Guild Wars 2

Thanks.6859:

Theifs should not be able to use stealth while in combat they run around all game ganking people when they meet there match they disappear its this will make them choose there kills wisely since there playing puss class

So you want to take away the core mechanic of a class with the lowest defense and hp pool in the game because they don’t sit there and die like good little players, even though all they’re good for at the moment -is- ganking because of the new damage balancing?

Stop being a baby. You can walk all over most thieves with practice. Instead of asking that the game be shaped for you, go learn how to beat them.

I wrote a nice post, but got a portal error and it vanished, and I cant be bothered to write it again. So, in a nutshell:

Yes to fleet shadow baseline.

Yes to hp pool increase/ toughness pool increase.

Give us a reason to use Acrobatics. (Don’t really care.)
Give us a reason to use anything but d/p Sb (Again, dont really care. if you like a weapon set youll use it regardless, so this is back burner)

Everything else posted above is reasonable, but I can live with it as is, and I begrudgingly accept it as “necessary weakness” to prevent constant complaining.

It’s disheartening when you play a class that relies on razor sharp reflexes to stay alive, and can’t manage to down some lazybones player that uses the same button rotation in every encounter, simply because you dont have enough protection against stupid high burning ticks or random procs.

Then when you start spamming unload to stay out of fields because you cant facetank damage of any sort, people have a problem with you.

You’re assuming they care if they get chewed up.

They probably don’t. Just silently watching the forum is the best way to gauge how we feel, because as soon as they post people are going to exaggerate all the problems we have and we’ll end up getting overbuffed. Then the mesmers will complain again.

The first time I saw “Thief can +1 the best, so its relevant”, I cringed in disgust.

Glad to see I’m not the only one unwilling to settle to the role of an add.

Somethings wrong with that. Something’s really wrong with it. Especially when, at the same time, getting paired with more than one thief on your team in ranked is a death sentence.

Most classes that have permanent or high swiftness uptime have given up damage, defense or both for that boon.

It’s a reasonable tradeoff, and making it baseline would harm the classes that have playstyles that center around kiting.

I’m okay with super speed being more accessible though.

Lmao, I love how when it was in beta people were proclaiming from the mountaintops that they’d never look back-

On topic though, AA sinking doesnt mean Anet should do anything.

Trahearne is corruptible drgnfood.

Just a matter of time.

Xymia.7936:

Kalipos.6832:

We still don’t know thief elite spec so..
we still don’t know if the new thief elite spec brings some balance for as aswell and new mechanic to play with
thief is right now uncompleted imo

yeah.. if I have to buy an expansion to have a fair game experience then f*** that, that’s just straight up p2w

This.

It’s gonna be a bad time if we have to pay just to get thieves balanced, instead of merely option addition.

Mia Crazymike.1780:

How is Cele signet necros even over powered?

because it [apparently] counters d/d ele.

not overpowered stand-alone though.

Nerf Celestial amulet: problem solved.

Supreme.3164:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Supreme.3164:

No game would survive if the developers would bend to the constant requests of small vocal minority, if things would get nerfed/buffed every time someone throw a tantrum on the forums…the game would die before long as people just leave for other games

This isn’t a tantrum.

We’re talking about a specific build for a specific class that outperforms most other generally effective class and build loadouts in the game. And the reason for this isn’t ‘waah it killed me’, if I can speak for myself, because I have had my kitten handed to me by decent players in far worse ways. The reason is that, where power and sustain should have a tradeoff, C[ele] has none, and thus performs better than anyone that is leaning to either end of the balance.

When a strategy for fighting a class becomes “Don’t fight it”, “die slow” or “+1 it”, then it needs to be looked at, whether people that play it think that it is fair or not.

No! You’re not talking about a class but rather a build with 90% investment in sustain, in that regard there is no difference between an ele and other professions specced for defense, I know quite few builds that will require a +1 (PU mesmer, MM necro, shout warrior – as proven in the last WTS, and there are more…), “don’t fight it” and “die slow”.

The build does not outperform anything more than other professions outperforming in other section of the gameplay, in this regard mesmer and thief outperform everybody from the burst point of view…still that is considered fine because..why?

Ofc the most unscrupulous complainers will use the Abjured as an example to support their so called arguments, still the Abj got sent to the losing brackets by the same team they defeated later.

When ele is specced for offense…it doesn’t stand a chance against any other profession even when played poorly or equally specced in offense, that should tell you a lot about the design conditions of the ele …

Apologies, I actually did mean build. When it comes to the class itself, I am completely fine with buffs to, say, staff in compensation for restructuring of that single build.

[Quick break, retort incoming]

Iason Evan.3806:

I have some suggestions I’d like to leave today that aren’t about what’s in the next expansion, but about content leading up to the next expansion.

Disregard, I misinterpreted your wording.

10/10, carry on.

tobascodagama.2961:

There’s only one overtuned thing on the Mesmer kit right now, IMO, and that’s Confounding Suggestions. We shouldn’t be able to attain that kind of lockdown from a single trait in one of our two best damage specs. It either needs to be toned down with a bigger ICD or moved to a different trait line or both.

Torch stealth is literally broken in that the Torch trait is bugged to give over 3x as much CDR as it should be. It’s annoying that this hasn’t been fixed by now, since it totally distorts the discussion around Mesmer stealth in general and PU in particular. (Lots of people calling for PU nerfs when it’s not even the worst offender as far as giving us “permastealth” right now.)

If those two things get fixed, then Mesmer should be in a healthy place, especially after the Mantra fix-nerfs.

Not sure what Thief needs right now, I don’t PvP on my Thief and haven’t done much PvE on her in a long time, though I wouldn’t have any issues with seeing Thiefs get some utility/survivability buffs.

I’m surprised to see reasonable suggestions for rebalancing as far as this is concerned.

Kudos to you.

Supreme.3164:

No game would survive if the developers would bend to the constant requests of small vocal minority, if things would get nerfed/buffed every time someone throw a tantrum on the forums…the game would die before long as people just leave for other games

This isn’t a tantrum.

We’re talking about a specific build for a specific class that outperforms most other generally effective class and build loadouts in the game. And the reason for this isn’t ‘waah it killed me’, if I can speak for myself, because I have had my kitten handed to me by decent players in far worse ways. The reason is that, where power and sustain should have a tradeoff, C[ele] has none, and thus performs better than anyone that is leaning to either end of the balance.

When a strategy for fighting a class becomes “Don’t fight it”, “die slow” or “+1 it”, then it needs to be looked at, whether people that play it think that it is fair or not.

Dutchy.2056:

Hey guys, just to add what people have said….a simple counter to d/d ele burns is also power cele cantrip ele with the diamond skin trait on earth . I do not think any nerf is needed really.

The only thing that can beat an ele is an ele.

(and also a specifically built necro that is borderline useless in other situations)

Ele is therefore fine.

Coulter.2315:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

fixit.7189:

I been using clerics for uh…2 years on my ele. I try to play a ‘healer’. Suffice to say, getting tags for kills/events is extremely difficult; it’s ineffecient, lowest dps ever, often times frustrating, and I don’t really heal all that well…it is quite possibly the very worst set up in game. My thief on the other hand is full serkers and I never have any issues at all, heck my survivability is just about the same yet I can dish out up to 32k on a single button press lol. Is all builds viable in PvE? Yes, but the meta builds will out perform the ‘bad’ ones by a MASSIVE margin. I had hoped HoT would open it up a bit but that sadly does not look like the case; serker is still king.

W/e. Do not use clerics in PvE…you will get yelled at, called foul names, and or get lots of group kicks if people find out. People around here really hate cleric gear players, that’s for sure lol. I need monk runes too but no one wants me around. Sigh.

I wouldnt mind a cleric player if you’re like, willing to be 90% devoted to getting the downed people up and drop boons like crazy.

There’s people that can work with non dps builds, they’re just not the majority.

The problem is resing downed people isn’t helped by Healing Power anyway :P

Correction: Keeping people up that have recently been downed.

fixit.7189:

I been using clerics for uh…2 years on my ele. I try to play a ‘healer’. Suffice to say, getting tags for kills/events is extremely difficult; it’s ineffecient, lowest dps ever, often times frustrating, and I don’t really heal all that well…it is quite possibly the very worst set up in game. My thief on the other hand is full serkers and I never have any issues at all, heck my survivability is just about the same yet I can dish out up to 32k on a single button press lol. Is all builds viable in PvE? Yes, but the meta builds will out perform the ‘bad’ ones by a MASSIVE margin. I had hoped HoT would open it up a bit but that sadly does not look like the case; serker is still king.

W/e. Do not use clerics in PvE…you will get yelled at, called foul names, and or get lots of group kicks if people find out. People around here really hate cleric gear players, that’s for sure lol. I need monk runes too but no one wants me around. Sigh.

I wouldnt mind a cleric player if you’re like, willing to be 90% devoted to getting the downed people up and drop boons like crazy.

There’s people that can work with non dps builds, they’re just not the majority.

Jekkt.6045:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Jekkt.6045:

some simple tricks against d/d eles to avoid the burning damage. now this won’t make you win but it makes you last a bit longer:

drake’s breath: don’t dodge it if you can interrupt or block it. if you dodge it a portion of the channel will still be able to hit you.

burning speed: needs to be dodged, usually comes right after attuning to fire OR after drake’s breath. (also possible: drake’s breath -> fire grab -> burning speed)

ring of fire: only dodge out of it or walk out if you have a block up.

cleansing: cleanse after fire, cleansing when the ele is in any other attunement does not give you as much as in fire. this is important for example engis.

cc: if you want to cc an ele, fire is the right moment, you disrupt their gameplay and you take their pressure out for a moment.

burst: after they left water OR you’re sure to take them out.

your stunbreaks: don’t break stun if they don’t follow up with a burst like burning speed. if you want to burst and they have shocking aura, make sure to use stability.

This is stupid and gets under my skin (Which is a hard thing to do).

We’re making strategies for “how to slowly die against a d/d” because winning is not feasible.

if only your answer is stupid, how do you intend to beat an attrition build when attrition is it’s speciality…

my post is intended to help people stay alive long enough for their teammates to arrive and 2v1 the ele or to put something equally strong on the point.

(In case there is confusion)

I was agreeing with you. I wasnt calling your -post- stupid, but rather the fact that an attrition build that never runs out of steam is stupid for existing.

The fact that a build exists that is just plain unkillable 1v1 is destructive to pvp balance. Its not even gimmicky, it heals by nature of rotation.

And thus it is sad that our strategies for dealing it amount to “Die slowly.”

Adjust.6903:

I don’t see the problem with the majority saying Warriors are bottom tier :/ maybe it’s because I get lucky with my queues but I went 9 wins 1 loss today and I was top in my team for 7 of them. Rampage… I didn’t even notice the nerf. I was still able to wreck entire teams mid-fight after dragging them low health. Hell I love my warrior even more now the fanboys have stopped playing it due to thenerf lol I saw 2 other warriors in 10 games, was lovely.

Only downside is I can’t make a viable rifle or axe build, now that’d be fun!

The problem is warriors are GLORIOUS until they are on CD, at which point they become hilariously exposed.

The fanboys no longer play it, that much is true, but I have been having much success as well with the absurd amount of damage tacked onto GS, even though people whine that it isnt viable for pvp.

Viable yes, optimal no.

Please understand[u] that the pressure to play the meta comes only from the very small fraction of dungeon speedrunners that cannot adapt to dps dips and thus need everyone to run the most efficient build to ensure group survival.

These people make up an infinitesimally small portion of the game compared to its whole, so you should play what you want and Then find people who feel similarly to you about gearing instead of putting the cart before the horse and basing your gear choices on what someone tells you is necessary.

Eventually you can even pick up gear sets if you need to run with these people in a pinch, but this should not be priority.

Have fun. We’re all too kittened off as it is.

tobascodagama.2961:

Guys, we’re both classes that everybody loves to hate even when Guards and Eles are objectively stronger in every game mode. We gotta stick together against the unwashed “Nerf now!” hordes instead of fighting each other.

Note: Mesmers were generally the only class that had poor matchups against thieves before this.

Nobody’s really asking to nerf us. In fact I think before the balance mesmers made up the bulk of the thief nerf threads.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Guild Wars one never had a PvP in PvE option. Guild Wars 2 never advertised themselves as going to have a PvP in PvE option. If the OP is going to refuse to buy the expansion for a 3 year old game because of this, a game that never had this and never advertised this is going to be an option then all I can say is, have fun in vanilla or another game of your choice.

A special thanks to penelopehannibal for 2 drinking hits, dueling and holding ANet to ransom.

Cheers~

Jekkt.6045:

some simple tricks against d/d eles to avoid the burning damage. now this won’t make you win but it makes you last a bit longer:

drake’s breath: don’t dodge it if you can interrupt or block it. if you dodge it a portion of the channel will still be able to hit you.

burning speed: needs to be dodged, usually comes right after attuning to fire OR after drake’s breath. (also possible: drake’s breath -> fire grab -> burning speed)

ring of fire: only dodge out of it or walk out if you have a block up.

cleansing: cleanse after fire, cleansing when the ele is in any other attunement does not give you as much as in fire. this is important for example engis.

cc: if you want to cc an ele, fire is the right moment, you disrupt their gameplay and you take their pressure out for a moment.

burst: after they left water OR you’re sure to take them out.

your stunbreaks: don’t break stun if they don’t follow up with a burst like burning speed. if you want to burst and they have shocking aura, make sure to use stability.

This is stupid and gets under my skin (Which is a hard thing to do).

We’re making strategies for “how to slowly die against a d/d” because winning is not feasible.

Hate mail.

Report, discard, move on.

[Mini Black Lion Mimic]

Running around makes it spill gems.

I am not even ashamed. Training in a duel room, a cele d/d elementalist asks me for a match after some center games, because he needed to practice.

I couldn’t comprehend it. He obviously knew rotations.

Practice what? You outheal everything by breathing.

I was exceptionally rude to him, and I am not sorry.

Tirade over.

Mefiq.7039:

Had 450ap(new player) Mesmer in team, he started flaming thief for stealth build…

The silver lining of the abomination that is balance as it stands now is that Mesmers now cannot complain without looking like jack-kittens.

dulfy.1493:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Thanks for the pics dulfy.

As a note. What the still pics don’t show well is that many of the weapons have a dangly piece of cloth hanging from them.

For example, the blue thing sticking from the handle on the right side of the mace is not rigid but a piece of cloth that moves.

I made a video to showcase the ribbon animation etc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmP65NRneSw

delicate.

Looks like something I could use if I had slightly more access to gold armor sections.

unusual color scheme. hmm.

When someone chooses to be stupid, don’t waste any energy trying to make them smart.

Dinks.2478:

Vayne.8563:

Dinks.2478:

No, MMOs are moving away from players. Take GW2 for a perfect example.

Anet keeps ignoring feedback, won’t communicate with the player base, and time after time kittens on their loyal veteran player base in favor of grabbing new fleeting players.

I wish people would stop saying this. Anet doesn’t ignore feedback. Which doesn’t mean they take all feedback. For example, some people ask for dueling. Many say they don’t want dueling. No matter what Anet does they’re listening to feedback.

When someone says Anet isn’t listening to feedback what they’re really saying is the decisions Anet is making is moving away from MY feedback.

Which is another story entirely.

No, I wish YOU would stop saying what you’re saying because YOU are wrong.

Anet has time and time again ignored us. They won’t tell us what they are working on. They won’t give us more dungeons. They won’t give us raids. They only produce content for the gem store. This is not MY feedback, this is the feedback of anybody who isn’t an anet fanboy who refuses to acknowledge any wrongdoing from their god.

Kind of aggressive and presumptuous there. Calm it down.

I’m not an anet fanboy, I’m pretty kittened about what they did to thieves, and I find pve boring. That being said, I do think they listen to feedback pretty kitten often, especially when it matters or when it directly involves how the community sees them.

Developing the content you’re claiming that Anet’s status as a community-interested company hinges on takes a lot of time, and with the Xpack in the works, I’m sure they’re swimming in work. They have a certain quality that you cannot rush.

I’ll play something else while I wait sometimes, but I’m willing to wait for it to launch polished and pristine.

wish more people would.

Khisanth.2948:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

There are more people willing to pay 300 dollars for a console than 1k + for a machine capable of comfortably running a MMO.

There are people that end up moving to pc when they realize their consoles make them pay another 300 every two years or so.

My system did not cost anywhere near 1k+(USD) and that was several years ago.

Emphasis on comfortable, and many gamers are not as interested in building their own rig as they should be.

There are more people willing to pay 300 dollars for a console than 1k + for a machine capable of comfortably running a MMO.

There are people that end up moving to pc when they realize their consoles make them pay another 300 every two years or so.

ill still play thief. I put a lot of effort into gearing it.

I’m slightly disappointed every time I do though.

swinsk.6410:

My first and only question is: Why are you trying to fit a square peg in a round hole?

Because we only have square pegs to use.

Zero Day.2594:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

alchemyst.2165:

Remember when S/D was considered op by the devs so they continuously nerfed it?

Well you can now get the exact same playstyle on steroids with heavy armor and high hp pool!

Yes, this is all very logical.

The developers make me not want to even continue playing when things like this happen.

Thief doing too much burst from stealth? Okay, lets nerf them. Oh, lets also give the same class that was hurt by the burst the most the very same playstyle.

Thief evading too much? Okay, lets nerf them. Oh, let’s also give a heavy armor tier the same exact playstyle.

Thief stealth has no counterplay? Okay, lets give classes uncounterable ways of revealing them for stupid amounts of time.

#TEEFstillOP

:/ Actually haven’t seen a nerf thread for a while now… wtf?

Is the HoT hype drawing away the attention…? Or is the HoT hype crash made people leave..?

I feel like leaving because the one class that kept me awake on the pvp scene is being bullied by people who enjoy spoonfed dps output but can’t handle a class with 11-17khp. Pretty sure other people have left.

Right now im running crusader and runes of the fighter. People are complaining I’m too tanky. communities making me sick and jaded.

#NerfingGreninja

alchemyst.2165:

Remember when S/D was considered op by the devs so they continuously nerfed it?

Well you can now get the exact same playstyle on steroids with heavy armor and high hp pool!

Yes, this is all very logical.

The developers make me not want to even continue playing when things like this happen.

Thief doing too much burst from stealth? Okay, lets nerf them. Oh, lets also give the same class that was hurt by the burst the most the very same playstyle.

Thief evading too much? Okay, lets nerf them. Oh, let’s also give a heavy armor tier the same exact playstyle.

Thief stealth has no counterplay? Okay, lets give classes uncounterable ways of revealing them for stupid amounts of time.

I bet the thief elite spec is a disaster too. And if it isnt, it will be, because whenever people lose to the class with the lowest hit point pool in the game, it’s always ‘the class is broken’ and Anet devs generally half-listen by not only removing it from the class, but giving it to another class in some kind of twisted joke that implies they didn’t even think it was imbalanced in the first place.

We just get nerfed to pacify people because we generally just suck it up and try harder. Then when someone has a breakthrough and finds something effective, people flock back to the thief forums and whine about it until it’s gone too.

Acrobatics is ruined because someone looked at the line and decided to take the one trait that made the class considerable and gut it, on a class that requires active defense to exist for more than a couple of seconds.

It doesnt even count technical dodges.

Shame on whoever thought this was a good idea.

I understand and am partial to the allure of risk and reward, but in the game scene as it stands now where big damage is being dumped on people in a manner of seconds, there comes a point where there’s no point in risking the entire outcome of the match for a paltry, removable boon that only procs if the game recognizes you’ve evaded something, while ignoring any dodges made that still achieved a desired result without being counted as evades.

Do you want us to play Acro, Anet? If so, you need to fix both the weapons that synergize well with it and the fact that thieves have no defense that does not depend on stealth. Extra evades used to remedy this, and in retrospect maybe it was a bit too strong. But what was done to tone it down made it simply unattractive to anyone looking to play competitively.

Its fine for thief to be hard to play, but changes like this are insulting when we already have borderline useless weapon sets for general use. There needs to be work done on the area between [forgiving] and [practically impossible].

Across the entire board, on all classes, you are simultaneously heavily rewarding the playstyles that required less focus and response time, while at the same time removing all of the facets that made high complexity, high reward play possible and enticing.

Stop doing that.

Mefiq.7039:

Its not that thief need CC to be strong, thief always was and always will be the “cunning” one that need to outplay his enemies, our only problem is that every class got huge dmg buff and most of condi builds got viable again.
Thief dmg is ok not to strong not to low, problem is that our cleanse and survi relays on stealth, sicne evades got nerfed hard nothing other pays off.

We dont need new control mechanics, we need new options to protect ourselfs from insane dmg every other class can drop on us. Change this idiotic “feline grace” Change Acro to be real defensive trait line that would make you think before chosing SA. Right now even S/D thiefs go SA…

Deathblossom revorked
Dancing dagger revorked
Pistols TOTALY revorked
Bow is fine- best thief weapon right now
I would add 100range to flanking strike.

Everything here is true, objectively speaking.

Damage is okay, the problem is all of our defense relies on sitting in stealth atm, which means dps classes outsustain us.

+1 thief slowly stirring from braindead

Bought final rest when it was cheap.

Surprisingly reasonable opinions in this thread.

Put together a PVP pool guild. Anet is probably ignoring all of the “wahh he made us lose ban him” because they have other more important things to do.

solution is play with people that play.

Lytro.9305:

Hey everyone, I was wondering if the thief is good/viable for things like PvE (dungeons and fractals), PvP, and WvW. I heard that thieves are only good for their Dagger/Pistol build. Is this true or can they use other build effectively too? Also I was wondering how effective the shortbow is as a ranged weapon.

If you play Dagger/Pistol, you are potentially good to go for PVP.

Shortbow is the only generally. effective ranged weapon for Thief, currently. Pistol is niche.

Other builds are weak/ineffective for PVP.

None of this matters in PVE.

Not bad. 9.5/10

> uses Mini Karka Hatchlings

> Standing intensifies

Dolphin.2574:

serenke.4806:

butch.8136:

serenke.4806:

butch.8136:

serenke.4806:

You know, why put up patch notes? I mean, they are lying in patch notes anyway.

They’re lying?

Yes, it has happened repeatedly.

My question implied a call for an example…

Taken from the July 29, 2014 patch notes:
BLACK LION TRADING COMPANY GEM STORE
New Items and Promotions
The new Home Portal Stone is now available in the Services category for 900 gems. Players can instantly travel to their home city instance and return to their original location on demand.
Mini Scruffy is now available in the Toys category of the Gem Store for 500 gems.
The Permanent Hair Stylist Contract is now a very rare drop from Black Lion Chests for a limited time.
The new Endless Monkey King Tonic is now a very rare drop from Black Lion Chests.

Taken from the October 29, 2014 patch notes:
Bug Fixes
Player animation for the Frost Wasp Logging Tool and Tireless Logging Minion was fixed so that players are not locked in place for a few seconds after the third hit.
Clarification: An error in previous release notes regarding the Permanent Hair Stylist Contract has been amended. The Permanent Hair Stylist Contract continues to be a very rare drop from the Black Lion Chest.

Are you actually alleging that correction of a previous error constitutes lying? Or are you purporting that committing the error by default makes it a lie?

Someone please restore my faith in humanity and tell me this is a troll post.

Just someone struggling to put his money where his mouth is.

Stick around, the forums are full of that.

I’m sufficiently amused by how Anet’s resolution to the problem of “stealth has no counterplay” was to introduce a skill that shuts down stealth, but has no counterplay.

NeXeD.3042:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

NeXeD.3042:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

NeXeD.3042:

theif is faster, it can +1 fights faster and decap faster, and alot of the time you have no clue it’s coming.

Mesmer is similar but not as mobile

A class that has combat capability but is delegated to “do not fight unless you are helping X fight” is a failure of a class in a game that purports to not shoehorn classes into roles.

Thieves are tantamount to stereotypical healers, minus being able to actually heal.

It stupid. to be perfectly blunt.

So what before the patch necro was that way for a long time.

Theives are still on the top teams even though it’s “stupid” Because they are the best +1ers, the most mobile class, and in the hands of a skilled player can still probably beat every class every build this game has to offer.

Also it’s not just combat mobility for theives.

Necros were not noncombat classes. They shone to the point of needing to get focused in 1vxs, sure, but they were perfectly capable of holding points, decapping, and 1v1s, especially with Lich being a thing.

And a thief being able to do okay in the hands of a skilled player is a given. The problem that needs to be addressed is the comparative effort required to be borderline effective with a thief vs other classes.

Best +1er is an empty trophy title too, because any +1 leads to loss on the outnumbered if the +1ing player is not incompetent.

And they are the most mobile -only- if they carry shortbow. Which essentially means that to even play baseline effective (including noncombat decapping and +1s that anyone can do anyway) they have to play a specific weapon set.

What the hell are you talking about non combat classes and combat classes…. Necro being able to 1vx before june?

wow I thought all the people who thought necro is focused due to their power went the way of the dodo…..

That’s completely false, you focus the necro because he has no invulns no blocks no evades so it’s gonna be easier to drop the slow moving class without an o kitten button.

?

That may be true for you, I suppose. I focus necros because they bomb points with wells and hobble anyone fighting for decap.

And Lich form qualifies as an “o kitten” button, imo.

But to each their own I guess? This is about thief being useless.

EDIT: I meant XvXes.

NeXeD.3042:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

NeXeD.3042:

theif is faster, it can +1 fights faster and decap faster, and alot of the time you have no clue it’s coming.

Mesmer is similar but not as mobile

A class that has combat capability but is delegated to “do not fight unless you are helping X fight” is a failure of a class in a game that purports to not shoehorn classes into roles.

Thieves are tantamount to stereotypical healers, minus being able to actually heal.

It stupid. to be perfectly blunt.

So what before the patch necro was that way for a long time.

Theives are still on the top teams even though it’s “stupid” Because they are the best +1ers, the most mobile class, and in the hands of a skilled player can still probably beat every class every build this game has to offer.

Also it’s not just combat mobility for theives.

Necros were not noncombat classes. They shone to the point of needing to get focused in 1vxs, sure, but they were perfectly capable of holding points, decapping, and 1v1s, especially with Lich being a thing.

And a thief being able to do okay in the hands of a skilled player is a given. The problem that needs to be addressed is the comparative effort required to be borderline effective with a thief vs other classes.

Best +1er is an empty trophy title too, because any +1 leads to loss on the outnumbered if the +1ing player is not incompetent.

And they are the most mobile -only- if they carry shortbow. Which essentially means that to even play baseline effective (including noncombat decapping and +1s that anyone can do anyway) they have to play a specific weapon set.