Guild Wars 2

infantrydiv.1620:

Shadowstep.6049:

Nobody wants to hear the truth, just lies… typical.

What does ranger pet do? It provides CC, some dmg and rezzes but is absolutely useless by itself.

Rings the bell? Yeah, thief is ranger pet basically. I don’t see how it can be enjoyable to be a pet for other players.

Yeah clearly Thief must be equal to a Ranger pet since EVERY SINGLE top team runs a thief and a team with a Ranger on it hasn’t won a real tournament in over a year and a half. Perfect logic… actually, head on back over to the thief forum, thanks

You walked right into “perfect example” town. 10/10.

DaShi.1368:

Should thieves be in every team comp?

No? Thieves arent asking for anything but the required core tweaking to be competent in 1v1. And frankly, the players that are proclaiming flatly that a classes potential to 1v1 should be inversely proportional to its ability to move around while warrior exists should be ashamed of themselves. I should not be barred from at least speccing into actually fighting because one skill on one of my weapons lets me move a short distance away twice, in exchange for all of my combat potential for a few seconds.

That’s asinine.

And the viewpoint that “Thieves were once picked by people who played tournaments, so they must be good” is also stupid. The meta has changed. Not every PVP team is tournament-quality, especially in ranked, especially if pug. And that viewpoint fails to take into account that those thieves are part of a rehearsed strategy that is probably constantly reinforced vs teamspeak. It says very little if anything about the thief’s inherent viability. A soldier with a peashooter can be valuable in an army if he has a good team and a specific function.

Stop that kitten. You’re just regurgitating year old arguments against a class that hardly resembles what was argued against then.

Zero Day.2594:

Too much work, not enough paid hours, job’s stressful plus you got kids screaming you suck on the forums

I highly doubt that we will see core changes for BWE3 or even before/at release of HoT.

This. Reroll or Alt+F4.

I’m kittened off that my class that I sunk so much money and time into is pretty much useless now, but I’m not going to bash anyone for it. It wont get it fixed faster.

tetrodoxin.2134:

I think it’d be hilarious to see two inactive players standing opposed to each other while their passives fight on their own. Like a weird mindgame. Just more mindless :0

Like this?

Amante.8109:

For what it’s worth, ronpierce is probably the only “non-thief” player in our forums making constructive and factual posts that I’ve seen any time recently.

Indeed. I appreciate his objectivity even though I’m pretty kitten dissatisfied atm.

Canaanite.3409:

i am confident that one day it will return to the fast paced 1v1 competent class we all came to love.

This was your first mistake.

Sagat.3285:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Cynz.9437:

. Only choice is to quit game or reroll.

Yep. Unfortunate but true.

There is a third choice offered by “he who knows his name”. Buy HoT and wait till staff can compete it was all a scheme I underestimated their work of balance as team. I kind of rerolled already I do have all classes after all.

Wait

vs

Pay money and wait

Lol ok

Just saying, if you want players to pay to be competent at a game with a specific class, you just moved into pay to win territory.

ronpierce.2760:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

ronpierce.2760:

In regards to the nerf-to-buff. You have to look at non-numerical things (at least in case of thief), such as Shortbow 5.

Thief are in such a rough state right now because they have perks that they do so well that if you give them too much, they would become irreplaceable.

yknow, thats another thing.

Vertical mobility at the cost of half of a thief’s initiative?

I dont think that mobility is worth nerfing the rest of their core.

Remember, on land, Warriors outpace us.

I don’t really feel like getting into this debate because it never ends well, but there’s a reason why Magic Toker can carry a WTS on decaps. No other class can navigate in the same way. Part of it has to do with it being vertical, the other part about the “burst-of-mobility”, but either way you look at it, it’s already what basically solidifies a thief’s position in a team as part of the highest-level meta-game.

It just is what it is, and you could argue its potency, but the proof is in that no other class does what a thief can do, and I personally believe the thief’s core suffers for it.

Dont worry, don’t wanna debate.

Just wanted to hear your opinion.

ronpierce.2760:

In regards to the nerf-to-buff. You have to look at non-numerical things (at least in case of thief), such as Shortbow 5.

Thief are in such a rough state right now because they have perks that they do so well that if you give them too much, they would become irreplaceable.

yknow, thats another thing.

Vertical mobility at the cost of half of a thief’s initiative?

I dont think that mobility is worth nerfing the rest of their core.

Remember, on land, Warriors outpace us.

Kolly.9872:

Look at the positive thing. We don’t see anymore Lord Rosicky crying on the thief forum. We lost but the forum war is over.

he’s only not here because losing to a thief requires shameful ineptitude on any other classes part.

Re: Patience

I’m being patient by not rerolling. I could easily do that or quit.

That doesnt mean I have to stay quiet about it and hope people see and act on this nonsense.

whining got us here, so whining will get us out.

pce

Cynz.9437:

. Only choice is to quit game or reroll.

Yep. Unfortunate but true.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The funny thing about this is that, while Karl is concern about balance _(not letting Thief be overpowered — which I support)

Nail on the head, but you cant blame him, because the moment thief is competent people will start crying

just accept it. Maybe if we try hard enough we’ll get nerfed again.

Thief is fine, obviously.

Bottom of barrel is where we belong.

l2p.

Thief balancing is trying too hard not to step on the toes of the other class mains, meanwhile we have them walking all over us with mechanics that leave us defenseless.

And then when you try to suggest sustain just to live, an influx of players flood the topic howling that thief is fine.

Whatever.

I can easily not play.

/The saltiest

Grandmaster: Thorn in the box

When you are revealed, cause 2 seconds of fear to up to 5 nearby enemies (30 sec cd)

Because I can just run engie and not have to worry about being mechanically disadvantaged.

Sincerely idk

Karl McLain.5604:

I will say though that pistols are something we’ll be looking to improve, being as they feel under-tuned at the moment.

-Karl

Thank you. I’m glad to hear that.

I’m okay with 15.

I’m a little irritated they’re already shaving DD, but I’m okay with it.

Noss.4105:

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Finer points aside, any class setup that allows you to FullHP -> Death a class without a telegraph is overpowered, plain and simple.

I don’t know why there are paragraphs being written elsewhere defending the above specifically.

,An untelegraphed (close-to)instakill is unpleasant to fight unfair to the recipient and cannot be planned for. It’s just as passive as turret engie and, ironically, is an embellished version of what many mesmers blamed as being unpleasant and unfair to fight.

wins should be the reward of prediction, skillful play and strategy. A class that can simply erase HP bars without at least making its presence known long enough for its opponent to react needs fixing, period.

“An untelegraphed (close-to)instakill is unpleasant to fight”

Mirror blade is pretty kitten telegraphed. The damage is fine, it was actually just as high before patch (traited bounce), when mesmers were considered one of the weakest classes. The things that can be considered broken are Daze>Stun and Stealth (PU). Also, blind shatter.

I think he meant it’s untelegraphed when the burst comes from stealth.

This.

I don’t understand what:

If you want to run glass, don’t whine about being burst down.

If you run without condition cleanse, don’t whine about how strong conditions are.

Gear appropriately and you’ll have a more pleasant time, instead of expecting every other class to be nerfed down enough for you to manage facekeyboarding them to death.

has anything to do with the above. I didnt even mention anything regarding those points.

Quit drawing arguments out of thin air.

I only have -one- qualm right now. One. I’m not arguing about “hurr I wanna faceroll”, so quit pretending like I am.

Mesmers can now burst from stealth without telegraphs, with damage far above
what thief ever managed over a shorter period. They at one point complained that
this was exactly what made their class hard to play. Apparently its unfair when one
class can do it, but suddenly fair when the Mesmers themselves can, to greater
effect?

Ice.5162:

It’s ALMOST as if people have different tastes, fascinating.

Blasphemy!

That’s impossible!

They take forever because whenever something changes the community whines regardless.

They let it be “op” for however long, and then if, after a while, the majority hasnt adapted or there is a concrete hangup with a bug, it gets fixed.

Either that or just genuinely slow.

List of changes:

Old Feline Grace Baseline.
Fleet shadow Baseline.
500 Vitality, tentative.
Pistol/Pistol Ricochet baseline
Pistol range increased to 1200 (why does it travel a shorter distance than longbow?)
Condi removal on dodge capped by proc instead of icd, 3 condis max from evading per dodge

The rest is fine.

Chapell.1346:

ArcanistSeven.8720:

i cant really duel anyone

thief is fine

???

Zero Day.2594:

Oh and another factor is in most games the assassin/rogue/thief/ninja is generally hated… It just perpetuated to this game as well.

---

Sweetmate.5903:

…

Honestly, does ANet hate Thieves? Because after a month of playing one I’m already frustrated. I can’t even begin to image how someone who has mained a Thief for 2 + years must feel.

They feel like this, with a little less hope in their eyes:

I can +1 this.

Agreed.

Buff Ele so I can have better incentive to not pvp ty

Haste gives stability

-salivate-

Thief being able to break auto immunes

How dare you tease me like this.

believe.6514:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Are you all fine with grinding now? Because this event is absolutely atrocious.

Should I even bother with this event?

If(haveHalo()==TRUE)
{
no();
}
else
{
yes();
}

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Let’s talk about how GW2 as a whole is grindy instead of the event like * the topic thread specified-

No.

The event isn’t grindy. I also hate it, but it isnt grindy.

I’m fine with it requiring actual work. It’s temporary and some of the prizes are decent. Do it or dont, makes no diff unless you want the halo.

> Goes in game

> Sees event that gives nothing but cosmetic shinies but requires work

>"I thought GW2 had no griend!"

Whining. Not everything in life comes easy. Especially cosmetic trivialities.

Zerker Amulet, No withdraw, and no S/A?

I, too, like to live dangerously.

I think this gives me an idea though.

Revenant, then take a break for [insert game here] once I get tired of it.

Other classes seem extremely slow once you switch from Thief.

yeah.

ScionKai.4907:

Empower us to do it for you…

Since Guild Arenas are a sandbox please allow us to somehow disable certain types of builds so we can balance the game ourselves how we like.

Thank you!!!

The only individuals less capable of balancing this game than the devs are the players who play it.

You’re not wrong.

Thief is bad, it cannot stand up to the current meta, and people are either defending the mindset that “Thief only being able to +1 and decap empty circles is fair” or asking to nerf thief more.

laquito.5269:

Please nerf the only defensive traitline that thieves actually use, its too forgiving

toppestkek.

How about instead of making them even more glass you add incentive to run the other traitline?

@ Above

I’m probably going revenant when its released. They get Sword / Sword, evade frames, are heavy armor class and get a blindfold.

> thief as it stands now, immediately. Especially because the only thing people have in their minds regarding the class is “Nerf it more, its still op.”

I agree with you on several points, but at this point I think we’re going to need to suck,it up, though. Thief already has the highest skill floor when it comes to doing well against the current meta, and I’m pretty sure every single class is going to cry if everyone and their mother can play thief and be decent with them.

Anet pretty much just role-reversed Mesmer and Thieves. The former went from “have to know what you’re doing to actually be decent” to “lmao mindless gank class” and the latter did the opposite.

I’m okay with that. Wish fighting wasnt borderline impossible but I’m okay with the perspective aspect of it.

We just don’t get to be good baseline. lmao.

laquito.5269:

It’s an absolulte Nobrainer to pick SA, because it offers so much passive kitten and is just overall so much better than the other traitlines:
- Passive stealth on rez + increased rez speed
- Passive condi cleanse in stealth
- Passive Stealth increasement (1s)
- Stealth on steal
- Reduced damage in stealth
- HEALING in stealth
.

Ill take a potshot at this. I’m well aware I’m ninja’d

Yes, its a no brainer to take SA.

Few things though.

Gaining stealth on an action cannot be passive, you are performing an action to gain the stealth.

Healing in stealth is low, but agreed to be passive.
Reduced damage in stealth is agreed to be passive, but keep in mind:

-some classes can break stealth on thieves at will, even if they cannot see them

-Thief requires stealth to mitigate any damage at all that isnt outright evaded because
they have no sustain.

So, SA doesnt offer “so much passive kitten” Imo. Id love to take something that reduced CDs or even venoms, but given that the class is melty and that many of the traits in SA that focus more on activity are paired with something counter-intuitive, like creating a smoke field on down, The only traitlines that provide reasonable benefit will follow the course you described.

That doesn’t mean that they still dont deserve a buff though.

style.6173:

Sube Dai.8496:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Sigil of generosity.

People will figure it out eventually.

They used to be useless but now that we have Condi’s stacking they will start to see more use.

You don’t understand the sigil.

Sigil of generosity: 60% chance to transfer 1 condition to an enemy on critical hit. NINE SECONDS COOLDOWN

Transferring 1 condition every 9 seconds does nothing. We are currently in a condi spam type meta and without multiple condi clears, you’ll be dead before the 9 second recharge.

The issue is 2 fold:
1. Stacked burning damage does way too much damage
2. Condi spike damage is WAY too high given that you get a defensive trait as well (vit or toughness).

generosity transfers the most damaging condition first, iirc.

That means youll push off the burning/bleeding first and then use your cclear on whatever is left. I dont think that’s a bad tradeoff.

unless im horribly wrong and its last in first out

Cynz.9437:

Dropping all offensive traits just gets you killed faster because most of thief defensive power is… offensive,

We need this point to be firmly established in the minds of people that are going “just run bunker, uggggggh”.

We cant. A thief that doesnt make someone panic with spike damage is easy bag, unless there’s sustain to be had

which is what we’re asking for

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Chapell.1346:

the viability of P/p

Clearly player skill issue

topkek.

Chapell.1346:

My declaration of war

War against Thieves in favor of keeping them just as they are? If so then topkek.

Thief is fine in Conquest, rumors says Practice makes perfect.

Topkek.

Thief is fine anywhere but the pvp scene, which is mainly comprised of conquest.
Telling someone to practice when their only gripe is that they dont have the sustainability to do so feasibly is what I can only chalk up as great ignorance.

I’ll say it again: We’re asking for time to fight, not free bags. It’s shocking how many people think that SB #5 should disqualify thieves from being able to do anything -but- port, and even more shocking how people shy away from taking as valid any claims that other classes can be just as mobile without also being trash at 1v1.

And for those of you regurgitating the “But thief is used in hi tier tournaments so it must be fine!” Stop it. That’s stark false cause. Thief being used in any respect does not mean it is fine at all.

Thing is, the meta thief build as it is can’t have more sustain, top players are already calling it unkillable unless they make mistakes. If you mean non meta builds, i agree.

Again, I have not said anything about builds. I don’t think I’ve mentioned a specific weapon except SB and its #5, because that seems to be the linchpin that is preventing people from thinking that thieves should not be free kills when encountered alone.

I don’t care about meta anything. The class itself needs a way to sustain.

Your first statement intrigues me, though. Who specifically said thief is “unkillable” unless they make mistakes, and was it before or after the recent patch?

The combo of SA and vamp makes them super survivable, but nevermind that, since you don’t care for meta, that’s fine. Thief as a class has way too low sustain for bruiser playstyle outside stealth

I’d still like to address the meta build, even though I am not focusing on it.

SA is nice, ill give you that. It could be better, but its good as is.

Vamp is an external factor that people are looking to have nerfed anyway, so I wouldn’t say that makes thief viable in itself. If they nerf vamp, not even the burst playstyle thief has will be viable.

There’s a lot of little tweaks that could be made to help us just plain live.

SA cannot be better, the traitline is kittening strong man. If anything acro should be the “bruiser” traitline, since daredevil does the dodges.

Acro is fine to buff to be sure; I miss my deception recharge reduction, though. who’d take that paired with a “here I am” smokefield on down, especially with condi cleanse on the same tier?

I dont -need- it though. current is fine. Just whining nostalgia.

It brings DPS you dont need because Axe #1 is better, and fury is easily accessible for warriors.

so most people go with a defensive util.

If it reflected projectiles people might use it.

A margonite outfit would be nice , but I’d prefer to see it as an addition to the makeover kit

Zaron.1987:

here we are …..

Drinks shot

ResJudicator.7916:

-snip-

That said, I wouldn’t mind the thief getting a build that trades in mobility and stealth for more of a brawler role. The problem is that it’s hard to incentivize the thief to give up shortbow. I think we’d have to dramatically improve the thief’s other ranged power options (i.e. p/p), and/or create more synergy between the non-bow weapon sets. (That and improving the acrobatics traitline for more non-stealth survivability).

RE: Snipped

This is essentially my take on the class at the moment.

RE: Quoted

This is acceptable.

‘Free bags’ is bad on any avenue, I will agree with this completely. That is not what I’m looking for. Role delegation is abhorrent.

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Chapell.1346:

the viability of P/p

Clearly player skill issue

topkek.

Chapell.1346:

My declaration of war

War against Thieves in favor of keeping them just as they are? If so then topkek.

Thief is fine in Conquest, rumors says Practice makes perfect.

Topkek.

Thief is fine anywhere but the pvp scene, which is mainly comprised of conquest.
Telling someone to practice when their only gripe is that they dont have the sustainability to do so feasibly is what I can only chalk up as great ignorance.

I’ll say it again: We’re asking for time to fight, not free bags. It’s shocking how many people think that SB #5 should disqualify thieves from being able to do anything -but- port, and even more shocking how people shy away from taking as valid any claims that other classes can be just as mobile without also being trash at 1v1.

And for those of you regurgitating the “But thief is used in hi tier tournaments so it must be fine!” Stop it. That’s stark false cause. Thief being used in any respect does not mean it is fine at all.

Thing is, the meta thief build as it is can’t have more sustain, top players are already calling it unkillable unless they make mistakes. If you mean non meta builds, i agree.

Again, I have not said anything about builds. I don’t think I’ve mentioned a specific weapon except SB and its #5, because that seems to be the linchpin that is preventing people from thinking that thieves should not be free kills when encountered alone.

I don’t care about meta anything. The class itself needs a way to sustain.

Your first statement intrigues me, though. Who specifically said thief is “unkillable” unless they make mistakes, and was it before or after the recent patch?

The combo of SA and vamp makes them super survivable, but nevermind that, since you don’t care for meta, that’s fine. Thief as a class has way too low sustain for bruiser playstyle outside stealth

I’d still like to address the meta build, even though I am not focusing on it.

SA is nice, ill give you that. It could be better, but its good as is.

Vamp is an external factor that people are looking to have nerfed anyway, so I wouldn’t say that makes thief viable in itself. If they nerf vamp, not even the burst playstyle thief has will be viable.

There’s a lot of little tweaks that could be made to help us just plain live.

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Chapell.1346:

the viability of P/p

Clearly player skill issue

topkek.

Chapell.1346:

My declaration of war

War against Thieves in favor of keeping them just as they are? If so then topkek.

Thief is fine in Conquest, rumors says Practice makes perfect.

Topkek.

Thief is fine anywhere but the pvp scene, which is mainly comprised of conquest.
Telling someone to practice when their only gripe is that they dont have the sustainability to do so feasibly is what I can only chalk up as great ignorance.

I’ll say it again: We’re asking for time to fight, not free bags. It’s shocking how many people think that SB #5 should disqualify thieves from being able to do anything -but- port, and even more shocking how people shy away from taking as valid any claims that other classes can be just as mobile without also being trash at 1v1.

And for those of you regurgitating the “But thief is used in hi tier tournaments so it must be fine!” Stop it. That’s stark false cause. Thief being used in any respect does not mean it is fine at all.

Thing is, the meta thief build as it is can’t have more sustain, top players are already calling it unkillable unless they make mistakes. If you mean non meta builds, i agree.

Again, I have not said anything about builds. I don’t think I’ve mentioned a specific weapon except SB and its #5, because that seems to be the linchpin that is preventing people from thinking that thieves should not be free kills when encountered alone.

I don’t care about meta anything. The class itself needs a way to sustain.

Your first statement intrigues me, though. Who specifically said thief is “unkillable” unless they make mistakes, and was it before or after the recent patch?

Chapell.1346:

the viability of P/p

Clearly player skill issue

topkek.

Chapell.1346:

My declaration of war

War against Thieves in favor of keeping them just as they are? If so then topkek.

Thief is fine in Conquest, rumors says Practice makes perfect.

Topkek.

Thief is fine anywhere but the pvp scene, which is mainly comprised of conquest.
Telling someone to practice when their only gripe is that they dont have the sustainability to do so feasibly is what I can only chalk up as great ignorance.

I’ll say it again: We’re asking for time to fight, not free bags. It’s shocking how many people think that SB #5 should disqualify thieves from being able to do anything -but- port, and even more shocking how people shy away from taking as valid any claims that other classes can be just as mobile without also being trash at 1v1.

And for those of you regurgitating the “But thief is used in hi tier tournaments so it must be fine!” Stop it. That’s stark false cause. Thief being used in any respect does not mean it is fine at all. There are many external factors that can affect those matches, including things like presence of teamspeak that overreach the quality of the class itself.

I don’t want to hear “legendary player X plays it so it must be good”. That’s trash.

Sigil of generosity.

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Quadox.7834:

If you don’t like that, don’t play meta thief. Play some other builds. If there is no other build, this thread should be about buffing thief alternatives (pistol and whatnot). Not to be confused with buffing the current meta build.

I never said anything about a build.

I’ll say it again.

Thief as a class is lacking sustain. Please fix.

I agree, there is no tank/bruiser thief. Doesn’t mean thief is unviable in other roles, which people seem to believe. This is something to look at.

It is viable only in one role.

And even then it has lower sustain than is necessary.

Thats the whole problem.

Quadox.7834:

Incorrect. Mesmer doesn’t 1v1 in tourneys.

???

Thief doesn’t 1v1 in tourneys.

Because they’re forced to.

Stealth helps survival and is better than pure sustain for burst classes. See PU mes > insp.

PU doesnt contest points.

Quadox.7834:

If you don’t like that, don’t play meta thief. Play some other builds. If there is no other build, this thread should be about buffing thief alternatives (pistol and whatnot). Not to be confused with buffing the current meta build.

I never said anything about a build.

I’ll say it again.

Thief as a class is lacking sustain. Please fix.

IDICERI.4268:

Well, if they fix the Daredevil Staff, 1v1 for the thief maybe possible again by giving up a lot of stealth(Staff-X). If not, thieves will still have their supporting role which they currently have(D/P-SB). Otherwise if you’re wanting to 1v1, you’ll have to look to play another profession. It’s unfortunate but true. No amount of bringing a problem to light or complaining on the forums will solve this problem because the vast majority of players on the forum think that it’s okay(Mentality: Thief is always picked in tournaments – OP, fine as it is, why are thieves complaining? Thief can’t possible be lacking). It may not be right, but that is what it comes down to.

I had a lot of fun with the Revenant this weekend. Will enjoy playing that when HoT comes out for 1v1.

I agree with this, but the expansion pack shouldnt be our way to be viable either.

runeblade.7514:

I will never understand the thieves that keep asking for the ability to 1v1. PvP is a team game. If PvP is a collection of 1v1, then D/P would never win tournaments.

1v1 is an aspect of team play. A player that always needs a backup class to even down an opponent is a drain on the team. That’s why two-thief teams have a habit of failing.

Thieves have tons of sustain. It is called stealth, evasion, shadowstep. They have enough sustain to get the job done, just like every other meta burst build with a bonus of unparalleled mobility.

Stealth is not sustain as it stands now. It requires desisting from combat and stops players from contesting points, not to mention it can be broken by certain classes rather easily.

Other two are correct.

Its quite easy. Get another player to distract them, and then instagib them. PvP is a team game.

1v1 is a facet of team play.

I shouldn’t have to see a player on a point and have to go get someone to help me contest it.

Quadox.7834:

As long has thief has resbot powers, AOE stealth for the team, and amazing mobility, they should NOT be able to 1v1 many builds/classes at all. A thief running without SB and such, should (if the game were balanced) be able to 1v1. If this isn’t the case, other things needs buffing than the meta thief build.

It isnt the case, since SB is used for running away at the moment (mostly, theres some good dps there on people not moving around.)

Don’t know how one would go about nerfing SB so that not taking it allows thieves to 1v1, but mesmer has two of the three you mentioned -and- currently has oneshot-worthy burst.

I wouldn’t call resbot a strength, either.