Guild Wars 2

MacLeod.4208:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’ll stress my point again. Just because something doesn’t affect someone else, doesn’t mean that it is right. Once again, just because something doesn’t affect someone else, doesn’t mean that it is right…

Here is the thing…the only people who get to decide what is right and what is wrong in this game are the developers. They obviously think it is okay to portal through a JP. That means “it is right”.

Just to be clear, the only person, or people, who get to decide right and wrong in a particular universe is the creator(s) of that universe. In this case it is ANet’s development team that created the universe, so they are the only ones who have a right to say something in their universe is right or wrong. They say it is right, so it is right.

Either in that same post you partially quoted or another I did say that it was ultimately up to the devs.

Analogies do not have to be 100% exact to prove a point. So many people seem to be missing that and attack minor detail which have nothing to do with the argument that is being made. I seriously doubt there can ever be an analogy made that 100% fits what it is being use towards.

I personally have hung out at the puzzle and gave advice on how to pass certain parts as well as personally show them how. I even rez those that fall. You’re doing someone a disservice by encouraging people to take the easy way out to completing something. This can be an achievement, a goal, or whatever.

Braxis.8396:

Ayrilana you again think only about it from your point of view, try think as one of my friend who tried make puzzle for 2 hours, and when he almost reached chest did get d/c during jump (died) and had to do everything again. Mesmer portals were add to game because game makers did know that many people will have to big problem to make it on their own.

That’s an assumption why they were added. Just because someone struggles on something doesn’t mean they can then justify abusing something. If people could attack Mai without taking damage by using a terrain exploit, would they be justified since they struggled?

So if a Mesmer can create a portal from the beginning of a dungeon to the end, then that is okay and working as intended?

It’s not known if the devs intended for players to use portals to bypass entire jumping puzzles. Silence on their part doesn’t mean they support it nor does it mean they don’t. This is far from being a pressing issue but I thought I would bring it up.

I find it wrong to skip entire content and that’s my personal belief. I also believe it was not the dev’s intention to have mesmers portal people to the end of jumping puzzles. I think of the portal abuse to be the same as exploiting although not as extreme. Think of it as a felony compared to a misdemeanor.

Thank you to everyone for expressing your views on this topic.

No. It would at the very worst case be account bound but that’s only if the end item is supposed to be so. For example, people can use their precursor, create a legendary, and be able to sell it. Using the mystic forge creates a new item.

I personally prefer guardian when I mass farm. They have good survivability and the ability to quickly pull mobs to them for a quick kill.

It really comes down to what you plan to farm, your play style, and which class you enjoy playing the most. I know that’s what you don’t want to hear but it’s true.

Alternatively you can do a bunch of hearts (quests) and not collect the reward in the mail.

You may want to check into each class’ respective subforums. I think all of them have a sticky dedicated for builds. They may be outdated due to the recent revamp though. Anyways, I thought I would mention that since you may get a quicker response or find what you’re looking for.

Good luck!

So jumping puzzles aside, exploiting the game in PvE is okay then? It’s optional since you can choose not to do it. It doesn’t affect other players experience. You’re being selfish for saying they can’t exploit. Maybe they can’t play often because of a condition or lack the time to play and don’t want to be left behind.

So I guess those reasons justify it?

SkyShroud.2865:

Ayrilana.1396:

How is exactly not wanting portals being used to trivialize OPTIONAL content being selfish and anti-social?

Ayrilana.1396:

So you’d rather make a personal attack on me rather than make a constructive argument against my suggestion?

LoL~~ that escalated quickly.

The posts were deleted. That’s why it doesn’t make much sense.

CelebrityX.7014:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’ll stress my point again. Just because something doesn’t affect someone else, doesn’t mean that it is right. Once again, just because something doesn’t affect someone else, doesn’t mean that it is right.

It also doesn’t make it wrong because you say it’s wrong. I think the final say on the matter is ANET’s and so far by their non-action I can gather they don’t see this as a problem or they see it as working as intended.

Yes. Ultimately it is up to Anet to decide what is right or wrong in the game. However, non-action doesn’t necessarily mean that is their stance. We’ll never know until they give an official stance on the issue.

Yes everything in this game is optional. In fact, everything in life is optional. You always have a choice. Does this justify that things that are wrong can be done? No.

Mesmer portals in jumping puzzles likely has not been dealt with compared to exploits as the end results are different. They have more important things. However, this doesn’t mean that Mesmer portals is what they intended or using them to bypass content is right.

I’ll stress my point again. Just because something doesn’t affect someone else, doesn’t mean that it is right. Once again, just because something doesn’t affect someone else, doesn’t mean that it is right. I knew I should’ve been more clearer in my example since people would focus on the exploit part. That’s my fault in that matter.

The reward is irrelevant in my point. It was the action or means to get to the objective, whether it be gear or the end of a jumping puzzle, which I was stressing. I made it a point to state that everything was for personal use so the argument about the shoulderpads being sold for 3 silver doesn’t apply. Please correct me if you feel it should.

The thing is that jumping puzzles are optional and you don’t have to do them. There’s many people who play this game that have not set foot into a jumping puzzle.

I disagree with the logic that just because it doesn’t affect everyone else that means it is right. Let’s suppose I just started the game. I found an exploit to level to 80 in under an hour and a way to get exotic armor from dungeons without any effort. I also manage to exploit and get a ton of laurels to get my ascended gear. I also decide that I want a few legendaries for personal use so I use bots to farm the materials for me.

Since me doing this doesn’t affect others, then it must be okay? I hardly doubt many people would see it that way. Just because something doesn’t affect other players does not make it right.

I agree that portals should be allowed but it’s uses within the jumping puzzle should be limited so it’s not abused.

So you’d rather make a personal attack on me rather than make a constructive argument against my suggestion?

How is exactly not wanting portals being used to trivialize OPTIONAL content being selfish and anti-social?

With the release of the newest jumping puzzle, this issue has become more apparent. People are using jumping puzzles to trivialize the content. For instance, with the new jumping puzzle a Mesmer can create a portal at the chest, wp, and then run within range to port everyone to the very end.

Can we get a debuff while inside that prevents portaling or at least reduces its range? How about having no wp’s close to a jumping puzzle? How about making it so that the portal skill cancels and is forced into cooldown when you wp?

DeWolfe.2174:

Everyone who say’s a puzzle is easy, is a shorty. Completely different experience at full height. This one is too hard to not have it be segmented. Also, drops are insta-kills which I believe I’ve fallen from higher.

Just because you find something difficult, doesn’t mean other will as well. I personally found it very easy. The only real difficult part was near the end when going for the diving goggles. Trying to jump up those small rocks right before the levitating blue platforms near the end was a pain.

Weirwynn.2390:

On my server (Fort Aspenwood,) we usually see the queen spawned once a day so the world-boss zerg can get their bonus chest, so seems it’s working as intended there?

I’m not against it being a little easier though—but how big is a “smaller group?” It takes a fair number of players to take the lower two camps.

Maybe a dozen or fewer. That’s why the hour capture time would help otherwise it’s impossible.

I could’ve swore you had to complete all of the events for the meta to spawn him.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/In_Pursuit_of_Knowledge

dulfy.1493:

Ayrilana.1396:

So does this count as an extra dive for those who are still bugged with one missing?

This should count as #38. Which bugged one are you talking about? If you are thinking of the Metrica Province one, it got fixed a while back and should allow you to 38/38 it now

Oh was that the one that was bugged? I believe I made the round to every diving location in March and couldn’t figure out which one didn’t give me credit. Great thakittens been fixed. Thanks!

I believe one of the devs stated that the meta for the queen was added to give people a reason to go to Southsun Cove. It’s still as dead as ever there since the meta is a pain to do without a zerg.

I suggest that once you claim a camp, it remains claimed for one hour. This gives adequate time for smaller groups to claim each camp and spawn the Queen. Once the queen has been defeated, of it players fail, all camps become contested.

Try it out for a couple weeks on a trial basis. The changes can be reverted if the results are not satisfactory.

Wake up about 30 minutes early and do the puzzle before work.

It’ll be empty by next week. What’s the rush?

So does this count as an extra dive for those who are still bugged with one missing?

So you want arrows pointing where to go?

kNite.6504:

LordByron.8369:

also for a bug you get vials at jade maw…disregarding your level .-.

what do you mean? do you get guaranteed vials at jade maw?

What they mean is that for levels 1-9 you can only get vials. For levels 10-19 you can only get globs. For levels 20+ you can only get shards.

The bug is that for maw this is ignored and you only get vials. It is not a guaranteed drop.

Are you sure they’re bots?

Hopefully the end isn’t within portal range. Looks like a fun puzzle!

For Unfriendly Skies you have to beat him on your first attempt in under 15 minutes. This means no wiping. The key to doing this is all in getting Mai’s shield down as quickly as possible.

Personal Space has you avoid only Horrik’s attacks during the cannon phase. He does not do the shots that are blue. Walking over his aoe will cause you to fail as well. A lot of people take maybe a tick or two of damage and don’t realize it which is why they keep failing.

Faster Than Light is achieved by down touching the lasers at all in each attempt. If your group wipes, it resets.

Firebaall.5127:

I’m done addressing you Ayrilana. You bring nothing to this discussion. You have nothing to contribute, except invalid points and insulting behavior. You might as well troll somewhere else.

A good example is how you think people don’t port borderlands. You’re done. Move along.

I’m sorry you feel that way but you’ve been the one insulting me this entire thread. All of my points have been valid arguments for the nerf which happened to disagree with yours. Just because you disagree with someone’s opinions doesn’t mean that their points are invalid.

People do not port in borderlands. I’ve played on 4 different servers since launch and have yet to see anyone do that. You don’t see people always saying that they’re porting or asking for a port. EB was always the puzzle that people asked for a mesmer port. Why? This was because you could get up to 20 badges from it. People did this for their legendary and for gear.

The nerf to make it account bound happened on April 30th. On May 14th EB jumping puzzle was moved to its own map. May 28th ascended items became available from WvW vendors. My statement about ascended being available well after the nerf was a little inaccurate.

It was nerfed because players could do the puzzle with minimal effort due to having a mesmer port them up. The puzzle also gave a chance of up to 20 badges which is considerably higher than at the borderlands. Being able to do this on all of your characters and getting upwards to 100+ badges in less than an hour for doing absolutely nothing was a little absurd.

They also increased the drop rate of badges while playing WvW which leads to the belief that they were trying to encourage people to do more WvW rather than just farm the jumping puzzle.

I also mentioned that the free siege as a reason to support doing the jp was irrelevant since a lot of the WvW guilds have a stockpile of them. They also have enough cash flow to buy siege. If the eb jumping puzzle did not drop any badges, would guilds still have run it when it was still on the WvW map? If the jumping puzzles did not drop badges would you still run them? It still has free siege after all!

If you want it to be character bound then I suggest that they make the badges like in the borderlands where you can only get like 3-4 per chest. It seems fair to me. Or if you want more badges then disable mesmer portals in the puzzle.

Firebaall.5127:

Ayrilana.1396:

Something is not moot just because it goes against your opinion. I suggest you look up what condescending means. None of my posts were anything close to that. The BL jp required you to collect keys and did not have people sitting on top porting people. You could do the EB puzzle in less than a min with absolutely zero effort.

The only thing moot is that any argument for one side or the other won’t matter as this nerf will not be reversed.

Yup, you most certainly have a condescending attitude. Also demonstrated with this reply too. Implying that I missed your point was a condescension, as is your suggestion that I need to look up what the word condescending means. You’re too self absorbed to realize you don’t have much to offer.

As to your point that the collection of keys makes the BL different, you’re wrong (not surprised) in that regard as well. Two mesmers make those puzzles just as easy as the EB puzzle. Fact.

You don’t seem to have a clue what it means and would rather resort to personal attacks because I happen to disagree with you? Please be a little more constructive.

People did not do ports for those JP ever. There was always a mesmer at the eb doing ports. There’s a difference.

Avatara.1042:

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re participating in WvW. Doing the jumping puzzle contributes nothing. You could easily farm 100+ badges an hour before the nerf.

You are clueless. On SoS we used to funnel half our server through that JP, and acquire a massive stockpile of siege.

Read my other posts. I said most guilds have a stockpile of siege.

All of those happen in the regular game as well. It’;s not just tied to those particular achievements.

Conner.4702:

Ayrilana.1396:

It was nerfed months ago. Even before it became its own zone. This was well before ascended was available in WvW.

Are you naive enough to think they didn’t plan ahead?

As far as I’m concerned the people who don’t understand advanced tactics, strategy and planning, whined and whined and got it removed and nerfed, because they can’t fathom how it could be used as an asset. 99.999% of the playerbase are nothing but lowly footsoldiers. You don’t let footsoldiers dictate strategy.

If I recall the nerf to make it account bound occurred about 3 months before ascended. Not everything is planned long in advance. Even if it were, it still doesn’t matter. It was an extremely quick way to get badges with no effort in a short amount of time.

Siege is very easy to come by and people don’t struggle to obtain them. Most of the WvW guilds have stockpiles of it including the superior siege. Any advantage to the free siege has a very minimal impact in WvW. Besides, most of the people went there for the badges and not for the siege. The free siege was just being used as an excuse to justify doing the jp.

Firebaall.5127:

Ayrilana.1396:

You missed the point as you did not see my other post.

Your point posted was moot. It wasn’t missed. Nice condescending attitude failure though.

As stated above, the loot is scaled to your character level. Just as it is in the BL puzzles. There is no reason that the EB puzzle should be limited to one character per account.

Something is not moot just because it goes against your opinion. I suggest you look up what condescending means. None of my posts were anything close to that. The BL jp required you to collect keys and did not have people sitting on top porting people. You could do the EB puzzle in less than a min with absolutely zero effort.

The only thing moot is that any argument for one side or the other won’t matter as this nerf will not be reversed.

It was nerfed months ago. Even before it became its own zone. This was well before ascended was available in WvW.

Firebaall.5127:

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re participating in WvW. Doing the jumping puzzle contributes nothing. You could easily farm 100+ badges an hour before the nerf.

You can easily farm as many zergtarding per hour.

Correct me if I’m wrong but with moving the JP into it’s own instance, the map limit for EB is separate. What does it matter, if you enjoy farming the JP? The two activities are now mutually exclusive.

You missed the point as you did not see my other post.

I played guardian in half of my attempts trying to get the unfriendly skies achievement. I spent 70% of the last boss fight reviving people who couldn’t dodge, bring condition removal, or be able to not get one-shotted by Mai. A guardian is not supposed to hold your hand and carry you.

You do realize that if you can’t dodge that you can get up on a crate and jump over the smaller lasers? For the larger wall, just stay away from it.

Crovax.7854:

Ayrilana.1396:

You can’t get hit by the cannons from Horrik. The others don’t count against you.

Learn to read. I wasn’t hit by any kind of cannon aoe or damaged by the fields
the shot leave behind. My point was that the system somehow didn’t recognize
the achievement as validated.
Twice.

And I wasn’t responding to you but since you seem to think I was (and rudely) then I will. You likely took aoe damage and did not notice it. Record the entire fight without you taking any damage. That will be your proof whether you did or not.

Some people are so set in their beliefs that you can’t have a rational debate with them. It’s similar to that religious lady in the movie The Mist. I suggest that everyone just accept you’ll never agree and move on.

All MMO’s with an endgame has consisted of raids to grind gear. People honestly do not know what they want and will never be happy. For instance, people wanted more solo content for living story. Anet gave them just that and they complained that they can’t group up. Anet gave them group content and they complain that they have to team up.

Which achievements promote selfish play for the dungeon?

Faster than light requires you to work as a team to beat all of the golems. You have to keep moving otherwise the wall will get you. I have yet to see anyone who is not contributing.

Personal Space requires you to avoid the cannons from Horrik. You likely will fail the achievement if you get downed so it’s in your best interest to stay alive. A lot of the time you don’t know which shots are from Horrik. You’re doing the team a big favor by staying alive.

Unfriendly Skies requires you to work as a team to beat the two bosses in under 15 minutes. You obviously have to work as a team to do this.

I only leave when I know a group can’t progress. I normally give a warning though.

You can’t get hit by the cannons from Horrik. The others don’t count against you.

Excalibur.9748:

this fight is IMPOSSIBLE without at least 1 guard who brings in the proper team buffs. if you get into a team without a guard, just leave you won’t make it.

Wrong. Every class has access to stability. I’ve beaten it with a team of all light armor classes.

You’re participating in WvW. Doing the jumping puzzle contributes nothing. You could easily farm 100+ badges an hour before the nerf.

daros.3407:

Vayne.8563:

daros.3407:

raptor.1064:

daros.3407:

Bloodstealer.5978:

You mean you aren’t able to master the lasers so its to hard.. hmmm took a few attempts to learn how the lasers run and tbh I don’t see any issues with it as long as players are willing to learn.
This dungeon is the first one in GW2 imo that requires a bit more than “link zerker gear or don’t apply”… it requires a bit of working out.. use a runner to lay down AOE or signets to grab aggro from the golems.. rest run the lasers and when the small laser catches up, simply jump up on the crates to avoid jump back down and keep targeting the golems.. not really that hard.

The worst part for me is 3 times now the group has got passed the Fizz room got chest, carried on into next Aetherblade mobs, then all of a sudden we all get booted out to LA.. maybe someone leaves or DC’s and the rest of us get thrown out as well… but this is another issue for them to sort!

To avoid lasers is easy but there is no way how to counter golems pull and if they will pull you you will die in 70% times.
And there is also problem, maybe bug, when lasers appearing they can appear right where you are and again this mean certain death.
Dungeon is not too hard but this part realy needs improvements.

the bars that the lasers shoot out of come out before they turn on, it is easy to avoid

But there is still golem pull which will get you right in laser. And if you stand on box you just have no chance to avoid it.

Stability for the win.

Dungeon shoud be doable for all classes not only for those with stability or aegis…

It’s a dungeon that requires TEAMWORK. Stay together. You do realize that guardians can give those around them aegis and stability?

Also:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

EVERY class has access to stability.

They did this months ago. It’s not the same considering you could receive up to 20 badges of honor per chest and people could easily just create accounts to farm it. Many did just that.

If you’re planning to do the achievements then I’d do them this weekend. There’s less and less people doing the dungeon now.

flarosie.3264:

Also, regarding the Personal Space achievement, do you only need to avoid the blue cannon fire? I’m just not sure which cannon blasts are Horrik-specific or if you have to avoid EVERY red circle in the room during the onslaughts. Anything you might remember would be appreciated. Thanks!

You only need to avoid his attacks during the three cannon phases. He only uses the orange shots. If you take any damage from them (including burning) then you fail.