https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Thoughts-and-Goodbyes/first#post1708928
I hope I cried the loudest.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Defektive-s-tPvP-Longbow-GS-Warrior-Build/first
Here you are my friend.
Since your in WvW you can supplement gear to be more tanky and still achieve the same success.
You also have to consider that, in a weird way, this change also buffs warrior’s and thief’s survivability.
Explain your reasoning.
They increased the duration of Frenzy, but kept the damage taken. Thats an survivability decrease.
Other classes can already poop on a Warrior without Frenzy needed.
You just don’t say ability X is justified because over-all a class is weak or average.
Agreed, but to modify ability ‘X’ without compensation else ware only reduces the effectiveness of the class. In this case, it’s reducing the effectiveness of the (competitively) worst class.
(edited by Defektive.7283)
Take a deep breath.
I bought this game for spvp.
However after playing both formats wvw is obviously the better one.
Don’t bash wvw updates, go play it and you will figure it out after a while, and wonder why you didn’t make the switch earlier.
Yet the development staff was more than happy to add in a whole new progression system for WvW with ‘WvW Ability Points’.
Sure I didn’t care for the player vs door part, but once you start getting gold at decent rates, being a guy throwing down the rams and stuff is kinda fun.
I don’t like WvW, and to clarify, I have played it a number of times. I bought and play this game for sPvP. Yet this sector of the game is just getting reamed patch after patch.
That warrior could use some buffs and tweaks in certain areas, yeah.
But quickness was bad before (in my opinion it will still be bad with the 50% nerf, but have to test that first). Someone using a 0.25s skill reduced that time to 0.125s. I currently have a latency of 63ms.
So I would have to react to an incoming skill in 0.062s.That’s just impossible.
I understand that. So just remove quickness all together across the board and revamp Warriors traits / utilities (as well as other classes) to accommodate a less bursty environment.
We’ve been able to be very dominant with out warrior pick and I never felt like it was a great handicap. Warrior was in an okayish position.
If played in a team setting correctly a Warrior can do alright. But they have to be very aware of their teammates, condi cleanses from them etc. Other classes perform these abilities on their own so when comparing the two and determining which is more independent for different roles – a Warrior is usually shut out.
That’s not to say good teams can’t implement them successfully, the difference is the amount of effort needed to make it work and how that effort can’t be replicated for lower skill tiered players and their respected teams.
I’m at work so I can’t confirm this but. The Frenzy attack speed increase has been halved, but the damage taken is still the same.
100B / Frenzy is what makes a warrior viable in high end PvP. That sector just took a hit.
But it’s ok our banners now give you 80 more stats!
Not to mention our useless utilities and traits (hello Confusion on stun) didn’t get a wiggle of a change.
Yet the development staff was more than happy to add in a whole new progression system for WvW with ‘WvW Ability Points’.
God help me with my frustration.
(edited by Defektive.7283)
I’ve given up all hope for concrete Warrior changes.
I used to love making builds hoping to hit on the next ‘big build’. But I’ve basically lose all affection for this game. I still check in though to see if anything’s changed (it hasn’t).
I’m still here. What are you talking about?
we havnt played in almost 5 days this is crazy. we need to make a new team IMO
Challenge accepted.
As a software developer (I’m a Technical Lead / PM), finding C++ developers is rather easy. Finding good C++ developers is a whole other story.
They would never in their right mind release the source code to this game, not even snippets of it. It’s just incredibly bad business (competitors suddenly have access to snippets of your code or how certain things work).
Also, in regards to the UI. I’ve spoken to devs in the past in regards to their UI and how it’s structured. Creating a modifiable UI is basically impossible – I was told they would have to start from scratch to even have that option.
You need mobility, badly.
Defektive has a QA thread? Bout time.
Dear Defektive: A while back my GW2 Warrior and I broke up. I thought in the beginning that my ex truly was what I wanted, but after the initial excitement of the new relationship (I had dated previous Warriors before in other worlds and been fairly happy before I had to move away) I realized that my ex was very needy and fairly apathetic. Sure my ex was good for a quickie, busting a load in a moment of frenzy, but there was no sustain or stamina. My ex was constantly getting sick and needing outside intervention to remain healthy. As I looked around at the other choices out there I realized that my ex performed every role in a fairly substandard fashion. Sure my ex would go through the motions, but the results were average at best aside from the aforementioned minute-man style quickies.
I moved on and found others that filled my needs better. Maybe not all of them at the same time, but a fair number of them performed to excellence. Still, I do miss my ex and wish it could have worked out between us.
Do you have any advice? Is there any hope for my ex? How can I stop feeling unsatisfied with my ex’s mediocrity compared to others and is there a chance that my ex will improve?
http://www.mauryshow.com/be_a_guest.php
-Defektive
Lets turn this into a ‘good warrior youtube videos’ thread and count the number of videos with frenzy GS builds! Go!
I think Davinci brings up a good point, but he did it in a negative tone.
Simply stated, ArenaNet has in the past been known to push their balancing efforts based on tPvP (so how classes work in a team setting).
In sPvP (Hotjoin), certain classes and builds perform differently than when placed in the tPvP setting.
If tPvP is the future for ArenaNets competitive environment (and thus their aspirations to become an eSport), then tPvP is where ArenaNet will balance classes around.
While everyone is entitled to their opinion, ArenaNet is more pressed to consider the suggestions of people who spend their time in tPvP and tPvP statistics. In essence, sPvP ‘HotJoin’ players should wait to comment until they have spent more time in tPvP – this way their suggestions will be more thorough and will garner more attention from the ArenaNet balance team.
And to the topic maker, what the kitten man? I don’t know your name at all but I know alot of other warriors names that are extremely good, and none of them claims to be the best warrior of GW2. Chill out, go play. You’re not the best warrior in GW2, undoubted.
This.
Proclaiming yourself the best Warrior in the game with zero evidence is like stickying a target on your head saying “please toss cakes on my face, I’m a clown”.
It’s ok guys I’m here now. What questions do you have?
I see what you did there. Ill take it from here bro.
Thanks, I’m glad you can cover for me while I take a bathroom break.
And to the topic maker, what the kitten man? I don’t know your name at all but I know alot of other warriors names that are extremely good, and none of them claims to be the best warrior of GW2. Chill out, go play. You’re not the best warrior in GW2, undoubted.
This.
Proclaiming yourself the best Warrior in the game with zero evidence is like stickying a target on your head saying “please toss cakes on my face, I’m a clown”.
It’s ok guys I’m here now. What questions do you have?
Doesn’t cost you anything to move on and check for updates every now and then.
I said the same thing about TF2 a while back. But after getting tired of it I uninstalled figuring I could just install it again at a later date. But by that time other games had taken my interest and I havn’t played TF2 since.
I play tPvP (as a Warrior).
I also spend far to much time making builds in the hope they will be viable (95% of them aren’t).
The latest patch was a disappointment for me in terms of tPvP strategy depth and class skill depth.
As in: I personally don’t feel that this game is not mature enough to be considered strategically significant past timing of taking nodes and locking enemies in bad positions.
A good example from SOTG was during the Spirit Watch discussion – how winning your first real battle for the Orb can easily snowball the rest of the game. That’s the only ‘skill’ I see in this game, forcing your enemy into a role that gives you a incredible lead.
I think the only class’s that have a high skill potential are Engys/Necros/Ele’s, mainly because all of these classes have diverse skill mechanics.
But I play a Warrior, and it feels like torture. Even with the mentioned banner buff – that won’t be enough to make banners useful. Many weaponsets are blatantly not viable, especially where Mobility is king.
Also: Warrior traits for sPvP don’t line up.
Example:
1) Confusion on interrupt - well they can’t attack you anyway during a stun so putting Confusion on them makes no difference, where’s the logic behind this?
2) Gain 5 stacks of Might and proc Berserkers Rage (SP?) - granting adren regen. Why is this a 30 point talent? It’s a 10 pt talent at best.
I feel pigionholed, and often times helpless to conditions or the better classes who have more mobility, control, sustained damage, healing or bunker abilities.
Personally, I’ve been playing this game since launch. My warrior is 80, I’ve met many interesting people, most of which I’d call my (e)friends. But at this point, my will to play has been lost. Without any real, definitive, tangible changes in the future I find it difficult to reason with myself to keep playing.
I’m not going to mention how the inherent class mechanics and ‘templates’ that classes have been built on turn away new players. I’m not going to mention the lack of in-game incentives to keep playing.
All I’m trying to say is. What reason is there for someone like me (a PvPer) to not uninstall and move on? Because at this rate, it’s looking like I’ll do it tomorrow night after I move (I’m moving tomorrow yay packing).
Thoughts? Expressions? Emotions? Negative feedback? Let me know what you think I (or someone in my position) should do.
Thank you.
(edited by Defektive.7283)
They are just doubling the stats you receive from banners.
This isn’t any great increase in total effectiveness or usefulness of the banner build (in tPvP, this is prob great for PvE).
I am wondering what EU things of the warrior? I have a good sense of the NA view, but if it is better in EU I may have to transfer
triple banner mace mace rifle builds dominate the ladder.
I’m completely at a loss for Karl’s inability to do public speaking.
I’m watching the SOTG now and will be determining if I’m quitting the game or not in the last 45 minutes of it.
Reserved for content from the future.
Don’t worry much about banner’s etc until you hit 80. I think especially when you’re leveling they are not that great solo (except for the movement speed buff). Later on banner warrior are quite viable as the regen is nice!
Except in s/tPvP.
Hypothetically this is true.
In practice its not.
fight any high end tPvP team and you’ll basically be a liability.
Unless u wanted to be a bunker. The main risk here is poison so pvp is not a good place for this. but fractals and pve are perfect.
Warriors cant be bunkers currently. They aren’t viable in that role.
Ontop of that, regen doesn’t work very well overall unless you can couple it with protection (which warriors don’t have access to).
Not to mention that any self-healing class has access to burst healing from skills and thats what makes them strong. Not regen.
Also – regen doesn’t scale very well with any options provided to Warriors.
Hypothetically this is true.
In practice its not.
fight any high end tPvP team and you’ll basically be a liability.
Wait. Are you promoting yourself by showing us a video of a couple Bullscharge-100b and Eviscerates on r5 people in hotjoin?
Just checking.
Yes, yes he is. And that’s ok! I think.
ONE HUNDO BLADES
sPvP is awesome in GW2. The depth of combat and the wide variety of effective strategies is just mind boggling. Anet did an excellent job managing to add such a high skill cap to gw2. I only want the fiery dragon sword to be fixed in the next patch. Apart from that gw2 is the best game I have ever played from a PvP perspective.
Said no one ever.
It honestly is one of the better PvP options for any MMO, and most likely the best from a non-subscription game.
And yet it’s doing so poorly.
Just goes to show that there’s definitely an opportunity for a company to come in and shake up the market.
sPvP is awesome in GW2. The depth of combat and the wide variety of effective strategies is just mind boggling. Anet did an excellent job managing to add such a high skill cap to gw2. I only want the fiery dragon sword to be fixed in the next patch. Apart from that gw2 is the best game I have ever played from a PvP perspective.
Said no one ever.
If the answers provided to us are not of substance and understanding, then I’ll be uninstalling (and recording it for proof).
140 bleed ticks, the fastest bleed stacking class AND the longest bleeds is hardly in need of a buff.
In PvP, classes can remove your bleeds incredibly fast due to the FIFI system (first in first out). Considering bleeds are constantly being applied, they are constantly first in. Thus they are the first condition out when cleansed.
In PvE the 25 stack limit forces groups to only bring 1 bleed classes period because then other classes overlap the condis and they will do less overall dps than just bringing pure damage.
Condi classes in general need a buff, Warrior condis specifically need a very very large buff.
Sometimes we don’t care.
cool guy writes a cool response
You must be new here.
This, a thousand times this.
True Story. Sometimes I miss being that clutch kitten in a PvP game that keeps the team afloat.
Seeing as the pvp in this game revolves entirely around map presence and objective/node control, I’d suggest making two lists: one based on a class’ power to hold an objective and one for the offensive pressure on said objective.
Key factors for one would be boons, healing and general survivability. Two can be measured by mobility, power burst and conditions damage spread.I think, this will be more suited to account for the “viable” builds each class currently adopts in the meta strategy.
1: Defense
S = Guardian, Elementalist
A = Engineer, Mesmer, Ranger
B = Necro, Thief
C = Warrior2: Offense
S = Mesmer, Elementalist, Thief
A = Necro, Ranger, Warrior
B = Engineer, Guardian
C =(You know the builds that are implied…)
You could, of course argue, both take place simultaneously in teamfights and that is certainly true, but I felt the previous lists were lackluster in their ability to accomodate both build variaties.
My opinion:
- Most balance issues come from sustain builds, permanent boons such as regeneration and protection break counters and make less classes viable, since the effects are not unique to each class.
- The map presence the Mesmer class provides ranks them highest and makes roaming strategies nearly obsolete: lack of Warriors and other melee roamers (besides thief).
- I think most people underestimate how strong Necroes are, they are largely abscent because of their lack of build strategies, which makes them easily countered.
I like it. If enough people can reply using this setup I’d be ‘forced’ to adopt it.
Community driven system is community driven.
Sooo this is the ideal thread for entirely irrelevant balance chitchat?
I got instakilled by a thief (selfbuffed only – no massive might stacks going on) today while in stunlock 1v1 even though i have 2K toughness + protection up + 17K life
that + infinite combat reset
and you seriously put thief in tier B?
admittedly this doesnt happen often – but in the end it really shouldnt happen at all
List is based on tPvP impression, not 1v1.
I approve of this thread.
You liked all five of my ideas! Sweet! I’ll get right on that.
I like how you pretend the public “decided” but you ignore any suggestion to the tier list you don’t agree with. Somehow it’s your list and not your list at the same time.
My simple concept was profession isn’t the only thing worth considering, not that a more expansive list would be simpler. That’s the second strawman, so I’m done. We’ve both made our points, so I don’t think there’s anything else to say. This isn’t a discussion anymore. Enjoy your list!
In a discussion such as this there needs to be something keeping the discussion clear and concise.
If people responded with 3-5 different lists based on different things every single time, then making a list in the first place would be incredibly difficult.
I gave people a broad guideline. I didn’t make it so complicated as to alienate potential contributors.
The guideline was simple:
Based on your experiences, what is the order in which classes are the best. Please use tPvP as your primary method of identifying your list.
I specifically didn’t say ‘give me a brain dump of everything on your mind regarding balance in this game and how they relate to classes’.
You ask the impossible, and when I say it can’t be reasonably done, you get your feathers ruffled.
Please make your own complicated list thread so as to keep the concepts separated and on-task.
(edited by Defektive.7283)
However, I could see a few lists based on roles. A bunker list, a roamer list and a support list (for example). Perhaps a condi list and a burst list. The point is profession isn’t all you need to know. It’s a very simple concept.
Please make a new topic that has a bunker list, a roamer list, a support list, a condi list, and a burst list. We’ll see how fast people will take time out of their day to create that many lists and voice their opinion on them.
I refer to the bolded.
@Defective See I knew I’d hurt your feelings. I’m sorry man. I just want your list (which you started, and update) to be as useful as possible. You set it up based on profession and not build, which I think is a mistake. And the whole point of a thread is so you don’t have to do all the work (although as OP you have to update). What if we (the rest of us) figured out the builds for you? Would you want to update? Or do you think it’s a bad idea no matter how little work it is for you?
You didn’t upset me. I’m just trying my best to explain to you why the list is the way it is. Yet you continually attempt to grind my gears.
If you can somehow muster a new method to display a list that the community finds is more useful then I will be all means be happy to update that at on the OP. (Seeing as the point of the list was to provide the community with a tool that ArenaNet themselves won’t provide – class statistics by tournament wins based on build).
The way I originally wanted the list to go was by team comp. But seeing as how limited the number of teams are in the game right now – the list was built off a broader idea:
How good is class A in comparison to the other classes?
The public decided, and I put it on the OP. It’s a very simple concept.
You shouldn’t list every slight change (different runes, sigil, 1 utility different). However a build with a different play style and team role ought to be mentioned if it is viable.
So tell me, when you put engi on tier B, what build is that you are assuming? P/P conditions? P/S bunker? Rifle burst? I’ve seen them all done well enough to be considered viable, and they are all very different.
As it stands this list teaches players not to think for themselves and just accept the meta as you envision it. Seems like a fancy version of the “nerf X, buff Y” threads but with even less substance.
You sound as if I’m the one making the list. I’m just monitoring it and updating it with the communities perception of each class and how they rank in the current meta.
If you would prefer to create a more intricate list that details classes by multiple builds then I implore you to start a thread in that direction.
As a working adult who has many things on his plate besides GW2 I’m not going to sit here and parse through multiple versions of threads that are in themselves multiple variations. If you really want that, then the ‘create thread’ button is -> That way.
I am proud to kick kittens with a tier B class according to this kittenty tier list.
don’t kick kittens hiba. bad karma
Not all ele builds are tier S and not all engi builds are tier B. Making such broad statements will only confuse people.
Right, the list isn’t for all the tier B engy builds or Tier B ele builds. The list is for the cream of crop. How does each class stack up against other classes when at its most optimal state.
These kinds of questions are resolved when fighting in tPvP and you see most ele’s being the same build, most warriors being the same build etc.
These builds are popular because in the current meta they are the most optimal builds.
Making a tier list based on each potential build is not productive since there are hundreds of combinations. Most of the combinations are not viable, some combinations are almost viable but haven’t really taken off yet and still require tweeking and theory crafting.
To make a Tier list that encompasses all these variables would lend itself to an ever dynamically growing list that really can’t be handled by forum-goers. This would require precise statistics and an automated system to add, subject or remove builds from a multi-dimensional list.
(edited by Defektive.7283)
Sigil of Paralyzation isn’t bugged, the coefficient to increase stun duration is bugged.
Currently it rounds up.
So if a stun is 2 seconds, and you add +10% stun duration, making it 2.2 seconds.
The bug kicks in and automatically bumps it to 3 seconds.
It’s kind of a dirty secret for hammer warriors.
Engi on the second lowest tier? I would move them up to Tier A or give them a + at least.
They have the three important builds (bunker, condi, burst), all of which are viable.
Also, I think this list would be more useful if you included the build, and allowed a profession to show up multiple times (once for each viable build). For example you might consider d/d valk ele Tier S, but what about zerker staff ele? (I swear I fought one in tpvp yesterday). Would help new players understand the meta better, and help Anet balance more accurately.
In a fighting games there’s no customization so saying “X, Y and Z” are the best is enough information. In this game, you need to know more. There is no class that belongs in the same tier for every build.
There’s only a handful of viable builds. Until there’s more build variety in the game, parsing the list out in such a way is not needed.
Edit:
I would categorize ‘viable’ as a build that is consistently seen and used in tPvP.
Just because you have seen a build in the past that someone was running does not make it viable. Considering I run tons of different builds, none are usually viable – I’m just in the process of attempting to make one viable through tPvP trial and error.
(edited by Defektive.7283)
Sword. Always sword.
Axe lacks everywhere but damage.
Axe F1 is predictable and counterable by any good player.
Sword has mobility.
Sword has damage (all be it, not the best).
Sword has a cripple.
Sword has immobolize.
When considering the new map, please also consider all other maps.
Has the new map introduced new builds that have succeeded in more places than just Spirit Watch?
Please change your lists accordingly.
The example used round numbers in order to stress a point. You’re getting really worked up over this.
Without protection, there’s no reason to settle for a medium amount of additional toughness. You just won’t see the results you’re looking for.