bug fixing
/15pocketraptors
lol you guys serious with some of these responses? This is why they don’t like communicating with us.
Far more people agree with anet/azure type of attitude.
And they’re wrong. It’s counter-productive to move at a snail’s pace with balance changes. The game will never have perfect balance, and all moving slowly does is frustrate players by leaving broken things untouched for far too long and allowing gameplay to stagnate.
While this is true, If what is currently the league system is an example of Anet rushing out an event, I’d rather the wait.
Lesser of two evils, as I said before. I would vastly prefer a sweeping change followed by several frequent iterations of microbalancing to prevent the meta from becoming the horrendous creature it is currently.
All I want is something that works. I shouldn’t have to hope that after the balance patch the classes I chose to play will still be fun, rewarding, and capable in the class relation mesh. However they choose to get there is fine by me.
Half-month balance patches isnt working, but if leagues is any indication of large system changes implemented suddenly, I’d prefer they iron out the intricacies and take an extra month or two. I have other hobbies.
This isnt even about “balancing is too slow” anymore. That’s established. I’m looking for “What is needed for a release that ‘X class’ is not completely useless?”.
’Cause the only thing worse than having to take a hiatus while the meta is fixed is to come back and realize the meta has, in fact, become more two dimensional.
I dont know how the balance team handles their releases. That is why I suggested getting information on how feedback is accepted. Do they rush to implement changes as soon as imbalances are noted? Do they value our input at all, and test claims against the numbers they see on the pseudo-back end? If we had any inkling as to what they considered a reasonable suggestion and the format thereof, whoever is decent at X class could provide these suggestions and get the data ready for the balance team in a neat little package so that, whether or not they move quickly or slowly, the end result is something that works at least a little better than the past release.
It’s not about time for me anymore. Just get it to a working state is all I need.
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
I’m all for the balance patch, but I’d like to note that it has come to my attention, moreso now than ever, that much of the community doesn’t know what it wants in regards to global, widely-accepted balancing that affects one, several, or the relationships between classes and the cascading changes that those balances make to pvp, pve, and the components thereof.
I don’t know how much of our input the devs value and accept for these changes, or what format this input has to be in to be considered fair and valid (and, perhaps, that could be a topic of discussion so we can tailor our posting regarding this topic appropriately), but I’d rather:
- not rush this patch
- continue to vocalize the aspects of the game I am familiar enough with to see as strong or weak
And hope that the patch either provides a happy medium or the beginnings of one with iterations close behind to smoothen the transition.
We only get them twice a year. I can wait longer for one if it gives the game as a whole six months of relative peace between classes.
So yes, we need it. But let’s not hasten it.
You would be ok waiting longer than 6 months for balance patches? Are you a PvE-only player?
Because balance every 6 months is really really bad for PvP. And to make it worse, the current state of balance is an absolute disaster (again, I’m talking PvP). You have pro teams rage-quitting live during tournaments (mid-game no less) because of the lack of balance.
Of course WvW is being hit just as bad (or worse) by the current state of balance, but it’s got even more serious problems at the moment (Deserted BL).
If you just looked five-ish posts up you might have seen
I agree with this.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that I am at all happy with waiting six months for a balance patch. In fact, its probably more irritating than anything I’ve seen as far as restructuring in the history of mmos.
All I’m saying is that the lesser of two evils is 6 month wait, get it right, versus 6 month wait, make things worse.
I’d prefer quicker iterations to the both of them. I’m just not certain how well the balance team would handle that.
Whimsical, right?
Also I almost never leave heart of the mists.
I also only have experience with the hardest hit classes in the meta at the moment.
And Im borderline furious with what theyve done to thieves.
So. Take what you want from that. I think that it would be worse if things were rushed. Common sense lends itself to that.
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
While I agree with the thoughts about junk sigils/runes, I cant help but laugh at how much hatred they’re garnering by suddenly occupying space in people’s inventories.
for me no ( i don’t play ele often ) . the reason is simple . if you can not go through diamond skin with your direct damage it is a problem of your build…. too lower direct damage .
What about those builds that open with a condi bomb?
Azure — I admire your way of thinking and I think that level of thoughtfulness will give us highly valuable feedback. Thanks.
I don’t know. I think that attitude is common but, IMO, it’s actually not the best way to address balance and I think it’s one of the reasons the forums tend toward negativity.
You don’t want to over knee-jerk, but endless deliberation is every bit as counter-productive. Balance will never be perfect, it’s better to accept that and to iterate on balance on a much faster pace than once every 3 months. It makes it more likely things will be overlooked for months to years on end (which has always been the case in GW2) and would keep players more engaged by shaking up the meta frequently.
I agree with this.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that I am at all happy with waiting six months for a balance patch. In fact, its probably more irritating than anything I’ve seen as far as restructuring in the history of mmos.
All I’m saying is that the lesser of two evils is 6 month wait, get it right, versus 6 month wait, make things worse.
I’d prefer quicker iterations to the both of them. I’m just not certain how well the balance team would handle that.
Yes and no.
Yes because the elementalist is overpowered with it, no because the elementalist is too frail without it.
+1 for rework. Whoever implemented that trait somehow found the finest line between destruction and invulnerability and seated elementalist right on the middle of it. I’m still trying to figure out if that’s a stroke of genius or just the worst luck in the world. (best luck in the world?)
It isn’t a noob trap. It’s good in every situation where it is not overshadowed by improvisation.
which is like… 10% of all common situations.
It would be better if it applied slow on a CD of [redacted] length. That way we could apply executioner strikes to those quick-to-run-away elementalists.
I’m running:
Zerk Amulet
Strength/Discipline/Defense.
Forceful Greatsword, Defy Pain, Shield Master, Spiked armor, zerker’s power.
Triple Stances. Healing Signet.
Axe/Shield, GS.
Strength Runes
Hydromancy, battle on Axe/SH. Fire, Battle on GS.
Strategy: get close. Swap every 5 seconds. watch HP for losing tide on swap to GS.
if(losing)
runaway();
if(winning)
fight_with_GS();
once Swap CD is up, swap while near opponent for chill proc and ruin defensive skill cooldowns while you shield bash/evisc. If opponent is not dead, spin for vulnerability and autoattack while zerker power proc is up.
return to start.
If opponent is ranged, reflect the burst that can be reflected and get close by crippling with axe throw/ advancing with GS 3. save all bursts for < 100 range. If [YOU CAN NOT ADVANCE], run away.
Stances should be applied as needed. Common sense.
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
I have 3k armor . Is this a balanced game in yor opinion?^
Better question.
Would you say not dying if you have 3k armor is balance?EDIT : sure you got hit for 10k, but we dont know anything about buffs, debuffs, or any other external factors.
And by an attack as easily dodged as Kill Shot, no less.
Dear Azure please read this and hopefully some dev will too.
You guys have no idea how many people didn’ t buy hot and how many people have actually quitted the game after buying hot for this unbalance game status.
Myself i can count at least 10 of my friends.
Immagine what will happen when games like black desert online and blade and soul are out.
What truly confuses me is that Azure I gave you evidence of a 10k shot saying that i have 3k armor, ( everyone knows that that skill is overpowered ) and you even attack me denying what i m saying?^ XDI truly hope that devs don t share your same way of analyzing problems Azure.
I have no words.
(Read: I don’t feel like it right now)
Coffee break.
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
The funny thing, Thief is arguably as good if not better than DH at a competent level.
I’d agree with you if strategy alone was the deciding factor. yes, you can range a DH down since they have sunk all their damage into traps and easily dodgeable projectiles.
That does not make them worse, though. Being able to kill an opponent without being present with traps that only have a half-second tell, that only shows when you’re right on top of the trap, that lasts…five minutes I think? without a range limit gives more reward for the skill required than thief ever does. Competency should, at all levels, be based on skill. That’s the main problem here.
It’s the turret engie problem all over again. At what point does being able to drop all utilities on, say, a point, and then do nothing but [wait until someone dies/pull them into your deathtrap if they decide to get close enough] require what is widely accepted skill, training, or talent?
And yet these strategies work, and often times work better than other strategies that are so complex and frail that they require cooldown counting just to keep the player alive?
Hogwash. Even if they are easy to range down. Then the build sponges in all the scumbag personality players that like to brag about how good they are because they memorized (press 7, 8, 9, then autoattack until someone decides you’re annoying).
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
I have 3k armor . Is this a balanced game in yor opinion?^
Better question.
Would you say not dying if you have 3k armor is balance?
EDIT : sure you got hit for 10k, but we dont know anything about buffs, debuffs, or any other external factors.
And by an attack as easily dodged as Kill Shot, no less.
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
I bet OP is the same guy that was moaning all match that i was playing thief, threated to afk, spent more time actually talking crap than playing and asked everyone to report me for botting because i was playing a thief. At the end we won and that guy got reported by our team for verbal abuse. Moral of the story? Shut up and play.
Let me guess: was he the DH?
[+1 Reserved for if battleship was sunk]
Update: +1 Bestowed. Good show.
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
I’m all for the balance patch, but I’d like to note that it has come to my attention, moreso now than ever, that much of the community doesn’t know what it wants in regards to global, widely-accepted balancing that affects one, several, or the relationships between classes and the cascading changes that those balances make to pvp, pve, and the components thereof.
I don’t know how much of our input the devs value and accept for these changes, or what format this input has to be in to be considered fair and valid (and, perhaps, that could be a topic of discussion so we can tailor our posting regarding this topic appropriately), but I’d rather:
And hope that the patch either provides a happy medium or the beginnings of one with iterations close behind to smoothen the transition.
We only get them twice a year. I can wait longer for one if it gives the game as a whole six months of relative peace between classes.
So yes, we need it. But let’s not hasten it.
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
then:Nerf Thieves and Warriors, they are too powerful to fight
now:Ban Thieves and Warriors, they aren’t strong enough to team with
Honestly, and nothing against the op, but [redacted] the community whining that got us here.
Having to eat the cake you baked for yourself is just punishment.
Probably.
It depends on how much more sand a sandbag has to have in order to endure invuls, blocks, and blinds long enough to counterattack sufficiently.
Personally I think warrior HP pool is fine. I run around with zerker, even. There’s something off in the core gameplay of Warrior that I cant put my finger on, so I cannot elaborate on it just yet.
I enjoy it a hell of a lot more than thief when I am not fighting a thief.
Haha, now I want a herring dagger skin.
+1
a diamond thief
signet of malice.
My condolences, Asuna.
[Legendary PVP Thief]
Dude….Isn’t this old news? Its been discussed before. So all your trying to do is stir kitten up for the luls. Lay off man. I doubt ANYONE involved wants more of this kitten on the forums. Its a QQ fest as it is. Lets atleast keep it about legitimate reasons as opposed to Drama.
This too.
We’re all pretty tired. Just kind of.. whatever, let Anet sort it out.
I’m saddened that it’s gotten to the point that the players who are acting as the lifeblood for this push for Guild Wars’ ascension to e-sports have to literally quit in tournament games to make a point.
I don’t really know what to say anymore.
Maybe this is drama. Maybe this is expected behavior for attempting to run a tournament without first balancing classes.
Whatever.
6-0 is too far.
Look at your hands. if you’re moving with WASD/steering with the mouse, why the heck would you move either hand to use a utility?
bind 6-0 to something that doesnt require you to stop doing something else.
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
all classes should have to work for their wins like thief and war
omg you’re so selfish
lmao
I mean come on, being completely aware of where trap spec classes are at all times so you can see them place their traps even if they break line of sight or are across the map, is just standard L2p.
This doesn’t really hold up as you could use the same argument against plenty of stuff that’s already implemented in game. Why give Scrappers the ability to mass AOE reveal? They should be able to anticipate where the thief is when stealthed. L2P
And yes, it’s not difficult to see a DH lay down a trap, but in a game where your attention is being pulled in multiple directions I don’t think it’s ridiculous to suggest some sort of panacea for the class that already has to out play their opponents by a wide margin in order to have any hope of being successful.
Also I’m not saying this is something that should be done, just that I think it’s an interesting idea that would be thematically appropriate. One of many alternatives to just upping base damage and damage coefficients.
Because when the balance patch rolls around, and they “balance” thief by just cranking the numbers higher, people are going to wish they had done something as simple as just letting thieves see traps.
Apparently my sarcasm was not loud enough
Pardon me.
HUGE BLARING LIGHTS
Seeing a DH anywhere at anytime is standard l2P, You should totally be able to see everything because omniscience is a hallmark of the human race.
SIREN NOISES
But yes, you’re right.
I think warrior is still fun if you run complete yolo zerker.
You can scare people into playing defensive if you get up in their face, that’s always a thing that makes me smile.
That being said, it has poor matchups versus anyone that knows both their class and the warrior’s class.
I..guess that’s the point, maybe. Strong, but easily outmatched by anyone with a high-functioning brain, like a classic bruiser.
Eh.
I’d rather not reflect on how other classes have more comfortable traits, because we have some good ones too, and just pointing at X class and saying “hay, he has it better” is missing the point.
For all the people who claim thief was OP at some point in time I ask them this one question:
“When in the entire history of GW2 was taking 2 thieves meta?”
Thank You
Tell me, before HoT, when was not taking a thief even a possibility ?
No need to lie between ourselves, we were great for a long time.
Yes to the first quote, less so to the second.
Yes, thieves were great for a long time, that much is true.
However, their use in PVP was moreso because they were the only class that could stealth decap (and the quickest to do so at that), rather than being a decent class for solo combat or small scale fights overall.
They were “mandatory” because if you didn’t have one the thief on the other team would backcap everything without having a counter. It was game utility rather than class advantage.
Thieves may have seemed to be (and, I concede, were) good back when they were the only class able to fill the role they were forced into but their imbalance against other classes became apparent when two thieves were on any one team. At that point the game became a 4v5 due to the thief’s lack in skirmish potential.
The only thing that has changed between that time and now is that other classes can fill the thief’s role, and the thief now has reduced effectiveness against the other classes due to the bunker meta.
The problem was always there, the new meta just exacerbated it.
I believe it is because of the same salt that the other 8 professions refuse to admit we need a buff to complete overhaul. In there eyes it’s our turn smh. Stealth can be completely shut down by other professions even after all these years of nerfs. Some of which wasn’t our fault to begin with like server side culling.
Everyone at some point in their GW2 lives has been ganked by a thief and some people have remained salty ever since.
These two.
When thief was op, the cancerous players that only won by exploiting tactics that were by and large unfair in small scale fights saturated the thief playerbase and formed a reputation of toxicity that the other class mains despised.
Of course, player toxicity doesn’t die with nerfs, it just relocates itself. So when thief actually became the weaker class, the jack-kittens who abused the mechanics that thief otherwise needed to survive moved to the stronger classes like Mesmer and Dragonhunter, taking their toxicity with them, while all the mains of those classes began taking out their saved-up saltiness on the players that dared to remain thief.
Case in point: Every mesmer ever.
like engineer but requires effort?
Hooo hoo hoo hoo
Oh man
Yes, the class is in a bad spot, but you are still viable against unaware people or new players.
Everyone else outsustains you for the most part, except other thieves.
that being said, you can go either condi or power. the moment your damage output becomes reasonable you are vulnerable to melt, so play careful.
Thieves are now the “default win” spec
Since people in Spvp often refuse to play when a thief is on their team, thieves can thus be used as pre-match metagaming to force losses.
Exploit detected
Fix pls Anet
[/I’mstillbitter]
What if thieves could watch for the animations indicating that a trap has been placed, and note the location.
Wait…
This.
I mean come on, being completely aware of where trap spec classes are at all times so you can see them place their traps even if they break line of sight or are across the map, is just standard L2p.
Let’s not buff one of the only good skills we got out of this even more than it already is.
probably nothing, probably the beginning of deathmatch meta.
highlighting player statistics live.
this.
for score to be an accurate gauge of player skill, it needs to be presented in a concise stat sheet that shows information such as:
*points capped
*points defended
*players killed
*players assisted
*objectives captured/completed
*deaths
*time spent on objective capturing
at the like.
Then we can start seeing some real significance in the flat number we have now.
Points do matter, but not to the extent that players should abandon points and secondaries for them.
They cannot, in many cases, be used to determine player skill.
Some go onto the forums for a laugh.
I attest to the following.
If you arent running unhindered, withdraw, or roll, you should have a contingency plan for dealing with reapers.
if not, then that is your builds weakness.
of course, embrace should also clear chill now since it is a “Damaging condition”.
I don’t play ele, so don’t take this opinion as weighty,
But I think starting off with a complete half effectiveness slash to healing on aura and then the outright removal of regen for torrents is a bit much for the first pass.
Yeah, they’re tanky as hell, but should probably start trimming on the upper end instead of reaching into their entrails and pulling out all the heals.
If you’re stuck in Elo hell you deserve it.
90% of escaping Elo Hell is being good enough to work with a team. Once you can do that you are out.
If you cannot find a team and are pugging, it’s because you don’t know how to be a team player.
And as you go, you may even have to refine your team comp and get people that can do their job without being toxic.
[note: if you are solo queuing on purpose then you may not lament elohell]
I don’t think you have enough information to make these claims about percentages or what people do or don’t deserve.
There could be some very good players who are stuck right now.
Conceded. I don’t have the info to make this claim in the slightest. I did however want to draw attention to the fact that escaping elohell requires you:
you cannot solo out of elo hell, especially here. the matchmaker actively attempts to curb your winrate and the only way you can avoid it is by minimizing the chances that youll be sandbagged/ a sandbag yourself.
It stands to reason that there are good players in the seas of mediocre rage-bait, so I’ll revise my opinion on that, immediately.
is what I probably needed to say.
Also: [Insert standard “Nope, 100% of people in Lo-hell deserve it”]
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
While I understand that elementalist has a delicate balance that can be upset by the slightest of nerfs or buffs in many cases, I still cannot find it in me to agree with any scenario in which “don’t fight them” or “1vx” is accepted as a valid strategy.
There should be a hard counter for scenarios like this that doesnt require building specifically against it.
Oh, a thief.
So what about thieves hard countered mesmers before? What was the strategy to that?
L2P?Same situation here imo.
I didn’t even say thief.
What are you doing.
Calm down, that was a stunning gold-medal leap to conclusion city though.
Or perhaps there’s some legitimacy to some of the complaints.
Perhaps some people stuck in “elo hell” don’t individually deserve it.
If you’re stuck in Elo hell you deserve it.
90% of escaping Elo Hell is being good enough to work with a team. Once you can do that you are out.
If you cannot find a team and are pugging, it’s because you don’t know how to be a team player.
And as you go, you may even have to refine your team comp and get people that can do their job without being toxic.
The flaw here, is you’re not considering that they’ve combined 2 different match making rating systems!
Meaning, someone with 2200 MMR could have significant issues in Division 2, while someone with 1400 MMR could have an easier time climbing all the way to Division 5.
What everyone is complaining about, is that legitimately good, long time PvPers appear to be getting stuck in the same division for a long time.
Due to their pre-existing MMR.Which actually makes some sense.
Them having pre-existing MMR, means the system has had a lot of time to figure out where they stand.
The system is less likely to match them up with a team significantly worse than them, because their potential deviation is lower.Where as someone who’s fresher, has a much higher deviation.
Although, this also means it’s more likely that the fresher person will be pitted against someone who’s of significantly higher MMR (and therefore skill) than them.
As a way to “test” them, and try to figure out where they actually stand.So, it should all balance out.
Whether it does or not, who knows.
Oh I’m not even beginning to consider the ranking here.
I’m just speaking generally. We’ve all realized mmr here is a travesty. The game is punishing you for having success as a team comp (more than it should, I should say).
I’m curious about your last point regarding how large the testing range for fresh players with high deviations is, though.
Or perhaps there’s some legitimacy to some of the complaints.
Perhaps some people stuck in “elo hell” don’t individually deserve it.
If you’re stuck in Elo hell you deserve it.
90% of escaping Elo Hell is being good enough to work with a team. Once you can do that you are out.
If you cannot find a team and are pugging, it’s because you don’t know how to be a team player.
And as you go, you may even have to refine your team comp and get people that can do their job without being toxic.
[note: if you are solo queuing on purpose then you may not lament elohell]
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
Except it doesn’t reward being good (in fact, it punishes being good by making it harder to progress, see my post above)
This is a myth, it isn’t easier for a casual to progress. That myth comes from a total misunderstanding of how the matchmaker works.
The matchmaker works on two assumptions:
1) If a player is below 50% W/L then the player is fighting against opponents that are better than the player, and the matchmaker should move them down.
2) If a player is above 50% W/L then the player is fighting against opponents that are below their skill level, and the matchmaker should find better players for them to fight.This leads to a natural equilibrium at 50% win rate where the player is playing against their own skill level.
This does not make it easier for casuals as it just leads to casuals fighting other players at their skill level, while experienced players fight other experienced players at their own skill level.
The entire system just leads to everyone fighting at their own skill level.
So in general, win rate is not a record intended for bragging rights. It is just a flagging system that ensures you are challenged, but not to the point of frustration.
If win rate is going to mean something, it would only have weight in two instances:
in a 1v1 arena. which classes are not balanced for.
in a premade that plays consistently together. (and even then only marginally since there are lots of premades)
I think they need to address the balance so that people will be less inclined to quit mid match, and then remove the dishonor penalty for queues after five minutes.
Because as was said above, the player should not be blamed for wanting to spend his/her time elsewhere if it takes ages to find ten people willing to fight at any point in time.
Don’t get distracted, focus on the shadow kick.
You’re wrongly applying logic to Mortal Kombat — you can’t do that.
BUT
THREE TIMES
I mean yes the shadow kick is amazing let us dye the afterimage but
THREE TIMES
Fine, let’s apply logic.
Raiden regenerates lost limbs in an instant unless you severe the same limb three times. This also apply to his head, thus removing the head one time will never work, and to really kill a god like him is to severe the head three times.
Much better now?
And no, that’s not official.
So what you’re saying is Raiden is a Hydra
Hydra grows two heads to replace one, so no.
Maybe he was a hydra in training?
You can’t rule this out, maybe he only learned how to regen two heads the first time-
At any rate yes. Shadow kick cast time would be amazing, but that’s wishful thinking on an already useful skill at best.
While I understand that elementalist has a delicate balance that can be upset by the slightest of nerfs or buffs in many cases, I still cannot find it in me to agree with any scenario in which “don’t fight them” or “1vx” is accepted as a valid strategy.
There should be a hard counter for scenarios like this that doesnt require building specifically against it.
[Bug fix]
GET UP ON THE HYDRAS BACK-
Don’t get distracted, focus on the shadow kick.
You’re wrongly applying logic to Mortal Kombat — you can’t do that.
BUT
THREE TIMES
I mean yes the shadow kick is amazing let us dye the afterimage but
THREE TIMES
Fine, let’s apply logic.
Raiden regenerates lost limbs in an instant unless you severe the same limb three times. This also apply to his head, thus removing the head one time will never work, and to really kill a god like him is to severe the head three times.
Much better now?
And no, that’s not official.
So what you’re saying is Raiden is a Hydra
Don’t even begin to try to get this removed
I will suplex anyone that removes my clock winding noises.
CC is balanced
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