Guild Wars 2

Fay.2357:

Benjamin.8237:

The sword 3 skill works 100% of the time if you are above them on a hill.

This isn’t true. Any sort of slope can and will make the leap fail spectacularly.

Are you sure? I’ve been led to believe when I am higher on a slope than my opponent that it connects, such as in the borderlands areas where the non home teams spawn.

S/D thieves 500% counter mesmers at the moment. You can beat one! but if you beat an S/D thief then he should uninstall. The build allows them to constantly gap close on us, which is one of our main forms of defence, and in their opening sequence they can drop us to 50% and poison us. That is why it’s hard to fight them, because you cannot predict instant teleports, so you have to engage them first…which is a stupid idea, or predict how they will react.

I have now started raking mirror images just so I can wreck thieves who teleport away with a blink shatter combo, it is my main goal to beat them whenever at the moment. Also just duel top S/D thieves in the duelling servers, because despite what the “pros” tell you on here about which builds counter them! good S/D thieves wont lose to any Mesmer build,

Since this forum is normally full of QQ and nothing productive, I’d thought I’d try and start a discussion about the consistency of you guys. For example when I’m awake early in the mornings I play amazingly well, but when I’m tired I play worse than a drunk norn (that’s bad). So I thought, how do you guys feel you play?

Are you always amazing or do you always suck?
Do you have days where you feel incredibly unlucky, or are you really just playing worse that day?

Just phase retreat up there, smaller cooldown and I have never received a terrain error using it.

vincecontix.1264:

In a 1v1 between the two set dp easy. Dp set beats all other thief sets.

I haven’t seen this yet. It might seem it in paper but all the thief v thief fights the S/D player has come on top, and this is from all top thieves.

I was dueling Atrastea earlier with generosity and for about 9 seconds of critting him with the sigil, not once did it remove poison. I wouldn’t trust it, just try and not get hit by the condies I guess haha.

It appears you are suffering the rubberband effect which affects leaps and blinks. The sword 3 skill works 100% of the time if you are close to your opponent or on flat ground or above them on a hill. Guardian should be easy to beat also. How many patches ago by the way? Most people in high pvp know how to fight and counter Mesmer and you have to mechanically play to a high degree often to beat them. Just get your binds right, you need to be able to 180-phaseretreat-180 with a staff in 1/2 second

The technology already exists with the Engineer Flamethrower toolbelt skill, when it’s activated it gives you a buff that applies the burn. I can’t see why this wouldn’t work here. Although I wouldn’t like it if it got blinded/blocked/evaded. It’d have to be an unblock able on hit effect. The only negative I can think of would be the fact that because of your teammates actions, you could randomly receive 5 torment which would guarantee to kitten me off in a match.

To be fair I don’t want our class dumbed down any more thanks. Nice idea, borderline OP and takes away some of the little skill required for grenades. Engineer keeps getting a bad name for itself, we used to be a skilled 3 kit class…then we were perplexity spam, decap noob, turret scrub.

Celestial Engineer works well due to the variety of the kits. It’s good to roam or 1v1. Not so much in tournament unless they are good at stacking might.

Dodge. Distortion. Diversion. Blink. Phase Retreat. Signet of Midnight.

Eviscerate is the easiest skill to stop as it has such an obvious wind up, I rarely get hit by it and when I do…I lose the fight. Just gotta move on and learn.

I’ve stopped taking condi cleanse on my Mesmer because the only engineers I see now use turrets, necros are really rare at the moment and the few I meet do use power builds.

I have noticed a lot of other Rangers recently also, and none of them play the GS/LB build that well either. Then there is that guy who plays zerk LB/SB…gotta love him.

Jurica.1742:

Nice video and mesmer. Would you mind posting a screenshot of the front of your asura?
I’m working on Vision of the Mists and Strength runes, but I’ve been thinking about getting T3 armor(just need the legs) and using it on mine..
Have a wonderful rest of the day mate!

~Monns

Sure thing: http://imgur.com/kZpSWnv,r6zUHwQ#0

As far as I can see the original poster doesn’t wish to play anything but a shatter build or an interrupt build. The latter is very good at countering Thieves in a fair 1v1, but falls short a bit in team fights where you would be better of ripping boons and applying spike pressure to a target. This also really depends on the build the thief is using, and I mean really. D/D and S/P are free kills if I catch them. D/P is also easily countered as they either sit in stealth or try and heartseeker you.

At the moment, in this current meta…it is not the thief class but about the build. S/D is that build. Frankly if I can see that they suck I will go for them, but if they are equally skilled or better then it’s a waste of my and my teams time fighting them, and if I try to kill them then as Fay said they succeed. Of course I can just run away to where I’m needed, as S/D isn’t that mobile without wasting several skills and if they chase me they are not doing their job either.

Fay.2357:

Benjamin.8237:

Oh my god all the people saying PU is viable, Condi mes is viable, Phantasm Mes is viable…

None of these builds are viable in a tournament, it’s play a shatter as good as you can or don’t bring a Mesmer at the moment, which is unfortunate but true, these builds don’t bring enough to the table and get countered easily.

And by ‘in a tournament’ you mean a real tournament, one that includes the top 5 teams we’ve been mentioning, or just normal team queue?

If just normal team queue, then again you’re wrong. PU condie works just fine, and phantasm builds work just fine on khylo as the trebber. When I bother doing tPvP anymore, I use them and I win.

Are PU condie builds or phantasm builds viable in tournaments against the only 5 organized teams in this game? No. Is mesmer viable in tournaments with those teams? No. This whole argument about what is viable becomes completely irrelevant when you begin discussing tournament play at that top-most level, because mesmers aren’t viable at that level.

What I play and what I advise others to play works in all situations other than that. It simply works the best if you know how to do it. It counters thieves, it counters hambow, it counters condie spam, it counters whatever you want to throw at it. I play to win, I don’t play to theoretically win if I have a team coordinating and peeling thieves so I can get shatter bursts off.

I equally disagree, even in normal tournaments those builds aren’t viable. The builds don’t suck, and I don’t care if people think they are cheese or not, but they still wont perform as well as a Shatter Mesmer. That fact cannot be denied, they don’t bring anything to the table. Of course you can play one of those builds and do well if you are a good Mesmer, but other classes can provide the same thing, leaving us with Phantasm and Shatter. In this situation Shatter helps the team more.

Second of all, 55Hp Monks have Misha…a top team Mesmer. TCG have Helseth…a top team Mesmer. BOON have Sensotix…(he still plays his Mesmer). Mesmer is completely viable at top level, if you know how to play effectively…yeah skill matters more for the Mesmer compared to a Warrior.

It is laughable that you say that the “only” 5 teams don’t use Mesmer…unless of course you are referring to NA where no team lasts a month together and you can advance up the leader boards with one win. Also they have run double warrior specs…

You don’t need a team to peel for a thief if you are capable of handling them kittenter yourself either.

I just don’t like people recommending these builds for people to play in a tournament, I wreck over them and more importantly most of the people I have met, in guild, or in the dueling servers…wreck over them. Not a boast but a fact.

Also you cannot bring the leader boards into an argument (as you did above) when they count for nothing and are purely luck based. Also I cannot find that you have been in the top 200 as you claimed, and according to the leader boards you’ve never been in the top 1000.

I don’t want to turn this into a personal rant though as I know you, like myself, have played Mesmer for a long time going back to the betas, and I appreciate everyone’s opinions on the matter.

TL;DR

Play what you want, but don’t expect a Non Shatter build to be “viable”. It might seem to work for you, but it wont vs skilled opponents.

Oh my god all the people saying PU is viable, Condi mes is viable, Phantasm Mes is viable…

None of these builds are viable in a tournament, it’s play a shatter as good as you can or don’t bring a Mesmer at the moment, which is unfortunate but true, these builds don’t bring enough to the table and get countered easily.

In hotjoin, play what you want. In soloq you could possibly get away with a phantasm build, but you wont have a strong burst and probably not as high mobility…but it could work. Teamq don’t bother until you are good with the class and the build. Stealth inherently counters the point capture game mode, and when a Mesmer has to bring Portal and Nullfield there isn’t much room for it where a blink would be better suited.

You have to outplay them, I beat some thieves all the time. If they suck, easy kill. If they’re good…I can pull a win out the bag. If they’re equally skilled and playing S/D…I just let my team handle them.

Firstly I’m not sure what you’re complaining about as I have seen you beat thieves quite often in the dueling servers

By the looks of it in the first picture you were low on health, and got an unlucky rng air and fire.

I think the thing is, in tournaments you can’t take Mantra of Distraction to interrupt them.

The normal PvP community inside guilds and team and solo queue is very nice I find. I have been blocked by a select few, but that’s up to them. I never block unless gold seller and I have had some of the best fun in this game in custom arenas with guild playing mini games like catch the thief/mesmer.

Staff Ele with clerics can provide amazing team support, Beserker staff ele can provide great on point dps with fire but its more or less a one trick pony. D/D celestial is very flavour of the month at the moment and has great survivability, and with might stacking good damage too!

Hello!

This is a very quick video covering all of the kiting locations that I know still work in the core PvP maps. Some of these have been covered before, in older videos…however I still find that many Mesmers do not know of these locations. The ability to phase retreat onto a safe platform is crucial in our survivability, and helps us escape very easily.

I also follow the strong philosophy that stealth can always be better replaced by utilities and that you should never waste a blink, especially when an 8 second phase retreat often does the same job.

Anyhow, here is a video that very quickly covers all of the locations that currently still work (how I miss the old khylo clocktower phase retreat) and I wish to see more Mesmers using this to their advantage. Watch it in 720p to avoid blurring and ofcourse, please tell me below if you know of any other locations to phase retreat.

Disclaimer the video quality may suck and there are other videos that show a similar thing.

If it helps also I am currently editing a fast paced video of every blink and phase retreat location that currently works now as apposed to what used to work. Also some other videos don’t show all of the kiting spots and are lost in the depths of YouTube…:(

Staff + Greatsword. People are always surprised at the locations I can phase retreat to on different maps, especially foefire.

Mostly used in PvE? Go full zerk and get better, why pick alternatives. I still use full zerk in PvP…you just gotta learn how it works and rely on your team mates.

I think the ranger class requires skill on the behalf of the player in this current meta, disregarding shout builds. This statement is actually far off, as ranger isn’t a hard class to play, but your effectiveness with it can depend on that. For example I play a Longbow and Sword/Warhorn berserker build which I am having a lot of success with, but it has no get out of jail free cards. No protect me, no signet of stone etc…I need to work with the team to do well, and most rangers don’t do that, they just sit at home using 1.

Right, let me get this straight. It fires a bolt at your target only if the toolbelt skill you used targets them. Throw wrench is aimed at a target, so the bolt will go for them. Non targeted skills the bolt will fly directly into the centre of the screen.

Once you work out where it is, it should still hit. For example I always drop my rifle turret before battle, I immobilize them with rifle 2 and then destroy the turret, no matter where it is a bolt will fire into them, I can then instant cast the hidden bullet to get double SD damage. It just takes getting used to, and as far as I’m aware working as intended.

Phantasm Mesmer you should never really lose to a thief. Shatter Mesmer it is a whole other story where you need to outplay them, look at one of the other qq mesmer thief threads for ideas there.

Nice gameplay, the players you fought weren’t the best but you took on multiples quite nicely. Although I still don’t think you have enough condition cleanse.

Are you new to the mesmer class or just learning it? If so take Staff and Sword/x as that is quite an easy set to get to grips with and is still very viable. As you gain experience you can pick more offensive set-ups like Greatsword and Sword/Pistol. I myself use Greatsword and Staff as the latter offers so much mobility it’s hard to drop.

Wyrden.4713:

Benjamin.8237:

When they stealth run out of their range and normally they will just sort of appear with not much to do. Generally if a Shatter mesmer is taking stealth then they are new, as in teams stealth just takes away better utilities. Once they learn how to kite stealth isn’t needed that much tbh

not sure but i think u dindt play mesmer long enuf?

as gs / sword , torch user

i always unload my burst, decoy after for some distance / or after i killed someone and there r other ppl, stealth, kite away till recharged

or u stealth and suddenly shatter them to death 1 sec after u appear of stealth, pretty much thieflike, just more effects

Well actually I am very experienced with the Mesmer class having played it since launch and equally experienced with it in pvp. If I take a stealth I can’t contest points firstly, and it means I cannot take better utilities such as null field and portal (time warp) for my team. Blink for me is a must, therefore I don’t have room for something that gives me a tiny bit more survivability, when in all fairness I shouldn’t be getting stunned as with Staff Greatsword I can kite opponents away.

When your new, sure stealth is great, but in PvP try not to take it…look at meta thief builds…even they don’t utilize stealth much.

Absent Minded.5821:

Please, for the love of all that is good in this world, stahp running glass cannon ranger. I promise switching to a decent build (Trap, Regen, BM, Spirits) will make a world of difference.

LB/GS rangers have mediocre damage with no defense or mobility. You’re literally only left alive until someone gets tired of getting hit by 2k crits every few seconds and kills you. There is no in between. There is no chasing you, there is no fight, there is just them noticing the LB ranger and then the LB ranger dying.

I play a glass survival Longbow Sword/Warhorn ranger and without protect me and signets I find while I may be glassy, I kill people far quicker and with correct dodging and kiting I don’t find it a problem at all.

I tried a turret Engineer to see how OP they were. One Mace/Shield Greatsword warrior waltzed in, took them all out in stability then stunlocked me into a 100b. I don’t think it’s OP whatsoever tbh.

When they stealth run out of their range and normally they will just sort of appear with not much to do. Generally if a Shatter mesmer is taking stealth then they are new, as in teams stealth just takes away better utilities. Once they learn how to kite stealth isn’t needed that much tbh

It’d be really simple to make it work the same as Thief Sword 2. First press summon a clone at your target that immobilizes them, second press you leap to the target striking them and applying vulnerability.

With this you would miss out on the 2 leap finishers and the conditions have been swapped, but this would make it far more reliable to use.

Xavi.6591:

I like 4/4/0/0/6 Shatter for Boon removal in Tpvp but I’m not sure how feasible it would be in WvW.

I use it full zerk and I only had trouble with one off-guard but he did have Guard stacks giving him 2500 hp and 100 power or whatever and food whereas I don’t have any of that.

3. Portal. This allows me to save my kitten so often and allows me to carry games by portaling my teammates across the map.

2. Blink. This lets me teleport around the place and lets me control the fight, I can also blink onto roofs and through walls in certain scenarios.

1. Null Field. This is one of the best abilities we have, allowing me to cleanse conditions aoe and remove boons which makes killing Warriors and Guards (Eles) ridiculously easy.

Coincidently the three skills I always use.

Working as Intended. Shall we also complain about Warriors using both stances to stomp, Mesmers using Distortion, Guardians using shields…

The Asura will eventually take over Tyria anyway.

Jurica.1742:

Is that a character or does he usually think so highly of himself? Some good points and nice apartment, though a minus for the character..

He kinda puts it on as he is a very nice guy irl as he puts it, so he likes to have fun in the game.

Volrath.1473:

MM system need alot of improvement…
i.e. the last 4 days I did over 20 soloq and won 4, I was rated 522 and now I’m at 94% due to constantly being put in teams with low rated players vs teams were every one stomps with dragon finishers. the system should split the players evenly, high and low ranked players in both teams not ALL the high ranked in one team and the cannon fodder in the other…

I’m afraid that is how this game works. On Friday I had a 14 game winning streak, today I’ve had a 7 game losing streak.

Please carry on learning shatter, it will teach you how to play the class in the best possible way and supports your team more than any other build, oh and it promotes skill rather than sitting in stealth at max range while your phantasms do their work.

I’d like to ask you, what does this build achieve over any other build that would benefit us in PvP? The majority of the fights were under 1vs1 circumstances in which a standard shatter build would help you kill them far quicker. You died in the 1vs2 and rallied due to a team-mate helping you, and while I understand this is a team game, you didn’t hold the point.

I also feel it lacks the same support that a shatter build would provide. Not saying it’s a bad build but it relies on having phantasms kill your opponent while you block, which for new Mesmers isn’t necessarily a good thing to pick up on.

Cheers for making a video though, always enjoy seeing them.

Carpboy.7145:

What does this setup have over a Sw+GS or sw+staff setup? Whats the advantage in using this over one of those?

Quite Simply, you have greater mobility and control of a fight. While you can argue that sw/p gives you the access to immobilize and a stun it still doesn’t excel at kiting. When I play GS + Staff I will never lose to another Mesmer using sword in a shatter vs shatter fight, because they can’t reach me with it.

You took the cheesiest and most boring build from the game, and made it less cheesy and slightly less boring. So I guess that’s kinda a +1. I mean it looks harder to play than turrets.

D/D Ele with celestial is the easiest to play out of the three, and it can deal good damage and off tank. Thief and Mesmers both have to roam and support the team with far caps and quick kills, mainly by being bursty. Both of them are harder to play and if you are bad to average with either you will be a liability. Thief is slightly easier to play than Mesmer in an S/D set-up. With both classes never build for stealth in PvP.

It appears I have come across incorrectly, as what Ninja has said very well applies in WvW and hotjoins and maybe even duels. Maybe this is where I’m wrong because I’m talking about the one viable tournament build, which I don’t change to duel as I feel I should only practice in the build I always use. In this case I am talking about a Staff and Greatsword shatter build with no stealth. Thief does seem to counter this well as I have no way of locking them down, and I usually credit myself of playing very well when I beat them in this set-up. It might be that I am being too specific when comparing an entire class to one build, but as far as tournaments go for supporting my team and playing my role, phantasm won’t work, PU won’t work, Condition won’t work.

But I also only Play tpvp where normally the thieves I meet are of a much higher skill level to the rest of the game.

PU mesmer will beat thieves, but the build is out of the question for team pvp, not enough boon strip, not enough interupts and harder to cap points on.

skcamow.3527:

chazawits.5071:

More this, no nonsense type stuff from a nonsense type guy.

Wondering if anet has any idea how much respect they loose by banning some one so involved and helpful to the community? This Pyroatheist ban is permanently implemented?

It is, but he’ll be back in one form or another soon enough

I for one think it’s disgusting that someone who has stood by a class since the beta was banned. This is a reoccurring thing with arena net however, I remember Helseth was banned from pax for criticising the state of the game (albeit with a gun joke).

vincecontix.1264:

Looks like lots of mesmers need practice mes> thief.

I like discussion, so please explain how? From my personal experience in a fight between the two (excluding what else they bring to the table) thief should come on top. And a lot of thieves including TCG’s sizer have stated that alone thief poops on Mesmer. I don’t believe they “poop” over mesmer, but I do believe they should win. So tell me what kills you as a thief?

EDIT: Looking at my posts it appears as if I come across as a whiner and someone who loses to every thief I fight, this is not true. But In a 1v1 arena I struggle vs competent thieves more than any other class, so of course i’d like to learn what they dislike about me.

vincecontix.1264:

You dont have to be top mesmer built to duel destroy thief.

Oh I completely agree, you can beat a thief with a PU build or a phantasm condition build etc. What I was trying to get across was two equal skilled players, a thief vs mesmer both in meta builds…a thief should probably come out on top. In a tournament setting a mesmer using PU or a condition build would be a liability, therefore thief would come on top. In a 1v1 setting mesmer has a higher chance due to build variety there, and obviously a crap thief is almost free food to most classes.