whatever, so done with this horsekitten game that gets worse every two weeks and its awful devs and the worst playerbase in mmo history
if anyone is getting back into Diablo 3 for RoS which comes out next year, holla at me broseidon#1426. I will powerlevel your kittens for free, use promo code “ELITIST”.
This is Ripley, last survivor of the Nostromo, signing off.
Hmm isn’t it interesting that nothing has happened to this thread despite it veering so far off track? Could it be that no bads are getting their feelings hurt and mashing the report button in furious crybaby anger?
Let’s say you make a build with X dps. You test it on static target and get 0.9 * X dps because of ping/lag/whatever. Then you try build with Y dps. Now if assumed that you do same mistakes/lag/whatever you only get 0.9 * Y dps.
Maybe I missed it, but where are these tests? That’s exactly what I’m advocating doing! I get your point that it would be redundant if it matched up exactly with the spreadsheet math, but as far as I know no “big-picture” correlative tests whatsoever have ever been done to confirm the spreadsheet results of any build comparisons.
And if you think that it’s a pointless waste of time because the spreadsheets are perfect, all I’m asking you to do is prove it.
There was a thread a few months ago where people were speed killing the champ quaggan in FG, if they have a reasonably fixed HP, wouldn’t that type of set up allow for a reasonable assessment of individual contribution with relative times?
I think the Quaggan is probably too aggressive to take out the high variables of individual skill. My times versus Wethospu’s time would most likely be drastically different even with the same build. Not to mention the issue of people getting in your way, since it’s part of the idiotic supa-casual champ train.
The cost excuse could fly if this was several months ago before the dungeon rewards were implemented. Now, that’s one casual day of dungeon runs, even if you’re broke to start with. No excuse.
You’ll notice that there’s a message about taking initiative to set up your own events. Just signing up here and getting accepted to the guild is not enough to get into groups. There should be lots more activity on the site’s calendar for all the people that continuously post to this thread!
On paper 1w/1r/1eng/1ele/1m is the highest dps party comp in the game give or take. Yet in most cases, speed runs are faster with 4w/1*.
The difference in times between the paper dps group and the real world is what intrigues me. Obviously the answer is shouts are instant cast and can be done on the move, and warriors are the only class besides engie that are good at might stacking AND vuln stacking. And unlike engie they can do it on the run. But nonetheless, I do like exploring that gap in paper and reality.
Agreed. This is one reason I want to attempt to empirically verify the individual dps contributions.
Always remember that for any random pug, you’re also a pug.
The term pug has transcended the basic definition of “pickup group” and gained a connotation of “play how you wanna player”, i.e. someone who is ultra-casual and doesn’t put forward any effort to maximize their personal or team efficiency.
Thus the difference between “I was in a pug the other day and there was this idiotic staff-camping guardian in CoE. I know he was in full PTV cause he just facetanked Alpha.”
What dungeon would you suggest a new player to start in, and what level?
I have no clue where any of these dungeons are. Right now I am in the human area, finding the closest dungeon to that would be very helpful!
I would suggest that a new player not start in any dungeons at all. The dungeons, while spaced out evenly starting from level 30 onwards, are not really designed to be easy for a new player still levelling up. The difficulty curve in going from open world content in level 30 zones to AC (the first dungeon) is extremely steep. You don’t necessarily have to wait to be level 80, but I’d suggest at least 55-60 or later, so that you have more familiarity with your class, more utility skills unlocked (elites especially), more powerful traits available, and gear that has 3 stats.
Sorry I must really be explaining this horribly and sorry about that. I understand that the field on bottom is the one that takes priority, but when a fire bomb is place it doesn’t immediately become a fire field, it has a delay before it explodes, and that is when I keep getting dark fields put over the top of it, once it has been set but has not yet exploded. LOL perhaps I’m just whining too much.
Nah it’s a legit complaint, but to be expected when pugging with necros. If they don’t have the presence of mind to bring a better class to a dungeon they probably don’t have the faintest understanding of utilizing blasts to stack might. They probably also think spamming area blinds is pretty awesome despite fighting Dredge.
You don’t need to pull that far back to fight the abom without aggroing inquest. Just to the corner of the rock formation on the left is fine, whether you use the safe spot ramp or not.
I don’t understand either why this is really needed. On static target math should get the same result. If it doesn’t then your math sucks and you should work on that. Once you know that your math works you can generate any kind of situation and try to simulate reality.
I understand wanting check if animations are timed correctly or that skills actually do what they say. Like calculate average DPS for Axe chain and then just Axe chain the Ooze to death. And see if they match.
I would have liked to be apart of that design meeting: “Let’s make a spider boss where you have to step on each other in a corner to beat it. Yeah, that’s intuitive.” It’s an exploit, plain and simple. Going toe to toe would be fighting her in the room she spawns in. Not dragging her to a corner where 90% of the damage is lost. You’re not making sense.
You can kite her around the large statue in the middle to the exact same effect. And it’s not 90% of the damage, since the cone spray and regular melee attack will still hurt if you don’t burn her down quickly.
But hey, keep crusading against using your head in dungeons I guess.
Honestly, I just wonder what the point of a lot of this is, since it seems like many of our woes can be solved with math. I can see the use in many of these tests if you are going to figure out stuff like
I don’t think anyone has flat out stated it yet. One method is to kite her out of the center of the arena, towards the door that opens up when you kill her. There’s a wooden pole just in front and to the left of that doorway you can use for LoS until she gets close, then you can back up a bit (like 900 range or so) and she won’t get any closer. She’ll stay in that spot and you can just range each other all day long. The clones will despawn immediately and she won’t return to the center for dagger storm. You just need to do a side to side step to avoid her attacks, and dodge the scorpion wire.
I will never have a padawan cause I am in EU, people dont want help here
Sure they do, it’s just not always easily given.
If you’re still looking for an Arah Padawan, I’d be happy to pull off the ridiculous crop + braid Jedi hairstyle! Got a fully geared cleric guardian with ascendeds. Only done p3&4, but I would like to learn it well to be able to run it more often.
first teaching
clerics gear is a lie, there is only zerker
through zerker sou gain dps
through dps you gain experience
through experience your noob-chains are broken
Also should be pointed out, for people who don’t realize it (lunyboy), that the elite players put out guides like crazy. Poobutt bads don’t. So who’s a bigger help to the community?
food buffs and potions are extremely useful in dungeons.
whether or not you should use them depends on the difficulty of the dungeon, i guess. for example (anecdotally) in faceroll dungeons (i.e. cof, AC) i rarely see people with food buffs. in dungeons like arah i tend to see little less than 50% run with buffs. lastly, contrast that with lvl 48 fractals and i rarely see anyone without a food buff. if the content calls for it, chow down!
No, you will always be better with food. Always. And some of them give enough stats to be like a 7th piece of armor. Would you be ok with people who walking into your group without wearing boots? And when questioned, they said “eh it’s so easy, I don’t need them”.
Nobody needs food to simply complete the dungeon. Completing dungeons in this game can be done with 5 naked bearbows. However, to complete them with max efficiency and minimize time, you should use every available resource, including proper sigils and foods.
As Dolan is pointing out, not every gain is statistically significant, but food/potion usage is such as easy thing to “do right”, so why not do it?
perfect example of some little poobutt baddie coming in with a horrible baddie attitude, but WHOOPS he actual got a hand-holding perfect walkthrough of what he was asking about. alas, he continued to have a kittenstain baddie attitude about “elitists”
What’s the downside with using the Indestructible target golems in Heart of the Mists for controlled tests?
Crit stats are capped on the low side in PvP. Not to mention skills working differently due to splits.
Deks: Level 1 Bloomhunger might be a good choice, though ideally I’d rather not even have the chance of dropping below 90% HP. Is there a slaying sigil/potion?
Either approach is fine, actually so long as you remember that observable phenomenons always trump theory.
An example is economics where the current paradigm are microfoundations. Meaning, any macro theory you have is only considered valid if you can provide micro-level causes to explain the macro effect. Unfortunately, there are plenty of macro phenomena that we observe in reality that cannot be explained with micofoundations. What happens in those cases is, half the economists in the world say “that can’t happen” while the others say “…but it is happening.”
The difference is whether you use theory to describe how the world is versus to describe how the world ought to be. Once you venture into the ‘ought to be’ realm you set yourself (or whomever’s money you manage) up for literal disaster.
So in regards to guild wars 2, in an ideal situation you would measure kill times/clear times with the same players using different compositions and analyze the data to figure out why one composition was more or less effective than another.
In a full path clear with all 5 members contributing, there are just too many variables to approach a useful analysis. I mean, the difference between 5 bearbows versus an organized team the differences are clear, but the differences between a 5:24 clear with W/W/E/M/G and a 5:17 with W/R/Eng/M/T are too subtle to be dissected by that kind of 30,000 ft analysis. That’s why I’d like to home in on the individual contributions. Of course a 2% difference in clear time doesn’t really matter for casual runs but they do for records (not to mention this provide great data for pvt losers to get upset about).
From a design standpoint, Anet has a pretty clear history in this game of nerfing builds that go into a particular traitline for 10 points only just to snipe one uber trait. That was the philosophy behind their previous pve warrior nerfs, and it appears to be continuing here.
I think you underestimate what adding 750 power to your party did for dps. In a group that was Might capping, it was a 4-5% partywide buff, and an even bigger buff to less efficient groups. There are very few traits in the game with impact that big. Oddly enough, the next two biggest ones are Spotter and the trait for ranger spirits.
IMO if you wanted to “nerf” EA following their established design principles, they should have made it the Grandmaster trait for Arms. That way you’re forced to choose between Fast Hands or EA, which is a much more compelling choice than the current dilemma.
That I can get- it was a very powerful trait considering the cost of 10 points. But to the point of “slowing high end PvE teams down”, how much does it? Like, not at all. Seconds perhaps? After all, we can still take it if we really want to, sacrificing just a little bit of personal DPS for the team boost.
Two Engis, one elementalist and one warrior. Noone needs ranger buffs.
Simin is probably better than ooze, able to use rush/wa then.
It would be nice if contributions to this conversation carried a little more depth than “do what Dub says because he said so”.
You get perma fury, perma 25 vuln, perma 25 might and warrior buffs. Although this obviously has a downside: You have to count attacks in your combat log, add their damage up and devide it by time spent. Engis and eles are doing damage while grantling might/applying vuln.
But anyway: Isn’t it just enough to find an afk fight (simin) and then do the whole thing without any vuln/might/buffs? The relation stays about the same, counterside is that bleed becomes way stronger than norman and that some professions like warrior apply vuln.
Here’s why I don’t like Simin. To make the test not a pain in the kitten , you’ll have to bug her, and: 1) not everyone knows how to do it, 2) once knowledge of how to do it becomes more common, it’s extremely likely that it’ll get patched quickly 3) getting there in a reasonable amount of time requires really huge exploits, 4) see #2 again.
The coral at the Ooze will probably be patched eventually as well, but that’s been public for a long time and nothing yet has been done.
Also I think it’d be better to test builds out as close to actual conditions as possible without making the test difficult to set up. Hence, all buffs applied.
Oh they do care. You think Lung Capacity was traded for Empower Allies at random? Ofcourse not. Empower Allies was moved consciously because Anet wanted to slow down total team dps at the high end of the spectrum after giving everyone a 5% boost with Ascended gear. They sold the change as a “buff to support builds” but it is plainly obvious that it was less a buff to support as it was a nerf to direct damage.
And to be further blunt, it wasn’t pvt bowbear rangers with one warrior using no banners in the party who brought EA that made EA a balance issue, it was people like us pushing pve dps to levels that Anet didn’t invision when they designed their dungeons.
I disagree, I think they did it solely based on the preponderance of 30/10/30 builds. If they wanted to slow things down, they need to make MUCH bigger changes than taking away 150 power.
I guess it could be true that their intention was to slow down our groups but they’re just amazingly incompetent.
Anyway, I’m surprised the OP dismissed HotW so quickly.
In path 3 of HotW there is a champion so easy that the strategy for him has been “don’t bother” since release: The Champion Icebrood Goliath. His attacks are slow and incredibly low damage for their speed, meaning that nearly anyone in any gear setup can facetank him for incredible lengths of time. Certainly long enough to get an accurate baseline for DPS, even if he does have quite a lot of HP.
Though if the ooze is as good as you say, then there is only one advantage the Goliath provides, and that is being an Icebrood. You can use the Powerful Potion of Icebrood slaying to get a full 10% damage bonus (and 10% off of his attacks). Unfortunately it is still a day dungeon, though.
Thanks for the suggestion. I haven’t run p3 outside of getting the DM title so I honestly didn’t remember. That sounds like a good suggestion though, and the fact that it’s daytime is outweighed by being able to use slaying sigil and potion.
I would like to know the numbers too if you find some . Some people say that thief has highest single target DPS in organized groups . Even if i never been in the super mega zerk group i’m pretty sure it’s a lie . Because you can’t spam backstab over and over and the autoatack on daggers is garbage to And the sword.is too slow compared to warrior’s axe.
well with thief you don’t just spam backstab, it’s based on positioning (be behind them), and work backstab into your rotation. I believe above 50% target HP the proper rotation is C&D, backstab, then a full dagger auto chain, then just the FIRST hit of dagger auto, then C&D, etc. Below 50% I’m pretty sure it’s just heartseeker while above 6 initiative. Correct me if I’m wrong, pro-thieves.
Bringing up thief brings to mind a good point though, and a potential issue with the Ooze. Positioning is necessary to get proper benefit of DPS traits for both thief and ranger. Not sure how that can be overcome.
