I guess the spreadsheet doesn’t work on my phone rather than there being an error.
Anyhow, did you include the opportunity cost when trying to find the break even? The profit you could have made by selling the bronze ingots (irregardless as to the speed that they sell) cannot be included in the profit that you make per skill point as that’s profit that you could have made without it. You’re also not including the profit you make with the differences between making bronze ingots and what it would cost to buy them off the TP.
Essentially what you’re trying to do is calculated the added value that using a skill point would bring.
The two people who actually want to complete the event could just as easily move to another server instance rather than troll the farmers.
So how do you do that? There’s no drop down as in GW that allows one to choose another shard. If you’re going to present a workaround, present the whole workaround.
Go to character select screen. Select a different server and guest to it. Now log back in. Make sure not to be in a party with anyone who is still on that shard.
We regularly do this to find dungeons that are unlocked so we don’t have to do pre-events.
Thanks, Calyx, on behalf of myself and any others who didn’t know how that worked.
It doesn’t. When i used to do the t6 node farm in Orr and other maps, guesting had zero impact. Unless they changed it in the feature pack.
@Ian: No, it is not. While you can indeed interact with the totem, it won’t actually trigger the instance unless you have actually completed the prior event in the area. (Which does kind of make sense, because story-wise, how would you impress Knut/Eir if all you did was walk up a totem in an empty Svanir stronghold and just punch it?)
However, I think that this experimental section of the LS shows that it’s better for ANet to keep the LS content within instances. It was a nice idea to try and weave existing open world content into the LS, but it’s causing more problems than it solves.
The coil event chain is a LS specific event chain. Without the LS, it would not have existed.
I didn’t realize that there was a range so I never bothered to look at it and stuck to promoting other items.
This is a big problem with the wiki that I’ve complained about and been told by the editors that (for reasons I don’t quite understand) they can’t display the range.
I was doing fine materials but this was quite some time ago so i don’t remember what i got per sp. I don’t remember it being anywhere near 3G/sp though.
I’ll try to explain this again and please correct me if I do the calculations wrong.
Let’s assume the following:
1 sp equals 5 promotions
copper ore buy price is 42c
bronze ingot sell price is 1s8c
iron ingot sell price is 3s54c
every promotion produces 200 iron ingot
Since we’re doing 5 promotions, we will need 1000 bronze ingots (5 × 250). To craft a bronze ingot we need 2 copper ore since the output is 5 bronze ingots. So we need 2000 copper ore which costs 8.4 gold. The selling price of bronze ingots is 1s8c and we produced 1000 so we would get 10.8 gold if we sold them. This is a profit of 2.4 gold.
We now take the 1000 ingots and use them 5 times to promote them to iron ingots. At 200 a promotion, we get 1000 iron ingots. Selling these at 3s54c would give us 35.4 gold. This is a profit of 27 gold after the 8.4 gold costs.
This brings it to a profit of 24.6 gold per skill point if you get 200 iron ingots every time. What happens if you get 40 every time? You lost 1.32 gold or 3.72 (opportunity cost). You would have to average 48 iron ingots to break even while ignoring opportunity costs. You would need an average of 62 or produce 306 iron ingots) to make an actual profit.
So how many iron ingots to you get on average from 1 sp?
5×250 equals 1250, not 1000.
And the average output is somewhere inbetween 40 and 200. The wiki states 80 as average, my mileage varies a bit from that.
On average, i got enough ingots to make more than 3g profit per skillpoint.
Oops. That’s a nice error to make.
I didn’t realize that there was a range so I never bothered to look at it and stuck to promoting other items. If the average output is high enough over the longterm then i guess this is something that i should consider when I next decide to make a legendary. I assume the other items have an output range too?
I’ll try to explain this again and please correct me if I do the calculations wrong.
Let’s assume the following:
1 sp equals 5 promotions
copper ore buy price is 42c
bronze ingot sell price is 1s8c
iron ingot sell price is 3s54c
every promotion produces 200 iron ingot
Since we’re doing 5 promotions, we will need 1000 bronze ingots (5 × 250). To craft a bronze ingot we need 2 copper ore since the output is 5 bronze ingots. So we need 2000 copper ore which costs 8.4 gold. The selling price of bronze ingots is 1s8c and we produced 1000 so we would get 10.8 gold if we sold them. This is a profit of 2.4 gold.
We now take the 1000 ingots and use them 5 times to promote them to iron ingots. At 200 a promotion, we get 1000 iron ingots. Selling these at 3s54c would give us 35.4 gold. This is a profit of 27 gold after the 8.4 gold costs.
This brings it to a profit of 24.6 gold per skill point if you get 200 iron ingots every time. What happens if you get 40 every time? You lost 1.32 gold or 3.72 (opportunity cost). You would have to average 48 iron ingots to break even while ignoring opportunity costs. You would need an average of 62 or produce 306 iron ingots) to make an actual profit.
So how many iron ingots to you get on average from 1 sp?
I spent several thousand skillpoints promoting t1 mats since the start of the year and my average profit per skillpoint is beyond 3g.
I don’t know if you saw my edit as you were probably typing as it was posted.
Let’s say you produce X amount of iron ingots using Y amount of skill points to produce a profit. How much of that profit is attributed to the profit you would have gotten from selling the bronze ingots at the current sell price instead of converting to iron ingots.
12,500 copper ore costs 52.5 gold at 42 copper a piece.
It takes 10 copper ore to make 5 bronze ingot so you get 6,250 bronze ingots or 25 stacks.
It takes a stack of bronze ingots to get 40 iron ingots. This means the 25 stacks produce 1k iron ore or 4 stacks. I’m not sure where you got the 6-10 stacks as far as I’m aware, it’s a flat 40 iron ingot output.
So 4 stacks of iron ingots yields 35.4 gold. This is ignoring TP fees, dust, and the iron ingots used up to promote. You end up taking a loss. So how exactly do you make a profit? If it does crit or produce more, how much of the profit is attributed to the actual promotion and not the difference between buy/sell prices?
I calculated that it costs 4.2s to make 5 bronze ingots. Each bronze ingot sells for 1.08 silver which means 5 sell for 5.4s bringing a profit of 1.2s. You make a profit of 75 gold off 50 stacks. You cannot count this profit as profit you may or may not make from promotions. Again, I’m ignoring the additional costs.
Perhaps I’m missing something but it’s difficult to be thorough when I’m not at a PC using excel and half listening to the most boring and monotone presenter in the world. If I made a mistake somewhere, please point it out. I’ll rework this later when I can use a computer to make sure I did everything correctly.
Edit: Assuming I did the math incorrectly and you get 10 stacks of iron ore, you get a 88.5 gold (3.54s/ingot). Taking into consideration the 75 gold profit from bronze ingot crafting, your sp used only generated 13.5 gold.
BiFrost used to have a 1K+ profit margin but that went down due to rising tier 6 material costs (I think it was around 150G increase) while BiFrost selling price remained the same.
I KNOW I CAN CLICK SOWMEHRE ON MY SCREEN
i even can turn off gw2 and the green window goes away
or shut down pc …..
man
it is bout “action” i have to do after pressing buy or sell button which is not needed and just there to be annoying
you clearly never did mass buying or mass selling and you clearly dont even know what the problem is so plz stop answering all my posts (3th or 4th now and it always showed you dont know what you talk bout)
to make it simple – when i buy/sell 500 stacks from something than i can´t just click the buy/sell button again and again while watching tv on other screen, i always have to move my mouse to the next button and back.
So now you resort to insults saying that I don’t know what I’m talking about? Really? Just because you don’t agree with someone, doesn’t mean that they dont know what they’re talking about.
What i’m stating is a completely viable method to get rid of the confirmation box and even suggested/mentioned by Anet. I have done mass selling and buying and it’s not a bother assuming the box actually loads right away.
you can make this or more alone with the 300 skillpoints you need for a legendary
Making a legendary can be less time consuming that converting skill points into gold.
thats 3th or 4th post you answer me which show you dont have a clue what you even talk about.
so please ……
Uh huh. It can take more time to convert skill points to gold (done through material promotions) than it would be to craft legendary weapons. The additional time is time you could have spent doing other things such as farming gold.
I’ve converted skill points and I’ve crafted legendary weapons. I settled on legendary weapons because it’s much less time consuming and involved as I can just place buy orders and forget about it until the orders are filled.
and again ….
this thread is about legendarys and it need more than only skillpoints and someone would burn 1mio karma + 1x world compelte + 500 dungeon tokens + alot other stuff just to sell his 300 skillpoints? Really? all this for some lil time difference? i dont think anyone on this planet could be this stupid.
You’d get about 80 gold or so by converting 1m karma. You’d get about 847 gold by converting promoting assuming you get 2.5 gold per sp. Promoting takes a lot of time and effort which i have been stating but you keep ignoring. This time spent promoting could be used to farm gold.
It takes like 100 stacks of tier 1 mats to produce like 30 stacks of tier 2 at a cost of 20 sp. do you realize how much time this takes and how much time it would take to convert ~339 sp?
Obviously I’m going under the assumption that thy already have the karma, world completion, and skill points. They need these to make a legendary just like they need skill points to convert them to gold.
Edit:
Going off the assumption that for 20 skill points, you convert 100 stacks of tier 1 to 35 stacks of tier 2. That’s 25k tier 1 to 8,750 tier 2.
To convert ~340 sp aould require 1,700 stacks (425,000) tier 1 and produce 595 (148,750) tier 2. How much time do you think you would spend trying to buy up all of the materials (not considering wait time)? How much time would it take to promote everything? How much time would you have to spend trying to sell 595 stacks?
You’re quick to insult people that do not agree with your opinion. You say people are stupid for not converting sp directly through promotions instead of crafting legendary weapons. People have their own reasons (many of which are legit) for why they choose to go the legendary route and you have no ground to insult them for it.
the problem is the OK button on this green window is not same place as the buy or sell button on screen before. So when wanna buy more than 1 stack i have to move always my mouse. And this is annoying like hell.
I’ve had no problem. You do not have to hit the OK button. Just click outside of that box and it goes away.
you can make this or more alone with the 300 skillpoints you need for a legendary
Making a legendary can be less time consuming that converting skill points into gold.
thats 3th or 4th post you answer me which show you dont have a clue what you even talk about.
so please ……
Uh huh. It can take more time to convert skill points to gold (done through material promotions) than it would be to craft legendary weapons. The additional time is time you could have spent doing other things such as farming gold.
I’ve converted skill points and I’ve crafted legendary weapons. I settled on legendary weapons because it’s much less time consuming and involved as I can just place buy orders and forget about it until the orders are filled.
Im going off lowest listing for everything, including the twilight.
Calculate all of the costs of each component for a legendary using the buy order price. Your 3,000 is going off of what it would cost to buy everything immediately.
I have it at 2,761 to make with a profit of 340.85 gold if sold for 3,650.
Set the value as 0 or add a column for karma costs. When I do my calculations, I just set the cost to zero as it’s inconsequential. Karma is very easy to get and the costs are relatively low.
I brought up those items since quite a number of quick and easy gold by crafting recipes are of those types. For the celery, you can do the event daily and get enough karma to buy enough to make several stacks of vegetable stock.
You cannot make any accurate comparisons by going off bolt prices. There’s often a lag between bolt prices and scraps. Scraps sell much quicker than bolts. Most people would sell the scraps rather than refine them first and then sell.
Are you planning to add other recipes too? I noticed that Bolt of Damask and Bowl of Vegetable Stock did not show up when they produce profit. The latter actually produces 100% profit (150% if you bought ingredients on buy order).
I just went through 495 loot bags and they were okay I suppose.. A handful of tier 6 fine mats, a few lodestones, a few rares, and about 205 silk from salvaging everything else.
What most of the websites dont consider in their calculations is buying mats on buy order instead of buying them at lowest listing. So if required mats have a high price spread as well (and buy orders get filled) you can raise your profits by a good amount.
By buying up certain mats, raising their lowest listing for a short time or placing some high bids on them, you can influence, which items those guides recommend to craft and accellerate their production from players using those guides, while placing low buy orders yourself.
While those guides mostly are a good help for players that dont know much about crafting, i wouldnt follow them blindly and look for other opportunities.
Especially if you have limited release recipes at your disposal you can raise any profession from 400-500 with a profit.
But im getting off topic.
Quick question: How do you get to level 10 by just leveling cooking from 0-200?
Those items are so profitable atm because they are used in small quantities in crafting the cooks backpack (stock, yams) or are required for an collectible achievement (steak).
There are plenty of steaks that are profitable atm. Celebratory steak might be even better to craft (at rating 25) but you need to visit meatober fest first to get the recipe.
They modified how much EXP you need from 1-15 or something like that with the update so it’s much quicker to level.
Yeah, that’s what I want people to realize. I don’t get why I was able to go for so long crafting those and only a few people noticed them too. The steaks and mashed yams really are not worth it as they move way too slow. Quite often I just sold to lowest bidder to get rid of them.
I’ll start off right away that this is not a guide because it will likely not work 24 hours from now. It’ll likely be much sooner than that so use this at your own risk.
I’m posting this to show that there has existed a way to level up to level 10 through cooking that did not come at a loss like many people believed unless you farmed quests/events. As a result. I’ve made a decent amount of gold from cooking since the update almost two weeks ago.
Another reason is to show the flaws with various websites that we use for guides which apparently do not capture everything. For instance, one item is/was generating over 200% profit. There was a guide on reddit from one of these websites that had made guides specifically to show you how to level to 200 in cooking. To their defense though, they likely go off total cost based on sell order prices rather than net cost after selling everything on TP when the recipes are sorted.
The items that allow this to happen are:
Bowl of Vegetable Stock (costs 3s42c to make and sells for 9s97c)
Mashed Yams (costs 10s8c to make and sells for 13s89c)
Pepper Steak (costs 24s23c to make and sells for 34s50c)
The last two used to produce a much larger profit but several people caught on and started flooding the TP with them. They’re also very slow moving items as well. Those prices were from a few hours ago. There’s a delay between when I wrote this and when I’m posting as I’m waiting for everything I have to sell first.
I’ll post what my latest guide was that I used for myself. It’s gone through several iterations over the last couple weeks and produces minimal profit because I didn’t want to deal with those slow moving items. Earlier on I was making upwards to 2 gold profit each run from cooking alone. The cooking levels are based on my memory but they should be fairly close.
Level 0 to about 35
Make 26 Piles of Cinnamon and Sugar
Make 26 Loaves of Bread
Make 26 Cinnamon Apples
Level 35 to about 55
Make 26 Bowls of Vegetable Stock
Level 55 to about 77
Make 26 Cheeseburgers
Level 77 to about 115
Make 110 Bowls of Baker’s Dry Ingredients
Level 115 to 125
Make 13 Bowls of Strawberry Apple Compote
Level 125 to 150
Make 26 Bowls of Strawberry Pie Filling
Level 150 to 175
Make 26 Cherry Cookies (each attempt produces 2 so you’ll end up with 52)
Level 175 to 200
Make 26 Bowls of Grape Pie Filling
As of a few hours ago, using buy orders which I always did, this came to a cost of 2g65s69c to get to level 10 through cooking. If I sold everything on sell orders, I made 3g55s9c. This is just a little over 36 silver in profit after TP fees.
This is not counting the 11 Loot Bags you get through PS rewards that scale with your level. It also doesn’t count the champ bag you get at the end where the armor that drops does scale but the fine mats don’t. There’s also the dye and copper doubloon that you get a well.
Good luck if you choose to use this to farm black lion keys as I’m sure others will be attempting the same or trying to craft just those ingredients to make gold. I’m sure there are ingredients in the 200+ area as well. It kind of makes you wonder if you could have crafted the other professions for much cheaper than what they’re currently calculated at on various websites.
It’ll take more than 3 years for you to get that much since they’ve toned down the number of achievement points you get from the living story and how many you get from the dailies each day.
They can wait until the next match. It’s hotjoin afterall. This is just to lrevent people from manipulating the auto balance to join the winning side and to stop spectators from joining the winning side. Those are some of the major issues that i see people complain about.
I’m often getting a bug where the sell order listings are incorrect. When I go to sell an item I see prices much higher than they are and often around 10x but that could just be a coincidence.
They’re influencing demand, not creating it though.
That’s an entirely pointless distinction to make. It’s like saying that stabbing someone with a sword is “encouraging blood loss, not creating it.” Whatever the terminology, it is within their power to make certain items more or less desirable to the players, so they cannot claim that player demand is some entirely alien force that they can do nothing to account for.
No not really pointless but I can understand why you’d say it is because you cannot see the difference. It’s all part of the argument that this is a player-driven economy which you don’t seem to understand which is likely because you don’t know what a player-driven economy actually is.
Yea but the fact that they’re two separate things is what’s at issue or at least with the argument made that the economy isnt player driven but completely controlled by Anet. It’s being argued that they’re the same when they’re not.
It is a collaboration, will you at least agree to that much? The economy is a result of the combined actions of the players AND ANet. The relevant distinction here is that “the players” is an uncoordinated mass of hundreds of thousands of individuals, each seeking out their own best advantage, while ANet is a single unified entity.
If I, as A player, decide that I want to shift a given market in a certain direction, I have almost no power to do so. I can post a recklessly high sell order, and nobody will notice. I can post a recklessly low one, and lose a ton of money, but it’ll be snapped up and the economy will grind on. Individual players have almost negligible influence on the markets.
On the other hand, ANet can always add a new recipe that either makes something way easier to get, or way more useful to have. They can make something drop more often, or drop less often. ANet has WAY more tools to almost effortlessly shift market behaviors, so discussions about this being a “player driven” economy are entirely semantic in nature, it’s obviously ANet that holds the reigns. The GW2 economy is “player driven” in the same way that a dog race is “dog driven.” Yeah, the dogs will do their own thing, but the humans prepared the ring and set the mechanical rabbit loose, and the dogs gonna run.
I’ll agree with you that it’s a collaboration but that’s as far as we’re going to agree unfortunately.
I don’t feel like quoting so i’m numbering each of your topics as 1-4 but only adressing the first two.
1) I do not believe you understand what player demand actually is nor what Anet’s role would actually be.
2) Anet has stated that they want a player driven economy. Just because they have the ability, does not mean that they should. You are confusing the type of economy we have in this game versus what you believe to be an ideal economy for you.
your theory is shot to heck by the fact that anet has repeatedly stepped in and altered the economy multiple times based on what they decided was important.
Its really not a question of whether anet can/should alter the economy through design. They do that every few months at the very least. They can and will do it at will. They actually know very well that this is not a truely player driven economy, even JS has said, it is player driven to a degree.
It is probably not possible for a game developer to have a truely player driven economy, being as they design the game.
But lets say it was a player driven economy, its highly likely the supply on highly desired items would be more elastic.
How is it “shot to heck”? I’ve stated that they influence the economy. That’s exactly what they did. No different than what a government’s actions have on an economy.
They strive for a completely player driven economy just as they strive for it to be a free market. Nothing will ever be 100%. In the real world, we don’t even have that although it’s something we strive for. What people are asking is for Anet to step away from that and go in the complete opposite direction by regulating the market for various items.
I played it earlier this year. Combat was okay but everything else was horrible. It seemed like they spent most of their time making Act 2 and then ran out of steam after you left. The random high level mobs on the island you start the game didn’t help either.
Edit: Oh wait. That was Two Worlds II. I did remember Amalur from a year or so ago and that mage was so OP with a simple spell combo.
You’ll notice I said you’ll recoup most of your costs, not all of them. This is because you actually will make a significant part of that 1.7 gold back by selling items you gain in your playthrough on the AH. (This also counts the money you receive from finishing quests, the things you actually can sell from quest rewards, etc.)
Just because you’re pessimistic about it doesn’t mean it’s inaccurate.
So… don’t salvage stuff if you want to make your money back. Gotta sell it.
66 loot bags opened with the average value of everything being around 30 silver every 11 bags. Yep. You get 11 bags so to recoup the cost you would have to make on average 15 silver. It could be RNG but then not even champ boxes offer that much.
Well then you don’t recoup your costs. I only assumed it was that because i know you do not make over a gold from the loot bags and silver you receiving from ckmpleting the story steps.
Of course anything you get from those bags is based on RNG so those items can’t be used as a basis to recoup costs. This of course going by what you said. There’s also ge skins that sell for a single ticket and tend to become for valuable later on but that doesn’t count either.
The recouping costs is based on the average skin’s selling price divided by the number of runs it would take to get enough scraps for a ticket. You get like 5 silver total from completing the story steps, about 5 silver for the copper doubloon, and a few silver for the dye. You also get 11 loot bags but you will not get expensive materials from them often due to RNG.
Yea but the fact that they’re two separate things is what’s at issue or at least with the argument made that the economy isnt player driven but completely controlled by Anet. It’s being argued that they’re the same when they’re not.
Think about an ant farm. If you want the left side to be more popular you can put honey on that side. That is a very basic analogy of what Anet can do. If they want to make an item more popular they can give it extra sparkles or more utilty.
They’re influencing demand, not creating it though.
it’s vulnerable to control by a few people willing to exploit it.
What’s been bolded is incorrect.
Anyone can make an unsupported italicized statement.
Actually, I can’t recall if JS made any statements on that, or if he’s allowed to. He could explain theories of value/scarcity much more precisely. With actual numbers. Hm, I should ask.
He has numerous times. There’s even a thread where he posted the transaction history over a couple days for Dusk.
I don’t feel like quoting so i’m numbering each of your topics as 1-4 but only adressing the first two.
1) I do not believe you understand what player demand actually is nor what Anet’s role would actually be.
2) Anet has stated that they want a player driven economy. Just because they have the ability, does not mean that they should. You are confusing the type of economy we have in this game versus what you believe to be an ideal economy for you.
1) No option to choose team once match has begun. Remaining and new players are then randomly assigned to a team when they choose tojoin the match. Going to spectate mode from being in the match prevents you from going back into the match. This is to prevent forcing an auto-balance or to manipulate auto-assignment to get the team you want.
2) Player has 30 sec to leave spawn area or they are forcibly ported outside of their spawn area. If player is inactive for 60 seconds, they are kicked to spectator mode for the duration of the match.
If I bought a pistol and started shooting people, would you say I paid my own money, therefore I can do anything I want with it?
Anyway, devs won’t do anything with these farms, because they are terrified of losing small sPvP community. For example, they did nothing with Skyhammer farmers.
Lmao. One hurts people while another doesnt. Not the same.
The only other method is to do a boring gold-grind or play the Trading Post. While this is a fine lesson in economics and work ethic, it’s not great from a game design perspective at all. Furthermore, because of the small market, it’s vulnerable to control by a few people willing to exploit it.
