Guild Wars 2

Charak.9761:

Osi.3504:

They should have been added to the ticket vendor for 10 claim tickets, arena net failed horribly.

10? what?

I know it’s a matter of taste but it seems there are many people viewing these
[i.e. shield, GS, staff] as the visually most appealing skins of their respective weapon category. 10 seems fair- lets people buy them if they really want to and due to the price gives others an incentive to sell them on the TP while still leaving them relatively exclusive but not unobtainable (600g, lol)

a t s e.9614:

dDuff.3860:

Build something like 10/0/0/30/30 and pick soldier/shaman’s
S/D+SB and just spam evades endlessly – bunkering points with zero effort.

Too mch efort when warrios have a PASSIVE regen

and no active heal.

kittenstorm inc in 3… 2… 1…

in regards to bunker, p/d with carrion and/or dire can be pretty tanky.

Taxes. € prices also are about 36% higher than $ as 1€=1.356$.
800 gems cost 10 of the regional currency and yes, it kitten es me off too.

Just tried it. The projectile traveles extremely slow, about the same speed as shortbow AA. Misses most moving targets. Other than that it seems fine.

Puru.4217:

Good change, it would render S/P 100% useless, nobody would ever bother using D/P at this point, it would also damage the thief MASSIVELY in PvE and remove the only “viable” source of defence P/P has access to.

Also if pistol weren’t meant to do physical damage, why does unload and the +10% pistol damage trait even exist to begin with? Not that i don’t agree this set would be better off being 100% support/condi based but it’s obviously still not what anet wants it to be atm.

if you have a problem with D/P and perma stealth (especially in wvw) then next time make a thread about changing infusion of shadow, i might actually agree with you on that one.

Aaand another one who didn’t bother to read the whole post.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is the reason i was mad at whoever moved the thread here.

Stooperdale.3560:

“Spamming should not be an option. If you want to be efficient with your class, then it should be neccessary to learn the mechanics and be genuinely good at it.”

Someone linked an article the other day by David Sirlin and, although I disagreed with the attitude, one part of the article is important here. If there is a core mechanic that is strong then use it. It doesn’t have to flashy, skilful, or complex. I’m not sure why you want to stop thieves using basic skills for simple and effective defense and force them to dodge every second. Other classes have equally simple mechanics that they use to flatten the trash mobs or can flatten trash mobs with no skills whatsoever. Also, unlike the thief, those classes can flatten boss mobs in the same way!

The “why” is explained in detail in the original posts. Please refer to them. I don’t want to quote myself for the xth time because nobody here seems to take the time to actually read the whole thing before posting.

style.6173:

Disagree with the OP. I doubt anyone would play D/P with those changes. You’d just see more D/D.

Also, poison doesn’t fit well with a P/P spec. That’s a power spec. Adding conditions doesn’t really help much.

What gives you the idea that p/p is a power specc?
Was it the weak auto attack with bleed on it?

Sifu.6527:

I agree with Excalibur – please close thread.

Sifu.6527:

kitten s.7421:

For all those struggling with this concept.

I totally understand the concept and I wish the game’s risks vs rewards match that of the graph. It is sad that the risk vs reward in game is no where close to what you posted.

Example: Mesmer’s GS. You do more damage the further you are away. This encourage taking less risk for higher reward. And don’t get me started with Izerker, a 1200 range 4-6K damage. Blurred Frenzy – mini 100B but without the risk. I’m not calling for nerfs – I’m just using this as an example.

It seems like they have bigger problems to deal with and I highly doubt they will ever get to balance this.

Taken from another thread. What makes you think that the examples you posted are bad risk/reward, yet stealth on demand without the need to pay attention to cooldowns and other defense mechanisms isn’t.

Spamming should not be an option. If you want to be efficient with your class, then it should be neccessary to learn the mechanics and be genuinely good at it.
Contrary to the thief, the warrior only has one working build for pvp which is hammer/lb. Another problem is visibility, warrior skills are all very telegraphed and easily avoided, a stealthed thief can not be avoided.
Also this is a topic about thieves, not warriors.
If you have suggestions, go ahead and post them in the warrior forums, see what they have to say about it.

So instead of managing your defensive cooldowns, which would promote planning in advance, understanding the opponents class and keep life saving abilities for when you need them, you want to be able to spam everything and get away with it?

I’d also like to point out that this change goes much deeper then just d/p-HS
as is commented on in the original post.
-d/d viable again
-p/p viable
-s/d still has an evade for the channel #3
-d/p gains another form of damage mitigation instead of serving the same purpose as d/d

Excalibur.9748:

Crovax.7854:

Excalibur.9748:

As i said, easy access to stealth without risk should definitely have its price.

I would agree with you if thief has 19k base hp and heavy armor and healing signet. Then again, it doesn’t and easy access to blind + stealth ARE “without risk” are its defensive mechanisms.

Which you have on many supportive skills with a cooldown but it should not be accessible through spammable weapon skills.

Cooldowns won’t cut it. They need to be readily spammable.

I guess my english isn’t good enough. What does “readily spammable” mean?

Excalibur.9748:

As i said, easy access to stealth without risk should definitely have its price.

I would agree with you if thief has 19k base hp and heavy armor and healing signet. Then again, it doesn’t and easy access to blind + stealth ARE “without risk” are its defensive mechanisms.

Which you have on many supportive skills with a cooldown but it should not be accessible through spammable weapon skills.

The skill shuts down melee damage through blind, ranged damage through
block both even against multiple sources (!) and can be used to stealth. It just isn’t used because of BP. It would see much more use with BP as poison. Want to stealth for a long duration without risk? Use smoke screen. Advantages over SR: While using SR it is ease to be pulled/pushed out of the safe zone. Try that while being blinded and your projectiles being blocked. Also blast finishers stealth allies and friendly players can use the field to blind opponents through whirls and projectiles.

All that while being useful in dungeon pve to shut down mobs hard and solo pve with a cd instead of initiative cost.
As i said, easy access to stealth without risk should definitely have its price.

I honestly can’t understand how people can support the skillless and thoughtless playstyle that d/p promotes.

Excalibur.9748:

You want blind? You want stealth?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Screen

Lol at listing this PvE-only skill used to reflect projectiles. Nice going.

There you go. What did you say? You can’t spam it anymore? You have to actually think before using an ability? Yeah i guess for some thieves that thought is quite terrifying.

Funny considering I hardly use stealth or black powder at all. It’s not my style. I don’t spam anything except for dancing dangers which no other thieves use but idc.

You do realize that smokescreen has the same effect as blinding powder with an additional projectile block (not reflect!) and +75% duration?
This again shows that you didn’t even took the time to read (and understand) my initial post. If you can’t show me some basic respect by at least trying to understand what i’m saying, why should i even answer your posts?

All i want is for people to fully understand my thoughts behind the change and give constructive feedback i.e. agreeing/disagreeing with explanation.

Excalibur.9748:

As i said, the compensation is as follows: d/d fills the gap that would be left by d/p loosing stealth, thus making it finally viable again. My point is not that stealth stacking is bad (which it is) but rather the ability to stealth without risk.

That’s not compensation, that’s just a straight nerf considering D/D is pitiful these days.

d/p gains access to poison and easy to apply 8second weakness (8sec base for leap finisher through poison field, 3sec for blast iirc) This limits the opponents defense and offense. Build diversity would be greater, given that every weapon set has its own meanse of defense, but you would have known all that, had you actually read what i wrote.

Poison field is worthless, especially for main hand dagger thieves. There I said it. We do not want poison, we want blind. We want stealth.

Really, quit while you’re ahead.

How is d/d bad? Do you mean to tell me you don’t want to trade one layer of defense (daze) for another (stealth)? oh no! the horror! Given that you still have a blind plus gapcloser on #3 i see no reason to qq. D/d still has blinds through blind on stealth and dagger #5, which would be this setups defense. D/p has spammable dazes and weakness as defense. Sorry i can’t see the problem.

You want blind? You want stealth?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Screen
There you go. What did you say? You can’t spam it anymore? You have to actually think before using an ability? Yeah i guess for some thieves that thought is quite terrifying.

Excalibur.9748:

Nah looks like you’re the one who made a fool of himself here, suggesting this outrageous nerf with no compensation. Won’t go over well, I suggest you stop now.

I also think #5 -> #2 is not balanced well but I also know better to suggest a nerf of this magnitude. There are way more reasonable suggestions like other actual thieves have made.

Yet again you have proven to possess absolutely no reading comprehensibility,
I didn’t suggest a nerf, i had an idea and wanted to hear other peoples opinions about it.If you don’t agree, please explain yourself, the others are capeable of this, why not you?

As i said, the compensation is as follows: d/d fills the gap that would be left by d/p loosing stealth, thus making it finally viable again. My point is not that stealth stacking is bad (which it is) but rather the ability to stealth without risk.

d/p gains access to poison and easy to apply 8second weakness (8sec base for leap finisher through poison field, 3sec for blast iirc) This limits the opponents defense and offense. Build diversity would be greater, given that every weapon set has its own means of defense, but you would have known all that, had you actually read what i wrote.

Stooperdale.3560:

“What exactly do you disagree with? Where does it supposedly show that i have no idea
about the class? What do i need to learn to fully understand thief class mechanics?”

If you only use sword/pistol for pistol whip and only use dagger/pistol for heartseeker than you are severely underplaying your thief. The smoke field as an area blind for melee opponents is core to PvE melee for the x/pistol builds. Blind is the staple defense for thieves since we are without boon based defense. You are discarding that for a largely worthless poison field that would be used less than the existing body shot.

Please read the whole OP; everything you have said is adressed there. Then post again.

Excalibur.9748:

Crovax.7854:

Excalibur.9748:

IIRC crovax main warrior, and he has an alt thief using troll spec P/D so not only this nerf not impact him, it would buff his OP warrior even more considering blind spam is an okay counter to warrior.

Main warrior in pve and wvw since release (no bandwagon), main thief in spvp since release using s/d s/p d/p (it is, hands down, better than d/d) and, yes, p/d. I’d love to see p/p as a viable alternative to p/d or at least as a viable offset, while also reducing the trolling and skillless/riskless play from d/p. Please read my OP first, stealth is fine, but make reward=risk. Usage of cnd to gain stealth doesn’t nerf the thief, it just requires actual thinking.

Also this thread isn’t about warriors but since you seem to insist: you already have a blind in terms of #3. Yes you couldn’t spam blinds anymore but i guess we all agree that spamming requires no thought at all, leading to easy to use, yet very strong classes, like the d/p in certain situations is.
So, while maintaining a blind without cd, you also have an easy to reapply poison.
That counters not only the warriors healing, but also his ability to cleanse conditions while keeping him infight, making resetting easier.

Please explain how that buffs warriors.

Also i could go ahead and do another compilation of all the stupid things you have said in the course of past months but i guess everyone who frequents the forums knows what kind of a clown you are.

I suggest you stop making ANY type of suggestions for thief period you have absolutely no understanding of the magnitude of this nerf for the thief in PvE/WvW since you don’t play a thief there.

You can cherry pick the few posts where I made a fool out of myself, what about the 95% of times I’m right? Oh besides, I’ve never pretended to play a warrior and try to get some suggestions in for the warrior which are blatant nerfs disguised as some kind of fix.

Lear to read; i made a proposition and wanted feedback from the community.
Also no, 50% of the time making a fool out of yourself would be more adequate,
including this time, since you have shown that you didn’t read my initial post, plus you also said that you don’t play d/p.
Playing warrior as a main in wvw, doesn’t mean i don’t play enough thief to know when a mechanic that allows the player to gain stealth independently from his enemy, is not balanced well.

Paulo.8459:

No, not really. My point was that other weaponsets would benefit from a venom change too.
Instead of pointlessly changing black powder, spider venom could be made more useful.
P/D main, D/D offset.

BP changes would benefit d/d p/p and also anything that doesn’t want to give up
a second weapon set for a poison field. Cluster bomb is good for aoe and infil. arrow is excellent mobility but i’d gladly give that up for, say, p/p-p/d. There i’d have stealth and a good amount of conditions, a daze and weakness, which limits the dodging my opponent can do and the overall damage by ~25%.

Excalibur.9748:

IIRC crovax main warrior, and he has an alt thief using troll spec P/D so not only this nerf not impact him, it would buff his OP warrior even more considering blind spam is an okay counter to warrior.

Main warrior in pve and wvw since release (no bandwagon), main thief in spvp since release using s/d s/p d/p (it is, hands down, better than d/d) and, yes, p/d. I’d love to see p/p as a viable alternative to p/d or at least as a viable offset, while also reducing the trolling and skillless/riskless play from d/p. Please read my OP first, stealth is fine, but make reward=risk. Usage of cnd to gain stealth doesn’t nerf the thief, it just requires actual thinking.

Also this thread isn’t about warriors but since you seem to insist: you already have a blind in terms of #3. Yes you couldn’t spam blinds anymore but i guess we all agree that spamming requires no thought at all, leading to easy to use, yet very strong classes, like the d/p in certain situations is.
So, while maintaining a blind without cd, you also have an easy to reapply poison.
That counters not only the warriors healing, but also his ability to cleanse conditions while keeping him infight, making resetting easier.

Please explain how that buffs warriors.

Also i could go ahead and do another compilation of all the stupid things you have said in the course of past months but i guess everyone who frequents the forums knows what kind of a clown you are.

Paulo.8459:

I tried a 10/x/x/x/30 build for a while. Relies less on stealth, has high condition damage, low steal cooldown, decent healing (and a little damage) through mug, as well as the poison on steal and 10% condition duration.
I added 20 in acrobatics for dodging/mobility and condition removal through pain response.
I don’t like to rely on stealth completely. I’m just testing this, and while probably being inferior to 30 in shadow arts i think it has potential, mainly with D/D offhand.

Edit: of course you can add 30 in shadow arts to the build, but like i said, im trying to find alternatives to stealth.

You were talking about d/d offset: My assumption was that your mainhand must be something with pistol offhand since it wouldn’t be relevant to the topic otherwise and good/reliant access to stealth since you stated that you don’t want to completely rely on it, that rules s/p and p/p out, leaving d/p.

I’d consider d/p condition highly unconventional and subpar in comparison to
p/d, even with the gimmicky access to poison. Sure, you can play how you want but that doesn’t make it any more valid.

Fps is limited by your cpu and the engine itself. Even if the game utilized crossfire,
you won’t see much more than 25-30 fps on absolute high end machines.
In really huge zergs my machine (gtx670 and i7-3770k@4.3ghz) can’t get above 20fps.

Paulo.8459:

I still see no reason to change it.
As i said, it is fine as it is, besides from stealth stacking in WvW.

The skill is not too strong and not too weak. It’s a defensive skill meant as a little counter to melee classes.

For condition builds, i see enough poison on thiefs. With 30 in trickery (+300 condidmg btw.) steal is on a ~21sec cooldown. 10 points in deadly arts for mug also includes a 11 second poison with steal. Thats already 50% uptime.
Spider venom adds a very, very long poison. Venoms are not so good right now, so i think it would make more sence to change/buff venoms to gain more acces to poison and conditions in general.
And as you already said, shortbow offers another poison field, wich would be:
1. cheaper than your black powder proposal
2. by far longer poison duration
3. 900 range aoe
4. larger poison field

To me its quite pointless to change it into another poison field, although i really like the idea of D/P using weakness to mitigate damage and prevent the enemy from dodging.

The S/P set would also be much weaker than it is now. Many people already think the set is weaker than the other ones (personally i think it’s fine). The blind field is very useful for stomping, since S/P doesn’t have access to stealth i think this is a very good alternative for saver stomping.

While i do agree that thieves have several possible ways of applying poison they are all on a long cooldown. As you said poisons are extremely underpowered and even with 10/x/x/x/30 (maybe my knowledge is dated in that regard but i don’t know any build that works with this point distribution – mostly 0/0/30/20/20 or 20/0/30/20/0)

Also the current cond removal in the game is quite high; while 50% uptime sounds fine on paper it will just be cleansed after a few seconds and has quite a long cooldown (even with 30 trickery -> 40 points wasted for an easily countered gimmick)
My proposed changes could make poison an easy to apply condition, that, despite
frequent cleanses, can do what it’s supposed to without being too strong because it stacks in duration, not intensity.

Stooperdale.3560:

You unfortunately have no idea what you are suggesting. Please learn how the thief class works and then come back (or even better, don’t come back).

More modest solutions to heartseeker spam have already been suggested by the thief community and you could read them and learn.

What exactly do you disagree with? Where does it supposedly show that i have no idea
about the class? What do i need to learn to fully understand thief class mechanics?

Please elaborate and not just throw insults in my direction.

Edit: Also please read the whole thing. I wanted to adress several issues with my suggestion, HS spam was only a small part.

crouze.3078:

i dont like it. it would not have enough impact and takes one of the best defensive abilities the thief has away.

if you want p/p to become a more viable condition set, then start with reworking unload.

something like reducing the damage and make each hit apply a different condition.
1st hit: immobilize 0.5 seconds
2nd hit: vulnerability 3 seconds
3rd hit: chilled 2 seconds
4th hit: bleed 3 seconds
5th hit: poison 3 seconds
6th hit: torment 3 seconds
7th hit: burning 2 seconds
8th hit: confusion 2 seconds

And then give us a rifle to deal single target physical damage.

Hm point taken.
However as i said there are multiple goals, which can all be achieved by changing just one thing. I do agree that a blind field is a strong defensive mechanic but not on a spammable weapon ability. The HS combo is easily abused in WvW and brings great rewards for little to no risk. As i said, stealth is fine, but make access to it something the player has to put actual effort into. D/d is still useless; it would get more significance with this rework.

Also posion eliminates the need for a shortbow against healing heavy classes, leaving thieves with much more flexibility in terms of another weaponset, which again, can be used for its unique defensive (and offensive) means.

Your UL rework doesn’t even sound good on paper since it just promotes skill spamming with every condition applied for a very short duration. With poison (and possibly bleed on UL) on BP you know what you get instead of a mashup of 8 different conditions which is equal to rng cond. on hit – doensn’t promote planning ahead and thoughtful use of skills imho as neither you nor the enemie (UL is longer than 1dodge) knows what conditions end up being applied.

Excalibur.9748:

i don’t play D/P but it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that making the smoke field into a poison field is a huge nerf. considering that smoke field is the best field for thief…

poison is bugged anyways, it only works half the time.

Read the whole thing, then post again please.

Just wondering, since I see many responses in this subforum and the pvp one
but nowhere else.

Paulo.8459:

Why do you even want to change it?
Asides from stealth stacking in WvW black powder is perfectly fine.

Please read my post; there are multiple reasons.
Amongst others making p/p a viable cond set, diversifying specc. defense mechanics,
preventing d/p from taking the same niche as d/d thus leaving it useless and helping thieves gain access to the much needed poison without shortbow in order to counter
classes that rely on steady but low healing.

a t s e.9614:

Wow ….. just wow QQ about a worthless class in PvP used only for troll purposes . What about removing healing signet and the hammer from the warrior ? .

The same goes for you: read first, then post.
I play a thief myself, this is not qq, just a proposal and i don’t want anything changed, i want input from other players telling me where they agree/disagree. Also a posion without weapon swap would immensely help against warrior heal. It can be considered a buff against this particular playstyle.

Really? You moved it to the thief forums? I deliberately posted it in general discussions to get input from other classes as well… Main point of the rework was to make fighting thieves fun again while still maintaining their survivability.

D/P Impact against other players in general:
With the double dagger setup taking back the assassin niche, d/p would become more of a dagger-acrobat duelist with many means of defense (while contrary to S/D still having valid options for stealth). The most obvious being the usage of HS to gain distance. The second being a spammable (!) daze. The third (not counting stealth) would be weakness. While destroying anything that has to heal itself through poison, the field can also be used to apply weakness to enemy. With the recent buff this condition received it is an excellent defense not only against melee but also ranged attacks. The HS leap finisher makes it really easy to apply due to its sheer range. The fourth is Shadow Shot #3 which blinds. Thieves actually have to use their blind carefully (while still being able to use it multiple times).

[Additional note] d/p would stay a direct damage set, the poison only serves as counter to healers and defensive weakness application

This leads to a greater diversity in thief speccs because it gives every weapon set a different means of defense:

S/D and SB: evade and teleport
D/D: stealth and HS-spamming
P/D: stealth and kiting through #2immob.plus possible caltrops cripple and distance through #3
S/P: teleport and evade on #3
D/P: HS-spamming and weakness (50% glancing on all attacks is a valid means of defense) plus blind on #3 to avoid strong attacks
P/P: immob. on #2 and daze to interrupt strong attacks

Let’s also not forget that every thief can choose the benefits of two of the listed sets
plus utilities and healing abilities (at least two of which serve as utilities through stealth and immob. breaking).

/discuss

D/P Impact on WvW gameplay:
Fighting thieves will cease to be a mixture of agony and frustration with the other part either being dead or left alone while the thief runs off stealthed. You want stealth? Fine, use utilities or get up close and personal to land a CnD with the other party being able to actual counter your intent.
At this point some people will usually argue that you also can counter the leap combo by standing in the Black Powder.
I ask you this: Is it fair that the other player has to chose between being hit with a heartseeker, (which in many cases hurts really badly or leads to downed state since it can be set up when both parties are at a low amount of health) twice(the first one will hit and stealth the thief but not reveal. Only should the thief spam HS it will connect a second time and reveal plus hit again) plus being blinded or letting the opponent stealth to either run off or hit with backstab.
That’s not counterplay, that is choosing how you want your damage delivered.

I also want to point out that it is still possible to CnD off structures so thieves can still infiltrate enemy territory and scout.

D/P Impact on PvE:
D/p needs a great deal of positioning and lacks cleave, thus is not often used in PvE. I’ve seen it used in dungeons to make the party immune-ish against groups of melee mobs. Being used as a blind-bot is not my idea of fun and kind of defeats the purpose of skilled play. (yes, even in PvE, plus good groups don’t need that anyway) Poison makes it possible to weaken the enemies which also dampens the damage by a tremendous amount while still requiring the party to not just stand in one spot and spam attacks. For further information on how to circumvent the loss of AoE blinds, please refer to the part further below.

D/P Impact on sPvP gameplay:
Due to its reliance on stealth and tiny maps, d/p is not often played in PvP (as far as I have seen).
Well, honestly I don’t think my suggestions could make it that much more valid but
it is a known fact that poison destroys anything reliant on healing.
33% doesn’t sound like much but it definitely makes a difference and with the current amount of warriors we have in PvP this setup can really help since they rely solely on passive healing.
With a spammable poison field (let’s not forget possible combos through whirls and projectiles of other players) warriors can be shut down pretty well.
I know that there is a poison field on SB #4 but why give up a great deal of flexibility (i.e. second weapon set). My solution would provide pros and cons for using pistol offhand instead of a short bow, thus leaving SB as a valid option:

Pro:
-One more weapon set to use
-daze on #4
-1 sec. longer duration
Con:
-Costs 1 initiative more than choking gas(or not? please refer to the first part of my post)
-Radius only half of choking gas (120 possibly; missing skill fact of BP) -> overall area covered only 1/4
-Not ranged
People who still want to use stealth are welcome to go back to d/d. With the much smaller maps there is absolutely no reason to not being able to hit a CnD.

Preserving the blind field:
For people who like to preserve the current d/p playstyle there is also a second smoke field available to the thief in terms of smoke screen which also provides excellent defensive means against melee through blind and ranged attack through projectile blocking. Its duration is 7 seconds with a cooldown of 30/24 seconds, so yes, not spammable. Yet again my proposition would promote thinking and actual skilled play. You can still HS-stealth but have to give up a utility slot for this option, the way it should have been from the start.

[Disclaimer]
I’m posting this thread here to get input not only from thieves but also from players of other professions and from different game types. Since the changes would affect pve/wvw and pvp it is in my opinion best to label it as “general”. I’d further like to point out that I play a thief myself. Also English is not my native tongue; Should you find grammatical errors, please do not hesitate to show me so I can edit my post.

Hello everybody,
I’d like to discuss some ideas for the thief in order to bring him in line with other professions while not weakening his position in sPvP and tPvP.
First let me say that I believe, the way the PvP team has chosen is a good one.
It is important to make small steps and not revamp big parts of a professions mechanics/traits
and abilities at once to prevent major imbalances.
For this reason I’d like to concentrate on one ability in particular:

Black powder:
Cost: 6 initiative
Duration: 4secs.
Activation: 1/2 sec

As you most likely know the possible weapon combinations are
(not counting p/d since my focus is BP) p/p d/p and s/p.

My suggestion is to change the ability “black powder” to a poison field instead of a
blinding field with a duration of 5 seconds (maybe more/less – open for discussion)
and a poison stack of 2 (maybe 3?) seconds/tick with one tick/second while costing 5 initiative
(possibly 4?)

Impact on weapon setups are as follows:

Pistol/Pistol:
Would benefit greatly from this change.
Aside from d/d cond. which in my opinion is subpar our only option for conditions is p/d.
The problem I see with this setup is the lack of actual conditions other than bleed.
Yes there is vulnerability for 3(!) seconds on #2 which will also receive an immobilize and 2 lousy stacks of torment on #3 which requires the thief to get in melee range.
Still the only really damaging condition is bleed and with the current condition removal in the game
this isn’t enough. #5 poison could change that.
Black powder shot would hit for one guaranteed stack of poison (the way BP works is as follows: the ability first lays down the combo field, then shoots a projectile with 100% combo finisher at the target) and could further be combo’ed with unload for an average of 1-2 additional applications (4-6 seconds, not counting additional duration through traits/runes and the actual poison field) per use.

I am aware of the fact that the defensive capabilities of this set are limited but also like to point out that one can use two weapon sets at all time and still gain access to stealth through traits, Hide in shadows and utility skills.

[Additional note] (in order to make p/p a real alternative for cond. users it could also include
the reduction of unloads direct damage with a 50% chance of bleed application per projectile (8 in total) or upping the projectile finisher chance from 20% to 40%.

Sword/Pistol:
Not really affected.
Used mainly for leveling the sole purpose is to facetank a horde of enemies unable to touch the thief while spamming pistol whip. The thief would not be untouchable anymore and actually has to think how to kill his enemies. Let’s not forget that the channeled part of pistol whip still has the attached evade plus cleave. The only difference would be that the user has to watch out while using the skills slashing part (still able to move). It should go without notice that the additional poison damage helps killing foes even faster.

Dagger/Pistol:
Greatly affected, for better or worse depending on point of view.
The ultimate troll; greatly overpowered in terms of WvW/roaming, not due to its damage output, which by all means is fine as is, but by its riskless access to long durations of stealth. Now I don’t view stealth as something bad but with this particular setup the risk is non existent while the reward is being invisible (!) and gaining access to the hardest hitting single strike ability in the game (while not being revealed for missing, but that’s another thread).

Currently there are two weapon sets that fulfill the same roll: d/p and d/d with
pistol offhand being the superior version. My proposed change to BP serves multiple purposes. Firstly d/d would become the assassination specc. again. Yes, thieves still have access to stealth but this time with a catch. For actual reward you have to take a risk. No more stealth stacking through leap finishers, which not only is in line with the initial design decision by Anet to make stealth a short duration buff to set up damage or escape but also eliminates said non existence of a risk.

Riverside [DE] kills him every single day multiple times
with a fail rate of <10%. In the open world, so no overflow.
No organised guilds, just some commanders who organise
the huge PUG. After almost every kill we port to southsun and kill the queen.

I couldn’t play during boss week but since i got to play again a couple of days ago
i got the title for teq and killed him plus the queen every day at least once.

There is no problem with the content, it’s the community on your server that is lacking…

behold the mighty thread necro. nerf plx!

Cultural armor is for asthetics, not for stats.

/thread

Excalibur.9748:

^^^^ No war doesn’t suck. Every single person that has rerolled warrior is happy with it and I don’t know of anyone who actually said warrior sucked after trying it out. The common scenario is commenting on how easy it is to do well on a warrior and remarking that they’re better on the warrior than the main they spent hundred of hours on.

You obviously don’t play a warrior

No I play a war. Shout healing is getting buffed too on oct. 15

When did i say warrior sucked?
Easy to learn; yes. But also easily outplayed.

Again, shouts take up a utility slot, you are giving up something else in favor of them. Geez, what’s so hard to understand about that. On the other hand,
you also said that a thief should also win against a warrior, no matter the circumstances. (Actual quote!)

Excalibur.9748:

Withdraw can be utilised to remove immob and if i remember correctly other movement impairing effects. HIS also stealths you for 3/4 secs, which lets you mitigate a lot of damage. You already said it yourself; completely passive.
Why are people like you so ignorant and simply don’t get that this means
we don’t have healing on demand?

Shout healing, not that wars need it with that much HPS.

Ah yes, i suppose you are talking about those imbalanced 5utility-slot warriors….
To get a worthwhile amount of healing (say, comparable to an active heal) without healingpower one would need to slot 3 shouts… You obviously don’t play a warrior
but i’ll just go ahead and say that there’s a reason you never see that.

There is always a tradeoff.
Take mending for example, no passive, slightly lesser heal, cond removal.
Surge – Low heal when adrenaline is low but fills it up, on the other hand you have wasted adrenal potential but higher heal when used at 3 bars. No cond removal.
Signet – No active heal, yes hps might be good but a lot is wasted due to full hp bar when ooc, you don’t get to chose when you heal thus making it vulnerable to
poison. No cond removal.

Yes but they are underpowered compared to healing signet. Or healing signet is overpowered compared to them. It’s the latter.

People take the signet because it fits the bunkering playstyle.

Not true. Every single warrior takes the healing signet now. It’s all you ever see.

Because everyone plays highly defensive. The warrior has a variaty of working
setups but all of them require the player to rely on defense, rather than offense.

And btw did it ever occur to the people here that you might see so many warriors
in pvp because the forums (and ofc ingame chat as well) get spammed by people claiming them to be OP?

True, but that’s inevitable. Once a class gets that OP, it’s bound to get bandwagoned.

We tell people to roll a warrior because it’s the best way to deal with the current situation especially considering it only takes minutes at most to reroll.

You just confirmed what i said: You say it’s OP – people read it’s OP – people try it out – they suck. They go back to something else after a while. Doesn’t prove anything.

Devs also said that warrior is in a good spot for pvp right now so don’t expect nerfs anytime soon.

And this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Be-calm-and-stop-the-Warrior-qq

istariwk.8312:

bobomb.5209:

Dand.8231:

SonOfKrypton.4357:

Worrior OP, Nerfpl0x
Kk, OPclass, kkty.

Obvious troll is obvious.

I thought he was joking in the title and was going to talk about the idiots that think the warrior is OP, but i see he is one of them >.> but seriously though the warrior stun build is completely negated with stun breaks! if your build doesn’t have a stun break you aren’t going to do very well against a build made for stuns ._.

Is a stun breaker going to save any1 against ur insane burst?:O

Actually it is because you can just move out if the way while the warrior
is waving his giant sword about, hitting nothing but air, duh…

Excalibur.9748:

Lighter.5631:

Excalibur.9748:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Excalibur.9748:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Excalibur.9748:

just reroll a warrior, all the cool kids are doing it.

This.

Or a thief, mesmer…

Or wait to the patch notes were will be introduced more counters to CC.

those classes don’t have healing signet.

Thats the point… They dont need one.

They won’t be as good as the war w/o it though.

LOL, why are you still here, you still don’t feel embarrassed because of all the stupidity you have posted? thieves and mesmers with healing signet will die like paper, if you actually know your job better.

You’re the one who is clueless. If thief got healing signet every single thief would be using it. The HPS is more than twice as good as withdraw, HIS etc. All this completely passive and no way to interrupt.

Withdraw can be utilised to remove immob and if i remember correctly other movement impairing effects. HIS also stealths you for 3/4 secs, which lets you mitigate a lot of damage. You already said it yourself; completely passive.
Why are people like you so ignorant and simply don’t get that this means
we don’t have healing on demand?

There is always a tradeoff.
Take mending for example, no passive, slightly lesser heal, cond removal.
Surge – Low heal when adrenaline is low but fills it up, on the other hand you have wasted adrenal potential but higher heal when used at 3 bars. No cond removal.
Signet – No active heal, yes hps might be good but a lot is wasted due to full hp bar when ooc, you don’t get to chose when you heal thus making it vulnerable to
poison. No cond removal.

People take the signet because it fits the bunkering playstyle.
And btw did it ever occur to the people here that you might see so many warriors
in pvp because the forums (and ofc ingame chat as well) get spammed by people claiming them to be OP?

Loading.4503:

actually as a hammer warrior, d/p thieves are cake (or for me), you just gotta earthshaker correctly onto them, u have to aim the edge of your earthshaker on the thief so you don’t land on their black powder that way you don’t get blinded and stun them.

The op was aking about p/d, not d/p. Completely different playstyle and sources of damage. Counters war hard due to blind on stealth and insane cond damage.
Cleansing ire is fine and all but you gotta land those first with all those blinds+
you can be kited pretty easily.

Excalibur.9748:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Excalibur.9748:

just reroll a warrior, all the cool kids are doing it.

This.

Or a thief, mesmer…

Or wait to the patch notes were will be introduced more counters to CC.

those classes don’t have healing signet.

…but have great burst potential, which is a direct counter to the signet
as you don’t have an activated heal. Don’t forget the poison.
I’ve heard that helps a lot

I play both and yes, p/d counters warriors pretty hard.
Don’t bother fighting as he can get away any time if he is losing
and you will just be worn down over time.
On the plus side – p/d isn’t really good at chasing fleeing targets.

Avelos.6798:

20 fps is about as good as you’ll get in zvz.

As i said; max settings and not optimally overclocked.
I’m sure i can get more, hence the question regarding demanding settings
and oc potential.

No arguing that the game is horribly optimized
and the engine is a bad joke but still…

Hi there, today i got a new i7-3770k and immediatly tried it out in wvw.

The framerate ranges from ~120 on max settings when not many people are around
to mid 20’s in a full on zerg v zerg.

Basically i have three questions:

1. What are the most demanding graphics settings so i can try to turn them down
to increase my zvz experience?

2. Does the BIOS menu i can enter when my pc is booting
depend on my cpu or my motherboard? Maybe if i knew this somebody
here could help me with…

3. Currently my cpu is overclocked to 4.1ghz (up from 3.5 with 3.9 on turbo).
I know my cooling system is good enough to handle even more and my power supply
is also capable of handling more. I’d love to go up to 4.3ghz
but i don’t know what i have to alter in my bios menu to supply my fans (if that’s even needed) and my cpu with more power and how much i need exactly
since i’m assuming too low will result in very bad performance and too much
will damage the components.

Thanks in advance!

Lorgus.6148:

The saving lord Faren under 3 minutes bit isn’t easy to do solo. I’d recommend getting a group for that part, making a post on gw2lfg asking specifically for it.

As for soloing without dying – I’ve done it on my 80 mesmer, took a few tries, and I brought in folks on the last boss because I was always getting downed with scarlet at 10% hp.

What gear are you running? I was full zerk and seemed to always be low on health, I know it works great in a party, but if you’re soloing maybe you should mix in some soldier’s gear?

lolwut? i saved him on my first try ever. Didn’t even know what to expect since i didn’t read any guides or anything. Warrior solo, Faren achievement and not dying too.
Sorry but i can’t see how anyone would find that difficult.

Excalibur.9748:

Also like I explained a few times already but warrior is good/OP at everything, and thief is ONLY good at roaming so reason stands that thief should be better at roaming….maybe NOT win everytime but at least 90%+ of the time.

Oh come on. You have to be trolling. Where is warrior op? Wvw? That’s a team activity,
the warrior has subpar support. Solo Roaming? Your pseudo duelling in open zones is not pvp and as such not handled like pvp balance wise.
Pve. Yes, the warrior can dish out a lot of damage in dungeons and tag a lot of mobs
in the open world. OP? That’s non of your concern since you don’t have to compete with them. Don’t want a group of elitists? gw2lfg.com there you go, also cofp1
has been nerfed.
spvp? Guards are better bunkers, sustain without this build is laughable
and so is damage since the only damaging ability is 1hblades and you needto eat the whole thing. It’s only good in 1v1 since in a group fight stunning only 1 person (4secs) as opposed to, say, 3 (secs each) with earthshaker is stupid, and everybody with at least one working eye and half a brain can see that one coming.

Bottom line: CC is good, especially in 1v1. stop QQing about something the games is
not designed around (duelling).

Celtus.8456:

Crovax.7854:

Celtus.8456:

Argue all you want, warrior is the latest to join the passive/spam-to win professions. Can easily play warrior now without using anything except 1-5, F1 and dodge. (Yes you can still play your warrior without this style, and yes it may not translate to ‘top’ tier pvp winning, but the point remains).

The only thing passive is the heal. Maybe 4sec regen on movement impairs every
10secs but that’s it if i recall correctly. Besides, what are you doing against conditions
with only 1-5? Cleansing ire? Good luck landing a burst with every other profession
taking a dump of conditions on your head.

Regen, passive perma swiftness, cleansing ire condition clearing every 8-10 secs while doing massive spike damage from bursts (other professions usually need to stop/slow dpsing to clear conditions…), etc. Every update recently has been a power creep for warriors (and a couple other professions, while everyone else sinks).

Haha yeah, it’s not as if conditions are easily reapplied amirite?!
The counter to this build are conditions, survive zerk stance and you are good to go.
Warriors movement options are laughable.

Celtus.8456:

Argue all you want, warrior is the latest to join the passive/spam-to win professions. Can easily play warrior now without using anything except 1-5, F1 and dodge. (Yes you can still play your warrior without this style, and yes it may not translate to ‘top’ tier pvp winning, but the point remains).

The only thing passive is the heal. Maybe 4sec regen on movement impairs every
10secs but that’s it if i recall correctly. Besides, what are you doing against conditions
with only 1-5? Cleansing ire? Good luck landing a burst with every other profession
taking a dump of conditions on your head.

Excalibur.9748:

Crovax.7854:

Excalibur.9748:

Didn’t watch video but the recurring theme is if you beat a warrior, then “look warrior is not OP you beat him” and if you lose then “L2P noob. adapt.”

Hey Fenrir, do you still have the compilation of all the quotes from this guy with which
he embarrassed himself. You know, just so the people here can decide for themselves
wether to listen to certain individuals or not.

That’s called trolling bro, which got his topic closed the first time.

Besides, my posting history has nothing to do with this. Especially since I didn’t do anything wrong.

As i said, it serves to show people your opinion on that matter bro
I remember a particular one where you stated that thief should always
come out on top against warriors for whatever reason. Another one where you claimed to win against warriors almost always and another one where you admitted that you are a mediocre player. So what does that tell us?

I’ve always wanted to respond with a haiku so here I go!

Warriors are OP
Dodging more effectively
Huge animation

bravo. +1 from me

Excalibur.9748:

Didn’t watch video but the recurring theme is if you beat a warrior, then “look warrior is not OP you beat him” and if you lose then “L2P noob. adapt.”

Hey Fenrir, do you still have the compilation of all the quotes from this guy with which
he embarrassed himself. You know, just so the people here can decide for themselves
wether to listen to certain individuals or not.

Daecollo.9578:

WHY ISN’T THIS THIEF USING STEALTH Cleanse+Heals, WHY IS HE DOING SO LITTLE DAMAGE?

Bad Thief is bad. Sorry.

If your not a stealth thief then your not a thief.

°beebeepbeep° My sarcasm detector is going crazy over here. I wonder what might have caused that :/

katniss.6735:

The regen is OP in WvW.

And nobody cares about wvw because it’s not pvp, it’s wvw

Coloxeus.3480:

look how OP their heal/condition with 3.4k Armor . almost can heal 1.2k HP/ sec with inspiring banner trait

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q58u1ygJU3Q

What a shame. From the thief community side i was under the impression you were supposed to be somewhat decent but all i can see is 3 spam and dodging nothing.
Well, it seems the skill requirements for thieves this days isn’t exactly that high…

dovrak.4376:

peter.9024:

Crovax.7854:

Sanny.1270:

stab/blind/dodge are all poor arguments on how to counter.

Why?

Because they require skill to use.

Yeah because your stun/burst combo requires lot of skill lol. Not to mention your kittened selfhealing allows you to repeat and repeat this same stuff, allowing to make mistakes whitout even worry about your health.
Edit: 20k views gratz.

Three words: ‘No active heal’.

And increase the QQ we already have?
Just use signet of might if you are conderned about your bursts not hitting.

Sanny.1270:

Crovax.7854:

Sanny.1270:

stab/blind/dodge are all poor arguments on how to counter.

Why?

since it can be applied to anything in this game not just specifically to counter SC. if by the logic of just blind/stab/dodge ect ect nothing in gw2 should ever be adjusted, anything that is considered OP or is OP can simply just be avoided all the time.

Flawed argument imo. Cond spam can in fact not be blocked and evaded only to some degree. Stability is meant to be a counter against disables.
The point with blind is one attack misses.
Blind is meant to be a counter against spike abilities that hit hard in one strike.
Earthshaker is such an ablity. Backstab is, although a missed bs should break stealth imho but that’s another discussion.

SC is the only ability on a warrior that is hard to see coming so please don’t tell me
it’s so difficult to 1) kite the warrior or 2) if you see him coming close use either stab.
blind block or evade.

That’s also why the current meta is so terrible. You get a constant stream of conditions.
If you dodge, well you didn’t receive any for the few frames but are packed once the dodge ends. Necro wells are unblockable and even if you block other abilities with a channeled block, you can’t do anything in the meantime. Aegis acts like a blind as
it only negates one hit. There is supposed to be a counter to anything like
it is with warrior now but to this constant cond spam there is nearly none.
Why do you think people are complaining?