Yeah and the siphons are small enough so that it shouldn’t be overpowered… remember traiting into blood magic will mean giving up another line of traits – soul reaping or spite etc. I think it would be a reasonable change.
I don’t think all the self healing skills should work in deathshroud.. a minion master is already a pain in the backside with its health generation. I would say the minor ones would be fine like heal on hit and well siphons as a start
I would agree with this. Start small and then adjust accordingly.
Make one or two of the basic siphons work in deathshroud and then evaluate how this is next patch and adjustments can be made.
I would rather have had the axe #2 skill sped up considerably even if it received a damage nerf.
99% of the time you are never going to land a full chain in WvW – been running axe/power build forever and getting a full chain to land is like haley’s comet passing the earth..
I use traveller runes, that way i can run 3 skills – well of corruption, well of suffering and spectral armour…. only way to go imo. I run traveller runes on every toon i have except warrior where i run strength runes (he gets the +25% with melee weapons anyway).
I think a lot of us are upset because they were touting this as helping our utilities and sustains. All they did was add 1 sec to a useless heal that no one uses and reduced the cooldown of one utility skill. They added a mindless DS add to the mechanic that could potentially hurt the player, as most necros would rather die and come back with a full lifeforce bar than nothing because it was computer activated when we didn’t want it to be (good thing this add was on a GM hardly any one uses). Sure we got cleave on a dagger and a few axe animation speed ups, but most other professions got this and more. And now we can do all the things in DS that everyone else can without using their core mechanic…something we should have been able to do from the start. Still can’t be healed in DS though.
Basically they were playing at knowing what to do with this profession and in the end, they did nothing. Will it help? Sure, but buffing all the other professions while hardly touching this one hurts. It seems like this go around, they were trying to work with WvW/tPvP and since Necros excel at WvW…we got the short end of the stick.
Maybe if the devs didn’t start out with buzz words and lies, it would sting less. I know I shouldn’t have had my hopes but…but one can dream.
Yeah, i remember a few patches back they were hyping the blood magic / siphon changes – then the changes arrived and they were absolutely pathetic. Necros need to have zero expectations.
Its hard to really want to leave feedback for the devs to go off of lately because it just feels as if all patches are constantly trying to reinforce the theme of necromancer as being a No mobility or boon oriented class that can dish out many conditions while removing boons themselves… But right now, there is less and less reason to play said class because the ‘theme’ they are going for is a bad idea. It feels like that even though they learned from warrior how bad making an extremely telegraphed class with very little condition fighting mechanics are, they constantly get it wrong with Necromancer.
The class is not looking for damage. Yes, axe needed damage but outside that, damage across the class WAS solid (hard to say as damage on condi is slowly getting reduced every patch). the problem is its utility, durability and ability to recover. Cleave was a big problem for necromancer, but while it was added to the dagger, it feels as if it was just given because the same was done to thief dagger as no other utility was given. Necromancer may be ‘offensive’, but not giving them ways to help the team in forms of usable non-utility blast finishers, Fields or buff auras makes the approach hard to understand as this did not benefit PvE like Predator’s Onslaught did for ranger.
Not only this, but the skill that was keeping powermancer in the meta has now had its duration gutted by 33% without a redistribution of power across the actual build itself. This means that variety will probably be seen less amongst the class in TPvP. With no buffs to blood magic, Its pretty much just MM and Terrormancer staying relevant IF there was no changes to other classes. (hard to say where they stand with newly buffed guards and mesmers)
That only leaves WvW as pretty much the last bastion for Necromancer at this point it terms of variety of play. The only reason this is relevant is how Death shroud scales with deaths giving them literally sustain as they snowball. . . Because thats what death shroud is. A snowball mechanic of sorts. Its not like Elementalist heals where you can play from behind.
Overall, the class needed a good deal this patch. Not only to ensure balance but to give OUR class counterplay against the daze, stun, and knockdown filled game that we play in similar to how Warrior’s theme was changed to make them more viable across the game. Instead all we got was something that makes many of us question if our feedback is ever heard in something labeled a ‘feature patch’. Or not even bother to question and move on.
You will simply not convince anyone out of the select 12 of you who keep arguing for it.
That’s a pretty bold assertion, that all but 12 people would agree with this proposal.
For all you know the wider population may not have a problem with this – again, there are only about 2 or 3 people in this thread arguing against this… so we could flip that around the other way, couldn’t we?
I think a few people still have a sprinkle of hatred toward the Necro class which has been left over from the Dhummfire days…
Also, it’s only true weakness is not just against crowd control, but poor mobility and the lack of escape options as well.
I don’t give a kitten how strong you think you are, you can not do maneuvers which would be near impossible due to armor constraints. Heavy armor provided great protection for knights but at the cost of being slower and less maneuverable than a lighter armored opponent. What, do you think if you put an olympic high jumper in a full suit of plate mail armor he could still high jump?
Now I am not saying I agree with the OP completely but your argument is flawed.
Olympic high jumpers don’t train to jump wearing armour.
On the other hand, if someone specifically trained to do so, you would be surprised at what they could achieve. However, there is no practicality for it in modern times.
Most knights were average Joes, they lacked significant food to eat (both quantity and quality), they did not have sports science in those days, and had out-dated smithing techniques and medicine/technology in general. So comparing many hundreds of years ago with what people could achieve today is silly, simply from a technological standpoint.
I also doubt they would of trained specifically to run and jump around, considering they’d be training to stay in formation and utilise group composition. However if they DID train to run/jump around, who knows what they could of achieved.
Warriors don’t need to be built for mobility to still be faster than most classes. Any warrior with a a sword and an off-hand war horn can outrun most other classes.
Sure:
- If the necromancer doesn’t use Shroud #2 (shadow step),
/raises an eyebrow
In all honesty, DS #2 is unreliable. Easily evaded by these warriors. Take a step to the right and it’s evaded.
/two cents on that
Agree – it’s not a shadowstep. I wish it was… would be great to have a viable disengage on my 2 Necros
It’s an ultra-slow moving projectile that gets blocked by blades of grass or any uneven pathing. The hit rate on this skill is not good… unless the person is right in front of you, you’re probably in for an “obstructed” message.
I wouldn’t have an issue with this – I think Necros need reliable stability on a utility given the prevalence of hard CC spam in this game.
During the last week I recently switched across to my condition Necro for some WvW, with no points in Soul Reaping (as opposed to my Power Necro with 30 points), and it is amazing how quickly life force drains while in deathshroud – you blink and it’s gone.
Having played a power Necro for so long i didn’t think it was this bad for condition Necros.
A warrior built for mobility has terrible damage output, terrible group support, and terrible everything EXCEPT mobility. If you get killed by one, you weren’t playing well enough, because it is one if the worst builds for combat EVER.
(insert the 500 other reasons from other threads that even the OP posted in and knows off by heart)
By the way, it makes perfect sense for the athlete to outrun a bookworm. Fantasy broken my buttocks. The fantasy would be broken if the bookworm outran the athlete.
/thread
/thread? really?
My sword/shield / longbow warrior with bulls charge would disagree with you – i can fly across the battlefield, tank enormous amounts of damage and destroy multiple opponents.
I thought we were getting a flesh/risen shark for water combat… not sure what happened to that idea – i would like a flesh shark for underwater combat. Having only 1 underwater elite kinda sucks.
The #2 channel needs to be sped up… i don’t think I’ve ever hit a full channel in WvW because it is so slow and so easy to dodge/mitigate.
It’s great against PvE / Stationary targets, but it’s just too slow for WvW/PvP. You might hit a high number on the channel, but it takes so long to finish your effective DPS probably isn’t all that great by the end of it.
The #1 skill is just plain weak and needs to be buffed somehow.
The #3 skill is reasonable enough… they could maybe add a small siphon or something? I dunno.
I don’t use dagger on my power Necro, so this is all that I’m left with… they should fix it or give us a new ranged power weapon. I would say this is one of the worst weapons in the game… even though i run with it every day.
I don’t have all the answers, but i think A-net should take a look at this weapon and look to make some modest improvements.
Dunno, i’ve just moved across from my Necro to my Ranger and i’m loving it… the AOE is lacking somewhat, but the range and DPS on the longbow, combined with the greatsword and some of the pet utilities is great.
I think they could merge a couple of the longbow traits so ranger could get piercing as well as the 1500 range – this would make the class the perfect sniper. I would love it if A-net could make this change!!!!
It’s a massive pain now, even harder with the introduction of the mega server.
So many events that were open in the past are now completed… doing 5 events just takes to long. Spot an event on the map, by the time you get there it has been completed… rinse and repeat again.
Spots where we could previously rez NPCs have people swarming all over them and its a pain finding NPCs to rez around the world.
There has been no benefit to the changes that they made… it doesn’t matter if some people still find the daily easy, reducing the options available was a terrible idea.
People will just come on this forum and argue with any point just because they like to stir things up…
Yes, happening in WvW at random times – my internet is running perfectly, yet i keep getting disconnected from this game… not worth playing it with these issues.
I work on a keep for 20 mins and then get to the cap and disconnect before i get credit… a@4$#$#
I don’t have any issues with condition classes in WvW … on any of my classes really…
People get so angry when they die to conditions…. probably the same feeling i get with stealth spam thieves or warriors with unmatchable mobility running away from every fight.
Before the Dhummfire patch there were no issues with conditions….?
It should be something used tactically, not just spammed every few seconds to get free heals, condition removals etc and the ability to re-position and re-a_sse_ss the situation.
Have you implemented a new zone reset policy that changes all the nodes once a day and often more than once a day.
It’s started changing every night for Straights of Devastation, Malchor’s Leap, Cursed Shore and others.
It’s making any sort of regular farming unnecessarily difficult.
I invite you to change your policy if you’re using this to make farming too hard to bother, thereby driving gem sales.
I mapped out the Malchor’s Leap run today (which was a massive pain and was done post-new build), ran 2 characters through it and on my third effort the map has completely changed and I’m not in an overflow zone – now I’m back to square one – all my efforts down the drain.
I’m full zerker with bloodlust and i’ve never got anywhere near 20K in WvW - not saying it can’t be done.
Generally, i’ll wet my pants with excitement if i can hit 10K.
I don’t have the guard offensive buffs yet, but i have applied fortitude.
My life blast does good damage - 3-4k on high toughness players and 5-7k on lower toughness players. Up-levels i can do a bit more damage - so funny cutting an up-levelled thief in half.
No might no vuln about 80% of the time I use it, it breaks 10k on any target, about the lowest I see is 8k and that only really happens if I get very unlucky with crits.
What targets, and where? It doesn’t hit that hard for me, and I’ve been running full berserkers. The only time I ever see it break 10k is with 25 might stacks while in a party.
Yeah, in WvW you rarely hit for that much – maybe on an uplevel. Certainly nowhere near 20K. Maybe average 4 – 7K.
Most of the time you can’t even land the full chain because people dodge, block etc.
Regardless of the numbers involved, this trait represents a willingness by ANet to consider the possibility of granting HP regeneration mechanics while in DS.
Seems like a giant step forward to me, even if it seems mathematically lackluster at the moment.
Precisely. We’re pretty sure the trait will be quite underwhelming, but what the introduction of the trait means is important: ANet is considering letting the necro heal some in death shroud, which is by far the biggest weakness of the mechanic.
This. Consider it a test to show them that letting Necros heal at all in DS does not automatically make them unstoppable eaters of children and small cute woodland creatures.
Now if Necros were given Warrior level sustain, condi removal, and mobility while in DS they might have a case for their fears.
But there is a huge difference between that and what is basically a regen boon tied to a resource pool instead of spammed on recharge.
To be fair, the DS mechanic in general makes me an eater of all small, cute woodland creatures I see. If I could kill NPC children to gain LF as well, I mean… wouldn’t you?
Yes, this is a nasty habit necros have…
Yeah, before entering WvW every trip back from the waypoint i can be seen slaughtering rabbits, badgers and other furry creatures.
From a WvW perspective, the mobility should be toned down a bit – it’s ridiculous at the moment. On my warrior i have 3 leap/mobility moves that i can use to get away from pretty much anything – it’s just cheesy as hell. The class is already incredibly strong in WvW.
I vote for this… it’s pathetic that they just run from every situation and there is nothing to stop it.
Was a Silver General Warrior tonight in EB that just ran away from one on one fights the minute i did damage to him – it’s absolutely pathetic. Twirling and whirling like a kittening ballerina.
Pah, play another class if you don’t get Necros. I am excited as hell about this upcoming patch.
I was excited as hell when they announced the buffs to the Blood Magic trait line….
Wait…
Omg, you mean Anet didn’t give you exactly what you wanted? Such a shame. I always forget that players obviously know how to design and balance a game way more than game devs.
All you ingenious players ought to make your own broken game and stop cluttering forums with this qq nonsense.
Me on the otherhand, can’t wait to play a DS bunker Necro! :-)
Necromancer: Unholy Sanctuary
In addition to a bit of a trait line rework, the necromancer’s Death Magic will be gaining the ability to heal your health pool while Death Shroud is active. Unholy Sanctuary allows you to turtle in your Death Shroud and slowly heal yourself, granting you additional survivability in situations that might otherwise spell certain death. The healing rate of Unholy Sanctuary is the same as the regeneration boon and will be affected by healing power.
Let the wild speculation and maybe even a little rejoicing begin!
Sorry, can’t rejoice over this. It will be a Grandmaster Trait in the Death Magic line. So, to obtain the sustain that is supposed to be a hallmark of the class (LOL)
The net effect will be to do nothing but extend by a couple seconds/one or two additional hits our already delayed yet inevitable death at the hands of focus fire and CC spam. The min/maxing armchair theory crafting aside, the trait will still fail to deliver the sustain and attrition this class needs. It’s another missed opportunity and failure à la Signet of Vampirism.
Contrast this with thieves’ new Invigorating Precission whereby 5% of their critical attack damage will be returned as healing. One of the hardest hitting, fastest hitting professions with one of the best de facto attrition mechanics (stealth) now gets 5% of their DPS returned to them as health. You thought there was QQ-ing before about thieves, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet. GG ArenaNet!
That trait would have been more appropriate for the Blood Magic line’s Vampiric Precision, for example. Instead, we get healing equivalent to a regen buff while in Death Shroud (a resource-dependent profession mechanic versus the thieves’ new always-on heal-on-crit) IF we spend 30 points in Death Magic.
To rub a little more salt into the wound, thieves’ Invigorating Precision is in their Critical Strikes line; the line that improves their critical hit chance so they can…you know…gain health on crit. Contrast this with Unholy Sanctuary; a trait that benefits from healing power in the toughness and boon duration line!
The devs are totally clueless when it comes to the necromancer’s attrition and sustain. You could throw darts at a board to which is pinned all of the necro’s traits and come up with better balance and synergy than these guys.
Whoo-Hooo! Let the rejoicing begin.
Great post dude. Seriously good post.
This is my view from a PvP perspective also. The trait is useless. Regeneration is kind of bad on its own. Healing for 70 /second isn’t going to do much against 7k pistol whips or 5k arching arrows, or just condition spam.
It is totally worthless as a trait. Seen as they are destroying condi necro at the next patch then we should get some proper sustain finally. It is stupid we get no dodges, no blocks, no invulns, no stealth, no nothing. We are the ultimate glass cannon even when we try to spec tanky. We either kill or get killed. Which isn’t how necromancer should play out given its lack of mobility. We should have incredible sustain.
The condi necro in pvp without dhuumfire will be the worst class in game. They have already added/buffed many traits (immunities) and skills (immunities and condi cleanse) on MANY classes which are condition hate. As a profession we are pigeon-holed into the condition role and so this is a massive nerf to us. In addition they have attacked our bleeds, our terror damage, our weakness uptime and many other things. And now they are essentially removing burning from condition specs. So where does this leave us? Not in a good place unfortunately. And our hopes lie in two areas:
1, A serious buff to sustain – relolving around the death magic line – we already see a GM trait which doesn’t help at all
2, A good curses GM trait – this is vital to the future of condi necro
This GM trait should be a 5 point minor trait in the DM line. That is how weak it is.
Pretty much this.
A kittening regen buff as a GM trait… it is laughable.
Maybe there’s never a good solution because the foundational design is flawed.
^ This. They really need to spend some time re-working the class.
Buff the survivability, buff the group utility, whatever… but thief stealth is currently the worst iteration of stealth that I’ve experienced in any MMO I’ve played. Of course, poorly skilled stealth spam thieves will defend this mechanikittenil they are blue in the face.
