Guild Wars 2

There should be an option by going to the story step she left off on in the journal.

I did mesmer when I first played the games years ago. This time around I went with Elementalist. The game is fairly easy to do solo. I’d suggest getting all of the campaigns and expansion as you’ll get access to heroes and they’re all fun to play.

If you’re not too high of a level right now, I suggest at re-doing Ele in Factions. I believe I got to level 18 or so by the time I got off the starter island. There’s a quest you can repeated over and over to finish up the rest of the levels in minimal time spent.

Test.8734:

It’s cute when people think that business is like kids playing in the park. Those numbers come from NCSoft’s quarterly reports, which list GW2’s earnings (rather obviously in full, not only the sales of the game itself). Given how NCSoft is a publicly traded company, they can’t hide their numbers; and it’s very much laughable to think that they would hide their profits, anyway, when showing results to their investors.

GW2’s earnings are just that. It’s already taking in consideration gem sales, game sales and everything else you would like to mention. Yes, the game is earning less than a MMORPG released in 1998. No, there is no way to call it other than a failure. And you can go see by yourself, the numbers are freely available.

What you do not realize is that sales from China do not hit NCSOFT directly. From what I read, the Chinese company is doing all of the sales and NCSOFT gets royalties. Royalties are not reported as sales or at least not for GW2. They’re likely reported as other income or something of the like. You’d notice that GW2 sales didn’t increase at all when it was released in China which leads you to believe that it’s not part of the GW2 sales. I suggest that rather than blindly posting graphs and articles, you look into what they mean.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2enwcc/kdb_daewoo_securities_current_forecast_for_ncsoft/

Test.8734:

VOLKON.1290:

It’s not like ANet didn’t go an extended period of time before announcing numbers here in the U.S. either. Some 3.8 million sales out of the gate in China isn’t exactly a failure.

The numbers are fake.

In truth, GW2 underperformed.

In fact, GW2’s failure has been reiterated, even.

Soon the server merges began.

Meanwhile, GW2’s profits kep falling, despite the China release.

F-A-I-L-U-R-E.

I wonder if your “ten new professions” (LOOOOOOOOOOL) will be enough to make HoT a success. Otherwise, the future wouldn’t exactly be bright for ArenaNet.

Last link is for sales and it’s expected for sales to decline after initial release. Also, as far as I was aware, Anet wasn’t selling GW2 in China directly. This would not show up in that chart.

I have been using Rata Sum since April 2013.

Vix.6730:

Test.8734:

Lucky.4263:

What makes HoT worth $50?

Nothing.

Keep in mind ArenaNet has seeing declining profits, and that they invested a lot in the China release, which was a failure. They’re now releasing an overpriced expansion in order to make up for the money they have lost, but this is clearly a move to help them, not for the benefit of their players.

This is a good point. I was surprised to hear about the China release go up in flames as quickly as it did. Clearly the expansion is priced $20 too high. Anet feels that by squeezing an extra $20 out of players they can recoup their losses. What they haven’t considered is the resistance players have been showing.

Has it been reported somewhere that they have losses or did you mean reduced profits?

pickpocket.2071:

people say we have had tons of updates over 3years but in reality very little has been added, no spvp modes, few minor w3 tweaks, no dungeons, some fluff living world grind fest and world bosses where u spam 11111. This game is made for 13yr olds and its lost my support

The story pieces of the living story releases have been the equivalent of what you’d expect to see in an expansion. After playing through all of Guild Wars, I’ve seen about the same story content from either of the expansions as I had with both seasons of the Living Story.

The grind with the LS is the same that you saw in GW1 for titles. We actually got a new sPvP mode but it was limited to a single map. There were no new dungeons but we did get fractals plus the temporary dungeons (although those hot converted to fractals).

ScribeTheMad.7614:

I was just wondering this today, as I have two names I’d like to reserve.
So one now another later, what about the rest of the stuff, mini, gems etc?

The other stuff you get once you’ve relogged.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

Development costs are not the same. Do you really believe that development costs for Diablo 2 were the same as Diablo 3? How about Super Mario Bros to Super Mario World? Or Daggerfall to Morrowind? If you do then I’m shocked. If you don’t then how could you think that they would be the same between GW1 and GW2 core game/expansion? Higher costs tend to translate to higher prices.

Prices for games has not gone up in general since 2005. Nor has size gone down.
Ffxi cost 15 a month and had 40 dollar expansions 10 years ago. Ffxiv costs the same thing right now, and its very profitable.
Dark souls i cost 60 and dark souls 2 cost 60. Street fighter games costed 50 in the 90s and cost the same today.

Point is game prices have not inflated and game content has not deflated. So using that as an excuse is a fallacy

I wasn’t arguing about the price level of the industry. I picked those games to show that production costs would be different between sequels as they’re more involved and general larger in scale. Dark Souls vs Dark Souls was only a 3 year gap compared to like 9 with Guild Wars. High costs tend to result in high prices unless they can minimize this through other ways such as economies of scale or additional revenue from sources beyond the game’s sale.

Production costs effecting prices is not an accurate defense if, for the industry as a whole, it has not effected prices.
Dark souls was one example.
Final fantasy 11 and final fantasy 14 was another. They are 10 years apart.

Production costs are not the reason for the chosen price. The monetization policy they have profits even if they sold it at cost. This is simply the number the marketing dept came up with that they think people are willing to pay.

They just think the market is willing to bear this price. The only real question is do the consumers agree.

Yeah. Production costs are but a factor and not the sole cause.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Ayrilana.1396:

Gw2 was $60 and not $50. You don’t know how big/small HoT will be..

HOT is $60 bucks as well. So you are paying exactly the same.

And no we don’t know how big HOT will be. But we do know:

-It will be smaller than the core game, and thus shouldn’t cost the same.
-It’s a small expansion, not a full standalone expansion like in GW1.

Ayrilana.1396:

EotN and HoT are priced similar to their base games.

EotN was NOT priced similar to it’s core game. It was a lot cheaper than Prophecies.

You’re purposely inflating the cost for the extra character slot which comes free with pre-purchases. EotN was priced similar as I showed by showing the percentage of the original’s cost.

Prepurchase bonuses are irrelevant to the actual product. They are special offers in exchange for buying a product which does not exist yet

No more and no less as that additional cost for a character slot is on the basis that someone has used up their existing character slots.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

Development costs are not the same. Do you really believe that development costs for Diablo 2 were the same as Diablo 3? How about Super Mario Bros to Super Mario World? Or Daggerfall to Morrowind? If you do then I’m shocked. If you don’t then how could you think that they would be the same between GW1 and GW2 core game/expansion? Higher costs tend to translate to higher prices.

Prices for games has not gone up in general since 2005. Nor has size gone down.
Ffxi cost 15 a month and had 40 dollar expansions 10 years ago. Ffxiv costs the same thing right now, and its very profitable.
Dark souls i cost 60 and dark souls 2 cost 60. Street fighter games costed 50 in the 90s and cost the same today.

Point is game prices have not inflated and game content has not deflated. So using that as an excuse is a fallacy

I wasn’t arguing about the price level of the industry. I picked those games to show that production costs would be different between sequels as they’re more involved and general larger in scale. Dark Souls vs Dark Souls was only a 3 year gap compared to like 9 with Guild Wars. High costs tend to result in high prices unless they can minimize this through other ways such as economies of scale or additional revenue from sources beyond the game’s sale.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Ayrilana.1396:

Gw2 was $60 and not $50. You don’t know how big/small HoT will be..

HOT is $60 bucks as well. So you are paying exactly the same.

And no we don’t know how big HOT will be. But we do know:

-It will be smaller than the core game, and thus shouldn’t cost the same.
-It’s a small expansion, not a full standalone expansion like in GW1.

Ayrilana.1396:

EotN and HoT are priced similar to their base games.

EotN was NOT priced similar to it’s core game. It was a lot cheaper than Prophecies.

You’re purposely inflating the cost for the extra character slot which comes free with pre-purchases. EotN was priced similar as I showed by showing the percentage of the original’s cost.

The HoT editions also come with a lot of great things. Some may not care for just as some may not care for the stuff in the Nightfall CE. Some of the items from that edition could have been gotten for free.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Ayrilana.1396:

So you paid $50 for Nightfall which is smaller than Prophecies?

Yes, but that was the special edition, which also included dozens of goodies. The actual base expansion was cheaper.

Ayrilana.1396:

You paid the price of the original game.

For a special edition of a stand alone game.

Ayrilana.1396:

EotN was like $35 which contained even less content.

Which WAS an expansion, and was priced accordingly.

Ayrilana.1396:

EotN was easily less than half the content of Prophecies.

And was thus priced at much less than Prophecies. But you are paying the same price for HOT as for GW2. See the problem? You pay the price of a full game, and get a small expansion. They never did this with GW1. The price was based on the size of the expansion/region.

Gw2 was $60 and not $50. You don’t know how big/small HoT will be. EotN and HoT are priced similar to their base games.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Ayrilana.1396:

$60. How much was GW1 on release? $50.

So in other words, development costs have not changed that much at all.
And also, you are clearly paying the same price for a small expansion, as you did for the full game.

This looks like they are tricking us into paying for the same game twice.

So you paid $50 for Nightfall which is smaller than Prophecies? You paid the price of the original game. EotN was like $35 which contained even less content. You paid 70% of the price of the Prophicies compared to HoT which is 83%. Not to mention EotN was easily less than half the content of Prophecies.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Ayrilana.1396:

Development costs are not the same. Do you really believe that development costs for Diablo 2 were the same as Diablo 3? How about Super Mario Bros to Super Mario World? Or Daggerfall to Morrowind? If you do then I’m shocked. If you don’t then how could you think that they would be the same between GW1 and GW2 core game/expansion? Higher costs tend to translate to higher prices.

Oh really? How much was GW2 on release?

$60. How much was GW1 on release? $50.

Development costs are not the same. Do you really believe that development costs for Diablo 2 were the same as Diablo 3? How about Super Mario Bros to Super Mario World? Or Daggerfall to Morrowind? If you do then I’m shocked. If you don’t then how could you think that they would be the same between GW1 and GW2 core game/expansion? Higher costs tend to translate to higher prices.

When I did it, there wasn’t a constant knock down. He’d knock me down once if while channelling the fire but I’d always have enough time to do it again.

I should also point out that Anet has not fixed the random porting when relogging. I was at the end of the JP, went to heart of the mists, came back, relogged, and was moved to the north WP.

scerevisiae.1972:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’m not being cheated and the product does exist although it’s not complete. It’s no different than any pre-order.

lol you have been cheated – you’ve paid full price for a product that doesn’t even exist yet — it doesn’t even yet have a release date…

name another industry anywhere where you pay the full price upfront of a product/service based on minimal information and without a release date.

not to mention this is a very lightweight expansion with the highest price i’ve yet to see in gaming.

You may want to look up the definition of cheated. Paying a price for something ahead of time is not being cheated. I’ve seen games, music, books, and movies that you can pre-order but have no release dates. You also cannot base what you have seen so far as to whether the expansion will be lightweight as you call it.

scerevisiae.1972:

Ayrilana.1396:

ODB.6891:

scerevisiae.1972:

Those initial 8 classes and 5 character slots came with the original game. I already paid for those. The expac comes with a single, new class, which is not possible to play for most existing players without deleting one of their existing characters.

Once again, this is like buying a new car and the salesman not giving you any wheels on the second car because your first car already came with wheels.

This ^ for all the white knights to read and more importantly, comprehend! It can’t be stated any more clearly or logically than this. HoT is a separate purchase from the original GW2 game, which we did already pay for. Those 8 classes and 5 character slots were bought and paid for a long time ago…they have absolutely nothing to do with this current purchase. Stop trying to refer back to a previous purchase, to try to excuse what they are cheating us on, in this current expected purchase. For this price, this should be a functional product right out of the “box”. The car example fits perfectly. The product you buy should be fully functional, no matter who the buyer is. Whether you bought a previous product from them or not, you should still be able to fully utilize this new product without having to buy extra from them. It is exactly like expecting someone to buy a new car and not including enough wheels to drive it…just because they bought a previous car. ANET needs to make a choice, either this is an expansion (lower the price and omit the character slot) or this is a full product (include full product benefits).

You’re not being cheated. Players made the choice to use up the five character slots that came with the core game. They then had to purchase additional slots to play the remaining classes. There’s no reason that the expansion was required to come with an additional character slot because of a new class. This argument is kind of moot now that all veterans who pre-purchase the game get an additional character slot.

The car example fails for reasons that I had already stated. Examples of not getting the keys/tires for the car would apply to the core game and not the expansion. The car and the core game are the same with an expansion being an extension of that.

I could use a dozen other analogies to keep proving you wrong but it still wouldn’t change the core point, which is that, by itself, the whole of the expansion is not playable by itself without spending additional money, deleting an existing character and using a character slot i’ve already paid for, or paying for a non-existent product and doing Anet’s QA for them for free.

IMO this is shady business practise and shows Anet doesn’t think very highly of its customer base. It’s only that gamers tend to be young & naive in a business sense that they don’t realise they’re being blantantly ripped off; in the real world, a company that tried to sell products whose basic functionality required hidden extra costs would be subject to unfair trading claims in this jurisdiction in which i live.

I’m sure you can make up a dozen analogies. If they’re anything like your previous ones then they’d all be incorrectly applied to the situation. Please do not argue about business sense and what happens in the real world because you do not understand it. If Anet is such a shady company, why do you continue to support them by playing the game and having a presence on the forums?

You need projectile attacks in order to damage it until they eventually fix it. The hit box is too high for melee attacks to hit and AoE attacks are not reliable enough to do much damage during the burn phases.

Probably end of July or early August.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cheeky Wizard.7496:

To Ayrilana.1396,

No offence intended, but after reading your repeated same view on this subject you not only sound like a high pressure sales person but I firmly believe you will pay any price for any product offered whilst under the opinion that it is an exclusive offer.

If you are a high pressure sales person are you on commission here?

If not it must be nice to have a never ending banking supply.

Either way, allow other peoples opinions to be read and not bullied by your same pressured replies, over, and over, and over, and over again.

Kind regards,

Cheeky

I personally feel that it’s worth the price which is why I purchased it. The extras that were available for the various editions were what I used to determine which edition that I bought.

The intent is not to bully people. I’ve intentionally tried to make sure that when it comes to making the purchase or not, I don’t force them to go one way or another. The only reasons that I have posted here is to clear of the confusion that the core game is included in the price of the expansion (which it is not) and the difference between value and cost including how they are not easily comparable between games.

There is no expansion for sale. Since no one has ever sold, or intends to sell the product alone, it is not for sale.

There is one product called gw2 heart of thornes. It is essentially the new version of gw2 and it has one price.

The fact that these items cannot be sold seperately means it deceptive to say you are getting one free.
It eould be like me selling a picture of man walking down the street and claiming im selling a picture of a man, and giving you a picture of a street free.
Its not accurate, its one picture. The price given is obviously for both since you cannot buy them seperately

It’s a free bonus for all new accounts. Whether you can buy the core game separately or not still doesn’t change that. If you absolutely want to think of there being only one product then you can think of it being that only the expansion is sold. All new accounts get the core game as a free bonus while existing accounts get the expansion which they had paid for. The cost of the core game is not factored into the price of the expansion.

Maybe I missed something but where did Anet state that you would not being killing Mordremoth in the expansion? Was it during one of the POI’s?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re not being cheated. Players made the choice to use up the five character slots that came with the core game. They then had to purchase additional slots to play the remaining classes. There’s no reason that the expansion was required to come with an additional character slot because of a new class.

This argument is kind of moot now that all veterans who pre-purchase the game get an additional character slot.

You are still being cheated. They are trying to force you to buy a product that doesn’t exist yet, for the price of a full game while you know it will be just an expansion. And you only get the free character slot if you pre-purchase, and otherwise you don’t.

Many people WILL need the extra character slot, so that raises the price from $50 to $60 to anyone that doesn’t pre-purchase.

Ask yourself, is $60 a reasonable price for an expansion? Many of the defenders assume that everyone should pre-purchase! Boy, I bet Anet really loves you all! That is exactly what they want! But what if you do not want to pre-purchase? What if you want to wait till the product is done, and perhaps wait for the reviews, and see if you like what you hear?

Perhaps you are one of those rare people that does not buy games on impulse? Do you get a free character slot? NO! It’s $60 bucks for you!

I’m not being cheated and the product does exist although it’s not complete. It’s no different than any pre-order. Most people would fall under the pre-purchase umbrella anyway as they would have purchased the game ahead of time in order to play it once the servers updated to allow access. How many veteran players pre-ordered GW2? Surely they must have been cheated as the game didn’t exist at that time…

Yes, it does raise the price to those that want to play revenant, don’t have any remaining character slots, and choose not to pre-purchase. Also keep in mind that the pre-purchase ends once the expansion is released so you have until then to purchase the expansion. Players will usually have as much information as possible by then to make an informed decision as to whether the expansion is worth the cost. It’s no different than GW2 or any other game for that matter.

Based on what I have seen so far, I decided it was worth the $50. Many other people felt the same way and pre-purchased the game too. If people want to wait until after release to purchase the expansion then they’ll going to have to spend the extra $10 for the character slot if they don’t have any open ones. The thing is that Anet has announced well in advanced about this so those players have ample time to decide before then.

I don’t buy games on impulse. In fact, I rarely buy them anymore and only stick with certain series of games. Pre-purchasing a game is not the same as buying on impulse. Buying on impulse would be purchasing the expansion without any thought into it. Some players likely did buy on impulse while others knew or decided right after it was announced that they would buy it.

Hashar.6082:

Ayrilana.1396:

The expansion would still sell for $50 whether you choose to believe it or not. They do take a slight loss in potential revenues they would have made from selling the core game separately

So you actually do believe that any significant number of new players would have bought the core game and the expansion if they were priced separately and amounted to $75 total? Because I certainly don’t. Some would, sure. The majority is much more likely to wait for a sale or skip the game entirely.

Some may wait for a sale and some may not. It’s impossible for either of us to be sure. What I do know is that those that actually have an interest in the game would have purchased it. More so when there is an actual sale which is how things tend to work. The point of the post that you quotes (well you only quoted part of it) was to dispute your claim that nobody would buy it. I also wanted to point out that the newer players would still get a better deal than veterans as they got both for $75 compared to the $110 that they paid.

Cheeky Wizard.7496:

To Ayrilana.1396,

No offence intended, but after reading your repeated same view on this subject you not only sound like a high pressure sales person but I firmly believe you will pay any price for any product offered whilst under the opinion that it is an exclusive offer.

If you are a high pressure sales person are you on commission here?

If not it must be nice to have a never ending banking supply.

Either way, allow other peoples opinions to be read and not bullied by your same pressured replies, over, and over, and over, and over again.

Kind regards,

Cheeky

I personally feel that it’s worth the price which is why I purchased it. The extras that were available for the various editions were what I used to determine which edition that I bought.

The intent is not to bully people. I’ve intentionally tried to make sure that when it comes to making the purchase or not, I don’t force them to go one way or another. The only reasons that I have posted here is to clear of the confusion that the core game is included in the price of the expansion (which it is not) and the difference between value and cost including how they are not easily comparable between games.

Cheeky Wizard.7496:

Ayrilana.1396 wrote,

You may want to read the article about the guild halls again because they are not forgetting about smaller guilds.

Cheeky says,

I’ve read it again but perhaps you would like to enlighten us as to how small guilds can capture their guild hall with just a couple of players. I can’t wait to read your interpretation of that as you seem to have glanced over the main points in my original post. Perhaps Ayrilana.1396 you would take the time to read them again.

Many thanks.

Oh, that. They haven’t decided on what the cut off is yet but you can enlist the help of others to help clear the guild hall in order to claim it. Whether two guilds can clear the same guild hall at the same time and both get credit hasn’t been addressed or I haven’t seen the response yet.

ODB.6891:

Ayrilana.1396:

…

If the pre-purchase window really is until launch, then I’ll go along, but I definitely have an issue with a blind pre-purchase like it currently is. So it is not a moot point just yet. I still think its a slimy move to have the ability to play one of the few major features of the new game/expansion…blocked by an additional pay wall or a blind purchase…but that may be resolved if they eventually reveal content worth paying $50 for before the pre-purchase period ends. I’m going to have to agree to disagree with you on the character slot until this reveal.

Yeah, you have until it’s released. That’s why I’ve been telling people who are not satisfied with what they see to wait until later. I know if I personally didn’t believe that the expansion was worth it at the moment, I’d be waiting until more info was released that could change that. And I do agree that we’ll likely never agree at the moment as to whether the game is worth the $50 purchase price as this is entirely subjective. Hopefully they release enough info in the future to persuade all those on the fence that this is worth the buy.

Zero Day.2594:

Ayrilana.1396:

Zero Day.2594:

I don’t get how this is a Question type thread….

It is as they’re asking if the expansion is worth the $50 which in the end is really up for them to decide.

I always thought that Question based threads needed some sort of factual answer to a question, not really an opinion….

Like (silly question but) “How do you port to a town using the world map?” – “Answer double click on the way-point you want to travel (looks like so and so)”

Or like:
“When is the HoT release date?”
Answer: “No one knows…”.

Oh, I see what you mean.

Zero Day.2594:

I don’t get how this is a Question type thread….

It is as they’re asking if the expansion is worth the $50 which in the end is really up for them to decide.

ODB.6891:

Again….references back to a product we already paid for are invalid. Yes, I chose to fully utilize what I already paid for. I would also choose to fully utilize this new product that happens to be at the same price as that previous product. The issue is that I cannot fully utilize this new product in its current form…unless I give them my money in advance (with no release date, no reasonable listing of included content, etc). Again, yes the car example does apply. In fact, you can substitute any other product you expect to work out of the box in the car example’s place. Any other example that you pay the identical price as you paid for the previous version of that same product. This example is the same whether you think of it as not including any wheels, any seats, or missing even the steering wheel. They are selling an incomplete product that does not fully function unless you buy more from them…and they are selling it at the same price as they sold the previous…fully functional product. If they want us to consider it as an expansion…essentially as an add on to the previous purchase…then it needs to be at an add on price.

No. The references are valid when trying to prove a point. The expansion is also not the same price as what veterans paid for when the game was originally released. It’s not a requirement for an expansion that releases a new class to come with an additional character slot. I brought up the core game because those that wanted to play all classes that came with it had to purchase additional character slots. I know that I had to in order to play every single class.

The car example isn’t valid. The car can’t be the expansion because the car is functional on its own whereas the expansion is not. The car would have to be the core game. Even if you were to twist it around like you’re trying and assume that the car is the same as the expansion, it would not work. The wheels and keys are required for the car to function. The expansion still functions without the additional class.

ODB.6891:

Clearly this is not a moot point…as you and some others try to dismiss this as. This is a disrespectful and greedy move by ANET. They are disrespecting the intelligence of their existing players to expect them to not see this…although apparently there are some existing players who are easy marks. I’ve walked away from several companies…to never do business with them again…for less than this. I think many existing players will likely follow this pattern if ANET continues this. It isn’t really even about the money….its about respect and honesty.

It is still a moot point as veteran players who pre-purchase the expansion get a free character slot. Everyone has until the day before the release to do the pre-purchase. If they do not plan on buying it by then they very likely would not be buying it immediately once it’s been launched.

Test.8734:

Ayrilana.1396:

Whether HoT contains only a fraction of the content of the core game is irrelevant. For one thing, no expansion that I have heard of contained more content than its core game.

And no expansion that I have heard of had the same price of its core game. We can clearly see there is something wrong with HoT, and it’s not only how it lacks content.

For one thing, GW2 was released for $60 so you’re not being charged the same price for the expansion as the core game. As I said before, you base the price based on the value that you perceive on all of the content available with the expansion. If the value that you get is worth the price tag, then buy it. Comparisons are misleading as value is not really associated with price which is why I brought up the Skyrim example. GW2 has the same re-playability as Skyrim if not more.

Lucky.4263:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lucky.4263:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lucky.4263:

So since HoT is just about the same price as GW2 base game when it released what i want to ask is, is it worth $50.00
, i got a full lvling exp from 1-80 as well as some kool story, on top of countless interesting (not all but most) quest.. i logged about 500hrs of gameplay before hitting my limit bout a year ago. in the base game..

What makes HoT worth $50?, becuz if im not getting the same exp as before thats a rip off for real.. a new class, some class revamp stuff (which should have been there before, i shouldnt have to pay becuz you changed your mind on how you want the classes to work) and some 15-20ish hours of story if its even that much.

Whether the expansion is worth it is something everyone should consider. A lot of people, including myself, have already decided that it is. More information will be released between now and when it’s released so hopefully more people who are on the fence will decide for themselves that it’s worth it.

Don’t be fooled by confusing cost with value. How many people bought both Skyrim and GW2 upon their initial releases for $60? Which provided for value to you? I can honestly say that I got more out of GW2 than I did Skyrim. Should GW2 have been priced higher because of that or Skyrim placed lower? Value itself is also very subjective as well.

while you do make a point and i agree i got way more out of gw2 base game then skyrim and enjoyed it very much… but there is a such thing as pricing things above their value.. if HoT expansion has a fraction of the content of gw2 base game for the same price, you can see where my arguement is.. whether its enjoyable or not is not the issue here..

Yes there is such a thing as pricing a game above their value which I though my post had addressed. It’s up to the players to determine if the current cost of the expansion is worth it. That’s not decision that I, nor anyone else, can make for them.

Whether HoT contains only a fraction of the content of the core game is irrelevant. For one thing, no expansion that I have heard of contained more content than its core game. I brought up Skyrim to show that value is not necessarily tied to price. If that was actually true then one of the games was not priced correctly.

Whether you purchase the expansion or not is not about a comparison (check list) with what you got out of the core game or what other expansions provide. It’s about the value that you get from the expansion itself and whether you personally feel that it’s worth the price that is currently being charged for it.

No mmo i have heard of has charged its player base a full games price for the fraction of its content and yest this is relevant… letts not forget returning players must also buy the living story pack which is $20 (or some odd amount of hours grinding for gold) to be up to date on the story which so far seems to be anets selling point. which also brings me to another Q: why not add “the living story” to the $49.99 instead of the base game?

While i did get more enjoyment out of gw2,, skyrims price was justified by its content and replayablity.

For one thing, GW2 was released for $60 so you’re not being charged the same price for the expansion as the core game. As I said before, you base the price based on the value that you perceive on all of the content available with the expansion. If the value that you get is worth the price tag, then buy it. Comparisons are misleading as value is not really associated with price which is why I brought up the Skyrim example. GW2 has the same re-playability as Skyrim if not more.

Hashar.6082:

Ayrilana.1396:

The expansion was going to cost $50 regardless as to whether the expansion was included or not.

Thing is, they would never sell it to the new players if that was indeed the cost of the expansion alone, core game not included.
So no, it was not going to cost $50 regardless of whether the original GW2 was included or not. Bundling them together is the only possible way to do so, and it is also the only possible way to get $50 from a veteran who does not wish to buy the ultimate edition.

New players would buy it. You can think of it as another way as people seem to bring up costs that they paid for. We paid $60 for the base game. New players would have been paying $75 for the base game and expansion if the expansion was not included free to new accounts. That’s $35 less than the cost that veterans would have to pay. They’d still be getting more value for their money spent than veterans.

The expansion would still sell for $50 whether you choose to believe it or not. They do take a slight loss in potential revenues they would have made from selling the core game separately but they do this by gaining increased sales of the expansion (which includes the core game for free to new accounts) from new players and also potential increases in gem store sales from these same players.

ODB.6891:

scerevisiae.1972:

Ayrilana.1396:

scerevisiae.1972:

Kharlus.3612:

Where is written in stone that everybody is looking for extra slots?!

The expac comes with a new class. It’s one of the few things we actually know for sure that will actually be in the (rather under-contented & overpriced) expansion.

It seems perfectly reasonable to expect that everything needed to enjoy the content of the expansion actually comes with the expansion, right? In the same way when you buy a new car, you expect to be able to drive it.

Therefore, everyone who buys the expac, should get a character slot included, no further questions or qualifications required.

Your car scenario is not the same as here and does not apply. An expansion containing a new class does not mean that it must come with an expansion slot no more than a game is required to come with as many character slots as there are classes. You made the choice to use up your allotted character slots that came with the game.

There are character slots available for purchase. You may also take advantage of the pre-purchase bonus or purchase either of the two packages beyond standard to get this additional character slot. If you choose to not take up any of those options then that is your own choice.

Those initial 8 classes and 5 character slots came with the original game. I already paid for those. The expac comes with a single, new class, which is not possible to play for most existing players without deleting one of their existing characters.

Once again, this is like buying a new car and the salesman not giving you any wheels on the second car because your first car already came with wheels.

This ^ for all the white knights to read and more importantly, comprehend! It can’t be stated any more clearly or logically than this. HoT is a separate purchase from the original GW2 game, which we did already pay for. Those 8 classes and 5 character slots were bought and paid for a long time ago…they have absolutely nothing to do with this current purchase. Stop trying to refer back to a previous purchase, to try to excuse what they are cheating us on, in this current expected purchase. For this price, this should be a functional product right out of the “box”. The car example fits perfectly. The product you buy should be fully functional, no matter who the buyer is. Whether you bought a previous product from them or not, you should still be able to fully utilize this new product without having to buy extra from them. It is exactly like expecting someone to buy a new car and not including enough wheels to drive it…just because they bought a previous car. ANET needs to make a choice, either this is an expansion (lower the price and omit the character slot) or this is a full product (include full product benefits).

You’re not being cheated. Players made the choice to use up the five character slots that came with the core game. They then had to purchase additional slots to play the remaining classes. There’s no reason that the expansion was required to come with an additional character slot because of a new class. This argument is kind of moot now that all veterans who pre-purchase the game get an additional character slot.

The car example fails for reasons that I had already stated. Examples of not getting the keys/tires for the car would apply to the core game and not the expansion. The car and the core game are the same with an expansion being an extension of that.

Lucky.4263:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lucky.4263:

So since HoT is just about the same price as GW2 base game when it released what i want to ask is, is it worth $50.00
, i got a full lvling exp from 1-80 as well as some kool story, on top of countless interesting (not all but most) quest.. i logged about 500hrs of gameplay before hitting my limit bout a year ago. in the base game..

What makes HoT worth $50?, becuz if im not getting the same exp as before thats a rip off for real.. a new class, some class revamp stuff (which should have been there before, i shouldnt have to pay becuz you changed your mind on how you want the classes to work) and some 15-20ish hours of story if its even that much.

Whether the expansion is worth it is something everyone should consider. A lot of people, including myself, have already decided that it is. More information will be released between now and when it’s released so hopefully more people who are on the fence will decide for themselves that it’s worth it.

Don’t be fooled by confusing cost with value. How many people bought both Skyrim and GW2 upon their initial releases for $60? Which provided for value to you? I can honestly say that I got more out of GW2 than I did Skyrim. Should GW2 have been priced higher because of that or Skyrim placed lower? Value itself is also very subjective as well.

while you do make a point and i agree i got way more out of gw2 base game then skyrim and enjoyed it very much… but there is a such thing as pricing things above their value.. if HoT expansion has a fraction of the content of gw2 base game for the same price, you can see where my arguement is.. whether its enjoyable or not is not the issue here..

Yes there is such a thing as pricing a game above their value which I though my post had addressed. It’s up to the players to determine if the current cost of the expansion is worth it. That’s not decision that I, nor anyone else, can make for them.

Whether HoT contains only a fraction of the content of the core game is irrelevant. For one thing, no expansion that I have heard of contained more content than its core game. I brought up Skyrim to show that value is not necessarily tied to price. If that was actually true then one of the games was not priced correctly.

Whether you purchase the expansion or not is not about a comparison (check list) with what you got out of the core game or what other expansions provide. It’s about the value that you get from the expansion itself and whether you personally feel that it’s worth the price that is currently being charged for it.

Kharlus.3612:

This free core game is a reply from Anet, after – I repeat, after the community tell how bad this business model is.

No, it was not. If people had read the tooltip of the editions, they would have seen the same thing that Anet stated in a post later on. The core game was always a free bonus for new accounts when purchasing the expansion.

Kharlus.3612:

The refund for buyers after january is again a reply after this controversy.

Yes. The refund was due to a misunderstanding with the FAQS page which may have misled some players to purchase the game not knowing that the expansion would have provided a bonus for new accounts had they waited a few more months.

Kharlus.3612:

There’s no free core game… this cost is being charged from the huge veteran playerbase, since we are paying the game twice. And as for we know, there’s going to be a third time and so on…

The core game is free for new accounts that purchase the expansion and it is not being subsidized by existing players. The expansion was going to cost $50 regardless as to whether the expansion was included or not.

Kharlus.3612:

Most of all, it´s not how MUCH… it’s HOW Anet is charging us. This is simply taking us for granted! It’s wrong to charge a cent twice for the same package. Obviously, no one is obligated to buy it. Who feels fine with it, ok, no problem at all. I won’t criticise the ones buying it. I’m complaining about this behaviour from Anet.

Some people do have issues with how much the expansion costs. As I said above, you’re not buying the core game twice.

Lucky.4263:

So since HoT is just about the same price as GW2 base game when it released what i want to ask is, is it worth $50.00
, i got a full lvling exp from 1-80 as well as some kool story, on top of countless interesting (not all but most) quest.. i logged about 500hrs of gameplay before hitting my limit bout a year ago. in the base game..

What makes HoT worth $50?, becuz if im not getting the same exp as before thats a rip off for real.. a new class, some class revamp stuff (which should have been there before, i shouldnt have to pay becuz you changed your mind on how you want the classes to work) and some 15-20ish hours of story if its even that much.

Whether the expansion is worth it is something everyone should consider. A lot of people, including myself, have already decided that it is. More information will be released between now and when it’s released so hopefully more people who are on the fence will decide for themselves that it’s worth it.

Don’t be fooled by confusing cost with value. How many people bought both Skyrim and GW2 upon their initial releases for $60? Which provided for value to you? I can honestly say that I got more out of GW2 than I did Skyrim. Should GW2 have been priced higher because of that or Skyrim placed lower? Value itself is also very subjective as well.

Blebekblebek.4780:

Ayrilana.1396:

Once again, I strongly suggest you re-read those articles. It’s not the same situation as I have already stated. It’s even more surprising as you linked an article that pretty much showed what the issue was. There was exclusive content included in the collector’s edition which actually required players to purchase the base game again in order to get. The base game was actually factored into the price of that collector’s edition. This is not the same with GW2 as the core game is not even part of the HoT price.

of course not the same
not in my book, it’s worse

This is expansion, not just some content that most people will/can ignore and still having same experience to whoever bought that content.
How is that good for us?

It being worse is your opinion however that still doesn’t change the fact that the situation with Destiny’s expansion is entirely different than for GW2’s expansion.

fallacy.8024:

The fact that the base game is included means your purchase includes a useless account. Paying money for something which includes useless stuff is never okay.

Except you’re not paying for the base game. Nobody is unless they purchase it from a retailer who is selling the core game only.

Afya.5842:

I finished all the living story once on my main. Now I’m trying to do the achievements (the purple wp). Can I do the achievements on my alt that never did any living story? Or do I have to do the (green) story again on my alt?

An alt will only get credit for achievements in an episode if they have already completed that episode.

Blebekblebek.4780:

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re not buying an extra copy of the game. It’s a free bonus when the key is applied to a new account. Many companies provide bonuses specifically to new accounts or customers. It’s nothing new. You also should read the article more closely as the situation that occurred for Destiny is different than what’s occurred for GW2.

I’ve already mention that
what so new about this? well this is new because no one in their right mind would do something like this and get free pass, not even bungie

The expansion included core game and there’s no other way to get it, period.
you don’t need to sugarcoat this, you can spin the word all you like.

it doesn’t matter which version is free according to each individual
is the base game free or the expansion the point is the pack cost the same for new and old player who already bought the game the same case about similar like destiny was, and the good part about destiny they admit, yes they admit it was A%%hat decision

Their response is exactly like you
and you know what, here comes his response later

However, most of you don’t know me.

Reading my interview with Eurogamer and imagining it came from some random developer of a game I love – that random developer looks like an A%%hat.

But that A%%hat was me – and those words rightfully anger you.

I’m sorry

and nope, I’m not making this up
here: https://www.bungie.net/7_Bungie-Weekly-Update--06242015/en/News/News?aid=13090

Once again, I strongly suggest you re-read those articles. It’s not the same situation as I have already stated. It’s even more surprising as you linked an article that pretty much showed what the issue was. There was exclusive content included in the collector’s edition which actually required players to purchase the base game again in order to get. The base game was actually factored into the price of that collector’s edition. This is not the same with GW2 as the core game is not even part of the HoT price.

Seth Moonshadow.2710:

Ayrilana, as I said “Official” maps, implying that we have only been shown or given little information on maps. It is very possible more maps are included and they have not released that information. Thus far unless you know otherwise I believe Verdant Brink and the Guild Halls have been the only stated maps!? Other than the WvW & PvP maps.

Biomes /= Maps. They’ve stated that there will be more than just Verdant Brink and its biomes. It’d be a little ridiculous to have shown us, and allowed us to play, 1/3 of the maps in the expansion.

The entire episode from start of finish.

Cruz De Leon.7201:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cruz De Leon.7201:

Duke Nukem.6783:

thats what a LIVING world is, i didnt get to experience the fall of rome in real life but the italian government has repeatedly ignored my letters suggesting that they invade europe

But the living world season two should give option to new player to introduce with “them” (kasmeer/braham/rox) and should not call us “boss” on first meet. if u know what i mean.

When you start a book or TV series in the middle of a series, are the readers/viewers given a recap of who everyone is? What they should do is write a recap that can be viewed within game of the events that occurred during Season 1.

That was bad example. Of course we can flip back to the first page and read again and we still can replay again TV siries if we want right?. well still viewer/reader can know and experience from the beginning. i bet u may say the same like us if u in our shoe

Read what the poster was arguing for and that I was posting about. I’m all for a re-release of an instanced version of Season 1 or at least some in-game summary for players that did not get to experience it.

Cheeky Wizard.7496:

ANGEL BLAZE.2537:

Please let me know what happens to my GW2 if i am unable to afford expansion pack but wish to carry on playing GW2

I can’t believe that this expansion is pricing players out of the game. This game is truly becoming an art for elitists. Not just in price but in in- game politics too.

My heart simply saddens the more I learn about Heart of Thorns, as these thorns have truly scratched this gaming community. This will become a thorn in everyone’s side.

If a player couldn’t afford the expansion then chances are that they wouldn’t have been able to afford an MMO than charges a monthly subscription.

scerevisiae.1972:

Ayrilana.1396:

scerevisiae.1972:

Kharlus.3612:

Where is written in stone that everybody is looking for extra slots?!

The expac comes with a new class. It’s one of the few things we actually know for sure that will actually be in the (rather under-contented & overpriced) expansion.

It seems perfectly reasonable to expect that everything needed to enjoy the content of the expansion actually comes with the expansion, right? In the same way when you buy a new car, you expect to be able to drive it.

Therefore, everyone who buys the expac, should get a character slot included, no further questions or qualifications required.

Your car scenario is not the same as here and does not apply. An expansion containing a new class does not mean that it must come with an expansion slot no more than a game is required to come with as many character slots as there are classes. You made the choice to use up your allotted character slots that came with the game.

There are character slots available for purchase. You may also take advantage of the pre-purchase bonus or purchase either of the two packages beyond standard to get this additional character slot. If you choose to not take up any of those options then that is your own choice.

Those initial 8 classes and 5 character slots came with the original game. I already paid for those. The expac comes with a single, new class, which is not possible to play for most existing players without deleting one of their existing characters.

Once again, this is like buying a new car and the salesman not giving you any wheels on the second car because your first car already came with wheels.

No. Once again, it is not like buying a new car. Your example of a new car would only apply if you were buying a new game entirely which you’re not. This is just an expansion of the existing game. An expansion with new a new class does not need to provide additional character slots. Pre-purchasing the expansion will get you an extra character slot which you can do this up to the day before it launches. You can also buy the editions above standard and get another character slot on top of that. For the majority of players, this is a non-issue as they will have already pre-purchased the game in anticipation to play the expansion on Day One.

Cheeky Wizard.7496:

Why pre-order something you already have bought. We all have the core game, right? So I’ve decided to vote with my money! And here are my reasons,

I) Too expensive for an expansion in an age of austerity. There should have been just an expansion price – end of. New players could still have bought the core game separately.

2) Once again small guilds have not been considered. Our guild doesn’t even have enough players for guild missions and so on. So it’s just another kick in the teeth for small fun guilds and we’ve simply had enough of putting every effort into influence with very little return..

3) Pre-ordering before an announced live start date is like giving away £35/$50 into the heart of the mists. You know it’s coming but no one has no idea when. That is money that could be earning ME interest and not somebody else.

4) Is it actually worth it? I am wondering if this expansion will be about the same size if not smaller than Eye Of The North (GW1) ? If it is, then that will be very disappointing and a lot of players will be feeling down and depressed for the money paid. Not want you want to feel when a game is supposed to be fun.

5) Will I enjoy it? From what I hear from others – I don’t think so.

Mind you after listing my reasons for not pre-ordering, I am beginning to ask myself if I should bother with this expansion at all.

You’re not buying the core game again. It’s just a free bonus for new accounts. Many companies provide benefits to new customers. It’s nothing new. You may want to read the article about the guild halls again because they are not forgetting about smaller guilds.

Kitsune.1902:

I’m not about to read every post on this by now gigantic thread, much less to memorize every one of them. I feel the argument stands sufficiently against the post I quoted, and it’s honestly not very important anyway. If $50 were just plain value of the expansion, then it seems a significant portion of potential customers is feeling it’s overpriced.. and mostly just the people who perceive it as the price of the combined expansion + original game are fairly satisfied with it.

Incidentally, if I counted the value of base game to $20 where it seems to be at present – outside significant sale prior to it being phased out of selection – then the remaining $30 would coincidentally be pretty close to what I personally expected from HoT price tag. What comes to the pre-purchase bonus character slot, it’s temporary offer that was basically absolute minimum necessary to avoid a disaster. It doesn’t enter the equitation if you want to purchase the expansion in normal way after it’s official release – at which point you can expect more in-depth reviews. If it was really meant as unconditional ‘veteran bonus’, it wouldn’t be limited to pre-launch time – just as the core + HoT deal isn’t.

You can also look at it from another perspective – there’s no way the expansion could have been priced at $50 unless it was bundled into base game. The cost for new players would have become prohibitive at that point. Basically I believe that game + expansion had to be $50 or less, and so bundling them up and leaving the expansion-only option away was the only way to draw the full $50 out of players with existing account. For the new players the price would have not gone past that even if they were sold separately – it would simply have meant lowering the price of the expansion.

And this, in my opinion leads to the same conclusion, the price for existing accounts is padded due to the bundled deal – or rather, it’s the only model that makes it possible in the first place.

Value and cost are not the same thing.

Cheeky Wizard.7496:

Have 2 prices for the expansion!!!!

1 ) If you already own a copy of Guild Wars 2 and want the expansion – An Expansion pack for a reasonable price like with Eye Of The North on Guild wars 1.

2 ) For those joining the game at Heart Of The Thorns – The full price as that will include the core game.

Why should we pay for something we have already bought. Unless this becomes fairer, players will vote with their money and not bother either with this expansion or any other in the future !

Simples.

You’re not paying for something that you already bought. The price of the expansion is $50 regardless as they could remove the free bonus for new players and it would still be $50.

Blebekblebek.4780:

So… here we are getting what Destiny would do but in the end retract it.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-06-22-destiny-the-taken-king-director-defends-40-expansion-price-tag

I don’t see how this need to be defended.
Yes they choose this way

but it doesn’t mean it’s okay.

just give us separate option to purchase DLC, simple
but ofcourse, I don’t see that or at least they are not interested to do that.

I’m actually surprised they would go this far to do this after far too long.

The expansion included core game and there’s no other way to get it, period.
you don’t need to sugarcoat this, you can spin the word all you like.

it is a fact that we have to buy extra base copy to get the expansion pack.
and to whoever already bought the game before doesn’t need it.

again, why not just add the option, -$10/20 less.
everyone happy.

You’re not buying an extra copy of the game. It’s a free bonus when the key is applied to a new account. Many companies provide bonuses specifically to new accounts or customers. It’s nothing new. You also should read the article more closely as the situation that occurred for Destiny is different than what’s occurred for GW2.

scerevisiae.1972:

Squeesidhe.4761:

$50 is WAY overpriced for the features I’ve seen listed so far. And the special editions ($99??) are just insulting.

I feel like I’ve stuck with you through a lot of fumbling, sloppiness and amateur-hour design decisions, and my reward it to get nickle-and-dimed on the first major new content release?

The pre-order bonus is a title and the opportunity to help you beta test? Wow, generous!

You know, there’s a LOT of competition out there these days. Just sayin’.

This. The problem is all these new players who’ll blindly pay anything without any concrete expac details at all, and then are the first ones to cry about lack of content a month after expac release.

The only thing pre-ordering does is guarantee you get less for your money, because by purchasing, you’re telling Anet that you’re happy to get almost nothing (which is what’s been actually announced and shown) for $50+.

You’re also telling Anet you’re happy to pay them to QA unfinished/buggy content for them.

New players who purchase the game will not be crying about a lack of content as they will have the entire core game on top of whatever is included in the expansion. This also includes any content given through the living story once it resumes again. To them the core game and expansion will be one continuous game.

People are free to purchase whatever they may like. If you don’t feel that the expansion has any value then you do not have to purchase it. Do not tell people how they should spend their money whether it be directly or indirectly. Not everything has been released about the expansion and not everything needs to be released about the expansion. If the current available information is not enough for you then wait, since as you said, pre-purchasing is just guaranteeing less for your money. Don’t do it then but don’t tell people what they should or should not do.

How do you know it will be unfinished and buggy? All games have bugs and HoT will definitely not be an exception.

scerevisiae.1972:

Kharlus.3612:

Where is written in stone that everybody is looking for extra slots?!

The expac comes with a new class. It’s one of the few things we actually know for sure that will actually be in the (rather under-contented & overpriced) expansion.

It seems perfectly reasonable to expect that everything needed to enjoy the content of the expansion actually comes with the expansion, right? In the same way when you buy a new car, you expect to be able to drive it.

Therefore, everyone who buys the expac, should get a character slot included, no further questions or qualifications required.

Your car scenario is not the same as here and does not apply. An expansion containing a new class does not mean that it must come with an expansion slot no more than a game is required to come with as many character slots as there are classes. You made the choice to use up your allotted character slots that came with the game.

There are character slots available for purchase. You may also take advantage of the pre-purchase bonus or purchase either of the two packages beyond standard to get this additional character slot. If you choose to not take up any of those options then that is your own choice.

So for those that are upset that Anet isn’t balancing classes to your liking:

How would you balance them? Since you say they’re not balanced then you should know how to fix them.