Guild Wars 2

Not really my cup of tea but grats to those who have been waiting for something of this sort.

Kichwas.7152:

Coulter.2315:

Kichwas.7152:

I can’t see any reason to allow shirtless. This isn’t a KungFu or Rambo simulation… :P
- Nor is the genre ‘Sword and Sorcery’ but is instead ‘Steampunk’.

Are you under the impression that ONLY KungFu, Rambo or Sword&Sorcery people ever go about shirtless? Seems like a very narrow view. GW2 is a mix of many different art styles and looks, all people are wanting is another option.

No but I -AM- under the impression that those are the primary 3 genres where you can run around ‘without an outfit’ and not be killed in seconds by somebody with a sharp stick or fast moving metal stone.

In the genres where we have been conditioned to remove our helmets and/or shirts thanks to Hollywood – this is actually a very good way to end up missing a head… or a body, depending on which end ends up in the camera after your first encounter with the enemy… but we accept it because its how actors get billing for the resume…

In the history of Asian military campaigns, the guy doing spin kicks while wearing a farmer’s outfit ended up dead… thanks to the guy in armor with a big sword… and in wars from WWI up to modern day, the Rambo hero that took off his helmet… decorated the cammo of the guy next to him with brains thanks to the sniper… and as for Sword and Sorcery… an armor style that comes from the ancient Greeks… (because actual other low tech cultures did have armor – just made from wood, bone, leather, shell, etc) well, back then pretty much everybody ended up dead, and war was grizzly… and then Romans came along, dressed in armor, and conquered them so fast nobody even had time to change the religion or switch out the local statues…

We’re in a Steampunk MMO.

This genre isn’t known for shirtless barbarians and shirtless Shaolin guys with nunchuks. Nor is it known for actors who have accents even in their native language, and hang out in film noir jungle scenes talking about depression…

- Shirtless isn’t in the script for this genre.

This genre (as you put it) has people running around in light clothing, that does not necessarily even cover vital organs, with no helmet. Heavy armor exists in the setting that does not cover vital organs. Cloth or leather clothing is not any better for stopping a bullet or heavy shrapnel than would bare skin.

GW2 has elements of steampunk, but also elements of high fantasy, sword and sorcery, and myriad other subgenres of fantasy literature/gaming.

maddoctor.2738:

If by “unique” you mean using traits that are completely useless then you are right. But by limiting worthless choices and making more builds viable it will improve variety, not reduce it.

The change will not make “more builds viable.” It cannot. Currently 100% of all builds are viable (though some are obviously much more powerful than others). The number of options currently are greater than will be the case after the changes. 100% of X, when X is greater than Y, is greater than 100% of Y.

Remember that viable does not mean optimal and that people can/have/do play builds without even choosing traits. If a no trait build is viable then any build with any combination of traits will be as well.

Eolirin.1830:

Talonblaze.3175:

phys.7689:

if you werent playing a meta build, there is a very high chance your build will die.

To add to this, it also kills the “play how you want” philosophy.
My builds may not be ‘optimal’ but I play them, I find them fun.

If I can’t play how I want and enjoy, I won’t be playing at all. I most certainly won’t be encouraging others to either.

That’s great until they start making actually hard content where your massively underperforming, but “fun” build cannot function and you’re denied the ability to play it

The whole point of the ability to adjust builds on the fly is having the option to adjust your build to the content you are playing. One does not need to remove the ability to create non optimized fun builds in order to provide content that requires a more focused build.

Jermoe Morrow.9501:

Orpheal.8263:

God I hope yes, implementing that junk was a bad idea fro mthe very begin on …

Instead wastign ressources on racial skills, Anet should have given instead of those 4 racial skills every class just 4 more useful utility skills

And now with the Revenant comign to the game, we will see a class, that has on its own no space for utility/racial skills, because the legendaries will always change out completely the whole right side of your skill bar completely.

SO what does it make for any sense to keep that crapyp thought out system of those racial skills, when theres a new playable class, that won’t be able to use any of them cause of its whole own class gameplay design???

Racial Skills should get completely redesigned into RACIAL TRAITS if at all

Racial skills are fun. They were never meant to be op meta skills, just something fun to play with, and they are some of my favorite skills. I get a special joy watching the prayer to Dwayna animation as I heal my human guardian, or turning my Norn into a giant raven. Sure, i’m not using them in a dungeon speed run, but in open world pve I use them all the time.

If anything, Revenant is a mistake from the very beginning if it is really a class with no meaningful customization in a game about customization. I know many people use cookie cutter builds, but this is ridiculous.

Also, racial traits are stupid. What is the point of having racial abilities if nobody sees them.

This is not, “a game about customization.”

ronpierce.2760:

phys.7689:

Snip

If you run in 4 trees right now you’d be, what, 4/4/4/2/0? I refuse to believe losing 2 points in some tree somehow breaks all possible functionality of a build that can’t be made up for by having 6/6/6 instead. I don’t know of any builds that specific. And while, sure you lose out on some cool builds your way, you’re also gaining the opportunity to make 3 Grandmaster trait builds which was never before possible, which opens up a lot of exciting options. Generally speaking, GMs are more game changing than adept traits you may have spread over 4-5 trait lines.

You don’t have to, “break all possible functionality,” to reduce the fun in something. Something can retain some functionality while becoming less interesting and less fun, as seems to be the case (to me) with this new system.

Duke Nukem.6783:

the instance owner has every right to be a “jerk”

I would not be surprised if this mentality is part of why the system changed to what we have now. If the instance owner system was being interpreted as license to violate the spirit of the ToS then no wonder it went away. Instance owners who believed that they had a right to be jerks are now reaping what they sowed.

Duke Nukem.6783:

Ashen.2907:

tramwajarz.2369:

When I create a party and make requirements for it, it is my right to moderate my own party. Those people who joined me agreed to be my guests.

You are mistaken. You have no such right.

Anet owns the game and they do not grant you that right. In fact they have specifically chosen to deny the existence of that supposed right.

Where do people agree to be your guests? Is there a form they sign?

your wrong he does have that right, it is an intrinsic agreement of entering the party, its very simple to understand that you are entering someone Else’s party, dont over analyze it

Nope. The only people who get to assign rights on private property are the owners of that property. Here that is Anet and they have specifically denied the existence of the right you claim. Cough up a few tens of millions of dollars (or more) to buy Anet and GW2 and you can have the right you claim.

Currently I save up skill point scrolls so that I can instantly build up a new alt’s skill selection.

Am I correct in interpreting the change as meaning that I will no longer be able to quickly build a character without running around doing skill challenges ?

tramwajarz.2369:

When I create a party and make requirements for it, it is my right to moderate my own party. Those people who joined me agreed to be my guests.

You are mistaken. You have no such right.

Anet owns the game and they do not grant you that right. In fact they have specifically chosen to deny the existence of that supposed right.

Where do people agree to be your guests? Is there a form they sign?

Malediktus.9250:

Exun.7825:

Astralporing.1957:

Exun.7825:

When only 1% of people would have one we will be able to talk about legendariness.

Um, you do realize, that likely the number of people with legendaries is still way below 1%, right?

Does anyone have figures? I would like to know the sharp truth.
If it is considering the number of items per number of total accounts then this is bad because a non negligible amount of total accounts may not even have reached lvl 80 or are not playing anymore. And some people own several legendaries.

Sometime you go in HL areas and can see like a battalion of Twilight, it make me feel penniless. I’ve got Cobalt which is easy to spot cause of the blue fire and I’ve the impression I meet more people with Twilight than with Cobalt

If you count abandoned, new and bank accounts then yes the ratio is probably 1% or lower. For people who play over a year the ratio feels more like 50%… Most people I know have 5+ legendaries.

Most of the people I know (all have been here since launch) have zero legendaries….and when I say, “most,” I really mean, “all.”

Tigaseye.2047:

Ashen, I wouldn’t play a game like this if I didn’t have a reasonable amount of time.

I would consider it totally inconsiderate to try to impose my small amount of free time on other players.

I would just have to leave mid dungeon, or go play a single player game, or play elements of the game where I could leave at any time, if I only had a very small amount of time to spare.

I wouldn’t try to make everyone else fit into my time constraints.

Of course I would care if someone, intentionally, tried to deprive me of something by pressing a button, but that is not the same, at all.

Newer players, or players who want to play in a more interesting (less utterly boring) way aren’t intentionally depriving you of anything.

They are just trying to enjoy the game they (probably mistakenly, as it turns out) bought.

The way the newer player is playing is not more interesting or less boring for some players. In fact it is less interesting and more boring. In fact the basic design of the game assumes that players will grow beyond being new/inexperienced.

Just as it would be unreasonable for a speedrun er to join my two hour RP dungeon run expecting a fast and efficient run or for an average casual player to join and expect to be able to complete the run in an hour and a half, its unreasonable for my RP friends and I to join a group labeled as a speed run and expect to be able to impose our time frame for completion on them. Different people enjoying the game in different ways. I will never join a dungeon run listed as a speedrun and assume that speedrunners will probably never join an RP event. Not a problem.

If an in game event or activity is advertised for a certain playstyle, joining it with the intention of not participating, when your lack of participation means that it is nonger possible to complete the activity in the advertised manner, it is no different than pressing a button to prevent others from achieving what they want in game.

Cuddy.6247:

Ashen.2907:

Cuddy.6247:

I’m not really against elitists playing with elitists but shucks…if it makes that big of a difference in someone’s life, I don’t put much stock in your life (or your opinions, for that matter). Why someone like @Tigaseye would be comfortable with imposing a different value system is absurd. Snack pack throwers deserve our sympathy, not our scorn.

I dont take this game seriously enough to worry about shaving time off of a dungeon run either. But there is no more inherent value in trying to get one’s time for a mile run down to four minutes than there is for doing the same for a dungeon path in GW2. I personally wouldnt call someone out for trying to do the former nor would I suggest that others purposefully attempt to prevent them from succeeding.

The difference between a 10 minute mile run (lol four-minute mile, that’s a goal but a four-minute mile is like the highest standard of professional runners) and GW2 is pretty simple: Athletics are an accomplishment, video games aren’t. I can’t take someone’s opinion seriously if they’re deluded enough to think that video games are, or can be, an accomplishment.

Because here’s the simple reality: video game achievements are illusory. Accomplishments in a video game are narrow, specific and non-transferable. Any comparison is disingenuous.

How does one transfer a track and field accomplishment? How is running one specific TnF distance not narrow or specific? Most (competitive) runners specialize on a very narrow range of distances.

The four minute mile is not the highest standard of professional runners, but if you like lets use 5 minutes instead. The point is a personal goal to be pushed if possible. An accomplishment is anything that can be accomplished, particularly if it takes effort or skill.

I tend to think that someone who got their mile time down to 5 minutes (Ive only managed to break that time once but Ive never been a professional runner) has accomplished more than someone who has managed to achieve a time in a video game that most people cannot, but the reality of the matter is that this demonstrates bias on my part (and yours apparently) not that there is anything inherently more of value or worthy of being considered an achievement in endeavor than the other.

Tigaseye.2047:

Ashen.2907:

Different people have fun in different ways. Urging people to not have fun in a game they are playing is probably not a good idea.

If someone’s idea of having fun is to exclude other people they deem less worthy, then they shouldn’t play an MMO.

Or, they should only play it in a totally private (i.e. invisible) way, with a group of pre-selected friends (i.e. they shouldn’t list, or join listed, groups).

Otherwise, they risk putting off the next generation of players and that is not OK for the future of gaming.

Their idea of fun is not excluding other people. Its playing efficiently and achieving certain objectives. People have different playstyles. They will enjoy different things. That is just how things work.

If A couple of friends and I decide that we want to use an AC dungeon run as part of a RP event that has the potential to cause the dungeon run to take a couple of hours due to stopping for RP chat frequently, would it bother you (assuming it was your party we joined) if you have only half that amouunt of time available to play?

If I had a button that allowed me to reduce your chance of getting a particular reward that you are interested in wod it bother you if I pressed it because doing so was fun for me?

People working out a meta, the fastest approaches, most efficient builds, and using them does not seem as harmful as you are claiming. If it were then there would not be a sufficiently significant number of players taking that approach to negatively impact those who dont choose to play that way. The only way that said playstyle could prevent others from playing as they see fit is if the vast majority of players were choosing to focus on efficient play. If the vast majority prefers that playstyle then removing that playstyle would not be better for the player base as a whole.

Cuddy.6247:

I’m not really against elitists playing with elitists but shucks…if it makes that big of a difference in someone’s life, I don’t put much stock in your life (or your opinions, for that matter). Why someone like @Tigaseye would be comfortable with imposing a different value system is absurd. Snack pack throwers deserve our sympathy, not our scorn.

I dont take this game seriously enough to worry about shaving time off of a dungeon run either. But there is no more inherent value in trying to get one’s time for a mile run down to four minutes than there is for doing the same for a dungeon path in GW2. I personally wouldnt call someone out for trying to do the former nor would I suggest that others purposefully attempt to prevent them from succeeding.

Cuddy.6247:

Harper.4173:

Cuddy.6247:

Harper.4173:

Just because the game is designed to be casual friendly doesn’t mean the veteran players have to be casual friendly. Being friendly and nice towards a group of players is a choice.

Some people choose to be friendly and help casuals. I usually just avoid them every chance I get.

Players that expect the game to give them all the info they need to play are perfectly fine – but they shouldn’t expect people who take their performance and execution seriously to give them the time of day.

If you can’t bother to watch a 10 minute guide on the dungeon run you’re about do to – I can’t bother to carry you through it.

Players need to realize that the path to self-improvement comes from within.

If you can’t bother to be kind, I can’t bother to treat you with respect or disregard.

The path to snack pack throwing begins with this kind of jargon.

See? I can deploy euphemisms as a “point” too.

And this is exactly why you and me should never play together in GW2.
I don’t play this game to have a sandbox environment of niceness and patting each other’s back. I play it to get stuff done.

You play this game for completely different reasons than I do and because we have different objectives and means we should most likely never associate.

Now I will never join your party and tell you what to do or how to play – so please – live and let live and never join mine.

I urge you to find better time management if 5 minutes is an appreciable amount of time for you.

I urge you to notice that a player will perform best in gear they’re comfortable with.

I urge you to compare the results of playing with good players, regardless of their gear, versus bad players in zerker.

It’s so easy to turn these euphemisms around.

Different people have fun in different ways. Urging people to not have fun in a game they are playing is probably not a good idea.

Accomplishing objectives as fast/efficient as possible, regardless of the exact time difference is enjoyable for some people. Shaving even fractions of a second off of a personal best time can be a fun achievement for such people. If such doesnt matter to you that is perfectly fine. Play how you want….and let others do the same.

Tigaseye.2047:

Harper.4173:

Tigaseye.2047:

Cuddy.6247:

Tigaseye.2047:

Harper.4173:

Tigaseye.2047:

Valky.2574:

Casual game usually = casual community . shocking i know

You would think it would and yet, still, the hardcore types tend to act like they’re in charge and that there is something wrong with being a casual.

When, actually, if this is supposed to be a casual-friendly game, they are the ones who shouldn’t be here, if anyone shouldn’t.

…and I say this as someone who is not, necessarily, that casual.

Certainly in terms of the time I tend to put into a game.

But, I will never, ever, think like these people.

I didn’t in WoW and I won’t here.

Nobody said there’s something wrong with being casual. You can be casual. You can be the majority.
There’s something wrong with joining parties that don’t want you. There’s something wrong with being “casual” and attempting to play with people who aren’t and who don’t want to play with you.

Just like it’s wrong to be “hardcore” and join casual runs and start telling everyone what you think they should do.

People should play with people of a similar mind.
I’d dare say there are less hardcore players joining casual runs and being terrible and annoying than there are casual players joining hardcore runs and ruining the fun for everybody.

No, people can do what they like.

It’s their game, too.

I, personally, wouldn’t, as I don’t need the stress just to endure a criminally boring skip>stack>melee nightmare.

However, if other people want to, they can.

Unfortunately, the game then allows you to kick them, if you want, but they can still join what they like, whenever they like.

In fact, increasingly, having read some of these replies, I would encourage thick skinned people to join groups that exclude them.

This is usually what I imagine happens on the forums most of the time. I’ve played with good players, and not fitting min-maxing criteria doesn’t slow the game down by any considerable amount. I imagine that 9/10 players here who gripe about bad players need to be carried, since it’s apparently so inconvenient to run “normally.”

Quite.

Either that or they’re goldsellers, or otherwise very greedy players, who only care about the gold per minute they can earn.

Certainly, the WoW EU forums appeared to be quite full of those kind of players, so I have no reason to think this would be different.

If you think about it, who would tend to hang around forums and fiercely defend a boring, but lucrative, playstyle?

Who would have most to lose, if it was changed?

“or otherwise very greedy players,” I guess i somewhat fall under this category. I value my game time and want to get the most out of it.
The problem is what you describe to be “boring but lucrative” I consider fun. Why? Because I have fun by getting stuff. By getting rewards. As many rewards as possible and as fast as possible. That’s my fun in this game.

I have fun by doing things fast, efficiently and without problems.
So what you might consider " boring " might actually be someone else’s source of enjoyment in the game.

Also this thread is not about defending a certain play style. I’m not here to defend or say that one play style is better than another.

I’m here defending people’s right to play with whomever and however they want. Something you want as well but only when it suits you and works in your favor.

The phrase you are looking for, to describe yourself, is utterly selfish.

Selfishness should never be encouraged, or rewarded; especially in a group situation (like an MMO).

That is why you should be disrupted.

Ideally that would be by the game devs, realising the issues they have created and dealing with them in a timely fashion; but it would appear that they are in some sort of deep state of denial, lack the ability to deal with it and/or can’t be bothered.

Then why are you the one encouraging selfish behavior?

He is suggesting that everyone be allowed to play how they want while you are suggesting that people selfishly impose their preferences on others, denying anyone but themselves the ability to enjoy the game as they see fit.

The Ranger class.

Spyritdragon.6048:

i play pretty much exclusively asura,

Spyritdragon.6048:

and… some of the hairstyles are just strange,

Well, yeah. Strange appearance pretty much defines Asuran aesthetics.

I am sorry to be blunt OP but you think wrong. Your message would be stronger without any claim or reference to speaking for other players that you do not even know.

Danikat.8537:

Many people compare paying a sub to seeing a movie or buying coffee. Would you buy a ticket for a movie you’re never going to see? Buy a coffee then throw it away without drinking it? I assume the answer is no. So why would I pay for a game I’m not playing?

I will try to answer this since I did make the comparison you mention.

For $15 at the movie theater I can expect a 90 minute, sometimes longer, show. A subscription to an MMO would need only provide me with five minutes per day of entertainment, perhaps half an hour per week, to exceed that.

No I wouldn’t buy a ticket to a movie that I never intend to see but, by definition, if we have bought the game, have installed it, and so on the intention to play is there. I it looks as if my schedule for an upcoming month was going to be so tightly packed that I could not expect to find half an hour a week to log in then I would unsubscribe for that month.

All of that, of course, on the assumption that I consider the game worth paying for. Such is not currently the case with GW2.

lordkrall.7241:

^ Why do people keep assuming that they are not releasing it just to annoy people? Maybe there are actual reasons for it? Such as bugs and such that needs to be fixed but being put on the very end of the queue due to being very low priority.

We were given an explanation for why it hadn’t returned. It was not bugs. That reason (midst of a living story season) no longer applies.

lordkrall.7241:

And yet another one that completely disregards the fact that they HAVE acknowledge it and even given us information about the fact that it WILL be back. In this very thread.

It is not a fact that it will be back until such a time as it is actually back. We have been told, on multiple occasions, by Anet representatives, that when they say something, “will,” happen, they actually mean that something, “might,” happen.

Move.

I mean your character. While fighting. You can use almost every ability while moving around. Do so. It helps.

Don’t forget to dodge. Pay attention to mob animations. Learn them. Dodge when the ones that you have learned to associate with heavy hitting attacks or strong control abilities come up.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Ashen.2907:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Ashen.2907:

An individual company has no control over state or local sales taxes so expecting them to be responsible for informing the citizens who chose those taxes seems silly to me. “I voted for an 11% sales tax rate but am unwilling to figure out what that means so someone else who had no say in it should be expected to do my math for me.”

Expecting a business to foot the cost of changing price tags every time the local government or citizens decide to change tax rates is outright ludicrous (IMO).

You didn’t say what the alternative should be? Who pays for it then? Does the government raise taxes to pay for businesses cost of changing price tags?

Currently the company pays for its own tags (but certainly incorporates costs into its pricing model) because it decides when it is going to change them. If voters decide to require use government authority to force a private company to do their thinking for them then the voters should foot the bill.

Then they will need a way to make sure that businesses aren’t padding the bill to the government and claiming that it costs more than it does, which would drive taxes up higher to either pay for the padded claims or pay for putting in a regulatory institution which investigates enough claims to keep the businesses reasonably honest.

All of which comes back to the idea that voters shouldn’t expect others, non governmental entities, to be required to do their math for them. The merchant lists what THEY are charging for an item.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Ashen.2907:

An individual company has no control over state or local sales taxes so expecting them to be responsible for informing the citizens who chose those taxes seems silly to me. “I voted for an 11% sales tax rate but am unwilling to figure out what that means so someone else who had no say in it should be expected to do my math for me.”

Expecting a business to foot the cost of changing price tags every time the local government or citizens decide to change tax rates is outright ludicrous (IMO).

You didn’t say what the alternative should be? Who pays for it then? Does the government raise taxes to pay for businesses cost of changing price tags?

Currently the company pays for its own tags (but certainly incorporates costs into its pricing model) because it decides when it is going to change them. If voters decide to require use government authority to force a private company to do their thinking for them then the voters should foot the bill.

Adry.7512:

Kartel.2561:

I don’t pay subs for games. Period. Yes I can afford it, but it’s a matter of principal. I don’t like feeling like my account is held hostage and that I have another kitten bill to keep up with. I don’t have a problem spending money on games. I’ve spent hundreds on GW2.

But it’s important that it be my choice and time without feeling like my account is being held hostage, like no matter how much money I dump into it, it will never be mine. I buy things,; I don’t rent them if I can avoid it. And a game is something I can live without.

Even as attached as I am to this franchise, as soon as it betrays the customer relationship we had, it’s as dead to me as my ex-wife.

well said.

Agreed.

All too many people dismiss those who don’t want to pay a sub fee as being cheap or unwilling to pay for what they receive. The reality is that some are just that but some portion of those opposed to sub fees just don’t want to feel as if they are renting their entertainment. They want to buy their games and are willing to spend the money to do so.

An individual company has no control over state or local sales taxes so expecting them to be responsible for informing the citizens who chose those taxes seems silly to me. “I voted for an 11% sales tax rate but am unwilling to figure out what that means so someone else who had no say in it should be expected to do my math for me.”

Expecting a business to foot the cost of changing price tags every time the local government or citizens decide to change tax rates is outright ludicrous (IMO).

I am happy to spend $15 a month on a subscription for a game for which I can justify that ongoing fee. Its less than the cost of a trip to the movie theater. Less than what I spend on coffee over the course of three days. Unfortunately I don’t think that I could justify spending money on GW2 as it stands right now.

Guhracie.3419:

Ashen.2907:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ashen.2907:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ashen.2907:

Charging for a service and then not providing it is what separates the SAB situation from the general PVE, WvW, and PvP situations. All of those portions of the game arre available to be played. SAB is not. None of those other portions of the game had an access fee beyond the basic game purchase. Anet did sell access to SAB for a fee above and beyond the cost of the game.

Charging for a service/product and then not providing it is not an ethical business practice. Stating that the product might be provided at some point in the future, maybe, does not change that.

Knowledge of SAB being limited available content with no set release schedule at the introduction of that coin was widely available. Players should have thought first before impulsively buying the coin if they truly have issues about not being able to use it at the moment. Anet is not at fault for players not doing the due diligence to at least think before they open their wallets.

They’ve said that they have plans to bring SAB back. That post on the French forums stated it would be after the expansion which makes sense. My advice to everyone is that’s upset about this is to never buy anything that is only temporarily available.

They have plans to perhaps bring it back.

There is a difference between at that moment and a period of years later. Buying a product that is labeled as providing infinite access if one desires such is not impulsive.

Spin it how you like, the service was charged for but is not being provided.

It was for infinite lives, not access.

Lives are the ability to play/access the content. The word, “continue,” refers to the ability to continue to play.

Some people have no interest in discussing things like reasonable expectations. It is my experience that those people are just not worth engaging with, after a certain point. I mean, I’d personally wonder how long people should be expected to be patient, but if someone seems to think that two years is a reasonable amount of time, it’s just not worth asking.

If there were actual technical problems, which were explained to an extent, and a time-line for correcting them in order to return the paid for service to function were provided, and refunds were offered to those desiring such, I would not have an issue with a protracted wait when dealing with something as complex as an MMO.

But taking away a service after it has been paid for, not providing a timeline for its return, indicating that its only a possibility that it will ever come back (Anet has redefine “absolutely,” and, “will,” as meaning, “perhaps,” or, “might,”), and not offering a refund even after paying customers have been without access to the service for which they have paid for a period of years is unethical.

MrH.2591:

The game gets very choppy during world bosses and WvW, no matter how good your hardware is. Dropping down to 25fps with high end hardware isn’t acceptable. The reason they haven’t bothered upgrading the engine is because of people like the ones in this thread who claim the game runs “fine” on their low spec laptop, when in reality they’re getting 15fps which is unplayable but they’re used to it so it seems OK. WoW upgraded from DX9 to DX11 during an expansion and it greatly improved the frame rate, so there’s no reason Anet couldn’t do the same.

If they are playing then it is by definition not unplayable.

Ayrilana.1396:

Ashen.2907:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ashen.2907:

Charging for a service and then not providing it is what separates the SAB situation from the general PVE, WvW, and PvP situations. All of those portions of the game arre available to be played. SAB is not. None of those other portions of the game had an access fee beyond the basic game purchase. Anet did sell access to SAB for a fee above and beyond the cost of the game.

Charging for a service/product and then not providing it is not an ethical business practice. Stating that the product might be provided at some point in the future, maybe, does not change that.

Knowledge of SAB being limited available content with no set release schedule at the introduction of that coin was widely available. Players should have thought first before impulsively buying the coin if they truly have issues about not being able to use it at the moment. Anet is not at fault for players not doing the due diligence to at least think before they open their wallets.

They’ve said that they have plans to bring SAB back. That post on the French forums stated it would be after the expansion which makes sense. My advice to everyone is that’s upset about this is to never buy anything that is only temporarily available.

They have plans to perhaps bring it back.

There is a difference between at that moment and a period of years later. Buying a product that is labeled as providing infinite access if one desires such is not impulsive.

Spin it how you like, the service was charged for but is not being provided.

It was for infinite lives, not access.

Lives are the ability to play/access the content. The word, “continue,” refers to the ability to continue to play.

Ayrilana.1396:

Ashen.2907:

Charging for a service and then not providing it is what separates the SAB situation from the general PVE, WvW, and PvP situations. All of those portions of the game arre available to be played. SAB is not. None of those other portions of the game had an access fee beyond the basic game purchase. Anet did sell access to SAB for a fee above and beyond the cost of the game.

Charging for a service/product and then not providing it is not an ethical business practice. Stating that the product might be provided at some point in the future, maybe, does not change that.

Knowledge of SAB being limited available content with no set release schedule at the introduction of that coin was widely available. Players should have thought first before impulsively buying the coin if they truly have issues about not being able to use it at the moment. Anet is not at fault for players not doing the due diligence to at least think before they open their wallets.

They’ve said that they have plans to bring SAB back. That post on the French forums stated it would be after the expansion which makes sense. My advice to everyone is that’s upset about this is to never buy anything that is only temporarily available.

They have plans to perhaps bring it back.

There is a difference between at that moment and a period of years later. Buying a product that is labeled as providing infinite access if one desires such is not impulsive.

Spin it how you like, the service was charged for but is not being provided.

Charging for a service and then not providing it is what separates the SAB situation from the general PVE, WvW, and PvP situations. All of those portions of the game arre available to be played. SAB is not. None of those other portions of the game had an access fee beyond the basic game purchase. Anet did sell access to SAB for a fee above and beyond the cost of the game.

Charging for a service/product and then not providing it is not an ethical business practice. Stating that the product might be provided at some point in the future, maybe, does not change that.

Eidolonemesis.5640:

Just because I used the words ‘ignorant’ and ‘entitled’ in ways you obviously do not understand, merely going by misplaced assumption thinking you understand the way I used them when you do not, does not mean some of the things I pointed out are not true or have no ground whatsoever.

I understand, “ignorant,” and, “entitled,” just fine. If you are using them in a manner that is not consistent with their actual meaning in the English language, then that is something different of course.

Eidolonemesis.5640:

That makes no sense. It is a catch-22 with you…

That is not a Catch 22.

Eidolonemesis.5640:

Had I not used those two words, you would have been in agreement with me? Yet because I did, you do not agree with anything I have pointed out?

You might want to read my statement again. I did not say what you seem to be claiming.

Eidolonemesis.5640:

The bottom line is you are either ‘for’ what I have pointing out and suggested or ‘against’ what I have pointed out and suggested. There is no other way to cut it.

This is incorrect. One can also not care one way or the other. Painting the entire world in terms of being, “for me or against me,” is questionable.

Eidolonemesis.5640:

Furthermore, why are you getting so bent out of shape if those two words do not pertain to you specifically? You are getting on a defense as if they do….

I am not bent out of shape. I merely choose to not support those who call others names for not agreeing with them or who claim to be entitled to something that belongs to others.

Eidolonemesis.5640:

That being said, I think I have been more than polite throughout this discussion (despite my upset) seeings how I have not used profane words where other thread composers would have used many by now.

Insulting others and claiming to be entitled to determination of others’ property is, “more than polite,” now ?

And, as mentioned previously, it is not physically possible for someone joining now to have an experience equal to what was experienced by those who played the content when it was new, no matter what Anet does.

Eidolonemesis.5640:

Eidolonemesis.5640:

Maybe the reason why you guys (the community) are no longer bringing this up is because, yea, Guild Wars 2 is two years old now and most of you veteran players have already experienced Season 1’s content, therefore, why bother bringing it up?

That kind of reasoning, though, to no longer bring this up is ignorant since we should all be pushing for an equal gameplay experience for everyone.

Siphaed.9235:

P.P.P.S. Try not to call people “ignorant”, especially when you’re trying to make an argument for them to agree with you.

That is because going by how the majority often goes about their reasoning (as exampled in the above quoted from me) it is a valid reason for me to call such reasoning ignorant, that which was directed only to those it may concern, yet certainly not everybody as you seem to believe.

As for the rest of what you said, I have already addressed most of it in other comments.

You disagreeing with a point does not make that point ignorant.

You supporting a position does not mean that we all should.

An equal experience is not physically possible for everyone. In order for it to be so we would need to provide time travel to all new players so that they could experience content at the same time and in the same manner as was the case for those who partook of the experience when it was new. Even if the entirety of season one was reintroduced today it would not be an equal experience to when it was new for the entirety of the player base.

I might have been inclined to support the OP’s desire if it weren’t for his decision to throw around words like ignorant and entitled.

Whole lotta wrong in that old linked post.

Ayrilana.1396:

Ashen.2907:

A company with high standards of ethical business practices would honor your request OP. Good luck, but do not hold your breath here.

No. Companies do not allow refunds whenever and for whatever reasons customers want. SAB is coming back in the future as has been stated by Anet. Currently the team that designed SAB are wrapped up in finishing the expansion. When they’ve finished, this will free them to work on other projects such as SAB.

Actually companies often do provide refunds for customers desiring them. That is beside the point though. This is not a situation where a customer has randomly decided that they no longer desire a product and so are asking for a refund. This is a situation where a service has been paid for but is not being provided.

“We might (Anet has established that, “absolutely,” and, “will,” mean, “possibly,” or, perhaps,“) provide the service at some undefined point in the future,” is not an ethical justification for refusing refunds on a paid service that has not been provided for a periid measured in years.

Guardian of Angels.9867:

I can’t really be bothered with titles in GW2

Titles don’t feel as exclusive or awesome as gw1 (maybe because gw1 titles were a lot harder to get).

A company with high standards of ethical business practices would honor your request OP. Good luck, but do not hold your breath here.

Akagami.9861:

Ashen.2907:

Akagami.9861:

Wintyr.1780:

so let me understand you scammed the system to save on TP costs that help stable the economy by lowering the overall gold in the economy but then are kittened when you get scammed using a unsecure system. you should get banned as well. your part of the problem if players like you never made these deals there never be any scams

So what you are saying is that i can’t exchange items with my gf or friends in game…or give them mats they need…cause i’m ruining the economy? I should put them up on TP, and then they have to buy them?

If they scammed you they are not really your friends or girl friend.

I don’t think you read that quite right….try reading again…i don’t think i said about scaming anything…but that’s just me..

This is a thread about being scammed as part of non TP trades.

Akagami.9861:

Wintyr.1780:

so let me understand you scammed the system to save on TP costs that help stable the economy by lowering the overall gold in the economy but then are kittened when you get scammed using a unsecure system. you should get banned as well. your part of the problem if players like you never made these deals there never be any scams

So what you are saying is that i can’t exchange items with my gf or friends in game…or give them mats they need…cause i’m ruining the economy? I should put them up on TP, and then they have to buy them?

If they scammed you they are not really your friends or girl friend.

Dante.1763:

Ashen.2907:

Dante.1763:

Almost every single new player to mmos ive ever talked to is afraid to try new content when the game has systems set up to punish them. In GW1, doing dungeon runs on hardmode, it was hard as hell to find a group if you where new to the game. i was glad my guild was willing to help the new players we picked up, as more than one was getting frustrated(and ready to leave) from trying the dungeons.

I am not sure that it is inappropriate for someone who is new to a game to have difficulty finding a group for hardmode play without a guild.

Okay, maybe i should have expanded on that part of it some more. No its not inappropriate for a new player to find groups for hardmode play with out a guild(that is rather normal and how it should be, you are new to the game, shouldnt be doing the hardest content right away anyways).

I meant, “New to hardmode, players” Nobody wanted to let players into their groups no matter how experienced they where unless they had experience in hard mode.

Oh, OK. Reasonable point. I still do believe that this sort of situation is what friends lists and a guild are for. My experience of the DP in GW1 was generally positive, but I can see how it might be bothersome to others.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

borgs.6103:

In my country, we have a saying:
“I don’t like what you said, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

ANet has a saying:
“You signed an agreement, a contact with us, that you would follow the rules or be suspended or banned and we expect you to keep the agreement you signed and quit trying to say you didn’t or that you did sign the agreement but you didn’t really mean it.”

Any financial agreement where one party does not provide the details of what they require of the other party until after they have the other party’s money is questionable.

Even so, Anet’s (and MMO’s in general) ToS requirements are generally pretty reasonable in my opinion.

Dante.1763:

Almost every single new player to mmos ive ever talked to is afraid to try new content when the game has systems set up to punish them. In GW1, doing dungeon runs on hardmode, it was hard as hell to find a group if you where new to the game. i was glad my guild was willing to help the new players we picked up, as more than one was getting frustrated(and ready to leave) from trying the dungeons.

I am not sure that it is inappropriate for someone who is new to a game to have difficulty finding a group for hardmode play without a guild.

Pickles.9436:

Crimson Clouds.4853:

“Even when not specified, NC Interactive, Inc. (“NCsoft”) and ArenaNet, Inc. (“ArenaNet”) have the sole right and final judgment of how to interpret and apply these rules and guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment or exception. "

So, in other words, if somebody at Anet thinks you’re in the wrong, even if it’s not in black and white on the ToS, you can be punished by it.

I can see why its there in the first place, because they can’t possibly list every single offensive thing. When gaile said “excessive swearing is bannable” its only because of this clause they it is deemed as such. saying all the swear words in a line in map chat, not targeting anyone or anything, isn’t said in the ToS as being bannable, but this loop-hole makes it so.

The downside is, whoever is looking at the report, now has that power, and while a majority of people could see something as not offensive, that mod can see it and report it. Then the account holder has to fight to get their account back.

If anything, anet needs to check themselves on being offensive, as I don’t enjoy asura going around calling me a “bookah”.

Some might even find it offensive that a race in a video game are named for members of a current active religion (approximately one billion followers), which is a violation of GW2’s naming convention for players.

Behellagh.1468:

Surprised nobody is screaming NARC for those that report.

I am very glad that they are not.

Calcanius.5048:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Calcanius.5048:

pdavis.8031:

Behellagh.1468:

They can still send you 3000 gold. It’s just you can only withdraw 500g a week in total from mail or a guild bank. Any leftover in the mail stays there until it’s all depleted.

Of course. But recieving 3000g from a seller means it will take 6 weeks to get your funds. Or you could make multiple transactions for smaller amounts. Either way it makes it extremely inconvenient for those buying, which leads to not wanting to deal with the hassle, which means less business for Gold Sellers.

No need to wait 6 weeks, they can just send you some goods so you can list them on tp for a certain price that will get you your purchased amount of gold.
All this change has done is to make is slightly slower for gold sellers to transfer funds to customer, but at the same time made it realy annoying for lots of players since 500 gold is a rather low amount of gold.

So, if someone buys 1000 gold from a gold seller for $X, then that’s what they are going to want to get. Not a bunch of mats to sell that maybe will or maybe will not get the gold you were promised. If someone pays $X and gets mats that sell less than the amount of gold promised, you think they are going to be happy and the gold seller get repeat/referral business? Most people aren’t going to be happy to get mats that do sell for the gold promised because it’s not what they paid for and they were promised to get.

If you buy gold with real money, the last thing you want is whatever crap the goldseller has decided will make up that gold and send it to you to sell. There is no reason to believe they will send quality items to sell when junk will do the same thing.

You still get the amount ordered (1000 gold used in exampel).
Exampel: Mjölnir is currently ordered for 1007 and listed for 1400, so large gav in between.
Gold seller sends Mjölnir to buyer +110 gold and tell buyer to list it for 1100 and then sellers buys it off tp so he gets it back.
Reason for the amounts:
110 gold so seller can pay the listing fee of 55 gold, along with that you loose 10% when item is sold in tax (110), so you end up with getting 935 from tp and still have 55 of the 110 seller mailed to you and you end up with 1000 gold.

(sorry if my math is a bit off i have been drinking

You underestimate the power of laziness.

(some) People will be put off by the, “hassle,” and that is all it will take for the system to have some impact.

Behellagh.1468:

Ashen.2907:

Behellagh.1468:

We aren’t saying it’s all that common. Just occasionally.

The debate here is between those who believe it’s okay to offend because they never are and if you are too bad Vs the follow the rules you agreed to crowd.

Not necessarily.

Of course an actual attack on another (or group) is inappropriate and should be handled appropriately. The issue, for some of us at least, is what constitutes offensive when it comes to a word or phrase. Choosing to take offense at a collection of letters on screen (when they are not directed as an attack against anyone) is not a measure of whether or not the individual typing them is being offensive. If it were then anything that anyone could ever possibly say could be “offensive.”

And ANet in the end is the arbiter of that. All they ask is if you see something, report it and then ANet can make the final determination. If ANet thinks it’s offensive, it’s offensive.

For instance many don’t realize that the word Gyp/Gip is a slur. The group that it’s a slur to is tiny in comparison but a slur is a slur and all slurs should be treated the same. What’s not open to debate is if it’s a slur or not or if you shouldn’t mind if you do find it objectionable because of the “sticks and stones” defense.

And all of this goes back to the effort to make public chat, civil, as civil is defined by ANet.

Exactly. Everyone should report anything that they find offensive and Anet should expend the resources to research each and every one. None of the reports should be actionable because everything is potentially offensive to someone.

Texting short hand, leetspeak, the word “absolutely,” when the intent is not absolute, all offensive. Declaring that a word is a slur when it is not used that way is offensive to me (word meanings change over time-sinister no longer means left handed for example). Every post or comment ever made in game should be reported so that Anet can decide if they are offensive.

To clarify, I do differentiate between harassment/attacks on individuals/groups and using a word that someone else happens to not like.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Then why are you guys trying to push the property owner for more? Isn’t it the property owner’s right to moderate their property way they see fit or should it’s boundaries for leniency be restricted just like a person’s speech?

Because asking for something is very different than declaring that you have the right to decide what is and is not acceptable on someone else’s property.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Why should everyone change because a group of players refuse to use the block tool anet has provided?

Because the owners of the property say so.

yolo swaggins.2570:

@ Everyone attacking 1/3rd of my comment.

I see the purpose of my reply went completely over your heads so let me explain. Regardless of what you think, speech is a right. In terms of “you must respect the rights of others” speech, being a right, should be respected according to that rule. And people will use this right regardless of how loud anyone screams at anet to change it.

Telling anet to outright ban people for saying nothing of context or target fails to show respect of that person’s right.

Now… I still have 2.5 bits that nobody has challenged yet. Feel free to debate with me about that too.

We should probably finish addressing this bit before moving on to the other 2.5.

Speech is not a right on someone else’s property. Never has been. If you go onto someone else’s property they may grant you the privilege of self expression but you bave no inherent right to speech or any other form of communication while there. Period.

If you are on someone else’s property and insist on expressing yourself in a manner disallowed by the property owner they can insist that you cease, alter your expression, or leave. Failure do abide by the property owner’s direction can result in a citation for you.