Engineer still has only one optimal build for pve, which is grenades. Oct balance changes will do nothing to change that.
Grenades are still the optimal? Eww. Underwater, they’re awesome, of course, but having to manually ground target (fast ground targeting doesn’t work very well for me since you lose your cursor thanks to having to keep RMB held down so you can look around you to find targets and such) on every skill is horrible and makes me loathe playing Grenades with every fiber of my being.
Or have they finally done the sane thing and made grenades foe-targeted on land as they are underwater? (haven’t played my Engineer since November) EDIT: Just checked and it is indeed still the same old ground-targeted AOEs that make it a completely unplayable kit for me. Sad. Means I’m stuck with the flamethrower 100% of the time if I ever bother to load the Engineer again…
I hate playing grenades too but they are still the most optimal for pve. The oct update might make ground targeted skills a bit easier to use though. Specially the one where you click and at button release the skill will trigger.
Also, I don’t get what you mean by “Guardian wanna be Warriors”. Do you mean that Guradians have poor dps? If so, that is not true. I run a GS, 1h sword/focus dps build with full zerk except for glove+shoulders being knights, that can deal a ton of dmg and also have support in the form of wor and strength in numbers….which is what is mostly needed in dungeons.
*edit – typo
You can twist a die on all sides but you’ll never score a seven.
A full DPS guardian will always, objectively deal less DPS than a focused warrior, regardless how much effort you put in brainwashing yourself otherwise.
Likewise a support Warrior will always, objectively support worse than a guardian who can instead make a team almost immortal with his tools.
I simply don’t like people who play inefficiently in my teams but you’re free to do so in other teams with people who don’t care if you’re playing inefficiently or not.We both own the game and paid for it so we decide who is worth playing with, and who is not.
I’m fully aware there is a group of “sonic boon” warriors playing nurse and “full dps” guardians doing no support and trying DPS, I’m happy you guys have fun and I know trying to tell you otherwise would be like trying to convert a muslim to christianism so I let you have your niche and go my own ways.
While I agree with you that a support Warrior is useless. You and I differ completely on why they are useless.
For me, support warriors are useless precisely because they are “support”. “Support” is really bad for PvE in general.
Just as you laugh at “support” warriors, I laugh and feel pity at support Guardians (and I just feel sorry for staff guardians) You say DPS Guardians get carried through dungeons but in fact, it is completely the other way around. Anchor Guardians are a thing of the past and are only helpful in a party full of newbies who know nothing of what they are doing.
Its weird that you mention efficiency in your group with a full support Guardian. Im sorry but if you want efficiency in any dungeon, then at the moment, with the current state of the game, DPS is KING.
5 DPS spec’ed players who know what they are doing = Efficiency no matter class make up. If you want to min max and set speed records, then class comp matters. If not, then it does not.
But as you said, you and I both paid for the game. You don’t have to play the way I like and I don’t have to play the way you like. But in the end, it doesn’t change the fact that, in the current state of the game, you are completely wrong in your beliefs. While I do not care if you become a better player, as a fellow GW2 player, I suggest you educate yourself. There is plenty of information available online.
I play the way that is most efficient. If Anet comes out with a big patch that makes full support Guardians viable….then trust me….I WILL go full support Guardian. Till then, its DPS for me.
so far im frac lv 49 and i havent experienced this ‘’better class’’ system you are talking about ive done frac 48 in a hour and a hlaf with 5 eles ive done it with 2 eles a necro and 2 engineers and been perfectly fine
all it comes down to is how experienced the player is with the fractal and ai mechanics and as long as they have a good understanding on how things work for the most part fractal runs are quite smooth
Agree.
I’ve always found it weird why players (at this stage of the game) even bother looking at class comp in this game. As long as the players knows the content and their toons are correctly built, then class comp never matters.
True but it’s also true that certain comps make it much easier and/or faster.
Having a Guardian giving lots of protection uptime (i.e. not those Warrior-wannabe guardians that we carry through the dungeons) decreases the chance to fail by a lot.
Having good Warriors (i.e. not those Guardian-wannabes who spec into full defense and deal lol damages) increases the speed of the clearing.Class comps do matter, it’s a fact.
Then of course you can get away with anything, you’re just not doing it as effectively as a comp could.
1 guard 4 warriors get through a dungeon faster and safer than say 5 rangers.
I agree with you that certain comps make stuff easier/faster. But with pugs it really doesn’t matter much. Organized groups, no matter the class comp, will always make stuff easier/faster anyways.
For example, I used to cringe at the thought of having a Ranger in my party. But that’s because 99% of rangers are running longbow only at max range. When the class is used correctly, using a 1h sword/warhorn + spirits….then it becomes a joy to have them in the grp.
Also, I don’t get what you mean by “Guardian wanna be Warriors”. Do you mean that Guradians have poor dps? If so, that is not true. I run a GS, 1h sword/focus dps build with full zerk except for glove+shoulders being knights, that can deal a ton of dmg and also have support in the form of wor and strength in numbers….which is what is mostly needed in dungeons.
*edit – typo
so far im frac lv 49 and i havent experienced this ‘’better class’’ system you are talking about ive done frac 48 in a hour and a hlaf with 5 eles ive done it with 2 eles a necro and 2 engineers and been perfectly fine
Agree.
I’ve always found it weird why players (at this stage of the game) even bother looking at class comp in this game. As long as the players knows the content and their toons are correctly built, then class comp never matters.
Not to be a prick and no offense, but the reason zerker geared players die while running with you guys is exactly because he is running with you guys. The zerker player wont be able to avoid that much dmg when the fight is dragging on forever. This is why I run with two pieces of knights….because all I do is PUG. That is my sweet spot when others in my grp are running less than optimal gear for the content. My warrior also pulls out a long bow (thus dragging out the fight) when I think players in my grp are running something akin to white gear in dmg stats.
The only reason I don’t run full zerker is because I don’t bother asking for “zerk only” players, ping gear, etc. Im far too lazy for that. After all, it is the players choice to run with less optimal gear. It doesn’t change the fact that zerker gear is the most optimal gear for pve though.
This is probably answered in this fast growing thread, but i think its still good form to reply on the matter myself.
The way these zerker in party dies is simply this, within seconds of a fight they got hit by some aoe or rather hard blow from boss/mobs which doesnt even have to be the deadly 1-shot hit a boss does. Other people do this too, but traited with survival they last still, and with some strong heals, recover in no time. Remember we havent even gotten to any 1-shot-mandatory kill attacks yet. if this is AC, this is Kholer just jumping around still and not even gotten to his wire pull and spin attack thing.
I’ll be fair and not say its a zerker thing but a glass cannony thing, though those are close enough to be one. Now the will be some who ask why are we even taking such damage. It’s simple really, but i dont know if some can grasp it. Because we make mistakes. Because we either got timing off, reflexes not twitchy enough or at times in the midst of combat we miss out the telegraphs. so i dont know, I’m sorry most of us cant match your lvl of skill and reflex? We do try, but to be honest if we all go zerker zerker, by now our rate of success will be much lower, many of us will dread doing dungeons or such to a point the few still dedicated to it will have to pug for runs. But we didnt, we trait for survival, we dont care abt beating or matching an imposed timed constraint. we want to accomplish the dungeon and though we make mistakes but we can recover from it.
So unless zerkers can kill a boss within seconds of the engagement, no its not because the fight is too long for zerker.
I find myself happy assisting others, rez ppl when theyre down and such. MAYBE, just maybe me and mine, we dont see the fun in finishing dungeons in an optimal time. Maybe we see being supportive in other ways than just dps. We enjoy bringing any party of any level of skill a player has and still winning. I’m going to go and say perhaps our value in whats best is in certainty and flexibility rather than optimization. Perhaps this is where we differ.
I apologize beforehand if anyone feels i look down on zerkers though. i really dont. i just think its selfish to assume its the be all and end all way to go in pve. If the current trend is to favor PVT or knights or whatever traits, id still have the same opinion towards the matter. Can we not accept that other people not only prefer not to play as we do, but also perhaps that it is really difficult or they just could not play as we do?
Sorry, then I assumed wrong. I assumed based on my own experiences where it is usually the boss’ auto attacks that get me because the fight is dragging on for too long. For example the first boss in cof path 1.
I do find it hard to believe that someone would go down as soon as the fight starts with kholer though. Anything can happen I guess.
And thank you for replying with a well thought out response.
Notice how at the end of definition 1 it says “in the interests of a common cause”? What is that common cause for the majority of the player base? Its to finish the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time.
Hah, you fail to realize that ‘reasonable’ isn’t measurable. What is reasonable to some is unacceptable to others. Frankly, if you can’t survive as a zerker in a non-full-out-zerker group, it’s because you don’t understand the encounter enough.
I’m not pro. I’ve tried soloing dungeons and only accomplished defeating some of the bosses. I can survive as a zerker warrior or elementalist in regular PuGs with newbs or ‘just for fun’ runs.
Trying to blame the people that aren’t zerkers for the failure of a zerker is where you’re crossing the line. That line separates preference and “I’m wrong”.
Taking players like you in a dungeon surely isn’t going to help the interests of the players in said dungeon.
Lol
Zerker gear is the most optimal gear choice for pve. Fact.
You can run w/e you want. Fact.
You can create your little group of smell the flowers. Fact.
I suppose if by ‘smell flowers’ you mean solo champions while standing in his face taking his damage while my phantasms widdle him down without even needing to touch ‘v’. Of course, that’s only one of my builds. My characters can do a variety of things.
DO NOT expect to be welcomed in a grp whose sole purpose is to finish the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time and to be called out because you are wearing a horrible choice of gear and traits for pve.
Not a problem. I don’t run dungeons anymore (at least not recently).
Enjoy your nerfed gold return
Also, to touch on that. Yeah, zerkers can stop and smell the flowers too. The point though is, you never actually did otherwise the devs wouldn’t have seen a need to restrict your rewards. And they likely aren’t done screwing around with the rewards because those zerkers don’t spend time smelling the flowers, but instead drill for ways to exploit content until it needs to be fixed/nerfed.
Reasonable is completely measurable. Lets just take for example cof path 1 since everyone knows that one. A good grp (not 100% zerker) can complete that in about 7 mins. That means you take that as your base measure against the run you are currently doing, thus have created a measurement. So a cof run path 1 that takes 8-10 mins is something I would call reasonable.
As for me not knowing the encounters….lol. Just shows you don’t really understand what you are really talking about. The easiest example I can think of for a zerker warrior to go down in is the very first boss in cof path 1. Good luck sticking to him, doing tons of dmg, and not going down when the rest are newbs with what seems like white gear and horrible trait choices. Sure I can go long bow and pew pew from far away….but that is not optimal nor is the point.
See, the nice thing about internet is that you can claim to do something in which you, in real life, cannot accomplish. So that’s why we have something like “proof or didn’t happen”. I would love to see you in fractals in full zerk gear (face tanking the boss and trash) while everyone else is pewpewpewing with pvt gear and not go down once. Sure there are some bosses and some trash that you can solo without going down, but not all of them. As for me, Im not claiming something false.
“Trying to blame the people that aren’t zerkers for the failure of a zerker is where you’re crossing the line. That line separates preference and “I’m wrong”."
Lol at this. You really have no clue what optimal means do you? Are you that out of touch with the game that you fail to even know what the purpose of zerker gear is for?
I really don’t care what your characters can do nor do I care if you can solo champions or not. That is your business and no one elses. I can solo champions too with gear that is more balanced but we are talking about dungeons. Team work. Not alone. 5 players.
Lol you speak to me as if all zerker players were farmers. You REALLY are out of touch in this game. Im even starting to doubt more than half your claims now. Also, I am glad Anet nerfed those cof farms. This way, other dungeons will start being ran more often so I can get a pugs faster. Takes me less than a second to get a cof path 1 grp, compared to lets say SE, which is also easy, but takes me like 5 or more minutes during prime time.
Your point is all nice. But it doesn’t change the fact that zerker gear is the most optimal.
I could get behind this, it is easier currently to kill something faster and not worry about getting hit than to try to balance damage and survivability. Especially if you get a group together who can all drop some high-level DPS.
However! And this is a big thing . . .
I am not willing to go full glass cannon because I, simply, stink at dodging on time for many attacks. I run out of stamina due to dodging twice when once would have worked, due to missed timing. I choose P/V/T gear (Soldier’s) to try to bolster my ability to take damage. (It’s not always very successful, but hey I have surprised myself sometimes.)
On the other side, I didn’t go MF gear (Traveler’s) because the stats didn’t line up with what I was trying for and it was weaker than what I wanted to be. I might have made myself a set of armor, but my inventory is kinda cluttered already with a few things and I like having the space from time to time.
But the deep truth is either my class is just not optimal for the task (Ranger) or I am not an optimal player, so I mostly just sit out anymore. Except for Candidate Trials, where there was an actual use for being able to load about six skills to hinder movement . . .
Instead of PVT gear, try to get a mix of berserker and knights. I don’t play a ranger so I wouldn’t know what is the optimal gear for Rangers. Try going to gw2 guru (this forum is prob the worst place to find any good builds) and find a dps spec from there. Then try to find a mix of equipment that will give you enough dmg but also a bit of survivability.
For example my Warrior has two piece of knights (shoulders and gloves) and the rest berserker. I have found this to be my best balance without having to run with an organized grp.
I do wish Anet would do something to change the meta though.
Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.
I certainly don’t play as the “dps dps dps” people do
But be that as it may,I think we all tend to gravitate to like minded people. So zerker fanatics likely play mostly with zerker fanatics, which through their personal experience shows zerkers have a higher success rate than the rest. Me, after reading such stuff in forums, my phobia towards this kind of streamlined, dare i say elitist, preference means I also stick to running dungeons among guildies, who from leader to most new recruits, are against the zerker philosophy; yes we want to go with the objective of finishing a dungeon but we prefer a slow but safe approach coupled with anyone bringing in whatever they prefer, probably even MF. The few times we do encounter zerker built toons, we tend to keep seeing them flat on the ground. there are those zerkers that pull it off well, but from what i’ve seen so far… they are few and far between.
Not to be a prick and no offense, but the reason zerker geared players die while running with you guys is exactly because he is running with you guys. The zerker player wont be able to avoid that much dmg when the fight is dragging on forever. This is why I run with two pieces of knights….because all I do is PUG. That is my sweet spot when others in my grp are running less than optimal gear for the content. My warrior also pulls out a long bow (thus dragging out the fight) when I think players in my grp are running something akin to white gear in dmg stats.
The only reason I don’t run full zerker is because I don’t bother asking for “zerk only” players, ping gear, etc. Im far too lazy for that. After all, it is the players choice to run with less optimal gear. It doesn’t change the fact that zerker gear is the most optimal gear for pve though.
If you’re 733t enough, you should be able to avoid AAAAAAALLLLL!
So you’re saying, the second the devs make a mob survive just a bit longer, those berserkers will get killed?
So you think a zerker player can pretty much kill and face tank (keeping agro while dodging big attacks and don’t forget boss auto attacks) a boss that is designed to be killed with 5 players, while the rest are pewpewpewing from far away with pvt gear? Sorry, Im not that pro.
Dungeons require 5 players for a reason. Its called teamwork.
Heres the definition from dictionary.com
team·work
[teem-wurk]
noun
1.
cooperative or coordinated effort on the part of a group of persons acting together as a team or in the interests of a common cause.
2.
work done with a team.
Notice how at the end of definition 1 it says “in the interests of a common cause”? What is that common cause for the majority of the player base? Its to finish the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time.
Taking players like you in a dungeon surely isn’t going to help the interests of the players in said dungeon. Unless ofc you create your own group or run with your guild, stating that you are there to smell the flowers.
So that brings in to my final point. Which I have repeated many times (not to you, but in this thread) you chose to ignore.
Zerker gear is the most optimal gear choice for pve. Fact.
You can run w/e you want. Fact.
You can create your little group of smell the flowers. Fact.
DO NOT expect to be welcomed in a grp whose sole purpose is to finish the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time and to be called out because you are wearing a horrible choice of gear and traits for pve.
btw, zerker players can also stop and smell the flowers. I have been in like one or two zerker farms ever and I do not like them. All they do is rush rush rush. It still does NOT change the fact that zerker gear is the optimal gear choice for pve.
So your “hate” towards players with zerker gear is completely misplaced. Blame Anet for designing content that completely favors dmg over anything else.
Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.
If players are not objective-oriented then they shouldn’t join a dungeon with an explicit objective.
I don’t need to say anything more. :P Be aware that the world doesn’t revolve around yourself, though.
So now you are arguing that the point of entering a dungeon run is to not finish it?
mmm…yeah, good luck with that.
Sure, I am sure that’s what I meant.
Honestly, all I see is insults and intolerance. It’s hard to take people seriously after comments such as yours.
I won’t explain what I mean, because it’s quite obvious, and it’s nothing I haven’t stated before. Your comment does nothing to prove that 100% of players should use Berserker’s, or else they are being “selfish”.
If all you are going to do is play the damsel in distress when no one is insulting you because you have absolutely no valid points then yah. Keep at it.