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And this discrimination is easily remedied if you just roll a warrior or mesmer.
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Totally putting this in my signature, and quoting you.
Unless you are serious? Wait… this is a troll, right?
If you want to play basketball at the gym and it says “ATHLETIC SHOES REQUIRED” then you put on the your kittening sneakers and go play, you don’t post a million posts in the forums whining about how they won’t let you on the court in sandals
Two of us did our homework by reading and watching guides, the others were kind enough to follow our tips.
You said incompetent. This line here clearly shows your group was anything but.
They used the word incompetent on purpose to draw out all of us “scumbag elitists”. Also note the fact that the OP points out there was a ranger, they’re just trying to bait responses.
yeah the “play the way you want” part is the giveaway.
we believe in that too, by the way. it’s just that the way we want to play is not with 3 hour runs.
What’s the end result if you nerf feedback? Pugs don’t use it to its potential. They’re not speedclearing Arah to get some crazy kitten rewards since it doesn’t reward kitten anyway and you’re better off doing CoF or CoE for monetary gain. You nerf feedback, and then DnT, DS, LoD and HC can’t do their crazy-kitten speedclears. That’s it. Pugs keep pugging (read: playing like kitten), and the few people who actually do use it properly will feel it.
A nerf to feedback is a kick in the gut to people who are good at the game, that’s about it.
5:11:3:159:101 for me after trying to change zones. When I log back in with that character it tries to load the zone I was in then switches to loading the zone I was trying to get to, then dumps out with the network error.
Two professions has been brought up in the replies. One of them is the legit answer, then other one is 100% troll answer. Can you tell which is which?
btw, people hate thieves because most thief players are bad and they don’t bring much to the group.
I’d say thieves are second only to rangers for the likelihood of being babby pew-pew-pew players at range. every SB/pistolpistol thief makes me want to die.
That quote is exactly whats wrong with the gw2 community. Anet basically encouraged everyone to leech. In wow you dont take all healers or all tanks, you take what you need. Why should gw2 be any different? The advantage gw2 has is that any class can play any of the roles relatively well and you can provide support while still dealing good damage. The problem is noone realises that and they try to all play full support or tank with 4 other full support tanks and so the dungeon is a horrible snail paced fiasco.
People are so determined to play how they want that they forget they are supposed to be working as a team to clear dungeons. Most dont even swap weapons or utilities to deal with each situation more effectively.
If I was pugging fractals and someone just dipped out without saying anything I’d shrug and go post for a fifth. If they told me it’s cause they just wanted their daily I’d call them a moron since there are tons of easier and quicker ways to get your daily. Then I’d go post for a fifth.
1. DR and dungeon reward reduction aren’t the same thing. If you run P1/P2 on Warrior you’ll get 60 tokens and whatever the full silver reward is. If you switch to Mesmer and run P1/P2 you’ll get the same 60 tokens and full silver reward. If you swap back to Warrior, you’ll get reduced tokens and silver for subsequent runs that day until server reset.
2. You wouldn’t have a problem getting a group, though you might not get a full zerker group because they’re kinda dumb and don’t understand that a DPS-spec guardian or thief won’t slow anything down. I mean when’s the last time you got one of those PUG groups that can actually get 4 runs per consumable? Smart people would take you with no issues, but you might have to make or join an “all classes” LFG post.
Or 15% crit chance (and a buttload of crit damage) from Discipline?
You actually have more crit chance from having points in arms rather than discipline for this trait. Tested while in combat.
I’ve heard heightened focus is bugged and not giving the right amount of crit chance though, so this fact might change in a later patch. As of now, crit chance is NOT the reason why you’d pick this trait line at all, if you want to invest in discipline you’re free to do so but doing it for the crit chance from the grandmaster trait is dumb.
I’m going to make a video this afternoon showing how quickly you can get a group using LFG posts that say “all classes welcome”. We can just then post that in response to every single thread like this that comes along (like 2 or 3 times a day it seems)
Nice, congrats. What was your reason for two mesmers if you dont mind sharing?
with how deep people are getting his HP bar with a feedback they’re not even getting the full use of time warp in phase 3 so I guess a mes to drop time warp in phase 1 works out to more damage than a 4th warrior. plus if you had perfect RNG he would do a barrage as his opener for phase 3, a second feedback could kill him instantly.
So what are all the damage modifiers stacking up for the mesmer? 3 illusions out for 9%, 3 mantras for 12%, a potion for 10%, I’m assuming force and undead slaying for 15%, scholar runes for 10%, vuln for 25%, Wastrel’s Punishment for 5%…anything else? I just don’t see how your group and the Define group are able to get 30K hits on that feedback o_0
when I’m pugging and someone suggests doing that in AC I just ruthlessly mock them as big whiny range-fighting babies. that usually convinces them to just melee the boss
however, running through trash mobs is totally acceptable imo. if they gave loot I’d kill them.
Arah is also the 1 dungeon where every class has their strengths and are completely viable… except rangers. Poor Poor rangers. They can do it, they’re just not even close to as good as any of the other classes.
Lupi can attack the ranger’s pet, ranger’s pet can revive ranger if nobody is around to res him (downed state), extra range on rangers is also pretty usefull, I have a level 7 ranger so I know some bits and pieces, but I think rangers can bring more to the table
PLEASE DON’T CONTROL FOR VARIABLES, IT MAKES IT HARDER FOR ME TO SKEW THE RESULTS
Now you guys see why I don’t bother making videos for you guys. You’re basically incapable of actually testing anything in any sort of remotely structured manner.
Might as well just put the ranger in green cleric’s gear. Or hell, have the ranger die at the beginning of the fight and go “well that’s just cause rangers die a lot” and pretend it was an objective test.
I didn’t realize that the actual clear times of the dungeon were what mattered when you wanted to get rewards faster. I also didn’t know that was the point of speedclearing either. Now I’m wondering if you were a test tube baby birthed in a sterile and perfect environment by fanatical science parents, and my head is spinning at rate that you couldn’t even calculate.
Yeah I was ready to take it seriously for a bit, not that I entertained even the slightest nanoparticle of thought that any of his BS is actually correct, but seeing the last couple posts just made me realize that I don’t give a kitten and I’m not gonna waste my time. Any evidence we offer of reality (anything an engy/ranger group can do, warriors can do faster) will be brushed aside by not counting the total dungeon time as the ultimate, and only sane, metric.
-well you used time warp, warriors are by nature more DPS in that, results invalid
-well you shouldn’t measure the kill time for that one group by the door since warriors can do it faster, results invalid
-you can’t measure the run time where warriors can use WW and Rush, results invalid
-your warriors had 6/6 ascended trinkets and rangers had only 5/6, results invalid
and on and on and on and godkitten some people should not be allowed to internet
Don’t count the Acolytes since Warriors can kill them faster.
And don’t use Time Warp because it makes warrior groups higher DPS than ranger/engy groups (like they aren’t already).
I don’t know why I’m even bothering to take this kitten seriously, I know exactly what’s going to happen. Wish the trolls would just kitten off already.
So I’m trying to get the hang of ranger sword to give it a fair shake (I only used SB/LB/GS while levelling up), but I’m having issues. I have autotargeting off because sometimes I like to attack without targeting or attack while having something else targeted, but this doesn’t seem possible with ranger sword due to the leaps involved with the attack chain dragging me away from the enemy I’m trying to hit. The attack skills also seem to be able to be spammed twice before reverting to Slash, which takes me about 600 range AWAY from what I want to hit.
Is this intentional by Anet, and how do you avoid it? I don’t have this problem on any of my other melee classes, so….seems like a big ranger defect.
It’s hard to say without a few tests, to be honest. Because I strongly feel that 0/25/0/15/30 is highest DPS..
Is there any agreement? Yasi suggested 30/30/5/X earlier with GS/LB. I’d like to know what Guang thinks is the trait setup that will out-DPS a warrior.
Hate to waste my time doing this for people to just say YOU DID IT WRONG! but that’ll happen anyway, so maybe it doesn’t matter.
People can “run whatever they want” (read: PVT and cleric’s trash) in their own groups. If I and people I play with won’t allow non-zerker people in our groups that’s our prerogative.
I don’t know.
It kind of depends if your null hypothesis is meant to be self-enclosed to the speedrun farming meta or if you mean to extrapolate larger implications for dunning running as a whole? Two totally different kinds of tests, there.
Even then, critical hits and weapon variability and the daunting human factor is enough of a swing that you should really be focusing on statistical significance. It’s just too easy to find correlations in smaller population sizes.
If rangers contribute more DPS than warriors then replacing warriors with rangers should yield a statistically significant reduction in average dungeon run time. If they are statistically equal (or at least within the margin of error for our measurements), there should be no perceivable difference. If they’re much worse (my vote though I’ll try not to taint the measurements) then there should be a significant increase in run time.
And if we really do settle on CoF/1 as the proving ground, note that 8 minutes versus 6 minutes is not trivial.
Well here’s mine so far, the only thing I have not exotic are my weapons so if you’ll let me know what weapons I should get and what trait and utility setup to use then it’s all about running a few times for practice.
Chopps: peronally I feel like those vouching for the ranger should be organizing their own tests and as of yet they have failed to demonstrate their claims. With the preponderance of evidence towards warrior groups being the fastest clearing groups, the burden really does lie on the rangers at this point.
However, since we’re actually getting around to scientifical discussions here, I’d be willing to help test out. I’m not the best player but I do have both warrior and ranger in full zerk at 80. If you’ll arrange a null hypothesis and testing scenario, I’d be glad to participate (and record, my comp can capture pretty well with Afterburner).
From Guang’s claim, it sounds like a decent test would be a series of CoF/1 runs of 4W/1M versus 3R/1W/1M. If you’d like to propose any other test, feel free.
Melee and cycle reflects/absorbs. It’s possible to do after a wipe but a lot harder than it is the first time. If you decide it’s too hard then your team has failed and has to repeat the dungeon so you can get it right on the first attempt. Sorry.
but isn’t optimal and min/maxing supposed to be very focused in accomplishing the fastest and most efficient speed runs?
Yes, however in the case of the current ‘meta’, it isn’t really unconditionally optimal. Well, I guess it depends on how you define optimal for yourself. The current standard for dungeons works exceptionally when used by players who are capable to run it properly. However, due to the nature of the build(s), it’s less catering to players who are perhaps new to the game or just less competent. For these people, it could be more optimal for them to bring more defense and less offense, as they’ll potentially spend less time wiping due to missing a dodge or w/e.
op·ti·mal
Adjective
Best or most favorable; optimum.
That is a really good point actually and one that I’ve generally avoided in all these discussions thus far. From a player-centered POV, optimal is whatever gets you through the dungeon the fastest, and if you’re having trouble in melee and spending more time as a Floorior than on your feet, then it could easily be that your clear time is shortened by being back at range with engineer or ranger.
However, I think myself and most folks when discussing “optimal” meta groups are discussing a dungeon-centered POV, where we ask what group can clear this dungeon the fastest. In that case the evidence is clear- ranger, engy and necro are not invited.
If rangers, engies, and guardians do better DPS than warriors then a team of 5 composed of 1 mesmer, 1 warrior, 1 engy, 1 ranger, and 1 guardian should be able to clear whatever dungeon or fractal faster than 1 mesmer, 1 guardian, and 3 warriors.
I don’t waste my time because people are dumb, exactly like we’re seeing this thread right this instant, and it’s not going to make a difference. There are very easy to ways to test individual DPS contribution, and looking at the overall clear times between two completely different groups isn’t one of them.
Why is a 4 warrior/1 mesmer group faster at clearing CoF than one with guards/engies/rangers if not individual DPS contribution? You keep saying that they’re not faster, but do you have any actual video evidence of that?
Also quit strawmanning everyone with this ridiculous “big numbers” argument that no one is making. The only numbers we keep harping on is clear times for dungeons. If you have evidence of E/R/G groups with better clear times than warriors, I’d love to see them.
Which is particulary caused by the slower killing time. If guang has been a warrior the slaver driver would have probably died in timewarp.
You’re comparing pug with probably a tanky guardian to an organized group playing together longer than 2 minutes.
There are plenty of people suggesting to help do the experiment by bring an organized group and having Guang be the 5th slot with whatever he’s suggesting would improve the time of (in case of CoF) 1M/4W. That’s exactly what happened with Kitsune, and he proved his case which is why LH ele is a widely accepted component in speed groups now.
But Guang isn’t interested in actually proving his claims, which is why he doesn’t take anyone up on those offers.
Also to nemeth, if Group Comp X clears a certain dungeon path in anywhere from 5:40-6:00 and Group Comp Z clears it in 6:10-6:30, we don’t need to be mathmagicians to say that Z is slower.
You calculate the group’s DPS by a known quantity (i.e. 1 Evolved Destroyer) of damage over a known quantity of time (i.e. 1 shield drop). It doesn’t matter what the quantity of time is, but longer is better for sustainability’s sake. As long as you’re consistent between comparisons it doesn’t matter.
There is no encounter in PvE that can be done faster with rangers and engineers in place of warriors. If anyone wants to prove that wrong I’ll salvage my Fused or Fractal Greatsword, your choice.
Hardest part of that is finding three Engineers or Rangers
lol yeah
I have engy and ranger at 80 and would volunteer, but I would need instruction on how to use ranger to maximize dps and engy, well…not even in berserker gear so probably not.
You calculate the group’s DPS by a known quantity (i.e. 1 Evolved Destroyer) of damage over a known quantity of time (i.e. 1 shield drop). It doesn’t matter what the quantity of time is, but longer is better for sustainability’s sake. As long as you’re consistent between comparisons it doesn’t matter.
There is no encounter in PvE that can be done faster with rangers and engineers in place of warriors. If anyone wants to prove that wrong I’ll salvage my Fused or Fractal Greatsword, your choice.
They should have made the ranger pet scale with gear (adopt crit dmg bonus, etc) and made the pet autos for melee pets cleave and implement aoe resistance for the pet. Then the ranger wouldn’t be suffering as it does because 40% of his damage doesn’t scale with berserker stats (as pets get no more than 30% crit dmg bonus).
Unless the ranger had a ridiculously high (sustainable) amount of damage over the warrior, it’d still be better to take a warrior no matter what you do to ranger weapons or pets.
FOTM 48 aside,
Contribution = DPS + group might/fury + vuln stacks
Use gw2lfg.com and post a message on the dungeon you want to do that says “LF3M for [whatever], got 2 first timers so instructions would be appreciated.”
Blammo, you’ll get a group in no time, probably with someone who has no problem explaining what you should be doing.
In my experience the ranger class doesn’t attract the type of player that you can reach with evidence that they’re not contributing as much as they could to their team by using a wrongbow/dead pet setup. I mean the advice I’d give to rangers actually trying to not leech off of their team would be along the lines of:
-use GS or axe/sword/warhorn
-drake/feline pets I guess? Swap and manage F3/passive when necessary
-berserker gear obviously
but a player receptive to that kind of information and why that would be an improvement is probably smart enough to have done the research and realized how much of a drain the ranger usually is on a team, so they probably wouldn’t be bringing it to the dungeon to begin with.
Ranger class attracts the worst players in the game, and they’re the kind that think the participation ribbon you get from the tokens popping up at the end are all that matters to a dungeon run. The same generally holds true for necros and engineers, though I’d take a good engineer over the other 2.
The easiest and most concise advice for how better to contribute to a dungeon run is to reroll away from those classes.
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