Guild Wars 2

Well, their explanation was something like increase skill requirements or something on thieves, so they probably ment pvp… the joke is, the nerf does nothing but decrease skill floor for enemies. Right now half smart person will just walk out of BP and continue attack, the stupid person will sit in BP and wonder why he can’t hit anything.

Come the patch, even most braindead clicker will be able to attack thief w/o any problems while sitting in BP. Amazing logic, Anet! /slowclap.

If they really wanted increase skill requirements on thief, they should have removed blind shot from BP (kind of funny to type that one out considering how every other class goes low risk high reward mode: full bunker, runs in circles and mindlessly spams AoE; but thieves have to have high skill flooor. Once again, amazing logic looooooooooooooool).

As far as pve goes, it kind of sucks, but if Anet wants to remove the little team utility thieves have, oh well… most ppl run warriors anyway :/

P.S. traps, venoms etc., more than half of the traits are still a joke~

coglin.1867:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Mayama.1854:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Just pointing out a few things:

1.) There is no such thing as “perma” anything for the thief. If a thief was “perma-resetting” they would be immortal which is just exaggerating a falacy..

Thieves can reset at will as often as they want. To proof it you just need to watch a twitch or youtube video from any decent thief. I mean theirs even a good example on the thief forum right now, the video of that engi that duels P/D thieves. In every single video the thief constantly reseted the fight and only died because he overextended or did a stupid mistake. Its known throughout the community that a thief can reset as often as he wants if he knows what he does.

That still isn’t perma-resetting.

Secondly, resetting is a double-edged sword since both parties get reset; not to mention that if the thief keeps resetting, it means that the other player is superior. All said player has to do is manage their snares better and up their DPS and they will get their kill. So there shouldn’t be a problem here.

Yeah it kinda is “perma-resetting” in this context.

As far as the “double edge sword” aspect, thats is not the case. Which is in itself the problem. A thief not skilled enough to kill another play can keep “perma-resetting” and try again all they like. That is an option that no other profession has. No other profession can play badly AND get away with it by resetting to try again. When other professions play badly, they die.

my necro with her 2 HP bars and 50k in plague would like a word with you
same goes for any warrior with healing signet, cleansing ire and dogged march, especially nike build

BrunoBRS.5178:

Bryzy.2719:

@OP

I’m not sure thieves will get much sympathy on the profession balance forum. Certainly not from me, that’s for sure. I personally can’t wait to start mowing them down in WvW with the post-patch rapid fire. Their QQ tears will be like a fine wine on a mild summer’s evening.

and that’s why you’re not in the balance team. “i just want thieves to be useless to i can mow them down easily in literally the only area they aren’t useless”

the joke is balance team seems to think exactly this way judging by the patches for the past year and the future patch… idk what devs are thinking but patches speak for themself

Mayama.1854:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Mayama.1854:

nickxnickx.5401:

Chicago Jack.5647:

nickxnickx.5401:

Should it not? Should thieves stand back most the time and attack from a distance.
You understand we need gap closers..

They should be able to zone people out, of course, but all forms of thief – as with any class – should be able to be peeled away. S/D is nefarious in being extremely difficult to peel. People get frustrated over this because it means, like the warrior with their beserker stance, they have easy capability to tunnel vision. Fortunately thieves have a way more active playstyle than warriors. However S/D’s defensive structure shuts down an overwhelming amount of possible peeling mechanics. The bruiser, dodging spec is fun and should be in the game, but it has to be easier to peel it away.

Thieves are almost lack luster in everything they have. The more you’re able to peel away from them, takes away they’re whole class aspect of being “pesky”, as well as, nerfs the crap out of them. Reason being.. if a thief is not near you, what are you doing? – attacking.

So being able to peel away from a thief. Specifically a S/D thief (one of few weapon sets) will just make the thief an even more defeat able target.

However, if a thief is on you, it gives the thief a chance when you’re burning dodges.

Sure it makes thieves tunnel vision someone, but do thieves really have an alternative to not? (aoe abilities?)

Beeing lackluster in any other aspect is no reason to give a class in an mmorpg the tool s to do one thing super well. Look ive played some mmorpg PvP and other games have stuff like mages that can one shot anyone, they cant do anything else. Is it balanced? Nope because it removes any counterplay.

good things thieves aren’t like that, huh?

thief’s strong point is 1v1. sadly, it also happens to be the only thing we’re not sub-par at. meanwhile, most other classes have more than one strong point and more than one weak point, depending on how they build.

It just frustraiting that mmorpg devs dont learn. Look at WoW, the most popular mmorpg ever, they have frost mages. Its quite similar to the gw2 thief, very elusive, high burst, no sustain damage and very good at controling enemies. Its the major pain in the kitten in that games PvP. You cant tell me thatt the gw2 devs dont know that but they designed the thief class in the exact same way.

This is disinformation right here, mages were so strong not only because of their high dmg but amount of CC they had, they could keep someone CCd for 1+ min if they tried. Thieves NOWHERE nearly have such amount of controll, 1.5 sec stun on 45 sec CD and maybe mini immob from sword (that actually costs initiative, basically putting other spells on CD) can hardly considered CC bomb like mages were. Heck, even rogues in Wow had absurd amount of CC compared to thieves in GW2.

There is no class in wow you could compare thieves to, thieves in this game have conditional stealth (not perma), they are very mobile and high dmg potetial with some ranged options but that is where it ends.
Rogues for example were also squishy but they had perma stealth, high amount of CC, high dmg, bad/mediocre moblity (compared to other classes in wow) and with only ranged dmging spell. People played rogues as peel bot with burst on demand for arena not as scout/assassin like thieves are in this game.

Linnael.1069:

Supply drop and thieves guild are two of the best elites in the game. Try to be considerate to others and not post on this forum if you’re just going to mislead people.

lmao i just died….. the only time thief guild is any good if you are trying to solo champion… it is horrendous for pvp, wvw and in speed runs in pve

Volrath.1473:

Thief here and not 1 day goes by without getting this bug at least once…

so much this^^

probably 30% of my deathes in pvp come either from that bug or the uneven terrain port bug

usually happens when you get CCd (immobs trigger that bug for me almost every time, stuns are second on the list) and use some kind of teleport (be it shadowstep to break stun or steal), can’t move untill you type /dance or die :/

wow all this people are still playing… daaamn

I understand the analogy to hiding ranks (which i think is somehow justified, given how ppl just stack up teams in HJ) but OP must be kidding. Especially considering his last 2 sentences.

Define “PVE scrub” please. Just because some ppl don’t focus only on one aspect of the game doesn’t mean they are “scrubs”, in fact they probably have more experience with game mechanics and teamplay than players who focus purely on pvp.

I am assuming there are still too many people playing thieves and devs will keep throwing harsh nerfs at thieves disregard the player opnion untill people reroll something else and “improve” statistics (all speculations though).

I remember some developer (from LoL i think) said, consistently throwing nerfs at same class/champion will just lead to frustration and instead of balance you will just have players quit game. I don’t think Anet understands it.

The joke is thieves are not that even that broken as people claim, i can fairly well deal with them on my warrior or necro, given i play thief myself and know how to counter them. They are certanly waaaaay easier to deal with than any other classs in this game (besides staff ele maybe).

I also think consistently buffing engis is wrong move, engis are already really strong in pvp, the reason they are not so much played is because they are not so great in pve and simply thematically they are boring for most players. I personally would never main engi simply because i find it boring and annoying no matter how much Anet buffs them.

Mesmer scepter AA buff is just stupid, besides some minority nobody supports that change, even mesmers themself (look at forums and in game chat). Attaching strongest condi to AA that has 0 risk and 0 costs is like worst thing they could have done.

As far as dagger cleave goes, it actually gonna hurt thieves more than help them. People who think it is huge buff never tried to play sword/x thief, the cleave often kills the thief due to retal, clone death etc, than helps them. I am all against that change tbh.

BP should have just blind shot removed and aoe stay untouched, the change comming next balancing patch promotes nothing but skilless gameplay from enemy that can just completely ignore BP and sit afk in blind field, it not even remotely anywhere increases skill requirement from the thief side.

I just can’t facepalm more at all this changes. There so many threads with good suggestions how to tune down strong spells and how to improve weak spells and yet devs decide to pull random changes majority of which makes 0 sense. Oh well, time to go back play League where devs actually care more about player opinion and balance is not so messed up.

Attach one of the strongest condition to AA that has 0 risk and 0 costs…. how is it remotely anywhere skillfull? What were they thinking?

Saw thief nerfs comming miles away because it is literary thieves ever get every patch, any actual buffs or just bug fixes is not an option and never was i guess.

Saw engi buffs comming miles away because that is all Anet ever does.

Torment on brainless scepter AA for mesmers though? Time to find a new game… any suggestions?

My bigger conern is not that thieves get nerfed every patch but the fact that anet never bothered to fix any issues that plagued thief class for years now. Probably 30% of my deathes in pvp come from port bug, around 10% from perma immob bug, sb bug etc etc.

I don’t think anything we say really matters since anet seems to be set on nerfing the class every patch w/o any meaningful buffs somewhere else while buffing every other class.

Just roll w/e is max cheese right now and enjoy the game. Unless you are amazing player or hipster, it won’t be worth playing thief looking at the trend of the past 2 years heh.

I love thief moblity, but every time i play my necro, warrior, mesmer i notice how much thieves are lacking in every other aspect.
In pve i would rather play my warrior since she brings more to team and more dmg in generall.
In wvw i almost always play my zerg support necro unless i roam.
PvP is only place where i play thief mostly but i feel like replacing her with guardian due to effectivness :/

aaand.. they are doing it again… :/

None of what you suggests resolves the issues that getting skin via pvp will be still easier than running (and getting to) high lv fractals every day and making content obsolete for reasons:

- you don’t need to grind/buy gear and 75AR in pvp
- you don’t need to grind lv 50 personal reward in pvp, you can argue about pvp ranks but we all know how easily those are obtained if you do it not exactly the intended way
- you can do tpvp alone, you often have to have few party members at least to be able to finish map (dredge, swamp etc.)

P.S. Also, this whole EU is better than NA thing cracks me out. Still has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that class balance is crap, ranks can be farmed etc.

i just hate the huge aoe range on combustive shot, it is double of the capture point and stays there for long time :/

make combustive shot require a target and hit on target, make healing signet work like signet of malice so warriors have actually work for their heals instead of just afk somewhere

i was chased by 3 ppl that couldn’t kill me for very long time while i was running around the temple pillar getting healing from HS + AH and spammed combustive shot whenever i could… it was just silly and shouldn’t be happening

Define lower levels, i been around top 100 and i fought Caed, Rar, Nothingg and co.

PvP in this game is still a joke, no matter what levels. There is handfull of players who are actually good (i am terrible compared to them ._. ), rest are just like everyone else playing max cheese you can sqeeze out of current crappy balance. Especially considering how only 1 game mode actually promotes bunkering and brainless aoe/ai spam on point. I do not believe that majority of pvp’ers really invest more or deserve fractal skins more than players running lv 50 every day.

Point is, adding fractal pvp track would make entire fractal content obsolete since getting those skins by just pvping (even with rank requirement) is still less investment than months of runs and hundrets of gold, not to mention organizing all those lv 50 runs just for the chance for the skin. If you think high lv fractals are such a joke, go ahead, run them, i highly doubt you will last long enough to reach 50 and actually get a skin.

I love pvp, i do not like doing fractals so much (nor pve for that matter) but after i invested so much time in fractals i can see how many ppl will be really (mildly put) unpleased if track was added and how fractals would die out as content.

I would rather look foward new rewards and skins from pvp.

Mayama.1854:

Advent.6193:

Mayama.1854:

Condition are meant to be the thieves weak spot, similar to engineers and warriors (well warriors seem to get away with everything nowadays).

I’d argue that low base health and minimal access to defensive boons are plenty of weakness. After all, how fast does a glass Thief melt?

It takes quite a LONG time to kill a thief so whats you problem?

warrior can kill a thief with 1 attack
necro can kill a thief with 1 fear
ele can kill a thief with 1 attack chain
guardian can kill a thief with like 2-3 GS spells
should i continue?

silentnight warrior.2714:

My sugestions will not deny thiefs to spaming skills. It will punish them from abusing some skills. And thiefs can do as other professions do, use other movement spells to negate the iniciative penality.
The only class you can “compare” in movement spells are Guardians with their ports, they do port, blind and then they have a CD.
In every other class their movements are not instant and they are affected with chill / criple (except mesmer with ports but even those have CD and necro in DS but that skill have a good tell and a CD).

Yes, your suggestion DOES deny thief spamming spells, they would have to masisvely buff numbers on those spells to make up for limited use of those which, trust me, nobody will like. It doesn’t matter if it should apply to some or all spells, the fact stays that those spells are kept weak BECAUSE they can be repeated.

You say, thieves should use their moblity spells to avoid initiative penality, which are? Please elaborate? If thief is locked in 1 weapon set, he has only 1 (port) spell. Also, read what i said: you can’t just take thief moblity away, they can’t survive being kited as other classes do, also other classes have viable ranged options while thieves don’t. Try to land a melee hit on anything while being chilled, especially backstab, i promise you you will want uninstall.

Um, thieves are also affected by chill, HS wouldn’t get you anywhere while you are chilled nor will you ever land backstab.

Thieves can do meaningful dmg only via melee SINGLE target spells, ranged spells are not an option (unlike for necro, mesmer, ele, ranger, guard to extend, warrior, engi).. so they have to stick to target. How do thieves deal with being kited?
- they have no stability to deal with knockbacks and fears (like guardians, warriors)
- their only reliable condi removal vs chilled/immob is either withdraw (which often displaces thief further away from target) or SA trait which bound to stealth which often requires melee hit and/or combination of spells which already punishes thief with initiative use
- they can’t just tank dmg while being kited (guards, warriors, necros, engis)
- they don’t have chain CC to keep someone in place (warriors, engis, necro, guards)
- they can’t just spam aoe and ranged like mentioned above
All they have is their mobility moves to stay on target. Take it away or nerf it in any way and thief is sitting duck doing 0 dmg and flipping over like a fly.

silentnight warrior.2714:

I didn´t complain about this. In fact the penality should only exist in combat mode. Out of combat thiefs should spam what they want.

Um, your suggestion directly affects thief moblity outside of combat, by a lot actually. Check IA costs please.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Actually thief can deny good positioning to other classes with ports (again one more strength with thiefs ports) and they will be buffed to deal damage to two targets at once and they dont said anything about decreasing damage on attacks so its a win for thiefs.

You have no idea what positional requirement on a thief is, do you? Check backtsab please. As far as dagger 2 target change is, it will literary only affect combat vs mesmer, i would rather have anet let dagger be single target and revert massive nerfs to thief survivability that will come with patch.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Steal is very strong but have a CD. I dont have problems with steal. (And traited steal is amazing)

You brought up steal as argument for your suggestions though. Thief F1 complements their moblity, warrior F1 complements their dmg, survival (if traited) and AoE (counter to kiting) etc., what’s your point? Let’s massively increase other classes CD because their F1 complements their strengh? Isn’t it what F1 spell suppose to do anyway? Blasphemy!

So let’s reward ppl for playing braindead build/class in pvp with 0 effort and gold investment? Because let’s face it, pvp in this game for most part is a joke and has barely anything to do with skill or effort for that matter (not to mention, that people always find unintentional ways farm ranks). Not that pve either but at least to run 50 fractals requires some commitment.

As said before, if fractal weapons were available in pvp no matter what rank, nobody would do fractals anymore.. so fractal track is not happening.

I am all up for skins that are only obtainable via pvp though.

Thief moblity
Thieves in this game
- do not have highest dmg
- have lowest HP pool
- medium armor
- no protection
- no aegis
- no reliable stability
- no reliable chain CC
- probably worst healing capacity
- worst ranged set (if you want to do any dmg you WILL have to go in melee)
- not best aoe dmg and coverage
- one of the worst group support capability
- unlike other classes have actual position requirement (see backstab) to do dmg
- don’t have persistent army of AI that can carry them (see engi)
- do not have ANY means to bunker in pvp (see guardians, banner warriors)

The ONLY reason why people take thieves in tpvp IS their moblity. They have terrible surivival compared to many other classes.
Nerfing mobility would make class absolutely undesired for any kind of pvp or wvw. They can’t bunker, other classes do more dmg than them, their aoe is pathetic, their condi pressure is a joke in comparison, they are not even best duelists and it is usually waste of time to attack point by yourself as thief.

What should thieves do if moblity was nerfed? People would just bring mesmers and more eles and thieves would be just deleted from pvp. Is that what you want to accomplish?

Spammable Spells
I think OP is missing the point that due to repeatable nature of the thief weapon spells, those spells are kept very weak in comparison to weapon sets of other classes. That is why thieves are often forced to chain few skills just to do anything meaningful.

Ability to reset
You complain that they can go in fight and out? What else should they do with tools Anet gave them? They can’t stand mid fight like guards or wars due lack of survival, they can’t really do much dmg from far like engis or eles (cmon sb is so beaten it is a joke of weapon set now, literary only reason to use it is IA and pp was never viable, tnks anet).

Ability to stay on target
You have issue with their “stickiness” to the target? Well, their most dmg comes from melee(and is SINGLE target), they have positioning requirements unlike other classes, they can’t just run in circles and spam aoe nor they have massive chills and cripples to keep target in place. W/o shadow shot, IS etc. they would just get kited to oblivion (which already happens when you face ANY engi or smart ele).

If i play guardian or warrior and get kited, at least i can chain CC people and both wars and guards also have moblity moves. If i completely missed everything on war and guard, i just switch weapons and continue to attack or have enough survival to wait out the CDs. Heck, i don’t even need to chase target on guard or war, i can just spam aoe on point. Thief would just die.
The only reliable CC thief has is 1.5 sec stun on 45 sec CD and maybe immob from S/x. Dodge venom, 45 sec wasted. Dodge IS, he won’t be able to do it again unless he uses IR and IS again at which point he has 0 ini left to do anything but AA.

Steal is an issue? Can be dodged, is very predictable if you have some exp with/vs thief and is actually a CD that can be completely wasted unlike some other spells (sup combustive shot).

The sad part,based on the patches for the past year, devs will probably listen to this “suggestions” from OP as well and implement the proposed changes w/o any concern for thief players. Patches did nothing but methodically deleting every viable weapon set/build thieves had in pvp.

i am pretty sure devs are well aware why pvp in this game failed and so unpopular

the question is rather why did it happen and why nothing was improved? i am guessing the answer is money and i don’t think any of our feedback would convince them to invest more into pvp development simply because pve and gem store items for pve are more profitable

I used to run lv 49-50 fractals every day, the drop rate is so low you might get maybe 1 skin in months… if pvp tracks even with low rate would be added, i would never touch fractals again…

Just like posters above me said, fractals are absolute waste of time due to time/gold (for equipment) investment and crappy rewards, pvp track would make fractals obsolete.

There will be pvp only skins in the future, so let fractals have their exclusive skins.

best advice? don’t fight engis, anet makes sure every patch that thieves don’t stand a chance against any half decent engi

coglin.1867:

The turrets are easily distroyed, so I completely disagree with the OP. I suspect the reason players complain about them is because turrets do not take condition damage.

I see no actual reasons posted here to make a change. What about them is too tanky? What’s wrong with a very tanky build and Iit’s components not dieing at your will?

turrets are NOT easily destroyed if you traited for it, smart engi wouldn’t put turrets on top of each other + each turret is hella tanky even if you try to destroy with direct dmg build… i can probably kill 5 ppl in the time i need to kill 1 traited turret

certanly AI builds may be not so great vs well coordinate top 100 team, but there is thing like soloq, hotjoin and or just wanna be team pvp where everyone just pugs so they don’t have to play on skyhammer

pvp should be about player vs player and not player vs pet, turret engi has almost 0 of “player” and way too much of “pet” involved…

all pets should have their dmg at least halved in pvp, you should be able to crit and put condi on pets… for classes like mes and ranger dmg should be shifted to the caster and not come from his pets mainly

still can’t sell anything, says: error attempting to sell

can’t buy or sell anything
seems like tp server is down or something

DarksunG.9537:

CureForLiving.5360:

DarksunG.9537:

Pretty much this.. The LS is a plot framework slathered with the writer’s personal biases set in what’s left of the Guild Wars universe..

What am I saying? Whoever thinks not having a bias is even possible or that having one is in some way bad, is a very silly person. The only problem occurs when one enters a state of self delusion in order to reinforce present biases when confronted with contradictory information.

Oh for crying out loud. For someone who is making passive aggressive jabs at me for not understanding “human thinking in general” you have trouble understanding implication. You then go on to say that the only case where personal bias is bad is one where “self delusion in order to reinforce present biases when confronted with contradictory information”. Which is hilarious because if there is a standard by which one can refute anther’s bias’, in this case contradictory data, that means you subscribe to a form of positivism, or at the very least are using data to determine the validity of ones bias. I understand you don’t subscribe to a form of positivism because I understand what you are getting in general, but it just shows to what extent you’re trying to drum up ways to try to label my criticism “silly”.

My point, which was implicit, was that I don’t like a Guild Wars where the story is: about Sylvari & how important & central they are, tries to do as little with Norn as possible, shows disdain for males, dislikes old lore (especially the gods) & makes pet characters _JUST BECAUSE THE WRITER LIKES/DESIRES/HAS A FETISH FOR THIS STUFF. And I don’t think it’s particularly faithful or respectful to the Guild Wars 1 writing. It’s Biased & it’s obvious. Just because you like the bias doesn’t mean it isn’t there, & doesn’t mean it’s a good way to write.

As far as “self delusion in order to reinforce present biases when confronted with contradictory information” I think that explains perfectly the idea that they still try to convince us how “cool” & “intricate” Scarlet was.

at least it is not your common a hero guy went to slay bad dragon and became a king or something, the end

while i admit there IS certain bias showing in the writing, it is more refreshing than majority of other mmorpg stories that are “if you saw one you saw them all”

besides what’s wrong with sylvari? they are new race, tehy are on rise, ofc there will be a lot stuff going on about them… i am pretty sure we will have enough to do with humans norns and charr once story moves to jormag karkatorrik and co.

Ritt.3069:

Cynz.9437:

Simple example for current patch:
- with current BP a warrior fighting thief has to back off 1 step out of BP to do dmg (or pop zerker) thus rewarding warrior that is aware of BP range and making counterplay…

- noob warrior will just sit in BP and wonder why he doesn’t hit anything

- after patch, even noob warrior can just stand in BP and continue to attack since BP won’t do much anymore except being source for stealth for dp

And here is the problem, next patch rewards players facing thieves for being bad while thieves have to be even better than now to make up for nerfs.

This is exactly the same thing I was discussing with my guildies earlier… Anet implies the Black Powder nerf will increase smart play from the thief’s part, but this change will only dumb down combat and let scrubs who are stupid enough to stand in a puddle of blind to steal deal decent damage. It’s not just warriors, any class can just dive in fearlessly into the BP now. Will this lead to smarter play from the thief? Probably no, since the blind is getting nerfed, thieves will probably just jump into stealth earlier to mitigate damage.

This has been brought up many times, but a simple fix for Black Powder could’ve involved changing the projectile from blind to vuln. That way, Black Powder could’ve maintained its role as melee mitigation, but it would’ve been easier to stop the thief from stealthing from a distance. And with half its effectiveness cut in shreds, anet doesn’t even compensate it with lower initiative cost or anything?

What’s the point of nerfing it anyways? D/P could be made viable with a good team, but it was far from dominant, and even then it was among the hardest specs in all of pvp . S/P was heavily overshadowed by S/D and D/P already. P/P pretty much lost the point of it getting buffed in the first place, since now its only defense is entirely shafted.

Sometimes I do wonder if anyone in the balance team even mains a thief.

They claimed that they do play thieves m(s/d) in pvp a lot althrough not necessary main.

Not that it matters, balance is done based on numbers probably not actual dev experience.

Ovid.7135:

The nerfs to thieves are minimal. Stop whining.

Based on what?

The issue is that every single patch there is nothing but massive thief nerfs and some tiny buffs to traits/spells that nobody uses and will use anyway because they fundamentally bad designed… People are getting tired.

Simple example for current patch:
- with current BP a warrior fighting thief has to back off 1 step out of BP to do dmg (or pop zerker) thus rewarding warrior that is aware of BP range and making counterplay…

- noob warrior will just sit in BP and wonder why he doesn’t hit anything

- after patch, even noob warrior can just stand in BP and continue to attack since BP won’t do much anymore except being source for stealth for dp

And here is the problem, next patch rewards players facing thieves for being bad while thieves have to be even better than now to make up for nerfs.

This been going on every single patch: every thief has to play like top player while every other class can play completely poorly for same result… how is it fair? It is like thief player has to get degree at university to get same payment as some dude w/o any degree doing nothing but drooling on keyboard.

If anet wants to raise skill floor and skill cap so badly, sure! I welcome it… but please do it for EVERY class and not only thieves specifically.

Besides all that, what kittenes me off personally is how anet cares sooo much and does everything that nooby warriors (insert any class here) can beat ANY thief but apprently give 0 kittens (yes, cats) and 0 attempts in fixing bugs that been plaguing thieves for very very long time (teleport bug, ports on stairs, steal bug, sb bug etc.)…

I am sure at least 30% of my deathes in pvp were because shadow step failed due some lil invisible rock on the floor… did anet care a tiny bit to fix that? Apparently not.

fun fact, in wow devs also constantly nerfed rogues and everyone said “deal with it”, “adapt”… untill rogue population dropped to 1% and you couldn’t find a single rogue at lv 90 to open you a lockbox because barely anyone played one… and devs were like “uhhh we can’t figure out why rogue population is so low”…

it seems like anet devs are doing exact same thing

i adapted, i rerolled engi and warrior…

no adapting gonna help vs devs willing to delete every builds for sake of of promoting venoms

Grimreaper.5370:

The amount of people taking this thread seriously is hurting my brain :|

well i am stuck with ascended pet seedling w/o completing the exotic one… i also can’t make exotic one as i don’t have the necessary items (seedling etc. ) and the centaururs guy that suppose to sell it doesn’t offer anything for sale… what now :/

i am stuck with mysterious SeedLING after combining it with mist pot sintead of chaos one… it requires elementally charged food from me, but i don’t have it nor have means to make it….what now :/

All speculations but i think, anet just wants us to play condi builds so badly for the sake of statistics that they won’t stop nerfing other builds untill condi becomes only option and we all either play it or reroll other classes.

The joke is, if i wanted to play condi i would rather stick ot necro or engi…

End line, i think fix to teleport stuck bug, ports not working because there is tiny rock on the way and what not would be way more usefull than wanna be buff to GM acro trait to increase stab by 0.5 sec (that can be still stripped and requires stealth while entire trait line has nothing to do with stealth).

As far as BP changes go, i think it won’t matter so much vs good players since those would move out of BP but will give easier time for noob players and clickers who can’t move 1 cm. I guess they want to promote skilless gameplay xD

Couldn’t resist, ripped off wow but somehow still applies for warriors o.o

I have instead pet seedling, after combining cultivated seed with mists infused clay pot… it keeps showing me to go to mount maelstrom, but when i get there nothing happens :/

i am lost

i have a feeling i made wrong pot but now i don’t have cultivated seed to combine it with another pot

Raiyo.1584:

silentnight warrior.2714:

roamzero.9486:

The SB Choking Gas nerf is pretty ridiculous too, considering Mesmers can summon phantasms and clones without breaking stealth.

Maybe they will change that too when they talk about mesmer.

mesmers are already at the bottom dude , they sure need buffs . and come to think of it , that mesmers summons AI , so stealth shouldnt break , thief is attacking by him/herself so it kinda makes sense

d/p is also not exactly top of the pvp right now, didn’t stop devs to gut BP lol

Phaeton.9582:

Interesting they are buffing zerker warrior and nerfing black powder…. a thieves main defense to zerker warrior…

I’ll try not to be a back seat developer though, sure you guys got it down

They expect thieves to survive massive aoe and condi spam and 12k eviscerates with lowest HP in game, no invul, no prot, no reliable stab, crappy healing, no aegis, no blocks, buggy stun breakers/moblity moves, crappy condi removal, worst ranged weapon sets among all classes, âpparently w/o dodges/stealth and blinds (sup new nerfs), no high access to cc, not even highest dmg in game…

so why exactly should one play thief if they are not allowed to have anything or be good at something?
In reality, probably, devs don’t care about balance or our feedback, but more about numbers. Right now, there are too many thieves that play direct dmg builds, so they will keep nerfing those untill ppl either reroll condi or play other classes. Then again everything is speculation, i personally can’t see anything logical in their decision regarding thieves for past year.

1. thieves don’t really have that many other options besides stealth due to lack of protection, stab, heals etc.
2. entire defensive tree is built around stealth
3. next patch will force majority thieves either quit game, reroll other class or run condi… so enjoy… althrough i have a feeling ppl like you will come back to forums 2 days after patch and qq how OP condi thieves are

MakubeC.3026:

Really guys, I think we need to be more vocal about this.
I feel like we are getting screwed….:(

we been getting screwed for past year at least, if you didn’t notice

aparrently not enough thieves play condi tanks so they will force us to play condi by deleting every other build, not for the sake of balance but for the sake of numbers… that would be my assumption

i mean look at the past patches, all of them are nerfs to direct dmg builds and attempts to make condis more “viable”

Kharr.5746:

Cynz.9437:

wars have no room to complain about BP as long as zerker stance and combustive shot exist

If blind wasn’t such a big problem in PVP, warriors wouldn’t be forced to run zerker stance and LB. Combustive shot is the only burst skill that isn’t completely wasted when blinded. There’s a good reason no warrior can go into competitive PVP without those two. Nerfing blind will allow warriors to switch up their builds a bit more, which will make blind more effective since fewer warriors will have a hard counter (berserker stance) to it.

my point is, BP aoe is tiny and you can walk out of it and still fight… with combustive shot you either stay and die in it or you walk out but then you can’t really fight warrior as melee class

Maliel.8362:

If they are reducing pulses and duration of the blinds they should at least reduce the initiative cost of black powder.

this^^

fun part this change will affect pp and sp thieves more than dp… because you know, pp is soooo OP…..(eyesroll)

Kharr.5746:

What many people seem to forget is that the condition blind used to be removed by swinging at the air. No, seriously, this was the design for over a year.

This was the only reason BP was “balanced”. Anet buffed blind and made it so it required you to connect a hit to a target (which then missed due to blind) before it disappeared.

Also, I’m sure that those claiming you can stand outside the blind circle simply haven’t tried it or are terrible at playing thief. Is the opponent standing outside your BP circle with a melee weapon? Move to the opposite side and force him to walk in if he wants to be in range for melee. What’s that? He won’t follow you in? HS through your field for full damage + stealth -> backstab, BP on top of him, repeat process until he dies while you have full HP. Any skilled thief knows how to force the opponent into the field (or simply put the field on top of the player if he moves out).

Didn’t anyone find it funny that Anet gave warriors a Grandmaster trait that was specifically supposed to deal with blind, yet it could not counter BP and thief blind spam? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Brawler's_Recovery

wars have no room to complain about BP as long as zerker stance and combustive shot exist

Azure The Heartless.3261:

“Warriors have weakness in the form of largely telegraphed attacks.”

Killshot.
Eviscerate.
Shield Bash.
Pin down.
final thrust.
EarthShaker.

Most, if not all of the stupid-high-damage moves can be avoided by simply -watching the body of the warrior you’re fighting and saving your dodges for those moves, while using Stealth/Stonearmor/whatever mitigation you have to endure any auto attacks they may land on you in the meanwhile. Dodges should be used to avoid both the stupid-high-damage moves and the set-up moves that would enable the stupid-high-damage moves.

It isn’t hard. This MMO requires you to recognize when a big hit is coming, and dodge it when it -does- come.

Crucible of eternity frankly -trains- you for this.

Not everything is in the numbers.

one word: asura

lol apprently there were still people sitting in BP instead of moving one step out of circle, anet had to make it easier for clickers who stand still…

definitely promoting skillfull gameplay right here xD

pvp aside, it is actually bigger hit on pve thieves where BP was rather mandatory in some fights… aye Anet, keep nerfing thief group utility in pve, it will certanly go well~

P.S. i loved the buff to stability in GM trait (that requires stealth) in the trait line that has absolutely nothing to do with stealth… oh my sides, someone help me XDDD

so let’s see, pvp wise

d/p nerfed (again, because apprently BS nerf wasn’t enough)
s/d deleted
pp still useless
sb nerfed (again, argue all you want but using choke bomb from stealth was actually helpfull, can’t do it anymore)
dd still useless
s/p nerfed
p/d is still a joke in pvp
2000 range instant 6 sec reveal added to other classes to counter thieves entire defensive tree….

huge nerfs to pve thieves, huge nerfs to pvp thieves… tiny meaningless buffs for most part that won’t have any impact at all

Do they want people to quit thieves completely?

Suggestion: buff one of thief trait that allows thief steal apply debuff on engi/ranger and lock that target from using any heals, gettins any boons, using any blocks or dmging spells for 6 sec to make it fair with engi/rangers

ît gets worse and worse every day, first i couldn’t connect to EB only, then it was cursed shore… the list of maps i can’t access grows bigger every day

i am literary forced to use different proxy (using wtfast atm) just to be able to play :/

commi for Atanae, ty

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Mgorem mains warrior, but he’s not too bad at necromancer, I guess. Also, Cynz, when I banned Supply Crate in FC 1v1s, there was a good amount of controversy. On the one hand, it made some 1v1s for engineer pretty faceroll. On the other hand, it made others almost impossible. The game just isn’t balanced well enough around 1v1s to say adamantly that something should or shouldn’t be allowed. A lot of the FC rules came down to making the matches entertaining more than anything else. That’s where the amulet and trait bans came in, at least.

i say it is pretty undeniable that supply crate is too strong in 1v1 situation no matter how you color it, but it is imo

Enaretos.8079:

Mmh no math on my side but it kicks in after 1-2 hours of farming usully. Wich is why i do 1 hour farming sessions.

yeah but issue in this very case is that i doe coe once a day for obvious reasons, 1 day break should be enough to reset DR, no?