Guild Wars 2

SuperKorean.7345:

By the way, Thief is my most played class. I played Thief for more than 10,000 hours.

I assumed you were joking about this topic. I am upset to be wrong about that.

Thief Shortbow 5 is the most overpowered skill in this game.

[Obnoxious chuckling noises]

If you make mistake , you will die. You cannot run away from Thief mobility.

You assume the thief is close by from a fight you were losing, in which case you experienced a 2v1 or +1. In any situation where you are outnumbered and the people facing you are semi competent, you should down.

If the Thief makes mistake , the Thief will run away and do something else.

You cannot chase down the Thief’s mobility.

SB5 requires 6 init. If you allow a thief to get away with SB5 alone, he or she was plinking you with auto attacks and nothing else.

Even if the Thief lose fights , the Thief can just run away from the fight,
and contribute points by decaping or +1 somewhere else.

This is their job because they can rarely win fights on their own.

Only the Thief can do this, the other 8 classes cannot do this.

See above.

Shortbow 5 Initiative cost should be increased. Or reduce the range down to 600.

no.

And also, Shadow Step cooldown should be 60 sec. Or reduce the range down to 900.

And also, add 20 sec internal cool-down to the “Unhindered Combatant Dash” Trait

Also no.

Stun thieves. make them burn SS, then unload. Any time a thief is not on an unguarded or weakly guarded point, en route to a point, or helping +1, he or she is useless to their team .

Your proposal removes not only their ability to quickly decap but also forces them to respawn on lost fights.

It appears that you’re using the fact that a skilled thief will not down in a lost fight to claim that thief is overpowered, when in fact a thief that loses a fight has not contributed at all to point gain and that totally counts as a win.

This is not the case. It’s merely that thief does not succeed at any role -but- this in the current meta.

Edit:

SuperKorean.7345:

Please Nerf Thief Mobility and buff something else.

I can agree with this and -only- this. Though not to the extent that you wish to nerf mobility.

For my information, what build did you use during the pvp league noted in your sig? DP shortbow? What evade trait?

Dear Anet

Maybe balance less at once, and do your balance patches more frequently?

Sincerely,

Some salty player/Someone tired of meta being too coarsely rebalanced.

There are quite a few builds that are core and still effective. People are getting over the elite spec builds and learning how to counter them, so there are glimmers of relevance here and there.

It generally boils down to your skill with the class, not whether you’re core or not.

Natto.5819:

Yes. When teams is selected, you can switch. If match is started, then you can’t. So if your team argue too long on who will switch, you stuck.

Oh. I guess this can be mitigated by just..building faster?
Maybe some allowance for preset builds can be given to make class switching less painful on a time limit, but other than that figure out what you need and press buttons.

Cynz.9437:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Cynz.9437:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Cynz.9437:

Otokomae.9356:

It’s pretty bad. I mentioned in another thread that I’ve had 4 matches since S6 started that had 3 Thieves vs 3 Guards. Those matches are completely lopsided, of course. We had one match where the Thieves were able to out-rotate the other team, & we ended up winning, with 2 of us tied for Top Kills with just 1 kill each. But the other 3 matches went very differently…

My problem is i can’t switch classes mid of match. So i am stuck with 3 thieves vs 3 DHs…. WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA????

More than half of the community who took the time to vote on the poll that Arenanet put out, asking them if they want it, despite many of us protesting the idea for this specific purpose.

Get ready for DH stack matches. At least Arenanet will know what classes the players feel most confident playing so they can add that to their metrics.

As for right now, though, nobody wants to deal with the elephant in the room called “you’re bad at the game. until you put in the time to get better at it asking for random changes to pvp matches will not help your ego”. Esq.

I don’t mind prof locking, but it was supposed to reduce chance for stacked profs in matches which it didn’t. They just locked professions but did absolutely nothing to algo that stacks profs.

I dont think anyone ever said they were going to reduce the chance that classes be stacked / enforce class locking/ matchmaking. Afaik, that was wishful thinking on the part of the community without any solid evidence that it would take place.

If I’m wrong though, please correct me.

It doesn’t matter whether it was wishful thinking or not, whole reason why locking profs came in picture is BECAUSE devs said they can’t do anything about prof stacking unless they lock profs. Instead of addressing stacking issue they just locked profs.

… ?

It does matter because we’re dealing with profession locking without team balance right now.

This is in fact the only situation where a quote of a dev saying they intended to balance the profession spread along with locking would matter.

Natto.5819:

You can still switch characters.

Can you? In a match?

Evan Lesh.3295:

Are you saying you would always take those two sigils for every build?

I’m interested in the idea, but I’m going to chime in and say that I am going to take the revelation sigil if there is a thief in the match if my build has at least one open slot.

EDIT: On second thought, I may not. Revelation isnt largely going to affect thieves because if they are this close to you they are most likely planning to attack. It boils down to how long the reveal is for. I may have a slot open since hydromancy has taken a hit, but I’ll play around with the others and see what works.

I may not always have need of this sigil, and this may be needless to say, but keep in mind that stealth is a large part of thief damage mitigation, and being able to strip that on a weapon swap needs to be weighed very carefully .

Edit: Just remembered Cloak and Dagger is a thing. this sigil is a direct counter to cloak and dagger. The presence of this sigil makes taking dagger offhand potentially pointless. (more than it is now)

Cynz.9437:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Cynz.9437:

Otokomae.9356:

It’s pretty bad. I mentioned in another thread that I’ve had 4 matches since S6 started that had 3 Thieves vs 3 Guards. Those matches are completely lopsided, of course. We had one match where the Thieves were able to out-rotate the other team, & we ended up winning, with 2 of us tied for Top Kills with just 1 kill each. But the other 3 matches went very differently…

My problem is i can’t switch classes mid of match. So i am stuck with 3 thieves vs 3 DHs…. WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA????

More than half of the community who took the time to vote on the poll that Arenanet put out, asking them if they want it, despite many of us protesting the idea for this specific purpose.

Get ready for DH stack matches. At least Arenanet will know what classes the players feel most confident playing so they can add that to their metrics.

As for right now, though, nobody wants to deal with the elephant in the room called “you’re bad at the game. until you put in the time to get better at it asking for random changes to pvp matches will not help your ego”. Esq.

I don’t mind prof locking, but it was supposed to reduce chance for stacked profs in matches which it didn’t. They just locked professions but did absolutely nothing to algo that stacks profs.

I dont think anyone ever said they were going to reduce the chance that classes be stacked / enforce class locking/ matchmaking. Afaik, that was wishful thinking on the part of the community without any solid evidence that it would take place.

If I’m wrong though, please correct me.

Reaper Alim.4176:

A.) Pay people to throw matches for you.

I’m curious how we would deal with this.

Reward the person if they come forward with proof that they assisted in match manipulation, and account ban the person who paid? Because if the intention is made that both of them are to be banned nobody is going to be stupid enough to get themselves suspended.

Not that I think this is a big issue. I think a lot of this anger is people being slapped with reality after thinking they’re the finest [class here] to play pvp and not being able to handle it/making their team suffer because they cannot handle it, but this is a good point, and I can see it happening.

Brockolosso.8316:

By that youd give the enemy team 5 free points every 30sec

This.

Cynz.9437:

Otokomae.9356:

It’s pretty bad. I mentioned in another thread that I’ve had 4 matches since S6 started that had 3 Thieves vs 3 Guards. Those matches are completely lopsided, of course. We had one match where the Thieves were able to out-rotate the other team, & we ended up winning, with 2 of us tied for Top Kills with just 1 kill each. But the other 3 matches went very differently…

My problem is i can’t switch classes mid of match. So i am stuck with 3 thieves vs 3 DHs…. WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA????

More than half of the community who took the time to vote on the poll that Arenanet put out, asking them if they want it, despite many of us protesting the idea for this specific purpose.

Get ready for DH stack matches. At least Arenanet will know what classes the players feel most confident playing so they can add that to their metrics.

As for right now, though, nobody wants to deal with the elephant in the room called “you’re bad at the game. until you put in the time to get better at it asking for random changes to pvp matches will not help your ego”. Esq.

Ben Phongluangtham.1065:

Thorniss.2301:

I don’t understand how the matchmaking would be more “accurate” if yes win; it will be just profession based instead of account based, or am I missing something?

The idea is that, just because you are a great mesmer, doesn’t mean you know how to play a revenant well. If the professions were locked we could place you into a match that reflects your skill with that class.

I think this is somewhat putting the cart before the horse in the sense that you are using the assessed skill of a player to determine team comps, unless you are planning to balance based on the possibility that the classes that have a low skill floor are probably going to rise with more prominence and take up a greater majority of the team comp on both sides for mid and high level play, which may actually push other comps out of proper matchups.

Example: Player pool A picks up a specific build because it is easy to play and thus net more wins vs their opponents in Player pool B (which generally consists of novices) in general matches.

As a result the matchmaking system assesses this and begins pairing these builds/players with each other. Player pool C, who have been doing well in general matches (Vs Player pool B ) as well, with a different build/profession than Player pool A, get paired in these matchups but suffer because their comps do not fit the matchup. Player pool C thus:

>eventually gets placed in matchups with player pool B due to losses assessed by matchmaking

>conforms to Player Pool A and uses this build to play matches because it is easier to deal with.

This is probably going to be painful for anyone not playing that profession, but it is just a theory and may not reflect what actually happens. The diversity and freedom of build choice/swapping allows niche builds to flourish. If you take that away I’m pretty sure people are going to follow the path of least resistance and fall back harder on established meta builds, which may lead to more boring matches at high level.

Don’t fight the warrior when he’s red

Boiled down argument.

If you think it’s the best set and you arent skilled enough to use it effectively: no

Because someone told you to: no

If you are good at the content and more concerned with clearing it fast than clearing it in a unique, innovative or interesting way: yes

If you are comfortable enough with your skills and playstyle to know how to avoid dying with zero toughness on your content of choice: yes (Note: being caught with zero defensive skills and zero stamina in a red circle disqualifies you from this description)

If you are a subset of the prior class and occasionally blunder: Hybrid Valkyrie, then yes.

Ben Phongluangtham.1065:

Abelisk.4527:

What do you think? Should top stats affect rating loss/gain? What if by gaining all top stats in a losing team the player loses no points at all?

No. I don’t want to encourage people to go after top stats over winning the game.

impressive.

dmndbcK.3425:

aren’t willing to learn to become better at the game.

Maybe this

Emdrix.6124:

Vicky.4563:

I am so confused. Why are people acting like swapping to counter is a bad thing to the point we need to hide enemy team comp?

Um, why is this bad? Why do we need to hide enemy team comp? Are we just supposed to run blind and then strategize and not strategize splits beforehand?

Like I realize that’s what people in bronze do, but I have no desire to see that sort of randomness anywhere outside of bronze hell.

because counter comping is not skill. Its just build wars 2. Oh look enemy team has 3 thieves lets just all swap to DH. EZ win so much skill.

What if the team you’re fighting is all dragonhunters and you decided to play thief?
Gonna abandon the match?

Or are we just not going to queue at all if we dont have enough people playing different things?

martin.1653:

Kir Sakar.3647:

Chill, you realize that a new LS episode came out? And a new raid? …

Why chill? Is it so hard to make couple of posts about their plans? Is the information in some way confidential? Is someone gonna get stabbed in the eye if they release information on future plans?

Are they building up some momentum for something? Because so far the only momentum building up is people leaving because it’s hard to say few words to community.

Baffling how a company that big that lives off community doesn’t know basics of community communication.

Your inability to chill could easily be part of the problem if what you yourself are saying is true.

Yes they’re silent, yes this could be a problem. However, whining about this fact when it is almost guaranteed that anything they say in the way of plans is going to be met with whining as well, the easier course is not say anything.

It’s pretty difficult to make balance changes in general to this game state. Let them work it out. If you try to rush them and they end up listening to you they’ll blunder and we’ll have to live with it for half a year.

denkadoll.1405:

i dont care about players doing pve and stuff. the point is they are gonna lose all competetive players by not giving any info.

Note: Screaming “Your game is dying” when they can pull up metrics and disprove you gives devs good reason to not even click the link. This IS a problem, yes; but it isn’t game-killing. It’s the decay of a facet of a game-mode you personally enjoy.

As for why they aren’t communicating, look at the pvp community. If I personally had to speak to this facet of my game on balance changes and incoming fixes I’d take my sweet time to tailor literally everything to ensure I didn’t fall on my face and/or spark more outrage than is the norm. PvP players are generally much easier to upset, from what I’ve seen.

All that being said there was just a poll on “Do you still want class stacking?” So they’re watching. They probably just dont have comments yet.

I say no. Players should be allowed to adjust their comps on their own, instead of relying on the Matchmaking system to hold their hand.

That being said, the matchmaking system will also not allow for exceptions, such as people that are incredibly good at a specific class and can fill multiple roles. Itll just chuck them in the long queues as well.

I know the majority of people are going to say “yes, disallow class stacking people are too lazy to switch” and that is indeed the case, but I don’t think that forcing someone to play a class, regardless of what they’re up against, is exactly going to help matters.

Please allow memes a two year curing period before attempting to integrate them into established media.

I’m impressed with how HoT is unfolding.

If any devs happen to be reading this, please accept my appreciation for how polished the expansion has turned out to be.

Please, though, do not get lax. I’d like this to be the bar of the quality I can expect from Anet, not the peak.

I currently work with Hitfilm Studio. The express version is free and they sell plugin packs that can take care of most things you don’t get with just the base version.

TemplarOmega.7384:

So i see the Golden wings glider combo is back on store.

Could you please bring back the White wings glider combo as well? Please?

Ugh. Didnt even see these.

Would like the golds to return for more than 3 days so I can actually become aware of it.

Probably around the time that other class mains stopped getting carried and now can’t accept the fact that they can’t read the most telegraphed animations in the game? :y

If anything warrior has steadily been getting weaker as a core class, people just don’t dodge.

Oh we’re doing this again? Dohohoho~
(This was fun, wouldn’t mind a rez frankly.)

What: Instant Reflexes
Why: Thieves should be punished for being hit by taking damage. It’s already bad enough that they perma evade everything you throw at them just by playing normally, but now if you manage to hit them a little they can do it on autopilot, for two whole seconds.
Simply unacceptable.

Wargameur.6950:

That’s a basic question but I need to go back to the basics sometimes… In which scenario do you HS + steal ?

That’s a mistake on my part, I’m thinking backstab.
editing. I do still have an answer for you though!

That being said, you generally heartseeker/steal if you are leaping through a smoke field. if you steal in HS you will do damage with the HS and you will gain the stealth from your leap (initial leap does not proc revealed). Then your AA flips over to backstab and you can use it immediately for big damage.

You can also use it for juking due to the expectation of this. if you HS one way then steal in the other directon to, say, someone behind you, you can use the stealth from your leap to disengage because people will be carpet bombing the area you were pointing when you heartseeker’d in an attempt to down you in stealth.

saloja.7920:

Hi and thanks in advance for your time and any answers!

I’m a leveling thief and I’ve found I do best about 80% of the time with a d/p weapons combo. The #3 skill is especially fun and useful. I’ve been trying to learn to remember to use steal, but I find it a bit lacluster with the previously mentioned teleport skill in my kitten nal.

I assume I’m wrong and missing something, so what makes steal so good that it deserves to be a class skill? Also, if you could describe some situations where you’d use #3 preferably than steal and vise versa.

Very few guides actually seem to go into effective steal usage.

Thanks!

You’d use #3 if steal is on CD and you need to apply a blind on an incoming attack/prevent an incoming attack from landing while you put yourself in melee range.

Steal can/ can be traited to:

*Rip boons. (Good for ruining engies, taking stability from heavies)
*Daze. (Good for interrupting powerful kills with obvious cast times)
*deliver an attack from 1200 range. (you may precast backstab, sword 3 and bound then steal to drop it on a foe)
*Gain life/deal damage. (Good for pegging that guy trying to run away)
*Traverse obstacles with some cases not requiring line of sight (You can steal up ledges without wasting initiative)
*Reset fights. (Although Shadow Arts is one of the less popular branches right now due to how much it costs you outside of WVW, resets sometimes have practical application in conquest. Sometimes. *

These are general cases, there are others.

You use DP 3 if:

*You have line of sight.
*You are in range.
*The above two are true and you may need to apply a blind. Generally, steal is for, as the name implies, people unaware of your presence. It is an opener first and foremost, and then practical in game. When you are targeted by an enemy, youd mostly be relying on DP3 when needed to get in close and apply blinds.

Rambitshouse.8712:

Was wondering if there are any thief commanders builds out there? Or even small havoc builds they could share?

For Havoc Builds, run Marauder for armor, Zerker for weapon set and adjust for vitality with Valkyrie pieces as needed for earrings/rings/back/amulet (Unless you are cond.) . Your runes will generally be Daredevil runes (again, unless you are a condi spec), and weapon set is generally D/P – Staff.

There are a couple of different ways to play havoc thief, because that is essentially what the thief is built for as a class.

For Commanding, Never Ever Take Thief as Commander What Are You Nuts. Their health pool is too low and their dependency on stealth for tankier builds is useless when you are leading a large group of people that are not stealthed.

I dont get it.

As long as a boss has a fair attack pattern, dps builds will become the meta as soon as we know how to fight the boss, because knowing what to expect from the boss minimizes damage taken from the boss.

Forcing people to take damage just so they wont spec glassy (which I believe was an argument proposed earlier) seems to be proposed for all the wrong reasons. It appears that those making this argument just want to stop people from using popular builds because they are popular without understanding why.

I said this before, and I’ll say it again. If a warrior is confident he will not be struck, he will not take a bulky shield with him. He would be better suited putting his effort into doing damage than lugging around defense he does not have use for. Whether or not he is a fool depends wholly on how talented he is as a warrior. Forcing someone who knows the gameplay to take defense for no other reason than “It’s what you’re supposed to do” is nothing more than an annoyance to them.

Avigrus.2871:

What about legendary sigil, where you can maintain the sigil, but change the sigil type, eg change from force, to sigil of fire like changing stats on a legendary…mnmmm?

I’d pay coin for this, but not for perm sigils. Upgrade extractors mean those are permanent anyway.

That being said, the existence of this item would crash the sigil market if obtaining it was even reasonably easy, so might not be that interested in having it made.

Lukas.7159:

sure you can fullcap, but if meanwhile your whole team dies 4v5, you think you can hold the node if they gonna push it then? not really hu

This is something to consider as well. Be sure the thief isn’t decapping only because the rest of your comp is fragile or cannot sustain long enough for them to cap before thinking they doesn’t know what they’re doing.

The problem could easily be they don’t trust the rest of your squad not to die.

Exedore.6320:

Magnito.6187:

I actually remember myself almost always teamqueueing back then, just because it was better pvp. (and that wasn’t always with a team myself)

Same. The old solo queue was complete crap. It was full of the “solo queue heroes” who didn’t care about working as a team to win the match. Meanwhile the team queue, even if you queued by yourself, was people who realized they needed to work together.

….

Working as intended?

Thief has a minuscule intermediate skill bracket. Because of the nature of the class you either are a bad thief or an outstanding one most likely.

Thieves were decap bots until just recently, but due to some recent buffs and struggle from the playerbase they are slowly working back into the 1v1 scene.

If your thief is not fast and will not decap far despite having time, that’s not a class failing. If they died at mid and they werent 1vX, that’s not a class failing either.

I’d be fine with dodging less if..yknow.. I could take a hit

Of course, pressing 3,3,3,3 should not get you damage output AND invul, but I dont think anything else needs to be touched regarding that unless we also get a boost in vitality.

Menyus.4610:

how about balancing the game to my skill level? And not to some special snowflake kids playing 28 hours a day…..

We don’t need this whole game being faceroll, but I get what you’re saying.

RE: Helseth’s point

If that is the case, Thief needs a rework. ‘optimizing’ a thief is difficult in itself and involves long periods of conditioning compared to the classes it already has a bad matchup to to even function at baseline.

If a properly played thief is insane and thus needs to have a bad matchup in order to compensate for the fact that the player has devoted time and energy to BE insane with the class, you’re reducing everyone who is even marginally below that devotion line to decap bots. Thieves were just there and I am pretty sure nobody liked that.

At some point there’s going to need to be acceptance that people willing to put in the work with thief eventually earn their keep. It can’t just be “nerf thief because thief played well is insane” while anything below competitive perfection is garbage. You need to start looking into countering players instead of the class if you’re getting to that point, if that makes any sense.

Idk about anyone else, but I see something inherently wrong with deciding to weaken a class because of the performance of a specific player, when the class itself is of weak constitution. That strength should be attributed to whoever has made themselves that formidable and not taken as the guiding hand for toning down.

Shaogin.2679:

Not that I agree with OP at all, but not really sure what you are talking about. There is no chill on scythe auto attack chain, as far as I remember only two random auto procs apply chill (one in spite, one in reaper), and Deathly Chill applies a single stack of bleeding. Maybe I just missed the sarcasm?

Sarcasm Tic:

(:y)

riiight there ^.

I don’t actually think any class needs a nerf atm (I only have issue with Spear of Justice as a skill).

Least of all necros. That being said, I found it silly that a selection of the most recent classes to get off of the chopping block of near-unviability are being tossed back up with suggested nerfs that don’t match the reason OP thinks the class are overpowered in the first place.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Everyone knows it.

Time to act. All fair minded players need to support this initiative. For too long have these professions kept the others down with their op kitten.

Warrior = too much sustain for the mad burst.
Thief = way too much sustain and evasion for the mad dps. It warps the game and is way too good.
Mesmer = too much invuln whilst they pump out passive condis.

My proposals:
Reduce pulmonary impact damage by 25%. Passive dps should not be so good when thief has a spammable insta cast ranged interrupt. Like really…
The shield block on mesmer needs fixing to not slow the enemy, it does way too much
Mesmer distortion is too long in duration. Increase cooldowm to 1 minute.
warrior is annoying. Reduce the damage of greatsword whirl by 25% and also f1 mace should not apply blind and 3 stacks of bleed not 4

these are minor nerfs. But they will help for fairness.

All of this is fine if we can shave a second of scythe AA chill and slightly tone down deathly chill damage. Necros proc it by breathing.

(:y)

coro.3176:

Okay, so what is the counterplay for classes without stability then?

The initial spear is too fast for any normal human to react to, so that rules out reflects and dodges. It’s unblockable, so that rules out predicting when the DH will use it and preemptively blocking.

A few classes have invulns, but they’re on long cooldowns compared to spear. Some classes have auto-proc cc traits like Last Stand which cancel cc, but these are skillless and should be removed from the game.

What is .. for example, a base ranger supposed to do when facing a DH? They’re GOING to get speared. They’re going to get pulled, guaranteed, and they’re going to eat some traps. They can’t do anything about it.

WTB active counterplay

I’d like to note for posterity that active counterplay has been agreed upon as “running away.”

At what point did dodging a telegraphed move (hunters verdict) become unacceptable counterplay?

I also don’t understand how asking for a visual cue on dodging a potentially damaging move (spear of justice for -> hunters verdict). is considered lazy or otherwise frowned upon. Isnt active display of skill like seeing something coming and evading it supposed to be encouraged?

Either give us one (A telegraph on Spear of Justice) , or the other (a dodgeable hunters verdict). You cant just cap your argument as "run away, damage is part of the game, you’re gonna get hit with something :y " as your argument and expect that nonsense to just be tolerable. I’m not asking for nerfs to the class, I’m asking for a window to exhibit skill.

Because without it, you’re pretty much saying "Dragonhunters can go to a point, lay damaging traps and sit there, and if anyone comes within 1200 range of them and does not dodge a single fast traveling, low-visibility projectile the DH can yank them without fail into a burst, because the passive/flipover pulls you around and over terrain, gives you pulsing cripple, rips you out of blink/step, and cannot be blocked.

“And the burst will do damage unless you have a passive trait because it’s hard cc and interrupts your kitten skills. "

R O C.6574:

Doesn’t stability stop the pull?

It does, but not every class has access to stability, and fewer still on a cd quick enough to beat out the spear cd if baited.

Running away on a 20sec cd should not be taken as active counterplay. The pvp in this game involves fighting/sitting on a point.

Traps are fine because they can be avoided and predicted, and a few can even be blocked, but the setup mechanic for those traps has a miniscule tell, a fast travel speed, and once connected cripples you. to avoid being pulled, you either have to let the DH cap the point while you try to bait out spear or get in range for the spear if you dont have a 1200 range weapon and risk being sunk into traps.

BigKev.1927:

2. If I’m not mistaken, berserker stance still works the same way, but with resistance added as well. While you have berserker stance up, you cannot get any more conditions applied to you. while resistance is up, you can get conditions applied, but they have no effect on you. Someone confirm this who plays warrior more

Note:

Berserker stance now allows conditions to be placed on you, but they do no effect until the resistance expires. When it expires/the last pulse is corrupted or stolen, you will resume taking damage/ soft cc from conditions.

Justine.6351:

Everything is too strong..

This is the problem, but upon realizing this I have asked myself “is that really a problem?” And have since stopped asking for nerfs (seriously, in jest I still do but I layer it heavily with sarcasm).

Every class now has some kind of grandstanding, overpowered edge that makes them destroy opponents gloriously if specced properly (or, in the case of thieves, evade destruction gloriously). I don’t really think we can start playing whack a mole with the classes anymore and need to focus on getting better with what we have before starting to point the finger to place classes on the chopping block.

The only qualm I have with the current mechanical layout over all the classes is regarding Spear of Justice for DH. (and vehemently so) because it is stepping into the territory of long-range, unblockable, and unevadable skills being given to players (and that should never happen, as I think it is directly against the whole mission statement of what kind of gameplay GW2 said they’d give to the players.) It’s a bit much to have a skill have those three properties and then have its only counterplay be “put 1201 range between yourself and the guard” while the skill applies cripple.

Everything else though? Traps, evades, condispam? W/e. if we see it enough we will learn to play around it.

Starbreaker.6507:

RAWRIORS

No. Bad. Go sit in the corner.

Its mostly matchmaking. DH is strong (and frankly I’m ticked off that spear of justice triggers an unblockable, unevadable hit) but it’s not broken. It fills a purpose and has counterplay.

I don’t know how to fix matchmaking though. maybe there’s a lot more people that are bad than was originally thought, or maybe the pvp season is flooded with pve players looking for shinies. We’ll need more seasons to sort that out.

Amaimon.7823:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Memes need to age for at least one year before they can be integrated into GW2.

Nah, anet needs a year to notice players want something, then another to implement it

Nah, the players change what they want every year so Anet does what it wants.

Kuya.6495:

And to think just a year ago people were harassing warrior mains to change their classes before a match even started.

This, lmao.

Shoehorned into Hambow made me cry

kash.9213:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

kash.9213:

OriOri.8724:

Because I wasn’t aware that thieves could do this and was not prepared to fight her.

Lexander.4579:

hahah, oh wow…

I’m glad at least the regulars here who usually help people out actually answered the question instead of take a bunch of cheep shots, especially since we tell everyone to learn about our class in pvp and wvw forums when they encounter something they don’t know. People get around to registering something at different times than others, not a big deal and it doesn’t hurt hammer out in a thread.

Also wouldn’t hurt to bring a thief alt into pvp lobby and try it out a few times to at least log in the animations you want to look out for, even if you’re not interesting in climbing the ladder it’s still fun to fill out that catalog anyway.

For the most part people only take cheap shots here if you pretend to know what you’re talking about but it’s obvious you don’t .

If you’re new and just plain don’t understand something , usually it doesn’t summon the trolls.

Did you read the thread or where are you going with that? You normally post with reason here even when you just rehash what someone else already posted but it looks like you’re reaching for an argument where there is none in my post.

?

Why is what I said not reasonable?

:y I was just commenting on the nature of the thread, not arguing with you.
I bolded what I was talking about. Examine the OP.

All that being said I’m sure someone reading this post didnt know that, so my post was for them moreso than… a certain person pretending to be new.

Balian.5314:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Balian.5314:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Spartacus.3192:

only half joking

That Bristleback isn’t joking.

The shield stance and double Endure pain ain’t joking either, also what happened to dodge?

Balian.5314:

So are you gonna make more ‘smart’ comparisons? As much as I wanna be neutral, ur arguments and constant comparison of classes meant to fulfil different roles are forcing me to highlight more points on warrior which will eventually fall more in line with OP.

When you’re done with that, we can talk about druid.

This thread ain’t done bashing warriors yet
If Druid gets nerfed again I guess it’s back to super saiyan warrior again for me~

Lol touche

<3

Anyway, did you know u can shield stance trough BB’s burst?
Assuming you have only 1 stack of AH up, u get healed for 1593hp in that 3secs. But of course you can dodge, dodge, or pop endure pain and solely focus on DPSing and CCing the ranger.

Did you also know a warrior’s AA on GS does almost 3x the damage vs Druid staff AA? Or that Druid staff AA hits for 240 dmg (mender/paladin with dolyak runes) while a warrior’s healing signet alone heals for 382hp/s (while running zerker/marauder ammy).

Warrior vs Ranger, just dodge pet burst coz AH + SoR outheals the ranger’s personal dps.

Who do you think has higher crit chance? The Warrior or the Ranger? “But you have CA heals!”, mace f1, mace 3, shield 4 and headbutt. “Oh no! HP low!”, no problem! Pop utility Endure pain when at 60% hp, heal urself by 2124 by the time it’s over (assuming just ONE AH stack). Assuming it ain’t enough (which is impossible when 1v1 vs ranger) auto Endure pain at 50% and regen for another 2124, all the while going yolo on the ranger.

Numbers from build editor. And before we talk about SS, here’s what you can do; dodge, dodge, shield stance, Endure pain, GS #3.

But… who are we trying to kid?! 1 stack of AH?! Naaaaaaaaaah~

My point? Before someone decided to ‘imply’ that my current main is OP, I did not in anyway said Warrs are OP. So let’s stop crying cheese

I’m not crying cheese, I’m just antagonizing you. :y Only a little though. Druids are healbots (There’s no way you can convince me that a sane druid is going to stay in the range of a stun with staff as an option) but I still respect them and think they require skill and technique to play. I actually think that about every class, with some skills rather than mechanics needing tweaking.

(I’m not going to start whining (more) about the range on staff or SS I promise)

Balian.5314:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Spartacus.3192:

only half joking

That Bristleback isn’t joking.

The shield stance and double Endure pain ain’t joking either, also what happened to dodge?

Balian.5314:

So are you gonna make more ‘smart’ comparisons? As much as I wanna be neutral, ur arguments and constant comparison of classes meant to fulfil different roles are forcing me to highlight more points on warrior which will eventually fall more in line with OP.

When you’re done with that, we can talk about druid.

This thread ain’t done bashing warriors yet
If Druid gets nerfed again I guess it’s back to super saiyan warrior again for me~

RE: Bolded point.:

I’d love to have druid heals and SOS instead of 10 seconds of 0 direct damage. Idunno, what -did- happen to dodge? :y
(also disregarding shield stance qualm because shame on you for bashing the only active block war has that doesn’t require you take mace while also bashing its passive mitigation.)

RE: Second Point
Lol touche

Spartacus.3192:

only half joking

That Bristleback isn’t joking.

Balian.5314:

So are you gonna make more ‘smart’ comparisons? As much as I wanna be neutral, ur arguments and constant comparison of classes meant to fulfil different roles are forcing me to highlight more points on warrior which will eventually fall more in line with OP.

When you’re done with that, we can talk about druid.

Zintrothen.1056:

The biggest problems I have with Warrior’s is with Adrenal Health lasting too long, and Mace and GS Berserk Mode F1 skills being too strong.

Adrenal Health I think would be better balanced if it was a short duration (maybe 5 seconds) and healed for more per bar of adrenaline spent. It was OP not because of the amount of healing per second it gave but because it lasted 15 seconds just from hitting a Primal Burst skill. Making it a shorter duration will be more punishing if you miss a burst skill, and it’ll reduce the healing from a Warrior running away.

Why do warriors need to be punished -more- for whiffing burst?
That being said: fine, I guess? We already got gutted a long time ago from losing adren on whiff, this won’t be much different as most of the warriors have adapted and learned methods to set up burst. I think it’s needless, but that may be because I play warrior.

Mace Primal Burst does far too much. It’s a lot like Surge of the Mist. One skill just shouldn’t do so much all at once. Skull Grinder cripples, blinds, confuses, bleeds, blasts, surges forward (no leap finisher thank God), and dazes, and does some mean power damage in addition to being a condition damage attack too. All this is on a 2.5 second CD (traited). Something needs to go. Nothing should blind and daze at the same time, nothing should apply 4 stacks of confusion and bleeding while also doing powerful power damage at the same time, and why does it blast? There’s nothing about the skill that explodes. It actually leaps more than explodes. So, my suggestions for the skill:

- Remove either the blind or the daze.
- Reduce the power damage significantly or remove either confusion or bleeding. I suggest confusion if you remove the daze.
- Remove the blast finisher. Do no add a leap finisher unless you do both the previous points
- Keep the crippling.

Fine with removing Either blind or Daze. *
*Generally against removing the confusion/bleeding as this would affect condi builds.
Leap might be fine. thinking about that.

GS Primal Burst does more damage below 50% than the regular Burst form. The biggest issue with this skill isn’t that though. It’s the fact that it hits so far away from the Warrior, while also critting for potentially 25-50% of someone’s hp, depending on the player. If someone’s trying to carefully keep out of range, they shouldn’t be hit so hard from so far way. GS has other skills to get close, but we don’t need use that now. All we need to is press F1 and hit 5 things in a 450 radius. So, my suggestions are:

- Reduce the range to 240 radius.
- Reduce its damage to something between the Burst version and the Primal Burst version

Range reduction is fine (not agreeing with 240 as acceptable), but DPS is not. Either you get punished for facetanking an arc divider or you evade or block it. Arc divider has a range increase to make connecting with it easier with GS. It would be too steep a drop to scale back both of those at the same time, IMO.

Actually, no to all of this. Arc divider sacrifices DPS for range, so I disagree with any change to dial that back at this time.

After all this, ditch the Endure Pain auto proc trait and replace it with something that takes skill.

Like? Examples please.

Memes need to age for at least one year before they can be integrated into GW2.

Kahrgan.7401:

If they just get rid of the passive endure pain all together, it would still be a strong team fighting class, but not able to stand in zergs with the enemy unable to do anything to them for 30 seconds (ish). That’s simply too much.

A note for this.

I don’t trust you to make good judgements on the state of this class if you think that endure pain allows warriors to stand in zergs for 30 seconds (ish) without having anything happen to them. Even if that’s hyperbole, you’re sending the wrong message.

It’s ten seconds if you take both traits, and that doesn’t prevent condition damage. Critique is fine, but make sure you get the numbers right so you can make proper suggestions for downscaling, instead of just moving for gutting intrinsic parts of the class. Warriors -just- got out of the “unviable” tier with the tweaks to berserker, and even now they still have a considerable struggle with duels because they have active blocks and wide, sweeping animations that make them easy to dodge and predict. They have no ports, blinks, steps, or stealth to add unpredictability to their game, so being able to just grit their teeth and shrug off damage for a couple of seconds is the solution to that (And, for that matter, being able to do any of the aforementioned would be a thematic conflict.)

Necros get focused, yes, but their reaper spec is beginning to address this and turn them into on point brawlers as well. If you’d like to avoid that focus altogether, I’d suggest pushing for added mobility at the cost of life force build rate or something to that effect. The fact that necros get focused is due to the nature of their class specifically, not because “they can’t do anything about it.”