Guild Wars 2

spoj.9672:

Ergh its like talking to brick walls. You guys clearly cant read. Im done.

Disagreeing is not the same as not reading.

A lot of the differences that are being discussed I don’t really see as differences. I’m also getting the idea that unless a puzzle is designed for speed runners, it’s poor design. I do agree with time-gates such as non-skippable cutscenes/dialogue being an issue.

The cats training to fight in the WvW borderlands.

As far as we know, everyone has an equal chance as getting a precursor from the forge. There’s no DR and no accounts that are supposedly “luckier” that others. So long as people record all of their results, excluding those that choose not to record their results is not important. As there’s no difference between the two groups of players, it really just comes down to whether there’s a large enough sample size to base your results on.

As far as whether we have reached a sufficient sample size, I do not know. I don’t follow people’s results. All i know is you can’t just discount one group’s results because they don’t include the others. That was the point I was trying to make after reading your post.

Shouldn’t be too difficult to just let you know when you hover the cursor over the price. It already shows the full price to include coppers so it should be difficult to add another line or two to show how many under that price you have listed.

I’ve made my gold back and a ton more through time-gated recipes and various other recipes that produce a profit.

Essence Snow.3194:

For them, but not necessarily for the game in general. Most of the players that throw in and fail more often or not do not keep track nor continue. All of those attempts as well as ones on the other side of the bell would need to be taken into account for a reasonable estimate…….ie…..those keeping track of mass forges are likely to be on the luckier side of the bell

If you have the “lucky” handful do 1,000,000 forges that track their results and 1,000,000 forges among those that don’t, do you really expect to see two different results? One group recording their results is no different than another group whether they record them or not.

It all comes down to sample size.

Rajani Isa.6294:

Ayrilana.1396:

If they live in the same household, I don’t see why they can’t share the same account. Just my personal opinion.

Because selling accounts is one of two ways ArenaNet makes money.

Also, account share drama. They don’t want to waste CS time on that.

The number of people that would likely qualify as living under the same household is low enough to be inconsequential. This is much different that using your friend in real life. or you know only online, from using your account.

Again, this is my opinion. I’m not debating whether they should or should not change the rules as I can potentially see this thread eventually moving towards that direction. I just wanted to make that disclaimer.

If they live in the same household, I don’t see why they can’t share the same account. Just my personal opinion.

Casmurro.9046:

People that say that dungeons is just about stacking and pressing 1111 are too used to get carried by good groups.

I think a lot of people know exactly what it is that stacking does but use that phrase against typically speed runners as they’re also the ones to use various phrases against pugs. I sometimes accidentally use it knowing that it’s not entirely accurate.

Most know the benefits of stacking for quick revivals from downed, sharing buffs, cleaving to get the most from your attacks, using LoS to get all mobs to one location, and so on. They’re also aware that stackers use their abilities (whether CC, blinds, blocks, etc) to protect the group long enough to DPS whatever they’re fighting down.

They never said guarantee. People have been tracking this since launch so I’m pretty sure they have a reasonable estimate by now on how many exotics or rares it would take on average to yield a precursor.

hybrid.5027:

Ayrilana.1396:

So any obstacle within a dungeon that doesn’t have combat elements to it is poor design?

It all depends on whether its tedious and/or annoying.

Tedious is subjective. I’m sure just as many people would say combat oriented puzzles are tedious as there would be for the non combat ones.

hybrid.5027:

Bringing bombs to the NPC in CoF P2 is bad design because there’s no combat needed to complete it?

Nope, that is a good puzzle. Here is why: disorganized groups with no communication finish it with 35 seconds left on the timer. Organized groups with good communication can finish it with 70 seconds left on the timer. The better you are the faster the puzzle can be completed. Unlike the electric floor puzzle, which takes the same amount of time no matter how many times you’ve experienced it.

Ok. So it’s all about how quickly you can do a puzzle rather than the actual challenge. Gotcha.

So your criteria is that skilled, organized groups must be able to complete the puzzle faster than unskilled, disorganized groups? Well just about every puzzle I listed fits that description along with those in the Aetherblade path.

By the way, there is a wide variability with the electric floor puzzle between skilled, coordinated groups and those that are the opposite. Do a pug run and tell me you finish that puzzle in the same amount of time as your speed run group.

hybrid.5027:

The lasers in CoE are bad design because there’s no combat?

The lasers would be an awesome puzzle if there was some punishment for failure. As it is the puzzle is just a time gate and bad design.

The dolphin path and orb path in the aquatic fractal don’t have any punishment for failure. If you fail, you just WP (well, respawn) and try again. No different than the laser hallway. So how is one good design and the other not when both don’t meet your criteria for not having a punishment for failure mechanic?

hybrid.5027:

If I remember correctly 2/3 of the obstacles in the reactor fractal don’t require combat.

Most groups prefer any third tier fractal to that one.

Your point? Most groups prefer swamp to aquatic and you stated that aquatic puzzles are good design.

hybrid.5027:

Dolphin or orb part of the aquatic fractal doesn’t require combat.

No artificial time gate.

None of the puzzles I listed had a time-gate other than the time it takes to do them which is dither the same amount of less.

hybrid.5027:

Doing the beginning of the swamp fractal doesn’t require combat. I’m sure there are many more.

No artificial time gate.

Same as above.

deSade.9437:

Ayrilana.1396:

It requires some form of strategy and coordination other that just stacking on the boss and spamming your #1 key.

Again with this story?

Ohai, jooooe. I logged randomly in archeage but nat says he never sees you online? Wut’s wrong with you?

Look at all of those speed runs videos. Notice that one thing they have in common is that they all stack. I just want to clarify that I am in no way against stacking as I actually prefer it to the clusterkitten that can happen when people don’t.

I brought stacking up because I don’t see that very engaging and it’s used for a lot of the trash mobs and bosses for good reason. How can some puzzles be deemed not engaging yet some people want more combat puzzles where you’re essentially just stacking like we all usually do?

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Ayrilana.1396:

RSLongK.8961:

Whut? i am lost. Last time i did this with my low lvl engie i soloed everything unitl boss where ppl where waiting?
What is the trouble?

It requires too much effort. That’s the trouble.

effort isn’t the issue.

effort:reward is the issue.

Takes less than 10 min to run the mini dungeon. Even much less as you often don’t need to get the sword as there’s someone at the last gate.

RSLongK.8961:

Whut? i am lost. Last time i did this with my low lvl engie i soloed everything unitl boss where ppl where waiting?
What is the trouble?

It requires too much effort. That’s the trouble.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

The answer is… Palawa Joko. The trick? Everyone seeks a character with an E, so what’s the best way to hide for Mr E? Using a letter that doesn’t even exist in their own name!

Dub dun dun

Wait until they try to finish the watchwork tools set.

People will always gravitate to the easiest way to do things that requires the least effort. You see this at the golem world boss when they exploit the terrain to avoid damage and you see this with mesmer portals and jumping puzzles, guild puzzles, and pretty much anything else. Players just want the rewards but don’t want to work for them.

Ohoni.6057:

So the 1681 sell listing on 9/21 was set by Anet as well as the 1409 listing we have now for Dusk? After all, the players are but just pawns and are controlled by Anet in regards to the prices that they set for items such as Dusk.

It’s like you aren’t even paying attention.

No. Not at all. Do you disagree with my post? I’d find it odd if you did since you’d be disagreeing with everything that you’ve stated so far. You have stated numerous times that all demand and supply in this game is controlled by Anet along with the prices as a result with little to none of that due to players. There are a lot of items that have wide fluctuations in price and supply. So if that’s not caused by players then it must be caused by Anet.

They need to add a refresh box. It’s a pain to have to close the window and re-select the item again.

It’s also annoying when trying to place a buy order when someone has undercut everyone else by a lot and is 1 copper above the buy order price. I’m forced to buy however many items they listed for that price and then I can place a buy order for how many remaining that I need. The old TP did it all in a single transaction.

Excel is the easiest way. I’m sure others have created online spreadsheets for people to use.

When I made my ascended, I chose to track it by the mid-level component level (e.g. Mithrillium) or higher (deldrimor ingots) rather than micro-manage quantities at the lowest levels such as silk scraps.

Ohoni.6057:

This might sound like Libertarian claptrap, but any price a fair, free market agrees upon is the correct price.

You were right the first time, not so much the second.

So the 1681 sell listing on 9/21 was set by Anet as well as the 1409 listing we have now for Dusk? After all, the players are but just pawns and are controlled by Anet in regards to the prices that they set for items such as Dusk.

Just like how the supply changes that occurred were not caused by players but Anet directly manipulating it. They control the drop rates and players have no say in whether their actions or inactions affect their ability to get precursors and whether they have a choice to post it on the TP or not. I guess Anet must continually be changing the drop rates of precursors to match the prices and supply.

Or post here

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/List-Of-Things-We-Want-In-Gemstore/first#post2218752

It’s normally best to purchase in small quantities if you need something now rather than later. If impatient people see a large amount order in front of theirs, they’re more likely to re-list to put theirs ahead. You’ll still get people who will do it regardless but you’ll at least be minimizing that probability.

The difference fluctuates depending on when you look at the prices. I’ve seen it go as low as 80 gold recently.

Ok I Did It.2854:

Ayrilana.1396:

I got 5 last night from 4 trees. They must’ve increased the drop rate!

Nice troll

Anyway back at the OP, it just seems really random, I can go days without getting any no matter how many tree’s I hit, and other days I get 7 or 8 in very few tree’s ( im currently at 4 days without getting any )

More like a sarcastic example of how you cannot infer changes based on small sample sizes.

I got 5 last night from 4 trees. They must’ve increased the drop rate!

I doubt they’re going to change that within EotM just to facilitate people doing karma trains.

I don’t see where dungeons have to be strictly combat only though. There’s nothing wrong about having non-combat obstacles in dungeons. Besides, most of the combat in dungeons is solved by stacking in a corner to LoS mobs. Not very engaging even though it’s pretty efficient.

So any obstacle within a dungeon that doesn’t have combat elements to it is poor design? Bringing bombs to the NPC in CoF P2 is bad design because there’s no combat needed to complete it? The lasers in CoE are bad design because there’s no combat? If I remember correctly 2/3 of the obstacles in the reactor fractal don’t require combat. Dolphin or orb part of the aquatic fractal doesn’t require combat. Doing the beginning of the swamp fractal doesn’t require combat. I’m sure there are many more.

The point is that there already exists many obstacles in fractals and dungeons that do not require combat to get through. Are those all poorly designed? If not, what makes them different than the obstacles in the Aetherblade path?

I do agree with most of what you’re saying about time gates, unskippable dialogue, and the need for more challenge. The only part that I disagree with is that it must be combat oriented and anything other than that is poor design.

Cheap and fast work against each other.

400 – 425: Refine orichalcum ore and ancient wood logs
425 – 450: Craft exotics
450 – 475: Refine T7 / Craft all materials for weapons / craft exotics
475 -500: Craft exotics

Also note that you’ll need recipes for the ascended inscription and for each ascended weapon. These cost laurels and gold. Crafting the blade and hilt, for example, won’t be available until you’re 500 as well. Same goes for the inscription.

Refining about two stacks of tier 6 materials will get you to 425. Refining the T7 materials and doing the ecto refinement daily recipes also yield XP once you’re at 450 but this takes time unless you have a stockpile.

That 90 gold is going off the sell order prices so you’d save a lot of gold if you placed buy orders. Most of that cost can be minimized further if you farmed the orichalcum ore, ancient wood logs, and ecto. This can be done while you’re doing the refinements at 450. Crafts all of the materials that you need for all of your weapons before crafting exotic weapons to cap off at 500

Ah. I had forgotten about the cutscenes and such that extend the time waiting around. Unfortunately it’s something that will probably not be resolved as they still do that in the living story instances.

I never found an issue with the puzzles themselves so long as they don’t glitch out. I’ve heard people claim that sometimes the hologram generators do not spawn holograms preventing progress. Not every puzzle/challenge in dungeon has to be combat oriented. The bugs and such definitely should be fixed though.

spoj.9672:

Anyone who claims that aetherpath is the best dungeon makes me question their sanity. I get the impression they are just blinded by the shiny puzzles and newish content and overlook all the major design faults of the dungeon.

What design faults are you referring to?

You won’t be alone in missing out on rewards. Expect to see a lot of threads this weekend with people wondering where the rest of their rewards are.

All of them of them have people rushing to do their daily. I don’t have the time lately to spending over an hour trying to do them on maps that may or may not have NPC’s to revive. The ones that do are the ones that people gravitate to. With mega servers, there are now leas servers as people get lumped together. I used to revive the golems in south Metrica but it was time consuming as you have about a ~40% chance of actually getting credit.

It was not your metaphor that I did not like but how blown out of proportion you took it to argue against my argument which was simply that there’s a difference between changing something in the midst of cresting it versus changing something while it’s already gone live. More thought of the effects of your changes needs to be considered when making changes after something has gone live and especially after you’ve made it so things are even more interconnected than they were at release.

I never said that they shouldn’t make changes. That likely got lost when you blew it up with the metaphors and made my argument seem mire complicated than it actually was. All that I was arguing was that there’s a difference and more care needs to be put in when making changes after release. It’s odd that you blew it up when your last paragraph was most of my argument.

That’s the difference though for aquatic, you go out of your way to a zone where very few people do it. I’m often competing for reviver because everyone is there rushing to revive the NPC’s and rarely wait for other players. You’re rushing to the NPC’s to grt credit. Same can be said about yaks and sentries in WvW.

You’re not competing with players on who gets credit or not. You’re competing for the opportunity. If you have a lot of players on the map doing the same thing and not working together, you’re pretty much competing with them. Just like how you compete with players to get into a good Teq or Wurm server.

A lot of this was not an issue before the mega servers as you could choose where you wanted to go. If I wanted to go to a low pop server, I could. I do admit that it’s still far better than other games where you compete for the tag.

Ohoni.6057:

You’re saying this economy is vendor based? Are you really sure about that? If so, I highly suggest you look up exactly what a vendor based economy is within an MMO.

Sigh, I’ve made my point on this already numerous times, but the basic fact is that every item on the TP was priced, roughly speaking, by ANet. The price that exists is the result of the systems they put into place and when the prices fall out of line with their projections, they tweak things to adjust them.

It’s a bit similar to the parenting system by which the parent asks the child what punishment they feel they deserve. The child is free to ask for something too harsh or too lenient, but ultimately the parent knows the appropriate level of punishment and will apply it regardless.

It’s not the simplest vendor system out there, it would be far easier on them if they just sent the vendor price for everything and then added a +-15% random modifier to it that fluctuated over time, but ultimately ANet sets all the prices and the players only have an illusion of agency in the economy.

No. A vendor based system is essentially where you get a currency from drops and such which you then exchange at a vendor. Armor, weapons, and all other items do not drop within the game.

You have some belief that Anet controls exactly what the prices will be for everything within the game. You base this on the handful of times that they’ve tweaked a few item’s recipes such as silk refinement. All prices are set by players based on what they feel they can get for it. All items that are put on the TP are put on there by players. Any transactions that occur are between players.

mtpelion.4562:

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re saying this economy is vendor based? Are you really sure about that? If so, I highly suggest you look up exactly what a vendor based economy is within an MMO.

We have a “vendor baseline” in that almost all items can be sold to a vendor for a base price. That is very different from “vendor based”.

Yeah but I’m looking more towards the acquisition side of things where most items are not bought from a vendor. We have some of that with dungeon/karma vendors but the vast majority of items do not come from vendors.

Ohoni.6057:

What he’s trying to do is change a system that is more or less run by players to one that is run essentially by Anet where prices are capped at what he personally feels is a “fair” price. I’d swear he’d be happier if there was no economy and everything in the game was vendor based.

It already is vendor based, if you’d only notice the strings.

You’re saying this economy is vendor based? Are you really sure about that? If so, I highly suggest you look up exactly what a vendor based economy is within an MMO.

Ohoni.6057:

But that doesn’t change the conclusions whatsoever. The casual player who wishes for cheaper precursors may not be aware that the unintended consequences of that damage him significantly.

Or they are aware, and do not care.

The thing is that while something is being created, nobody or nothing currently relies on it. When the game was being created, you had the basic reliances created by the devs but this was before player involvement ever took place. Once the game released, and players entered into the system, the ability to change became more difficult otherwise you’d risk disrupting, of destabilizing, that system.

And yet since launch they have made numerous corrections to “the natural order” that have disrupted various markets, some unintentional, but some that were very deliberately designed to tweak the supply/demand equation in a given market (such as unilaterally raising the amount of logs needed to make a plank at various tiers). It’s a bit ridiculous to claim that ANet is unwilling or unable to make these corrections if they choose to.

And you fail to realize the difference between adjusting something such as logs needed for refinement compared to adjusting something as precursors. I’m sure you’ll next say there isn’t a difference which is why this discussion continues on.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not manipulation if they did it as they were creating the system. There’s a rather big difference between changing something while you’re originally creating it from changing something after it’s already been released.

if you consider them to be the natural order, or the gods if you will, there really is no difference between their original design and whatever they seek to change. The gods will is the gods will.
Nature/time destroys markets and alters economics all the time. Resources dry up, new technologies are discovered, new resources are found.Politics change costs. If your premise is that anet are not manipulators, but represent the natural order/technology/evolution etc, then it also follows that changes they make after the fact all into the same line.

There is really no difference in creating or altering, other than it being rather annoying for people who are used to something.

Please keep within the scope of the discussion. I’m half tempted to say this is just a strawman argument as my argument was about there being a difference between changing something while in the process of creating the game and changing something after it’s been released. You then went on some ridiculous tangent about gods, natural order, and so on that you went about in your post which don’t really have anything to do with the discussion.

The thing is that while something is being created, nobody or nothing currently relies on it. When the game was being created, you had the basic reliances created by the devs but this was before player involvement ever took place. Once the game released, and players entered into the system, the ability to change became more difficult otherwise you’d risk disrupting, of destabilizing, that system.

Imagibe creating a database for people to use. It’s easy to make changes as you’re creating it. However, once it’s been released and the people have been using it, making additional changes become much more difficult. If you make a large change to something then it could have a big impact on everyone that uses the database. The difference between changes while creating and after has to do with the reliance established after its release.

Back to the game itself, there are many recipes that exist now that did not at release. Doing an overhaul of several items within the game could have a ripple effect and really disrupt the stability of the economy. People suggest just bumping up the drop rates except they don’t think much further than that of what the complete impact would be.

Everything in the game is more interconnected now than they were at release.

Mister E, whether one person or group, has strong connections to the humans as I believe just about all of their interactions in the game world has been with human characters.

Small story arc and repeat of all previous Halloween content except for that mini dungeon.

I just use gw2tp.com which is find more useful when i need to spot check something.

I also agree with undercutting by a large amount if you want to sell it quickly and reduce the likelihood of being undercut. I do want to clarify that this is not best when everyone does it as that’s what usually leads to the price to crash. It also depends on the item and how fast they usually sell. This impacts how much you could undercut by as large is rather subjective.

I’ve started to do this now after I’ve placed an item on the TP and waited an entire month to sell it but couldn’t because it got undercut over and over by different people. I’ve had a constant 6 sell orders for it in front of mine. I need to free of the gold so I delist and relist under theirs only to get 6 more new sell orders below mine.

This is just the nature of the system. If you’re trying to sell an item that can potentially have a greater inflow of supply rather than outflow, it may be better to just undercut to a degree to insure a quicker sale at the cost of some of hour potential profit.

phys.7689:

tolunart.2095:

Ohoni.6057:

Ok, what about the opposite then, what if they just dropped the T6 requirements to 100-125 each rather than 250 each? They did a similar thing with Unidentified dyes. This would mean that without raising supply any, they could reduce the demand due to Legendary crafting at roughly the same rate they increased supply of Pres.

The mats are something that can be collected over time, while the precursor is a single, major purchase. A lot of players have the mats already, and are competing with each other to buy the popular precursors or give up and buy a cheaper one instead (as per the point of the thread, you can choose a “lesser” precursor if you are impatient). Lowering the requirements by 100 each would lead to a number of players dumping their excess mats to make the money to get a precursor. It’s good for the ones who can act immediately, but soon the price of mats will crash while the increased wealth being thrown at precursors drives up their price.

So the first few to dump their mats will get their precursors, and the after the cheap ones are sold the price will rise while late comers will get less money for their mats and still won’t be able to afford the precursor.

Anet can increase precursor drops and raise the price of mats, or reduce mat requirements and raise the price of precursors… Neither solves your “problem” because no matter what they do, making a Legendary becomes more expensive. Which is why they haven’t done anything yet, it’s better to let the market determine the prices than try to manipulate the market and mess it up for everyone.

they created the current state of precursors through item distribution, methods of aquisition, job weapon acessibility, etc. If they change it would not be any different than how they manipulated it when they created the system. Or if you dont consider it manipulation, but grand design, changing their design would be the same.

As for the legendary aquisition becoming more expensive, not really likely, theoretically legendaries have already hit their price point, it would theoretically mostly change the distribution of cost.
Most people actually trying to obtain a legendary would prefer the cost to be more placed in materials, because that value represents a consistent progress to your goal, lets say you want charged lodestones, you can hunt skritt, alchemical bags, sparks, do COE and Dwayna missions. Even if you only get one a day, you are looking at 1/100 progress per day.

basically for many players, getting a precursor is like buying a house, which most americans would never be able to do in their lifetimes without credit. Having to save up 200k for house, by the time you save up 200k, its 300k, then by the time you save up that extra 100k its 350, so on and so forth

the legendary mats are more like building a house, you can get the materials as you can afford them, securing your progress each day.

It’s not manipulation if they did it as they were creating the system. There’s a rather big difference between changing something while you’re originally creating it from changing something after it’s already been released.

The first bit of the video they mentioned that they don’t want players competing with each other in PvE. This happens all of the time because of mega servers when players try to do their daily.

How many of you had to compete and race to an NPC to get your daily reviver daily? How about for the aquatic slayer daily?

This is what I found incorrect so far from the first few minutes of listening to the video.

hybrid.5027:

Elrey.5472:

You need Aetherpath, which is imo the best dungeon ever in gw2, the only one that’s fun and challenging to go with a group of friends

What is specifically challenging about it? None of the bosses are hard and the puzzles are more annoying than they are difficult.

It requires some form of strategy and coordination other that just stacking on the boss and spamming your #1 key. This is where pugs struggle because they’re so used to that as being the way to succeed just like in their open world farms.

Also keep in mind that about 99% of guides use the sell price which is what you would pay to get the item off the TP right away. You can cut the costs by placing buy orders and even more depending on when you place them.

He’ll argue next that they can just increase the drop rate of precursors and/or have a special weekend with an even higher drop rate of precursors to flood the market temporarily to compensate for the demand shock.

What he’s trying to do is change a system that is more or less run by players to one that is run essentially by Anet where prices are capped at what he personally feels is a “fair” price. I’d swear he’d be happier if there was no economy and everything in the game was vendor based.

Ohoni.6057:

Mini’s

Minis can be bought using gems, which means that they interact with the gem exchange, and they can also be bought using gold, which interacts with any number of markets. If a massive change caused people to start spending all their gold on minis, the other markets would suffer.

Did the changes from the mini collection to the wardrobe affect other items on the TP? No. It’s isolated because those items have zero impact on everything else on the TP. Please stay within the context of what was being discussed.

You can delete all of your characters. You’d then be starting the game like you did the first time. I don’t see why anyone would want to “reset” their account though.