Guild Wars 2

Julie Yann.5379:

SoR and SoM area reall the only ones you need to maintain a decent crit chance. If you have some precision in you build to begin with you should have no problem getting 80% (100% on sword if you trait blademaster) and the shield trait also works for the Sword 5 which gives you another source of reflects and might.

Probably true, but the other signets might be more optimal than the other choices given where he’ll be playing and the rest of the selections. Doly to toughen him up a bit and for stability if he really needs it, and maybe might or stamina.

One thing I haven’t checked is if the Might Signet effect from Signet Mastery procs the +100 Precision bonus when you hit someone below the threshold. Anyone know?

Dragon.6894:

It would be nice if Signet Mastery in Arms get change with Quick Breathing in Tactics.
(

…why?

Cygnus.6903:

This is the thing, you would go Furious because the other two traits just don’t give you anything really. Whereas more adrenaline usually doesn’t hurt.

Now if they would give power builds just a little bit more incentive to pick Furious, the traitline would actually be great for certain power builds (Mace, Sword, even Hammer).

I also ran both Arms and Strength thusfar, and trust me when I say Arms does not compare well to Strength in terms of damage. Like Sebrent said, the raw damage modifiers from Strength are incredible.

I agree with everything you say here. Combine Strength and Arms for fun and profit though.

I’m dropping Arms for tonight’s tests though. I’ll either stick with Str-Def-Disc, or experiment with more sustainable builds. I bunch of guildies and I were bashing each other around last night and sustainable builds won pretty much every time… 1v1s, 2v2s, and 3v3s. That was true of warriors, rangers, and engies, anyway.

No idea how well that will translate in wvw, but I think it should for small group stuff.

EnderzShadow.2506:

Rush is a joke now… I feel like a speed walker.

Then consider yourself OP!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e6h4zLC5U8

Definitely zerker, since condi gear will do nothing for your axe and sword’s a viable zerk weapon through sword 3 and 4.

Consider taking Great Fortitude instead of Body Blow for that build since you really only have one stun (plus any utilities), so you may as well get the vitality.

As an alternative to strength, given your choice of weapons, you could replace it with Arms – Signet Mastery, Blademster, and Furious.

Or, hey, if you’re taking Blademaster, you could always go Axe+Sw/Sw+Sh and take Dual wielding. Use your Axe+Sw to do most of your damage, then use your sword shield for a quick burst if you need it or to escape to some place warm and cozy or just have out of combat mobility.

Pack a bunch of signets on there and use them (even hit Healing Signet before walking into a fight), and you’ll have really high crit chance from the Signet Mastery buff (you could easily maintain a +500 precision bonus).

As mentioned, you’ll be able to get away with a lot in casual pve, so go with what seems the most fun.

It would be pretty baller, but I don’t see it ever being introduced as a general passive immunity. Maybe limited immunity on activation of certain skills or while a certain weapon was out (like torch, thematically).

Without the need for FH, viable builds would be possible without Discipline. Moreover, why in the world would you be in favour of a required line?

Toxsa.2701:

I did not say ranger get nerfed, I said they lost their damage modifier, meaning the damage of is actually lower than before, just way more tools/utilities to use at our advantages now. That guy is arguing about the damage modifier thingy, so I’m just using the same damage modifier thing to refute him. But this is getting off-topic though so I’ll leave it at that.

The guy was lamenting a change that he felt would deprive him of a damage modifier that was just added, and he used a ranger trait as a point of comparison. A trait he’d already acknowledged he misunderstood before you posted.

Seriously, wth, man?

Kamikazi.5380:

…every War should take Discipline anyway.

What possible argument could you have to support the above? Why should there be a mandatory trait line for any class?

In that case, you could get away with just about anything. Start with the weapon you like best and trait for it, then go from there.

I tend to run as high damage as I can and with a mind to how I take out people trying to kill me, which means full zerk, along with the power and discipline lines.

The new shield trait on the Defense line is fantastic and, if you like to run a mace with it then your #2 skill will reflect projectiles in addition to shield 5. They’ll also give you might and grant retaliation.

Berserker’s Power in the Strength line is awesome for damage or, if you want to take advantage of all the interrupts from mace and shield, you could take Distracting Strikes provided you’re running condi gear (take Body Blow too). I don’t personally know if confusion works well in pve, but you could get crazy stacks on there, especially if you take physical skills.

If you’re willing to run sword, you could do a slightly different version of the standard 0/0/6/6/6 build. It would have you use longbow/sword+shield (the shield is the unusual choice), and trait into shouts. You’ll help keep your friends alive, and your damage beyond gear will come from might stacking (FGJ, SoR or Banner, also Combustive Shot+Arcing Arrow+any blast finishers your friends have+Savage Leap through the field to maintain Fire Shield, which will get those might stacks going.

Axe could work with 6/x/x/0/6 pretty well. Making sure you choose Berserker’s Power and not Axe Mastery, you could then pick up Signet Mastery by going the Arms route and getting lots and lots of crit damage, or you could take Shield Master and get better sustain through the Defense line.

But, yeah, you’ll have a lot of give to find what you enjoy most if you’re doing pve content with your friends. Fun should rule the day.

Toxsa.2701:

I can safely tell you that Ranger is the only class that loses MOST OF THE DAMAGE MODIFIER post patch.

1. Peak Strength 10%gone
2. Eagle Eye 5% gone
3. Flanking Strike nerf,
4. Nature strength GONE (7% toughness conversion to power)

Other classes, like thieves, not only get WAY MORE DAMAGE MODIFIER, but also has new tool like CONVERT PRECISION TO FEROCITY (it literally increases crit damage by 13%!).

Try again plz.

The beat on the street is power rangers got hugely buffed. I don’t play ranger, so can’t comment, but people who main it and do it well seem to disagree with you….

To them I say, good luck, enjoy, and hopefully the nerf bat doesn’t hit you (unless you have it coming).

Aersoth.9247:

I just recently got back into the game so I don’t know too much when it comes to what works together well or roles or anything.

but for weapons, I really like axe / mace / shield / longbow. I’m not too big of a fan of 2h weapons and I can’t really put my finger on why.

edit: currently i’m using Healing Signet – FGJ – OMM – BoD – SoR

Are you mostly playing in general pve content or somewhere else (like wvw or pvp, or even pve dungeon groups)?

Sure there are. What area of the game to you play and what weapons would you like? Also, is there a particular role or style you want to play?

66006 or 60606 using greatsword as your secondary set for might stacking, mobility and burst.

Trait into signets for the first route, or trait shield for the second route.

Axe or mace, whichever you prefer.

Trait Heightened Focus and Berserker Power.

Profit.

@darkaheart
What offhand set are you running with your 66006 setup?

I was using dual swords for the mobility, block, and burst. I thought I’d get more out of Flurry to set up the gs, but immobilize seems almost useless with all the condi clears, resistance, and effects that clear it or kill the duration.

Maybe, but even he commented on it and couldn’t figure it out.

Being able to trait it with quickness plus all the damage increases makes it a viable high risk/reward skill again.

No further buffs necessary, imo.

I was dueling a medi guard last night to test some things out, and he did that immobilizing move that they do to set up the burst. I had WS traited so figured I’d be fine but, though the imob was lifted when I used a movement skill, I stayed in place.

Any idea if that’s a bug or the way it’s supposed to be?

The skill puts an extra visual on me but I didn’t see an extra status effect our anything in the description that would explain what was happening.

Were you running h/gs with the arms line? Have to admit I hadn’t thought of that.

I wouldn’t dare take DotE over Brawler’s without CI though. A cleansing sigil and 6s of resistance will only take you so far!

I also found Savage Leap to be the only one that seemed to be normal. I’m guessing they slowed down runs but left leaps alone.

Yeah, the grandmaster choices aren’t great for the direct damage builds I strung together, but I went with Furious for the adren gain because I didn’t trait Defense/CI when I was in arms.

Signet Mastery is the real star of that line. No joke, I actually ran a signet warrior last night (4 signets plus bull’s) and was doing unreal damage, but was thin on sustain and error margin.

Again, though, you have plenty of usable builds for dungeon runs and other pve content. The issue you’re having is the people you’re grouping up with want to be as fast as possible.

Given the pve areas are largely static (same baddies, same ai, etc) there will always be a fastest party comp. It’s just math. Even if warriors could achieve the highest dps in the game, there would still be a stronger case to run at least one PS build unless the opportunity cost was less having an ele handle the might stacking.

I’m 100% with you in that you can and should play whatever you find most fun, but you’ll have to find people who aren’t so focused on what’s optional to play with.

This isn’t a balance problem, it’s a question of contribution to groups that want to clear dungeons as quickly as possible. To do what you want would throw things way out of balance in the rest of the game.

You can absolutely use whatever weapon set you want, but you’ll have to find groups that aren’t as concerned about speed. Be thankful you at least have a place in speed groups… not all classes are so fortunate.

Sebrent.3625:

The only reason that was brought up was because I think there could be some balance work required there if Fast Hands was baseline.

Is it clearer now?

I’m just not clear why any balancing even might be required if FH is made baseline vs leaving it how it is. The interaction with sigils remains constant.

Juba.8406:

Still why would i bother with limiting my runes options when i could simply just pick DISC ? and get not only WS but a bunch of very great traits ?

Even if FH was made baseline, DISC will be picked you will be shooting yourself in the foot for not picking it, DISC is simply a heavy trait line need to be lighten up a bit.

The first step to lighten that line after making FH baseline is WS removed from there, the irony currently that the meta builds has no needs for WS, yet they get it for free, But a STR warrior relies on mobility more than anything else, Then a STR warrior could run STR-ARMS-DEF and sets the base right for a possible STR-SPEC-DEF when HoT get released.

That’s the thing, you would (ideally) only do it when there was an advantage for you to do it. Warrior Sprint gives a benefit that’s achievable through a number of paths, and it’s up to you to figure out the best path for you to get that benefit (i.e. the path with the lowest opportunity cost for you).

If Discipline is the best path for you, then that’s the one you should take. If, for example, WS was moved to Strength as you suggested, it would be better for you because you’re taking the line anyway and you’ve placed it in competition with traits that aren’t that amazing for you anyway. This frees you up to gear exactly how you want for another purpose (dps, defense, whatever) and to use your freed up trait line for a more optimal purpose. You may still choose Discipline though, since its value to burst-oriented builds is still very high.

But moving it to Strength doesn’t help people who’d rather take Defense over Strength for their builds. Even if they were taking Tactics, it doesn’t mean they wanted to pack or trait a warhorn. So moving WS there comes at their expense, and there’s nothing, as far as I know, that makes the builds I (and I’m assuming you) like to run more deserving of WS, especially when there are other paths to gain speed.

I think most, if not all, of the classes have speed boosts of some sort now, and they all have to make trade-offs to get them. They also have access to gear to improve their speed if they feel it’s necessary. What’s the case that supports warriors being different in this regard and have it baselined?

fwiw, I’d be willing to build outside of Discipline if FH wasn’t there and without any other changes being made to the Discipline line. I don’t find it too weighted with WS in there personally.

Sebrent, you’re contradicting yourself. You’ve said repeatedly that warriors are balanced with FH, which is why making it baseline isn’t that big of a deal.

Pointing to how the trait works with sigils, and has worked for some time now, doesn’t change the balance you’ve already acknowledged. It’s like saying, “sure, warriors are balanced with Fast Hands, but it has to be toned down because that’s TWICE as fast of a weapon swap than other classes!”

If warriors are balanced now with FH, they’d continue to be balanced tomorrow with FH.

Warriors are fine in wvw and you can easily find a place that works for you there. If you like zerging, then that works. You can also roam with warriors fairly well, depending on your server.

As for the Legendary, there’s nothing anyone can say because it’s basically aesthetics. Greatsword is the only one that gives you choice in that regard, so go look at people carrying them and see which of the three you like best. Twilight is obviously the most expensive to make.

Sebrent.3625:

@Kagamiku:
I agree. I think Warrior is currently balanced more around having Fast Hands than not having it … so it would likely be more work to balance around not having it.

The only bit of “less work” I can see from removing Fast Hands (instead of baselining it) is with on-swap sigils since they are supposed to be balanced for everyone … it’d be easier if there wasn’t a single class that skewed their power.

Except they’re balanced now with the sigils handled exactly as they are with respect to FH.

Juba.8406:

So you wanted every warrior to pick pack runes and traited warhorn so full TACT line ?!

i mentioned this in my post up a TACT warrior defiantly has no needs for Warrior’s Sprint.

Also why should i take pack runes ? the easier path will be to actually pick DISC line :] and be done with it.

Here is a better suggestion :

• Baseline Fast Hands
• Warriors Sprint moved to STR line replacing Building Momentum

Since a Shoutbow or any build that try to bunker points has no need for swiftness but they get it free because it is just there in same lines they trait to, but a STR warrior needs swiftness and have to trait DISC or Pack runes in your case.

Not at all, I gave a couple of ways people could maintain very good swiftness and/or combat mobility without traiting WS. You don’t need Tactics AND Pack Runes to do it (I normally don’t run tactics for roaming, for example), and you could just rely on your weapons if you wanted to (though I wouldn’t want to, personally).

Moving WS to Strength and FH baseline would certainly be convenient for the builds I like to run, but i don’t see how it addresses any class issues, it just makes things more convenient for some builds. Seems to me if WS is so important, you’ve just swapped Discipline for Strength which doesn’t address your core concern.

We’re actually quite fortunate with Pack Runes in that they bring a lot of punch and mobility that compliments damage oriented warriors very well. Traveler and Speed runes more or less replicate WS as it is now (not the new version), but I find them too much of a sacrifice.

At the end of the day, I think we have to keep that in mind. The issue is optimizing within tradeoffs and warriors currently have more ways than most classes to maintain high speed and mobility. That’s why I’m not personally convinced FH and WS are even remotely on the same level from a class viability point of view. WS is just a very good trait, especially the new one, particularly for melee warriors.

I had it the other day too. Seemed laggy for a few secs and then dead. I was running on grass toward south camp in someone’s bl and nobody was around me.

Zin.6170:

Perhaps when it says it activates leap finishers twice, it activates everything about them including damage. So eviscerate would be really good.

Too good. It’d get nerfed within seconds of the first time it was used….

I’m not too worried about it, tbh. I see more fun build possibilities for my warrior in the proposed changes than I have now, and I appreciate that.

True, other classes got more love, but I don’t much care as long as Anet keeps on top of completely out of whack balance issues, and we’ll just have to see how things play out for them to do that. I don’t much care about ranking either as long as each class has valuable contributions to make and aren’t doomed every time they walk into a fight, otherwise, they aren’t fun to play.

My only real disappointment with the warrior changes is the lost opportunity to easily address some core issues (e.g. diversity, dead weapons) and the bizarre decision to strengthen Shoutbow-esque builds.

I’d also hoped making Mending a physical skill would reduce the pressure to take CI (and therefore Defense), but that appears to be off the table at the moment. Brawler’s Recovery, Cleansing Sigil, shouts and/or whatever makes it onto the new trait line and skills may be enough, but it remains to be seen. I’d have to play test in the new system to see about adren building without CI though.

Is he only able to play one rigid build? If so, he has bigger problems than a warrior with lots of cc.

If the expectation is you there should be “one build to rule them all”, then, well, prepare for disappointment.

While I like it for a lot of reasons, the thought of adding another option for people who want to stand on walls, rooftops, or otherwise out of combat to shoot from safety makes me cringe.

I was in ebg yesterday and a pew pew ranger was on the top of a very high cliff just spamming his skills into a big melee from relative safety. Builds like that make me wish magnet, scorpion wire, and mesmer focus 4 had a range of 1500 feet… against those builds only. >(

Still good, imo (certainly not horrible), but I’d likely choose the active as well.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Fands hands is powerfull trait. Incredible powerfull with some swap sigils. That + strong warrior thoughness, hp, invul, stability etc = real powerfull. Not to be rude but making that baseline +20 extra traits points to spend and spend all the 90 in another line then you should (discipline for fast hands) would make a 110 traits strong builds.

Everyone who thinks Illusionary persona is even partly as good as fast hands is totally mistaken. Also it’s a superior strong melee<>range switche. 10 seconds in most fights is to long to stay in melee or range. If it happens you are locked 3-7 secs to long in one of them. With fast hands this next to never happens. You can switch like a dancer. That alone makes it incredible value, let alone the swap sigil advantage. Sure engie gets also fast swap BUT only has 1 weapon (same as engie). Warrior is only prof that can abuse 4 sigils but super fast weapon swap. That alone uniqueness + other warrior advantages would simply make it overpowered.

If this trait is so powerfull to you just take it. It’s minor for god sake! Doesn’t even remove your choices! But don’t expect this superior powerfull minor AND 90 points to spend in completely different trees. That would mean you basically only miss 1 trait line… of the 5. To powerfull. You want an over the top of the line build, but you know it’s op, you still wish it. Just don’t If anything, this is good for you guys cause it warrants less 50% nerfs.

There are a few things you have to consider:

First, practically all warriors already run FH now, certainly in pvp but in pve too. Despite this, warriors aren’t overpowered in relation to other classes regardless of how powerful FH is and the benefit it brings with respect to sigils. Meaning, the fact that FH is powerful isn’t an argument against making FH baseline because the class has already been balanced around all warriors running it.

Second, once the new trait system is in place, warriors will have to sink 1/3 of their traits into Discipline in order to maintain this balance. Discipline is a very good line in and of itself, but the inclusion of FH in it does nothing but reduce the diversity of warriors of all types (condi, bunker, dps, whatever) because all of them will have to trait Discipline to be viable.

Third, if freeing all warriors from the need to trait Discipline means some overpowered builds will be possible, then changes should be made to nerf those specific builds to restore balance. No question.

Fourth, nobody should be in favour of limited build diversity for the builds they play or the builds they play against. It just makes the game stale and boring. Making FH baseline contributes relatively little to power creep for the class, arguably less than making IP baseline did for Mesmers. Still, making them both baseline is the right thing to do, and the justification for each stands on its own merits.

I’m with Purple. Even if you moved the might on crit off of FG, gs would still be the most efficient weapon for generating might through 100b and whirlwind, so the demand would still be to use a gs and nothing changes except you’ve bumped out a trait on the strength line.

PS doesn’t “lock” you into strength and gs, that’s just the best path to squeeze the most amount of might out of the trait. Anet’s actually adding a few additional ways to generate might in the new traits that would sync with PS, it’s just that without gs PS is less valuable than competing traits.

This isn’t a class or trait issue, it’s a personal choice and pve meta issue.

Get more stability and you should be laughing. There’s no quick dps burst on either of those weapons sets, which means denying the control that’s keeping you from doing damage and setting up the warrior’s big hits is the key.

Don’t use your stun breaks unless the hammer’s out as it has the most damaging hits. If you see the hammer coming way back behind his head, that’s Backbreaker and a good time to use a stun break.

Keep in mind the build is also putting perma weakness on you with lots of opportunity to reapply through Hammer 2 and Mace auto, which effectively drops your damage by 25% (50% chance to do 50% less damage).

Another tactic would be to kite. I don’t have a Guardian and I understand ranged is weak, but if there’s a way for you to keep him crippled and constantly needing to run to you, do it. That build doesn’t have a lot of ways to close gaps.

Toxsa.2701:

LOL. Epidemic Bond is a horrible cleanse mind you. By the time it helps you get rid of immobilize you’re already dead. Clearly another clueless Warrior folk who has no idea how other classes are like. CI is 10 times better than EB. Go ask that in ranger’s forum or PVP forum and everyone will agree.

Ignoring for a moment that you’re completely out to lunch on Fast Hands, what’s bad about Empathic Bond. I don’t have ranger (one of two classes I don’t have), but it looks alright to me.

CI is an excellent cleanse, and on paper EB seems just behind it. CI has the advantage of a shorter cd and the ability to choose when to use it (which will be less important post changes). EB seems to have the advantage of not having to think about it, no need to balance best time to clear against best time to burst, no qualifying criteria (i.e. no equivalent to adren build), and no chance of missing.

What makes it horrible?

Wilderness Knowledge, it’s direct competitor, doesn’t look bad either.

How is it that Toxsa thinks making the case that warriors should have FH baseline requires us to argue other classes shouldn’t have other things baseline? Most of us have already said we support mesmers getting IP baselined.

Obviously, the case for any proposal has to be made on its own merits. Anet explained their rationale for making IP baseline and it obviously applies to FH too. If he wants to make the case that the argument also applies to other classes, what does that have to do with the FH proposal? Nothing.

Toxsa.2701:

Choppy.4183:

diversity.

As for fast hands, do you have an argument as to why it shouldn’t be baseline for warriors that goes beyond jealousy and sour grapes?

Hey, I change my mind. Instead of trying to persuade you guys, I decide to just buff all other classes to compensate each of the buffs anyone received. If everyone is buffed, then there’d be balance eventually. That’s why we should start forming a baseline wish list. If you’re disagreeing with me, it only shows that you’re the jealous one who doesn’t want good things happened to other classes :P.

So I’ll take that as a no to my question, and I guess we can also conclude you’re not able to keep up with the conversation. Good to know.

Toxsa.2701:

snip

So you disagree with the argument they used to give Mesmers IP. That’s fine, but some of us don’t and we’re actually happy Mesmers received the trait.

Things like not enough Condi clear on a Ranger would be better handled by adding additional traits on other lines, skills, and pretty mechanics that reduce pressure on the trait path for rangers than making Condi management bsseline. I’d certainly support that of Condi management was coming ranger diversity.

As for fast hands, do you have an argument as to why it shouldn’t be baseline for warriors that goes beyond jealousy and sour grapes?

Agreed. Fixed a problem I hadn’t even realize existed, but a good move nonetheless.

Josh Davis.6015:

Sorry, I must have accidentally replied to this thread.

Let me know if anyone wants to converse in a civil manner.

Appreciate you taking the time to update us, Josh. Some people are a bit overwrought about some of the announced changes, but I’m sure most of us recognize that more information and dialogue are vastly superior to QQ and pvf.

Yup, but I’d be surprised if you had 3200 toughness… it doesn’t increase your armor, just your toughness.

Though, keep in mind you’ll only have 1000 toughness (so +100 toughness from the trait) if you’re running full zerk. Might make sets like Rabid and Knights more interesting, though.

Spartacus.3192:

I have Level 80 guard and warrior and let me say, despite all the crying on here, Warriors did not get as kittened as guards did. Lets just say between the two, I will be maining warrior still.
.

Really? Poor fellas… I was just starting to think their days as a one dimensional Inferiorbot were over. Why they gotta kick a brother when he was just getting up?

YOU’RE TEARING ME APART, ANET! Oh, hi Mark.

I wonder when the cleansing will occur. If immediately on activation, opponents will have a much harder time using blinds, chills, immobilizes, etc. to stop an impending Eviscerate or Earthshaker.

Agree with OP. Why remove an avenue of skilled play by making removals and conversions random? It seems at odds with the notion of counter play, which is a very good goal you’ve expressed with other recent changes.

Please stick with some sort of order to the removal/conversion mechanism, whether it’s what’s in place now or something else, if you feel what’s there now isn’t sufficient. It brings more depth to the game without erecting any sort of skill wall for newer players.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Of course, the randomized factor to it now could screw you as much as it could help you out. Maybe instead of removing that 20s immob that just came in, you get the 1 stack of bleed you took 10 seconds ago and that was just about to expire.

That’s just it. Even if the existing system is unsatisfactory for the reasons you cited, there is still an order that supports counter play whereas randomness doesn’t.

I’m not saying it’s broken anything, or that condis will be OP because of it (still have to see how important Resistance becomes), but it does seem at odds with the notion of counter play, which was the justification for the stability (and other) changes.

It’s weird that they randomized condi and boon removal, given the frequently expressed objective of increasing counter play. Leaving them as they are better supports that goal.