Overall, the problem isn’t quickness, or burst, or bunkers even. It’s Conquest.
When the game type is set, the maps are set – specifically around holding and taking points. Then there’s no other clear choice but Bunker/Burst/Mobility.
Until other game types are added either class balancing needs to happen for Nerfs/Buffs, or we’ll just have more of the same.
Daays in your scenerio I’d just always, always run 3 bunker, mesmer, Roamer/Burst.
Mesmer would just port the bunkers around to cap a point or to defend it, Roamer/Burst would be first responder when Portal is down.
(3 bunk – doub guardian ele) Basically perma stability for the group at all time, they wouldn’t get knocked off.
I hope they never. EVER. Bring MOBA into this game. I absolutely hate MOBA.
And then if they forced it on me in tPvP I’d just flip out and leave. Can’t stand that stuff.
Top to bottom. Easiest to Kill -> Hardest to Kill.
1) Warrior
2) Mesmer
3) Ranger
4) Thief
5) Necro
5) Engy
6) Guardian (Bunker + Block bug)
7) Ele
Did I miss any?
(edited by Defektive.7283)
Update:
This is the new build / weapon combo I’m running for tPvP:
http://www.twitch.tv/defektive/c/1720511
Solving the symptoms.
Let’s look at PvP favoring either burst classes or bunkers.
Burst classes exist because you need to take out people quickly to control a point. You jump in, drop someone, then exit and fight on the outskirts. You also need them to drop bunkers quickly to take the point.
Bunkers exist because you need someone on the point who can’t die quickly, but can knockback. A bunker doesn’t need damage. Just survivability.
All of this stems from the current design of Conquest Mode. One person on a point and no one can cap it. Doesn’t matter if your team has more players there, as long as one person is on the point, you can’t cap.
Change that to a team cap system and guess what.
Burst classes will die down because you need players on the point and while you have the potential to drop someone, getting off the point hinders your teams ability to cap. You need to be able to take and dish damage, not just dish.
Bunker classes will die down because there’s no point in dying slowly 1v2 when they’re capping the point from you. You need to be able to absorb and dish damage, not just absorb.The current game design is the problem. Not bunkers. Not burst. Not protection. Not haste. Until you’re required to go a more balanced spec, it will be either one or the other.
Not to be a thorn at your side but. Wouldnt just running more bunkers and having them on a point together always win anyway. Knocking them off the point even in a 2v3 scenerio. Knock 2 off at a time and you’ll slowly win the point.
Unless I’m not putting 2 and 2 together.
I think we need 3 game types. 5 maps that all game types can be used on. Rotated randomly, with game types chosen randomly.
Forcing players to think about balanced builds before a game starts.
Since I can’t edit my last post….
Heres an example:
http://www.twitch.tv/defektive/c/1720511#
My only gripe w/ thiefs is their teleport and how it can go through walls and exploit early point captures.
I’d also like to see their teleport attack stacking corrected, thats the issues w/ their initial burst.
I’ve actually been running a GS/Hammer build in tPvP and having a lot of success. Pretty sure for now on my stream is going to be featuring this style of PvP.
Shield is a great weapon if you’re building to be a glass cannon. Usually as a GC you can’t afford many utilities or traits to keep you alive longer. A shield gives you some flexibility in that area, as well as a stun to stop stomps/heals and to line up additional damage by a weapon swap.
There have been many times where a movement skill of mine was on CD and I would have died to mesmer shatter burst if I didn’t have a shield to quick swap to.
Ever consider a hacked approached to the Weapon Master 'concept'?
in Warrior
Posted by: Defektive.7283
I spend a lot of time tPvPing, there are a few times I say to myself:
“Nope not entering that fight with my weapons I won’t be a ton of help, gunna go help at another point.”
Now I’ve always carried weapons around to help me move quicker. Such as a warhorn for swiftness, or 1hand sword for the leap. Then quickly swap back to my ‘real’ weapons in prep for combat.
Yet a lot of my traited skills are linked together. Doing +X damage, or gain quickness under X conditions. etc. etc.
So I’m going to start bringing every weapon with me.
Rifle for when I’ll be a smoldering rubble if I enter a huge fight as a glass cannon.
A hammer for fighting mesmers.
1Handed Sword for fighting bunkers.
And I’m simply going to swap them out as the fight is needed.
Thoughts?
Hmmm maybe. I’ll take a look again when I get home from work (its been a slow, slow day).
Where are you getting burn damage from? Longbow?
Also, the confusion damage is hard to apply. Tried it for a bit since it requires an enemy casting, I found it unreliable to my overall damage.
well, I usually can hit an enemy between 2.5-3.5k a hit.
That’s going to mean at (round number) 100 dmg per bleed, and at a 1200 hit (sword) you’ll need:
Probably greater than 10 bleeds constantly on an enemy in order to at least break even on damage from more power/crit friendly builds.
While its easily doable to stack that many bleeds, quickly. The problem is more so how condition removal/reversal sets you back to square one.
Essentially, if the enemy doesnt have condition removal you’ll come out ahead – slightly.
If they DO have condition removal, you’ll be far behind.
It’s a tricky area in terms of numbers, and the success of a Condi build will result in enemy professions and how attentive they are to removing conditions.
s/tPvP perspective:
Personally, I don’t think its the right time for a Condi Warrior. So many other classes are hyper focused on Conditions where as its more of a Warrior Hobby.
As a class, we have a lot more going on in the direct damage sector. While its admirable to want to create a build, I don’t want people to purposely handicap themselves just to make a point.
Beware of condition removal/reversal.
I think right now the only real PvP requirement Warriors have is on-demand stability. Specifically for stomping, contesting a point or ressing.
I would like to see something like Longbow / Sword-Shield work with Fast hands (actually working) and the fighters rune (i think) where it reduces weapon swap cd by 1sec (4 sec cd between weap swapping).
Simply to Longbow burst down for additional condition dmg.
It’s really straight forward. Link contains all info including sigil/runes
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcRM0zc9bGx9MGVsVabVa8kiG707khR7khs7070z7kNb70m7kGL7ofD8ofY
20/30/0/0/20
5/6 Rune of Scholar
1/6 Divinity
Sig of Air on GS, Sig of Intel on Axe, Sig of Battle on Shield.
Zerker Am/Rune.
Here’s my contribution.
Defektive [ONE] - Warrior s/tPvP Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BELgi0uZYOI
I also stream / put up a lot of highlight video clips:
http://www.twitch.tv/defektive/videos?kind=highlights
Clips include 1v1 against bad odds. tPvP against good teams (latest is a Paid tourny vs. Team PZ).
You can also find my builds, a more in-depth highlight video layout and other PvP conversations on my team forum: http://forums.coalitiongaming.org/guildwars/
Which, my tPvP one or Hammer?
Current Paid tPvP meta is either Bunker or Burst. Need to fill that role on a team otherwise you won’t move very far.
Once things shift to more balanced builds then I’ll be moving back to my baby (hammer).
I don’t like it, but I want to stay competitive.
Amazing attack. I use it on cd.
(truthfully).
Great damage, and it doubles as another dodge.
Every warrior weapon except shield.
Even one handers have a 180 degree aoe.
(edited by Defektive.7283)
But the strengths and weaknesses you put forward are entirely opinionated. Players who aren’t doing that great but play often will of course blame it on the class.
Instead of telling new players DONT PLAY A WARRIOR IF YOU WANNA TPVP!
Just state the weaknesses such as:
-Can be easily kited.
-Can be tanky with certain traits, squishy with others.
There are a number of experienced Warriors doing really well, that alone is a proof of concept that class is solid.
I don’t like Tpvp and Spvp, and I don’t bother roaming on my own in WvW, but I enjoy big sieges and group fights.
The point of this thread, is that if a new player wants to be good at 1vs1 or structured/tournament pvp, then warrior is not the profession they will have much fun with in these areas.
There is just no arguing that warriors are better at pve than at pvp.. it is a simple fact.
In your own word choice:
-You don’t like tPvP, sPvP or bother to Roam in WvW (most likely for small fights)
You then go on to say warriors are bad at these things. Despite saying you don’t like them, thus don’t participate in them.
AKA, your own inexperience in the areas you are critique casts doubt on your presumption that Warriors are bad at tPvP, sPvP and 1v1’s.
(edited by Defektive.7283)
Here.
Hope you enjoy.
Back to topic!
Maybe throwing stars for theifs!
I would like to see a bayonet. We dont have as many bayonets in games like we used to in this country.
Hey, given how schizo the technology is in this game it wouldn’t be impossible. But I’d rather a warrior’s weapon than a soldier’s tool.
It was a sarcastic comment regarding the US presidential debates.
I apologize if I come off harsh Redscope. But you always enter a conversation stating how bad Warriors are, this is something I fundamentally disagree with, hence my passion.
Example:
http://www.twitch.tv/defektive/c/1717839
^tPvP – vs rank40+ bunker guardHow wrong is this?
He beats up on someone that obviously isn’t paying attention, then takes on a guard fighting another player.
When the guard finally turns to attack him, you find out he’s an ultimate noob bunker guard. No symbols, using dogs, using a sword main hand, and hardly even attacking. And he STILL manages to chase you out of the point. Then your buddy downs him.
I’m not seeing whats so good about this fight. Not saying I’m the best PvP player in the world, because I’m obviously not, but this vid is just a high powered warrior displaying how they still lose to a poorly-played and built bunker.
Redscope I always seem to have spell things out for you. Yet regardless of what I’m going to say you’ll cry wolf. However, I’ll give it my best shot once again.
The original topic: “A warrior cannot perform in any way in pvp in a situation”
I specifically singled out tPvP.
Now the bunker you’re seeing is a fairly common bunker build in tPvP. High regen/Protection while still being able to fight 1v1.
My point as to why Warriors are just fine in tPvP.
Remember, this is a team game: I came into the fight, singled out the weakest link. Enemy guardian was about to stomp my teammate and could have easily popped stability to guarantee it, I was also a good 600 range away.
I able to quickly eliminate the weak player and stomp him allowing for the res of my teammate. This provided my teammate with ample time to exit the battle and move on to killing their treb. (Staff ele vs. Guardian is a very long fight to watch).
This left me to deal with the bunker and either
A) keep the point contested until backup comes.
or
B) Cap it.
With a little luck and decent planning (note how when he was spinning to win I removed myself from the fight and let him flail around, minimizing damage and giving myself breathing room) I was able to defeat him.
-Luck: A crit.
-Decent planning: Waiting until he used his utilities so I could nab a full duration shield stun and follow up w/ an evis.
Your quote:
“And he STILL manages to chase you out of the point. Then your buddy downs him.”
He didn’t chase me, he was downed, I was at low HP. I wasn’t about to simply sit there and let him down me. I LoS’d, waited for a heal – but luckily Blackout came in early and removed him from the fight so I could go back to roaming.
To contest a point and fight over it you don’t have to just sit on a point completely in the square/circle. You just need to be running in and out of it while you wait for backup.
Oh by the way. Your comment “they still lose to a poorly-played and built bunker.”
I actually won the fight.
So lets recap with a TLDR:
-Quickly eliminated weak enemy.
-Ressed teammate I wouldn’t have been able to res otherwise.
-Free’d teammate to remove Treb from the game.
-Defeated enemy bunker to contest/cap point.
Side note: You always sound so angry when you make posts.
(edited by Defektive.7283)
I would like to see a bayonet. We dont have as many bayonets in games like we used to in this country.
(edited by Defektive.7283)
Block bug allows a guardian to block far more than 3 attacks. Were talking nigh invulnerability for 10 seconds if done right
Oh. Then ya prob fire lol sry
About 30% more dmg than fire. And if ur gs your focusing on one person so your gosl is highest spike on that individual
Sigil of air if your crit is > 40% passive.
They definitely track every time an ability is used.
But they can’t track it and assume every player is doing it on purpose. Thus it’s improbable.
tPvP Build or personal Build that I’d prefer to play?
Edit:
http://forums.coalitiongaming.org/guildwars/defektives-build-thread/
^Personal build that I’d prefer to play 24/7.
I love my warrior.
A lot.
I think we’re extremely durable even when built like a glass cannon.
Lots of stuns / knock backs / gap extenders.
Endurance regen up the wazoo (lots and lots of dodges).
Not to mention options for endure pain, traited endure pain and shield stance.
Love it. Wouldn’t play any other class.
(edited by Defektive.7283)
I’m going to start running a Longbow banner build where I pick up and put down banners for the blast finisher.
#Balance
^This is true. Despite winning, it’s still annoying none the less.
Hi there.
I represent Coalition Gaming (http:\\www.CoalitionGaming.org) and I’m here today to share my streaming antics. Come watch me make a fool out of myself!
If you like the following:
tPvP - Free / Paid
Highlight Videos (1v1’s, 1v2’s, teamwork)
Matches against high level players (example: vs. Team PZ).
Then you may want to check out my twitch page!
Here are a few highlight videos to wet your appetite!
http://forums.coalitiongaming.org/guildwars/defektives-spvp-highlight-videos/
If you like what you see then please subscribe!
Thanks.
-Defektive
(edited by Defektive.7283)
Huzzah for fellow COAL Members streaming!
There are essentially 0 competitive rifle warriors.
For good reason.
[b]I agree that we are sort of one dimensional. I’ve tried all the other classes and frankly I didn’t find them fun or interesting.
Since I hate WvW, and as a person I’m extremely competitive. I’m forced to play builds that function most optimally in a tPvP Scenerio.
I’ve been tinkering with combining the best of both worlds – GS/Hammer. We’ll see how it goes.[/b]
Hey Defektive, any chance you can share the build you are playing around with? Would love to see something like this combining CC and burst DPS. I’m currently running axe/mace + mace/shield but find the burst somewhat lacking.
Right now it’s just a standard 20/30/0/0/20 build, but I swap in Knights ammy w/ zerker rune to bump up the HP since I’ll be losing my shield.
However, I’m finding against extremely good players you’ll need a Shield to keep a fight going.
Example:
Paid tPvP match against Team PZ
http://www.twitch.tv/defektive/c/1718555
A number of times my shield saved my bottom in 1v1’s against Xee.
Ya It’s getting a little annoying.
Some guardians are nice about it at first. But when they feel embarrassed to lose 1v1 to a Warrior they start bugging like crazy.
Most teams now run doub Guardian for that reason.
Frenzy is essential for warriors unfortunately.
I like the concept, the problem being you need stability in competitive pvp, so there goes one utility.
And you need frenzy so there goes a second.
So now it comes down to, do you trait really hard only for one shout.
Frenzy COULD be swapped out, but you’d need solid teammates setting up immobolizes in order to get off good combos.
Can you tell us how the meeting goes?
(edited by Defektive.7283)
I like the concept idea. But im on a tablet at work. Will comment more later.
Or maybe it just wasnt the class for you.
In tpvp im a lot more durable than a glass cannon thief.
Warriors bring consistent spike, on demand stability, roaming, longevity through endurance regen and invuls. Stuns and knockdowns up the wazoo.
On that note. If everyone was so perfectly equal, then 5 necro teams would be viable. What kind of diversity is that? One class should lose to another in order to force diverse team comps and strategy.