Guild Wars 2

Valentin.2073:

it’s because of the new heals. PU/phantasm mesmers, MM’s and spirit rangers benefited the most from the new heal skills.

The new Necro heal?

lol.. good one bro. Nice Xmas joke.

draugris.9872:

Cogbyrn.7283:

In this case, are the consumers treating the producers “correctly”? It’s easy to remember the eloquent posts that propose good ideas to developers based on loads of in-game experience. It’s also easy to forget the army of vitriolic garbage that gets posted not only after every single thing a dev says anywhere, but also all the time in general. Relationships are a two-way street, and I’m disinclined to believe the consumers are holding up their end of the bargain as well as they could/should.

Well once upon a time in a galaxy far far away these forums weren´t such a hostile place. The thing is, that there are some great people here which posted in the past good suggestions, reported bugs, gave constructive feedback etc. What they got in return most of the time was silence, getting ignored, when they criticized something they got posts removed, or sometimes jon peters appeared out of nowhere mocking at people. I mean only take a look at some bugs with necromancer skills and how long they exist, it´s ridiculous. You know what, if you treat people with passion that way, the outcome is no wonder. Arenanet get´s exactly the community it deserves. And the solution for them will be, like they do it with the matchups forums, that they will eventually close the profession forums also. That´s the way they solve problems, if they don´t have to read it, problem is fixed.

Pretty much this.

Zero communication and game breaking bugs for months on end… people get fed up.

Atherakhia.4086:

Jaxs.5830:

I think generally ANET has done well with class balance. They make small, frequent balance changes instead of big balance reviews like other games have done. While balance is not perfect and there things they do that make me /facepalm, overall I think classes are pretty balanced and far more balanced than in past games.

1v1 is always going to be cheesed by specific builds, that is the nature of 1v1, but most of this washes out in group+ play. Not all classes bring all the tools for different scales of play, nor should they.

You want to know an easy way to see if a game is balanced? Ask people to rank the classes from most to least valuable at a specific thing (in this case, the current WvW meta). If everyone comes up with the same list, that isn’t the sign of a balanced game.

So lets run that test….

Does anyone disagree with the classes in this order?

Guardian
Warrior
Necromancer
Elementalist
Mesmer
Engineer
Thief
Ranger

Balance is bad enough when the top half of everyone’s list is made up of the same 4 classes. But to have those same 4 classes in the exact same order? Well that’s a sign that ANet’s not even trying…

So lets see what we come up with.

Mesmer should be up the top ahead of the Necro IMO. I play both classes in WvW all the time – the Mesmer more than the Necro these days.

Superior disengage skills and great DPS put it ahead for me. The Necro would maybe get the nod in zerg play where they can rely on Guardians to provide stability and boons, but generally speaking i would pick my Mesmer.

I would go;

Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Engineer
Necromancer
Thief
Ranger
Elementalist

Also, please consider that we are making generalisations about classes here – it may be specific builds that are more overpowered than the actual classes themselves. I think it’s important to make this distinction.

I really don’t think the disparity between classes is all that bad – certainly it needs some more work, but every class can be effective if played well. Some just take more effort than others.

Gee my power Necro gets 50k HPs and stability? Sweet. When’s this getting patched in?

That stability sure would come in handy while I’m being stunlocked to death.

This whole post has to be a troll attempt. Bravo.

Maybe they need to remove the HPs from deathshroud and work on the skills.

Maybe then we could get some assistance in 1vX without PvP whiners complaining that we all have 50,000+ HPs.

scerevisiae.1972:

I play a warrior and even I think it’s ridiculous that the heaviest, highest HP class is also the most mobile.

Same here – Warrior is one of my mains. It’s literally the best at everything… i just run up and attack anyone and if things don’t go my way no problem – just run away with my leaps and bulls rush etc. Healing signet + Mango Pies do the healing while I’m running away so after a bit i can be ready to re-engage again.

Then i hop on my power Necro and get ping-ponged around the battlefield and stun-locked to death by warriors. Good game.

The game as a whole is running poorly and it seems to get progressively worse as the year goes on.

Zoning takes forever and when i do eventually zone all my text boxes, menus and weapon skills are invisible – then it takes another 1 – 2 mins for them to pop up – it never used to be like this.

Gw2 progression = crafting.

This is not remotely enjoyable.

Couldn’t resist – stole from another thread.

The silence from A-net has been deafening for months.

I really don’t care anymore…

That’s pretty ordinary.

A-net are building themselves a pretty bad reputation here… completely ignoring issues, pages and pages of threads without acknowledgement and now this?

Makes you wonder what’s going on.

Disappointed.

Bhawb.7408:

People just do not pay that close of attention, they press WASD in random sequences while rolling their faces over their keyboard until either they die or the enemy dies.

LMAO, this is too much … i’m crying with laughter here haha. What a visual.

Dalanor.5387:

Bhawb.7408:

CursedShaitan.9720:

So 6 days and they are still pretending this didn’t happen? No response no nothing?

And this is a surprise… why?

He doesnt spent enough trait points in the Depression line to unlock the Pessimist GM trait.

LOL, this made me laugh – bravo.

If they nerfed Doom i would be kitten ed… i don’t run staff. It’s the only way i can get people off me for a few seconds.

I’ll never understand why people Alt-F4.

Same goes for running away from a 1v1 before we’ve even engaged each other.

You might win some, you might lose even more, but at least have the sack to have a crack at it – worst case you spend a silver in repairs and finish with a bruised ego.

Aleph Naught.9034:

A necro complaining about condition mesmers, seriously?! It is virtually impossible to beat a competent necro with a condition mesmer. The key word there is competent, though. So thank you for the bags I get when people like you Alt+F4, I guess.

A power Necro mate – big difference between a power Necro and a condition Necro.

As someone who plays both heavily in WvW, Mesmer >>> Necro.

Well played Mesmers are untouchable.

It’s actually a heal skill, not a utility.

To be honest, i think this would make a pretty good utility signet, as opposed to a healing signet.

New idea – move this to a utility slot and give us a new heal.

A nugget of poo in a paper bag would be better than the current heal.

I would change to siphon health when hitting the enemy rather than siphon on hit – in WvW you want to avoid damage, not get hit. There should be no ICD – maybe limit the AoE effectiveness of the siphons.

Active would provide some type of group AoE heal.

Dredlord.8076:

How about the still not fixed heal/util lockout when leaving ds…

Yes, this bug has been in play for months.

Can we get a hotfix like the Mesmer got for Phantasmal Berserker?

Happy pants

Roe.3679:

I was going to make a longer post to reply to some of these responses, but I’ll keep it to this:

- I was talking about WvW pretty specifically. PVE and high level TPvP are not considered in my original post or any others.

- Classes should be able to defend against conditions, and necros altered the meta drastically a while back. It’s not a travesty to have to adjust to other classes instead of them adjusting to us.

I think it’s dumb that Necros took such nerfs because of Dhuumfire and I actually liked things better before (old corrupt boon, putrid mark, etc etc.), but the class is far from useless IMO.

- If you want escapes and mobility, I think Engineers are pretty great at that. I realize that may come off as rude, but the Devs have been very, very clear about Necros not having these things, and have never mentioned otherwise. Stop expecting it.

I agree with this.

I realise A-nets stance on mobility for the Necromancer class is not going to change, so they need to give us better ways to sustain and face tank the damage – even if that sustain comes at the expense of some DPS.

Combat in WvW is heavily in favour of the more mobile classes – Mesmers, Thieves and Warriors.

Roe.3679:

Avigrus.2871:

Roe.3679:

If you don’t think necromancer’s are wildly powerful in WvW then you seriously don’t know the class. I’m surprised to even read that.

I’ll happily stay with my necro. I find the playstyle much more fun than most other classes, and it fits my playstyle very well.

It’s easy to say you’re wildly powerful when you have a class that can spam AOE conditions/wells in a zerg and collect bags like you’re picking up the groceries. I can run out on my power necro and be successful in roaming/zerging as well.

Try fighting when the odds are stacked against you and you’re being ping-ponged around by 2 warriors.

No sustain, very little mobility/disengage but as long as we have condition spam everything will be alright… right guys?

I can jump on pretty much any other class that i have and at least have a decent run at a crappy situation where i’m outnumbered.

The class just needs some re-balancing. Remove some DPS from conditions (stop the PvP whiners) and look at the sustain problems. Another patch blows by us and siphoning is still a joke – A-net must be aware of this… there is no way they can be this ignorant.

Your point is that we can’t beat 2 warriors?

If you want changes to Necros I wouldn’t start with, well we can’t beat 2 of the most powerful class currently. Just because we can’t run away from a fight doesn’t mean the class is all of a sudden worth abandoning from a pvp standpoint.

Also I’m not getting the condescending “try fighting this” or “killing up levels is easy” comments. Ive played Necro in wvw since launch. I’m well aware of what the class is capable of and what the weaknesses are, and they really haven’t changed much other than 6/25, and even that still kept the big points the same.

I was clearly using that as an example of a situation where the odds are stacked against you, not as a whine about warriors.

Trying to highlight the deficiencies that have been with this class since launch – namely, sustain and survivability.

Roe.3679:

If you don’t think necromancer’s are wildly powerful in WvW then you seriously don’t know the class. I’m surprised to even read that.

I’ll happily stay with my necro. I find the playstyle much more fun than most other classes, and it fits my playstyle very well.

It’s easy to say you’re wildly powerful when you have a class that can spam AOE conditions/wells in a zerg and collect bags like you’re picking up the groceries. I can run out on my power necro and be successful in roaming/zerging as well.

Try fighting when the odds are stacked against you and you’re being ping-ponged around by 2 warriors.

No sustain, very little mobility/disengage but as long as we have condition spam everything will be alright… right guys?

I can jump on pretty much any other class that i have and at least have a decent run at a crappy situation where i’m outnumbered.

The class just needs some re-balancing. Remove some DPS from conditions (stop the PvP whiners) and look at the sustain problems. Another patch blows by us and siphoning is still a joke – A-net must be aware of this… there is no way they can be this ignorant.

Already switched to Mesmer / Warrior – it’s great to feel poweful in WvW.

PeterThomas.7243:

Saturn.6591:

Wait; so that means that all the well-known Necros on the forum actually are wrong when they say that even Blood Fiend is way more useful than the new signet? Hmmhmm; nice if it works for you, but looking at the numbers and everything, I heavily tend to share the (apparently at least in the forum) general opinion about the signet.

That’s because most necros use the same cookie-cutter conditionmancing crap.

Try thinking outside the box a little.

I don’t.

The skill is still terrible.

It’s a deathwish in WvW / PvP even if you’re trying to run a full siphoning build – the minute you need to bulk heal you’re stuffed.

Not sure if this is a troll attempt or not.

Good luck – they haven’t bothered with PvE / WvW balance up until this point – i wouldn’t get your hopes up.

I agree with everything in this thread though.

I’ve also abandoned my Necro in PvE / WvW in favour of Mesmer / Warrior.

Leeto.1570:

What to play if im tired of playing super easy necro? Many have told me that necro class takes no skill whatsoever, dont know why this realization came so late. Only after dhuumfire, for first half year of game i was fine playing necro, now you cant go anywhere without flaming
So looking for some pvp alt with spec that takes skill and is top 250 viable.
From all “feedback” i get, seems that elementalist takes the most skill, but do they even have viable builds atm? I havent played ele since s/d valk was king.
So what im looking for:
top PVP viable
Not bunker
Isnt faceroll
Pref power build, heard that condi builds overall takes less skill to play.
Theres loads of people saying i suck for playing necro, must be at least some who can say what to play so i dont suck.

Yeah, try re-speccing to power Necro.. maybe try out a power/siphoning combo.

I realise that when people talk about Necro they imply Condi Spam Necros, but there are other builds available.

Would be awesome if for once we fought servers that we could compete with or even win….. losing week after week after week, well, get’s kinda old.

They should never have gone through with the initial shortbow range nerf.

It was completely uncalled for – the reason they gave was that no one was using longbow, so we’ll destroy the shortbow instead of putting some work into the less utilised weapons – some of the worst balancing in any MMO i’ve ever seen.

I still can’t get over the fact that they did that.

I’ve been running Power Necro / Ranger as my main toons since beta and recently swapped to my Warrior and Mesmer as my dual mains – the difference is astounding.

Warriors just have everything, and Mesmers are impossible to catch if played well.

I wish A-net would pull their fingers out and have a look at some of the classes/builds with issues. Don’t get me wrong, Ranger and Power Necro are fun to play, but also a great deal more difficult than the big-3 of GW2 (Warrior/Mesmer/Guardian).

Speaking from a WvW perspective btw – roaming & teamfights.

I’m getting the same issue here…. this has happened after previous patches.

Just bought this today….

The person who let this into the game should be ashamed of themselves.

It’s a nice concept, but a complete failure in execution..

Another thing i hate – everything is balanced around the worst/best case scenario for this class

They refuse to buff something (or they nerf something) because it has the potential to affect 5 different people in several different ways – everyone knows that their Necro has a better chance of shooting Hayley’s comet out of their own corn holes than these theoretical scenarios occurring, but that’s what we get stuck with on this class.

Lets not forget power Necros suffering nerfs because A-net wants to tone down conditions – that was completely awesome.. more nerfs for desert.

Just another rant…. played my Mesmer tonight.. killed heaps of people without issue.. died once from a fat finger error – and you wonder why Necros complain about defensive issues. Mesmers are untouchable in WvW and Necros are a big damage sponge like Barney the purple dinosaur.

Draehl.2681:

Oozo.7856:

I’m not convinced that the developers have a poor grasp on balance. I actually think they just have a soft spot for trolls and trolling. Stealth mechanics, perplexity, mobility warriors, misting through doors, etc etc.

GW2 is the most troll-friendly game I can think of. Diamond skin is a mechanic designed to troll a specific class and build.

I was going to post something similar to this yesterday, but it came off as too ad-hominem, but I’ll say it anyway. Most of the MMO devs I’ve seen interviews with (GW2 and otherwise) come of as trolls/smartarses who clearly have class/build biases and like abusing rock/paper/scissors design. I get a feeling every dev has their pet classes/builds and acts as a sort of lobbyist for adding buffs/interesting mechanics for their pet build. Does it become a game of inter-office politics where everyone is jockying for very specific buffs, rather than taking a holistic view of the game? This explains why there always seems to be an overpowered class/build. It’s more a case of “who gets their day in the sun” rather than achieving actual balance. Because they don’t want balance.

^ THIS. Just watch the last video and compare the Warrior/Guardian demonstrations to the Necro demonstration.

I’m having the same issue here…

Went to pat the Jagged Horror but he ran away.

Anyone had an issue after patch when you’re dodging / spawning clones and then a jagged horror (from the Necro trait) spawns – it’s name is blue so it’s come from me and not a nearby Necro – this is the second time i’ve had one spawn in 2 days..

It only pops up for about 2-3 seconds.

They can tone down the condition damage if they buff other areas – defence, siphons … whatever.

The power weapons need some re-work, especially Axe.

Necros would be more inclined to run power builds if the weapons were up to par with other professions. I run Axe at the moment, mainly because I play from Australia and have horribad lag and rubber banding, so dagger is out of the question, and Axe is sub-standard in it’s current form.

Axe 1 needs a damage boost, maybe a tertiary condition effect on a third strike of the Axe. T

They need to speed up the Axe 2 chain – it’s so slow in winding up it’s almost impossible to land a full channel in WvW.

Axe 3 is solid.

I just don’t have any faith that the class is heading in the right direction – the changes this month were so lacklustre compared to every other class.

There are so many cool things that can be done with this class. We have the skill delay on exiting deathshroud that has been going on for months – still no fix. Yet when Mesmers had issues with Phantasms they got a special hot-fix.

Playing my Mesmer/Warrior now..

Look – here’s this bug that’s been in existence for months;

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Video-DS-No-Utilities-Bug/first#post3358108

It’s being “tracked”. Which is a nice way of saying it’s not important.

Dear Balance Team,

Can you fix blood magic / siphoning?

How hard does it have to be?

Maybe next patch you can give us an extra 3 hit points per siphon (golly-gosh!)… that will be a massive help when I’m being stunned and hit for 16K by Warrior’s eviscerate.

Relentless.7023:

I propose a toast to the worthless and terrible builds that have become less ridiculous than before on this great day in GW2 PvP balance history

• To you, Hambow Warrior slayer of all with your puddles of slobber and rotten cheese. Your damage has been reduced and your Elementalist rivals of old have come for you ready to challenge your previous place as the masters of the side node

• To you, Sword Dagger thief, the imaculate troll build of all troll builds. May your legion of average players find far more challenging days in the months ahead. In anticipation of their new, demanding days ahead they have run away from their class like scared rats! Let them run!

• To you, Condi Necro whose nonexistent direct damage will not pierce the Diamond Skin of the glorious Elementalist who will have his righteous vengeance. May you discover how to play with skill in a future that demands both direct and condition damage

• To you, No Stun Break Condi Engis, whose vigor uptime was the only thing keeping you alive outside of your AoE spam and blinds and who now must consider their mortality far more than previously. May you reconsider your greedy ways and build more conservatively!

• To you, Spirit Ranger, whose thunderous spirit will no longer severely punish those near you with lower armor rating, and who will have to earn their duels against the Diamond Skin Elementalist who will enjoy destroying your embarassing existence

• To you, Condi Mesmers and Warriors, making mockeries of classes whose true glory lies in the risk and reward of bringing the burst, as you attempt to stack a few conditions on Berserker Stance, Diamond Skin, and Mesmers with stronger condition removal

• To you, Perma Stealth thieves, the truest definition of coward this game has seen. Your infusion of failure is dead and so will you if you try to run that terrible build in the hallowed grounds of TPvP again!

Let this day of December 10th be a new day – the dawn of the skilled and intelligent winning while the weak and spineless builds of the past die the shameful deaths they have long deserved!

I bet you’re one super awesome dude, who runs 0 cheese and always fights with honour… wait you’re a thief…. lol

Sweet – look forward to watching you play!

Move to the Necro forum, where no Dev visits ever.

Sweep it under the carpet and hope it goes away.

Every class can run/neutralize condition builds…

I have no issue dealing with it on any of my classes (Mesmer is probably the worst, but still capable) – bring condition clears if you want to deal with it.

Sirendor.1394:

Any class at all if you are a decent player ‘AND’ have a build made for movement.

• Thief, stealth and away (50% extra movement, swiftness on dodge, infiltrator’s arrow, shadowstep)
• Mesmers: similar to thief
• Warrior: gs °3 & °5, swiftness on elite, swiftness on warhorn, leap on sword
• Guardian: Judge’s Intervention, retreat, greatsword n°3 leap, sword n°2 shadowstep
• Necromancer: swiftness on warhorn (cripple enemies), spectral walk, death shroud for extra tanking, signet of locust (25% movement)
• Elementalist: fiery greatsword: n°3 and n°4; staff n°4 air, dagger n°4 air, swiftness on heal while in air, signet giving extra movement speed too.
• Engineer: perma swiftness through kits, has stealth on elixir S (f1-f3), can stealth using smoke bomb + a blast.
• Ranger: don’t know, haven’t played at level 80.

Necro is by far the worst at getting outta dodge.

Mesmer/Warrior/Thief – these are the top dogs – my Mesmer can pretty much escape anything if i don’t stuff up… so many dodges, blinks, stealths etc

My ranger kicks kitten in WvW – duels, 1vsX and zerg

Gaiyeerishima Cat.1082:

You guys are ignoring the fact that it is a healing skill which provides damage.

What are you going to do when you get stun-locked and are on 10% health with no heal?

Trust me, this will not be good news…

I would prefer not to receive sigils/runes from blues/greens – waste of space in my bag and only sell for a few copper.

Gaiyeerishima Cat.1082:

And no, I am not trolling.

You’re not trolling?

The heal hasn’t been released yet – how is it your favourite?

Lordrosicky.5813:

Zenith.7301:

Balefire.7592:

Zenith.7301:

The concept of a heal that requires getting hit is just dumb. If anything, it should have been necromancers who got that warrior heal as “vampirism”.

You mean the Guardian heal, right? Because Guardians healing on hit makes total sense.

No, the warrior heal, which absorbs damage into health.

Stx.4857:

The original version was very promising. It had a high risk vs. reward aspect to it.. with setup/strategy required to make the most of it, and easy counters built into it.

If it were something like.. 150 health stolen from enemies that hit you(with no internal cool down) passive, and an active that lasted 5 seconds with no ICD that leeched about 500 HP per hit, on a 20 sec cd… I could see that being not only useful in group PvE, but also a very balanced heal in PvP that forces both the Necro and his opponent to use skillful play to use/counter it.

This heal had potential and I was really looking forward to using it in a Blood siphoning build.

Sadly, its current state is so terrible that I doubt anyone will even try it. Max 5200 HP on 35 sec cd lol… with a passive that heals less per second than Healing signet and also requires the necro to constantly be under attack. What a joke.

Nobody will run anything other than consume conditions because necro condi removal is heavily pigeonholed. You got putrid mark, and you got dagger offhand. That’s about it. Both weapons usually for condi sets.

Without consume conditions you’ll die miserably to burning and poison spam.

Yeh. They should buff the “Lose a condi when you go into death shroud” to “You lose 2 condis when you go into death shroud” as a first step. This is the biggest problem. The players know where the huge flaws in the classes are. But the developers dont really. SO we just get boring traits like on the necro. I really dont get how they havent fixed death magic minor traits yet to make that trait like viable outside of minion builds. And I dont understand why they havent buffed traits like the remove a condi when you go into death shroud or heal when you go into death shroud…they want to buff support. Well of blood is an awesome support skill but then you just die to ranger auto attack without consume conditions.

I also dont understand why things like spiteful marks aren’t integrated into reduced cooldown on marks. And then we can get more coherent traits. Then the minion traits are all over the place (3 lines). And the well traits are all over the place. The spectral traits are in different lines. The corruption trait should be an adept trait. Rather than nerfing weakening shroud they should of moved it to master and put the corruption one at adept.

It is really hard to make build when they put all the traits all over the place. It was like they randomly assigned the traits to different lines. They really need to communicate with necromancers who have the knowledge that they lack on the traits. We have spent hours and hours trying to create new builds only to be frustrated by things like death magic 15 minor trait and the staff traits being in 3 different lines (mark on dodge, spiteful marks, staff mastery and greater marks). I mean none of those traits are good. You would think those 4 traits should instead be 2 traits. But for them to all suck, then to constantly nerf staff marks (staff 4 is now bad, staff 2 is going to be bad) on a weapon set which is only taken for utility (a condi necro will never spend much time in staff if they can help it) doesnt help build diversity.

Boom. Couldn’t have said it better.

Been running my Warrior and Mesmer recently and it’s night and day difference with the trait design.

It’s a shame that Arena net isn’t concerned with this class. That new healing signet sounds horrible… i keep thinking about the devs running through that heal skill and the Guardian heal skill… what a difference.

Not everyone wants to be a Dhummfire Condibomber.

Righteous.4307:

Just going to leave this here…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXDXeVoWclc

OMG, that was legendary… some spikes. Don’t spend them all at once!!!

Hahahaha

Runes of the traveller – i use on 4 of my toons. Awesome stuff.