I get what you are saying, but everything is relative. those every class berseker pug are “much worse” than the typical warrior/mesmer group.
Those typical all class group take like 10 minutes. So if you think those warrior group are bad etc etc…
I’ve never seen an “every class” group that’s all berserker. But you are correct, your typical “all class” group is even worse at CoF than the warriors. But I don’t think those warriors are going to do any better outside of CoF than the All Class Group.
Can you imagine what your average 4W/1M group who only does CoF is going to do on their first Arah P3?
I’d take CoF farming elitists over the Shout-Heal Warriors / Cleric’s Guardians / Condition Necros / GS Mesmers that I see in Arah every time I pug it. I’m tired of soloing Lupicus and getting kicked after I kill him because it took too long and I could have rezzed people. Please, send in the CoF farmers.
I used to say the exact same thing. Until I went and pugged CoF the other day, the first time I’d done it since February I think. Try it if you haven’t in a while, you’ll see what I mean.
The pug community farming CoF 1 as warrios/mesmer are not more experienced. They suck. If you’re doing hours of farming and you can’t beat 7 minutes in your run, you’re garbage. When these kiddies get tossed into other dungeons they’re gonna throw a fit, and their clear times are gonna be 30-60 minutes on anything else.
I did some pug CoF earlier, tried to join the strictest group I could find on LFG.
PUGs are still fricking awful at it. 8 minutes runs. They have no idea what to do beyond the basics. When these guys get booted out to other dungeons, they’re gonna have no clue. I used to think that pushing them to other dungeons would spread the “zerk = good” playstyle, but they’re gonna fold like crappy poker hand as soon as they step into anything harder than CoF, which is like, everything else.
So yeah, kittenty pugs are getting their ball taken away. Good dungeon groups who know how to run everything quickly will be rewarded. This is a step in the right direction.
If they only cost gold, I wouldn’t care. I just tossed my ranger’s MF gear into the toilet because why the kitten not. But Laurels aren’t gold, and if I’d known that they’d be worthless in 3 months I wouldn’t have bought the infusions.
They did give one gold per completion for the Aetherblade Retreat, so that kinda sets the bar, at least for the sake of discussion/speculation. I expect one gold to be the upper limit, reserved only for Arah p4 and other long paths like SE path 2, perhaps even TA F/U assuming the tree doesn’t revert to its former status. Of course I doubt they’ll use speedclear groups like DnT, SOLO, Define etc to set the bar, which means organized groups who can clear these dungeons half as fast as pug groups are finally going to get rewarded for their skill and effort.
Or, they could make the reward dynamic. Start rewarding 10 silver at 5 minutes and climb upwards like a reverse timer, capping out at 1G after an hour, something like that. If the reward is per account per day, there might be some optimal timing for completion. Say you get to the boss, it might be worth taking 5 for a smoke break then finishing out. Speculating is fun.
Didn’t you somewhere list it with 1,56 million? My feedback had 17 hits, 33k each. Thats 561k damage which is 35%. In an average group it would have mostlikely been 22k hits or less. So with lots of reflects (hitting max. 20) it would be about 30%.
1456820
minus 561,000 from feedback leaves 895,820 HP to drain from regular attacking over 21 seconds. Minus 5 seconds of invulnerability is 895,820/16 seconds or 55,988 per second from the party (increased damage from TW spread out for the average).
Yeah, throw an Engineer, Guardian, and Ranger in there instead of 4 warriors. They could definitely do better. /s
…
And no offense, but I really see it as a beginner mistake if you have banner out of range against a non-moving enemy.
Obal also hang around with in game idiots like me to record things only in game idiots can do. Tell you the truth that I spent more time to make my characters looks prettier than to find out how far the range of the banner would extend. Once in awhile, I made some posts to fool you guys into thinking that I know something about the game, but actually I’m pretty much a lemming. My brain runs in auto mode when I play GW2 and that’s awesome. A game to play w/o really thinking and pay attention to details. At the expense of some fancy silvers & coppers.
Would I put a banner again out of reach the next time? Guaranteed it will happen once in a while again, whether Obal invited me for the next run or not. But I guaranteed you this. If GW2 shows me a way I could made $75/hr (I might or might not make that much $/hr in real life), I would pay extremely more attention to those little things.
So relax Weth, don’t get hang up on those little small things. We all know you are expert in this game and having a group of experts to record things as perfect as it could be. I’m just happy to pay more attention at something else at the expense of being called newbie in GW2.
Edited: I’m the prettiest blondie warrior in the recording. I don’t think she died once this time.
Oh this had me rolling at work, man.
And if people are worrying about unnecessary dodges, I hope they never watch me in Obal’s videos. I’m all over the place…
Glad I didn’t stock up on Omnoms and Laureate boosters, though I do have one so I guess I’ll throw one last farewell hour of 90% gold find…
But yeah, pretty good decision overall, and it’s not so bad since we can just run something like CoE 1/2/3 CoF 1/2 Arah 3 nightly. I do hope pugs take the lessons of CoF to other dungeons (zerk über alles) and not just fold up like a tissue cause they don’t know how to speed run anything not path 1.
P.S. The kittening sour grapes on some forums (cough cough reddit) are legendary.
Actually Laurent might be a more interesting speed kill since he doesn’t kill himself with feedback and you have to avoid a lot of annoying knockdown attacks. Others that might be interesting and can’t be done in a single time warp:
PVT is cool only after playing berzerker all the time. You can afford dancing around, making mistake here & there and let your friends doing all the hard works, and rez them at the right time. And last one standing too. Just don’t let they know you wear PVT so transmute all your gears to CoF gears. Ugly but safe.
THAT’S why I’m always faceplanting in our fractal runs, you guys all switched to PVT and didn’t tell me
When I used to run pvt I thought it was so good.. never tried anything else.. then one day I dunno maybe I was crazy or something, I put on a knights set and was like.. Oh.. How awkward, I actually survived better in it.. then I was like kitten this full zerks and it worked O_O
That’s exactly the journey I took on my guardian. If only I could get those first 400 or so hours of PVT-running back, they gave me such bad habits
Didn’t you somewhere list it with 1,56 million? My feedback had 17 hits, 33k each. Thats 561k damage which is 35%. In an average group it would have mostlikely been 22k hits or less. So with lots of reflects (hitting max. 20) it would be about 30%.
Oh so 35% is perfectly fine for what was intended to be an endgame boss to shoot itself for because a reflect bubble was up?
How about they reduce the number of projectiles he does by, say half? So SOLO and other groups can’t bypass phase 2 and 3 anymore. They’ll still kill him in under 60 seconds, but this change won’t make the fight even harder for non-hardcore groups. In fact it’ll be easier for the general populace, but harder for record-setters. Win-win for all of you so offended by the fact that 4 guilds can clear him this quickly.
How about we just nerf the damage output of anybody who has participated in a sub-45 second Lupicus kill? They’re the only ones doing it. I don’t see why 99.9% of the game population has to be impacted because of the shenanigans of like 40 people.
“Warrior, ranger, guardian, engineer, mesmer. Boom, maxed on everything, both offensive and defense.”
And while 5 warriors would have already got the dungeon completion reward, your engineer, ranger and mesmer are still running to the first boss.
Nice theory you do, sadly nothing close to praxis :/
Lupicus is one of the few fights where burst is not everything that matters (10 seconds phase 1 – a whole warrior rotation) and still any setup but 4w1m wouldn’t come close to as good times. You might replace one warrior but nothing else.
why are they adding new fractals when they need to fix the old ones first
Why assume they are not fixing the others before/at the same time as they add the new ones?
Because no dev posts in this sub forum for like 7 months. Outside of Jeff Vaughn saying they’ll fix the chanter respawning on Cliffside eventually. Wanna bet whether or not that’s actually getting into the next patch?
According to Colin in the live stream (and probably upcoming blog post), they’ll add the one that wins the vote as well as Molten Facility and Aetherblade Retreat. That’s kinda cool I guess, three new fractals at once isn’t bad. Really hope they get around to fixing the other problems we all mentioned, though.
Actually, it won’t make a small dent of how these extreme skilled players will play. They will publish another videos showing how to kill Lupi the fastest w/o reflection then they go their own way. Those would hurt a lot are precisely those morons asking for the nerf and the populace mass because the current manageable content would be raised to a higher threshold.
You’re right of course! They’ll just put out new videos with the fastest times, with the title “POST-FEEDBACK NERF RECORD”.
I haven’t actually done that since I’ve only gotten 3 skins. Good to know I can get something out of them if I ever get the point where some of you folks are (5 tridents, 4 torches, etc).
According to some .dat mining, at one point Anet was considering having the upcoming Kiel/Gnashblade election give us either a fractalized Molten Facility or Aetherblade retreat added to the FOTM rotations.
It seems these plans have changed, and now we’re getting either something about Abaddon’s fall or the Thaumanova meltdown.
I really wish they’d hold off those changes until the underlying problems with Fractals are fixed. Of course two more new ones would make Dredge and Cliffside less likely to appear, but it’d be nice if the problems with those two were fixed. Also, the RNG for rings and fractal weapon skins is still horrible. We need something better to do with useless rings than vendoring them for 5 silver, and we need something better to do with useless skins than Right Click…Destroy. I’ll be marginally more attracted to running fractals with two new ones to check out, but as soon as I get a daily chest with naught but relics and bags of loot (or maybe even worse, another Lost Seal of Usoku), I’ll probably barf.
-shouts from the warrior don’t heal for kitten
-AH procs are small but there’s a ton of them. Empowering Might is 5 ticks every proc. Virtues and Shouts do multiple since they give multiple boons. with hammer the symbol gives off a ton. Swap to staff for Empower and it’s a heal on par with Signet.
-lots of enemies do prioritize low HP/high toughness, which makes the Guardian more suitable for an aggro magnet
-what you lose in group damage output from a Guardian going AH instead of DPS isn’t as huge as the loss of a warrior going from DPS to shout heal/toughness build. There should only be one AH guard though, and really only in fractal 48. Elsewhere it’s not needed at all.
It’s not just Feedback that’s doing that, it’s using Feedback in a very specific way with very specific conditions. I bring Feedback to Lupi fights and I don’t do that much damage with it. Last time I did about 20K per reflect, but since my whole team wasn’t under the bubble I only got about 8 hits in with it.
When was the last time a PUG even melee’d Lupi? And if they did, when was the last time one got it done in under a minute? Again, this is something that less than 100 players can do reliably. If this tactic were spread out amongst the general populace and it was basically required by the community going on Arah runs, I could understand. Fixing the TA leaf standing exploit was necessary because EVERY pug group was doing it. Fixing the CoF/2 gate skip is going to happened because EVERY pug group wants to do it. Same with CoE 3-in-1.
There are no pugs doing this to Lupi. It’s a handful of guilds competing for bragging rights. Changing this doesn’t change the game for anyone but those groups.
Again, a Feedback nerf changes nothing about the state of the meta game. It’s a direct boot to the face of the dozen or so speedclear groups than can do this, that’s it. PUGs are not using it like this. Pugs can’t do this. Pugs barely even run Arah.
Nerf feedback or change Lupi’s attack and you might as well call this the [SOLO] Nerf. You’re calling for a change to a skill or boss because of one gimmick that maybe 50 people can pull off, that leads to no real in-game advancement. Arah is not CoF. There’s no reward other than bragging rights for doing this (not to diminish the achievement, I think it’s awesome).
There’s just no reason to freak out over Feedback or Lupi because of this.
Why the huge jump in speed between earlier this year and now? A few months ago the record kills were only incrementally improved, but you guys just cut it in half in like…3 weeks.
That’s actually how it works half the time. Half the time records are broken by refinement and execution (gradual improvements) and the other half they are shattered in big fashion (innovative new strategy.)
Yeah that’s exactly what I mean, what is allowing the previous plateau (~40 seconds) to be shattered the way it has been. I mean, there’s the time warp in phase 1 and mesmer pumping feedback as high as it can go, which I don’t remember seeing previously. Is that basically the linchpin to the sub-30 second kills?
Why the huge jump in speed between earlier this year and now? A few months ago the record kills were only incrementally improved, but you guys just cut it in half in like…3 weeks.
It isnt about whethet ranger is better in a party than a warrior (it isnt) its about whether a ranger is better than having a THIRD warrior, which it very well may be in some instances.
Let’s not confuse DnT’s claims (grounded in reality, supported by empirical evidence) with these claims (conceived in La La Land, the ravings of a lunatic, grounds for forcible confinement in a sanitarium):
@Winston My claim isn’t that “Brasil has proved that Rangers > Warriors”. My claim is that he(they) proved that Ranger’s aren’t as trash tier as was once believed.
And I completely agree with that? That’s not Guang’s claim though, that’s Brazil’s. So good job on Brazil for:
-making a claim
-providing verifiable empirical evidence
Something that some people haven’t figured out how to do.
all I’m saying is that I haven’t had the invulnerable problem since I started running fractals with a good team that runs in and melees with reflects and stability up. V V
His claim was that a Ranger does more DPS than a Warrior. His team build had one Ranger in it. You’re exaggerating his claim(s) to make them look foolish because you (and others) can’t accept that he had valid points after trolling him.
Brasil and DnT have presented what a Ranger can do, yet you and others continue to ignore it and act like they’re trash with arguments like “oh.. but… PUG rangers aren’t good!”. Look at what’s been presented, stop being blinded by hatred for the class.
You should re-read the thread and my posts. I’ve admitted that Rangers aren’t as deficient in the damage category as I thought, and I believe it’s possible to improve a M/G/3W team’s speedrun time by swapping one warrior for one ranger.
The claims of “Ranger DPS > Warrior DPS” so far have yet to be proven with empirical evidence, and the only supporter of this claim has only Excel Wars 2 data.
If Rangers have better DPS than warriors than a full ranger group will be faster than a full warrior group. This is demonstrably not the case.
