and that will still only land you 3 stacks of burning on the target.

Prism.5649:

Bandit.8279:

Stop walking across it silly. When your mom tells you the stove top is hot it means do not touch!

This.

The circle only applies three stacks of burning when the ability is initially cast. After that, you only get new stacks of burning if you stand on the actual ring. Standing inside the ring does NOT give you further stacks.

In the future it may be better to learn how an ability works before crying for a nerf.

It doesn’t even really give the 3 seconds on cast normally. Normally it is just a minor direct damage component on cast. Then once it is set it burns every time you pass through it without dodging. The one exception to where it burns on cast is if the target is standing exactly where the edge of the ring spawns, so you need to be a fairly specific distance from the ele, not too far or too close.

No coments on that passive? Shadow refuge, then spam backstab repeatedly till enemy dies never being allowed to even see your character much balance, such fun.

I love courtyard, it is a nice change of pace from time to time. I vote for it every time I get the chance but still don’t get it too often.

Laraley.7695:

Malchior.5732:

Laraley.7695:

Ara.4569:

nearlight.3064:

Also the only thing eles are particularly weak to is chill, because it kittens up their water attunement swap cooldown, which destroys them. However, this weakness is easy to mitigate simply because eles have a lot of condition removal. Stop drop and roll also exists, but can be wasted by burns or Ally cleanse procs.

What a convoluted way to say ele has no weakness.

You think so? Well-timed chill often leads to the ele death. Also, lets please stop saying ‘’eles have lots of condition removal’’. No, d/d ele has.

Specifically Water + 3x Cantrips. D/D Ele itself only has 1, while Staff has…however long Healing Rain is.

Lets be clear about this, d/d ele term is used to describe the current meta d/d spec.

Just the fact people completely leave out stuff like fresh air shows how unviable it is.

Funny thing is, before traits, d/d and s/d have the least amount of condi removal of any ele weapon set. Even considering traits, weapon sets with dagger off hand have the lowest potential condition removal as pretty much all the condi removal comes from cleansing fire and traits.

Wait, so you faced 5 builds focusing on burning damage, and you are surprised the majority of the damage you received was burning?

phirefox.2568:

Jekkt.6045:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Jekkt.6045:

“unrelenting assault is undodgeable” and yet i always double dodged/blocked/blinded it all the time. seriously you people that make posts like this just just don’t even care to learn how to counter a new class so you rather have it nerfed instead.

I wonder how one blinds something which is evading for 2s.
Even if possible, you can only blind 1 hit from the tons of hits it does.

If you call blocking and dodging “countering”, then thieves can counter Eles now?

if you blind during the casting time all hits miss. and i said counter the class, not the skill, or can you counter pistol whip and blurred frenzy when they’re evading?

It’s called Shocking Aura. Didn’t test it as of late, but if it wasn’t changed since the last time i’ve seen it, it should interrupt both Pistol Whip AND Blurred Frency – but as someone that was Ele for a kitten long time you probably know that :p In case of Pistol Whip you can also jump towards the Thief if you see his initial stunning hit incoming – you should keep your momentum in-Air (despite the Stun), and be able to avoid the vast majority of hits standing behind him while his Swords cuts the now empty space in front of him :p Blurred Frency itself isn’t that strong, and is used mostly for defensive purposes – since it roots, you might just avoid a few hits by walking outside it’s range (again, just possible due to forgiving damage modifier – walking out of a 100b for example can still have you take 5k+ damage if you are squishy). Or you single-dodge both skills (yes, unlike UA, dodging once will be enough to bring you out of the danger zone for those skills).

Just a quick look at those semi-similar Skills:

• Blurred Frency: (2.40) + Evasion + Self Rooting
• Pistol Whip: (3.33) + Evasion + Self Rooting
• Hundred Blades: (5.31) + Self Rooting
• Unrelenting Assault: (5.00) + Evasion + Gapcloser

To me it seems as if UA is like a glorified mix of Blurred Frency, Pistol Whip and Hundred Blades with an inbuilt Gapcloser. You could also call it a homing Hundred Blades Missile, if you want :P

Unrelenting Assault’s damage is really that high? That multiplier is insane, beyond insane really considering how hard it is to avoid/easy to land compared to the other skills there.

Stilgar.6437:

5/8 dont prevent at all vs stability, which is often the case, people save stability for stomps. Teammates dont need to rez you while in mist, they can use the time to heal up, put pressure on the other team. Rez until stomp is nearly done (or cleave too strong), then safely reposition while the rezer can take a break, then continue rezing. How is that not better then CC thats blinded, bodyblocked, ignored (stab/traits)? Died off point while kiting? no problem, get back on it and get rezed without loosing the point, got mesmer – portal to other side of the map and rez, etc. In teamfights your entire team can use the mist time to move and prepare for 3-4x rez under stab/protection/cc/healing fields/stealth etc.

Thief and ele 2-skill do basicly the exact same thing (move away from stomp) except ele is imune to teleport stomps and has a much larger area to move to (and can do stuff like climb stairs, use portals), how is that not outright better every single time? (ok maybe well timed long immobilize, but thats pretty rare)

Same with mesmer – stealth + reposition except you dont have control over where you land and depending on timing you can just get stomped on the first try.

Engi/War/Necro are the really bad ones, with very slow, obvious, easy to blind, single target CC (even a projectile on war/engi, you can just stand behind a pet or something).

Guard and ranger are better cause they AoE CC, so even if the stomper has stab, they CC the cleavers and make it easier to rez. And they have good 3-skill especially the ranger (+ pet CC).

I feel like all of the down states are actually pretty well balanced but balanced differently. Ele mesmer and thief are all very hard to stomp on the first try. Thief is the easiest of the three, but also the most likely to avoid multiple stomps thanks to its 3 (I think my record was like 6 stomps avoided just by having enough time to switch between using the 2 and 3 downed skills between stomp attempts, with allies periodically attempting to res who eventually got me up). However these three are all also the weakest in downed vs. downed battles and if they go down against another class 1v1 they will most likely lose.

Ranger, necro, and warrior, are all easy to stomp first try, but they are much more dangerous in downed vs. downed scenarios, which can actually be very useful. Guardian is some where in the middle of these 2 groups, their knock back is aoe, and difficult to dodge, and they will wreck a mes, thief or ele in downed vs. downed but they won’t beat necro, ranger, or warrior (vengeance though might just make warrior a draw in a sense).

Engi is the only class in my opinion with noticeably weak downed skills all around, though like thief, they have the potential to avoid multiple stomps if they get enough time to use #3 which can be quite valuable (and it can knock enemies off ledges in downed vs downed or skyhammer).

If I had to vote on the best overall downed state though, I would have to say mesmer. It is nearly guarenteed to avoid the first stomp (barring the odd reveal skill which is rare, or bad timing on the mesmer’s part). And if they still have illusions up they have a good chance to win many downed vs. downed battles.

Which would you be more likely to take in your build:

Rebound as it is now

or

An elite cantrip skill 60 second cooldown, 1/2 second cast time, that does literally absolutely nothing aside from proccing cantrip traits and rune set bonuses.

For me the choice would be saddeningly obvious.

NeXeD.3042:

otetas.9675:

NeXeD.3042:

I agree remove the celestial SIGNET! Leave the amulet though.

Cmon celestial necro isn’t op. The build Nos popularized isn’t all that tanky…. There are tanky variants but you sacrifice either a ton of crit chance and lf or you sacrifice weakness uptime, boon corrupts/or terror, and your auto condi transfer.

This is the most balanced I’ve seen Necromancers EVER in this game. There is only heavy condi pressure against heavy condi builds

Also why the hell am I back to limited posts I haven’t been infracted in months…..

You can use a rabid amulet for example as it covers ur condi pressure, crit chance and tanky statement you said.

Sacrificing all your power, vitality, ferocity, hp. Basically makes the might from cele signets useless.

Yeah, rabid would be a pretty terrible second choice of amulet for that build, I would go either carrion, or soldiers.

Quadox.7834:

I don’t think people realise how bad it would be If thief killed meta specs 1v1. This is exaxtly what the problem is right now with cele ele and the same problem with certain specs in the past such as old pistol whip. If a class with amazing mobility can 1v1, they could literally push into any point and force a 2v1. As soon as the 2 people are there to defend, the thief can just escape and get back to another point (mid probably) faster than the 2 other players. Even with just a few favourable matchups, this problem would arise.

The solution would be to make thieves choose between mobility and fight capability. For example, a thief without shadowstep or shortbow should be able to 1v1 well. Until the day thief meta no longer uses high mobility (shortbow), thief can’t be good at 1v1s.

Largely agree with this, and would like to add one more thing. Thief being able to 1v1 so well would be much worse then cele ele, since it is a burst spec. With cele ele it takes a while to get kills so you have time to rotate appropriately, with a highly mobile burst spec that can 1v1 well, targets will be dead before teammates can come for support.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Reducing next used utility skill cooldown by half would be nice.

Then it would basically be just a weaker version of the utility that is used, and exactly the same as a weaker version of mesmer’s mimic. It is supposed to be an elite, sure ele elites are all worse than several of the utilities but please don’t make that quite so obvious. Tornado may be weak but at least it is intimidating and cool looking, same with fgs. Rebound screams, “this is just a worse version of a utility skill and no number tweaking will ever change that”.

If the coding allows, they should give it a 1/2 second icd per target. That way it still punishes you for playing carelessly, however it should eliminate the bugging out and giving multiple stacks at once.

Sagat.3285:

Solori.6025:

Chokolata.1870:

PU is surely OP, not only does it gives huge stealth up time but also a lot of sustain through the boons.

I am all for a PU nerf.
But you can’t really say it makes that big of an impact in conquest style game modes.
There are much better traits for that.
You don’t really see PU outside of hotjoin and wvw

I see PU condi mesmer quite often actually.

Including Helseth at wts.

trunks.5249:

blubberblasen.3901:

it was the hidden elite skill from ele, because all elite from ele are op, like all skills with zero recharge.

1/4 cast time : “go to the forum and cry how OP all of the ele skills are” zero recharge.

… ah.. again .. anti ele thread..
… for your information: condi Ranger is lame, play melee ranger.
or l2p

what are you talking about crying? i said the guy was impressive.i just wanted to know what he did.has for melee vs condi ranger that’s a matter of a persons play style. no reason to be trolling on a legit question on a thread

He really didn’t do anything impressive his build is just hard counters condition builds harder than any other hard counter matchup in the game. Diamond skin makes him immune to conditions while his health is over 90% so basically if you don’t have any decent direct damage to break that threshold all of your conditions will do absolutely nothing. Because 90% is a pretty small margin for a non condi build, the trait is largely used for trolling condi builds, such as your self.

My suggestions:

Cleansing Fire: 1 stack of burning instead of 3 and duration increased to 6 seconds. Overall damage is halved as this could hit over 4k with celestial (requires 25 might stacks or burning duration runes/sigil). Which is just too high for an instant skill with great defensive utility.
Ring of fire: Same thing, 1 stack duration for 8 seconds (perhaps a small icd per target to prevent it bugging and giving multiple stacks instantly).
Reducing stacks and increasing duration makes the burning behave more like actual damage over time rather than burst damage. This also gives you more time to cleanse before taking much damage while taking substantially less damage even if you don’t cleanse. Increasing the duration also helps with uptime on the fire grandmaster minor which helps power eles which currently kind of suck.

Burning Fire: Might on cantrip reduced in duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds base. Gaining might from cantrips is much more passive with less counter play than comboing off of fields. Reduced duration of stacks rather than number of stacks as I believe that might should be something you stack before a big burst rather than something that is just always at high stacks all the time. Unfortunately A-net seems to think differently (see battle sigil change and duration of most might sources).

Start there, I think that will be plenty though I could be wrong.

Gabriell.4856:

ronpierce.2760:

Drennon.7190:

ronpierce.2760:

blah blah blah stealth too OP for my IQ

But seriously, thieves survival is too tied to stealth. Acro is trash now, we have low health, low toughness, 0 blocks, 0 invulns, etc etc.

If the balance team continues to hand out reveals like candy, then I would hope that thieves were given access to blocks or invulns. Kinda like how Mesmer can now out stealth, evade, invlun, and then camp stealth until all of their goodies are off cooldown again.

Your defense isn’t just tied to stealth. That’s your +1 mechanic and one of your flee mechanics. You also have unchallenged mobility that is the sole reason Magic Toker can basically single handedly carry a WTS win on caps and decaps.

Also, no need to get petty “low IQ”, it makes you look bad and unintelligent yourself. Stealth is a corny mechanic. Get over it. Also, Mesmers have more than they should. That isn’t news. I sure as hell wouldn’t want anyone bumped to their level.

Corny or not, stealth attack is a thief class mechanic. Why the hard counter? Either remove the hard counter or compensate in other areas.

Stealth is not a thief class mechanic, steal and initiative are. Stealth is a game mechanic universal to every class, thief simply happens to have access to more of it then other classes.

runeblade.7514:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

runeblade.7514:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Salamander.2504:

Bump: I still think protection should effect condition damage, in the same way that vulnerability now does.

Sure, once we get that boon that lets us ignore direct damage entirely for its duration.

You have Resistance (admittedly, not wide distribution, but it shouldn’t be either) and cleanses. Learn to use.

Something like Invulnerability?

Invulnerability doesn’t ignore condis

It also isn’t a boon and it does prevent new condis from being applied.

It doesn’t prevent existing condi from hurting you. If you got 17 stacks of bleed, you will die in your invulnerability state.

Then you should have used your invuln to prevent those 17 stacks of bleeding from being applied rather than using it after you got bursted.

If you take a ton of power damage before you use your invulnerability, then you will just die. It is the same thing, only difference, is with condis you get to see that you are about to die and have a small window of time to do something about it. With power you are just dead, no cleansing options available, no get out of jail free cards, dead. Invuln is just as much a counter to condis as it is to direct damage.

You managed to accomplish something quite impressive getting 17 stacks of burning on you from 1 ele. I tried to stack that much burn on a pve champ by spamming all my burning skills, and kiting it back and forth across ring of fire, then capping it off with cleansing fire. However alas the highest I was able to reach was 15 stacks and that was only for maybe a second. I suppose I could have gotten it higher with investment in Balthazar runes, and a sigil of smoldering, but suffice it to say you ate everything that he could have thrown at you and then went back a few more times for seconds.

Here is the good news, it has the shortest cooldown out of all of our elites, so it has the best synergy with lyssa and krait runes.

Though honestly a short/instant cast time cantrip that did literally nothing other than proc cantrip traits and rune bonuses would be better than rebound which is depressing.

This would be my most wanted change in the game right now. Please Anet stop being stubborn.

Liam McColgan.7689:

It’s nice to know that a year later, people are still running around like braindead chickens (no offence to the chickens out there) winning tournaments with double d/d cele ele. SMH. #ESPORTSlol.

On a more serious note, some of the Orng and Abjured games were epic.

I just can’t stand double cele ele comps being carried by the setup over more skilled (relying on rotations and co-ordinated burst) teams like TCG. Got NO time for that. (and its not an NA v Eu thing. I hated Cheese Mode for the exact same reason, except Abjurd are 10x more kitten)

And i really wish people would stop saying what amazing players they are.

My nan can run around self sustaining herself as d/d ele on a node. It’s the total opposite of what top tier team pvp play should be about, and no one can convince me otherwise.

Don’t let these braindead cele eles tell you how amazing they are. Watch the clutch plays from thief/mes/engi and then look at the ele plays…./15chars

Get your self and 4 other friends together, copy abjured’s comp, compete in a weekly cup, observe as you get rofl stomped, come back and say the same thing.

Maybe you just don’t understand the intricacies of ele but Phanta and Wakkey are ridiculously good at what they do.

savacli.8172:

Jerus.4350:

Element Two.7316:

savacli.8172:

I just now figured out why there’s a platypus over your chat box…

Yea to show his love for Cartoon Network children cartoons

I don’t know why I’m admitting I know this, but Disney Channel not Cartoon Network. Actually a decently funny show.

Busted

Phineas and Ferb is a great show

I have found tempest to be meh but the elite is an inexcusably bad idea. It is so boring since even if you use it at a great time, you will not see the benefit for at least several seconds until the skill you used it for is finally off cooldown. 25% just doesn’t make much of a difference even if you manage to sync it with your allies big cooldowns. You get to reduce that nice 120s cd elite skill to 90 seconds, whoopidy doo. And unless the ally uses that skill again before the cd would have reached 120 seconds, then the whole skill was wasted giving a mere 30 second window to gain any benefit from the skill.

Then of course how often are you actually going to get it on skills that are critical. For your self one would think it would be generally used for cantrips but this wouldn’t work as cantrips are generally used to instantly get out of rough spots, the cast time on the elite skill simply makes it impractical for such situations. As you will need to prep it before you use the cantrip, and then not use any other skills before the key one.

Then there is getting it for allies skills. This will never be useful out side of super organized groups. You need to know exactly when your ally is using a key skill or else, you will end up just wasting it on a skill that really doesn’t matter. The best part is, it works on auto attacks, so it will reduce the cd of 0 on those skills by 25% to wait for it… 0. You can bet in any non hyper organized group this will be happening a lot.

And lastly what does this have to do with the elementalist’s/tempest’s theme at all? It seems more fitting for the chronomancer and just doesn’t make sense at all. This skill needs the guardian tomes treatment and should be completely scrapped and changed into something completely different.