Guild Wars 2

Legit Prep In.5893:

you can’t use the healing turret for might or stealth stacks anymore (unless you precast it somewhere else)

No that’s gotta be wrong. Field priority applies. See wiki: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combo

“The finisher will trigger on the earliest entered initiator; a blast finisher will give Might instead of Healing if a water field overlaps an existing fire field and the fire field was entered earlier than the water field.”

Djamonja.6453:

There are no rankings, you just go up or down if you win a tier or come last in a tier.

I think this is not a good assumption to make on how the system is going to work. There has to be rank because there are red, blue, green positions and the system has to determine who gets those positions. Historically red position belongs to/was designed for the lowest ranked server in a match, etc.

I hope it is going to be more like a one-rank-up-one-rank-down system where if like a rank 6 server wins a T2 match, it will move up to rank 5. If it keeps winning the next two matches, it will push up to rank 3 and get into the T1 match. That should make for less wild swings in matches.

Ni In.6578:

Can’t tank below CD, so don’t worry about it.

LOL good one.

I don’t expect one-up-one-down to be a cure-all but it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

Hrm, I use a different meaning for “backcapping”.

Borderland maps are set up to pit two attackers against one “home” defender. Backcapping is when one of the attackers is capping the objectives owned by the other attacker rather than attacking the defender. They are capping objectives behind the other attacking force rather than forcing the defender into a natural 2v1 situation.

The tactic can be used depending upon whether the other attacker is winning a skirmish/match or not and if you want to help the defender, but more often than not players will “backcap” without thought being given to any overarching strategy because such objectives tend to be a bit easier to take.

I don’t consider recapturing objectives on your own third or borderland as backcapping. You’re supposed to own those objectives.

trueanimus.4085:

They really need to bring back wvw seasons.. BUT before then.. they need to either break up some of the larger servers or just invent a new system for wvw scoring and matchups.

Seasons were a mess, not the least of which was due to the divisions that prevented stacked servers from rising up to a match they could be competitive in.

I think you need to do a bit more research because you wrote that a rank 3->4 server is Tier 3. Six months ago the glicko ratings were not as close as they are now. Tiers are not what they seem anymore so you may need to lower your expectations on what matches are going to be like from week to week in terms of “minimal downtime”. Two matches ago a rank 10 server was in the T1 match, for example.

If you play during EU time, you should just look for a guild that runs during that time and not worry as much about which server they are on.

Lord of Rings.5371:

Chaba.5410:

Lord of Rings.5371:

This is one up, one down and tier 2 and 3 swap.

It is not one-up-one-down. The match is the same. Don’t confuse people.

Ok.

It is one up; Tier 2 and 3 swapped and one down.

For tier 2, last week ended with Mag lead and SoS last.

Mag replaces SI, one up.

Tier 2 and 3 swapped.

FA stays.

SoS replaces CD, one down.

http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/history/515

That isn’t one up, one down. One-up-one-down would result in FA facing YB and SBI this week and DB facing SoS and NSP. You are getting off-topic now with your tangent and contributing nothing towards discussing match-making improvements.

I think you are also assuming I started this thread due to FA’s placement and so are coloring your responses towards that. I started this thread because this account is on ET, which is in the T2 match linked to DB. The fact that the match is the same is surprising and a perfect example of irrational match-making we will be seeing more of as time progresses.

It is the condi-spam. Servers struggle to calculate it all because this game considers damage every tick, not simplified damage when applied. And condi builds were buffed with the latest patch.

Lord of Rings.5371:

This is one up, one down and tier 2 and 3 swap.

It is not one-up-one-down. The match is the same. Don’t confuse people.

Natto.5819:

So you’re saying that all of T3 was promoted to T2? Surely this is a bug and Anet will focus on fixing it since no one wants to see WvW suffer.

There was no promotion. It is the same match. It was entirely possible though lowly probable. It is an example though of why match-making needs to be looked at.

The randomization added to the system was intended to prevent matches being the same and was done back when there were 8 NA tiers. Over time and before server linking, that evolved into stale matches due to glicko cliffs that had more to do with the system itself than with server populations (like arbitrary tournament “divisions”). Now with close ratings due to server links and partial glicko resets every two months, we have the same matches being rolled because the number of servers is small and the randomization is not rational. Glicko is intended for a much larger pool of participants.

At this point I’d suggest looking into a one-rank-up-one-rank-down system or at least reviewing the randomization part of the match-making.

The NA T2 match this week is the same as the NA T3 match last week. Same server opponents all randomly rolled three places up together. What was the chance of that happening?

This is not a match-up thread, only a thread to illustrate why the randomized glicko match-making needs some attention.

“Our biggest focus in this iteration for necromancers was that of Epidemic, in that its impact is too instant in most PvP scenarios, as well as its heavy toll on our servers.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-May-16-2017

So they changed epidemic but made condi builds more viable overall. /shrug

Two things:

“Jade server which was a Tier 4 and being face rolled in WvW” – Jade Quarry? This server has not been Tier 4. I’m confused by your post.

“Some of you ask you cannot transfer because of Very High population? I did, but just had to wait for non-peak time. " – Server populations are not calculated based on peak-times anymore. It is a rolling average that updates during NA daytime early in the week, which can seem like non-peak time. So people need to wait until guilds or players leave the server or stop playing WvW on it, not wait for non-peak time.

SubHonour Guard.6498:

Bannering the lord and using the keep waypoint between events were ways to prolong lord room fights.

All you needed to say was this part. Those things that prolonged the fights were pretty fun.

No. He doesn’t play thief. Mostly necro, ranger, sometimes engi.

Chaba.5410:

Chaba.5410:

Login screen character avatar lighting is just weird. Happens on Human and Norn skin colors.

LOL This seems to have been fixed a few hours after I posted. TY.

Back again. Human and Norn skins in character screen portraits are whitened.

I guess this was supposed to be a buff to toolbelt skills, but I’m not sure how since no one is going to keep a turret up that only overcharges on placement. It is akin to detonating via toolbelt anyway.

Either way, the change requires a whole lot of annoying muscle memory retraining.

Rezzet.3614:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

:v

Hahaha an oldie but goodie!

patch could be worse

Sounds like you guys are running ArcDPS or some other game modification that hasn’t been updated yet to work with the new build.

Chaba.5410:

Login screen character avatar lighting is just weird. Happens on Human and Norn skin colors.

LOL This seems to have been fixed a few hours after I posted. TY.

Login screen character avatar lighting is just weird. Happens on Human and Norn skin colors.

I don’t think Maguuma has anyone during OCX or SEA times. Most of their population is in NA Prime. Look at their income evolution during those times in their match right now.

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/38/

CrimeMaker.8612:

Chaba.5410:

Maguuma.

/15 charrs

Chaba why you do dis

The guy is looking for “epic clashes” so he wants the 40-50 man range fights, no?

Maguuma.

/15 charrs

Yuffi.2430:

• Replace glicko. But with what? Any replacement would need to accommodate both PPT and PPK play.

Use 1-up-1-down concept but with rank instead of tier and matches are based on rank, not randomized. For example, come in first place – rank up one; come in 2nd place – rank stays same, come in 3rd place – rank down one. A counter-argument would be how players can game this, but we already have players doing that with glicko. The difference is that in a tanking situation, they can only drop one rank and not several as can be done with glicko. Match-ups can’t become stale because two servers are always changing rank. Match-ups also can’t be really unbalanced since tier 4 server’s can’t jump up to tier 1 matches.

Real actual in-game conversation:

Player – Tag won’t allow people in squad.
Me – Buy a tag?
Player – I have a tag but not enough experience or trust me, I would!
Me – Not sure how you expect to gain experience then.

Tiny Doom.4380:

WvW was intended to be army vs army not guild vs guild.

I’m not really sure what you mean. Armies have divisions and specializations.

Bensozia.8071:

I wont be playing WvW this week :/

That’s really annoying. I have accounts on both FA and the linked server with you. Last night my guild got some fights against your guild where you outnumbered my guild but we came to try to fight you anyway. Why would you not play when you guys were winning those fights? I hope to get some time on my ET account too and have people around.

This is because glicko volatility and deviation is reset when servers get relinked. It means the match-making system has less information from the past to create matches that seem more appropriately balanced by rank. So matches in the first few weeks of relink seem wild.

If someone is on a linked server, you can see which map they are on and they can see which map you are on.

Malerian.8435:

Chaba.5410:

Malerian.8435:

Haematic.4913:

Angel.6085:

Plus its really hard to care what you’re saying when you’re the leader of a known blob guild. Yes, your guild isn’t dying that’s cool and all – but you are part of the problem.

To clarify, it isn’t that we can’t recruit – there is just no viable people to really play against when the opposition is all blobs. Perhaps if others kept their rosters down, then the 20 man guilds would be fine. We all claim to love those small fights, but few restrict recruitment for it.

Inb4

Anyway …

So the way I see it is, a guild that’s actively recruiting is going to pin up and get people into their squads and their voice communication servers. At times, guilds will be large, and at times that same guild will be small because of the peaks & valleys in WvW participation whether it be matchup related, IRL related, or balance related.

That’s not really the scope of Cid’s post, he’s more or less trying to encourage guilds to be strong and get out there <vs> making x,y,z excuses for their guild failures. Which I’ll agree it is attitude related, but there are still countless issues our friends at ANET are attempting to address and correct that the community has been vocal about.

For instance — I had guild members quit / leave rallies because of a certain match-up we were in because it was an issue for us operating in the borderlands. It was one extreme or another; from nothing to engage, to map queues (with 15-18 people). So we took it outside the BL into the Guild Arena and EOTM to seek alternative solutions to the current issues in our match-up. This was something out of our control, but we found a solution for the short-term and it worked out. We contacted guilds from our current matchup or other matchups and met them elsewhere, everyone was super chill about it.

Now, since the new re-link our members magically appeared back out of the woods and we picked up 3-new-recruits and went from running 15-18 -> 20-23; but I know that we’re going to balance out and dip back below 20-members per rally because that’s just the way it goes.

BAHAHA w/e y’all were not good enough to win fights in T1. Making excuses and going to the Guild Arena or EOTM simply means you need to get good!

I don’t think you understand how the current meta works.

Chaba…. I understand far more than you will ever! I have been playing since launch. I do not use what you would call “metta” as it is complete crap for all but maybe 1-2 classes. I am in a fight guild, and we have very little issues with whatever tier we are in. And we do not call a 7 man group that wipes a 20 man group a zerg….

Obviously y’all are salty as you have no clue how to fight against the current “metta”.

Now you’re just trolling.

Malerian.8435:

Haematic.4913:

Angel.6085:

Plus its really hard to care what you’re saying when you’re the leader of a known blob guild. Yes, your guild isn’t dying that’s cool and all – but you are part of the problem.

To clarify, it isn’t that we can’t recruit – there is just no viable people to really play against when the opposition is all blobs. Perhaps if others kept their rosters down, then the 20 man guilds would be fine. We all claim to love those small fights, but few restrict recruitment for it.

Inb4

Anyway …

So the way I see it is, a guild that’s actively recruiting is going to pin up and get people into their squads and their voice communication servers. At times, guilds will be large, and at times that same guild will be small because of the peaks & valleys in WvW participation whether it be matchup related, IRL related, or balance related.

That’s not really the scope of Cid’s post, he’s more or less trying to encourage guilds to be strong and get out there <vs> making x,y,z excuses for their guild failures. Which I’ll agree it is attitude related, but there are still countless issues our friends at ANET are attempting to address and correct that the community has been vocal about.

For instance — I had guild members quit / leave rallies because of a certain match-up we were in because it was an issue for us operating in the borderlands. It was one extreme or another; from nothing to engage, to map queues (with 15-18 people). So we took it outside the BL into the Guild Arena and EOTM to seek alternative solutions to the current issues in our match-up. This was something out of our control, but we found a solution for the short-term and it worked out. We contacted guilds from our current matchup or other matchups and met them elsewhere, everyone was super chill about it.

Now, since the new re-link our members magically appeared back out of the woods and we picked up 3-new-recruits and went from running 15-18 -> 20-23; but I know that we’re going to balance out and dip back below 20-members per rally because that’s just the way it goes.

BAHAHA w/e y’all were not good enough to win fights in T1. Making excuses and going to the Guild Arena or EOTM simply means you need to get good!

I don’t think you understand how the current meta works.

Lord of Rings.5371:

If WvW is currently structured for fun,

Why would someone feel the following?

Packit.8576:

Feel like the main issue with recruiting is the pool to recruit from just keeps getting smaller

See this response above: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Is-your-guild-dying/first#post6574398

ColdHuh.6785:

Its funny how Anet doesnt realise that such things escalate very quickly.. Wvw players are leaving, so what casual wvw like me do? I join one of the maps, roam but takes too much time to meet anybody, very often no tags so I cant really zerg. After 1-2 minutes trying to figure out why I am still making circles in this empty area I just alt+f4. Few days like this and I start wonder why i even play “wooorld versus woooorld” when there are few people most of the time. When more people leave, you have less opponents to fight. The most important “content” in wvw are players, if you lose them, you lose everything and right now i think that the avalanche of leaving players is too big to be stopped.

Find and join a guild.

SniffyCube.6107:

This post is just letting people know that it’s possible to start from scratch or come back from the brink. It’s up to people to step up and put up that dorito. Don’t be afraid to jump out there even if you’re wiping. Get to know people and keep at it.

I agree with you, but I’d also like to add an aspect of this that I mentioned in a past post: the game doesn’t really differentiate between or incentivizing players playing WvW together as a guild and players “pugging it”, which IMHO makes for an added barrier for guild recruitment. (Along with the obvious one of mega-server.)

Edit: Look, perfect example. I read this guy after I posted here. Why is he not joining any WvW guilds? Having a WvW guild to lean on would solve half his problems, but game doesn’t clue people in too well about it.

Lord of Rings.5371:

If WvW is for fun,

then maybe someone just missed the whole point.

What?

A lot of competitive minded players find it fun to play to win. It sounds though like you are saying they missed the point.

And consider that for the amount of time certain players spend playing WvW without being “hardcore”, they definitely have had the time to invest into learning how to play to not be defeated easily. I don’t believe there’s the clear correlation you’re trying to make about time and effort spent. Time spent doesn’t always translate into results and can even have a negative impact IMHO.

A year ago I joined a guild that then one month later started having trouble with rally attendance. Because rallies were scheduled pretty much every day, there was less focus from members regarding which days they will show up to play. People have real life schedules, etc. That lead to rallies being hit or miss with numbers and group comp which started to frustrate everyone. So as a guild we figured out which days worked best for the most people and reduced the number of rallies: two “esports” and one “theme/fun” night a week. It also reduced the “workload” for officers to review video, see where we could improve, etc. Guild nearly doubled in size after that and is still playing a year later.

Kovu.7560:

Mag’s NA isn’t any more “stacked” than JQ’s or FA’s, or at least not with the previous set of links.

You misunderstand. Mag is a Full server. FA is not, which is why it keeps getting a link. Where are all these Mag players do you wonder?

Kovu.7560:

morrolan.9608:

Kovu.7560:

No link for Maguuma to cover those offhours and two links for TC. Kind of odd.

I very much doubt they take that into consideration.

Perhaps, but they should.

~ Kovu

It wouldn’t lead to any more balance though since matches can be won by coverage. It would just be rewarding servers that stack to blob in one specific timezone with the idea that Anet will provide the coverage to ensure match win.

Subversion.2580:

Truth be told, I wouldn’t change that much. The original conception of WvW still works to a degree, it has just been grossly underdeveloped, malbalanced and left to rot for too long – so long that the developers seem to have lost perspective on the concept.

The original concept…

WvW was meant to be uneven in terms of population. This unevenness was supposed to be balanced through map design, (and possibly Orb mechanic). Moving from matches made by rank to matches made by a roll that randomized the ratings upset that balance IMHO. Right now, a stronger population team could get Red and be given an advantage via the maps that was originally meant for a weaker team.

I think WvW needs to go back to that somehow so that map design acts once again as part of the population balance and a different solution made to address stale match-ups. Maybe something like returning to match-making by rank; if your team gets 1st you gain a single rank (not necessarily tier), if your team comes 2nd no change in your rank, and 3rd place team loses a rank.

Friend of mine posted these awhile ago.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/NEED-more-commander-tag-colors-please/page/2#post6129142

Would prefer states just drop Daylight Savings to begin with.

These matches are so even and balanced!

Scoring won’t change PvD.

No one knows where ahead of time, but based on past linkings they could be linked to a Very High server in T2.

Xenesis.6389:

Besides of which there aren’t even 3 equal servers to dump into t1 by themselves.

Well, we know how they did against rank 1 BG with a weaker rank 3 TC semi-recently before no one wanted to be in T1 anymore and either quit playing or transferred.

morrolan.9608:

Are we not then allowed to discuss why some match ups have occurred or the matchmaking process itself?

There was a thread about a month ago that did discuss this very thing and it got closed as a match-up thread.

Whenever Anet has buffed defense, players have needed to bring bigger blobs on offense to counter. Think of it as power creep for siege wars and never wish for it again.

Will Anet be allowed to buy guilds to transfer over?

Raven.9603:

the reasoning is “to help build the reputation among guilds who defend, and to foster community between guilds”.
…
Without this, guild relationships are fickle and its all just a WvW Karma train.

The game does very little to promote the differentiation of guild play from non-guild play, agreed. And when you try to talk about it, other posters think you are asking for “gvg battlegrounds”.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I still see plenty of small scale and many of them are guilds. The problem is that they no longer seek to attack similar sized groups, to test their metal against larger sized groups or to see if they can snipe an objective while the enemy isn’t looking.

Either they’re ganking solos or they’re running from blobs.

There are two reasons for this:

• HoT power creep made having one or two extra players a big difference.
• Automatic upgrades on objectives and powerful defensive upgrades.

In moving through the tiers, I found more small scale guilds willing to attack in the mid-tiers while also having the larger zerg fights. This made the mid-tiers far more fun to fight in. Addressing the reasons behind why would be a step for Anet to take towards encouraging more guild-centric play in all tiers.

Automatic upgrades and things like emergency waypoints or watch towers have made taking anything without a blob nearly impossible.

Yes, pretty much, although that occurs for “defended” objectives. Obviously stuff gets taken also through a few guys doing “PvDoor”. The offense/defense balance was definitely modified and not necessarily for the better. Anet did tone down defense after the desert bl beta (I discussed this in depth in a long post about the long siege under the archived borderlands beta test forum). There’s also a way old discussion on this forum about how the sizes of blobs increased when the damage to arrow carts was buffed.

Now on to the subject of GvG instead of GvP (guild versus pug).

I’ve already addressed the fact that there are more than a couple options for guilds to challenge each other without (or with little) outside interference.

Having more options for guilds would be cool, but I think improving on the ones we have would be a better choice rather than exclusion (meaning, “NO PUGS ALLOWED”, which seems to be the environment that you want).

Guilds taking themselves out of WvW to challenge each other via the existing options is not WvW though. I’ll repeat, not every guild is looking to be esports and there are still guilds in this game that enjoy so-called “open field” fights against both pug groups and guild groups and don’t mind having pugs follow. I’m not looking to exclude pugs. Maybe you got that from Sabull’s thread, but read it carefully. I took away from it the idea about maintaining a balance between the number of guilds and “others” on a map as one way to “improve WvW”. He said WvW should be more like GvG, meaning guilds actually fighting each other, not ganking solos or running away from blobs.

I didn’t want to go back through forum history and compile suggestions players made in the past about how to encourage guild-centric play, but another old suggestion was for Anet to address the removal of home server town chat when mega-server was introduced. That change greatly crippled WvW guilds’ ability to recruit and rally everyone on a server for WvW.