Guild Wars 2

Lynnie.7213:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

How do you think a shout/survival hybrid would fare (dual ranged options)

I understand that the boons are better on the wh and there is 2 forms of stealth with sword/wh vs. LB only having one. Still good condi cleanse and despite the vine surge removing immob, its the hard CC’s I come across a lot so I replaced Guard with Lightning Reflexes. If CA coodlown wasn’t touched I wouldn’t care so much.

Please let me know what you think? (I swap between Entangle and SotP pending on what I go up against)

I also realize that the stealth from LB isn’t as realiable, however 1500 range is too much to ignore and where I can get a good 10k+ rapid fire burst, I can’t swap.

Although the defensive part of Wilderness survival is def welcoming to Druid right now.

Please look/help my build senpai

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATWnUqA1CilsAusActglMB7pGkqmYwz0c6QtJZFAOAl8s0A-T1xIQB7T5HAuCA2Y/Bn9IAWn6PbTXACVCSKAMXGB-w

You have a pretty solid build there, man. Living the life on zerkstyle!
You have more condition cleanse than my build due to Wilderness Knowledge, pretty solid.
The only change i’d make there is the sigil of incapacitation. I really don’t see a reason to have those since you are running both ranged weapons, so you won’t have any issue hitting your targets and is not like they can runaway from you on longbow since you can trigger ancient seeds anytime you want once they are on the run. I’d swap those sigil for air or blood, tbh.

Longbow is a great weapon, i use it sometimes also. My only beef with it is that its a projectile weapon and everyone run reflects in WvW and i don’t know why.

Keep up the good roaming, man.

Heya and thanks for taking a look at it (im the dude who commented on your YT vid about going staff/lb and asked for your opinion there but ist easier for me to ask here, lol).

I chose that sigil do to other druids/zerkers and anything that stealth that have more mobility than I to help keep their speed down so I can stay ranged as much as possible as I do best at range. I was thinking endurance instead for the protection on dodge, however if someone does run (as lots of people do, especially those durned teefs, I want to be able to slow them down so I can catch up and kill em (where I don’t have sword to go ballerina to catch up).

I personally hate dueling druids (prior to this build) as it always ended up in a stale mate and I wanted to be able to 1 up them. I don’t know many good druids to spar against tho so I don’t have much practice. I see other classes more in WvW.

Aaarg. I hate when CA pops without me activating it (only seems to happen in WvW).

Anyone else reporting this (Have videos showing it happening)?

How do you think a shout/survival hybrid would fare (dual ranged options)

I understand that the boons are better on the wh and there is 2 forms of stealth with sword/wh vs. LB only having one. Still good condi cleanse and despite the vine surge removing immob, its the hard CC’s I come across a lot so I replaced Guard with Lightning Reflexes. If CA coodlown wasn’t touched I wouldn’t care so much.

Please let me know what you think? (I swap between Entangle and SotP pending on what I go up against)

I also realize that the stealth from LB isn’t as realiable, however 1500 range is too much to ignore and where I can get a good 10k+ rapid fire burst, I can’t swap.

Although the defensive part of Wilderness survival is def welcoming to Druid right now.

Please look/help my build senpai

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATWnUqA1CilsAusActglMB7pGkqmYwz0c6QtJZFAOAl8s0A-T1xIQB7T5HAuCA2Y/Bn9IAWn6PbTXACVCSKAMXGB-w

Crinn.7864:

Don’t like the change. It doesn’t fix scrapper and ranger power rezzing, rather it makes it so that scrapper and rangers are the only classes that can get rezzes off now.

And thieves that spec in SA…stealth res

Chungo.3169:

He is wrong but much, I do not use retribution, and I have no problems abate or warriors or guardians, I’ve been playing with rev 3000h, and you come to teach me to play rev? You better go to pvp using rev and sure to come with a different story in the pvp forum. (Aplauso)

I don’t play rev that often, however 3000 hours doesn’t mean you are #1 ranked, therefore there’s always room to improve. Couldn’t tell ya how many scrappers said the same thing and I still beat them and willingly taught them a few things. 3000 hours just means you know a few things.

Anywho, happy gaming and wanted to point that out

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

I don’t see it, what is so ‘Lololol’?

It is a blowout winning streak in Unranked with ranger. Good for you. Gratz!

But I do not get the lols…

Its ok, no one does.

So…this update nerfed my Bunker Busting build I created during the PvP season of bunker builds. I still have never seen any builds that came close to mine (I love non meta and original). The amount of CC’s made my build a counter to bunkers. When they nerfed bunker builds and DPS came back, I fared well vs those as well. Then came the changes to Sneak Gyro and gyros now had a cast time. I went with it as the build was still feasible vs bunker and vs dps (crap vs condis tho, but thanks to the stun on blowing up gyros, I could usually cc them down long enough without getting condi bombed) Then a change lightning clap and the #2. Less CC but still barely managed vs condi classes. Now there is no stun on the gyros, my survivability on a build I have created is nerfed hard. Its no secret that condis are 80%+ of engi’s weakness (ive also played condi builds so I know this from years of experience). I understand that now my build (and those that utilized the stuns on gyros) that relied on skill to avoid condi bombs, now are weaker to it.

I don’t usually rant, but this one hit me really hard (4 gyros and an elixir) as I PvP with this.

Time to go back to the thoerycrafting board and make another nerfable build.

*I also copied/pasted this from another thread

/endrant

So…this update nerfed my Bunker Busting build I created during the PvP season of bunker builds. I still have never seen any builds that came close to mine (I love non meta and original). The amount of CC’s made my build a counter to bunkers. When they nerfed bunker builds and DPS came back, I fared well vs those as well. Then came the changes to Sneak Gyro and gyros now had a cast time. I went with it as the build was still feasible vs bunker and vs dps (crap vs condis tho, but thanks to the stun on blowing up gyros, I could usually cc them down long enough without getting condi bombed) Then a change lightning clap and the #2. Less CC but still barely managed vs condi classes. Now there is no stun on the gyros, my survivability on a build I have created is nerfed hard. Its no secret that condis are 80%+ of engi’s weakness (ive also played condi builds so I know this from years of experience). I understand that now my build (and those that utilized the stuns on gyros) that relied on skill to avoid condi bombs, now are weaker to it.

I don’t usually rant, but this one hit me really hard (4 gyros and an elixir) as I PvP with this.

Time to go back to the thoerycrafting board and make another nerfable build.

/endrant

Mulling.8421:

Yak’s bend will ascend to a new level of siege humping!

FeelsGoodMan

Was waiting for someone to mention YB,lol

Only time I ever join a zerg (unofficially, as in I don’t join the squad) is when there is a ZvZ going to happen. Otherwise, havoc/zerg busting for my crew.

I do agree that typical zergs are mindless (deploy as much siege as possible, destroy, cap and move on…rinse and repeat) however in a ZvZ, it takes a bit of skill to survive and come out on top so not ALL zerg play is mindless, just when the are focused on capping stuff.

Sooooo…..am I the only one that noticed that ANet is making the druid more of a healer class…and in turn making the druid a part of the holy trinity, something they said they wouldn’t do?

Maining a Druid in WvW, if they do change the healing aspect of us, Ill just tweak my build or my playstyle to compensate. No biggie. Gotta roll with the punches.

Imo people need to adjust their builds to counter condis. Wonder if its because most ppl run metabattle builds instead of custom builds. Nothing like knowing what 80%+ of ppl in WvW are running as soon as you see them to know that they suck to condis.

ps… I use a dps build as my main in WvW

A long time ago, in PvP there was a bunker meta. Pain in the butt that was as it was nothing but 3+ bunkers. I got tired of it and created my “Bunker Busting Butthead” and it was amazing. 2v1’d bunker builds and was able to decap/cap afterwards. I still use the build, although they nerfed it really hard. Only issue was condi reapers (which the following season was nothing but)

I still bring my scrapper and haven’t met a bunker build I was not able to steal the cap from.

Best way to beat bunker builds, CC’s and poison.

Justine.6351:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

I just don’t get why the smokescale’s smoke field isn’t a blind field as well. When you look at the animation, one would believe it was (misleading)

Projectiles and whirling finishers.

I was kinda looking at this as a druid version of thieves blinding powder. Not about the blind to combo, but blind on downed opponents.

It was just an observation, nothing more.

If enough people can cry CRUTCH, as in the past, Anet will do something to appease those that cannot fight/beat them.

This is a never ending debate xD

As it stands, druid will never be “meta” for WvW blobs which is probably for the best as I don’t do “meta” personally.

I will continue to just sit behind the enemy zerg and pick off just about anyone who died and tries to return, reducing the overall size of the zerg 1-3 ppl at a time (in some cases yes 3). Im ok with not being “meta”, just means ppl won’t expect me when going zvz. The most dangerous thing one can do is underestimating their opponents(s).

;)

I just don’t get why the smokescale’s smoke field isn’t a blind field as well. When you look at the animation, one would believe it was (misleading)

The true fixes to the WvW chat issues are:

1.) Add some sort of identifier relating to the BL the commenter is speaking from (server BL Name, server color for text…etc)
2.) Increase message count (or remove restriction) someone can speak in a given time. removing may not be viable as some people would then abuse it so it may be better to increase the number of messages/timeframe before being suppressed.

If these were implemented then problem solved.

Artaz.3819:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Whilst I cannot complain about any “meta” as I never run meta builds or do anything meta, my druid (staff/lb) does quite well 2v1 and 3v1 and have had people invite me to their party/squad (some pugmanders, some seem organized). I guess some servers need meta to win and some don’t. Either way, ill play (and stream) my druid and have fun

My guess is no one disagrees that Druids/Thieves/Engins are strong in a solo/havoc roaming role or if you are scouting for zerg. That’s not the point of this thread though.

Title should read: “Ranger/Druid Not Part of Current Zerg/Blob Meta”

Strong is all dependant on build. I couldn’t tell ya how many allies ive saved from being chased/stomped…etc. Im not perfect with my toon but there are ways I contribute and am getting good at it. Projectile block/field, aoe heals, CC’s. It’s all about the skill and I believe that is why they are no in the “Meta” for blobs. If we had more AOE than we would be more accepted.

Again, I have no issues. I rarely join squads unless they aim for zerg fights with capping more of a bonus. Had a commander who had a good fight last night (I actually joined the squad after cause I was unofficially with them) but he was raging hard shouting orders (not making suggestions, but literally ragging on everyone for their mistakes). Needless to say I stopped following right after. I saved him from being stomped 4 times, healed a good portion of the zerg, blocked projectiles and immobed a lot of mobile spamming enemies so our Daredevils/Zerzerkers could do their burst as well as kept small groups inside a air overload or 3.

We have the tools, but even when I fight other druids (again, im far from pro) I can point out ways they could have done better or been more effective if they done certain things at certain times (helped a few too who took my advice).

I remember on my old server there was a “class training” where a couple guilds would set up training sessions in PvP and WvW on the different combos, rotations…etc to get the most of your build. I loved the Mesmer one (this was like 2.5 yearsish ago). Its about knowing when a build can do that is holding us back from being welcomed in zergs and I can honestly say that a lot of commanders don’t know this and don’t care to know. (There are a bunch that know our potential so its not all).

People can argue this all ya want, we may not be the most useful class in a blob, but we def bring stuff to the table that can really help the group succeed.

Whilst I cannot complain about any “meta” as I never run meta builds or do anything meta, my druid (staff/lb) does quite well 2v1 and 3v1 and have had people invite me to their party/squad (some pugmanders, some seem organized). I guess some servers need meta to win and some don’t. Either way, ill play (and stream) my druid and have fun

I guess you can say that berserker is finally….balanced? ba dum tsss

BRZRKR OP, Anet PLZ NERF

TheDevice.2751:

Zintrothen.1056:

Funny that you complain all the time about Necromancers being weak and that Anet doesn’t play it, but then you also call it the “noob class.” If it’s so weak, then it obviously would require more skill to play against more powerful classes.

Oh I see. He’s trolling. He’s saying something nonsensical to start an argument.

Oh not at all. I absolutely believe that necro’s are the noob class for the most part. Especially condi’s and mm. The builds do most the work for you.

Based on your logic, all condi builds then are noob as the condis do the work for you.

Everytime I hear this, its due to some salty player who got pwn’d by condis. I have video proof of this (condi scrapper and condi druid here who records his matches) I see lots of salt, ranging from “ew, your condi so you are not a real build” and “You are running a condi build, that fight didn’t count”. Fact is, condi or not, noob or not, if a player finds a build they enjoy and are willing to learn/be good at, a build is a build so maybe git gud? Nothing more that can be said based on everything you complained about.

I came across one of these perma evade condi thieves in PvP…pretty trolly if you ask me. Saw he was in my next match (against me again) so I thought I would see how it dealt with one of my special troll builds. Lets just say that according to my Say chat, he didn’t like it. I was the only one on my team he couldn’t troll/harass/kill. Good thing about fighting a build like his, they are typically kitteny and like to fight.

Good thing about the one I used…Can’t kill what you can’t see

This build sounds interesting. I would love to find a PvP variant to test this “cheese”

When im bored I will run a vanilla thief build and let me tell you, the smartest thing you can do when you see a BP field is stand in it. No thief (unless traited for +200 power when revealed) doesn’t want to get revealed so you will either force them to reveal themselves by HS or sb2 and hit you, or you will cut their stealth shorter, giving them less time to prepare or less time to gtfo.

TheDevice.2751:

Struct.7453:

So your saying just play DH and win? Ha, you know the trap trick only works the first time. If you don’t learn then its natural selection…

The funny thing is people keep saying that but none of them must play necromancers.

CC + tRAps is death to any necromancer. The highest most precious comodity in this game right now is stability and necromancers have the least

Actually I just want to remind everyone what necromancers lack
- The least Stability in the game
- The least (zero) blocks in the game
- The least (zero) invulnerability in the game
- The least mobility in the game
- The least hard cc in the game
- The least healing in the game

I’m pretty sure I can go on. So maybe you’re right. Just don’t play necromancers this season is maybe what Anet is trying to tell everyone huh?

Oh and you’re comment means nothing when talking about objectives like Chieftain / Svanir and Lords.

EDIT: and another thing.

ITs funny that you bring up the exact same retort every other person brings up when talking about DH. I’m tier 7 Diamond and there are STILL full teams of DH. I’m sure when and if I get to legendary it will be even worse. 4+ DH a game. about 6 on average. This is not amber.

So what you’re saying is NOBODY has figured out how to not die by DH. Not even in Legendary. lol

Just wanted to mention that Thieves/DD’s have the least (zero) stability, and also have zero invulns.

Jortakk.6792:

Just want to throw some ideas out there for some skills that are almost never (or never) used.

General Summoned Thieves
- Make them scale competitively with levels, up to 2064 armour, 11645 health, 1560 precision, 560 ferocity, 1050 condition damage and 2050 power at level 80.
- Allow the summons use stealth attacks, contribute to point capture and use current weapon skills.
- Allow the male summon to use vital shot.
- Allow the female summon to dodge.
- Remove the female summon’s scorpion wire.

Ambush
- Reduce cooldown to 30 s.
- Reduce summon duration to 10 s.

Thieves Guild
- Make it a trap instead of a deception.
- Reduce summon duration to 15 s (makes it similar to rampage/signet of humility in that they are huge game changers in 1v1s, but rather than it being defensive it just gives a huge dps increase).

I understand what you are getting at, however as I posted a topic yesterday, Thieves guild needs a reduction in CD for more people to actually use it. I like the trap idea, however with my current set up, deception also works. If they finally fill more gaps for the elite (add an elite signet and an elite trap to complete their categories) they would need to replace the deception elite. Where there is a trap that summons a thief, Thieves Guild could work as a trap as well.

If they took your idea, but reduced the base CD to, lets say ~90s then that would be better and still balanced.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

However, when I read about WvW, GW touts that players work with commander teams (this game play is unique/exciting/expected). Roaming solo in WvW amounts to nothing more than running/getting picked off endlessly (unless in a havoc group, in which case, you won’t be capping SM or keeps).

So, running with zergs is not only beneficial to the server (esp as necro), but is only viable form of play in WvW. GW touts this play form as uniquely attractive. Its the only way players can immerse in full WvW experience – running with zerg to capture enemy bases.

Last nite, only one commander was on when I played. After running with the zerg team for hours, he kicked me and refused to let me rejoin. I asked if I’d done anything wrong. He said no. He wanted everyone on TS. I don’t have TS, can’t access it or listen to it for personal reasons. Yet, it helps me to run with the team, as I can read team comments and links, glean plans and follow zerg to successfully help team without TS.

I don’t understand how not having a 3rd party app makes it ok for commander to kick me from the only zerg/commander run zerg on the map.

I thought this game mode was available to all players – that we can all participate in the zerg/commander/capture enemy bases experience. If GW2 has become a TS only/team only game, why advertise it as a solo player-friendly game?

This seems deceptive. I play and bought the game solo. The game said I could play solo, but that’s not the case. I can PVE solo, but nothing else. PVP is team-based (I love new feature letting solo joiners join players immediately post match). Most teams/pvp guilds require TS. Raiding is impossible without TS.

I feel if TS/3rd party app is functionally a requirement of 90% of game experience (to raid, play PVP and WvW), why is GW2 not advertising this fact on its products, official website, wiki pages, and forums?

It’s frustrating. I want to play the game. I feel I am being discriminated or prejudiced against, and advertising has not been truthful. If I need TS to run a raid, engage in PVP or WvW, or to experience these game modes to any reasonable extent (how do I capture a keep without a zerg), why is this not stated prior to purchase?

I asked this in chat last nite – players said to play at other times with friendlier commanders. I can’t play other times. I can understand kicking cuz you don’t have a certain game requirement, but to kick cuz you don’t have access to a 3rd party app seems ridiculous and prejudicial, especially against poor or disabled people (like the deaf). I could understand if there are other options available, or other commanders/zergs, but there was only one choice – so it was get TS and get to play or get lost – go do something else, play some other time, get killed running, to try to solo cap supply camps and ogres all night.

This seems harsh, unnecessary and discriminatory. I was surprised at how nasty and rude players were. I asked why I’d been kicked, explained I can’t access TS, and asked if I was doing something wrong. I was told I was fine and done nothing wrong but commander required TS to join (after running with team for hours). People got really ugly defending commander’s decision. One said I was getting free bags. I resent this – I worked hard to win, played hard and contributed a lot. I offered to give my bags to commander or other players cuz I just wanted to help BG win.

Please explain why the game says you can play all these modes, but the reality is different. I’m not trying to be a troll. I’m trying to understand. Please keep rude responses to yourself – I’m looking for helpful explanations. Thanks.

Whilst I understand why you were kicked, personally I wouldn’t have as I don’t condone it myself.

Another thing is that havoc groups (as little kitten ppl) can take keeps and SM. About a month(ish) ago I took 3 other guildies and a pug and took a keep (defended by a few players) and even got to the lord of the 2nd keep. I also commanded 10 people and took SM from a server who had about 7 -8 people defending it. It is possible, it all depends on the commanders experience and strategies. (I personally have a strat that is pretty solid, even if we knock a wall down but get pushed out and has a 80%ish success rate, but ive been WvW on and off since I started 3.75 years ago and seen what real strategies are that don’t involve blobbing).

Point is, havoc groups can do big things as they can move around the field with less chances of getting detected compared to a zerg. You don’t always have to be in a zerg (but it helps). Pop a tag, tell people what you are doing and once you get enough people, have at it.

emkelly.2371:

If you drop an ambush trap. then for some reason wait out seconds it takes to recharge (because you cannot swap skills while they are on cooldown) then swap the ampush trap utility skill for another utility skill (any skill that is not already on your bar) the amush trap will disapear. Period. i don’t know where to got your information or if you are exploiting a bug in the system, but i tried it in HotM and it definitely disappears.

^ this.

However his mentioned build mention gives purpose to thieves guild. I forgot venoms synergize well with them (and you still stay stealth). So much more damage and I took out a trap to replace with smokescreen where perma stealth is easier (with the reduction in deception, thieves guild is still a long CD of 144 sec, but the condo damage when they are up is real)

Hello,

It’s no secret that this can be a useful utility, however its cast time, even when spec’d, is still huge. 144 seconds when traited for 30s of the NPC’s.

My proposition would be to make the base CD to 100s – 120s and have the NPC’s out for 20s.

This would make Thieves guild more viable/used with the smaller CD, but balance it with the lower NPC up time per cast.

They also synergize very well with utilities such as venoms.

Opinions are welcome as long as they are not kittenbaggery.

Thanks for reading,
Celestia

When you have a few people huddled together, typically one of 3 things happen:

1.) Thief uses SB and gets away
2.) Thief gets CC’s to lock them until their demise
3.) A brezerker/DPS daredevil bursts them down and/or theres a class with more mobility and you get bursted down while being chased. SB is the only form of mobility so 2/3 teleports max, then basic running speed.

Dangus.6572:

honestly… This ghost thief build is good for 2 things (troll and stay in stealth). Why bother or even engage him? Just go away and let him die from boredom. You can always put Stealth disruptor, /sleep, kill him and then read hate messages about how unfair you were.

Any thieves that trigger the stealth trap and complain about being unfair, deserves what he gets,lol. Not once has myself or the 2 I roam with from time to time complained about them (then again must be the reason were adults and not 11 year olds)

Mind you if I saw someone /sleep and is aware im around I know theres a trap present,lol.

maddoctor.2738:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

TL;DR – Bring Stealth Traps and a way to catch us after we are revealed.

Stealth trap takes ages to deploy. A Thief will see it and just not engage, the moment you move from your spot they’ll attack.

Not necessarily

If we are dropping a field to HS through, we are focused on hitting the field, not always on the target, until were done stealthing. If a buddy of mine is on and were roaming, he watches out for the trap. If I see someone in the distance and they see me stealth, they know I may be coming and if they drop it then, I wont see it.

NOW, if im stealthed already and I see you drop the trap, I will obv note where it is and wait you out. If you bail, ill either wait for you to leave and trigger the trap to get rid of it in case I see someone else around there later, or I will chase.

I will admit it is a cheese build. I have been using my ghost thief while im between toons (trying to come up with a good build for another toon but in the meantime in using this for now, and only been using it for about a week). It is a novelty build that is surprisingly effective on most people.

My advice, either keep running (as we are not as fast as normal thieves), or if you are going to fight/hide where we can get you, bring a stealth trap or lots of condi cleanses. AOE’s don’t do squat and neither do condis (dire gear and we regen/clear condis while in stealth)

If you see a black powder spot on the ground, stand in it. We will either hit you (revealing ourselves) or shorten our stealth time, wasting initiative. If we have no initiative, we cannot stealth (most of us don’t use SR).

Reveals for less than 6 sec wont work (shortbow helps us make sure of that).

If you are going to run, bring swiftness as we run faster while stealthed (run in front, drop trap, start condi burst) If we have to waste init on SB5 to catch up, that’s a waste of initiative unless we know 100% we are going to down you.

Rev/Scrapper/Ranger reveals wont help as after our burst, we distance ourselves to check our stealth time.

TL;DR – Bring Stealth Traps and a way to catch us after we are revealed.

If this ever happened, and ANet got it right, this would make underwater combat more viable and actually a good option. If they do this, maybe tweak some traits to lean toward buffs or something that would aid in underwater fighting.

apharma.3741:

babazhook.6805:

No that is not the issue with those objecting to the substance of this thread.

The issue is that the people who want the build nerfed have no clue as to what makes it work and are suggesting solutions that will compromise legitimate builds without addressing this build at all.

There will then be the same group of voices making the same complaints resulting in more builds compromised.

The build uses one trap yet is called a condi trapper when there nothing op at all with thief traps , and the people keep complaining about trapper runes when there superior versions that do not use trappers.

As such , given the suggested cures worse than the overstated problems , until there a proper solution proposed it better they be left as is and people just learn to deal with them.

I know it only uses 1 trap however it is the function of that 1 trap that you have to look at. The trap is used to keep someone in the caltrops to stack up all the bleeds which is mostly the condition that kills them. Without either trip wire or needle trap to keep people in the caltrops most people can simply run or cripple walk out of it without too much trouble.

Sure they will take a fair bit of damage but they will have healed it up before the next caltrop and if they keep moving the uncatchable caltrops won’t put much bleed on. Additionally as others have noted the thief would have to take the reduced cool down on deceptions trait to stay perma stealthed giving up condition cleanse in stealth which means conditions will be an effective counter.

The other options to make this build not in the grounds of damage while perma stealth would be to give all classes reveal, reduce D/P stealth with SA or reduce other aspects of the class for example condition durations. All these would compromise more builds than a targeted change to traps and you’d get even more vocal “thief mains” crying about the class being gutted, needing the most skill etc etc.

By all means I think most people would welcome stealth as a mechanic being overhauled to be more involving on both sides but I just don’t see that happening.

Reduced cooldown on deceptions…most of these ppl using this build run SA/DA/Tr. You don’t need reduced cooldowns on deception abilities to have perma stealth…trust me.

Jeknar.6184:

Mokk.2397:

Removal of Runes of the trapper is ridiculous..It would be a complete waste of time using them primarily for the stealth because your revealed upon trigger.

You don’t get revealed on thief traps because they don’t have direct damage, and only direct damage reveals you from stealth.

However, as pointed out multiple times in this thread, ghost thief don’t need runes of the trapper to remain permanently invisible, making it even more dangerous because they have access to other runes like Perplexity/Tormenting/Krait/Balthazar which increase their condition kit.

Of course… You’ll only die to a ghost thief if: you are not running condi removal; you are trying to fight it; there are multiple of them against you alone. The best way to deal with ghost thief is to not deal with them at all. “Don’t feed the troll” and walk away…

This….this is what makes you more likely a target. To walk away you are giving them the thrill of the hunt. This is what they feed off of. To do this is to feed the trolls. There is 1 trick that any class can do that will make them run or they will get downed and stomped.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

It’s not easy to do the temporary achievements. Not all players pick Capricorn, and when you do get to play it, you can’t win all the time. Plus, not all players have 8 hours a day to queue for Capricorn. And since this is Unranked, there’s really no reason to pick a non-Capricorn map. Players just wanting to play can do one of the many Hotjoin maps, or do Ranked for more serious competition.

While I understand what you are saying, I really don’t think having people not being able to pick unranked for that reason is the most reasonable approach. I agree when someone said that there should be a separate queue for this map only due to the temp achieves (that I never knew about nor cared about before now)

I can confirm that it can be done without trapper runes, but you only need d/p, smokescreen and possibly either SR or BP with other condi runes (krait/nightmare). I still used traps but didn’t NEED them. SA may not have been needed but it helps greatly when not using trapper runes.

Tested in PvP and WvW

Rotteny.8743:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

why are you even arguing over it lol? its a trash build thats only good for trolling and thats it.

See you in WvW or PvP then mate

New “ghost thief” user here

In pvp you would be even more useless since you need to be visible to contest a point. And anyone with decent condi clear can walk away from ghost thief.
Have fun killing idiots tho. I know there are plenty out there.

This is where you are wrong good sir and/or/madam

Funny you say this as I posted something in the PvP thread earlier today

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/About-Endure-Pain/first#post6323033

To save trouble going there, this is what I posted (as a reply):

Ragion.2831:

Cynz.9437:

It is still useful, just need to be more careful about because Anet handled braindead reveal to revs and engis – sole reason why you can’t play core thief in pvp in higher tiers /clap

A good thief can play very well revealed. Its bad thieves that constantly need to be spamming stealth. These are the ones that dont know what to do with themselves when they cant go into stealth. The problem with thief is DH and their lack of damage reduction to handle the power creep.

MY REPLY BELOW

Just because, I took a perma stealth into PvP (Both ranked and unranked) and while I find that capping was an issue (for obvious reasons), I still managed to decap and rez and support my team with points (unranked about 1st/2nd highest point count, ranked never fell below 3rd with a minimum of 135 points) and had matches where I pulled multiple people off points to hunt me, . These numbers were from 12 unranked, 10 ranked. I have gotten revealed maybe 4-5 times around people and I certainly knew what to do. Out of the 22 matches, maybe downed 4 times at most, rezzed 15+ people without fail.

Tell me again how only bad thieves spam stealth and don’t know what to do when revealed?

END REPLY

I have my matches recorded for training purposes, and will probably post something on YT after I do some some editing.

Ragion.2831:

Cynz.9437:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Cynz.9437:

I still get teammates that run out of refuge (e.g. when we try to invade far at begin of the match) or spam AA while in downed state while i apply stealth on them and attempt to rez them. Welcome to legend, guize~

I also remember when stealth used to be an effective feature to bring to the team.

It is still useful, just need to be more careful about because Anet handled braindead reveal to revs and engis – sole reason why you can’t play core thief in pvp in higher tiers /clap

A good thief can play very well revealed. Its bad thieves that constantly need to be spamming stealth. These are the ones that dont know what to do with themselves when they cant go into stealth. The problem with thief is DH and their lack of damage reduction to handle the power creep.

Just because, I took a perma stealth into PvP (Both ranked and unranked) and while I find that capping was an issue (for obvious reasons), I still managed to decap and rez and support my team with points (unranked about 1st/2nd highest point count, ranked never fell below 3rd with a minimum of 135 points) and had matches where I pulled multiple people off points to hunt me, . These numbers were from 12 unranked, 10 ranked. I have gotten revealed maybe 4-5 times around people and I certainly knew what to do. Out of the 22 matches, maybe downed 4 times at most, rezzed 15+ people without fail.

Tell me again how only bad thieves spam stealth and don’t know what to do when revealed?

Fat Disgrace.4275:

why are you even arguing over it lol? its a trash build thats only good for trolling and thats it.

See you in WvW or PvP then mate

New “ghost thief” user here

Ive seen this build and do use a variation, however ive encountered one in WvW that seemed to be able to pile on the condis faster than I could. The setup I think it is (as I cannto find it online) is something like this, or with trailblazers stats for condi duration (this one Im linking is dire).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaVlsMh2mY1Tw7Jw+EHyElePniAwvFjxHyzhW4GA-T1xCQBASfwGV+5J1fC3+DrUJIAeEAH7MAQKAImGB-w

Playing something similar there too much of a cooldown period between condi bursts (heal/steal, then drop trap and dodge and dodge on top of them for the caltrops and move away to restealth). You literally have to wait a while to start your burst again, leaving lots of time to heal/cleanse.

One player I saw (or didn’t) in WvW did something similar (or so I believe) however his bursts were not as far in between and far more effective. Can anyone maybe look at this build and see if there is any other way to squeeze more condis or decrease the burst time?

100% stealth uptime is great and you would surprised on the “terror” levels of my targets. It is a slower process I will admit and I mistake that reveals you will cause you possible death. It amazing how bad you can troll a group with it…even inside their own camps. PvP its great to catch someone between points but capping is a bit harder (I tend to just decap and bail). Its great when no one sees you so don’t try to interrupt you or teleport away when they are downed. Also good at keeping 2/3 ppl in one spot as ya bug em to the point they just want you dead.

Hotjoin, as I found out last night…the build effectiveness not the fact that hotjoin exists…it was extremely effective. Set up a condi burst and watch them down and stomped…all without not seeing you. There was a crazy mess in a room where there was no “official” duel but a free for all…couldn’t tell ya how effective and trolly it was there.

WvW its a bit slower, however even if they ran, once I got them immob, more often than not you can stay on them and down them.

You need a lot of patience for this but its very rewarding. It may be cheese but you do need a bit of skill vs good players as you need to stealth at the right locations at the right time.

SA is great and even though not every build needs it, those that have it make great use of it. Extra stealth on everything you do. People cannot kill what they cannot see.

2 words….permanent stealth

Im not home atm so I will post the build later. For those that don’t care and leave, My buddy and I (who runs the same build) use them as practice tbh. Eventually someone cares or they down quickly. 99% of ppl we come across fight back (or try). The fun of the hunt.

I also only run 1 trap utility but do use trapper runes

Dangus.6572:

I find vanilla thief is ok for wvw. I like to control battlefield so I play D/P. Very few can kill me on 1v1 so most of time my targets are small groups. D/P is perfect to slow down groups, down or kill players. Usually I roam alone. Due to lag I cant play in big groups. Most of mistakes are lethal. Also this nerf to stealth attacks. Its nearly impossible to predict targets movement and even make a hit because of defensive boon sharing in blobs or zergs. Is thief fun? Oh yeah.

P.S. Necros are easy targets.

If you want a fast fight, thieves are only ok in WvW…after trying my buddy’s build, the slow agonizing trolling death it brings with permastealth is extremely satisfying…expecially when you can down/stomp without them even seeing you. HIDDEN KILLAH

A buddy of mine saw a build in WvW (vanilla thief) and it was very trolly and effective. 100% stealth uptime and it was a condi build. You can easily play with 3/4/5 people and can typically down them, however due to the nature of the build it actually takes a bit of time but very rewarding due to watching them auto attack the air between condi bursts.

I took it into PvP last night (the salt tasted good) and it was fantastic. Not the best for capping (100% stealth uptime does that…be cool if Anet changed that you can cap while stealthed) but no one saw me coming or going…it was magical.

yiksing.9432:

Spec power build>die a few times>respec condi trapper build>kill many times>feel happy for a while>starts wondering whether u r good or carried by build>respec power build…….. the vicious cycle of playing thief.

Yeah my buddy that I mentioned feels bad and feels cheese with his vanilla condi thief build, but it sets my bursts up nicely (immob enemy drops very fast when im on them) but his build is effective (love watching him troll 4 ppl hovering over by body, only to get me up and we end up beating them…its magical) best part is he records us roaming so its better to watch the events again (minus me dying being a noobish DPS daredevil with little stealth uptime,lol…I need to learn to use my d/p stealth combos more often)