Guild Wars 2

Disclaimer: I don’t spend a huge amount of time on the Guardian forums so maybe something like this has been posted before. However I did not take this concept from any other Burn Guard build.

Recently I had been growing bored with Meditation Guard and wanted to try something different. I thought that I haven’t seen a ton of Burn Guards around and decided to aim for that. It took a ton of trial and error but I finally ended up with this:

Amplified Flames

The issue I had always seen with Burn Guards before was keeping the burning up consistently against classes with high condi removal. That can still be an issue but if you learn to spread your burns out even Necros, Eles, and Warriors won’t have enough removal to deal with your flames.

I like to start out with Scepter/Focus out because it’s a ranged weapon and its initial combo can force a lot of countermeasures early into the fight. The general combo is as follows:

Chains of Light -> Ray of Judgement -> Smite

Or if you are pro and can predict where they’re going you can go with Smite first. Due to Focus master Chains and Ray have the same CD which is really useful. Smite hits so many times that it can trigger Virtue of Justice multiple times, and with all the + duration it actually lasts 2 seconds for each passive pop.

After the blinds have wore off pop your Shield of Wrath. When they hit this they are applying burn to themselves via Defender’s Flame. This trait required sacrificing Fury on your Meditation use but really goes a long way to keeping the burn on. Your blocks also give you might which means your burn tics can exceed 900.

Your next combo is obvious which is why you start with Scepter first. While your shield is still up Swap to GS and go:

Binding Blade -> Judge’s Intervention halfway through the animation -> Pull -> Purging Flames -> Whirling Wrath -> Leap of Faith

This is where you have to use your knowledge of what build they’re using. If they’re using a more condi heavy build you may want to wait to do this combo until you actually have conditions on you to make the most out of Purging Flames. When you do use it, the combination of the fire field and Whirling Wrath will apply a TON of burn duration and the Leap will give you a Fire Shield, making any more hits you take apply burning.

If your opponent appears to have a lot of condi removal try to bait out as much of it as you can before using the big combo. beware of Warrior’s Berserker Stance although because so few guards run such high damage burns they generally wait too long before activating. If they’re removal is outstripping your duration between your big GS combo don’t be afraid to pop your Virtue of Justice which is an 8 second burn. Towards the end of close fights I find myself using all virtues, poping Renewed Focus and then using Justice again just to insure they have no time to recover.

OIOIOIOIOIOIOIOI……!

Why is Skullcracker not on your War builds list >:^(.

Just messing with ya, I’m glad we finally have a site like this because we did in GW1 but not so much for 2.

Soilder.3607:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNAnYVjEq0ua9KmrQ1aADhqdLkBlA7AICmAXx7FrsSF-TJxCwAAeCAC3fYypAYbZAA

This should do you well. A lot of things can be changed about the trapper build as there isn’t a standard, so play around with whatever you want.

Thank you, I’ll try it out.

cheese.4739:

BurrTheKing.8571:

You know what can be done about turrets? You could run one of the many that counters it including but not limited to:

• Staff Ele
• Skullcracker
• MM
• Power Necro
• Trap Ranger

You get the point.

People complain when the meta gets stale and then when something new comes around everyone wants it nerfed.

For an Engineer who plonks all their turrets on the point, sure – but they’re usually either new to the build and trying to hold a point alone, or they’re joining the big teamfights and using their turrets’ CC to knock back anyone without perma-stability.

AoE dps doesn’t mean anything when the Engineer can spread out their AI and keep it spread out – at least an MM Necro’s pets can be pulled (and critted*). Each turret takes a significant number of hits to take down (with reduced damage on top of the no-crits) and so the Engineer has time to prepare and time to get some allies back to help defend. Without a lot of stability and reflects, there’s no reasonable way for someone to effectively take out a smart Engi’s turrets.

• Some people who defend turrets say “they can’t be crit, no, but [b]they can’t get crits on enemies either[/i]…”
  What’s the crit chance for other AI attacks, besides the profession-defining Mesmer and Ranger ones?
  If you compare the increase in dps a Necro’s Minion gets from its crits (particularly with all that Fury and Might that their master shares), is it really that much compared to the crit-less Engi turrets that can be more effectively placed than most minions (greatly increasing their survivability), and can’t be crit themselves?

Sure, the turrets don’t proc on-crit sigil effects for their master – oh wait, minions don’t either. Minions can, however, have on-crit effects procced on them, like Fire and Air – which turrets are immune to.

Yeah I have some special feelings about turrets.

You can also just tell your team “if there’s turrets, focus them down.” Also, Skullcracker if able to take the engi out really quickly. I’d rather we NOT nerf something that was garbage since launch just as soon as it becomes useable.

Also, Meteor Shower covers the whole point and then some. If nothing else you bought time to focus on them while the other team is trying to focus on not dying.

Hey there. I’ve recently started trying to play my Ranger in PvP but as someone who has played Warrior, Guardian, and Engi I’ve been finding Ranger to be lacking. Traps seem like the most solid option but I’m not familiar enough with the class yet to be making my own builds yet.

All of the builds I’ve found floating around are outdated so I wanted to come here and find something that’s more up-to-date.

You know what can be done about turrets? You could run one of the many that counters it including but not limited to:

• Staff Ele
• Skullcracker
• MM
• Power Necro
• Trap Ranger

You get the point.

People complain when the meta gets stale and then when something new comes around everyone wants it nerfed.

Dagins.5163:

Alternatively, you could pick axe off hand instead of shield, and use whirling axe on a stunned enemy. This way, you don’t have to swap weapons for hundred blades, and maybe pick another secondary weapon set.

The damage from that is not only much less, you lose the reflect from the shield AND the CD on Whirling Axe is too long to capitalize on it consistently.

Also, I gotta laugh at someone calling Skullcracker cheese…or even turrets. Do you know what that term even MEANS!? Cheese typically describes a tactic that is high risk but has a chance for an easy win but if your initial push fails you’re screwed. If you miss your first SC you still have blocks and an evade to stay on point until you can try again. If you lose your Turrets you still have your toolbelt skills and your main weapon combo and generally you can last until you at least get one turret out. Neither build is like that. Both are solid vs certain builds but are very weak to others. Skullcracker sucks against a Necro that has tons of Chill and pretty much any Mesmer build with teleport.

What makes it a strong choice vs other options is that it leaves little chance for them to retaliate where other CC builds leave gaps where the Engi can hit you with an OC Shot. You can take the Engi out in under 20 seconds if you connect with everything and interrupt their heal.

As both a Warrior and an Engi character I both dislike losing to Turrets but at the same time Engis waited years for them to finally be worth using. Some of you have seen the Skullcracker build for a while but it fell out of favor due to Hambow. However Hambow isn’t all that great against turrets…but another Warrior build is:

Skullcracker

This is a slightly different version from past iterations and it is very customizable. Because of your reflect and your long stun in addition to Turret Engis only having 1 stun breaker that they have to pop their Thumper Turret to use it means they’re not going to be able to do anything about you huge stun duration. If you find yourself not having enough Stability swap out Bull’s Charge for Dolyak. It makes SC harder to land but it’s still doable. If you’re a wuss and want more sustain take 2 points from Arms and put them into Defense for Defy pain. Your average Turret Engi will go down in 2 bursts 1v1 and maybe 1 if your team focuses.

I don’t want Turrets nerfed after they finally have a use so I’m simply going to run a counter to them rather than crying about them killing me. Watch out for condi spam, don’t be afraid to use GS burst for cleanse if SC misses.

Cufufalating.8479:

Maybe it’s just too many years playing trap builds and thus always having the Skimishing Traitline (and now always using Sigils of Battle), but I just really like the idea of getting buffs / effects on weapon swap. It really promotes more engaging fights rather than just chilling back at 1000+ range with the LB getting free vulnerability for nothing (and it really is for nothing, because if you have a LB you WILL have the MS traitline and thus will always have all 3 minor traits, so its not even like you’re choosing to take the traits).

To me, that just sounds bad. People should not be rewarded for doing nothing but standing at the back with a LB pressing 1, they should get more out if they are really engaging in combat actively, IMO.

It also helps from a counterplay perspective as well because you know what’s coming when they swap weapons so it’s up to you to make sure you dodge, which with Hunter’s Strike makes it more challenging but you know how long they’re going to be stealthed. It theoretically makes it fun to play AND fun to play against.

Orpheal.8263:

Warrior Mobility needs to get nerfed absolutely.
By the description self Anet says, that Warriors are good at SPEED, this means, they are quick attackers, but not fast and nimble in their movements.

Thats absolutely speaking totally against everythign for what a warrior is standing for and everybody who says anything different here is a blinded warrior fanboy who simply doesn’t want to accept the truth!
——

What needs to get done with Warrior to nerf their mobility, without nerfing it to death.
The answer is simple:

1) Remove that 25% Movement Speed Trait and change it into a Signet Passive from Signet of Stamina
The old passive effect of Signet of Stamina gets reworked into its active effect.
Instead of curing all conditions, that Signet should only cure Poison, Cripple, Weakness, and Vulnerability and regenerate endurance half back to full.

2) Exchange the GS Skill Spots of Bladetrail and Whirlwind Attack, so that Bladetrail will be the attack on spot 3 with 10 Cooldown Time and Whirlwind Attack being on spot 4 with 15 seconds of Cooldown Time

3) Move the Master Trait Mobile Strikes into the Grandmaster Category and move therefore the Trait Brawler’s Recovery into the Master Trait Category

4) Change Rush into a Skill, which can be only activated, if you have an enemy target, so that it can be used only to engage quickly into a fight to get fast into melee combat range, what is the REAL sense behind of this skill as a friggin GAP CLOSER!!!! its not a Gap Opener >.>!!!
—-
With these 4 changes, warriors would be far more balanced in regard of mobility and at the place, where they should be as one of the more slower classes, but therefore most tanky, most healthy and powerful classes on the other hand with more mobility, than guardians, but overall same as slow as them, unless you actually sacrifice some serious power or toughness for your extra mobility optimization through Mobile Strikes and permanent faster movement +25%, if you don’t want to use Runes of the Traveler, like Engineers or Guardians have to do also, if they want to run permanently 25% faster.

With these 4 changes, you would turn Warrior into a joke that would easily be kited to death by even the most amateur of players. It makes ZERO sense to severely kitten the gap-closing capabilities of a MELEE class because some players are sad that they don’t get a loot bad in WvW. This “resetting the fight” argument is garbage as well seeing as Thieves and even Mesmers can all but reset the fight via stealth but can remain in the immediate area while doing it. When a Warrior runs, you can clearly see it. Simply head the other way until you exit combat and ta-da it’s like the fight never happened.

Off the top of the head the following classes can easily ’reset a fight" in WvW if designed to do so:

• Thieves
• Rangers
• Mesmers (Not as good as the others but still very possible with Mass Invis and teleports)
• Warriors
• Engi (Rocket Boots)
• Ele (can’t do it as well as before but it’s not hard to use RTL on a rabbit)

Another thing, bringing a GS in WvW helps you run away but in a zerg fight it brings very little. Bring a Hammer with you and that’s a bit better but then you have no sword/warhorn to help speed along your group and are more vulnerable to conditions. Taking a Sword/Warhorn with Hammer makes you very much catchable.

Warrior mobility is not a problem in WvW and it’s been proven that the classes are balanced around PvP (makes sense considering the amount of randomness present in WvW). Making sweeping changes like this needlessly nerfs Warrior and ANet will not make weapon skill CD changes and trait moves in just one area of the game.

Taking Warrior’s Sprint and Mobile Strikes means that you did not take the CD reduction for Signets which means you have less uptime on Fury which means unless you’re running Opportunist and a weapon set heavy on immobs (which again means more sacrifices) then your overall DPS is much lower. Making a skill REQUIRE a target is not only a huge step backwards into the WoW style of MMO but would also change nothing in terms of running away because you can simply target a mob in the direction you want to run and ta-da same as ever. Being able to use Rush as a way to create distance is the best way to beat certain builds like D/P Thieves because they’ll either have to spend more initiative or a utility to get there in 3 seconds or they have to start the combo all over again. The main strength of this game is how free the combat feels and you’re suggesting to limit that.

Durzlla.6295:

Tbh I’d much prefer that it triggers off a # of hits than on the weapon swap, you’d still have control over it, and it wouldn’t force you to swap weapons to take advantage of it (which is a bonus on its own).

But with it being after a certain # of hits you really aren’t “in control.” If you’re trying to run DPS you want to be keeping up constant pressure which means you’re going to be doing a ton of 1s in between combos. This means Opening Strike may end up triggering before Rapid Fire is off CD which means your DPS isn’t being optimized.

With on swap + unblockable you KNOW that when you swap you’re going to be applying that Vulnerability so it makes combos like Hunter’s Shot -> Hilt Bash from Behind -> Maul much stronger. Throw in a pet attack for even more stacks and with Moment of Clarity if Hilt Bash interrupts something that’s 150% extra damage of Maul.

I’m still new to the class but I feel that would make builds like this or this stronger than they currently are.

I really like the idea of that first build because the focus on interrupts reminds me of GW1 Ranger.

selan.8354:

BurrTheKing.8571:

selan.8354:

Harper.4173:

Sadly there’s a dichotomy when it comes to passive play in this game : anything that’s not warrior passive play is alright.
Warrior passive sustain, or traits, or anything is bad.

But mesmers having phantasms doing all the work or engis spamming turrets is considered ok.

Sad but true.

im a mes.
trust me if i could,id spec into not using ai at all, i would do that in a heartbeat.ive always tried to spec for less ai, but unfortunately is a bad class design. i wish mes could like necro have the choice of using minions/phantasms and was not so dependant on it. ai should be reduced i agree and honestly a light armor class like mes should not be a petspam clss anyways. too many bugs with it and absolutely horrendoous in wvw raids.

I played Mes a good amount in GW1 and boy does the class design in GW2 annoy me. It was a class about have Hexes to put the hurt on one type of playstyle or using interrupts to make casters cry.

In GW2 pretty much every build is reliant on AI and it makes it so much less interesting. They could have made the Phantasms appear for 1 attack and then disappear and give them a shorted CD. The whole clone system in general could have been about timing your skills so that they get hit instead of you but don’t linger around. Of course, this would mean that the whole class mechanic would have had to be different but I just feel that there’s a way to make illusion/disruption based class that is supposed to be “confusing” to fight without being simply annoying. Not being reliant on clones would also mean that they could have more worth in PvP because their main mechanic isn’t constantly getting destroyed by AoE.

so much agree with u. gw1 mes was amazing in teamsupport and great at aoe and actually a pain to face for sure. they were the ultimate punishing class. we had this a little bit going in gw2 during glamour time, but anet decided to nerf this core mechanic to the ground which left us with ai only builds…i just wish we could have the role of punishing class back again. give us aoe back, make us viabale in wvw again and stop with the pet ai stuff. we are not rangers nor are we ganking thieves, we are a light armor class that used to be amazing in gw1 and seems more like a shadow of what we were supposed to be.
id say, enough with the ai! get rid of it!

The class is still strong 1v1 like in GW1 but for all the wrong reasons. I don’t feel like I’m losing to a well placed Empathy and having my big attacks interrupted, I feel like I’m being spammed to death and it’s not like I can’t instantly tell which mes is the real one so it’s not “confusing” at all.

Of course, then I throw on a LB on my War and watch all the clones explode as soon as they make them and it trivializes the fight. So it’s either a annoying visual cluster or a massive joke. I don’t think I’ve ever had a fight vs a mes that I’ve enjoyed. In GW1 it was certainly annoying as well but you saw them the whole time and it was about waiting for the right time to strike or striking just enough to put them on the back foot while not killing yourself in the process.

I like the unblockable idea, but making it reapply after X amount of time or attacks doesn’t really fit the name. Maybe have it be applied on weapon swap as well as when you begin combat so for a LB/GS build you’re making Maul much more reliable as it’s now unblockable as well. Depending on how effective that is you might have to add a ICD but that would still means you can get the Vuln stacks you need early in the fight while still having decent access for prolonged engagements.

Having it be on swap also means the name still makes sense because it’s the “Opening Strike” of that weapon.

Blix.8021:

xbutcherx.3861:

MasterMc.7543:

xbutcherx.3861:

MasterMc.7543:

Wethospu.6437:

MasterMc.7543:

Harper.4173:

Greatsword hits? should be an instsakill.
Rifle shots? Instakill.

snip…

Just going to go ahead and leave this image here, rifle can already instakill.

575 damage is hardly an instakill.

You might want to go ahead and relook at that image, the damage i was showing was 17.2k. which is an instakill on most classes.

Let me guess 17.5k kill shot to what? uplevel on green armor going all zerker?

Celestial Ele, half exotic half ascended. So ya that warrior skill is a little op.

Not even with full zerker, 25 stacks of might can’t do 17.5k damage on a Celestial Ele.
Nice try tho..

Yeah, you could. Full ascended celestial light armor and accessories with no points in the armor trait tree is only about 2400 armor.

A 30/10/0/0/30 warrior can have the following damage bonuses
+15% from berserkers power
+3 % from stick and move
+10% from forceful greatsword (switch to your gs before the bullet from kill shot hits to get the bonus)
+7% from burst mastery
+3*x% from destruction of the empowered
+1*x% from each stack of vulnerability
+5% from sigil of of force (or +10% if you have another weapon with sigil of night to use at nighttime)
+10% from scholar runes

17.2k is on the high end, but it’s definitely doable with might on the warrior and vulnerability and boons (not protection) on the ele.

And that build crumbles to condis worse than a Engi to a Necro. Also, Forceful GS is a master trait so you can’t have that.

My issue with Thieves as someone who played GW1 is that the class deals it’s damage in a much simpler way in GW2. In the original game the Assassin had to use a chain of attacks that follow a certain order or meet certain prerequisites to deal high damage. Maybe your combo started with you knowing them down, which let you deal extra damage on a certain attack while they were on their back, this attack applied a certain condition that let you deal bonus damage on the attack that was just opened up. That’s a real dumbed down version but the point is that you used a variety of skills in order to lay down the hurt, you didn’t use the same mini combo over and over again and 1 attack wasn’t the main source of damage (backstab). Your damage came from ALL of your attacks. In GW2 something fairly close to this would be Meditation Guardian. For the most part their damage comes from using the majority of the attacks on their bar. Whenever I try playing my Thief the damage comes from maybe 3 attacks while the other skills are situational or maybe hardly touched at all. The second weapon (usually Shortbow) feels more like utility you use to buy time or run. You don’t see a ton of combos that require the use of both weapon sets to deal damage (like using Bull’s Charge or Shield Bash to set up Skull Crack then switching to GS to use 100b and Whirlwind Attack).

The class doesn’t feel faithful to its roots at all. Do your full combo in GW1 and you’re rewarded with a quick kill. Miss any of those attacks and you’re screwed and have to wait for another chance (or you died). In GW2 it feels like try the short combo, either kill your target and if you miss then just retreat and try again in a few seconds. I think the whole initiative system was poorly implemented and I would of rather seen the chain system from GW1 where you use both weapon sets for combos.

The old system also meant that spiking a target with 2 Sins would probably lead to them getting in each other’s way, making it possible for the victim to at least have some chance of reacting (this is more about WvW since you don’t often see more than 1 Thief in a TPvP game and who cares about hotjoins).

selan.8354:

Harper.4173:

Sadly there’s a dichotomy when it comes to passive play in this game : anything that’s not warrior passive play is alright.
Warrior passive sustain, or traits, or anything is bad.

But mesmers having phantasms doing all the work or engis spamming turrets is considered ok.

Sad but true.

im a mes.
trust me if i could,id spec into not using ai at all, i would do that in a heartbeat.ive always tried to spec for less ai, but unfortunately is a bad class design. i wish mes could like necro have the choice of using minions/phantasms and was not so dependant on it. ai should be reduced i agree and honestly a light armor class like mes should not be a petspam clss anyways. too many bugs with it and absolutely horrendoous in wvw raids.

I played Mes a good amount in GW1 and boy does the class design in GW2 annoy me. It was a class about have Hexes to put the hurt on one type of playstyle or using interrupts to make casters cry.

In GW2 pretty much every build is reliant on AI and it makes it so much less interesting. They could have made the Phantasms appear for 1 attack and then disappear and give them a shorted CD. The whole clone system in general could have been about timing your skills so that they get hit instead of you but don’t linger around. Of course, this would mean that the whole class mechanic would have had to be different but I just feel that there’s a way to make illusion/disruption based class that is supposed to be “confusing” to fight without being simply annoying. Not being reliant on clones would also mean that they could have more worth in PvP because their main mechanic isn’t constantly getting destroyed by AoE.

bigmonto.4215:

I play a thief as well, I know full well their mobility. And yes I can catch up to a warior with dagger 2, and yes you need to use up initiative, and possibly utility. But warrior need to used up cooldowns, and traits as well.

Also there are quiet a few ways for a theft to gain perma swiftness (centaur for example), and lets not forget “Fleet Shadow” and “expeditious dodger”.

All these are not even talking about stealth.

I hope you are not trying to argue warrior can get away better than thief.

But you guys have to remember, without active heal, the only option is for the warrior to run. This is probably why you see a warrior running so often. 5 sec into fight I got nuked with 1/3 health left, of course I will pop my stance and run, it is not like I can hit a button and heal back up.

About the Thief escape capability, it boggles the mind that people are complaining about Warrior’s escape capability when Thief can do it so much better. When a Warrior disengages you see where they are going. You have the option to turn and go the other way and if they try to reengage it’s like the fight never happened. When a Thief wants to disengage they chain stealth. While stealthed they can heal up and prepare while other classes don’t have that luxury. A well-played Axe Warrior can beat most Thief builds but when it comes to the ability to disengage there’s no competition, Thief is better.

I honestly don’t have that much against Turrets tbh. They feel less like AI and more like…well…turrets. If an enemy is running turrets just quickly focus them down and for the next minute the Engi is all but worthless. The build give Staff Ele even more purpose than it already had. Staff is not the only way to beat them, a Mace/Shield + GS Warrior with Dolyak and Balanced Stance with Missile Deflect can avoid being killed by the turrets and also totally lock down the Engi because when Thumper is out they have no stun breaks. They can also reflect Overcharged Shot which sends the Engi flying back a huge distance, leaving more time to decap and kill the turrets.

dancingmonkey.4902:

bigmonto.4215:

You do realized that you just proved my point, right?

This is the typical response from this forum…. hmm warrior got a lot of versatility, but few others has it…… wouldn’t it be better in the long run if everyone has it? Nah, let kill the warrior class instead, so no one has any options.

Actually, posters are just following the devs statements of avoiding the power creep. They have very specifically stated that they will weaken a profession long before they will beef up others.

Versatility =/= Power Creep

The whole point of this game not having a set trinity is so what class you choose decides the flavor of how you do something. Playing one class doesn’t necessarily mean you HAVE to fill a certain role. Sure some classes are better at some things than other classes, but there are many roles that can be filled equally well by multiple classes.

• Most classes have some sort of Power-Based DPS build

• Many classes can run a condition build

• Around half can play some sort of bunker even if Guardian is the best at mid bunk. Those other classes however can gain either greater control or better offensive power making them good home bunkers

• Almost all classes can run some sort of support whether it be shouts that heal and remove conditions or stealing boons and giving them to allies

Warrior falls into most of those categories but never all in one build. The problem is that there are several classes that severely lack that versatility. Warrior is the most well-designed of all the professions if you ask me. No matter what you want to do chances are there’s a build for it. It may not be the BEST option but chances are there’s still a place for it somewhere in the game. A Guardian is going to have more sustain but a Warrior can give some sustain in addition to a ton of control and condi removal. A Necro or Engi will provide better AoE conditions but a Warrior can focus down one target with tons of bleeds (and then cry when they meet a DS Ele).

You can see this design philosophy with pretty much all the classes, it’s just that some are too weak to bother using. Rather than tearing one class down I think most Non-Warrior players would rather see themselves get more options.

I also find those saying “I can beat Warriors easily (this is an attempt to avoid being told to l2p) but they should totally nerf XYZ because it’s OP” to be pretty funny.

Another thing I’ve been saying for a while. Most of the time when something in this game appears to be OP it’s due to the design of the game mode itself and not the class in question. High sustain and AoE are always going to be strong when PvP is designed around fighting on tiny circles and one person can deny a cap. Stacking food and other buffs that give flat increases are always going to be strong on classes that already have high base access whatever it is the buff is improving.

I’ve been messing around with this and I’m seeing some good initial success.

Use Elixir B then (optional to Throw Elixir S) you Throw Elixir B and go Blunderbuss + Overcharged + Jump + Flame Blast and you can really rock a good number of builds. If you don’t insta-gib you’ve probably put them on the defensive. I still want FT 1 to be buffed so that there’s a reason for me to use it instead of rifle 1 in between bursts. The animation on the jet is awesome but deals hardly any damage. It would also make the +toughness from Jugg more useful.

I’ve been using FT in a Power build recently and have been seeing decent success. This is the setup I use. The burst you can do by stacking might then doing the rifle combo followed by a point blank Flam Blast can insta-kill foes that are caught unaware, which is facilitated by the Throw Elixir S.

But it really disappoints me that I don’t get to use the awesome looking 1 skill. If I’m using a Flamethrower I want to be constantly barraging my foes with a stream of flame, not just for a ball of fire, a push, and a (admittedly) useful blind while stomping. I want the FT to be my primary weapon in this build, not the rifle.

With the decline of D/P Thieves I’m encountering less and less blind. A few Ele builds have it and Meditation Guards as well, but as for Thieves most are evade/teleport spam now. It’s still annoying to have most of our “new” traits be worthless.

I don’t disagree with some of you. The fact is though that ANet has a history of giving in to these few people who are very vocal. If ANet is going to nerf Warrior mobility, then at least we can make the skill function how it should have in the first place and have it encourage using it as a gap closer and only being “eh” at running away.

(This post is mostly copy/pasted from another Thread but I feel it deserves its on post for visibility)

I keep seeing references to Warrior mobility being too strong. My question to these people is, how would you nerf this without dumbing down the game or making Warriors unable to close the gap?

Say you make skills like Rush and Savage Leap require a target. That to me seems like a major step back in terms of MMO design. Requiring a target to do an attack seems so archaic. Having more freedom of movement is one of the strongest parts of this game. I can’t touch other MMOs that require targets because of this system. Also, since this mobility issue is only really an “issue” in WvW do you think requiring a target would actually change anything? With skills that teleport it makes sense for it to require a target but less so with leaps/running. Here’s what would happen, the Warrior would target an ambient mob or any other mob and use the skill. If they get close enough to hit they’ll cancel the attack via weapon swap or sheathing the weapon. Basically, nothing will change.

If you give Rush/SL the Ride the Lightning treatment do you think that would really change anything? You’ll have the same situation as above where they’ll just target a white or yellow mob that are almost everywhere in WvW. If you did want to encourage these skills for only gap closing then maybe you could up the CD on Rush and have it be halved if it hits something. TO do that and be fair though ANet would HAVE to change the skill so that it more reliably connects with the target.

Reducing the distance also poses problems. Sure, this would make using them for running harder, but it would also make them even MORE susceptible to soft CC. It would be pretty much as bad as pre-buffs Warrior where they couldn’t avoid being kited to death.

With all these in mind here’s my suggestion:

• Increase the CD of Rush but make it be halved if it connects with something.

• Reduce the distance but make the attack faster and remove cripple and chill and make them immune to it while Rushing.

• Change the attack once you reach the target to one that activates as soon as you reach them and possible make it have a slightly wider range so that it can’t be so easily avoided with non dodge.

I’m suggesting that the ONLY skill that be touched right now is Rush. Messing with Rush, Savage leap, and Whirlwind Attack in the same patch could be disastrous for the class (reducing Whirlwind Attaack’s range would actually be a buff to it’s combat effectiveness I bet because the attacks would be close together).

Tee point of this post is that there needs to be a way to let Warriors use their gap closes as gap closers and not punishing Warriors that use them as such just because some run away in WvW. Complaining about S/Horn + GS builds is ridiculous seeing that their combat effectiveness isn’t that great.

The balance team has been making me nervous recently since many nerfs that are passed out come from demands on these forums from players who have never played Warrior and probably just want them to be like launch where they were easily soft CC’d to death. If Warrior’s ability to “run away” is reduced (which I still hardly find to be a issue and even in WvW it’s most due to -condi duration food) and Combustive Shot gets more counterplay there will be little left for people to whine about when it comes to Warrior. I’m sure they’ll still harp on Healing Signet even though now that I’ve started playing my Engi a lot more I find healing Turret to be much stronger but there’s always going to be players who hate on Warrior no matter what.

EDIT: One more small tangent, can we PLEASE get more frequent smaller balance changes!? Waiting 6 months to get the whole meta flipped upside down is really frustrating. Getting small tweaks every 1-2 months would make so much more sense.

I keep seeing references to Warrior mobility being too strong. My question to these people is, how would you nerf this without dumbing down the game or making Warriors unable to close the gap?

Say you make skills like Rush and Savage Leap require a target. That to me seems like a major step back in terms of MMO design. Requiring a target to do an attack seems so archaic. Having more freedom of movement is one of the strongest parts of this game. I can’t touch other MMOs that require targets because of this system. Also, since this mobility issue is only really an “issue” in WvW do you think requiring a target would actually change anything? With skills that teleport it makes sense for it to require a target but less so with leaps/running. Here’s what would happen, the Warrior would target an ambient mob or any other mob and use the skill. If they get close enough to hit they’ll cancel the attack via weapon swap or sheathing the weapon. Basically, nothing will change.

If you give Rush/SL the Ride the Lightning treatment do you think that would really change anything? You’ll have the same situation as above where they’ll just target a white or yellow mob that are almost everywhere in WvW. If you did want to encourage these skills for only gap closing then maybe you could up the CD on Rush and have it be halved if it hits something. TO do that and be fair though ANet would HAVE to change the skill so that it more reliably connects with the target.

Reducing the distance also poses problems. Sure, this would make using them for running harder, but it would also make them even MORE susceptible to soft CC. It would be pretty much as bad as pre-buffs Warrior where they couldn’t avoid being kited to death.

With all these in mind here’s my suggestion:

• Increase the CD of Rush but make it be halved if it connects with something.

• Reduce the distance but make the attack faster and remove cripple and chill and make them immune to it while Rushing.

• Change the attack once you reach the target to one that activates as soon as you reach them and possible make it have a slightly wider range so that it can’t be so easily avoided with non dodge.

I’m suggesting that the ONLY skill that be touched right now is Rush. Messing with Rush, Savage leap, and Whirlwind Attack in the same patch could be disastrous for the class (reducing Whirlwind Attaack’s range would actually be a buff to it’s combat effectiveness I bet because the attacks would be close together).

Tee point of this post is that there needs to be a way to let Warriors use their gap closes as gap closers and not punishing Warriors that use them as such just because some run away in WvW. Complaining about S/Horn + GS builds is ridiculous seeing that their combat effectiveness isn’t that great.

As someone who now plays more Engi than War now let me pose this question.

If Engi did not have this weakness to nuke conditions what WOULD they be weak against? The class is absurdly good at dishing out condis while still maintaining a high amount of swiftness and having access to multiple blocks and a invul/stealth. I would say that when it comes to sustained conditions they are superior to Necro. That being said Necro is a class that generally loves condis being on them.

There are still Engi builds that can beat Necros. Turrets w/ a rifle can ping pong them around so much that they never even get to USE their condis. I’m going to start messing around with Elixirs more because those ARE good condi cleanse. Everyone just abandoned HGH when they nerfed nades power scaling but it’s still a solid enough build. You could probably go Celestial as well.

We need to get passed this idea of Class vs. Class and start thinking about things as Build vs. Build.

Warrior has the potential to be good at w/e they want to…but they CAN NOT do it all in one build.

Hambow
Pros: High Control, AoE, high condi clear
Cons: Little to no mobility and highly predictable

GS + LB Skirmisher
Pros: High mobility, AoE, good potential burst, condi cleanse
Cons: Miss Pin Down or Bull’s Charge and you’re doomed, no way to deny a stomp (this is huge)

Skullcracker
Pros: High control, burst, mobility
Cons: Condi cleanse dependent on hitting a highly telegraphed Burst, worthless against any build with high amounts of teleports/stuns/blinds

S/S + LB Condi
Pros: High condi pressure and reliable condi cleanse
Cons: Most condis are mostly single target and it’s totally worthless vs anything with high cleanse

Axe/Sword + LB Celestial
Pros: Wide variety of damage, Evis, Condi Cleanse
Cons: No mobility and no way to deny a stomp

I left out Shout Heal and a couple of others as well because I would hope you get the point by now.

It’s not about talking about what Warrior lacks as a class, it’s what the builds they use lack. I think Warrior is the best designed class because you basically have a build for w/e role you want to play. If every class got to this point then it wouldn’t be about what class you play but what role you want to fill and the class is just what flavor you want.

xbutcherx.3861:

That is why I use Rune of Hoelbrak.

This is why I didn’t buy any for WvW.

Phaeton.9582:

Going off ‘optimal’ builds…

Warrior>Engineer, Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, Ele
Necro> Engineer, Ranger, Mesmer
Engineer>Ranger, Guard, Ele
Guard>Mesmer, non acro thief, Ele, Warrior, Necro
Thief (acro trickery)> All (but some engineers?)
Ele> Necro, Ranger
Mesmer> Engineer, Ele
Ranger>Guard, Mesmer

Thoughts? Not seen something like this before, I’m sure other ppl have different ideas. I main GC guard (though multi-class) so my perspective of its 1v1 capabilities may be warped a bit XD

Also to guards struggling with the new thief build (and we should be able to beat thieves). Sword MH will beat them. Sadly it lacks the cleave/team fight pressure to be viable elsewhere.

A good Mesmer should generally beat a Warrior. They have to be careful around Longbows but proper placement should still overcome it. If they are control focused it should be non contest because Mes has so many escapes and pseudo-escapes.

As for Engi V War it kinda depends, but I still think the Engi has the edge. If they use Hammer/Mace and you have Protection Injection (and many builds do) you can eat a whole combo and they just pop your Healing Turret and it’s like nothing even happened. There’s also Acidic Coating that can really screw up Burst skills. If running Experimental Turrets with Thumper AND Prot Inj your Protection up time is so high that you can force them to use all of their Stability/Zerker Stance then just control chain them. I fought a Axe/Sword + LB War in PvP last night (and he was pretty high on the leaderboard) and there just wasn’t much he could do. Of course, then a Staff Ele comes along and Meteor Shower kills all of the Turrets and the Engi is left with no friends.

That same War build however destroys S/D Thieves. Just wait for the pause after their combo and use Evis and boom, dead or sent running. Not to mention they will have to spend a lot of time fighting on Combustive Shot and getting hit my Impale when the War is stacking Might really punishes them.

That being said it doesn’t make sense to make class vs class but it should instead be build vs build. There used to be a chart floating around here where you have all the Meta builds matched up and people discussed what beat what generally. It might be time for another one of those.

All the classes you mentioned as being able to be checked off is something I agree and disagree with. When it comes to PvP, build diversity is a pretty big issue. That being said, most of that is because of how we only have 1 main PvP mode and the mechanics/design of that one mode. Certain strategies are always going to be present when you make tiny circles where 1 tanky player can deny the cap of multiple others. There’s also the issue of certain builds (and in the case of Ele, classes) that are way stronger than they should be due to gear. The Might duration runes in addition to traits/sigils that stack Might let you use tanky amulets but still have high damage.

Of course there are also many cases of certain weapons just not being good, traits that should be in the same line or the same trait, and bugged or useless traits (Brawler’s Recovery -_-). While other classes do need more attention than others, you can’t just ignore the classes that are currently “good.” As a Warrior I am really sick of having to find viable alternatives to Hambow because I’ll be kitten ed if I’m going to play the same build for like a year straight. I’m tired of being HAMstringed into using a longBOW if I don’t want to be eaten alive by conditions. I’d also like to see the skill ceiling heightened. After going back to my Engi it’s easy to see that there’s much greater room for self-improvement. It’s not that much harder to play, but playing it well offers much greater rewards.

I’ve recently started playing Thief. Sadly with my terrible internet it’s way harder than it should be (certain skills just cause me to rubber band like crazy), but most builds feel like you focus on using just a few skills and your other set is just there for the occasional swap (SB 3 is useless to me because every leap makes me rubber band back half the distance I travel). There’s some though needed in regards to positioning and picking the right target but as someone who played a lot of Assassin in GW1 it feels terrible in comparison. Sin was based around dealing high damage through a whole combo, not the repeated use of a couple (although there was 1 build like that but if you messed up you were punished more).

Paavotar.3971:

lunyboy.8672:

Paavotar.3971:

….

This is where the talent of reading your opponent and understanding counterplay really comes in though, when you can feint a big flashy move only to cancel it and land something else, like a knockdown. You bait out your opponents defenses while smashing yourself against their weaknesses, and weaknesses are something most warriors are light on.

In my opinion it’s kinda stupid that as a warrior I have to learn to cancel out my own actions with a button that isn’t ment for it and is not really promoted in the game itself and afaik no other profession has to cancel own actions to be effective in higher skill levels. I like the skill canceling, but it’s not really ment to be there so it shouldn’t be counted into balancing stuff out.

That’s part of why I feel much better on my Engi. I never feel like I need to skill cancel because missing one small combo isn’t the end of the world because I got 4 others and they all come off CD relatively fast.

Also in WvW, if I take Rocket Boots/perma swiftness/high Vigor up-time my ability to escape isn’t that much lower than my Warrior. The only weakness is that there’s no stability so I have to make sure I get a head start. That’s also not a huge deal because I’m mostly ranged anyways.

It seems like the vast majority of issues many have with the Warrior are almost all due to GEAR, FOOD, or other mechanics. Most of these things are available to all classes it just so happens that Warrior benefits from them more. Something to note: while running Dogged March, Mel Runes, and Lemongrass Poultry Soup means you can shrug off most light CC there’s also a pretty significant investment of gold to do that. A full set of Mel runes is around 50g, and LGPS hovers around the 25-30 silver mark. This is not a setup that your average “scrub” is going to be aware of much less able to reliably afford. Also of note is that Koi Cakes are dirt cheap and give you +40% condi duration, which is much better than what the Soup gives for the price.

In PvP, the amount of movement reduction via traits/runes feels just fine. Most meta builds don’t use GS and are practically forced into LB to reliable deal with condis. Also, these tears over Zerker Stance are ridiculous. If you can’t tell that the Warrior is glowing orange-red and that there’s a very obvious icon by their name that is entirely your fault. It also doesn’t cleanse condis already on you. Here’s how you beat a Warrior with a LB + CI + Zerk Stance with conditions:

• Apply just enough conditions to bait out Zerk Stance. Fear is a good opener because it may force them to pop their Stability AND Zerk Stance.
• If you have any power based damage, focus on that for the duration. If not, just focus entirely on being defensive. Dodge the important skills (Sigil of Energy is good on pretty much any build) and don’t spend too much time in the fire field if you can avoid it. Combustive Shot pulses much less now so avoiding them is much easier than it used to be. During these 8 seconds I CONSTANTLY see the condi user use all their best skills and then they have nothing once it runs out.
• After those 8 seconds you have a choice depending on the situation. If they used a LB burst right at the end of the Zerk Stance then seize the opportunity to load them up on conditions. If you think they have a burst, use just enough condi that it baits out the burst, THEN go for your heavy hitters.
• Grats, the Warrior is now out of their best anti condi measures and can do little to stop you.

Common Mistakes:

• Necros love to open up with Signet of Spite, which means it either hit Zerk Stance or they use it as soon as it hits meaning you won’t be able to capitalize on it.
• Engis just cycle through nades at the start leading to the same issue as the Necro. You blew all your best skills at the point when the Warrior is strongest against them. Most Engi condi builds should have enough defense to avoid being killed for 8 seconds. You have your shield skills, Gear Shield, and depending on your build Rocket Boots/Elixir S/Slick Shoes/Whatever. If you have triple kit you can bait out stability OR buy yourself time with Big Ol’ Bomb. Either they pop stability to wade through it, of they stay out of the area which means they’re either pinging with LB (not that scary) or just not doing anything.
• Power builds can just do what they do since you don’t care about condi anyways. Before you say something about “hur but wut bout heavy armor!?” I should remind you that it’s been posted on these forums multiple times that the difference between armor types is not that significant.

I follow the tips above when I play Engi and Warriors are hardly an issue. In fact, when it comes to actual combat prowess I feel much stronger on my Engi and contrary to what some try to tell you it’s NOT that much harder to play than any other class.

The only thing I really wanna see some underwater weapons be able to be used on land, specifically spears. The models and skins are already in the game, and many of the attacks can be kept as is and slightly modified for land.

As a Warrior, I’d love to have a pull on my bar. The burst would have to be changed because another stun would be pointless. Maybe some sort of knockback or short blowback with some stacks of vulnerability. What would make it interesting for all classes that could use it is that the strikes have more range. I think 150 vs 130 is a bit low but if it was upped a bit more it would lead to some interesting tactics.

It’s mostly because I think the legendary looks fantastic and I’d love a reason to actually try and make it.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

bigmonto.4215:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Why was I so particular on control with Fear? Because it’s the only way a necro can stop a Warrior from using their burst skill and thus keep them from just cleanisng everything. If there were options for stun instead of Fear, you can bet I’d use them too!

Ahha, so CI is not OPed. You just control him so he can’t hit with burst or you can evade the burst, or block it, or blind it, or….. As powerful as it sounds, this is the intended weakness with CI. In fact CI is not enough, this scenario is precisely the reason why we don’t just run CI + zerker stands as you claimed.

Just because a profession is weak against conditions does not, and should not be completed destroy by it. As it stands now, warrior is still weak against conditions.

No, CC works against any cleanse ability outside of those that also are stunbreakers. This is not some technique showing a weakness of CI. Instead, it’s showing that a 3 condition cleanse on as little as a 7 second cooldown necessitates being locked out of it. Necros have one of the few condition builds that can actually do that. This is not a case of “see, it can be beaten, it’s not OP.” Overpowered things can still be beaten, it just takes much, much more work. If I miss one Fear timing, I’m set back quite a lot. All I’m doing is working to counter your trait.

“Weak to conditions” does not mean “always loses to conditions,” no. I agree with you on that. However, it also does not mean “having the best cleansing ability in the game without investing a single skill, rune, or sigil for it.”

Blocks/blinds/evades don’t work against Hambow builds to prevent CI. Even if they did, landing your burst skills has never been difficult (outside of Kill Shot). No more difficult than landing some CC, for example.

I’d like you to try something.

First, go play a build with CI but don’t use Burst Mastery or Berserker Stance. Try with a LB then without.

Then, go play Warrior with either Mending, a Traited Warhorn, or Shouts w/ Soldier runes with no CI or Zerk Stance.

Finally, Play with a combination of those from the 2nd suggestion. I have a feeling that if you encounter any conditions build, you probably won’t win if they’re even mildly competent. The first option is the least punishing, and if you take Signet of Stamina you might do OK, but it’ll be hell. With suggestions 2 and 3 you’ll find your condition removal to be pathetic. Even with Warhorn + Soldier Shouts running anything other than conditions (which would be lessen because of having a Horn) your damage output will be pathetic so a condi build would still win.

My point is that Warrior is walking on the edge of good and useless. One wrong nerf and Warriors go back to being a laughing stock that can’t survive after Berserker Stance is up. It would be a return to the days of running “try to down something before being downed yourself” builds.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I actually agree with Julie Yann. Warriors are actually pretty easy to keep in check unless they use Zerker Stance then all of their mobility skills. In this case, it isn’t the mobility skill that’s the issue, it’s the fact that you can’t do anything about Zerker Stance.

Watching a Chilled Warrior try to Savage Leap or Rush is actually hilarious, because it accomplishes nothing. I actually think the game would lose something special if abilities like this couldn’t be used without a target.

I agree with your last point especially. What makes this game unique is that many skills don’t require a target. It makes the game feel much less restrictive and allows for more creative strategies.

The mobility isn’t a problem in PvP, and what makes it a problem in WvW is -condi duration food. Both the -duration and +duration condi food need to go if you want this to not be a problem. It’s not fair to punish a class in other game modes because something happens to synergize better than with other classes. The same can be said for Strength/Pirate runes.

jportell.2197:

Josh Davis.6015:

Snip

Snip

What you’re saying only applies to a Warrior who is landing all of their bursts. The only weapon that makes this easy is LB. Any other melee weapon is highly dependent on landing their burst in order to actually cleanse. I would argue that CI is one of the most well designed condi removal traits in the game because it requires the player to actually do something. That being said I can meet you half way and suggest this:

What if Combustive Shot required a hit in order to activate/cleanse? Right now you actually can block CS but not every class has a skill that can. So what if CS had to have someone in the circle actually be hit by a small initial attack before it became a combo field? That would make it still a good way to reliably activate CI but gives enemies a chance to react. To compensate the travel time might need to be sped up a tiny bit because otherwise it would be laughably easy to avoid.

With that change every Burst the Warrior has would be an obvious telegraph that enemies should always see coming. Good Warriors will be able to time them or set them up while bad ones will continuously miss them and get eaten alive by condi spam.

EDIT: I want to add something about mobility. If you want to give Rush the RtL treatment then the CD should be upped to around 30 but should be halved if it connects. Having a gap closer nerfed because it also happens to be decent at running away isn’t exactly fair. It goes without saying that this also means Rush needs to have its pathing looked at so your character doesn’t just run up and whiff the attack on anyone who is slightly moving to the side.

I don’t like the idea of making it require a target because that makes things feel so restrictive when the GS as a weapon is supposed to be about being fast. As for GS + Sword/Warhorn, really? It’s a build that has nothing but mobility and one easy to predict combo. It’s a build centered around mobility so let it have that. Losing to that sort of build generally means you done goofed something up.

I never said that I myself found 1v1s to be particularly imbalanced, but there are plenty of posts here stating that they think that the whole game should revolve around those situations. THAT is what I oppose. I would much rather have a balanced team game. Generally that means that some builds are going to be really strong 1v1 and maybe only 1 or 2 builds are going to counter it.

As an example my current version of Skullcracker is only really weak to maybe 1-2 Mesmer builds (depends on how well you squash the clones/phats) and 1 Necro build. That being said in team fights you’ll have to deal with people overriding your long stun and the fact that outside of cleave you have little group utility. In a team fight you’re better off going after a totally different target than everyone else so that they don’t screw you up. Nerfing the build’s 1v1 capability would mean making it totally worthless in team situations.

On the opposite side of that coin some builds are only so-so in 1v1 but wreck face in team situations. Those builds are the real issue, I’ve seen so many PvP teams running double Engi where they just start the fight by using their Supply Drop with Accelerant Packed Turrets which just causes untold amounts of havoc especially when paired with a Rifle. Or these Celestial D/D Eles that have decent damage while also providing team support. The builds are beatable but provide so much in a team fight it’s not even funny. If we went by a 1v1 balance philosophy that would mean that the 2 builds listed above are fine, a team balance philosophy may not agree.

Cogbyrn.7283:

BurrTheKing.8571:

It would be silly to balance the game around dueling servers that aren’t officially supported and WvW roaming that has minimal effect on the overall outcome. This is not a fighting game, this is not a RTS, the closest relative to this game would probably be a moba like LoL or DotA. Even then, those games have more cases of 1v1s than what we see in GW2 so even then it’s not a perfect fit. Some of these comparisons I’m seeing make no sense.

Au contraire. Roaming consists of:

• Scouting enemy movements (crucial for well-coordinated defenses)
• Flipping camps (PPT)
• Killing Yaks (Points)
• Taking Sentries (Points)

If you have 10 people in a group, and they take a Tower to guarantee the PPT, you have +10 points. If you have 10 people roaming, and they each flip a camp, you can guarantee +50 points. That isn’t counting any yaks killed and sentries capped along the way.

Roaming done well is, in fact, a large factor.

If you are going to draw a comparison to a MOBA like DOTA 2, you should use it in the sPvP sense and say that everyone has access to play the same set of things, so if you actually want to win, and something feels strong, pick it up and play it. The 1v1 aspect in sPvP is similar: some match-ups are strong for your build, some are weaker, and you coordinate with your team to put yourself in an advantageous of a position as possible. That’s just how it works.

The key to remember here, though, is that people get attached to their characters in this game, like most MMOs. You don’t just have a rough laning phase with your hero then have an entirely different game next match. You run into the same classes over and over and over again, and if a match-up is difficult, it happens over and over and over again. Leading to frustration (see: forums).

I think it’s important for people to remember that it’s OK for a class/build to be difficult to fight. That class/build has difficulty fighting something else. Losing a fight like that doesn’t mean you’re a terrible player, nor does it mean you have to excuse it by calling the other person a terrible player. Even the dreaded condi Engi can get obliterated by Necros.

The moment you get frustrated and rage-quit against something while calling it “cheese” is the same moment you stop evolving and improving as a player. If there’s a will, there’s a way.

Those WvW aspects you mentioned are still much less important than those big pushes that capture the stuff that gives your server score. If we were to balance around roaming it would mean that you’re probably not balancing around those big group fights that makes the biggest difference. In terms of overall importance I would much rather balance for the big fights and not the small ones.

The people I was mostly addressing are those who roll Thief and do nothing in WvW but go around ganking people. These people eventually run into a Warrior that can survive their spike and then counter attack and they decide they don’t like that so they come here to make up crap about Warriors. I would say at least half of the things non-Warrior players post about Warriors is wrong in some way or at least overly exaggerated for effect. And of course throw in a video of a fully buffed Warrior killing up-levels, a guy who just spams his auto attack, and the guy recording who has no food or buffs of any kind.

I’m copy/pasting what I posted in the Ready Up post because it’s relevant.

This “Warrior is best at every” crap is really getting to be annoying. Warrior is decent at several things,but it is FAR from the “best” at everything.

• Ele, Thief, and even Guardian can have higher DPS

• Guardian, Ele, and Engi can have better sustain

• Guardians and Eles offer better group support

• Necromancers and Engis have better AoE Conditions

• You could argue that in PvP Engis have better CC since the pushbacks are much more valuable than stuns and knockdowns.

• [EDIT] Thief has superior mobility

I also see people acting like Warrior can do everything in one build, which in nonsense. Hambow is predictable and its most damaging attacks avoidable. Celestial Axebow has little to no way to deny a stomp. Skullcracker is vulnerable to condi overload once Zerker Stance is up. Condi Warrior is shut down by any build/team with decent cleanse and again lacks stomp denial. All of the Warrior meta builds have gaping holes just waiting to be exploited.

The fact that we still have people complaining about Warrior when Celestial Eles and Engis exist is mind boggling. Let;s not forget the major weakness in most all Warrior builds that they left out, massive telegraphs. Basically every single heavy hitter has a big neon sign letting you know it’s coming. It’s not the classes fault that there’s a race race of chibi rat people that have difficult to see animations. It’s also not the classes fault that some rune sets make some builds stronger than they were.

————————

To add on from that, heavy armor is not that much stronger than medium or light. Protection is much more valuable, or being able to just not take damage in the first place. That ties in with the health pool, compared to other classes Warrior generally has to just eat the attacks that come their way. They can’t stealth, teleport, use Aegis, spam evades (1 skill on GS), or consistently block (Mace and Shield only with 1 short on on offhand sword), nor do they have large amounts of blind (1 on LB with a fairly long CD). They have no real invulnerability skills like Elixir S or Mist Form, they have skills that reduce ONE type of damage to 0, but the attacks themselves still connect.

If you’re only going to point out the strengths of a class, you’re not actually being objective about it. You can’t just say “Warrior does X, Y, and Z better” without acknowledging what they CAN’T do.

This “Warrior is best at every” crap is really getting to be annoying. Warrior is decent at several things,but it is FAR from the “best” at everything.

• Ele, Thief, and even Guardian can have higher DPS

• Guardian, Ele, and Engi can have better sustain

• Guardians and Eles offer better group support

• Necromancers and Engis have better AoE Conditions

• You could argue that in PvP Engis have better CC since the pushbacks are much more valuable than stuns and knockdowns.

• [EDIT] Thief has superior mobility

I also see people acting like Warrior can do everything in one build, which in nonsense. Hambow is predictable and its most damaging attacks avoidable. Celestial Axebow has little to no way to deny a stomp. Skullcracker is vulnerable to condi overload once Zerker Stance is up. Condi Warrior is shut down by any build/team with decent cleanse and again lacks stomp denial. All of the Warrior meta builds have gaping holes just waiting to be exploited.

The fact that we still have people complaining about Warrior when Celestial Eles and Engis exist is mind boggling. Let;s not forget the major weakness in most all Warrior builds that they left out, massive telegraphs. Basically every single heavy hitter has a big neon sign letting you know it’s coming. It’s not the classes fault that there’s a race race of chibi rat people that have difficult to see animations. It’s also not the classes fault that some rune sets make some builds stronger than they were.

One more thing, this game has never been and will likely never be balanced around 1v1. Every game mode is based around teams. Something that is balanced 1v1 may be way too strong in a team fight. Inversely, some things are much stronger in groups than in a 1v1. In the case of PvP team fights and rotations are what wins games. In WvW it’s group coordination. It would be silly to balance the game around dueling servers that aren’t officially supported and WvW roaming that has minimal effect on the overall outcome. This is not a fighting game, this is not a RTS, the closest relative to this game would probably be a moba like LoL or DotA. Even then, those games have more cases of 1v1s than what we see in GW2 so even then it’s not a perfect fit. Some of these comparisons I’m seeing make no sense.

Cygnus.6903:

a t s e.9614:

No offense but your suggestions make me wonder if you really play warrior or another class..

His suggestion actually screams being a warrior, it’s all good fun.

I mean, everyone who isn’t a Warrior says we can already do everything, so why not make that reality? :P

Julie Yann.5379:

Poplolita.2638:

Julie Yann.5379:

Poplolita.2638:

You shouldn’t ask the warrior community if their class is OP or not, you will mostly get delusional responses. Really, warriors are over the top in pve/wvw/tpvp (Not for the reasons you listed though, see rune of strenght for example), and that’s not even up to discussion.

Please, tells how they are over the top in every game mode? We would like to know.

If the runes of strength are the problem then nerf the kittening runes. This is what I don;t get, warrior with any other rune set is average to strong depending on the rune. Then Anet gives us some ridiculously strong runes that blend well with our skill and people start crying nerf warrior when in fact the runes are the problem.

Sigh, it’s getting redundant; if you can’t figure that by yourself just by playing the game, then I’ll suggest you to see other people feeling toward warriors:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Ready-Up-16/first#post4121043

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Ready-Up-Balance-Philosophy-6-13-Noon-PDT/page/8#post4121058

So is explaining how warriors aren’t over the top in every game mode and show evidence on how they really aren’t the best at anything except maybe CC (Engis are a very close second).

Ele and Thief > DPS than Warrior
D/D Ele and Guardian > sustain than a warrior
Necro > conditions than a warrior
Guardian has highest armor due being heavy and having protection
Necro has highest health pool due to have more than 1 health bar.

The most important member of a dungeon party is a good guardian.
The most important member of a WvW hammer train is a good guardian.
The no PvP team without a guardian made it very far in ToL.

To add on to your point, most of Warrior’s mechanics are very “selfish.”

A Warrior can not sustain their team nearly as well as a Guardian.

A Warrior can get themselves out of a fight, but they can’t teleport their entire team out of one.

A Warrior can remove/mitigate a lot of conditions, but outside of Shouts they can’t do it for their whole team and doing so means basing your entire build around it.

A Warrior can apply a lot of control, but they can’t repeatedly force someone off of a capture point.

My point is that while they can do a lot of things well, but those things only benefit the Warrior. In a team fight, behind every good Warrior is a good team. There’s a reason why we haven’t seen any 5 Warrior teams at high level play that have done well.

Olba.5376:

Because the only thing we’re missing from a GS/Sword+Warhorn mobility setup is stealth.

Because Sword/Warhorn + GS builds are dramatically changing the landscape of the game by being good at running away.

I will admit though I use Warhorn so infrequently that I forgot that it has a blast finisher now. So I suppose you could use it with an Axe or Mace but it’s not really that amazing still. if you wanted to combo off it you’d need to be using Berserker Stance or Signet of Fury to really capitalize on it and basically all you did is substitute the Shield Bash as your setup and in the case of Signet of Fury had to sub out a utility. Even with Sword/Warhorn + GS it’s still a spec that is mostly about running away. I’ve never understood why people get so mad over a spec that only really has 2 ways of dealing damage. So you didn’t kill them, at least you saw them run away, a Thief or Mesmer can stealth and stay nearby and you’re left guessing as to whether they left are are going to ambush you. I still think it would be hilarious to see a Warrior leap through a dirt cloud then appearing behind someone and hitting them with Final Thrust.

Harkan.9017:

anet pls make it happen so I can watch the community cry more about Warriors. We’ll truly be Thieves in heavy armor.

I can see it now:

“OMG Anet dis Warrior stealthed for 15 seconds then 1 shot me!”

“Anet Warriors can now have best Healing, DPS, CC, AoE, Condition Damage, and now Stealth all in one build!”

“War now 2 gud anet I quite gaem cuz now my teef is ussless”

Let me just start by saying I know this is a crazy idea that many people may not like, but if you ask me it would open up some really interesting options for the Warrior. Sometimes it’s fun throwing out impractial-but-cool ideas.

Arcing Slice: Kick up a cloud of dust, creating a Smoke Field.

The combo field could be the size of Black Powder or smaller. The duration and number of pulses would be tied to the adrenaline level. For each level you would get 1 pulse and 1 second duration, so at full you would have a 3 second field and 3 pulses. So, what good would a smoke field be for a Warrior? Well if we wanted to be a bit boring you could have your other set be a Long Bow/Rifle and get a few free blind shots off, but that wouldn’t be very interesting.

The intended synergy is with Sword. What it would allow is for the Warrior to use Arcing Slice, swap to sword, use Savage Leap, then with the stealth attempt to land Final Thrust. The idea came from the old action movie/anime trope of someone kicking up a cloud of dirt then appearing somewhere else (almost always behind the target, you’d think they would see it coming by now) for a sneak attack.

The balancing factor is the fact that outside of Sword no other weapon set can really take a huge advantage of gaining stealth. You could have Burst Mastery and use an Evis, but what’s the follow-up? You could use Bull’s Charge, but if you have a target you reveal yourself instantly and using it w/o one means you just rocketed yourself away from the fight. You could use Arcing Arrow or Earthshaker, but in the case of Hammer that means you just used your burst to not actually hit anything so any other attacks will not have the bonus from Merciless Hammer. Maybe if you have full adren you could go Arcing Slice, Berserker Stance/Signet of Fury, Shield Bash with no target, Skull Crack, swap to 100b. The timing would be so tight though that you probably wouldn’t be able to swap right after landing SC. Maybe I’ve overlooked some super OP combo but nothing else really stands out. Also it should have around a 1 second cast to to avoid Wars being able to quickly pop it and get that few seconds stealth and run.

Another benefit though would be that even if your other weapon set can’t really capitalize on the smoke field it would still trigger Cleansing Ire just like Combustive Shot. This would open up more dual melee set builds that would not be so easily overwhelmed by a few conditions.

Let me state again that I know that this will never happen or be taken seriously. I just thought that the idea of running GS+Sword and being able to play like a D/P Thief was a hilarious concept. Feel free to post any of your own impractical suggestions here as well.

Xaylin.1860:

BurrTheKing.8571:

@Xaylin.1860 What keeps you from subbing out Bull’s Charge for Signet of Stamina is obvious, 100b would be worthless without it. No Bull’s = no setup = the most damaging skill on GS is worthless. Try running that build without Bull’s and you’ll quickly find that your DPS isn’t all that amazing and the role would be better filled by a Thief.

Oh come one, that’s not even remotely true for the first build. There is so much CC due to using Mace and Shield. In the Axe build you trade CC for damage. Again: You can’t expect to have it all. The chain might be less frequent but not impossible since you still got your Shield stun. Even then I know from experience that skills like 100b still hit your opponent without a set up very frequently. You are always assuming the worst case scenario.

If you don’t feel that A/S + GS works without Bulls Rush in this scenario then you will have to make sacrifices elsewhere. That’s how most classes have to deal with stuff like this.

Trying running either without Bull’s Charge. With the Skullcracker one, you need to force them to pop their counter measures as quickly as possible. Shield Bash and Bull’s are there to force them to use all their stun breaks/stability/invulnerability before going in for the kill. This is especially important when fighting Necros. The longer the fight against them drags on, the worse things are going to get for you. Signet of Stamina will only delay the inevitable. You also underestimate how slow and obvious Skull Crack is. Sure you can hit it without a setup, but then you run into the problem stated earlier that they’ll still have ways to break out. I’m actually starting to sacrifice DPS and dropping Runes of Strength for either Hoelbrak or Melandru.

As for the Axe build, I’d love to see how you could get a significant number of hits w/o using some sort of setup. Anything less than 4 hits and you might as well have been auto attacking. If someone is going to stand in that then the user wasn’t skilled, the other guy was stupid. If you can find me a recent video of a Warrior getting good hits with 100b on good players them maybe I would reconsider.

Warrior feels like a class that is supposed to be a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none class. Classes like this are like stealth classes where no matter what you do to them people will always hate them. Outside of control (and these days Engis might be on par) Warriors can do a lot of things but not as well as other classes. They can build for sustain but they won’t be as good as a Guardian. They can run Conditions but a Necro or Engi has much better AoE application. They can gear for damage but a Thief can generally do it easier/more consistently.

The best Warrior builds rarely focus on one thing. Hambow has Control and AoE with a bit of condi. Celestial Axebow does consistent power damage with Condi pressure. Skullcracker has control with a damage spike and mobility. The only fairly purist build that’s any good would be S/S LB Condi which is pretty solid 1v1 but meet a DS Ele or a team with decent condi removal and you’re not nearly as useful as a Necro/Engi. I am so sick of people saying ignorant crap like “Warriors do everything best” because it’s just flat out wrong. There is no good Warrior build that has mobility, control, damage, condi clear, and condi damage. All of those builds listed above lack several of those things completely or don’t do others as well as other classes.

I like the concept and would like to see it continue but what worries me is the balance team taking players who will NEVER, EVER be happy with Warrior until it’s worse than launch seriously. We already had nerfs made to Combustive Shot that didn’t make sense, if I recall correctly it had the number of pulses reduced because a dev said something about it refilling its own adrenaline bar due to multiple hits when it never did that. That was put forth by someone who didn’t play Warrior and didn’t know what they were talking about but their feedback got implemented.

Many of the “problems” people have with Warrior come from things like Runes of Strength and other things that everyone have but just happen to benefit Warrior more than some other classes. The class feels way more “complete” than most of the others do but if they continue to get nerfed then it’s just going to become yet another terrible class that no one wants to plat (which as stated earlier is the goal of some on these forums).

I’d much rather see under-preforming classes buffed right now than having this continued stream of nerfs. This includes non-Warrior classes as well.

@Xaylin.1860 What keeps you from subbing out Bull’s Charge for Signet of Stamina is obvious, 100b would be worthless without it. No Bull’s = no setup = the most damaging skill on GS is worthless. Try running that build without Bull’s and you’ll quickly find that your DPS isn’t all that amazing and the role would be better filled by a Thief.

I don’t PvE anymore but having a skill that is only used for a few encounters doesn’t make it sound all that great to me. I also don’t agree with what you said about PvP, there’s only 1 prefered heal because the other heals are under-preforming. A good Mending would allow Warriors to be the DPS roamer and Defiant Stance would let them be a spiker. Healing Signet being the only worthwhile skill means Warriors are encouraged to build so that they draw out the fight because that’s where they’re strongest, other heals don’t promote that as much.

It definitely works on Skull Crack. I can now hit the entire 100b if they don’t have Mel runes or use a stun break. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t update the tooltip though and Hammer stun is short enough to the point where you’re not getting as much since it’s a %. If the amount is low to begin with you don’t get as much out of it.

Sarrs.4831:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Also, with a good Mending you could run something like this or possibly even this and have enough condi mitigation to kill your target before the conditions become a problem. Also, no one uses Burst Precision, it’s a worthless trait when Sigil of Intelligence exists.

Burst Precision could be an interesting decision when used with Sword Mainhand.

The damage would still be pretty low unfortunately. It’s just not a very hard-hitting ability.