Guild Wars 2

fixit.7189:

Maybe to extreme but w/e…just some thoughts.

Each legend has it’s own tablet. On a legend swap if a tablet is out, it auto switches to the new legend tablet. Then make each one function similiar to ventari.

ie. Demon tablet that focuses on conditions/Dwarven tablet that focuses on defense/Ventari tablet that focuses on healing.

Then move/re-design demon/dwarven skills to these tablets

Basically movable condi/defense/heal batteries…

Downside: doing this could mean way to much micro management and I know many might not like that.

Weapon swap; not sure this will happen, maybe…it would be nice. My other thought is to have it similar to elementalists and elements.

ie. Ventari has unique weapon skills based on healing using a staff/demon has unique skills based on condi using a staff/dwarven has unique weapon skills based on defense using a staff.

Then do this with the other weapon sets….

Obviously these suggestions would require a hefty rewrite (not going to happen) and probably over powered to boot but one can hope for more variety/choice for the rev class in the future. Rev feels unfinished and incomplete for sure, the lack of underwater skills is a good indicator of that. lol.

Basically the easiest thing for them to implement is a weapon swap. Unless they implement attunement-like affects from ele which is a lot harder. At the way it is right now the class is fundamentally bad because you’re stuck with the one weapon and no options.

Eolirin.1830:

DeathPanel.8362:

The biggest thing Staff needs is for the #1 autoattack to cleave 5 targets instead of 3 and increase the range to the same as Guardian or Warrior GS autoattack.

Secondary Tablet needs to be always centered on the player and automatically follow the player like an aura. It’s just unfun tedium to have to continuously spam that move tablet button.

It feels like the mechanics were done for the sake of theme over actual fun gameplay or quality of life. That’s the exact wrong approach.

Spamming the tablet movement is super important to taking advantage of trait synergies, never mind the positioning of the thing. Moving it will proc Blinding Truths, Invigorating Flow, Natural Abundance, and also Charged Mists if you’re below 50%, which you should be if you’re using it to heal a lot, because you should generally be activating Natural Harmony when you’re moving it.

The point is spamming it is tedious and is a quality of life issue. There’s no reason for it not to be revamped into an aura and have traits and it’s abilities tweaked to work better with it in a different way.

LouWolfskin.3492:

And why am i not surprised that the proposed changes stop at the Multi-Knockback attack.

I want that attack removed. It’s a major annoyance already dealing with GS mesmers and Longbow rangers in dungeons knocking stuff out of stacks and damage fields because they just spam their abilities without thinking.

The only times this type of knockback is actually useful is in extremely fringe cases in pve and WvW zerg battles. And from the way the staff works currently it is not really viable in WvW for Revs anyway.

quagganzilla.6450:

Dynamic Fun

IMO you’re best off playing Rev understanding a) this is Beta and b) it’s not finished.
Why do so many people have a cry about things in beta, it’s so silly.

The whole point of the Beta is so that issues can be brought up to the attention of the devs to fix. If everyone just didn’t complain because they thought the way you do no issues would be discovered and the game was have a disastrous release.

The biggest thing Staff needs is for the #1 autoattack to cleave 5 targets instead of 3 and increase the range to the same as Guardian or Warrior GS autoattack.

Secondary Tablet needs to be always centered on the player and automatically follow the player like an aura. It’s just unfun tedium to have to continuously spam that move tablet button.

It feels like the mechanics were done for the sake of theme over actual fun gameplay or quality of life. That’s the exact wrong approach.

Malvir.1975:

So by releasing something that’s effectively a steaming pile you haven’t really made the game worse and you can get feedback and there’s no rush in buffing it up to competitive. Alternatively, releasing something too powerful quickly causes a lot of issues and there’s great pressure to fix it as soon as possible.

That logic doesn’t follow exactly since if you releasing things that are a “steaming pile” in betas you will get a lot of bad PR and people will probably not be as likely to buy your game. Alternatively you would get more anticipation and hype for something more powerful that you can always nerf later after the players have bought your game.

For example for players that haven’t pre-ordered this game yet that are reading the forums they will get the idea that the new class is really bad or have severe design flaws from all the negative feedback and might as a result not buy the game or wait until much later.

So in fact the consequences of what you are saying is almost exactly opposite. Since ANET is going to be now under extra pressure to make fixes or improvements due to the flood of negative forum reviews of the new class so that it doesn’t hurt their profits on release.

Burn as the sole damage source may seem weak but really it isn’t if you run with a large zerg. In zerg fights so many different conditions are applied that your burn damage will sneak through easily and deal massive damage to people if you spec for aoe burn and burn on block.

Last Warrior Lord.7248:

Slow

and

Weak

Don’t need another support class, elementalist and guards got the covered.
Plus the Revenant support/healing is low and radius to small in centaur stance. No blocks, no regeneration and better/improve stability . Not impress with trait lines none works to better the current weapons or the stance (some trait lines help stances only on swap but not noticeable). Energy management need to be better and the energy on weapons is holding the skills back even after the “recharge” which makes it pointless. Healing recharge is to long for what it offers which sometimes don’t help vs condition spam and stun, daze, and etc. Hammer skill 1 way to slow. Staff skill five needs to be lock on or ground target based skill; not forward motion which is easily avoidable, you don’t even have to dodge just your foe walking to the left or right will end up you missing. Skill 5 on axe seems buggy, not pulling target. Skill 2 on Mace seems slower to cast than skill 2 on guard Mace.

Even with all that it’s still interesting but not impressive. Just flashing with animations. Kind of disappointing and I hope this is not the complete offer of the class. I’m assuming Anet is holding the class back cause its beta. I don’t know we see.

Slow and weak

is 3 words.

I get that they are attempting to be consistent in having one class of each gear type with only 1 weapon set.

However Rev is not like Engs and Eles. Engs and Eles are able to have 1 weapon set and still be viable because Engs have kits which are like different weapon sets and Eles have attunements which essentially makes them have 4 weapon sets. In essence the kits and attunements make up for the limitations of the single weapons Engs and Eles get to use.

Revs in the meantime are stuck with a single weapon set which is very specialized with no way to make up for limitations of each since the only thing they can swap is their utility skills and they are specialized towards certain builds as well:

Mace/Axe for Condition build.
Staff for support.
Hammer for long range single target and some CC.

Dwarf for direct damage/tanking
Centaur for support
Demon for condition

The problem here is that the utility skills you swap when changing legends are also specialized so that when you build a character you are always stuck with half of your utility skills being somewhat useless. For example unless you build towards conditions Demon stance is not going to help that much and same is true for Dwarf and Ventari and direct damage and support respectively.

Changing the utility set also doesn’t do anything to make up for the limitations of your main weapon like the kits do for the Engs and Attunement does for Eles.

Those factors combined makes the Revenant very substandard and clunky to play as. I certain didn’t have fun playing the class despite all the anticipation.

I literally got bored after maybe a hour of playing the revenant and I’m the last person to get bored playing GW2 since I spent thousands of hours playing this game and have 24 level 80 characters all in exotic and ascended gear.

Revenant will need a huge revamp for this expansion to be well received probably. Currently I rate the class as a 3/10.

Personally I believe the following will improve the situation:

1) Add a second weapon set to the class and make weapons swappable.
OR
Make it so that attack skills are different depending on stance like Ele Attunement.

2) Make utilities totally configurable rather than tied entirely to the stance, except make it so that under different stances the utility skills have totally different effects.
3) Make staff auto hit up to 5 targets instead of 3 and increase the cleave range to equal that of a greatsword attack from guardian or warrior.
4) Make Ventari’s tablet always centered around the player and need no input to move it.

Aguasatori.7236:

The issue right now with Revenant is that its weapons are too closely reliant on the corresponding trait line. Staff is a good example of this. Plus, staff’s power scaling is abysmal.

At least the 5 skill is amusing.

Skill 5 is amusing until someone uses it and knocks a bunch of mobs and bosses out of the damage fields you’ve setup.

Needs Buffs

15char

Azure.8670:

Imagine this. I log into Facebook and see a msge from my guild mate. It reads…

Revanent is awful!

For a solid 5 seconds I was upset and angry. Then I realized …… Necro is no longer the absolute worst class! There is a very very very good chance that there’s a class that may end up with worse dps than the necro. For years we’ve been the laughing stock of gw2. Every skill and trait we have is borderline lauggable. No ranged power weapon. An axe that can’t cleave. We were banned from dungeons for years.

Enter Revanent.

Now I know it’s beta and there may be time to redeem this species. Necro will never get buffed, it’s been 3 years I’m over it, but I’m happy someone else will get bullied now.

I don’t know what rock you were sleeping under for the past 3 years but last I checked necros were pretty good. But yes as it stands Revenant is fairly awful unless they buff the class.

shion.2084:

So I was thinking about using the Revenant in the weekend beta and a horrible thought occurred to me… What if after all these years of playing, I finally get a precursor drop?

As I know fate has a rather sick sense of humor I am now highly considering not giving it the chance to drop 4 precur’s on me over the weekend. I presume in the case that I received one I’d loose it when the beta was over

Anyone else concerned that this might be time for irony to rear its ugly head?

Doesn’t really matter. You not getting a precursor drop previously has no bearing on your chances of getting a precursor drop in the beta or the other way around. If you get it you get it otherwise you won’t. Worrying about getting precursor drop in beta when it has no affect on whether or not you actually get one is not useful.

The lack of cleaving of this staff kills it. Only 3 targets. It’s almost like using a thief’s dagger. The aoe knockback ability of #5 is also problematic in dungeon runs when people use it. Aoe knockback really is mostly useful in wvw and the staff with its poor range and cleaving ability makes it a poor choice in wvw as well. All in all it’s a very poor melee weapon. Hopefully the other yet to be revealed weapon choices give more options for melee cleaving or they alter it because as of right now there are no good dps melee options for revenant.

CandyHearts.6025:

Before a lot of you chant “ZERKER” (Typical answer to me via map chat) . . . I don’t enjoy being glass. I’m looking to be a solid average between toughness, crit, and power without being so weak that I manage nothing. I’m also hoping I can get away from bottom tier HP but… that’s probably not going to change. xD

My first notion was Zerker accessories and weapon + Knight’s armor. But I’m rather new to Guild Wars 2 so my thoughts could be completely far fetched from what’s a good idea.

At the moment I’m running Medi-guard with GS / Scepter – Focus. Really enjoying it though I do like me some sword / torch too.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! <3

Edit:

I found two builds on “Into the Mist” I found interesting if anyone would wish to give their input on them. Thanks!

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-B;4NFF30I3wF-90;9;4OQn;0046136147;4TwVFE;1jxqQjxqQp-FW3-gD40;1lVr0vXz254Ba0q-JF2g;9;9;9;9;9;9;0V6s5G

http://intothemists.com/guides/5531-meditation_guardian

If you are roaming then medi build with mostly zerker splashed with knights or soldiers if you feel too squishy. GS + Sword/Focus.

If you are zerging then standard AH build (Shouts with Hammer or GS + staff) or Rabid/dire full condition build. (Sceptor/Torch + GS or Staff)

You could sort of roam with the condition build as well but the aoe burning is best for zerg fights.

Benty.7140:

So I’ve got 46 tomes of knowledge sitting in my bank right now along with a birthday booster to get any character to level 20. The plan is to use them on a new revenant but I wonder if I’m going to destroy the experience in using them and being a instant-max char? I usually dont learn a class well until I’m max level(I’m still clueless on a lot of stuff on my engi and he’s been 80 forever), so does anyone who’s played a bit in the beta think its going to hurt the experience or won’t it matter?

If you don’t like it then don’t use it. All new zones are level 80 anyway so leveling to 80 instantly if anything is the best way to get to the new content.

FrizzFreston.5290:

There’s no inherent need for thief to have a 1200 range weapon. Thief already has several skills to close the gap.

Even so, the range on the weapon would just make it more difficult to fit in the picture of the thief as a whole. Thief has stealth, dodges, jumps and is overall just very mobile. A rifle in the form of a sniper at 1200 range is the kind of opposite. Sitting back at long range occasionally moving.

That said, there’s a possibility of more of a shotgun/assault rifle that would only work at close to 900 range where the rest of the thief skills would just make more sense with.

Since the specialization class changes the class pretty drastically as seen with the dragon hunter and reaper reveals it’s pretty obvious that if in fact the rifle will be the new weapon for thieves that there will be a trait line and mechanics to account for the long range abilities.

It’s plausible that the new specialization will be something like Marksman or Sniper in that theme with ranged DPS as the focus.

penelopehannibal.8947:

DeathPanel.8362:

It’s doubtful thieves will get staff since rangers are already getting the staff. It’s also counter to the theme of thieves to use staffs.

If anything thieves lack long range weaponry and a rifle would round out the thief class in that manner.

ArenaNet never said each weapon will be unique to one elite specialisation. >.<

But judging from the current reveals that is the route they are going.

My point about staff not begin on theme for thieves and that they lack a dedicated long range (1200+) weapon is still valid.

Ranatoa.4869:

Yes and no…

Yes, if you purchased before January 23rd, 2015 (and you purchase the deluxe or ultimate edition) You will get one character slot included in the bundle, plus an additional slot for being a veteran player.

No, you will not get both immediately. The one included in the bundle will be applied immediately, however, they do not yet have a method to give the additional character slot to veteran accounts yet. Once that is figured out you should receive your second character slot.

Purchased the original game or the HOT pre-purchase? As far as I know the HOT pre-purchase wasn’t available until fairly recently.

Wanze.8410:

Pifil.5193:

The exotics should be salvagable, either way, in order to let people get their runes/sigils back. I personally don’t care if salvaging them would give you back crafting materials or not.

So i just buy melandru gear with karma, as I have about 6 million of it, and get the rune to sell it?

Sounds legit.

You probably won’t make much money since the market price for melandru runes would crash to a couple of silver each.

penelopehannibal.8947:

Gern.2978:

How so? From a logical point of view, it makes far more sense than staff because of all the reasons I listed originally.

This sounds to me like what you’re saying is “My point of view is above everybody else’s and only I have a logical opinion”.

I’ve already said earlier that the thief already has more ranged attacks than melee. So in my opinion, it makes more sense for thief to get staff rather than rifle.

Anything can happen though, even with the picture of a specialisation background, that’s clearly a thief holding a [&C6EXAAA=], anything can still happen. Thief could end up with a focus yet. Imagine running around as a thief with the Inquest key-shaped focus!

It’s doubtful thieves will get staff since rangers are already getting the staff. It’s also counter to the theme of thieves to use staffs.

If anything thieves lack long range weaponry and a rifle would round out the thief class in that manner.

Trajan.4953:

No Vayne, usually I agree with you, but this is the first real chance for WvW-rs to see this BL, stress test or not. Giving it to some streamer, who as of June 15 hit WvW rank 126, to dictate who gets in is just pitiful.

That’s not the point of the test. They aren’t doing this stress test to show anything off to the player base. They are doing a STRESS TEST to see how the server handles the stress of full player load in order to make adjustments. A totally new player is just as useful as a veteran to the test.

Brian Ponder.9017:

Dinks.2478:

Did you join a zerker only LFG? Are you a power necro or a condi necro? A lot of this stuff matters. Also Ralanost, just because you don’t want the dungeon to take longer than it needs to doesn’t mean you’re an elitist.

Actually, that’s kind of exactly what it means.

It means you refuse to do anything that you deem “Imperfect”, including taking on a party member that “Hampers” your DPS. I can’t even do the level 35 dungeon because of people like that.

The dungeon levels in this game are misleading. Explorable dungeons are for the most part done by 80s. It’s possible to do with the level minimum for the dungeon but that makes things much slower than it needs to be and most pug people won’t accept sub 80s in their explorable dungeon runs.

Darkmage.6830:

Has anyone that pre-purchased the HoT expansion (standard edition) got his character slot ?

I don’t think you get a slot for only standard. I pre-purchased the highest tier one forgot the name and got the 1 character slot right away from that.

xbutcherx.3861:

NikeEU.7690:

Why couldn’t you run a Sinister warrior in a dungeon?

Because they are very bad maybe? I would insta kick cond warrior.

I doubt others would simply follow your lead and also vote for the kick simply because it’s a cond warrior. You could be naked with any weapon and still face roll through pretty much all dungeons anyway. Acting over the top elitist like that is liable to get you kicked instead unless the group is stacked with your friends or guild mates.

It may not be optimal for dungeons but it’s no where near “very bad”. It’s more than viable to do all dungeons if the player playing understands the mechanics well.

Girdie.7480:

So I’m a casual player on GW2 and I want other people’s opinions on how I should build my guardian. I just got her to 80 and I will probably go down the berserker road because from what I’ve read it seems the most affective(effective?).

I like using a mace/focus and a greatsword, so all I’m wondering is where I could get a good pair of berserker armor/weapons that will be good for PvE.

And if you think any other build besides berserker would be better please put in some input, I don’t know how guardians are usually built.

Thankyou

If you are new the best way is to farm citadel of flame explorable path 1 and 2 for tokens to get the exotic berserker armor and weapon pieces. For jewelry you can either farm pristine tokens in fractals of the mists dungeon for ascended berserkers or just craft them or buy exotic berserker jewelry from trading post if you don’t want to craft.

Gav.1425:

Like many of you, I am excited for the new mastery system, even though we’ve heard very little about it. New flavor and new content is always welcome.

And like many more of you, I play multiple characters—all 8 of them (and soon 9—gear and tomes awaiting the revonant) and in all types of content PvP, WvW, PvE…

With new masteries coming out, will we be forced into “maining” one character to be able to progress their mastery enough to reach the new content? If maxing a mastery is too fast, we’ll just speed run and blow through everything and end up bored. If it’s too slow, we’ll have to pick a favorite to progress it to the end, leaving many alts behind.

Will mastery be similar to WvW Rank where it’s account-shared, yet you can spend your points differently on each character? This would be the best case scenario.

I have 24 80s and will have 27 80s when HOT comes out. So I probably would need everything to be shared or else it will take me forever to progress.

meshu.6832:

“So, you wanna join me in next weeks new WvW map stress test eh? If you will be available July 9th between 5pm and 9pm EDT (The WHOLE time) please reply to this thread after having registered on these forums with the following information:

1- Ingame account name (ie. Docgotgame.8206) 2- Twitch username 3- Are you in WAL on Crystal Desert? 4- If no what guild are you in?

Please understand that my guild members will take priority as slots are limited. Thank you for your interest and good luck in being selected!"

http://new.docgotgame.com/threads/wvw-stress-test-july-9th.938/

some guy ‘Doc got game’ who plays the game since a couple of months and already got invited to all press events including a studio tour.

Explain please. How come a new WvW ( commander) who does not even know half his abilities gets an invite and that HE decides who will join the beta?

Experience is irrelevant to map stress tests. They are not testing balance.

guildwarstwentytwelve.5693:

Just want to say I am on the verge of quitting the game, because it is so broken with dps and bugs. I understand that you want to get HoT out, but you should have made these changes a year ago. Its naive to think you can make so many large changes this close to an xpack release and it go smooth.

Right now dps is sky high, even with a full healing build trying to keep team mates up, its useless. Engi shares 1k to group big deal the entire group is getting hit for 4k per tick burning and thats just one condi.

Its time to fix things, or start losing customers, just letting you know how I feel about the game. I’m not freaking out because the game is not my life, but I would think you would want to hear from customers, so here it is.

This game is supported by casuals imo and when you break it this bad you only have a short time before people walk. Casuals dont hang around forever like hard cores, thats why they are called casuals.

Good luck I hate to see this game die off, but right now, its just not fun.

The title of your thread is not accurate. “DPS is broken and WE are tired of it” should be rephrased to “I think DPS is broken and I AM tired of it”.

You don’t speak for everyone and you certainly don’t speak for me given what you’ve said.

They are probably either going to nerf the way that combo field interaction works, or go overboard and nerf conditions overall.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

DeathPanel.8362:

They need to be permanently out there at the very least before they can be considered as viable.

Even if they were made permanently available like necro minnions they would still suck due to the AI and the fact they can be killed so easily.

Frankly I wish they would just change them to be more of a mix between warrior banners & ranger spirits.

They would be invulnerable, and you would drop them at a spot to give an area buff to a stat.
Then you could command them to give you & or nearby allies a special effect.

They started off as invulnerable but because of some issues that caused in pvp they were nerfed down to temporary pets with bad stats.

I mentioned the permanent thing only as a first step. Obviously the hp and effects would have to be buffed much more before the build can be considered competitive.

It would be good for consistency’s sake to have some signet passive or minor trait which grants 25% movement speed while equipping a certain weapon or something.

They need to be permanently out there at the very least before they can be considered as viable.

Most likely not going to happen. Since many personal story quests are done by race they are not going to waste time creating a bunch of race specific story quests when it doesn’t create much value.

Alternatively they could create the race with less or no personal story quests aside from the shared faction quests but then people may complain that.

Personally I’d rather play the Kodan. They are much more lore friendly and makes sense.

The break bar is essentially a rip off of Final Fantasy 13’s break bar. Once you hit the mob with enough attacks in a short period of time it will “break” and sustain additional damage or be vulnerable to additional conditions.

They are only painful in that they are tedious and take a long time once you did them after the 24th time because of alts. In terms of difficulty they can be easily soloable by any half competent player in gear only picked up randomly as leveling.

Seishiro.7468:

DeathPanel.8362:

The problem with Zhaitan is you can’t really do an epic dragon fight with just a 5 player instance. They should’ve implemented Zhaitan as a world boss in cursed shore in line with difficulty and scale of TEQ.

naaah, that would be no good because it wouldn’t feel like we really killed an elder dragon, when it just gets done every 3 hours. That and, I prefer it beeing press 1 to win over it beeing a zergrush that gets done every 3 hours.

The Bosses in the storymodes are pretty important to the overall lore in the world, be it king Adelbern, Gaheron Baelfire or Zhaitan.

The fight against Scarlett was able to do this because it was part open world and part instanced, that said though, it worked only because it was in a limited time window and now Scarlett is dead for certain.

Maybe they will try to approach Mordremoth like that, but it wouldn’t work for Zhaitan anymore, since he has been dead for quite some time in the timeline now.

That idea is bad. Making Mordremoth temporary like Scarlet makes no sense since he is tied to the expansion and not living story. All that means is someone getting the expansion at a later date after the time period would be locked out of crucial content. The best way to do it is via world boss implementation with zone wide event chain.

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

So I was thinking about this new feature really helping prevent some of those rage kicks that have been seen, but I also realized a potential flaw in the system.

Assume you’re in a dungeon with a party of 5 and 3 of them dc stating they have to go without leaving the party. I realize there is an inactivity timer that removes them, but we as players would normally have 2 options: wait for them to be kicked from party by the game or request a second for kicking them.

Currently the 3 vote system leaves 2 players stranded in a situation like that if the game doesn’t check to see if the status of a dc’d player is offline because using the Leave Party option would disconnect you from the dungeon instance.

I personally haven’t tested this as I haven’t run into it yet, but I was wondering if anyone else can validate my concern or dismiss it?

That situation is fringe and rarely if ever occurs. Chances are extremely unlikely that somehow 3 people just happen to all dc or go afk at the same time and all decide not to come back unless they are purposefully coordinating to troll you.

CureForLiving.5360:

DeathPanel.8362:

The only way it could be epicly good is if they made it a world boss where 100+ players are involved. A dungeon boss or storyline boss would have to be toned down a lot and essentially be Zhaitan 2.0.

I don’t think Zhaitan’s fight was bad, I just think it was incomplete.

The problem with Zhaitan is you can’t really do an epic dragon fight with just a 5 player instance. They should’ve implemented Zhaitan as a world boss in cursed shore in line with difficulty and scale of TEQ.

Whatever they will be it will most likely be tailored to specific roles.
So far the 2 legends are focused on Defense and Conditions. So it’s logical to surmise the other 2 will be focused on Offense and Support.

Hoping they’d get a rifle. A long ranged direct damage 2hand weapon should round out the class nicely.

There’s no valid reason to complain especially since no details of what the skills are going to be or what new specializations there will be for Mesmer. People are just looking for any reason to complain nowadays.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

I just wanted to give some praise to a very inexpensive and useful sigil: Sigil of Speed. On kill you get (unmodified) 20 seconds of swiftness for the superior version. It’s currently going for under 7s on the Trading Post.

I’ve read many complaints/observations about how movement-impaired the guardian class is. I can’t agree more. Often the solution suggested is to utilize a weapon-swap staff Symbol of Swiftness.

I’ve found that with just killing the usual handful of trash mobs on the map, I’m rarely without swiftness, and often I’m keeping up anywhere between 1.5 to 3.5 minutes’ worth.

The main drawback is, of course, you have to give up a sigil slot that could otherwise be dedicated to damage, support, etc. The other drawback of needing to kill a mob to gain the benefit is one I haven’t really experienced: I always have to kill trash mobs no matter where I go.

If you can afford to give up the sigil slot, I highly recommend you give this sigil a try.

As it probably matters to the reader, I mostly do PVE and dabble in WvW. I wouldn’t know if this sigil is as useful in PvP.

Thanx for taking the time to read this,

~J

It’s not too useful in wvw. Since there’s a few seconds delay after each battle in which you still count as “being in battle” which means your base movement is nerfed. So having swiftness based on a nerfed movement base doesn’t actually help you and by the time you exit out of battle state your swiftness would’ve worn off.

Shiki.7148:

Other possibility : Create dungeons where condi is king, others where zerker is king and others where boon removal and condi cleanse is king etc. One Meta per dungeon, but something for everybody. I think it was a litle like this in GW1.

There, two easy ways to give different playstyles the chance of rocking the hood. you’re welcome. Not that A-Net would read this and think about doing any of it ._.

This idea has already been explored in this thread. The main point of contention is that there’s no evidence that this would lead to any better outcomes.

Currently all options are viable. You start making conditions more viable than direct damage for example in some content and not others it basically means the other non condition builds are less viable. The only builds that will be most hurt by this are the defensive non dps and other non optimal builds because they would end up doing even less damage.

Forcing diversity for the sake of diversity is not a good idea because in doing so you are actually removing diversity if your method is used.

What should be done is to bring condition damage in line with zerk damage via removal of caps on stacks or have the cap per player instead of overall.

Non dps defense builds will never be optimal unless you implement cheap undodgeable auto hit trinity bosses because that is the only situation where toughness and hp actually matters.

Tim.6450:

DeathPanel.8362:

That’s a ridiculous example. That just means the meta is toughness condition. And honestly do you think that encounter would be in anyway fun? People like you would start a riot on this forum if that type of encounter was implemented.

Of course it is a ridiculous example. It was meant to show that there exist ways to design content with defensive gear optimal without any tanks or healers. I would never implement this example in rl, but I would use the recoil mechanic on a high defense boss idea.

Wrong. Because condition damage is considered to be a dps stat. So in fact your example is invalid. You’ve basically traded one set of dps stat for another. My original statement stands.

Where you argue that people with sub optimal gear choices still can do content and therefor the zerg meta is not an issue. My comment: “Playable and optimal are two different things.” implies that the issue is not playability of content but the optimality of zerker in the content.

Which is in no way related to my comments, making your response nonsensical to the original context of my statement.

It would be as if I stated, “some oranges are sour”, and you responded with “You’re wrong, some apples are not sour”. It’s not a valid response to my statement.
Also, there’s no evidence that zerk meta applies to world bosses or have any non trivial effect on them because they get zerged down quickly regardless. As I’ve already pointed out, people do world bosses with any and all builds just as fine with no appreciable difference.

You can make an argument for the narrow number of groups that choose to coordinate speed runs which can clear dungeon instances quicker with zerk gear. But that subset of players is tiny compared to the general population and isn’t an issue in normal gameplay.

For example I’ve run dungeons with all my 24 characters since release of this game, and I haven’t joined or had to join a single speed run team. Because speed runners are usually friends or guildmates that coordinate via teamspeak or vent. A vast majority of teams are pugs that don’t speed run or require any specific gear so this isn’t even an issue.

People like you are essentially coming up with bad solutions to a problem that isn’t even real.

ODB.6891:

Windsagio.1340:

ODB.6891:

Windsagio.1340:

ODB.6891:

Windsagio.1340:

Skimmed the last 2.5 pages, so maybe Imissed some;

Seems that the arguement comes down to non-designers (with or without agenda) insiting that it’s impossible for designers to design a different system without massive direct nerfs.

More evidence that players aren’t actually game designers I guess ><

~~~

It’s in some ways difficult, but certainly not impossible.

Seems to me the argument comes down to non-designers (with or without agenda) insiting that it’s possible for designers to design a different system without massive direct nerfs.

More evidence that players aren’t actually game designers I guess.

See what I did there? I see you’ve been using some kind of debate strategy this whole thread where you make a statement like this with obvious bias…where you specifically omit the fact that the other side is just as guilty. You dress it up and make it sound well informed, but at the end of the day…its just a jab at the other side. Like way earlier in the thread, anytime someone argued against you…you’d respond as “that’s why we can’t have a discussion”. If you have something valid to say…or just your opinion…just say it and leave this stuff out.

I’m a paid designer tho (in no way associated with Arenanet) :p

More to the point, saying something is impossible is far more bold than saying something is possible.

semantics….you know what the point was.

Yes and it’s invalid. There’s a massive difference between ‘this can be done here’s some speculation, ideas, and discussion on the subject’ and ‘nope, can’t be done don’t bother talking about it it’s impossible’

Also, not really semantics, but I hate to grammar kitten ><

EDIT:

It’s funny how the people who agree with me all understand how things work and are supposed to work, and the people who disagree simply have no idea.

Okay, I’ll make it simple for you. Since you are possibly intentionally evading the point of my original reply to you. The point of that reply had absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter of this thread. The point of my reply had everything to do with the snide replies to other’s posts…much like the way you just did with the edit to your reply to me. The point of my reply also had to do with the misleading/intentional omissions in your replies to others in this thread. At the end of the day, it has just been annoying watching your condescending replies, since it has been entirely unnecessary to reply that way. If you are actually a designer/developer…I really hope you are in no way a customer facing employee with that personality. Even if you are a designer/developer…that does not make you automatically correct about anything. That does not make your ideas valid or other’s invalid. And yeah…everyone hates a grammar kitten.

To be fair, developers are usually never customer facing unless you’re in some small startup.

Lazaar.9123:

I’m going to laugh when more difficult content is actually going to affect the people using defensive stats in the first place, because of them not having the skill level to complete the content. There’s always people that cry for nerfs when anything remotely difficult is put in the game.

Exactly right.

Those people simply don’t understand how this game works. A majority of the mitigation in this game comes from active defenses like evades, blinds, aegis, reflect, etc and not passive defense like from toughness and hp. Even if content was raised in difficulty to make it harder to survive it’s the people that rely on passive defense to survive that will be hurt the most.

Tim.6450:

DeathPanel.8362:

Because without tanks and healer roles you can’t have pve content that requires someone gear in defensive gear, at least not the type of content that don’t frustrate people. (ie bosses that have massive 1-2 shot kill undodgeable abilities unless you gear soldiers and other someone to heal you in cleric gear while you taunt boss as is in traditional trinity)

When content can be done with any gear the obvious logical result is that the gear which gives you the most dps wins out as the optimal. The only thing that making content harder in order to discourage this will do is make builds and group setups more restrictive and exclude people who otherwise want to play with fun builds.

Well an example that could be used is a 5 man boss with 150000 health, 15000 armor that has an attack that recoil equal to the damage done. If it downs a player it gains health equal to the player max health. The base damage of that attack 10000 on light armor which happens ever 5 seconds. Would zerker be optimal?

That’s a ridiculous example. That just means the meta is toughness condition. And honestly do you think that encounter would be in anyway fun? People like you would start a riot on this forum if that type of encounter was implemented.

Tim.6450:

DeathPanel.8362:

Irrelevant. My point is about ANET’s philosophy, not what passive dense is. I don’t need you to rehash something I already know. Your statement in no way refutes mine.

Focussing on active defense does not mean that active defense should be the only meaningfull defense. Also if you look at the ‘new’ grant masters it does contain a variety of stuff (passive defense, healing,…) so I’m not sure if the design philosophy is only about active defense.

Again, irrelevant. I was talking about ANET’s philosophy. Go argue with ANET.

Tim.6450:

DeathPanel.8362:

I didn’t say fun and difficult are mutually exclusive.
Also note that the marionette world boss was done by zergs of people with a vast variety in gear choice including many that are sub level 80 using just junk gear. Proving that the zerg meta isn’t remotely an issue in even your own example.

Playable and optimal are two different things.

You must have fun arguing with the nonexistent ethereal strawman version of me, because you keep on arguing against me as if I said things I never said.

Tim.6450:

DeathPanel.8362:

Without the return of the trinity no gear with non dps survival stats will ever be optimal, (I include condition as a dps stat in this context).

Can you prove this ? That the only way for optimal play is to have gear with no non dps stats, no matter the design of the encounter as long we have no holy trinity?

Because without tanks and healer roles you can’t have pve content that requires someone gear in defensive gear, at least not the type of content that don’t frustrate people. (ie bosses that have massive 1-2 shot kill undodgeable abilities unless you gear soldiers and other someone to heal you in cleric gear while you taunt boss as is in traditional trinity)

When content can be done with any gear the obvious logical result is that the gear which gives you the most dps wins out as the optimal. The only thing that making content harder in order to discourage this will do is make builds and group setups more restrictive and exclude people who otherwise want to play with fun builds.

Knowing when to use your active defense and when not to is very important. You can incorporate such things in an encounter . Passive defense can be used to allow specific hits to be taken at higher frequency.

Irrelevant. My point is about ANET’s philosophy, not what passive dense is. I don’t need you to rehash something I already know. Your statement in no way refutes mine.

Tim.6450:

Also if you ask for more difficult content for the sake of difficult content then yeah it’s bad. The real question should be to ask for more fun content.

Fun and difficult are not mutually exclusive, my favorite example is the marionette.

I didn’t say fun and difficult are mutually exclusive.
Also note that the marionette world boss was done by zergs of people with a vast variety in gear choice including many that are sub level 80 using just junk gear. Proving that the zerg meta isn’t remotely an issue in even your own example.

No, because in the trailer you can clearly see charr characters running together with human characters on the same side.

Also it wouldn’t make sense considering then you’d just have one side with massively more people on it than the other.