Guild Wars 2

Ensign.2189:

Cyninja.2954:

Careful here, this is untrue. aproximately 28% of that gold leaves the economy.

If John Smith is remotely competent (note: John Smith is exceedingly competent) then the amount of gold leaving the economy through the gem exchange is exactly 0.

Ah … the difference between exchange rates is there due to the gold sink in the exchange.

I player one pays 20 gold for 100 gems and player two pays 100 gems for 13 gold the change in the number of gems in the exchange is 0 and that 7 gold is removed from the game so the change in gold in the exchange is also 0.

@Wanze

To summarize it’s a take on Confucius philosophy that those that contribute directly to society are more worthy than those that don’t. In the Edo era the order was Samurai, Peasants, Artisans, and lastly Merchants.

• Samurai are willing to die for society.
• Peasants grow the food for society and also fight.
• Artisans create the goods for society but aren’t needed for basic survival.
• And lastly Merchants who make their living on the backs of peasants and artisans and were looked at as parasites, profiting on the work of others.

And while peasants and artisans were relatively poor, some merchants became rich which reinforced the idea that they were merely parasites.

Scalpels.2809:

Behellagh.1468:

ferdi.1452:

Vayne.8563:

Dungeon rewards, the cash part, is what they’re changing. Every time someone does an explorable mode dungeon 1 gold 24 silver is created out of thin air.

That’s bad for the economy.

How’s that bad for the economy?

Because it injects “new” gold into the economy. If it’s not drained away fast enough more gold in the economy leads to classic inflation. So it’s important to keep the total amount of gold within the game, including the gold tied up in the exchange, growing slowly if at all.

And how is buying Gems and then doing currency exchange less of an impact than running a dungeon?

Because the gold someone gets from the exchange was first put there by other players who earned it in game. “New” gold isn’t created. It’s gold that’s already been in the game.

Everything has been about shepherding. Dailies have always been about shepherding. Location of world bosses. The need for exclusive materials from both PvP and WvW to craft certain items. They’ve always felt that players will get the most from the game from doing everything and not just one niche (however wanting most rewards available by all game modes).

Think of the game as an amusement park, an apt analogy of most MMOs, they want to see people in all areas of the park, not just hanging around one part of the park all day riding the same ride over and over again.

Using the terms of software ware development, dungeons are deprecated, unsupported and only there for to support a certain old purpose but is not meant for use by new code.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Behellagh.1468:

ferdi.1452:

Vayne.8563:

Dungeon rewards, the cash part, is what they’re changing. Every time someone does an explorable mode dungeon 1 gold 24 silver is created out of thin air.

That’s bad for the economy.

How’s that bad for the economy?

Because it injects “new” gold into the economy. If it’s not drained away fast enough more gold in the economy leads to classic inflation.

If it was about the economy and inflation they would have added repair costs back or replaced some of this new gold with items like in silverwastes.

John said it himself, armor repair was too small of a sink to matter in the big scheme of things. It wasn’t a deterrent to not dying, it was an annoyance to new players.

And I will talk slowly and in caps so this comes through loud and clear.

ANET DOES NOT WANT PLAYERS TO PLAY DUNGEONS AS FREQUENTLY AS THEY DO TODAY.

It’s not just about the gold coming in, they will be moving some of that to other game areas, they don’t want players playing them just for the rewards. It’s okay for the tokens but that’s it. Rest of you bums, go do the stuff we are willing to work on rather than the stuff we think is broken beyond repair but simply can’t get rid of for story reasons.

They said “liquid assets” which means direct in-game coin.

They said it’s being reduced, not eliminated.

Silverwaste income is primarily made by selling off item drops and not from “liquid assets”.

In the early days of the game the devs would alternately nerf and buff various game modes to encourage more diverse rather than focused play.

The “liquid assets” from dungeons probably should have been nerfed a while ago but it was the simplest attempt at “instanced challenging content” they had but they didn’t have a reasonable replacement in place so they kept it, much to the detriment to the game economy. Especially with the lack of other distracting content during the last 10 months.

Got a key from map completion and 10 chests since the change.

Congrats, you helped some “little brother”/disgruntled roommate/soon to be ex-SO to destroy some player’s account.

maddoctor.2738:

Cyninja.2954:

You are setting equal direct gold loot with gold gained through selling of materials/items.

Then add extra material rewards in dungeons and remove the gold reward completely.

Except ANet doesn’t want players to do dungeons for generic rewards. They want players who aren’t doing them for tokens to go do something the devs are willing to work on. It is their view that they are irrevocably broken as challenging content and contributed to the rise of the Zerk meta which was unintentional on the devs part.

So they are trying to but the Genie back into the bottle without closing them down permanently or making them only story mode.

ferdi.1452:

Vayne.8563:

Dungeon rewards, the cash part, is what they’re changing. Every time someone does an explorable mode dungeon 1 gold 24 silver is created out of thin air.

That’s bad for the economy.

How’s that bad for the economy?

Because it injects “new” gold into the economy. If it’s not drained away fast enough more gold in the economy leads to classic inflation. So it’s important to keep the total amount of gold within the game, including the gold tied up in the exchange, growing slowly if at all.

It’s analogous to printing money. The more money circulating in the entire economy, the less it is worth. The less it’s worth, the more things cost.

The difference is instead of government controlling how much money is printed, players control how much new gold is entering the game by doing those activities that reward the most actual gold, not gold you get from selling items via the TP, actual in-game coin.

So all that ANet can do is either create more sinks, raise the cost of existing sinks, encourage greater use of those sinks or reduce the amount coming in from various sources (NPC sales, direct rewards).

Zaron.1987:

Behellagh.1468:

Jaymee.1560:

Okay, I just noticed this last night and it threw me off.

About 95% of all items on the TP are taking hikes in price. So I asked why, and mapchat said speculation of inflation because of HoT. Okay, cool, but… T2 mats? Uhhh?

Not quite sure I understand why Charged Cores and Charged Lodes, basically anything charged is sinking in price faster than a brick.

And then one person told me they believe that Ancient wood is to be used in Guild Hall construction, hence the massive price hike on that.

Yet the price on Ecto is staying pretty much steady, as is Ori.

So my question, should I devote my time to farming Ancient wood for whatever my purposes for it may be?

I use to have a famous intuition for the game market but anet effectively killed that with the dawn of Ascended weapons. Only to get worse with Ascended armor…

We have 9 days and in 9 day, I want to do something… I want to gather. But I am not sure what I should gather… Just once I would like to use what time I have to my advantage and gather items that will be valuable with the dawn on this expansion.

Help?

Well they announced that there will be changes in drop rates to make really cheap mats have value and lower the price of more expensive mats by providing more reliable and player directed methods of attaining them. That’s causing some players to go into hoarding mode. So players are shotgunning the market. Buying a bit of everything.

That ship sailed a long time ago.

All that now buying out the tp have my empathy cause they hopped too late on the train

Was explaining why, not suggesting a course of action.

wolfpaq.7354:

Agemnon.4608:

Eddie Mo.7169:

What exactly are flippers

Instead of buying something for honest purposes they buy stuff with the purpose of reselling it later.

There is absolutely nothing dishonest about selling something that you bought.

It is outrageous that you would suggest that there is.

It’s a very old philosophical idea, merchants have the lowest “moral purity” because they create wealth while not creating anything for society.

http://asianhistory.about.com/od/japan/p/ShogJapanClass.htm

Jaymee.1560:

Okay, I just noticed this last night and it threw me off.

About 95% of all items on the TP are taking hikes in price. So I asked why, and mapchat said speculation of inflation because of HoT. Okay, cool, but… T2 mats? Uhhh?

Not quite sure I understand why Charged Cores and Charged Lodes, basically anything charged is sinking in price faster than a brick.

And then one person told me they believe that Ancient wood is to be used in Guild Hall construction, hence the massive price hike on that.

Yet the price on Ecto is staying pretty much steady, as is Ori.

So my question, should I devote my time to farming Ancient wood for whatever my purposes for it may be?

I use to have a famous intuition for the game market but anet effectively killed that with the dawn of Ascended weapons. Only to get worse with Ascended armor…

We have 9 days and in 9 day, I want to do something… I want to gather. But I am not sure what I should gather… Just once I would like to use what time I have to my advantage and gather items that will be valuable with the dawn on this expansion.

Help?

Well they announced that there will be changes in drop rates to make really cheap mats have value and lower the price of more expensive mats by providing more reliable and player directed methods of attaining them. That’s causing some players to go into hoarding mode. So players are shotgunning the market. Buying a bit of everything.

rhapsody.3615:

I think I would have felt a little better if they simply said they were lowering gold rewards from dungeons, and left out the bit about using it to herd us into the new content. Baaaaaaa.

Although I already do dungeons less lately, I am helping others get dungeon master or dungeoneer, and I’ll always be looking to help out new players with dungeons when I’m bored. Dungeons aren’t dead for me until they are removed completely!

That’s what John said.

While dungeons will remain cool experiences that’ll reward players with unique items, their liquid rewards will be reduced and other content will become more rewarding.

Reduced, not eliminated.

Also don’t forget that gold from selling gems isn’t created from nothing, it came from players buying gems with gold. So while it’s true that players can buy gold via gems, it’s not “new” gold and by selling gems for gold, it keeps the exchange rate from going into orbit.

Somebody’s grumpy.

Gold isn’t a problem. New gold, gold directly from rewards are a problem. If too much is being generated than is being removed it’s a problem for every player since it contributes to the classic definition of inflation, too much money chasing too few goods.

Activities like the silverwastes drop most of it rewards as items and materials that can be sold on the TP for gold. Gold earned this way is not new gold, it’s gold from another player and part of that is destroyed by the TP in fees and taxes.

Basically anything that’s a mini in game could be a collectible figure. Especially the notable characters in game.

Zach.2618:

But the most gold generated is from silverwaste so why isn’t it getting needed?:/ just because dungeons generate more gold than fractals doesn’t mean it generates a lot of gold, 30 gold for playing 5-6 hours only once a day is hardly any gold I would nerf over.

You don’t get a lot of direct gold from the silverwastes, you get items to sell or salvage and then sell on the TP. TP doesn’t add gold to the game, just move it around between players. Dungeons add new gold to the game.

Except I thought that one of the changes that is coming out with HoT is the ability to pick the one you want to run.

Skyline Crash.6254:

IRL Miniatures. I think that would be a hit, people could collect their favorite in game miniatures in real life.

A realistically scaled and looking wax figure replica of Colin Johanson.

With the periodic rage that shows up on the forums, a voodoo doll version would probably sell better.

This thread is pointless because ANet all but said they are done with them. If it wasn’t a source of tokens and story lore they would take it behind the barn and put it down.

The best suggestion I’ve heard was to translate the dungeon paths into fractals and keep the story mode in PvE only.

Agemnon.4608:

Daddar.5971:

Just add an additional ( invisible?) 1% to the account MF buff for every ‘subpar’ drop, and remove the extra MF whenever an ‘over-par’ drop occurs. Basically, just fudge the MF upward until a player is compensated for getting garbage instead of goodies.

Given the nature of averages wouldn’t it simply even out naturally? If you have an unlucky streak you’re due for better luck soon since you’ll either progress or regress to the mean. I had Silverwaste runs where I’d only obtain 3 ectos for an entire run and I typically receive more in T6 mats than I spend in gold on the bags. One time I even got two powerful bloods three times in a row! They have a decent droprate from the bags and at this rate I can naturally save up materials for the Stygian blade.

No, that’s the gambler’s fallacy. While the law of large numbers will converge the results of numerous trials onto the average, a run of “bad” luck doesn’t alter the chances the next roll would be better.

Zergs.9715:

Can I return my silver fed salvage kit because I could really use those gems on something that’s not going to become worthless. Or at least reduce the price of salvaging drastically.

Thanks!

Let’s jump the gun why don’t we.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

ok first off… im sensing rehashed ideas in the “had to get creative” aspect of this legendary revamp… so far everything but the small nuances of the weapons themselves is all old content being recycled to look new… staff is 3 years old for chr ists sake, the axe is just a reskin of twilights blue reflection area and the pistol is just a rehash of bolts particles on a slightly tweaked aether pistol. nothing is from scratch… i.e whiteboard session.

secondly why does it matter whether manipulators are in game wanze? I’ll tell you why… said manipulator just gets more ability to manipulate and drive up prices… they now have more money to seize whole sections of an economy and determine prices

last… you all laughed me out of the community years ago when I speculated and showed bits and pieces of how Anet was manipulating the market to jim up or down prices….. this whole blog is proof of that focus…. And I will wager there is more manipulation by them to the market other then they have already divulged as well… I can picture a bot they use to snag up all items in a category below certain prices just to maintain what they feel is the proper “balance” to an economy….

If ANet had a bot buying up low priced items using gold from ANet’s infinite supply of gold, wouldn’t that be injecting more gold into the economy and causing inflation that way?

I see it this way…anet has a set price they would like certain rare items to be… if said item is listed below set price, an auto generated bot buys it up to maintain its current price. Sure the person gets the gold(which is what I think you are referring to as injecting gold into the economy), but the item never sees the light of day again, keeping it rare.

Since the item is rare to begin with, its not likely to have more items like it drop soon (as per RNG sucking in this game). which would allow sufficeint time for said items gold effect, to be mitigated through tp taxes etc, of that person buying other things in the economy. Im sure there are more viable ways I havent thought of yet that also can fit into this, but thats the start.

If they are going to go to all that much trouble why not tweak the drop rates to keep them rare and of a sufficient price rather than increasing the amount of gold in the economy by buying items using their limitless stock of out of game gold?

nerfed drop rates are trackable… random generated bots are not… imagine the uproar of nerfing an already kittenty rng system eh…

Have you ever heard of anyone tracking the drop rates of any items? How would they be tracked? The trading post is very granular and doesn’t show second by second activity or truly show sales to buy orders and they can quickly appear and disappear. When people were discussing the sales of Legendairies and the economist said how many sold in a 24 hour period, it was much more than what the people thought it was, and this was something that people were watching.

The only people who knows what’s being dropped at what frequency is ANet. They know what items are used on characters and what items are kept in inventory, TPed, salvaged, forged or sold to NPCs. Unless it was something that drops with such a frequency that altering suddenly drains or radically increases the supply on the TP, it’s invisible to us players.

Bomber.3872:

I’m wondering why so many veterans get angry on these changes.

We the veterans have already thousands of materials stockpiled and some thousand gold. We probably all did every dungeon for some hundred times during the last 3 years.

Dungeon nerf or every nerf focused on the current gw2 areas is totally awesome! That just means that we the veterans will stay forever richer/further than newbies or f2p. So while we can get awesome loot and new expensive stuff playing HoT, casuals and f2p’s can grind like forever for us.

That logic could have been used when they made paths pay off once a day. Or when they eliminated mat and boss farming across servers or on multiple characters. After everytime they shut down some outrageous farm or the champ trains.

The Vet slot is awarded on Fridays, the slot you get with Deluxe or Ultimate you get right away.

Ah, it mapped your skills and traits you had as best as it could and “charged” you for them even though you couldn’t have all of those with the current system.

I only played my level 80s when Traits 3.0 hit so it was just a matter of spending all the points it didn’t allocate to unlock them all. Only “newish” character was made during Traits 2.0 and didn’t have any yet.

Good it’s sorted out. Now you just have to dig yourself out of that hole.

IronPhoenix.2045:

Trinnitty.8256:

I think I kinda agree. I get tired of TP flippers buying up things just to resell them at higher prices. I’m talking the buying up large quantities of item to make them rarer and thus driving up the price by slowly releasing their stock back into the tp.

Your are talking about buying up large quantities of items but thats not Flipping. Thats market manipulation. If i got now 15 k gold and im buying for 4k all skins of a rare limited item and increasing the price by 50 % thats not flipping.

Sadly that’s what some people think flipping is about. Buying cheap and then repost not at the current instant buy price but at some point above that. Intercept the cheap sellers to force players to buy at an inflated price. That’s speculating.

They really don’t understand it’s about quick turnaround, the “flip”, of items so capital isn’t tied up for some unspecified period of time. They think flippers are “stealing” items from buyers who would use it or “conning” sellers into accepting a low ball amount. And then prey on buyers with inflated prices. You can’t change their minds. you can’t educate them.

Agemnon.4608:

Shen Slayer.3058:

While they at it…can they fix the gold to gem ratio, it seems to be rigged at the moment.

Also gems to gold. $.10 per gold doesn’t sound bad, until you realize it translates into 1,000 gold for $100. That’s a couple of good current releases with 64-bit API’s right there.

Except it was a dollar per gold back when I started in Dec 2012 so don’t know what your point is. It’s been getting cheaper to buy gold.

I know your computer wasn’t on, I didn’t ask that.

I login and post to the forum from other locations on other devices, like my tablet or when I visit my parents or friends.

If you didn’t, then yes. Someone tried to log into the game or forum with your creds and SMS stopped them. Maybe you should change your password. Assuming this is a new SMS. My phone doesn’t give me a time stamp for messages.

Then every item would need to be tagged.

Tapioca.9062:

Behellagh.1468:

“As a part of that process, we’ll shift some rewards away from dungeons and into other pieces of content. "

That doesn’t just mean moving it to fractals. As a matter of fact he goes one to describe the other pieces of content right after he said this.

“The major concern that we’re sure to face is the specific intent of dungeons as a gold-generating activity. To that effect, let’s talk about map rewards.”

Except that the map rewards portion of that article doesn’t cover the concept of increased rewards. It covers the exact opposite. It covers how the new map rewards system will devalue high priced mats and give buyers more power by allowing them to circumvent the market and sellers will have to respond accordingly. The inference here is that sellers will need to price accordingly because they will need to factor in that people can just farm for mats and that flipping, hoarding and price gouging won’t be an option due to the constant stream of new mats into the market.

Further, if you look at the line that you conveniently didn’t mention, the article states, “The shift in rewards is a direct representation of our focus on raids and fractals and our commitment to make them the best they can be.” How is the devaluation of mats via map rewards a “direct representation of our focus on raids and fractals?” Spoiler warning: It’s not.

And one reason we need gold is because some mats are so expensive, so by making them less expensive, you reduce the need for as much gold.

The shift in rewards to raids and fractals is because that is where they want to spend their development time, not trying to “fix” dungeons. So that’s why they are removing the “liquid” rewards from dungeons and providing a means to reduce the cost of high price mats. Making something cheaper that’s in high demand is the same as providing the gold you will spend on them.

Think of it this way. You want a cookie. It costs a dollar but you only have 50 cents. So giving you 50 cents gives you the same result as cutting the price of the cookie to 50 cents. So they are looking at cutting the cost of the cookie while not giving you that extra 50 cents as the results is the same, you can get the cookie.

Did you try to login to the forum from somewhere else? That would generate a challenge.

“As a part of that process, we’ll shift some rewards away from dungeons and into other pieces of content. "

That doesn’t just mean moving it to fractals. As a matter of fact he goes one to describe the other pieces of content right after he said this.

“The major concern that we’re sure to face is the specific intent of dungeons as a gold-generating activity. To that effect, let’s talk about map rewards.”

Averath.6283:

I get and fully understand that they do not want to develop dungeons anymore. That is their choice. I am disagreeing with their blanket chances that affect all the dungeons. As it is right now dungeons are not the best way to spend your time on GW2. SW is probably the best place to be. Dungeons offer you a decent reward, though this applies to a relatively small amount of paths across a fair number of dungeons. This means that a number of paths simply go ignored because they’re not economical to run.

I don’t care if they want to stop production on dungeons. I don’t care if they want to stop support for dungeons and just focus on fractals and raids. That stance, however, does not address the fundamental problem with dungeons. They’ve been ignoring the fundamental problem with dungeons for multiple years now, and this change will address none of those problems. All this change accomplishes is sweeping dungeons under the rug.

If they really wanted to change dungeons for the better, than they would treat them like a valid part of the game and make them balanced against the other parts of the game.

Dungeons are a casual 5-man experience. Fractals are a difficult 5-man experience. Raids are slated to be a very difficult 10-man experience. World event chains, such as the Silver Wastes, are a casual experience on a massive scale with a difficulty far lower than dungeons.

They should have Raids give the greatest rewards, which seems to be the intent. Fractals should give the best rewards for 5-man content. Dungeons should honestly be on-par with a casual experience, so that you can choose if you want to do 5-man content, or open world content. Right now they’re not even close, and they’re going to be kicking them down another rung with this change.

Perhaps the biggest spit in the face is that they’ve still ignored the disparity between time invested vs reward. You get a far greater reward for running shorter paths than you do running longer paths. This is the fundamental issue with dungeons that has gone ignored for years, and now they’ve pretty much announced that they don’t care at all.

Great precedent to set. A selling point of the original game was never addressed and simply abandoned. I can’t wait to see what they abandon from HoT. Will it be raids? Perhaps the “new and improved” fractals? We shall see, huh?

No, listen to what you are still saying. They aren’t interested in doing anything with dungeons anymore. Not just making new ones, they are through with them. Fixing them? Make them better? Hah. Don’t need to fix them if players are strongly discouraged from playing them.

And if they weren’t tied into the LW 1 lore they would close the doors and be done with them permanently but they can’t so all that is left is removing the motivation to play them daily, the gold reward. From now on only players who want to do story mode or run them for tokens (because they despise PvP as dungeon tokens were added to PvP for PvP players who despise PvE) for unique dungeon gear and for crafting legendary weapons.

Dungeons will become that “historic” ride at the amusement park that people go on once to say they rode it but is simply kept running to say it’s been there since it opened and was once the bee’s knees.

Sampo.9678:

Shufflepants.9785:

Am I the only one who reads these forums almost exclusively for posts written by Wanze?

It’s because of Wanze that i turned into a flipper long ago.

On-topic i am still no economic expert but from what i’ve learned in gw2 is that flippers are actually good for the ingame economy.
And i do not understand why people are so kitten about this way of moneymaking.
I don’t stand in the trading post all day long.
I do some fractals. i do some pvp and i buy and sell some items on the TP.
Just like everyone else can.

But … ah you use your brain. That’s not fair.

Tapioca.9062:

Behellagh.1468:

Didn’t say they were adding gold to fractal rewards.

Well, dungeons give you gold and tokens. And I don’t see them adding dungeon specific tokens to fractals or raids. So what reward is left to move over to raids and fractals?

Why do they have to move any reward over to them. They could have their own unique rewards.

Daralii.8940:

Behellagh.1468:

phys.7689:

Simplicity.7208:

I’m amazed at the number of people who just don’t understand economics. Let me see if I can explain it. Dungeons are a gold faucet. They are the single largest gold faucet in the game. By running one AC path 1, you generate not just 1.86g for yourself, but for all your party members as well. That simple 10 minute run just generated 9.3g and put it into the economy.

On the opposite side of the scale, you have things like the silverwastes chest farm which does not generate gold, it simply generates items which have their value taken from current market value. Selling or salvaging items acquired through this farm removes gold from the economy through TP fees and salvage fees. Furthermore, when gold is easier to get, the silverwastes chest farm items are worth more gold and when gold is more difficult to get, the silverwastes farm items are worth less gold. Their value does not change, only the gold it takes to acquire them.

By reducing the available gold faucets, ANet hopes to increase the value of gold and curb inflation. You may not appreciate it, but dungeons are a giant contributor to why things are so expensive gold wise. The dungeon runners are putting much more gold into the system than sinks are able to remove.

sorry man, i asked that question, the main purpose of the nerf is not to reduce gold faucets, but primarily to disincentivize dungeons. They dont want dungeons to be competing with other content, and they dont want to encourage people to do them daily.

They plan to move liquid gains to other things, but you wouldnt have to actually remove dungeons if that was your goal. You see, if 3 things reward similar gold, for the same time requirement, people will do whichever thing they prefer. They also could have given dungeons non liquid rewards and focused on mats, or other things that sell well on the TP.

but that would defeat the purpose, the purpose of taking away the gold was to make doing dungeons not be the thing those type of players do.

True, they decided well before the expansion announcement that fractals was the way for challenging group content that is below Raids. That all future development will be done as a mix of fractals, raids and living world. Two of those three will require HoT and the remaining one, fractals, will require HoT for the later fractals that will likely use mechanics from HoT like gliding and shroom bouncing.

So they want players to pay more attention to fractals and less for dungeons and the one sure way to dissuade doing dungeons ad nauseam is to remove the majority of the gold being dropped. This makes dungeons only purpose is to get specific dungeon rewards and tokens for legendary weapons.

Not even needed for that. The associated PvP tract already gives more tokens(and armor/weapon boxes for the collection), and Smith stated they’re not buffing token rewards from dungeons. They are, for all intents and purposes, obsolete.

Unless you hate PvP.

Didn’t say they were adding gold to fractal rewards.

It’s only profitable because so many players are willing to give player traders their money by not trying to get a better deal selling and buying. They are willing to trade money to players like Wanze so they get their coin and items immediately rather than waiting a day or less.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Coulter.2315:

Guys they have lots of data and been running models and are likely to have economics and maths degrees or doctorates. Its crazy to shoot them down when you really don’t have access to the information, knowledge and expertise they do.

Wait and see.

An economist has training on economy. That doesn’t mean he knows didly squat about fun in an mmorpg. Running models with lots of data won’t tell them didly about fun either, no matter how many math degrees or doctorates they have. It’s not always the best option to base your game around the economy and not about people having fun.

It wouldn’t be fun if the economy goes into hyper inflation or it becomes trivial to get everything easily either. It’s his job to not let the economy collapse.

phys.7689:

Simplicity.7208:

I’m amazed at the number of people who just don’t understand economics. Let me see if I can explain it. Dungeons are a gold faucet. They are the single largest gold faucet in the game. By running one AC path 1, you generate not just 1.86g for yourself, but for all your party members as well. That simple 10 minute run just generated 9.3g and put it into the economy.

On the opposite side of the scale, you have things like the silverwastes chest farm which does not generate gold, it simply generates items which have their value taken from current market value. Selling or salvaging items acquired through this farm removes gold from the economy through TP fees and salvage fees. Furthermore, when gold is easier to get, the silverwastes chest farm items are worth more gold and when gold is more difficult to get, the silverwastes farm items are worth less gold. Their value does not change, only the gold it takes to acquire them.

By reducing the available gold faucets, ANet hopes to increase the value of gold and curb inflation. You may not appreciate it, but dungeons are a giant contributor to why things are so expensive gold wise. The dungeon runners are putting much more gold into the system than sinks are able to remove.

sorry man, i asked that question, the main purpose of the nerf is not to reduce gold faucets, but primarily to disincentivize dungeons. They dont want dungeons to be competing with other content, and they dont want to encourage people to do them daily.

They plan to move liquid gains to other things, but you wouldnt have to actually remove dungeons if that was your goal. You see, if 3 things reward similar gold, for the same time requirement, people will do whichever thing they prefer. They also could have given dungeons non liquid rewards and focused on mats, or other things that sell well on the TP.

but that would defeat the purpose, the purpose of taking away the gold was to make doing dungeons not be the thing those type of players do.

True, they decided well before the expansion announcement that fractals was the way for challenging group content that is below Raids. That all future development will be done as a mix of fractals, raids and living world. Two of those three will require HoT and the remaining one, fractals, will require HoT for the later fractals that will likely use mechanics from HoT like gliding and shroom bouncing.

So they want players to pay more attention to fractals and less for dungeons and the one sure way to dissuade doing dungeons ad nauseam is to remove the majority of the gold being dropped. This makes dungeons only purpose is to get specific dungeon rewards and tokens for legendary weapons.

Ameepa.6793:

“Swimming swimming swimming, all summer long.
Swimming swimming swimming, it makes your flippers strong.”

I think the API needs Quaggan Deep Thoughts.

Averath.6283:

Frank.7452:

I’m a little disturbed by the level of antagonism here over the gold reward going down for dungeons. I think the concern is less over the content changes, and more over your 40g a day cash flow.

Running a series of the easiest and fastest dungeon paths, skipping as much content as possible, is generally not done to be ‘fun’. It is done strictly for gold, and it’s easy money.

The gold rewards are going down to disincentivize running easy paths for gold. People will continue to play dungeons for tokens, and if the drops are improved – people might even kill things in dungeons instead of skipping to the boss.

You’re forgetting one major aspect of GW2. You only participate in content because it gets you closer to your goal. Right now gold is the end-all-beat-all. Gold is what drives the game, and if you cannot get a reasonable amount of gold from a dungeon run, then there is no reason to run a dungeon. Simply nerfing dungeons across the board doesn’t really do much to rectify this massive problem, it just removes dungeons from the equation entirely.

What they should have done is have each dungeon give you a moderate reward based upon the time investment. Figure out an average “gold per hour” for each dungeon and push for that. Have them be lower than something like the Silver Wastes, but not so low that you should simply run the Silver Wastes instead.

This isn’t addressing the core problem with dungeon speed running. It’s ignoring it entirely, and just slapping all dungeons at the same time for the hell of it, while claiming that it’s going to address the problem.

You don’t get it. The devs don’t want to develop dungeons any more. They decided that fractals give them a greater opportunity to innovate, try out new mechanics and not be tied into the PvE maps.

Because that’s where the devs are investing development time, it would be counter productive if players don’t play them so they are discouraging the existing PvE instance content by limiting the gold rewarded, yet again.

You want rewards, don’t do dungeons, do fractals. If they lose players who are doing dungeons solely for gold, oh well but they hope you will try the new fractals that is coming with HoT, you may like it. But since existing legendary weapons still require dungeon tokens, they will still be needed, but needed for dungeon specific rewards and not as a gold faucet.

Nothing said here, suggesting alternatives or warning how this is a bad decision isn’t going to change anything. The word came down a long time ago that all future instance party content will be fractals and raids and that’s it (besides future living world seasons). It was on the HoT site the day they announced the expansion.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if some of this is also part of the “let’s kill the Zerk meta”.

ZanchinFissure.7981:

Behellagh.1468:

Substance E.4852:

ZanchinFissure.7981:

Dungeons are pretty much dead from what I see. There are more people in silverwaste maps there are people in dungeon maps combined. Don’t believe me? Go look. Seriously, check it out. They’re almost dead. I would say they’re kicking a dead horse, but that would imply they’re trying to get something out of it.

At least they’re being honest in a way. Let dungeons fade away; they’re already burnt out.

In exchange for what exactly? Mini dungeons that are even less popular and just as abandoned content-wise?

Dungeons died because Anet didn’t want to put in the work to add on to them and keep them relevant. Not because of some inherent design flaw.

I never said they were exchanging anything for them. You said that. I also never said they were a flawed design, you brought that up. Thanks for arguing with me, or yourself whatever.

They decided that fractals gave them more design options by not having them integrated into the world.

I agree. It’s alot easier to deal with since they don’t need to make sure they’re keeping up with the lore. People just speculate what most fractals are so it doesn’t need to tie into anything really.

I don’t appreciate you making it look like I said something that I didn’t (the part you bolded).

No, I think he’s talking about adding new sources and uses for existing mats which shook up the markets. Things like salvaging ectos and changes in drop rates. The massive source of snowflakes.

The Zephyr Sanctum exchange was more of a temporary sink to drain off the excess.

I use to do dailies simply for the laurels. Now I don’t need to. The 10 AP from dailies are more than I got before and dailies are simply suggested play with a little carrot on a stick.

The AP reward is there to push players along the AP reward track, which didn’t exist at launch. I don’t even know what AP was good for back then. Bragging rights?

Blaine Tog.8304:

Makai.3429:

Wonder how many preorders they would’ve had if they had announced this change before the beta weekends…

At least one fewer. I dislike the idea of phasing out dungeons far more than I like the idea of raids. Far, far more.

You had to have your head in the sand to not know this was coming. But nobody was willing to take the repeated hints to go do something else. Repeated nerfs since the game launch, the news that the dungeon team was dissolved, the interviews that said that fractals are the new dungeons which was before it went on sale. You all had plenty of time to make peace with this.

The news that they are turning the gold spigot from dungeons to a trickle should not have surprised anyone.

What? You think everyone runs dungeons? If you just ran dungeons why would you buy the expansion?

Substance E.4852:

ZanchinFissure.7981:

Dungeons are pretty much dead from what I see. There are more people in silverwaste maps there are people in dungeon maps combined. Don’t believe me? Go look. Seriously, check it out. They’re almost dead. I would say they’re kicking a dead horse, but that would imply they’re trying to get something out of it.

At least they’re being honest in a way. Let dungeons fade away; they’re already burnt out.

In exchange for what exactly? Mini dungeons that are even less popular and just as abandoned content-wise?

Dungeons died because Anet didn’t want to put in the work to add on to them and keep them relevant. Not because of some inherent design flaw.

They decided that fractals gave them more design options by not having them integrated into the world.