Guild Wars 2

Actually, it’s not a fallacy as I was not using it as a complete argument. My point, which I thought I made, was to get you to think of what impact that would have on players if they were able to have everything they wanted right this instant. You could then apply that to what would happen if everyone could get precursors and then their legendaries much quicker. That was the point.

As for the rest of your post, read what I wrote again. I already addressed it knowing you would go this direction.

Edit: Typos and more typos

xev.9476:

Ayrilana.1396:

snip

Give me a break. I didn’t state that you were against anything. I asked a sincere question because you seemed to be arguing against the addition of new content. Your clarification that you’re simply against expansion content is helpful, but still silly given that it doesn’t incorporate suggestions to give content more longevity via better designed encounters, varied PvP modes, etc. Another poster noted above that replay value is key. So, sure, lots of expansions have content that can be blown through in quick order. But it’s not that people are just asking for an expansion, but expansion content with longevity and replay value. Given that GW2 seems to be hemorrhaging veteran players, I’d say there are excellent reasons to think shabby LS content (which does nothing for PvP or WvW players) is insufficient.

Then it’s a misunderstanding on both of out parts. I was primarily arguing why an expansion was not a good idea. I wasn’t arguing what could be done better. That is more deserving of a separate thread.

At this point, adding new maps won’t really help WvW or PvP. For PvP, we need new modes such as CTF, assault/defend, last man standing, etc. Just look at FPS games and what modes they use and then incorporate those into this game. For WvW, something needs to be done about match ups and ways to make WvW more engaging rather than ball up into a zerg.

xev.9476:

Ayrilana.1396:

Please don’t resort to strawman arguments please. Nowhere did I state that I did not want content. I just don’t think expansions are a good idea with this particular game. There are other ways of releasing content.

You just want all of the content at once. That is all. Once you’ve exhausted all of that content within a matter or months and become bored, we’ll be right back here where we are now.

I asked a question – if you were arguing against new content. That’s not a strawman, it’s a question, and I’d wager a good one since several people have pointed out how silly your claim that people exhaust content in a month or so is.

You stated that I was against new content because I did not feel an expansion was necessary. There are other wYs of releasing content such as the living story. Almost nobody would agree with not wanting new content. You completely ignored this and made the assumption that I did not want new content as a means to argue Gainst my post. That’s a strawman of at the very least flawed reasoning.

How quickly doing players currently finish content in the living story? A large number do to within a matter or days. Let’s assume we get an expansion that is 30 times as large. Those players would finish it in a month or so. 60 times as large? A couple months. You greatly underestimate how quickly players go through content.

Nerelith.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

So what happens to the player base when they have exhausted all of the new content from an expansion within a month or two, like they do for each living story episode but in days, and then have nothing to do for the next year or two until the next expansion?

I have heard this false argument for some time now. That " New content In an expansion is exhausted in a month or two."

here’s a thought, are you still playing characters that came with the game at launch? Then yoiu have not exhausted that content have you?

If a new profession or two is released, you know when that content is exhausted? when Players stop playing that profession. If they release a new race or two, do you know when that content is exhausted? When players stop playing THAT content.

When an expansion is released, quests can be completed, and maps can be completed. So that content may be exhausted. The problem is, that there are many players that do not see " a new peofession" as content that can ONLY be exhausted when players stop playing it.

You expand the game, you give players NEW ways to play the fame. THAT content can ONLY be exhausted when people stop playing it. New professions, new races, new weapons and skills, can never be exhausted, until people stop playing them.

Nope. I’ll use another word then since you’re confused. Bored. How’s that? You can only play something for so long until it’s appeal diminishes. That doesn’t mean that you completely stop playing. Look at the attitudes of everyone that wants an expansion. Sure f they haven’t exhausted existing content then they don’t need an expansion?

xev.9476:

Ayrilana.1396:

So what happens to the player base when they have exhausted all of the new content from an expansion within a month or two, like they do for each living story episode but in days, and then have nothing to do for the next year or two until the next expansion?

Are you offering this up as some kind of weird counter argument against expansions? Are you trying to argue against new content?! People have already grown weary of the same old content (they’ve been weary for a good while now), so I imagine if people exhaust new expansion content we’d have a situation somewhat similar to what we see today. However, major complaints are aimed at the quality of content currently in circulation, e.g. poorly designed dungeon encounters, stale PvP, WvW, etc. If ANet stepped up their game and started producing, for instance, multiple game modes for PvP and dungeon encounters that didn’t all involve 5 zerkers stacking, then I’d wager there’d be a significant decrease in player malaise and frustration, and an increase in content longevity.

I think an expansion is absolutely necessary for GW2, especially for those of us who loathe the LS. I hate the small piecemeal pace of it – I don’t want a single new map (or an ugly rework of an existing one – I’m looking at you, Kessex Hills) every 6 months or so, I want a whole series of zones to explore (please gawd give us Cantha and Elona at some point!) complete with new dungeons, factions, etc. Part of the charm of expansions, at least for me, is that it gives games a freshness, it makes the game feel shiny and new again, and I’d very much like that for GW2.

Please don’t resort to strawman arguments please. Nowhere did I state that I did not want content. I just don’t think expansions are a good idea with this particular game. There are other ways of releasing content.

You just want all of the content at once. That is all. Once you’ve exhausted all of that content within a matter or months and become bored, we’ll be right back here where we are now.

Ohoni.6057:

Or make it so that people have access to every skin in the wardrobe and ascended was free.

Think about the impact that would have on the game.

No, we aren’t really talking about that, I don’t think it would be a good idea. We’re talking about making Precursors a kitteneaper.

Actually, it’s the same thing as what you’re talking about but on the more extreme end of the spectrum that your precursor idea is leaning towards.

You do not realize how important precursors are to the economy and what would happen if they were cheaper. You’d either have all of the other components rise up in price depending on how much cheaper they got or you get to the point that everyone now has the precursor they want to prices in everything plummet.

I still astounds me that the same people post on her wanting precursors to be cheaper or easier to get but completely ignore the impact that this would have. Did you honestly not see what happened when the demand for legendary weapons increased back in April? Do honestly not think that demand for legendary weapons would increase if precursors would be cheaper or easier to get? What impact do you think would happen to all related materials needed to get these?

People can just farm them? We saw how well that went when prices rose over 50% in April. So people will have to farm 2,000 tier six materials including those required for the legendary gifts? Yeah, farming cores and lodestones would be fun. They can just farm tier 5 materials and promote, you say? Promotions require 50 tier 5 components, skill points, and crystalline dust which would also go further up in price due to its other uses.

So let’s assume that each promotion yields 10 tier 6 on average. It doesn’t but I’m going to assume it does. This means you would need to farm 1,250 of each of the tier 5 materials excluding dust. You just went from needing to farm 1,750 (excluding dust) to 8,750. Awesome!

People can just farm gold and buy the materials? Yeah, well they can do the same currently for precursors.

They can just increase the drop rates of all mats to compensate for demand? We go back to the first part of my post where everyone can now quickly get their legendary weapons causing demand to fall. All related prices are low so there’s less incentive to farm because what would you spend your gold on now? Gem store items? Well the exchange rate would quickly increase. Other items? Well gold is now more difficult to farm as a lot of materials now have little value.

Legendary weapons are too much of an integral part of the economy and changes to it could have a devastating impact. They’re better off creating completely new legendary weapons that use separate components and allow players to craft the precursors for those.

So what happens to the player base when they have exhausted all of the new content from an expansion within a month or two, like they do for each living story episode but in days, and then have nothing to do for the next year or two until the next expansion?

FrostSpectre.4198:

Posts by Ayrilana very obviously kept read my past topics and not this one…

Even if I admitted that: I was mentally disappointed on how builds other than DPS and DPS Support couldn’t create difference on results.

No. I only used one post from a previous thread for reasons that I have already explained why.

What you’re trying to do is buff content so that people who do CC and Support can have more of a role. You’re not trying to only buff the difficulty. Just look at your first post of this thread. In fact, look at the very first sentence.

Here’s a screenshot as I don’t feeling like going through the effort to quote just that on my phone.

Maybe they’re intentionally trying to make getting ascended cheaper because we’re getting another tier by the end of the year.

Ohoni.6057:

There’s a difference between arguing for change that betters the game overall, and arguing for change that benefits the few who feel Entitled to a fancy Greatsword.

Making more players happy than it makes upset is bettering the game. Making precursors more common would make more people happy than it would upset, it would better the game.

Or make it so that people have access to every skin in the wardrobe and ascended was free.

Think about the impact that would have on the game.

Nightshade.5924:

Ayrilana.1396:

John Smith.4610:

John Smith.4610:

As a quick aside. Gems in the currency exchange are finite. You may buy gems with real money to your hearts content, but if you don’t put any of them gems into the currency exchange the currency exchange’s stock of gems never changes.

John Smith.4610:

Think of it this way. The government can print as much money as they want, that doesn’t mean your bank account has access to that money. The currency exchange does not have access to gem creation. It has a limited stock that players add and subtract from.

Ok. So I go ahead and drop $10 and get 800 gems. I then take my new gems and turn them into gold. Wait…

The exchange rate I wrote down earlier today was 100 gems turning into 12.16 gold. So 800 gems thus gets me 97.28 gold.

Now the last time I saw a gold spam it was for something like 100 gold for $10. HMMM.

So if I’m willing to take a risk, be stupid, or whatever you want to call it, I can get More gold from the spammers than I can from ANET.

Interesting, Yes? So I’ve said this before… WHY would I EVER trade gems for gold? There’s no profit in it for me. In fact, one heck of a loss as the system sits.

Question: What’s to stop ANET from dumping, oh say, One Million Gems into the pot?

Well?

Was there a point to your post?

John Smith.4610:

John Smith.4610:

As a quick aside. Gems in the currency exchange are finite. You may buy gems with real money to your hearts content, but if you don’t put any of them gems into the currency exchange the currency exchange’s stock of gems never changes.

John Smith.4610:

Think of it this way. The government can print as much money as they want, that doesn’t mean your bank account has access to that money. The currency exchange does not have access to gem creation. It has a limited stock that players add and subtract from.

Another feature I hope for is that they do a transaction history in that when I sell 1,000 of something for let’s say 5 silver, I do not see 10+ pages of of random amounts being sold.

There’s a difference between inflation and a shift in supply/demand.

Also, Nightshade, how are you calculating inflation?

Yeah. I’m just going to ask for a refund for the reasons stated about why it’s flawed. I finally got to use it last night and the freezes were annoying.

I wish they would fix it so it’d be similar to the others (i.e. No flaws) but considering how long it’s been in the game in its current state, I don’t think it’s a high priority for them.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Ayrilana.1396:

I really should just create a thread with all of John’s posts referenced and organized.

Might keep these types of very long threads built on complete incorrect analysis of the economy from popping up ….. but I doubt it.

It was more for our benefit so that we wouldn’t have search for a specific post of his but instead just a link to the thread.

Well then I want to wield two great swords.

No need to resort to insults please. You’ll just end up getting your thread locked.

I have read your posts in this thread and 99% of my posts have been about what is in this thread. I only quoted one of your posts from a previous thread because I felt it helps to provide context into what you’re trying to suggest. Based on what I read in this thread, I felt that post was applicable.

True, you stated that all builds will be able to finish all content which was a change from your previous post except my most recent post clarified where I was going with that particular argument that you missed or haven’t realized.

Let’s say that we get an enemies type that is 75% resistant to conditions. What impact would this have in condition damage players trying to do content that contain this? They’ll find that their build is less desired. Sure they can complete the content just fine but they’re no longer effective. Reverse it and give an enemies type 75% resistance to physical damage. You know have condition damage players more desired for content that involves this content type. Of course not all content would focus solely on this enemies type so in either scenario, at least one or two slots would be reserved for the build type that was most effective.

I’m really hoping that you’re seeing where I am coming from. Your suggestions are making CC and Support builds more effective or desired at the expense of DPS builds. If you gave an enemy type a lot of movement skills similar to the moa in Dry Top, and have it so that it’s just easier for players to have someone that specializes in CC, then you’re causing players to have a CC specialized player in their group to minimize the time and pain they would have had without one.

This game was built around all classes/players providing all three forms (DPS, support, CC). Them working together and covering each other’s weaknesses is what makes groups effective. Support and CC is less important in this game compared to DPS. I am in no way saying that they should be ignored but just that they should not be a focal point for a person to pursue over DPS.

I’m not going to address your repetitive paragraph that you have throughout your recent 2-3 posts as you misunderstood my arguments and I believe the first part of this post should have clarified that for you.

In regards to your statement about GW2 trinity not being about roles, I never said that it was but said you were pushing towards that direction with your suggestions. Meh, the rest is just repeating the same thing so I won’t address the rest as well.

I completely support adding mechanics that require CC and Support. However, this must not come at the expense of other builds which are then made less effective. It should not come to the point where players are better off getting someone in their party with a build that specializes in CC or Support rather than DPS that could also provide it. CC and support is more of a secondary focus than a primary.

He entire living story is easy including the related achievements for the instances. You want to be able to steamroll through it like the personal story? You’re greatly exaggerating the difficulty of the living story instances.

Do you read your own posts?

The trinity system in other games had players use specific roles to do content. In GW2, you’re forcing that system onto players by having tem need to be support, CC, or DPS. Currently all players can perform all three but you’re trying to make it so that enemies are buffed in such a way that one type is more effective than the other. At the end of your original post, you state that players are better if they have every role present.

Just for clarification, build is the same thing as role. Players bring a specific build to do a specific thing. Players have a DPS build to do DPS and players do a staff camping cleric guardian with a healing build to do healing support. These players use these builds to specialize in one particular aspect. How is that not a role? I’ll stress again that builds are roles. There can be multiple builds that fit within a role.

One example you have was that husks are best dealt with by taking condition damage. You want more of this throughout the game. You give enemies devaestatibg attacks where it would be very beneficial to have someone in a healing/support role (build). Do you not see what you’re trying to do? You’re crafting situations where one role/build is more preferred over another. Players are then forced to spread out the composition of their groups to encompass all three of the roles (builds) to be effective/efficient.

You say that pure DPS roles (builds) will still be able to do all content. Well all other roles (builds) currently can still do all content so long as they do enough damage. If they’re still doing Damage like you said (I did not say they wouldn’t) then they’ll get credit. If they’re in a group with other players in evenly split roles (builds) like you want, they’ll get credit even easier.

Income was not the sole argument of my post. The game cannot last large gaps of time without influxes of new content. There is no grind to keep players occupied. You’ll then have people who stop playing the game and move onto something else. When an expansion is released, you’ll have people for a month or two before they exhaust that content and leave.

You’re also forcing all players to now have to pay to get access to new content rather than enjoy it for free via the living story.

Most classes have direct access to DPS, support, and CC. What you’re attempting to do is shift the everything so that having support and CC is now more required.

I found something:

FrostSpectre.4198:

• “Play how I want” would be Solo only. Players can no longer decide what build they use, since it could be incompactible with the group.

• Group events would be slightly harder, depending on the content, if there’s not atleast 1 of each from the Trinity.

At least one of each from the trinity. Sounds awfully like roles to me.

In your posts, you comment about how husks make having berserkers useless for as you need condition damage. You state that this kind of thing should be spread across all old PvE content. What this does is force players to have to have players to perform that specific role.

Roles and builds are the same thing. What you’re trying to do is make it so that specific build are required.

Trinity system does not exist in the game. I think that you’re confusing what’s in the game with what a trinity system really is. Also, you’re buffing enemies so that people that want to play a specific role can do so. How is that not trying to introduce the trinity system into the game?

Except your suggestions would make it almost necessary to have those type of roles. Those roles of support, CC, and damage can be performed by all members at the same time. You don’t need to waste a slot for someone to specifically do that role.

Oh. The GW2 trinity was more of a joke at the expense of the typIcal MMO trinity. Nobody ever tries to invite players to groups based on those roles. It’s only the people that are stuck in the trinity mindset, and unwilling to accept that this games does not follow that, who try to do that.

Many of us love GW2 because of the lack of a trinity system. What you’re attempting to do is bring it back. No thanks.

Sounds like the OP is trying to sneak the trinity system into this game.

I’m hoping for better filters.

I just got one a few hours ago. Have ANET make them tradeable and you can have it for free.

I suggested a flat rate when they were first released. Haven’t really heard any official comment about it sense. I’m thinking they may have a specific reason why they won’t do it.

Probably. I must have miscalculated my gold per hour back when champ farming became the thing. I seem to remember getting only 4 gold on average.

You also left out karka farming.

Compare the amount of time you had spent doing each episode’s content so far this season and compare it to how long it would have taken you if everything to this point was released at once? I’m pretty sure you would spend the same amount of time either way if not less.

The issue with it being released all at once in an expansion is that you have a larger gap between content releases. The larger each expansion is, the larger the gap between expansions will be. Anet risks losing players the longer the gap gets resulting in less income. I’ve explained this already in a previous post within this thread.

Expansions are not feasible for GW2 specifically because of how it was designed. It is not like other MMO’s. They also are most likely not able to to both an expansion and do living story updates.

FGS champ train. Is WP cost included in the gold/hour calculation?

Huh? I thought all you had to do was pull the cord at the same time and then you get 45 sec to do the right emote.

bluberblasen.9684:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

bluberblasen.9684:

Hi,
I’m a poor player in this game.. but 120 gold is nothing…
:-)

Hi,
I’m a poor player in this game.. but 120 gold is nothing if you farm endlessly

Fixed that for you.

are u kidding ?
i play 0-1h a day, i dont farm!

all i do is every day AC path 1 ( ~ 15 minutes ) = 1.5 gold ( ~ with drops and 26 silver reward ~ 2 Gold )
the other 45 Minutes i do WvW or Spvp

1 day = 2 Gold
100 days = 200 Gold
300 days = 600 Gold

…. You see u can have 120 Gold without playing much, without farming…

ahhh. Sorry for my english

That’s a playstyle issue and not an issue with the price.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Ayrilana.1396:

Like dungeon armor is tied to doing dungeons, ascended armor is tied to crafting, and so on. None of these are wrong. Saying that cultural armor just not be tied to just purchasing with gold would be no different than me saying that dungeon armor should not be tied to do just dungeons (pvp rewards excluded).

Getting 120 gold is fairly easy if you’re willing to put the effort and time to do so. If you don’t have the time then all that means is that it will take a little longer. Tier 3 cultural is supposed to be a gold sink and something for people to work towards if that’s the look that they want. Not everything in the game should be made easy to get which would be the case if you tied it to map completion.

Not sure if this directly addressed to me or not but I am going to assume it is since I mentioned something about map completion. So it’s clear, I don’t think it needs to be changed… I am just pointing out that there is really only one way to get money reliably and that is to farm for it. As an aside, there is literally not much easier to do than farming in this game, it simply requires patience for repetition and time invested (which for some people time to be able to play is very limited). If it were up to me, I would lock all of the “cool” looking skins behind challenging content versus easily repeatable tasks or at the very least have them tied to a set of heroic “quests” to obtain them. If you can’t tell I am very anti-farming, not because it’s too hard but because it’s quite literally the most mind numbing task I can think of to spend my time in a video game (obviously this is just my opinion and I do not expect others to feel similarly).

Yeah it was. I’d be completely on board for armor skins locked behind challenging content such as Liadri.

Edit: Typo. I blame autocorrect.

Like dungeon armor is tied to doing dungeons, ascended armor is tied to crafting, and so on. None of these are wrong. Saying that cultural armor just not be tied to just purchasing with gold would be no different than me saying that dungeon armor should not be tied to do just dungeons (pvp rewards excluded).

Getting 120 gold is fairly easy if you’re willing to put the effort and time to do so. If you don’t have the time then all that means is that it will take a little longer. Tier 3 cultural is supposed to be a gold sink and something for people to work towards if that’s the look that they want. Not everything in the game should be made easy to get which would be the case if you tied it to map completion.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

bluberblasen.9684:

Hi,
I’m a poor player in this game.. but 120 gold is nothing…
:-)

Hi,
I’m a poor player in this game.. but 120 gold is nothing if you farm endlessly

Fixed that for you.

You can make 10 gold in a matter of hours. Spread that across 12 days and how much gold do you have? How about 5 gold per day over 24 days?

Making it so that crafting precursors is locked behind time gates or that it becomes easier to get one does not solve the problem. It will likely make things worse. A couple suggestions posted essentially put a price ceiling on precursors.

Gold is easy to get in this game. Players can make 10 gold a day very easily. You can buy that armor set in under two weeks.

Expansions are pointless. How often do you see them released? You don’t see them released annually for sure. What will happen is that players finish an expansion within a month or two and then have nothing to do until the next one is released.

Player activity would drop and result in less people purchasing gem store items. Less purchases means less money Anet receives to fund their expansions. This could result in a downward spiral. I’m not saying that it would but it has the potential.

This game has relatively little grind to keep players occupied compared to other MMO’s so it doesn’t have the durability to withstand large durations of time without new content.

Looks like I’ll be farming on my Ele from now on after the update for cloth scraps. Anyone foresee a price hike in cloth scrap prices?

Edit: On second thought, after thinking about it, I’m assuming everyone will immediately switch to light armor classes and flood the market with scraps. Looks like prices will go the opposite direction.

Such as master kits primarily give elder wood, mithril ore, and silk scraps (on 80 gear). They improve the chance of getting items from the next tier.

I could also be mistaken and it refers to ectos only. I never really paid much attention to this or tried to keep track.

Yeah. That’s one of the things I would look at this weekend. I know that I got them pretty often over several attempts last weekend but of course we all know that that doesn’t really mean much.

You could also take a look at farming those spices such as chili pepper and such. I was planning to look into how feasible that is this weekend. I’m hoping the nodes are like those for ancient wood and ori ore in that there’s a relatively small, finite number of locations that they could spawn making searching for them less of a pain.

Meh. I bought the frost one last night before I logged off. I guess I’ll test it out tonight and determine whether it’s a hassle to use. If it is, I’ll just ask for a refund so I can get one of the other ones.

Thank you for the responses.

I’m basically looking towards animation speeds. I’ve heard some of the tools are actually pretty slow and take up more time than the orichalcum versions.

I’m hesitant about the MF as I’ve heard the stories that people have sunk more than the cost of a precursor and received nothing. There are also the people that got one off their first forge. It’s all a gamble and it’s really up to you to decide if you’d want to take that risk. This is not to say that you can’t do both either.

There are multiple uses for the term rarity when used to describe its impact on prices. It could be the rarity of the legendary compared to other legendaries or the rarity of the legendary compared to other weapons such as exotics, rares, and so forth. It’s not a “one or the other” type of situation.

Rarity also is not the only factor in what determines price as well.

Edit: This post was in response to the argument that one person’s usage of rarity was incorrect compared to another’s.

Elric Of Melnibone.4781:

Having to hide all the lower level recipes EVERY time you launch the game is a royal pain. Preferably each character would ‘memorize’ what craft levels have been hidden, but at least the account should. Finding all of the time gated crafting every day is tedious.

What would REALLY be nice is listing things I have recently crafted at the top or having a sort option based on last craft time and the ability to hide anything not crafted in the last XX days.

Or a favorites section up at the top.

One method would be to farm the tier 6 materials again and sell them when you’re ready to buy a precursor. Those materials would likely go up in price as well along with precursors. This would protect your gold earned so that it maintains it’s value relative to precursor pricing.

There are still risks though.

Edit: To add more clarification, let’s assume I started to farm for a precursor earlier this year in February. I manage to get 100 of each of the materials by the end of March and sell them bringing by earnings to X amount of gold. The April patch hits causing prices to increase and my gold earned so far lost purchasing power as a result. Had I decided to keep the materials until I was ready to buy a precursor, I would have received more gold in relation to the cost of the precursor.

Hopefully this made sense. Like in the real world, the worst thing you can do with excess money is to let it sit in the bank doing nothing.