Guild Wars 2

BOSSMAN.2647:

I’m using shout build called “Sonic Boon” and I’m level 42 in fractals.

I have to say it has saved my back side many times when my health was low and even tho the shouts heal me about 1300 its enough to keep me alive to pop my healing surge.

Running 3 shout utilities give just under 4000 heal, its like having healing signet as a bonus.

Also remember this if you don’t want to use the runes for extra boon durations then I would use superior rune of the soldier as the 6th rune removes a condition and with SIO you with remove 2 and this will help your party even more.

Sonic boon past 35? I thought those minor burst heals were worthless by now.
I figure that by the higher levels, you should have all the dungeons relatively figured out… which means a well-timed Endure pain or a few dodges would mitigate a hell of a lot of more damage than shout heals… although…
I like the idea of having an insane amount of condition removal.

I’m running 25/25/0/20 (reverted to this again) w/ Full Knight (zerker gloves) w/ ruby and Full Zerker ascended. I always have Signet of Stamina on my bar. Besides that, I’ll mix between Shake it Off, Endure Pain, and For Great Justice.

I really wish that there would be a viable support build at higher levels.

Does anyone use a shout build in Fractals?
If so, how is it and how well do you do?
What level Fractals?

I’ve been tinkering around trying to find some sort of balance that will let me still dish a respectable balance and bring heal that is useful to the team. So far, I can’t find any.
I find that with every level, it becomes more about focusing the crap out of the mob before it can do anything to you.

Do any of you guys have experience running a healing/banner/shout/warhorn/whatever build to effective success in higher level Fractals?

Wait… for… it…

Oh, LOOK! Still no charts!

Oglaf.1074:

You do gain some sweet Crit Damage from the Trait line though.

Yea, that’s true T__T

I honestly don’t find Eviscerate useful in FoTM
I hate being down on crit and %dam for that long as well…
and I have to sacrifice other traits to get that.

Dedphyre.2650:

The difference is using power as damage which slightly over values power and undervalues damage%. The most accurate would be power times the averaged attack chain weapon modifier.

As to the crit damage vs. Damage% at 100% crit chance crit damage will be worth half as much as damage% and the less crit you have the worse the ratio gets.

So… what does that mean about his formula…?

Oh look, still no charts.

ChaosDoom.8459:

Hi CookMETender, nice discussion with Phira on these 2 builds. IMO, I would go for 30/25/0/0/15 simply due to 1 reason.

I can use Axe Mastery and Slashing Power which benefit both Axe and GS. Of course Phira’s calculation point out differently which it would take build 1 to have 5 boons to even out the damage compared to build 2. For me, I would say both you and Phira to each of his own.

That amount of damage will not offset the benefit of having 10% GS damage and 10% Axe Crit damage. That’s the only reason.

Thank you to both you and Phira for these calculations. It made me see warrior build in a different light cheers.

Thank you for the comment
and I’m thankful for the discussion with Phira too.
Really helped me understand each build much better hehe

Phira.3970:

The formula is from gw2wiki though I derived the formula myself

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_hit

Expected damage = Base damage * ((0.50 + (Critical Damage / 100)) * (Critical Chance / 100) + 1)

I combined ^ with another formula

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision

rounded down((precision – 822) / 21) = base crit. chance

So then:

Expected damage = Base damage * ((0.50 + (Critical Damage / 100)) * (((precision – 822) / 21) / 100) + 1)

In most of my scenarios, I used 3000 power as base damage, 75% crit chance (to calculate more precision) or 100% crit chance (calculate +crit. dmg vs. +dmg%), 150% base crit dmg.

The formula does not calculate condition damage, condition duration, boon duration, etc.. I could calculate those but it would make the formula 2-3x longer for a longer wall of text that people already don’t understand with just raw damage.

And I don’t know about build sites. I don’t use them.

---

Hmmm… I"ll have to see if I can verify your formula.
If I can, then I’ll use your build, but from my experience… Wiki leaves out so much information lol

Phira.3970:

“Moreover, you do realize that each boon is 2% damage right?”

Yes I do, try reading my OP.

“So, where did you get 5 and 6 from.
From your strange math? "

I erased it because it looks like a wall of text. But here you go:

[This is 30/25/0/0/15 version] 3050*(1+((.5+.15)*1))=5032.5

VS.

[This is Empowered version] (3000*(1+((.5+0)*1)))1.06=4770

Let me explain here. Here, we have +100% crit rate, +3000 power, 150% crit dmg as base stats. 1.06 means +6% dmg from boons.

Here’s 8% dmg from boons with 4 boons

(3000*(1+((.5+0)1)))1.08=4860

Here’s 5 boons

(3000*(1+((.5+0)1)))1.1=4950

Here’s 6 boons

(3000*(1+((.5+0)1)))1.12=5040

Finally it breaks nearly even at between 5-6 boons as 30/25/0/0/15 is 5032.5.

And yes I said +dmg% is the best stats by far in the game, but I did say you want it in a ratio of about 2/3 to crit dmg in my OP.
——

Skip to 25 seconds. Here are warriors traited to my standards. Most of us do not have ascended gears.

4x 30/25/0/0/15 Axe Warriors, 1x 30/30/0/0/10 Mesmer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoouSccStME

Note we could do this a lot faster. This was recorded in the middle of our farm run meaning we are set up to complete CoF in a way that yields the most money, not in the shortest amount of time. The first part is just because we are killing too fast that Time Warp does not recharge in time.

Thank you for the math, but I am curious as to how you got that formula and why it does not match with any build sites 0-0

First build is 25/25/0/10/10
(What I am now proposing since we are using the “golden rule.”)
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|7.1g.h2.c.1g.h1|4.1g.h1|1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1g.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d19.3s.d19.2s.d13.2s.d13|p58.p56.0.a6.a5|54.7|0.0.0.0.0|e

Second build is 30/25/0/0/15
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|7.1g.h2.c.1g.h1|4.1g.h1|1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1g.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d19.3s.d19.2s.d13.2s.d13|u58a.p56.0.0.f5|54.7|0.0.0.0.0|e

3% damage increase gives about 325 effective power at these power levels.
This is estimated data (utilizing the build formula, a formula that is much more in-depth and solid than your quick math that does not account for duration).
2% would give about 210 power.

Each boon provides 2% damage (roughly 210 power increasing as overall power increases).
The difference in effective power of these builds, not including the dam from boons, is about 500. You would need 2 fully maintained boons and 1 that you can maintain 50 of the time for these builds to equalize. Any more than 3 makes the first more favorable.

Fury and Might can be permanently maintained.
Swiftness more than 50% of the time (10% boon duration, remember).
10% boon duration also makes all boons last longer which allows greater stacks of might, albeit little.

So, where did you get 5 and 6 from.
From your strange math?
Builds are equal in strength with little to no difference.
The minute you join a part, the 25/25/0/10/10 becomes superior.

Hey Warrior forum, what do you think is better?

First build is 25/25/0/10/10
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|7.1g.h2.c.1g.h1|4.1g.h1|1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1g.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d19.3s.d19.2s.d13.2s.d13|p58.p56.0.a6.a5|54.7|0.0.0.0.0|e

Second build is 30/25/0/0/15
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|7.1g.h2.c.1g.h1|4.1g.h1|1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1g.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d19.3s.d19.2s.d13.2s.d13|u58a.p56.0.0.f5|54.7|0.0.0.0.0|e

3% damage increase gives about 325 effective power at these power levels.
This is estimated data (utilizing the build formula).
2% would give about 210 power.

Each boon provides 2% damage (roughly 210 power increasing as overall power increases).
The difference in effective power of these builds, not including the dam from boons, is about 500. You would need 2 fully maintained boons and 1 that you can maintain 50 of the time for these builds to equalize. Any more than 3 makes the first more favorable.

Fury and Might can be permanently maintained.
Swiftness more than 50% of the time (10% boon duration, remember).
10% boon duration also makes all boons last longer which allows greater stacks of might, albeit little.

What do you guys think?
I think build 1 is better.

Phira.3970:

CookMETEnder.7582:

Phira.3970:

So under your strange situation of where you seem to be guaranteed 10s of Fury.

0 Seconds – Furious Reaction + Signet of Rage + For Great Justice all at the same time
for 48 seconds.
25 seconds – For Great Justice, 56 seconds of Fury
30 seconds – Furious Reaction CD and triggers again 66 seconds.

So then my build does have perma-fury.

I lose nothing, and I gain +5% crit dmg and 50 power.

But even before that, just to even say my builds 5% crit dmg and 50 power VS. your +20% crit. chance is faulty logic as you’re acting like you are the only one who has Fury. If I’m not mistaken, just about every Warrior build runs Signet of Rage which provides Fury. If not, then or Battle Standard or FgJ, etc… grant fury. I only mentioned up the strange situation of “perma-fury” because you brought it up and the strange logic that “because I have perma-fury and you do not, you are losing +20% crit. chance.” is plain strange logic as nearly every Warrior has fury.

I’m trying to be as nice as possible, but I’m starting to believe that you’re simply trying to win an argument rather than actually learn anything.

Strange situation. What is strange about taking 10% of your HP in damage?
That’s possibly one of the most common possibilities, yet not a reliable one which is why it is simply a cover for the 2s. I often don’t even need it. You’re argument about not having perma-fury in my previous was based on 2s which is covered by… almost anything… especially in CoF.

Also, I don’t understand why, even though I have mentioned it over and over, you continue to say 50 power and disregard swiftness (which is actually very useful) but, more importantly, the might stack that SoR gives?

Finally, if you’re perfect 66s Fury did work (whereas I simply introduced it as a means for the 2s gap you seemingly needed to fill in order for my claim of perma-fury to be accurate) then both of our builds would be useless.

As for you, I’ve already proved in math that 30/25/0/0/15 is > 25/25/0/10/10. I’ll just copy paste.

[This is 30/25/0/0/15 version] 3050*(1+((.5+.15)*1))=5032.5

VS.

[This is Empowered version] (3000*(1+((.5+0)*1)))1.1=4770

You would need approximately 5 to 6 boons to break even with my set up.

---

“Also, I don’t understand why, even though I have mentioned it over and over, you continue to say 50 power and disregard swiftness (which is actually very useful) but, more importantly, the might stack that SoR gives?”

Use the golden rule for consistency. If you get SoR, then I get SoR. So as I mentioned over and over, the gain of swiftness and might is illusory because I get it too. Once again, same strange logic where you think you’re the only one getting Fury, but now you think you’re the only one getting SoR. You’re only seeing one side of the equation instead of the whole picture. In math, whatever you do to one side of the equation you do to another. Follow this golden rule pl0x.

I’m sorry, but I don’t understand your math at all.
1. You completely disregard the 10% boon duration which allows you maintain higher amounts of stacks of might. You act as if what happens on paper is translated exactly to the game. According to your formula, boon durations should not be calculated.
Weird math.
Moreover, you do realize that each boon is 2% damage right?
Think you should look over your math again, buddy.

2. Golden Rule of Consistency?
I seriously think you need to learn to pay attention. Consistency across two separate trait builds?
Sure, 66s and 66s matches, but we were comparing a 20% quicker signet VS. non-traited signet. Then we compared one were you would gain 66s of Fury; however, in doing so, both builds maintain max fury in which case it is better to stack %damage, as You emphasize.. yet you choose critical damage rather hypocritically.

I acknowledged that if we both, indeed, traited Furious Reaction, then both could reach 66s of fury with your little golden consistency rule. Then, the comparison goes between our builds VS. a 10/10 ending build.

Are you trying to tell me that 5% crit damage is greater than 10% boon duration (which implies longer might stack nullifying a measly 50power), not to mention the longer Fury and other boons. A warrior can maintain Might and Fury. That’s 4% damage vs. 5% critical damage. Add on swiftness from SoR untraited and you’re looking at an extra 2% a little over half-time = 5% overall. Add in your groups buffs and you’re easily sitting at 8% full-time, even greater.

You mean to tell me that 5% crit damage is greater than 8% damage, even after you stated that %damage is king? Please show me how you work this out.

Do some math that involves everything as well, not only the numbers you want it to. So far, you’ve been quite exclusive with your “math.”

Phira.3970:

So under your strange situation of where you seem to be guaranteed 10s of Fury.

0 Seconds – Furious Reaction + Signet of Rage + For Great Justice all at the same time
for 48 seconds.
25 seconds – For Great Justice, 56 seconds of Fury
30 seconds – Furious Reaction CD and triggers again 66 seconds.

So then my build does have perma-fury.

I lose nothing, and I gain +5% crit dmg and 50 power.

But even before that, just to even say my builds 5% crit dmg and 50 power VS. your +20% crit. chance is faulty logic as you’re acting like you are the only one who has Fury. If I’m not mistaken, just about every Warrior build runs Signet of Rage which provides Fury. If not, then or Battle Standard or FgJ, etc… grant fury. I only mentioned up the strange situation of “perma-fury” because you brought it up and the strange logic that “because I have perma-fury and you do not, you are losing +20% crit. chance.” is plain strange logic as nearly every Warrior has fury.

I’m trying to be as nice as possible, but I’m starting to believe that you’re simply trying to win an argument rather than actually learn anything.

Strange situation. What is strange about taking 10% of your HP in damage?
That’s possibly one of the most common possibilities, yet not a reliable one which is why it is simply a cover for the 2s. I often don’t even need it. You’re argument about not having perma-fury in my previous was based on 2s which is covered by… almost anything… especially in CoF.

Also, I don’t understand why, even though I have mentioned it over and over, you continue to say 50 power and disregard swiftness (which is actually very useful) but, more importantly, the might stack that SoR gives?

Finally, if you’re perfect 66s Fury did work (whereas I simply introduced it as a means for the 2s gap you seemingly needed to fill in order for my claim of perma-fury to be accurate) then both of our builds would be useless.

Assuming the perfect 66 as you stated, 25/25/0/10/10 would, by far, be the most effective build for Axe. As You stated, damage % is the king.
It increases damage by 2% for each unique boon.
Fury Maintained 2%
Might Maintained 2%
Swiftness (1/2 maintain w/ this new build) 2%
Vigor (1/3 maintain) 2%

This is excluding all the boons that a Guardian grants.

So, if we’re going to argue 66s as you claim, then this, by far, outstrips either of our builds. By the way, the timings I calculated are without the 10% boon duration of having 10 in tactics.. which means that empowered becomes even MORE effective as Fury and Might are maintained regardless.

Hmm… interesting. What do you think?

6~8% self provided damage and another 4~10 that can be provided VIA team buffs. Do we have a winner that is better than both our builds?

Jewel is easiest.
You make masterwork items at level 50 jeweler.

It costs about 40s total to get there and make the items (for me) since you can just sell back what you make
There is actually a guide on wiki if you look it up.

I agree with Red Falcon.
Going against a Shatter Cat mesmer is pure Learn 2 Play.

Best way? I recommend you make a mesmer and use the shattercat builds yourself.
You learn what each illusions looks like and the general movement patterns mesmers utilize. Once you get this down, they aren’t as hard.

The only reason you see mesmers 1v5 and win is because most people can’t tell the difference between illusion and real mesmer instantly… also… I would say that most don’t even know what mesmer skills do lol

Resouled.5614:

CookMETEnder.7582:

Resouled.5614:

CookMETEnder.7582:

Resouled.5614:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fIUQRAse5cjgOpuxQCPMRCCMDscFjCjI+ThkoPQHA;TwAAzCuowyglALLWOskYt6Y0xeh5CA

I always like to try stuff out that people call not viable and yet make it work. So, I wanted to show you the build me and my guildy came up with.

Pros:
- You apply, weakness, bleed, cripple, confusion, burn and poison on regular base, so high condition damage.
- 4 interrupts, low cd
-> 4 possible ways of stacking 3 stacks of confusion for 6s.
- 3 blocks with med cd, you reflect projectiles, and apply a 1s burn for each hit! Shield stance has never been this awesome before!
- 3,2k armor, you can tank a ton of direct damage!
- Quite mobile with Savage leap.

Cons:
- Condition removal besides Signet of Stamina is very little.
- Healing doesn’t heal you that much.

This build is a very strong 1v1 fighter and when played right can be very effective. The real gem of this build are really the Guardian runes and the Distacting Strikes trait to apply burning and confusion to up your damage.

Oh, you could btw grab mobile strikes instead of the 25pt minor trait in the toughness tree but since you still do some decent direct damage and have high toughness the power increase is quite good.

Let me know what you guys think.

I think the general consensus was that condition is inferior to pure damage in PvE.
So, who exactly are you proving wrong with this…?

Maybe I wasn’t clear in my first post but this is a PvP focused build.

Maybe I wasn’t clear in my first post, but my reply was about your comment in your first post.

“I always like to try stuff out that people call not viable and yet make it work.”

For PvE, your statement would be true. Condition is not viable at all.
For PvP, your statement is arguable at best. Condition has always been a nice alternative. (Note: I do not mean pure condition)

Maybe my knowledge about condition warrior specs is too little but I haven’t heard or seen anyone really call it viable in PvP. But that might just be me then. In that case disregard my comment.

On the contrary, i think your knowledge of condition warrior specs is great.
I love the direction you are taking with this build

Resouled.5614:

CookMETEnder.7582:

Resouled.5614:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fIUQRAse5cjgOpuxQCPMRCCMDscFjCjI+ThkoPQHA;TwAAzCuowyglALLWOskYt6Y0xeh5CA

I always like to try stuff out that people call not viable and yet make it work. So, I wanted to show you the build me and my guildy came up with.

Pros:
- You apply, weakness, bleed, cripple, confusion, burn and poison on regular base, so high condition damage.
- 4 interrupts, low cd
-> 4 possible ways of stacking 3 stacks of confusion for 6s.
- 3 blocks with med cd, you reflect projectiles, and apply a 1s burn for each hit! Shield stance has never been this awesome before!
- 3,2k armor, you can tank a ton of direct damage!
- Quite mobile with Savage leap.

Cons:
- Condition removal besides Signet of Stamina is very little.
- Healing doesn’t heal you that much.

This build is a very strong 1v1 fighter and when played right can be very effective. The real gem of this build are really the Guardian runes and the Distacting Strikes trait to apply burning and confusion to up your damage.

Oh, you could btw grab mobile strikes instead of the 25pt minor trait in the toughness tree but since you still do some decent direct damage and have high toughness the power increase is quite good.

Let me know what you guys think.

I think the general consensus was that condition is inferior to pure damage in PvE.
So, who exactly are you proving wrong with this…?

Maybe I wasn’t clear in my first post but this is a PvP focused build.

Maybe I wasn’t clear in my first post, but my reply was about your comment in your first post.

“I always like to try stuff out that people call not viable and yet make it work.”

For PvE, your statement would be true. Condition is not viable at all.
For PvP, your statement is arguable at best. Condition has always been a nice alternative. (Note: I do not mean pure condition)

Ethics.4519:

Lafiel.9372:

The JP we have nowadays just isn’t enough now that i’ve experienced the mad king JP. That was one of the best jumping puzzle experiences I had in awhile and now everything else just seems plain kitten easy :o.

Not to mention the theme and sadistic style of the puzzle was awesome, the christmas one, although was fun, just didn’t feel dark enough and was ultimately way too easy.

I hope anet has some big plans for future JP like this and I really hope that when the next halloween comes, it won’t just be a rehash of the old event stuff!

I completely agree. I would love to see JPotM (Like fractals, but jumping puzzles of the mists). The JP gets harder and harder and changes every level, but your chest reward, karma, gold, etc (whatever reward) gets higher as you go along. Actually, I made go suggest this now.

OMG YES!!!
YES. YES. YES.!!!
YES!!!!

Leadfoot.9071:

Hah, I remember last week or sometime around then I looked at the scoreboard in hot join and saw you on the other team and new I was in for a rough ride. Pretty sure you were playing this build and consistently beating the kitten out of me. I bet I’m featured in one of those long hot join videos you have on your twitch channel /embarrassed

Videos are a blast to watch, you are very effective with the build – I love the looks of it but I’m not sure I’m skilled enough to play it effectively.

Question, you are really good at dropping target and using savage leap to get out of sticky situations… how do you do that? Half the time I forget to detarget and end up leaping right at the guy I want to escape from lol. AFAIK the only way to drop target is to spam ESC button which seems to be inconsistent and I often end up with the main menu up on my screen… is there actually a bind for it? I know I should probably just look but I’m bored with work and wanted to bump this wonderful thread anyways :P

EDIT: I checked the wiki and do not see a drop target button:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Controls

curious how you are managing it.

Turn off auto-target.
It’s great for PvE, but a deadly mistake in PvP.

Resouled.5614:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fIUQRAse5cjgOpuxQCPMRCCMDscFjCjI+ThkoPQHA;TwAAzCuowyglALLWOskYt6Y0xeh5CA

I always like to try stuff out that people call not viable and yet make it work. So, I wanted to show you the build me and my guildy came up with.

Pros:
- You apply, weakness, bleed, cripple, confusion, burn and poison on regular base, so high condition damage.
- 4 interrupts, low cd
-> 4 possible ways of stacking 3 stacks of confusion for 6s.
- 3 blocks with med cd, you reflect projectiles, and apply a 1s burn for each hit! Shield stance has never been this awesome before!
- 3,2k armor, you can tank a ton of direct damage!
- Quite mobile with Savage leap.

Cons:
- Condition removal besides Signet of Stamina is very little.
- Healing doesn’t heal you that much.

This build is a very strong 1v1 fighter and when played right can be very effective. The real gem of this build are really the Guardian runes and the Distacting Strikes trait to apply burning and confusion to up your damage.

Oh, you could btw grab mobile strikes instead of the 25pt minor trait in the toughness tree but since you still do some decent direct damage and have high toughness the power increase is quite good.

Let me know what you guys think.

I think the general consensus was that condition is inferior to pure damage in PvE.
So, who exactly are you proving wrong with this…?

Candir.5608:

Sorry about the confusion, the damage numbers were from WvW. I’ll have to test out PvE numbers later tonight. I find my adrenaline charges pretty quickly in fights, and with the holdover adrenaline from one fight or mob you can use eviscerate as an opener on your next target and begin rebuilding it. I know I lose out on some sustain damage when I pop evisc, but I use it when I need burst. It really doesn’t feel like it takes long to recharge.

Ah cool, thanks!
Let me know what you find out!

Can anyone else contribute to this thread?
Still have a lot more I need more knowledge on T_T…
and I’m sure other Axe Warriors out there need help as well!!

Phira.3970:

CookMETEnder.7582:

Phira.3970:

I wouldn’t even say it’s +50 power and +5% crit damage VS. +20% crit chance because you do get “perma-fury.” You use Dual Strike, For Great Justice, Elite Signet of Rage. You will keep it up indefinitely.

So if you did the above combo ^, in comparison to my build, your build would just lose +50 power and +5% crit . damage

So, for axe/shield, axe/sword, axe/mace, you really think 5% crit damage and 50 power (not exactly 50 since SoR grants might as well) is better than 20% crit chance?

Logic is a bit off here. Axe/shield, axe/sword, axe/mace do get +20% crit chance. You can grant 38 seconds of Fury yourself or more if you have +fury duration runes.

Your assumption is that my build isn’t 24/7 fury. I can say the same. Your build doesn’t have +20% crit chance because it isn’t exactly “perma-fury”. Axe/axe however does give “perma-fury.” So for 30/25/0/0/15 with axe/axe, I’ll say you are losing 50 power, +5% crit dmg, and +20% crit chance. See how flawed this logic is?

As for fast hands for hybrid GS – Axe, at least for Citadel of Flame, we find pure axe to be more damaging. Two reasons for this. 1) you can trait for another trait that buffs axe. Going hybrid means taking out something like 10% crit. chance for axe for +10% dmg on GS. 2) You have 1 more sigil spot which we use Sigil of Night (10% dmg vs. Flame legions) in combination with Superior Sigil of Smothering for another +10% dmg totalling in +20% damage in just sigils (talking from a CoF perspective here).

It would however be useful for PvP.

I think your logic is quite a bit off.

First, adding in Fury runes (2 minimum) would cut away that 50 power since you are losing power, percision, AND critical damage, so that is already out of the question.

Second, I’m assuming from your replies that you haven’t seen the other threads. I replace Crack Shot with Furious Reaction (10s of fury per 30s).
SoR – 30s of rage per 48s
FGJ – 16s of rage (can be used twice for 8s each while SoR is on CD)
Furious Reaction – 10s rage per 30.

You need to match the longest cooldown in order to maintain permanent rage.
This provides 56s of rage per 48s CD. Fury stacks duration. Permanent Fury by far.
Therefore, my build IS permanent fury while your build is not.
How would you respond then? (Once again, no offense, just want to see how you compare 5% crit damage and 50power [actually less because of Might] to 20% critical chance)

Dancing Face.4695:

Like said above, something is missing. The warrior can use a lot of weapon wich can combined in a lot of way but there’s something the warrior doesn’t have. A one-handed ranged weapon. Every classes got one but warrior. I’d like to have the chance to hit kiter classes or field classes without having a kamikaze build to kill ppl in few hit. I don’t like the 2 handed ranged weapon warrior has atm, they look like more for condition and you lose all the support of off-hand.
What do you think about?

Apologizes if my english is bad.

I think you’re asking for too much.
Warriors have the largest selection of weapons… and you want more?
It’s like the billionaire who made his money ripping off those making 8$ an hour, lol.

Mosharn.8357:

Please buff this anet. Please I ask you. Sword as of now sucks. It’s on the bottom of the dps group and the only other cond dmg we have is burn which isnt too super awesome since only 2 skills cause it and 1 that should but never does.

Sword has no real use except the sword 2. Please i beg you give us warriors a real bleed/burn build going on. We like to deal cond dmg too

I love running sword as off-hand
Sexy skin and the bleed + block is so useful.

That being said, yea, warrior condition damage does need a buff, but I can’t think of a way in which to do it without making warriors even more OP in the damage category.
It’s so hard to balance condition since Sword is not purely condition damage…

That and the fact that Sword Condition is not that bad for a team pvp set up

Dolan.3071:

I concur, I tried shout healing, wasn’t a fan. For “burst healing” it was rather pathetic even when syncing all 3. I’d rather just drop a healing banner and use my other shouts whenever I kitten well please.

Exactly. I Feel like if you’re going to support, you might as well go for banner

Dolan.3071:

Red Falcon.8257:

Brigg.6189:

shout healing unnoticeable? 3576 x5 people = 17880 total healing every 20s without any +healing used. Imagine if you stacked a couple shout wars.

Except it’s almost never really 3576 x5.

That only happens if:
- all people are in a 600 radius from you (very rare in fights that matter)
- all people are damaged; for every single person not damaged you “overheal” and need to remove 3576 from the total (this also happens a lot)
- nobody is poisoned
In real in-game scenarios shout healing average half the healing it does in theory, due to those big limitations.

Let alone that:
- You don’t have EP, thus your lasting power is greatly reduced, and you cannot tank mobs to prevent spikes that will instead go to your team (EP tanking Vet Wars in Ascalon for instance).
- You don’t have stability in any form.
- SIO steals conditions that proper support builds could convert to boons
- SIO is useless in scenarios where conditions are not present or ignoreable aka most of the endgame
- OMM is useless with Necro/Ranger in your team
- No Bolas to lockdown bosses
- No Banners so nothing of all those team buffs
- Your damage is half that of a DPS warrior

Downsides vastly overpower the small benefit of healing shouts.
It’s just a bit less useless than a signet build.

Endgame consists of more than simply farming CoF1. Most dungeon encounters will last much longer than what a team of zerker warriors getting time warped will. Endure Pain has an ungodly long cooldown, and in every situation other than CoF it will be wasting a valuable utility slot, bolas are in the same boat. Sorry, but I don’t buy it at all…

EP sucks in my opinion as well.
However, I think shout heal builds suck as well

IT ALL SUCKS!

Sarcasmic.6741:

I still can’t understand why you would slot offhand Sword with a mainhand Axe over either Mace or another Axe.

1) Skin. This alone is enough for me, and the only logical/illogical reason for it lol
2) #4 is nice for bleeds so you don’t have to slot 50% longer bleed in any situation
3) #5 is like a nooby version of shield block, but can be used twice as often
4) Skin.
5) Skin.

Another Axe is rather useless now, even compared to sword in my opinion. I loved it while Omnom had no CD

Phira.3970:

I wouldn’t even say it’s +50 power and +5% crit damage VS. +20% crit chance because you do get “perma-fury.” You use Dual Strike, For Great Justice, Elite Signet of Rage. You will keep it up indefinitely.

So if you did the above combo ^, in comparison to my build, your build would just lose +50 power and +5% crit . damage

So, for axe/shield, axe/sword, axe/mace, you really think 5% crit damage and 50 power (not exactly 50 since SoR grants might as well) is better than 20% crit chance?

Phira.3970:

I don’t really see the point of +20% cooldown on Signet unless a fight is really going to take over 46 seconds long. And you’re missing +50 power, and a net +5 crit. dmg just to get that signet reduction trait.

+50 power and +5% crit damage
VS
20% critical chance

To me, that’s an obvious choice. Also, you can not forget that you gain extra stacks of might from SoR, so overall, I think it comes out way ahead.

Also, all boss fights last longer than that.
For mobs also, I rather being hitting critical with everything. Having to go against a mob and being on downtime for Fury significantly cuts into DPS… although, honestly, anything works for trash mobs.

Daokitten618:

I did level 38 today with little to no issues running GS + S/Sh. I don’t see why people underestimate the value of a GS vs trash mobs, especially if they are grouped together like in Battle for Ascalon. For the record I run Soldier weapons, Knights armour, Divinity runes and Berserker accessories. Staying mobile is the way to go.

“I don’t see why people underestimate the value of a GS vs trash mobs”

When has it ever been underestimated?
It’s simply that since most people utilize it, a CC or two would be of great help.

Phira.3970:

I’m not sure where you’re getting permanent fury from. F1 from great sword? If you are getting permanent fury, then it would be worth getting in a situation where your team isn’t giving you fury or if your elite is down

25/25/0/0/20 and GS

Runes and gears and sigils?

Send

Power total
Crit chance : +98% crit. chance <- How did you get +98%. +250 precision from weapon sigil?
Crit Dmg total
+Dmg% total
Gs or axe?

Here is what I am currently running.
I no longer utilize Great Sword for PvE (except a few fights where I find it to be more effective and CoF farm)

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|7.1g.h2.c.1g.h1|4.1g.h1|1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1g.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d19.3s.d19.2s.d13.2s.d13|p58.p57.0.0.k56|54.7|0.0.0.0.0|e

Sorry, my bad, I have 97% critical with Fury.
30s Fury from Signet of Rage (48s cool down because of 20 in discipline)
8s from FGJ x2 = 16s (You use it twice in the duration of SoR’s cooldown)
That’s 46s out of every 48s. That is near permanent fury. Have a single source of outside Fury, which I often find, and you have perma fury right there.

It’s basically the same as the GS build I was running except that I changed traits to be traited towards an Axe.

Excuse the one berserker armor. It’s the Flame Legion gloves. The rest is Knight.
All Berserker ascended amulets, but I’m working on the infusions.

EDIT:
I know I can swap out crack shot to be more effective, but I run crack shot when I’m feeling particularly lazy

Brigg.6189:

shout healing unnoticeable? 3576 x5 people = 17880 total healing every 20s without any +healing used. Imagine if you stacked a couple shout wars.

I don’t think unnoticeable is the right word.
I think the word we are looking for is not efficient or effective…

I MUCH rather have two guardians bouncing holy rays of light between them than a Guardian with a supportive warrior on the side.
It’s nice to have that warrior, but two unique guardian builds is much better.

The warrior support build is great. It’s just that whatever support you can do with a warrior is, overall, out shined by what a guardian can do.

Now, if we’re talking about offensive support, you may have an argument.

Does no one realize that you can get ascended from Fractals?
Just wondering…

Mystic.4805:

I had my thoughts to use Hammer for tough high lvl fractals instead of greatsword for its great control skill which can save the party/ make it simply a lot easier.
What do you think, is it worth the trouble or would Gs be suffice enough( im yet to experience it witha hammer)?

Depends… what is your secondary weapon set?

Phira.3970:

And for all of you posting more than 10 points in discipline, reread my OP. I edited it so it is easier to read as to why you wouldn’t want more than 10 points in discipline.

Mainly:

+dmg% > +crit dmg > power > precision

The trait distribution is aimed at maxing +dmg% which is almost 2x better than +crit dmg.

The 20 in discipline is not for more crit dmg mate, it’s for permanent fury.
Perma Fury brings me to abotu 98% crit chance.
I’m hitting over 2x stronger on nearly all my hits.

How would you reply to that?
(I don’t mean this in an insulting way, I’m genuinely curious of what you think as I am trying to optimize this part as well)

Candir.5608:

I don’t have concrete numbers for eviscerate, just what I’ve seen playing with it. I run 20-20-0-0-30. Knight’s armor with ruby orbs, mix of soldier/berserker accessories and berserker weapons. I’m on my phone so numbers are Roughly 2000 power, 50ish base crit chance, and 85% crit dmg. When in wvw/dungeons I use butternut squash soup and maintenance oil. With signet active I’m around 85% chance and 95% dmg. Like I mentioned I try to always shield bash first for guaranteed crit – eviscerate crit hits for 3500 on the very low side and I’ve had them get up to 11-12k on glass cannon opponents. Average seems to be around 6-7k.

Others may have different results, I just posted gear and build so you can compare.

What do you mean on glass cannon opponents in PvE?
Also, is it worth having to rebuild your adrenaline?

Thanks for your input though!

Phira.3970:

CookMETEnder.7582:

So I’m guessing you guys all use FGJ in order to maintain perma fury?
That’s the only way I see taking 10 out of tactics being viable.
20% crit chance is nothing to laugh at.

You would use Battle Standard to maintain fury. “Place a battle standard that revives fallen allies and grants fury, might, and swiftness [sic] to allies.”

That has a 240s cool down.
I’ve honestly never payed attention… does it continuously grant Fury or is it simply one time? It would also still require multiple users as well.

Oglaf.1074:

30 in Strength isn’t about Grandmaster Traits.

It is about being able to get Dual Wielding and Axe Mastery.

Is it worth losing perma-fury? You only gain 5% more crit damage (remember that 5 points in discipline grants 5% crit damage) so you’re effective power only goes up by 260… but you are sacrificing 20% critical chance for quite a noticeable amount of time.

Critical chance of perma-fury isn’t even calculated in so I feel like losing that Fury would cause a steeper loss in DPS.

Twiista.1689:

Okay this isn’t a white knighting post please stick to the topic.

I think a lot of warriors on here are misunderstanding her post.

You are all fighting the fact that she said warrior is the best healer. But if you read the other posts you would know that she meant the warrior is the best PRACTICAL healer.

We all know that a guardian, if standing still, can heal more than a warrior. I mean they can heal you to full in 5 seconds with their elite. In wvw, however, this isn’t very practical. Guardian’s and Ele’s no doubt have a lot of healing potential, but, they have to be in close range to pull it off (especially in the case of the guardian). The only healing that the guardian has that isn’t close range that I can think off, are aegis (when traited to heal when broken) and staff 2 skill. For everything else they have to be in melee range. That also goes for any buffs they might provide (minus shouts).

In WvW, being in melee range is very dangerous unless you have a coordinate group besides you. So if you are trying to be a healer, having to go into melee isn’t exaclty the best idea.

This is where the practicality of the warrior heals comes in. Banners are great in that they cover a LARGE LARGE area. The heals are constant, they provide buffs, and can be used from a distance. All this combined means the warrior is going be healing a lot more over time that the guardian who has to dodge and duck in and out of melee trying to heal.

Take this post as you will. I am not claiming which is best as I personally have not geared and tested this in wvw. However, I can see the advantages that it will have.

I’m not misunderstanding her post, I’m simply asking for the countless charts and videos she has claimed to have made… yet she blatantly ignores the requests for the proof.

I wish Traherne would die.

Gestankfaust.4216:

Qwyksylver Vyqtunos.6312:

Gestankfaust.4216:

3. You transmuted it…stats are what they are.

Q – Why would they change?

By transmuting the item…you choose what it’s stats are for life. I don’t even remember anywhere Anet saying that if the level increases…or however you wanna put it…that the current item you own would increase.

I hope it doesn’t. A retro active increase seems …. well….dumb

Anet has said that legendary items will always be the best, therefore if they add in items with better than current legendary stats the legendaries will get a stat boost to remain at the top

They never said that the current legendaries would get a stat boost that I know of. That’s the debate from the masses. Which is my point

Actually, they did. It’s a debate from the masses that caused a response from the…erm… forgot her name, kitten The girl that used to be the lead of something then became one of the designers. It’s somewhere on the forums or you can just look it up on google search. It has been confirmed that Legendary weapons WILL be raised.

There was even an error in a patch where the Legendary weapons were actually raised to Ascended stats by mistake (mistake b/c ascended weapons were not out yet).

JJBigs.8456:

I have tried several setups and I have it narrowed to this:

25/30/0/0/15 or 30/30/0/0/10. I tried 25/25/0/0/20- Didnt seem to be as much

Which trait setup for maximum damage? I do like high crit chance because nothing makes me madder than seeing the end burst of 100b not be a crit.

Everything else is pretty much standard. Zerker w/ Ruby Orbs. Sigil of Strength on GS. FGJ,OMM,Shakeit,warbanner. Food = 10 percent crit damage with potion of X slaying, or sharpening stone. Charge Bloodlust sigil to 25, before switching to Strength sigil.

My highest hit ever on 100b, was 43k on a Risen Berserker inside CoE p2 before second alpha. 25 might, 25 vulnerbility, 25 bloodlust, banner of discipline, Plate of Truffle Steak Dinner activated for 200 power, potion of inquest slaying, and 30/30/0/0/10.

I’m leaning towards 25/25/0/0/20.
Out of curiosity, how are you running a 30/30/0/0/10 build? I’m just wondering which Grand Master traits you use. As far as I know from personal experience and others voicing their opinions, the grand master traits are rarely worth getting.

Also, why not 25/25/0/10/10 build?
Have you concluded that Empowered is not worth it?
I’m curious because I’m caught between 25/25/0/0/20 and 25/25/0/10/10.
The 20 in discipline let’s me maintain near perma-fury which = 98% crit for me.
The 10 however, which I occasionally utilize, grants me 2.5% damage per boon. This is awesome when I have constant sources of Fury coming from team-mates so I can keep my crit rate high.

Thanks guys for all your posts about the skins!
I’ll look them all up!

Anyone know as far as the math goes? (And eviscerate Axe Burst?)

Also, I would go 25/25/0/10/10 (to get empowered) if running with at least 2 other warriors that use FGJ. Not sure though if it is worth running it when I won’t have outside sources of fury. The extra damage seems awesome, but meh… hmmm

So I’m guessing you guys all use FGJ in order to maintain perma fury?
That’s the only way I see taking 10 out of tactics being viable.
20% crit chance is nothing to laugh at.

Hammer/GS warrior.
6 – Mending
7 – Bull’s Charge
8 – Stomp
9 – Bolas (Primarily to waste condition removers, but if they are caught on CD, instant win with HB to the fact)
10 – SoR

With an insane amount of cripples, knock downs, stuns, etc… I find this build highly effective.
In WvWvW, you can chase anyone down easily w/ #5 GS + Bull’s Rush.
In organized Dueling, it’s all about patience. You just need to learn to move around and utilize the excellent mobility of the GS until you can strike with the Hammer as an opener. It all depends on the situation though.

Lalangamena.3694:

I don’t see any link in the OP to the build that can shout heal 9K and banner regen 400 a tick and block and defy pain at the same time.
I would like to see that build.

some serious thinking and theorycrafting was performed about warrior support and healing, its all here:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/70934-supportive-warrior-builds-think-tank/

and here

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/71682-supportive-warrior-builds-part-ii-numerical-analysis/

nothing is new,
warriors have good group support and the best revive in game.
its a pity that the warrior was hijacked by the “DPS or nothing” mindset.
guardian support and warrior support complete each other.
sometimes I wish this game had raids (10 men??? if shouts and banners could affect more than five people) just to see how support guardian and support warrior work together…

It’s just that with efficient dodging and a single good guardian, you don’t really need a support warrior. You can burn through anything…
that being said, I think support warriors are THE BEST when its a pub group

I’ve finally decided to switch full time to axe. I’ll still have my GS in inventory for CoF farms and such, but I’m seeking to finally change into an axe main-hand build as my primary set-up.

Also, I will be sticking with my full Knight armor w/ Ruby (except the Flame Legion gloves which are berserker) and full Berserker ascended w/ Ruby (putting in Berserker armor in dungeons that are comfortable for me).

The build I have been running is 25/25/0/0/20. I found that 50% longer bleeds wasn’t all that great in dungeons since there are so many sources of bleed. That being said…

1. Axe/??? What do you recommend?
Axe/Axe – Sexy skins and perma-fury (although I’m only short like 4s w/o)
Axe/Mace – Vulnerability + CC (bad skin though…)
Axe/Shield – Sexy skins, stun, and the noob 3s survivability for when I screw up
Axe/Sword – Block every 15s + indefinite bleed stack (no need for trait)

Right now, I’m heavily leaning towards Axe/Sword. Why? Sexiest possible combination skins (lol), the indefinite bleed stack so I won’t have any worries in any circumstances, and the block every 15s. I know it’s not a full 3s block like shield, but from my experience, I’m inclined to believe that 2 well-timed blocks are better than 3s of immunity (in most cases, not all).

2. Build
Is the 25/25/0/0/20 good or is there a more optimal build for axe main-hand?
Going to tinker around with it again.

3. Secondary Set
Right now, I have a Rifle simply because of the skin… is there anything else you suggest?
I realize that for maximum efficiency, you should switch between melee weapons and pull out a ranged before bosses when necessary… but I’ve been becoming more casual lately… I don’t want to switch honestly haha
Rifle or LB? The new LB makes it sexy, but there are so many better skins for Rifle…

4. Bursting, is it worth it?
I know Eviscerate hits hard, but is it worth the down time of adrenaline = less damage and crit chance from traits?

5. Utilities (General that I utilize)
-Mending (I prefer it over Healing Surge)
-For Great Justice
-Shake it Off (Love it! Not just for the condition removal but also b/c if you get knocked down, it picks you right back up… Life saver)
-Signet of Stamina (I can’t get enough of the dodges)
-Signet of Rage (Fury, Might, and Swiftness… alright!)

Thanks guys for all your help!

P.S. Please recommend some really good skins for axe, sword, and Rifle/LB!!!

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|7.1g.h2.c.1g.h1|4.1g.h1|1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1g.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d19.3s.d19.2s.d13.2s.d13|p58.p57.0.0.k56|54.7|0.0.0.0.0|e

(Crack Shot simply because I don’t want to swap traits. I do for speed clears and farming, but I’m just making a slightly more casual build for FoTM and dungeons with guildies)

(Also, if bursting with axe does provide a LOT more DPS, then I would take 5 from strength and put that into arms to get adrenaline on critical hits)

EDIT:
I replace Crack Shot with Furious Reaction when I’m not lazy and I change traits lol
I love the definite perma-fury and more dodges

FASTCAR.7831:

Easy to talk and have an untested theory:
Show us your video of ( insert class here) healing better then warrior
Show us you even doing 400 a tick
Till then….shhhhhhh
let the big kids talk

I’ve asked and you continue to ignore.
Show us YOU Testing out all the builds.
Show us all these tables you have made.

Scoobaniec.9561:

If u getting hit by hammer #5 its l2 kitten ue, same as f1.

Hammer #3 600range..actually seeems good but tis won’t change anything, getting hit by gs #4 is l2 kitten ue

Hammer burst?

Bolas? Do its ever hit? Stomp and bull change can be dodged easy, except bull if ur close to enemy with frezy up but.. u gotta have another utility for it.

Also i don’t promote gun’n’run builds, if someone decide to get close, ill punish him with my axe for that, making sure he will whirwind away to survive. Have u even tried shieldbash++evi combo with unespescted foe (always crit)? its can hurts badly

Also i been playing a bit on tpvp and i can’t say i been doing bad, but for now im done with pvp on GW2.

edit:

Fact is cripple/chill is deadly for any warrior, u can’t say its untrue, even if they was just some bad warriors they was still lacking tools to get rid of it, speccing for condition removal inst a good option. And anyways how u want to use bolas, stomp, bull with shouts?

Yeah.. Im trying to make a point that our skills are predictable, every time ill use hammer f1 i am in air for a second. Also we lack tools against conditions, boons and who knows what else. Its a fail desing in “no trinity” game.

1. If you think that hammer #5 is an opener, that’s a L2 kitten ue in itself.
2. Cripple/chill is deadly against a warrior. But it’s a joke to think that one warrior can kite another unless the one being kited is extremely bad.
3. Where the hell are you getting shouts from? Read, please.
4. No, Killshot and HB is predictable. A good hammer user can easily fake out.

Don’t change your argument.
Your point was originally that, as a ranged warrior, you could kite another warrior all day.