Guild Wars 2

You can’t win any 1 v 1 with staff in wvw regardless of build anyway. Might as well go full zerk in zergs.

Will there be any gear changes needed for the standard 0 10 0 30 30 D/D build after this most recent patch?

What would be the optimal gear stat choice for WvW roaming/group encounters?

Knights? Valk? Zerk? Celestial? etc?
Discuss.

Warlord.9074:

We don’t mind warriors doing massive damage, or doing great area of effect control, but we’re trying to prevent them from easily doing both.

In order to understand this nerf we will use deductive reasoning to see if the arguments premises necessitate the conclusion. If the premise is true than the conclusion must be true.

To do this we will switch the sentence so that it reads backwards becasue if the conclusion is true than the premise must be true.

We are trying to prevent warriors from easily doing great area of effect and control, or easily doing doing massive damage. However we don’t mind them doing both.

---

This statement is very problematic.
First ANET you never proved that it is easy. And failed to state in what context it is easy. Is it easy vs another profession that can dodge, use stability, blink, stealth, stun break. Answer is no. Is it going to be just as easy after you just extensively buffed the other professions the answer is no.

So ANET not only did you fail to prove that it was easy but you also failed to prove it would be easy without the nerf to warrior assuming the buffs to other professions go as planed and no change to warriors occurred in the same process.

Secondly ANET, you said we’re trying to prevent them from easily doing both.
This is a conjecture becasue in the 1st part of your statement by saying that "warriors doing massive damage, or doing great area of effect control you imply that they do not do both. By saying “OR” instead of “BOTH”

The 1st part of the statement is true. But the second part of the statement is false. How do we know becasue the 1st and the 2nd part of the statement do not have the same conclusion. Thus the statement is false.

Conclusion.

This is a politically motivated nerf, motivated by false pretenses and data. And by significantly buffing other professions and nerfing warriors under false pretenses. ANET you have failed to balance the game.

Edited Spelling.

I disagree. While the degree to which certain abilities were nerfed were not to my liking the fact that they needed to be toned down is indisputable to anyone that has any experience playing as a warrior or against warriors.

FyiNight.5784:

Hello guys,

Im having (semi-hard) time fighting theif, nercro,elem,
Im not saying Im a noob, I kill alot of people, but im not ‘owning’ them.

I would say im always 1K:2D kill ratio, I don’t know why

I tried all weapons and skills, i just don’t get why im not winning 1on1 with others

I kinda sound ridiculous but, really, i play to pwn.
______________________________________
here is the problem, In my opinion other class has:

thief : MEGA DAMAGE + INFINITE INVISIBILITY
necromancer: MEGA HEALS, HP
elementalist: MEGA HEALS, MEGA DAMAGE
________________________________________

Build:
20/20/20/0/10

Utilities:
Endure pain, Throw bolas,Frenzy

Here is My Stats:DS, GS,S/S
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/btud.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/o9gz.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/5c32.jpg/

I just want to hear your side of opnion

It would be better if you linked what gear you had via a build calculator link rather than just your stats.

Judging by your stats alone it looks like you are going for dps oriented roaming build but your utility choices are bad for that.

I assume you mean sword/shield by S/S because otherwise dual swords are not good for roaming or dps.

For utility get rid of bolas for bull’s charge. Get rid of frenzy for balanced stance. Get rid of endure pain for shake it off.

Donari.5237:

Hi all!

I’ve just hit 80 on my second Guardian. My first one is geared and all about defense and healing/support. This one is more into mixing it up in the fights. While I hardly want to min/max, especially as he’s mostly for RP purposes, I’d like to pick up a Temple set that suits a GS/Staff fighting Guardian. I would prefer all one Temple set (again, I know that’s not going to min/max him, but he is -not- my resource focus for gear).

Assuming I keep all 6 runes from the set, Balthazar looks good other than being a bit low on Condition Damage. Melandru costs me dearly in Precision and Condition Damage. Whispering — which I always seem to go for on my non-Heavies — looks good all around but not stellar in any one stat and the runes aren’t so hot for this guy.

Any suggestions? I’ll run around Orr getting Temple WPs for a bit so I can be ready to act on advice. Thanks in advance.

Temple armor have stats all over the place. You’ll need to do research on which shrine has which piece in what stat combination and pick and choose the specific pieces you need.

The two mainly useful stats are pvt and cpt. But you will not be able to get full 6 pieces with those stats from the temples.

No, it doesn’t. I have multiple chars that run fractals and it would make farming relics and rings a pain.

Is there a patch details post that I missed? The overview post didn’t mention this.

FiremedicEgon.2597:

Howdy folks, recently decided to return to GW2 after a few months away and chose to reroll a guardian manly because being a 9 foot tall plate mail wearing cat doing his best impression of godzilla makes me giggle in an unmanly fashion. Now i understand from randomly perusing the forums that sword/torch may not be optimal for running dungeons but my question is simple:

For story mode leveling is min/maxing really that important? One of the mistakes i made last time around was not running dungeons because i was under the impression that in order to run them properly you had to run a certain build, and that really killed the enjoyment for me. I understand that if i start running paths i may need to tweek while i’m doing them, but can i get away with SM with a “fun” build?

Thanks for any answers.

You can basically do any exp dungeon with any setup you want.

The min/max thing comes into play if you want to finish those instances efficiently and quickly.

Bloodgruve.6038:

Mr. panel,

Do you have a comprehension problem?

As I stated, 10/30/0/30/0 will prolly have lower dps then the highest dps builds. You also stated it has less ‘survivability’ which I disagree with. You’ve stated that Vitality is worthless without Toughness in previous posts, which is wrong also. Please fully read my posts before you make a fool of yourself.

Blood~

Well that goes against everything you’ve argued so far so maybe the problem is yours.

As I recall it was you who argued for “potential dps” in favor of survivability in the first place and it was I who argued for a more balanced approach with more survivability. (Btw, AH or MF variants has more survivability than your build, period. Your disagreement is irrelevant. The raw extra healing from AH or MF offers far more survivability.)

All I see here is a dishonest attempt to change your stance without admitting you were wrong to start with. It’s mental gymnastics of Olympic levels.

NO, just NO.

If that happens then they’ll just make it so the reward chest is acc daily, and then people won’t be able to run with multiple characters to get rewards.

Then it’ll take forever to gear alts with ascended jewelry/back piece.

Ripluric.5279:

Ok basicly…I really like the idea of bursting people down and beeing in the frontline of the battle, the thing is I enjoy the GS and Hammer kit of the guardian, but I want to play the burst/damage role of the warrior, I feel guardian is to much of a support role for me.
What should I do? xD
(I have 250+ hours of Guardian gameplay).

Roll a hammer warrior…

Good for wvw.

Doable for fractals but you should probably consider gear with more dps for some of the higher lvls.

akamon.2769:

DeathPanel.8362:

That’s your opinion. I’ve never stated that I am better than anyone.

I’ve only argued the advantages of certain builds over others. Just because my tone rubs you the wrong way doesn’t suddenly mean I have some sort of God complex. I let facts speak for themselves.

You’re free to extract yourself from this thread if you don’t like the discussion.

again, you’ve only managed to reply to this. and not any of the other valid points i’ve made.

When you attack me based on my “tone” rather than the merits of my arguments and that in itself is an admission that you don’t have a valid point.

You admit I have facts and experience yet your gripe is based on me “telling people off”.

Sorry but in case you didn’t know facts are not decided by popularity contest. I don’t feel inclined to be overly cordial to people who knowingly propagate bad ideas.

The bottom line is cookie cutter builds exist for the simple fact that they work and work great and have been put to the test repeatedly and come out on top. If this other guy’s build was anywhere near the effectiveness of a MF or AH build or even healway/boonway his build would be the new cookie cutter and I’d be one of the first in line to respec to it. Note that it’s not.

Bloodgruve.6038:

DeathPanel.8362:

Also, regarding his 10/30/0/30/0 build. That actually has LESS dps and even less survivability than 10/30/30/0/0 because you lose up to 450 toughness, and 30% crit damage from not taking valor. (Sure you gain vit and healing but vit is useless when you have low armor)

So the bottom line is, the trade offs are simply not worth it as I’ve shown.

Survivability is relative to the player.

You haven’t shown or proven anything other than your love for AH n MF.

Then you obviously have reading comprehension problems.

I literally outlined exactly what’s wrong with your statements in that post you responded to on the inner quote yet you are pretending I have not shown anything?

Do you deal with all problems by plugging your ears, closing your eyes and pretend that it doesn’t exist?

Do you object to the fact that 10/30/30/0/0 meditation build empirically have more dps than 10/30/0/30/0 (your build without AH or MF) given the same gear and weapon?

Wasn’t you the one who argued against me when I talked about the bad idea of trading off survivability and talked about losing “potential dps”? Yet you are now trying to push slightly higher “effective health”?

Edit: One last thing, your build with 10/30/0/30/0 has effective health of 15993, not 18364 unless your gear includes vit gear. And since we are talking about full zerk builds you are either wrong or presenting false data.

While 10/30/30/0/0 has only 15166 effective health, the difference is insignificant while my build has meditation heals cleanses and yours don’t. In 10/15 patch meditations will also gain fury, further boosting the dps potential.

Why am I trying to advocate for dps here? It’s because your mental gymnastics to avoid the truth has completely turned this argument around on its head?

You’re the one that’s supposed to be arguing for highest potential dps yet you are now arguing for survivability.

That folks, is irony.

EM is good trait. Not OP just good.

zanzoken.7698:

Hey everyone,

I am currently looking for a good high level (48+) build for FotM. I would like to be heavy on the support side but if DPS is the way to go, that would be fine as well.

I thought a defensive bunker would be nice but all guides I find are about zerker guardians

Thanks in advance

I would recommend a zerk guard build but not full glass cannon because that would make any kind of lag or mistake down you and you don’t want to be a liability to the team by being downed all the time.

0 0 30 30 10 AH could work if you wore all zerk items.

You’ll have a decent buffer of toughness and hp from the traits while good dps from gear.

Alternatively, if you want to focus more on dps and less on support.

10 0 30 25 5 meditation build with full zerk would work. (Or 10 30 30 0 0 if you really want to dps)

akamon.2769:

Dear DeathPanel,

first of all, i’m not trying to see whose build is better. not eveythign revolves around yuo and how you think you’re superior than everyone else in here – your tone really reeks of that, regardless of if that’s what you’re thinking or not.

That’s your opinion. I’ve never stated that I am better than anyone.

I’ve only argued the advantages of certain builds over others. Just because my tone rubs you the wrong way doesn’t suddenly mean I have some sort of God complex. I let facts speak for themselves.

You’re free to extract yourself from this thread if you don’t like the discussion.

guanlongwucaii.3162:

firstly, meditations don’t remove party conditions. therefore meditations are useless for party support (and they are pretty useless in PVE anyway). perhaps I should have made it clearer that I’m talking from a dungeon-running viewpoint but since the post I replied to was about dungeons, I would think this to be a given.

secondly, if you take AH and pure of voice, that is not a dps build.

Firstly, support was not a relevant topic for discussion here. Personally I agree support is useful but you’re going to have to talk to the other guy who thinks that it’s not and that any “potential” dps lost is a bad thing.

You’re arguing over these topics with me when I’ve been arguing the very same things at the other guy from your very perspective.

Secondly, POV is not required in AH builds. It’s a matter of what variant you are building.

What I’ve demonstrated is that:
10/30/30/0/0 build without AH is worse than 10/30/30/0/0 with AH if all other things are equal.

Sutcliffe.5491:

@bloodgruve
Sometimes you say 10/30/0/30/0 built and sometimes you say 10/30/30/0/0 built and it can be confusing. I just want to clarify which built do you use? I think it’s 10/30/30/0/0 but just want to be sure.

@deathpanel
What Guanlong is referring to is group condition cleansing which the 10/30/30/0/0 lacks apart from purging flames and if you are taking pure of voice then your built will be like 0/0/30/30/10? This 0/0/30/30/10 built will deal fundamentally lower damage than a 10/30/0/5/25 where both have group condition removal and consecrations cd

Let me reiterate my point.

If you trait away from AH or MF in order to squeeze out dps you are sacrificing too much survivability for little to no gain in the dps department.

The example I pointed out was regarding his 10/30/30/0/0 data without AH or MF and I had pointed out you can also take AH OR MF with that setup, maintain 100% of the dps gains, AND have more survivability.

In fact with 10/30/30/0/0 MF you can also gain cleanses via meditations, making the gains ever better. So empirically 10/30/30/0/0 with AH or MF is simply better than the same without.

Also, regarding his 10/30/0/30/0 build. That actually has LESS dps and even less survivability than 10/30/30/0/0 because you lose up to 450 toughness, and 30% crit damage from not taking valor. (Sure you gain vit and healing but vit is useless when you have low armor)

So the bottom line is, the trade offs are simply not worth it as I’ve shown.

Personally, I have 2 80 guards one with AH and one with MF.

0/0/30/30/10 ah
10/0/30/25/5 med

I don’t think consecrations are that useful currently outside of specific situations but maybe the buffs to consecrations in new patch will make them more viable as main slot utilities.

colesy.8490:

Yup, ignored everything I wrote in my post.

The main problem here is you take my quotes out of context and dishonestly twist my words. If I actually ignored what you wrote I wouldn’t have pointed it out.

Fortus.6175:

My biggest issue currently, in WvW everything and anything (even an elementalist..) will outrun me 8/10 times before I get a chance to do much more. sPvP is less of an issue since if i make them run I win the point, but it is not fun watch the kills walk away.

help please?

Superior runes of the traveler.

Bloodgruve.6038:

Nah, I’m done here. Anyone that views this thread can come to their own conclusion. If you don’t want to be self informed then I’m not gonna give you anymore. Anyone who has tried it knows what it can do so I don’t feel the need to justify myself. If you want to sit there and assume things then be my guest. It shows what kind of a player you are.

I do want to be informed, that’s why I’m asking you to show what you’ve asserted because from my experience with my 2 80 guards I’ve never seen PS proc for 5.3k without any might as you’ve claimed.

This is a simple task for you to demonstrate and takes like 2 minutes if you were right.

You’re just running away instead of having to admit your statements were fabricated, overinflated, and wrong.

Bloodgruve.6038:

DeathPanel.8362:

Bloodgruve.6038:

/sigh

5300 dmg on a 2600 armor target. If I can proc that quickly even every 20 seconds that’s an increase of 265 DPS. If you watch the target you’ll know when to trigger it to damage as the target swings. In this specific scenario Mace only needs an increase of just over 100 DPS to pull ahead of GSword, PS gives it that. I honestly don’t care for spread sheet calculations, I haven’t found one that I feel is accurate enough to use. If people say GSword is the best then why the hell can I kill stuff as fast or faster with other weapons?

In reality its a function of player skill and attention in combat. Most weapons are so dam close you can run whatever weapon loadout you want for DPS and be competitive with the right builds.

I call shenanigans.

You are free to post a screenshot of when you did 5.3k damage with PS. (If you somehow had 25 might stacks and it crit maybe, but not under any normal circumstances)

Go to Orr, or the Mists, or any lvl 80 zone, run up to a mob with protectors strike qued up n let them hit you.

5.3k crit with no Might in the mists on Chieftain. I run high crit so it very rarely doesn’t crit. I’ve seen 8K+ PS aoe crits, its a dps ability if used as one.

How can you argue this stuff if you don’t know what it does?

How about you take a screenshot for everyone to see since you are the one making this assertion?

Go to Orr, and do exactly what you described. Afterall if it was so easy it would be a trivial task for you right?

colesy.8490:

For the record, guys. DeathPanel wrote this:

First. As a commander you won’t be at front line.

Nice try taking my quote out of context.

I also defined exactly what I meant which is you lead and attack with the zerg but don’t be the very first person up front due to danger of being focused.

Of course being totally devoid of honesty you wouldn’t include that part of the quote.

And it’s somewhat interesting that you would come here pretending to know about commandering when you don’t even command and it’s doubtful you even play a guard at all since your posting is mostly in the Mesmer forums and mostly flamebaits.

I recommend people look at colesy’s post history and see him for what he really is.

laharl.8435:

Arthos Ravron.3796:

Direksone.3867:

A tough (P/V/T?) build that does NOT use shouts. I’m a bit of a hipster and don’t like running what everyone else is (yes it’s the best, but to me it’s REALLY boring as well).

Go!

Best? Have you seen how powerful a well-played meditation build is? The damage is ungodly

ungodly damage on PVT build…sorry nope.

You can gain respectable damage with pvt gear if you specifically build around it, but never ungodly obviously.

Take a look at my build above, and you’ll see an example.

akamon.2769:

@Death – okay, i’ve been trying to be polite/civil to you. but all you’ve been doing is keep implying that i’m not paying attention while you’re the one being fixated on “cleansing” being brought up. and nit pick what you want to nit pick on within my and others’ posts. is it not part of gameplay? is a forum discussion not allowed to branch off into other aspects of the game?

Death, i know the point you are making. and this whole time, all i’ve been trying to convey was that by using a build such as, 10/30/0/30/0, the DPS gain is more than marginal as you make it out to be, and the loss of survivability is not as big as you make it out to be (which happened to be tied to cleansing, thus why it was brought up, can you at least see where i’m coming from with this?).

bottom line is – there is no one superior build over any given other build. people can play whatever they want to. if you believe AH is superior to all, that’s fine. again, i love AH. though, i just don’t stand for people telling others off for using other builds.

Wrong. I never stated AH is superior to all. I simply showed that AH or MF variants are overall better than your personal build.

It’s also ironic that you dismiss AH as unneeded survivability that wastes potential dps but try to justify 30 points in Honor just for condition cleanse. (which is also survivability) That’s a hilarious double standard.

The fact is if condition cleanse was a real concern you can easily go 10/30/30/0/0 meditation build(monk’s focus), have condition cleanse via meditations, more crit dmg %(dps), far more toughness, and far more survivability(healing from meditations).

In fact a 10/30/30/0/0 MF build would be better than your build in every way that matters. More dps(crit damage %), far more toughness(valor traits), condition cleanse(meditations), healing(meditations) and as of 10/15 patch you’ll also get fury via meditations which would boost dps further.

Your fundamental problem is that your aversion to AH or MF and your lack of imagination has blinded you from builds that are in fact empirically better.

guanlongwucaii.3162:

Adelz.8429:

I run AH in all the dungeons, It doesn’t effect your DPS in any negative way.

you do get 30% crit damage from taking 30 in valor, but there are some things that your build is missing.

1 – lack of condition cleansing. this isn’t a problem if you’re in a static group as a 2nd guardian with the first one bringing condition cleanses, but otherwise you’re missing out on a lot of utility

2 – lack of consecration traiting. this is pretty unacceptable. consecrations are amazing in almost every dungeon. you can still use your wall of reflection but it’s gonna be less effective and this will hurt your team.

also, radiant fire is terrible compared to powerful blades; don’t take it. even if you plan on taking the trait, it’s going to be pointless since you lack the 10 in zeal for fiery wrath.

tl;dr – while taking AH may give a seemingly significant statistical boost, the massive loss in utility and the loss of 30 trait points cripples your effectiveness.

Taking valor doesn’t exclude you from taking condition cleansing abilities and traits.

A full meditation build that builds valor also has cleanse/convert effects for example.

Taking AH also doesn’t exclude one from taking pure of voice.

I find it ironic that the whole argument against taking AH is dps yet all of a sudden survivability matters when it somehow suits your argument.

Bloodgruve.6038:

/sigh

5300 dmg on a 2600 armor target. If I can proc that quickly even every 20 seconds that’s an increase of 265 DPS. If you watch the target you’ll know when to trigger it to damage as the target swings. In this specific scenario Mace only needs an increase of just over 100 DPS to pull ahead of GSword, PS gives it that. I honestly don’t care for spread sheet calculations, I haven’t found one that I feel is accurate enough to use. If people say GSword is the best then why the hell can I kill stuff as fast or faster with other weapons?

In reality its a function of player skill and attention in combat. Most weapons are so dam close you can run whatever weapon loadout you want for DPS and be competitive with the right builds.

I call shenanigans.

You are free to post a screenshot of when you did 5.3k damage with PS. (If you somehow had 25 might stacks and it crit maybe, but not under any normal circumstances)

Sutcliffe.5491:

DeathPanel.8362:

Sutcliffe.5491:

So u dun take into consideration whirling wraith and symbol of wraith in your dps calculations? If that’s the case, hammer has the best autoattack in a untraited built

As for which weapon has a higher dps, it has to be looked in a context.

If u look at it from a vacuum, gs has the higher dps compared to mace and that is expected because gs is a 2 handed weapon.

If u compare the damage between a mace using 10/30/30/0/0 built and a gs using 0/0/10/30/30 built. Then the mace is going to out damage the gs by quite alot.

Anyway if u still dun get it, then too bad.

Sorry but you just don’t get it.

A weapon’s dps is the sum of all its skills including their cooldowns.

Perhaps u can show me how u calculate the dps of a gs with a numerical example?

You can find any number of threads with full comparisons of guardian weapon damage in this forum and on guru.

I’m not going to waste time rehashing common knowledge.

Fortus.6175:

My biggest issue currently, in WvW everything and anything (even an elementalist..) will outrun me 8/10 times before I get a chance to do much more. sPvP is less of an issue since if i make them run I win the point, but it is not fun watch the kills walk away.

help please?

runes of the traveler.

Cuddlepie.8109:

To the extent that it matters, I have 52 "Tier 1’ wins, was one of Titan Alliance’s WvW commanders and still command T1 today (generally in EB, often running militia around a smallish guild core).

My Guard’s priorities are, in priority order, survival (incl cc breaks), cc and group utility. DPS for the type of commanding I do is not a consideration. I’m the focus of our group’s movement, DPS and cc calls, healing and rebuffing calls, as well as being the focus of most threat group’s DPS and cc. I can’t effectively do any of this if downed/defeated. Unless I’m running untagged with guildies or running a commander bait ruse, then you have to be at point to be effective. On this I fundamentally disagree with Obtena and Death.

I don’t see how you disagree with me on being at point. Since when have I ever even implied that commanders shouldn’t be at point?

You can read my post in this thread earlier about what I define to be leading from the front.

From what I’m seeing everything you’ve stated is pretty much in sync with my outlook with exception of gear choice which is only due to my personal preference. The priorities you listed are things I100% agree with you on.

Sutcliffe.5491:

So u dun take into consideration whirling wraith and symbol of wraith in your dps calculations? If that’s the case, hammer has the best autoattack in a untraited built

As for which weapon has a higher dps, it has to be looked in a context.

If u look at it from a vacuum, gs has the higher dps compared to mace and that is expected because gs is a 2 handed weapon.

If u compare the damage between a mace using 10/30/30/0/0 built and a gs using 0/0/10/30/30 built. Then the mace is going to out damage the gs by quite alot.

Anyway if u still dun get it, then too bad.

Sorry but you just don’t get it.

A weapon’s dps is the sum of all its skills including their cooldowns.

Sutcliffe.5491:

Lol. Your logic is faulty. What matters most is that how fast the damage can be unleashed on the monster and not the cooldown because during cooldown of weapon skills, u can still use other attacks.

That’s the point. A majority of the overall damage done in any given time segment is NOT going to be PS with mace.

If over a given duration only a tiny % of the overall damage is done by PS then it would be an insignificant factor in determining the overall dps worthiness of a weapon.

It would certainly not make any meaningful difference in determining which one has higher dps between GS and mace that the other guy tried to pass it off as.

Sorry but you are the one with the faulty logic here.

Sutcliffe.5491:

Lol, if u use wiki numbers to calculate dps, we will be all doing less than 1k dps.
Eg sword auto attack chain:269+269+504=1042 per 2.5s
Therefore sword dps = 416.8

And nobody wants to channel protector strike for 3.75s , what they want is for it to go off asap because it has a coefficient of 1.4 which is equal to the last strike on mace auto attack.

Seriously, I think Bloodgruve arguments are more sensible than yours

It’s irrelevant what you think. The facts are the facts.

To figure out actual dps of skills you must factor in the cooldowns.

Even if you assume there’s no channeling of PS at all and it triggers each and every time off cooldown the dps is still a measely 31. The fact is the skill is simply not a good source of dps period and it’s ludicrous to cite it as part of an argument that mace is somehow better dps than GS.

Relentliss.2170:

A commander in the thick knows hoe much damage his forces are taking and can call for things. Someone standing in the back is just guessing. The pugs will follow someone better if he is in the thick of it.

Command however you want. I enjoy the bags.

You are either not understanding what I’ve been saying or purposefully misrepresenting what I said.

Since when did “moving and attacking with zerg” translate into “standing in the back”?

Relentliss.2170:

DeathPanel.8362:

colesy.8490:

Just to go over things again.

I’m on a tier 1 server, in a strong WvW guild and was able to wipe another strong WvW guild. Our raid commander jumps right in the thick of combat and survives. Our PUG commanders in eternal drop right in the thick of combat and survive (they don’t even try hiding it, Wemil uses sword 2 on his warrior to leap in, Rida in our raids uses greatsword 3 on his guard to leap in). This is my experience.

You’re saying that you don’t command at the front because you’ll just die, and I’ve explained that even in the blobbiest tier that you can do it and survive perfectly fine.

If you think you’ll die being at the front, then it’s because you’re not using enough defensive gear and you aren’t playing properly, because I rarely ever see commanders die and I’ve only ever seen commanders leading from the front, and yes there are plenty of guardian commanders.

You know, it wouldn’t bother me how obnoxious you were being if you were actually right about … well, anything. But you’re not, so save the arrogance for when you actually have the vaguest idea of what you’re talking about and don’t come out with embarrassing things like telling somebody who runs Fractal 79 to learn to play.

Sorry but nothing you’ve stated conforms with the facts. Myself and others on this thread already pointed out exactly why you are wrong. If you are in fact in a strong tier 1 wvw guild then all you’ve done so far is embarrass them.

Colsey is right. Most T1 commanders lead from the front. It provides a focal point for your whole team to focus around. And they are the last one standing. For example, I’ve never seen the SAHP commander, who I don’t know, die. He is the first one in and last one out each time. When we play other servers they just melt in all their gimicky builds. Beserker FTL.

I have played with a great commander on a Necro but he was near the front and surrounder by about 10 guardians and warriors at all times.

There’s a fundamental confusion here. Read my post about the distinctions of what leading from the front means.

Stacking together around the commander and stacking buffs and then charging in is a real strategy. What I was saying is you don’t have to be the first person in that charge.

If that commander magically survives being first person in a charge and last out then good for him. Obviously that is contrary to the experiences of most people here.

Bloodgruve.6038:

The testing wasn’t able to get Protectors Strike to hit because the Golem does not hit back. PS will add up to 300 DPS to the 2926DPS which would effectively pull Mace/Torch easily on par or ahead of GSword in this scenario.

Not sure why you didn’t list any builds through this whole thread. You could have saved a lot of disagreement if in fact you had them in mind when posting.

Lastly, 10/30/30/0/0 is built for 1h weapons and aside from Mace you’ll get very little out of AH compared to the standard builds. Again, I wouldn’t consider it an AH build at all.

PS is irrelevant. Not only is it conditional based on being hit, while you are in that animation you are not doing anything else.

Even assuming best case scenario and you hit with that each and every time it is up, that’s 470 base damage every 18.75 seconds. which is a pathetic 25 dps.

colesy.8490:

Just to go over things again.

I’m on a tier 1 server, in a strong WvW guild and was able to wipe another strong WvW guild. Our raid commander jumps right in the thick of combat and survives. Our PUG commanders in eternal drop right in the thick of combat and survive (they don’t even try hiding it, Wemil uses sword 2 on his warrior to leap in, Rida in our raids uses greatsword 3 on his guard to leap in). This is my experience.

You’re saying that you don’t command at the front because you’ll just die, and I’ve explained that even in the blobbiest tier that you can do it and survive perfectly fine.

If you think you’ll die being at the front, then it’s because you’re not using enough defensive gear and you aren’t playing properly, because I rarely ever see commanders die and I’ve only ever seen commanders leading from the front, and yes there are plenty of guardian commanders.

You know, it wouldn’t bother me how obnoxious you were being if you were actually right about … well, anything. But you’re not, so save the arrogance for when you actually have the vaguest idea of what you’re talking about and don’t come out with embarrassing things like telling somebody who runs Fractal 79 to learn to play.

Sorry but nothing you’ve stated conforms with the facts. Myself and others on this thread already pointed out exactly why you are wrong. If you are in fact in a strong tier 1 wvw guild then all you’ve done so far is embarrass them.

clint.5681:

DeathPanel.8362:

I spent about 47 gold yesterday getting the full 7 and it works very well.

There’s a small drop in dps from the ruby orbs I used to have but that’s offset by the boon duration increase and the mobility.

lol what i thought travler runes were only around 1-2g last time i check ( which was like a week or more ago)

It went up to a little over 6 gold. This is mostly probably due to the fact that the 2nd bonus is +15% boon duration and is the new staple in x2x2×2 boon builds plus the fact that it helps mobility for certain builds like meditation.

colesy.8490:

Did you just say that someone in T1 doesn’t have experience in ZvZ? It’s basically the only thing that happens whether you’re on borderlands or eternal. A few days ago we wiped Second Law too which is one of the top WvW guilds, and I had no problem evading through their melee train when we fought them in Garrison.

So what server are you on?

Lol what a lame argument.

That’s like saying if I lived in the same state as Bill Gates I’m obviously just as smart and rich.

Being within virtual geographical proximity of someone who knows what they are doing does not confer upon you the ability to know what you are doing genius.

I made no statement regarding T1 servers, I only made statements regarding YOU specifically based on what YOU said.

Moral of the story, don’t say ridiculous things and you won’t be embarrassed.

colesy.8490:

Dodge makes you evade all attacks during its frames, so yes dodging will save you. If your side is pushing with you then it means they can’t sit there and focus you down either since they’re watching their own life totals, plus zerg combat is fluid anyway.

If you had any common sense you’d have static placed in front so that you’d catch their zerg inside and then you’d roll over them with your melee train.

Even the guild I’m in, Circle of Nine our commander is the first to jump in and yet he’s almost always the last to drop if we wipe. Normally what happens is he’ll jump in and then we just roll over pugs with melee train, and if not it’s just a case of regrouping, rebuffing might and then finishing off the remainder, and that doesn’t take a guild group, even PUGs can buff in regroups.

And ordered retreat … well you’re not going to get one. If you see you’re outnumbered you just don’t engage. If you try to disengage and you’re outnumbered, most likely you’ll just get wiped. If you drop, then just tell everyone over teamspeak to regroup at the waypoint, tower or whatever.

What server are you even on?

Sorry but discussing this topic with you is like a scientist discussing physics with a chimp. You obviously have no experience in zerg vs zerg fights or you wouldn’t be making such ridiculous comments.

I’ll direct you to Obtena’s post above since it explains things in a simple and concise way which hopefully you’ll understand.

colesy.8490:

What, don’t you have a dodge key?

I have no problem even dodging through guild groups, literally the only thing that will get you killed is lack of stability/stun breaker if you get caught in static.

On SFR our commanders are always at the front and are always the first to jump in and they only really die when the zerg wipes.

Lol you really are new aren’t you?

You seriously think dodge is going to save you when you’re being focused by 10+ people?

The main point of the commander is to consolidate players into zergs and guide them to places, you can’t do that when you’re dead. That’s why everyone in this post have their own ideas of focusing on survivability, because the main job of the commander is to SURVIVE to guide the zerg.

Jumping in first is stupid because in the case of a losing battle you want an ordered retreat and not a complete wipe. And you can’t have an ordered retreat if your commander’s dead.

Maybe in your little world it’s either win a zerg fight or be completely wiped out because you don’t know any better.

Seriously, please learn the game before making these embarrassing comments.

colesy.8490:

DeathPanel.8362:

colesy.8490:

You don’t command at the front line? Well that explains a lot.

The fact that the only thing you know how to do is troll every post you visit explains a lot.

I don’t understand why you don’t command at the front. People follow that dorito to the end of the world so if you command up front you can perform manoeuvres like veil, flanking right and then bombing the other zerg’s backline. If you chill out in the back … you can’t do that, or you can’t do it efficiently unless leading a guild group (and raid commanders fight at the front anyway).

If you define “commanding from the front” as in running with the zerg and attacking together with it then I do.

If you define “commanding from the front” as in taking point in a spearhead charge and getting focused down in the first 2 seconds by 20 different people then I don’t.

Direksone.3867:

A tough (P/V/T?) build that does NOT use shouts. I’m a bit of a hipster and don’t like running what everyone else is (yes it’s the best, but to me it’s REALLY boring as well).

Go!

This is about the best dps/survivability/mobility you can get with all pvt gear:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQRAre8dlUgSDHHyNEf4Eh1jBKQ/VVIeXPgYCbIA-j0BBofDimgIQEIhO7pIaslhFRjVZDT9iIqGA-w

Note. Actual crit chance is 35% with 1hs. With oct 15 patch all meditations gain fury so you’ll be looking at 55% crit chance.

Use this build roaming or with zerg in wvw.

Arthos Ravron.3796:

I’m a commander who’s always at the front lines (chasers do get ahead of me)
And I use Knight’s and PvT
Why? Because Empowering Might.
You don’t need to be a complete tank if you know your tactics.

Oh, and Wall of Reflection, and Staff.
Essential.

That’s pretty much identical to my setup except I run all knights. In the old days I used to be mixed of pvt and knights.

colesy.8490:

You don’t command at the front line? Well that explains a lot.

The fact that the only thing you know how to do is troll every post you visit explains a lot.

Bloodgruve.6038:

DeathPanel.8362:

Sorry but if you base your build around mace damage and burning and consider that high dps then you don’t know what you are doing.

Zerk gear amplifies raw damage and a GS will easily out dps a mace/torch.
Burning damage is trivial relatively and don’t even register by comparison in that scenario.

You also keep bringing up this mace build, please re-read the above quoted post. I made no argument that Mace/Torch had the highest damage output, in fact I stated other builds were higher. They were only comparative examples.

One of your arguments was that mace/torch had higher dps than GS. That’s simply false. Your own numbers show that.

Your other argument was based on the assumption that AH can only be x x 30 30 x. And while that is the most commonly used template it’s not the ONLY WAY.

Using your own build and your own numbers, which is 10/30/30/0/0 without AH, one can easily trait AH and retain 100% of the dps of that build yet gain significant survivability.

So in other words, AH with the 10/30/30/0/0 setup is simply empirically better than a 10/30/30/0/0 setup WITHOUT AH.

That goes to what I’ve been saying all along. With gear being equal, trying to take out AH or MF out of a build in order to squeeze out some extra dps via traits is sacrificing too much viability for little to no gain in dps.

I spent about 47 gold yesterday getting the full 7 and it works very well.

There’s a small drop in dps from the ruby orbs I used to have but that’s offset by the boon duration increase and the mobility.

AH is never good for roaming because it depends on being near people and roaming is usually done solo or in very small groups.

urieldhynne.2743:

You need to have 20k+ health and 3200+ armor. If you can build some healing power would be great. Forget about anything else (you need to stay alive, only that). Focus on that.

AH is GREAT for frontline. Even without healing power, AH scale bad with HP but scale great with regen, dodge rolls and healing skills, if you can build healing power good, if not dont worry too much, with AH build you have at least 300.

Some players talk about “low/mid health pool” and “healing power” and stacking only armor, there is a post about it explaining this, and is true but situational, 16k health in frontline is a suicide dont matter how much armor you have.

PVT. you need PVT or sentinel equipment. I am not commander but i have almost 20k hp, 3200 armor and 900 healing power with AH build and i am one of the last alive with the commander. And every good guardian commander i know is almost full PVT.

I agree with some points here but not all.

First. As a commander you won’t be at front line.

Second. 16k HP with 3.5k armor is not too different than 20k HP with 3.2k armor in terms of survivability if at all.

The extra health is offset by the lower armor. The only benefit would be to survive condition bursts better assuming you don’t have any cleanse off cd. And as you’ve mentioned already larger hp pool doesn’t scale well with AH.

I’ve tried pvt gear on my guard in wvw before and honestly I don’t see any real difference except in crit chance and how well AH scales. That is the reason why I decided to go with knights.

PVT gear works far better on a warrior commander IMO.