There is no guarantee these fluctuations would be permanent though. Yes, you can conceivably say that due to the increase in demand, the prices will temporarily spike. But let’s say (in theory) your average player only ever wants one set of ascended armor. This may mean he will go for it now when it was too expensive for him before, but as soon as he has his set, he is done and no longer has an affect on demand.
Because ascended armor is not a consumable item, demand (all other things being equal) will steadily go down as people acquire their permanent set. All other things are not equal, of course – one of the effects on supply is player activity – but in theory, it is not something that will stay increased because of a single drop in cost.
There are new players continuously starting up this game and they too will probably want ascended at one point. It’s like the job market where people come and go from it all the time. It’s not a static number consisting of the same people.
Sorry. I got distracted by the others but thank you for clarifying your intent of that post.
Anet stated that they wanted to give silk value. It had pretty much no use in the came. I believe they kept silk prices high because they felt that ascended armor was to be a long term goal.
I opinion on this is that the price of one material compared to another doesn’t matter.
I can buy that for a dollar. Now I am wondering how the total cost compares for each set. Reviewing the recipes, Tailor requires 36 Damask, Leatherworker 24, and Amorsmith 25. At a glance, it looks like Cloth beats the other two by a landslide, due to Damask.
It was about an 80 gold difference between heavy and light a few weeks ago when I last ran the numbers.
Ayrilana, read what you wrote first.
Unless I’m mistaken, or you just wrote it too quickly without thinking…
Prices could easily increase as a result making you no better off than you were before. This is also neglecting the impact this would have on wool, cotton, and linen scraps.
You also wrote prices “could”. I probably missed that. So you aren’t so sure yourself.
Not saying it won’t have an effect. I think you are pushing the idea too far.
Yeah. I purposely included “could” as there’s no way for us to 100% no for sure. I could very well be wrong and overestimating the number of players who are holding off on crafting ascended for the first time or for additional sets due to the costs.
Those are not level 80 mats though.
They drop from level 80 items. Seriously, you are just cementing the fact that you want to contradict at this point.
Correction: they drop from level 58+ items.
I think I’m being trolled at this point. Please stop derailing the thread.
Yes, they drop from level 80 items, as well as some earlier levels. This has zero relevancy to the topic at hand.
You brought it up originally and I’m arguing against it.
I already explained in detail what I was talking about and you’ve yet to actually argue against it. You are just contradicting things that have nothing to do with my meaning.
See:
Thick Leather Section – 9 copper
Mithril Ore – 36 copper
Elder Wood Log – 14 copper
Silk Scrap – 3 silver, 21 copperI was mistaken to include Orichalcum in my post, as that’s not part of the core component for Spiritwood, Deldrimor, Elonian, or Damask. Those are what’s being discussed in the OP and thus, is what I was referring to.
That is the disparity I was referring to.
Sorry. I got distracted by the others but thank you for clarifying your intent of that post.
Anet stated that they wanted to give silk value. It had pretty much no use in the came. I believe they kept silk prices high because they felt that ascended armor was to be a long term goal.
I opinion on this is that the price of one material compared to another doesn’t matter.
First off, please refresh your memory on supply and demand. It’s an incredibly basic concept and can be learned in under 5 min. The same goes for those that pretty much have no idea what it is.
We do not know the effect demand of silk in reducing the amount of silk need. If we assume the same amount of ascended armor is demanded, then yes, it will cause a decrease in the demand of silk.
However, this change might increase the demand for ascended armor, which cancel out the other effect and won’t decrease the demand of silk anyway.
No. We do not know the exact numbers but based on previous changes in supply and demand of other items, you can make a good estimate on what the changes may look like.
You’re not considering the increase in demand for a lot of the other components such as wool, linen, and cotton. We also saw the price of silk increase by 50% due to the increase demand by everyone wanting to complete that collection.
let’s say ascended armor now cause 80 gold. Your assumption is people would still spend 80 gold to craft ascended armor if amount of silk needed is reduced.
That is the most **** argument I have ever heard. You would be right if the whole GW2 economy revolve around ascended armor. But it don’t.
First off, please refrain from insults which offer nothing constructive to the discussion. Thanks.
You’re being short-sighted in your analysis of what you believe would happen. You’re completely ignoring the fact that there are people who have chosen not to go for ascended because of the costs. There are people that have none and there are being who may want another set whether it has the same stats or different stats.
A decrease in the quantity in the quantity of silk needed would decrease the overall price at first. However, this is where you stop and you don’t look further like so many people. The people that held off on getting their ascended will now be enticed to start going for their ascended now. This pushes the demand for silk even higher without supply changing. This will cause prices to go back up. We saw a 50% increase in silk prices when the collections came out so it’s not far out of the realm of possibility that the same could happen in materials needed were cut.
Another aspect that you’re also missing is the impact that this would have on the other materials such as linen, cotton, and wool. Those would also increase as well driving up the complete cost of the ascended set.
let’s say we decrease the amount of silk needed by half. This person says ascended armor will still cost the same money because silk price will double?
That is kind of pushing it. That’s what this person is basically saying.
ya and dont’ tell me that will cause the lower tier cloth to increase, you can decrease the amount needed for that too.
Or just give us a way to farm cloth directly.
and I’m not really complaining about silk. I’m just discussing people’s logic… Either I’m really stupid, or some people’s logic just dont’ make sense.
I never said that silk prices would double although it is a possibility. I was referring to the total cost having the possibility to increase the costs back up to where they are now if not more. Again, this is all dependent on how much the increase of demand would be which we, as players, do not have access to that information. We can only base our assumptions on previous events.
So essentially you want the needed amount to craft all the lower tiered components to decrease as well to compensate? You do realize that the others only require 2 scraps? You’re pretty much asking for a total revamp of the crafting system just so you can get your ascended, a long term goal by the way, cheaper.
Those are not level 80 mats though.
They drop from level 80 items. Seriously, you are just cementing the fact that you want to contradict at this point.
Correction: they drop from level 58+ items.
I think I’m being trolled at this point. Please stop derailing the thread.
Yes, they drop from level 80 items, as well as some earlier levels. This has zero relevancy to the topic at hand.
You brought it up originally and I’m arguing against it.
So Mr economist. Please tell me why silk price rise in the past week.
Increased demand for ascended armor because of the collections.
so mr economist, decreasing demand wouldn’t cause a change in price. So reducing the amount of silk needed won’t cause a change in the demand of silk.
Anyway I’m done.
You may want to double-check that.
Those are not level 80 mats though.
They drop from level 80 items. Seriously, you are just cementing the fact that you want to contradict at this point.
Correction: they drop from level 58+ items.
So Mr economist. Please tell me why silk price rise in the past week.
Increased demand for ascended armor because of the collections.
Those are not level 80 mats though.
It’s for asura.
it doesn’t even touches the asuras…
A low blow to all asuras
Alright. If this is such a big issue, post a video of a team preventing a point capture by invulnerability skills alone. Due to the short durations and long cool downs of these skills, it would have to be an organized team that does this as randoms in hot join would be unlikely to pull this off. Therefore, you must do this against another organized team.
Gear Shield is a three second block on a twenty second cool down. Sixteen seconds with the Power Wrench trait which most Engineers will take if they are using the Tool Kit. That is not a very long cool down at all.
I know ArenaNet has designed the Engineer to do everything the other professions can do only better, but I think this one skill should prevent capture-point contribution. However that would mean a slight nerf to the Engineer and I know that is against their design philosophy for the profession.
Thanks.
Invulnerable 3 out of 16 seconds? Wow. So OP.
FYI to those in this thread, I’m not really for or against any changes to invulnerability affecting capping. I just don’t see it as an issue which is why I’m posting.
Signet of Stone 6/80 seconds = 7.5% uptime
Endure Pain 4/60 seconds = 6.66% uptime
Sheild 5 on war 3/30 seconds = 10% uptime
Gear Shield 3/16 = 18.75% uptimeNot to mention engi gets 4 other free skills in that one utility slot which is 1/26 skills dedicated to defense while war for example has dedicated 1/17 to get the same skill with almost twice the cool down.
So you’re suggesting that engi should be nerfed because theirs has a longer uptime?
Alright. If this is such a big issue, post a video of a team preventing a point capture by invulnerability skills alone. Due to the short durations and long cool downs of these skills, it would have to be an organized team that does this as randoms in hot join would be unlikely to pull this off. Therefore, you must do this against another organized team.
Gear Shield is a three second block on a twenty second cool down. Sixteen seconds with the Power Wrench trait which most Engineers will take if they are using the Tool Kit. That is not a very long cool down at all.
I know ArenaNet has designed the Engineer to do everything the other professions can do only better, but I think this one skill should prevent capture-point contribution. However that would mean a slight nerf to the Engineer and I know that is against their design philosophy for the profession.
Thanks.
Invulnerable 3 out of 16 seconds? Wow. So OP.
Also:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable
FYI to those in this thread, I’m not really for or against any changes to invulnerability affecting capping. I just don’t see it as an issue which is why I’m posting.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
Most cloth scraps sell for over a silver. Most wood logs sell for over a silver. Iron and Platinum ore sell for over a silver.
That still doesn’t help. You aren’t actually naming items or numbers. How much over a silver? What items? I’m not even sure what point you’re trying to make.
It seems you just want a reason to contradict me.
I assumed that everyone was aware or capable of looking on the TP if they questioned it. You’re arguing that I wasn’t specific or detailed in my post but it was not really necessary as I had provided enough information. Just about all materials used for ascended other than leather and a couple others are well over a silver.
Edit: Bleh. I’ll go ahead and list them out from memory
Iron – 1s
Platinum – 1.5s
Orichalcum – 5s
Soft Log – 1s
Seasoned Log – 1s
Hardened Log – 1.5s
Ancient Log – 4.5 silver (why was this filtered?)
Wool – 3s
Cotton – 4s
Linen – 5s
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
I mean, aside from overabundance meaning it has no real sale value, how would that make it any different from the other level 80 mats. Orichalcum is perhaps the only other one that sells for anything past a silver.
You may want to check the prices again for cloth scraps and ore.
You know, you could just save time and try to tell me what specifically you think is incorrect about what I said with examples, instead of the cryptic, superiority nonsense.
Most cloth scraps sell for over a silver. Most wood logs sell for over a silver. Iron and Platinum ore sell for over a silver.
he said lvl80 materials. I presume he mean the highest tier. You guys probably just have some misunderstanding.
and dont’ bother telling me iron and wood are lvl80 material too because ascended material need them. I understand.
I know what he said but assumed he meant all since this thread is not about tier 6 materials. He did compare silk to the other level 80 mats.
I mean, aside from overabundance meaning it has no real sale value, how would that make it any different from the other level 80 mats. Orichalcum is perhaps the only other one that sells for anything past a silver.
You may want to check the prices again for cloth scraps and ore.
You know, you could just save time and try to tell me what specifically you think is incorrect about what I said with examples, instead of the cryptic, superiority nonsense.
Most cloth scraps sell for over a silver. Most wood logs sell for over a silver. Iron and Platinum ore sell for over a silver.
If the number of silk scraps is reduced, the amount of people attempting to craft the damask bolts increases which then increases the demand for silk scraps. Prices could easily increase as a result making you no better off than you were before. This is also neglecting the impact this would have on wool, cotton, and linen scraps.
Making it so that damask bolts cost the same as the other items is the wrong way to go. The reason why they’re so much more expensive is because of the incredible demand as they’re used for all three crafts. For the longest time, silk armor was the cheapest of the three to craft. I don’t remember seeing an uproar about that disparity. Now that it’s flipped some people are all like “oh **llz nah!”
So how about you post a solution.
For every topic you talked about things expensive, you just push all the problem to demand.
So how about a solution there?
I don’t see a problem so why would i need to post a solution?
Since there is no problem. Why do you say other people’s solution is wrong. You could just tell them silk price isn’t too expensive.
I have and also explained why.
If there was to ever be a change, I would choose Cake’s suggestion above over trying to manipulate the needed materials and their supply.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
Yeah. It’s still profitable to craft and sell it. How much depends on when you place the buy orders and when you place the sell order for the bolt.
If the number of silk scraps is reduced, the amount of people attempting to craft the damask bolts increases which then increases the demand for silk scraps. Prices could easily increase as a result making you no better off than you were before. This is also neglecting the impact this would have on wool, cotton, and linen scraps.
Making it so that damask bolts cost the same as the other items is the wrong way to go. The reason why they’re so much more expensive is because of the incredible demand as they’re used for all three crafts. For the longest time, silk armor was the cheapest of the three to craft. I don’t remember seeing an uproar about that disparity. Now that it’s flipped some people are all like “oh **llz nah!”
So how about you post a solution.
For every topic you talked about things expensive, you just push all the problem to demand.
So how about a solution there?
I don’t see a problem so why would i need to post a solution?
I mean, aside from overabundance meaning it has no real sale value, how would that make it any different from the other level 80 mats. Orichalcum is perhaps the only other one that sells for anything past a silver.
You may want to check the prices again for cloth scraps and ore.
If the number of silk scraps is reduced, the amount of people attempting to craft the damask bolts increases which then increases the demand for silk scraps. Prices could easily increase as a result making you no better off than you were before. This is also neglecting the impact this would have on wool, cotton, and linen scraps.
Making it so that damask bolts cost the same as the other items is the wrong way to go. The reason why they’re so much more expensive is because of the incredible demand as they’re used for all three crafts. For the longest time, silk armor was the cheapest of the three to craft. I don’t remember seeing an uproar about that disparity. Now that it’s flipped some people are all like “oh **llz nah!”
I buy the materials and can only make one per account.
The apples she sold for karma are gone too. (Like that made sense as a design decision).
Yeah. I hated that too. Now i have to spam click to get apples from the other merchant npc.
Alright. If this is such a big issue, post a video of a team preventing a point capture by invulnerability skills alone. Due to the short durations and long cool downs of these skills, it would have to be an organized team that does this as randoms in hot join would be unlikely to pull this off. Therefore, you must do this against another organized team.
Likely gone. The recipe was too confusing for new players.
Joking aside, I don’t see why they had to remove so many things from the starter zones.
You act as if they can spam invulnerability skills which they cannot. Warrior has like 7 seconds of blocks if they chained their skills. Rangers have even less unless I’m completely missing something. I’m not seeing how it could be effective except against people that don’t know what they’re doing.
@Cormac: Oh, really? I misread what Ayrilana said then. Ah well. On the other hand, it’s not like I have a shortage of skill points (each of my 5 mains has more than 450 skill points!), so maybe I’ll just craft it myself if I get one.
I probably should have worded it better. I was referring to selling the goblet, not the bag.
With both Warriors and Rangers able to contest points while not taking power damage (which is the primary source of damage in a spike), it’s possible for a team to contest a point with near-complete safety for extended periods – without any effort or skill besides popping one skill and backing off when it runs out.
And they leave the other two points open to take and hold…
I’ll add that whenever you create something from the mystic forge, it is rarely ever soul-bound. Also, all ascended items are account bound permanently regardless as to whether you equip them or not.
It’s made in the mystic forge. Crafting only came into play for the various components.
Yeah. That will go over well for a game rated for teens.
So essentially the OP wants the complete set right now rather than work for it? That’s how i take their comments about multiple armor boxes in a single track.
Whether it’s repeatable or not does not determine how the loot in each track shoukd be.
Likely been mentioned already but rangers are not that difficult to deal with. Dodge, block, reflect their burst. Quite a number of them have zero armor making it easy to down them in seconds.
You paid for 3 plant nodes and you got 3 plant nodes. You’re upset about the aethetics and it not lookng like a garden patch? Have you not seen how they’ve done all of the other nodes?
Considering it sells for between 7-9 gold (the goblet), i don’t think it’s impossible to get the bag of jewels.
Edit: Edited for clarity.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
What makes you think those changes have an economic reason?
I think they don’t have an economic reason, that’s sort of why I’m asking.
They certainly have no good economic reason for players to do them. The cost of crafting for Alpha Crafter for example, and the reward? Those are the most expensive 5 ectos, ever.
I would say that Economics was not the driving force behind many of these changes, but I still think they’re good changes.
So just to clarify…. You think that having achievements being based on pretty harsh rng or being subject to price gouging via speculators is a good thing?
They’re long term goals that you fulfill by playing the game. If people want to grind them out to complete them in the short term then they should realize the implications of this and accept it.
And that’s one of the reasons why the game is known for poor reward structure. It’s not a good thing. Accepting it is basically admitting failure on that front.
So having long term goals with rewards is poor reward structure? I guess having long term goals is a complete failure.
@Ayrilana, I now added the details of whether you have to acquire the recipe or you can discover it (under Even more details)
Regarding the fear that this will reduce prices dramatically, I tend to disagree as there is only a very little number of users compared to the whole guild wars population so I don’t think the website will have such a big influence.
If I made this website, it was first for myself at the beginning (to have a bit of fun coding) but then I thought that it could help semi-casual players like me who are trying to make money with crafting. Prior to this, I really didn’t know what items to craft (there are so many!) so I just crafted to reach level 400 and never used that as a source of income.
Now, this is (again, I am speaking only for myself) a nice alternative way.
You underestimate how slow those markets can be and how quickly a small number of players can crash it.
It’s one of the main reasons that a lot of us don’t release stuff like this. Of course, the feasts and such will likely not be influenced much since there’s a decent sized cost to get the recipe and then additional time to recover the cost before you can start making profit. All of which depends on how quickly the feasts are sold and how many players choose to participate.
Edit:
I’ve personally watched several items that i was crafting for profit become unprofitable. Sometimes it happened over the course of a few weeks and other times in a matter of a few hours. It all depended on the velocity of sales for the item and how many people participated.
I’ve seen players try to sell 25+ of a slow moving item only to be undercut by someone else. They then slowly drive the price down eliminating profit. The more people that do this, the quicker that this happens.
I’ve also gotten annoyed at times to purposely crash the prices for some items to force everyone to dump what they have, and forget about it, to then later on move the price back out to making profit again. Sometimes that works and other times it doesn’t.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
What makes you think those changes have an economic reason?
I think they don’t have an economic reason, that’s sort of why I’m asking.
They certainly have no good economic reason for players to do them. The cost of crafting for Alpha Crafter for example, and the reward? Those are the most expensive 5 ectos, ever.
I would say that Economics was not the driving force behind many of these changes, but I still think they’re good changes.
So just to clarify…. You think that having achievements being based on pretty harsh rng or being subject to price gouging via speculators is a good thing?
They’re long term goals that you fulfill by playing the game. If people want to grind them out to complete them in the short term then they should realize the implications of this and accept it.
It’s no where as simple as you’re suggesting by just doing a copy and paste.
Unfortunately quite a lot of those need recipes such as the feasts while many others are very slow moving. Consider all of the people who will see this and try to make easy gold, and their tendency to flood the market while having undercutting wars with each other, I don’t see many of the larger profit margin items lasting much longer.
AP awards for that set are currently where they should be. It’s an exclusive set and making it easier would remove that.
It’s better to save the gold to buy one than roll the dice and hope to get one from the forge.
Due to the changes in April, where they locked players out of so many things, it’s going to be very difficult for anyone below level 80 to get a group. It gets even worse the lower in level you are. A level 35 character pre-April update is much stronger than a post April character.
Players are free to include whatever requirements they want when they create their groups. A lot of players don’t like carrying others so they put those requirements to help minimize that situation. If you don’t meet those requirements then start your own group. It’s that simple.
unfortunately if you don’t use dulfy you will never finish those collections. the TP players use dulfy to buy up every item you will need and relist it for 100x the price. If you aren’t fast enough using dulfy then those collections will be out of reach for you.
No. The people that speculate and buy up items do so before it’s listed on Dulfy. Prices for everything went up well before they were listed there. Players are already speculating on the other items currently not part of collections.
You won’t make any gold if you wait for it to be posted on Dulfy. She often relies on others so there’s normally a substantial delay that could impact on whether you could flip anything for profits.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
Worked fine for me earlier today. Try the others as it’s a waste to spend pristine spores on them.
r u engi?
/15 chars
Y u talk lik dis?
No. I don’t even have an engi but I do have all of the others.
This can help ya decide.
http://www.gw2crafts.net/Maybe read the posts first?
Maybe look at he link, it gives a run down on buying and what the costs will be.
Maybe check out the suggestions before being rude.
He’s trying to craft ascended armor, not level a crafting profession…
I love it. I vote for it to stay. It promotes situational awareness, positioning, and learning to use stability.
They won’t refund you for that. It’s been attempted already.