Guild Wars 2

Yea, the Armageddon is here. PU mesmers! PU mesmers EVERYWHERE!

This is like dhuumfire only that these guys can’t hold points for the life of them.

Ask the devs. They wanted to bring in Runes of Perplexity instead of every other rune that could possibly not blow up the meta.

CMF.5461:

been there, done that since launch, looking to try new things and theory craft. New ideas not old ones, or we go stale.

I’ve actually fought a guy who played a very similar spec to that. He also had absolute resolution To help him combat condis.

I liked his build. Of course, it would do nothing against tanky characters but, it definitely would fry the brains out of any condi class.

tigirius.9014:

Dirame.8521:

tigirius.9014:

But you see we’ve written about this multiple times and it still falls on deaf ears.

Doesn’t mean we should stop talking about it.

It’s something that needs to be developed and worked on to extend the variety of builds in the Engineers kitten nal.

My builds used to use both the Explosives line and the Firearms line, but the change to Incendiary Powder and Kit Refinement has forced me to spread my traits out further into the Alchemy line for sustainability and further into the explosives to get Incendiary powder.

Oh no I think these things aren’t talked about enough really and I think that there needs to be some method some outcry some internet message to the developers to really grab their attention, maybe at a game con maybe in an internet video put out there by someone the players will know and recognize that will get news started about the players being ignored here on the forums. It’s time for a revamp, it really is there’s just so much wrong with the game at this point that a huge patch is needed. People have already started making the statements that in order for this game to be fixed and fixed properly they need to have a really focused expansion with a large number of fixes to the problems that are already here in which they follow the same pattern they did when launch was coming and they spoke directly with the playerbase everywhere they could to get information on what people wanted. (incidentally that’s how the manifesto was built in the first place.)

Get your mind off that expansion. I don’t think it will solve as many problems as people keep thinking it will solve.
The problems that Anet needs to fix, need to be targeted and well thought out. It’s something that you put on a bulletin board and when it’s time for that, you put your mind to it and you make it perfect.
Right now, there’s so many things that Arenanet needs to fix that the list on the bulletin board could go as far as the lobby and the parking lot.

MonMalthias.4763:

Dirame.8521:

Did this topic get deleted or something?

EDIT: There was a bug, I fixed it by commenting.

Oops, sorry, I didn’t mean to hit the post #49 bug by double posting.

Dirame.8521:

The thing I noticed about GW2 and I think they mentioned this at some point, is that, they are going for a very free-handed skill interaction system. What this means is, they don’t want to dictate the way you combine skills like they did in GW1. Where most builds dictated the order in which you pressed buttons.
Most of the fights were not reactionary, just press buttons in a sequence and kite whilst the Monk does the real reactionary combat.

One thing that is definitely missing from GW2 is reactionary combat. Whilst the “no monk/healer” system in GW2 is quite groundbreaking and interesting, I feel that Anet dropped the ball in regards to putting in reactionary combat in other ways into the game for the professions. Mechanics like Ripostes/Blocks, Reflects, Walls, the Protection boon, Aegis and such; as I’ve mentioned in a previous post, aren’t fully explored by the Trait system. Nor is there a proper “riposte” system for Boons, Conditions or CC/Interrupts. I feel that traits that enforce reactive play can replace a lot of the RNG or passive %HP trigger or %on hit or %on Crit triggers to create a more transparent, easier to play/counterplay system.

GW2 is all about reactionary combat. Yes they have a bit of RNG inside it but the very nature of the dodge mechanic is all about reacting to what you can see so I really can’t say that this is missing from GW2.

There are also plenty of Riposte-ish skills and traits in GW2 and you did mention quite a few of them. I guess exploring them more in traits would be a good idea.

Blix.8021:

You seem confused.

But is GW2 all about dps?
The answer should and must be: NO

The answer to that question is actually yes. Use a GS please.

Yea… great way to show that you want build diversity in this game, bruh.

What I’ve come to understand is that, the balance of downstate correlates with how low/high the different health pools are.
The classes with lower health pools have tougher downed states but the classes with higher health pools have easier downed states.

It attempts to level the playing field in a situation where it would be quite easy to drop the thief or mesmer or Ele.

Wouldn’t it just be the same skill then?

Genoshock.2104:

Trinity or not.

How else will they incorporate new game modes?

By intelligently designing the new game modes with respect to the abilities of every class?

Did this topic get deleted or something?

EDIT: There was a bug, I fixed it by commenting.

Amaranthe.3578:

so,i bought gw2 at release but never got to play it seriously
now i really want to give the game a shot
the thing is,when playing a mmo,im the guy that sticks to one main through everything,for good and for bad i will play that class
which is why choosing that main is a pain for me
i really enjoy playing the “dark mage” type and necro seemed like the first choice for me
but i keep hearing from people that i know and from people in game that necros are just really really bad now and i should avoid them
i was told that necros are barely viable in spvp,not viable for high-end dungeons/fractals and are ok for generic solo pve(which doesnt matter cause every class has a good build for this)
is really that bad?

No it isn’t true what you heard about them in SPvP. The fact is, people just want to win everything and be everything and when they can’t, they just blame it on the developers.

Some things need fixing with the Necro, yes but it’s not so bad that you can’t play the class, get good at it and get a guild that will take you on dungeon runs and Fractals.

Make a build that stacks torment with Runes, Sigils and DS, make a DPS build that allows you to hit 5k shots with the auto-attack in DS, make a build that focuses on power but you can go into DS to get 50% crit chance.

Seriously, the things that work with the necro REALLY work. The things that don’t (life steal), you just stay away from.

tigirius.9014:

“We have enough diversity that in PvP the community feels our turret builds are OP. We are considered one of the best decap professions, we thrive in all aspects of WvW from front line commanding in a zerg, to tower defense, to tower assault, to roaming. We are in the top 3 in damage output in PvE. In each and every one of those cases, a very different build is used. We literally might have the most build diversity out of all the professions. "

Cookie cutter builds =/= diverse gameplay. I’ll say it again since you keep missing the point. Diversity doesn’t exist in this game in PVE (yes I left out the PVE part) until they fixit here’s a suggestion.

They put these XIII traits into the game to improve diversity and all they did was create a new set of cookie cutter builds but I guess you missed that part too somehow hmmm. The beta actually was the best combat that the engineer has ever had. We weren’t restricted because whiners in PVP couldn’t learn to play their class and then had that spill over into PVE over and over and ad nauseum over again just like in every other title but I guess you’d call that innovation right? The repeat of a meme and then the denial that it exists seems to permeate this entire internet, it’s amazing to me that people like you don’t walk into doors.

The float XIII suggestion is only 1 suggestion, but feel free to check out the archive of the entire list of suggestions they threw out the window to keep this game in beta perpetually, though I’m sure you’ll call that some other word that doesn’t fit as well.

Nope, that won’t fix PvE.

To fix PvE you need more diverse mobs that require different approches to counter. Seeing as all mobs in PvE need the exact same treatment, everyone plays the same builds.

Magumma wastes is a desert.

Yea, I bet you’re confused now.

I wish they took a look at all the new GM traits and improved their original implementation.

BrunoBRS.5178:

really? i imagined that a 10s interrupt would be good enough. i mean, people were hyping it back when it was shown the first time.

i guess being able to put autoattacks on cooldown spoiled people.

I was one of the people hyping it, but then you figure out that Harmonious Mantras and Chaotic Interruption is just a better combination.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I wouldn’t call a system of caveats and costs a solution as much as a beast with a host of different problems than the one we are facing. I’ve heard this debate in many different forms, from other MMOs to Yugioh and other card games, and there are multiple sides to it.

First and foremost is that caveats aren’t an instant resolution to stale gameplay. Diversity is from creativity, and diverse gameplay can exist in a system of only positives. Adding detriments to abilities will just add another layer of imbalances and flaws to the system, unless it was done just right.

Currently, there are several factors that determine the overall usefulness of a skill:

*Cooldown Time
*Activation Time
*Aftercast
*Range
*Radius
*Target Limit
*Number of effects
*Type of effects
*Potency of effects
*Overall pool of support for that ability
*Activation Condition (equipment only)

To these ends alone, there is a lot of depth that can go into designing any one skill without tacking on negative effects or additional costs. I personally like a system of all positives, mostly because my entire experience with negatives is trying to minimize or reverse them, and resource pools resort in spamming efficiency based techniques and periods of inactivity in the heat of a battle.

Has GW2 made the best of this system? Undoubtedly no. GW2 is currently ruled over by procs, hard CC, paper/rock/scissors gameplay, overly large AoEs, and long invulnerability periods. The balance is in shambles due to widely disproportionate potency and ease of use in abilities. But, by proper usage of the above factors, as well as a wide diversity of effects, it is easily in the realm of possibility to make a game that works in positives.

It’s possible to make a game that works in positives alone but that game wouldn’t be a PvP game.
Like you said, there is already a good amount of caveats within the current system of things but what we’re finding is that these side-effects aren’t really up to par. They need to be fine tuned, added to, changed, and there are some things that are just begging for an additional effects to make them useful (Just take a look at the example I gave in my original post).

I’m not asking them to go around adding caveats to everything like a mad cowboy shooting off his guns in a saloon. I’m asking that they re-evaluate their skills and traits, runes and sigils to see what would be made more balanced/useful by introducing caveats to them.

The thing I noticed about GW2 and I think they mentioned this at some point, is that, they are going for a very free-handed skill interaction system. What this means is, they don’t want to dictate the way you combine skills like they did in GW1. Where most builds dictated the order in which you pressed buttons.
Most of the fights were not reactionary, just press buttons in a sequence and kite whilst the Monk does the real reactionary combat.

I can say they successfully side-stepped that problem and created a game that is more free form in it’s execution. For Example, the way a necro could perform a condi combo that can render the use of signet of spite extinct but not very many necros perform that combo because the skill descriptions don’t allude to that sort of use.

Now they just have to fine tune that execution with better traits and more varied interactions that will serve to not only improve the build diversity but also limit OP builds.

Just think, what if Rune of Balthazar reduced your healing by 10% whilst giving you the benefit of causing burning when you heal. One way around that would be having your teammate make up for that loss in healing using Aquatic Benevolence (Aquatic Benevolence and Rune of the Monk can also counter poison without cleansing it directly).
Or another more apt example would be, Necros and burning, just have Guardians use Virtue of Justice or get a Ranger to bring sun spirit or get an engineer to apply burning and the Necro could just epidemic that.
Or what if when you take Reaper’s Protection, it also has the caveat of removing 10% of your Deathshroud every time you feared someone.

So many things they are doing/could do. They just need open their eyes and see.

Personally I hate the fact that all the new traits are in the grandmaster line, especially since a lot of them don’t even fit there.

Your “floating” idea, I’m afraid, won’t solve the problem of diversity. It may solve the problem of accessibility but not build diversity.

If they want more build diversity, they need better traits. Or better skills, Or better skill interactions or all of the above.

xbutcherx.3861:

Love people solutions post, they are so unbalanced and for OP own benefit, get over it.

What would you have happen with the Warrior then?

The only new build that will come out of this is a one gadget, one turret, one kit build/One Gadget, one turret, one elixir.

And to be honest, that was already possible. The only thing the update will add is improvements to it’s speed/damage.

DeceiverX.8361:

It’s not just longbow. It’s Hambow in general. Warrior misses earthshaker due to a really well-timed dodge? Well, better just wait 8s and try again without actually needing to land other hits or build up the resource.

Good thing about Earthshaker is that it’s AoE and AoE has a higher chance of hitting when everyone isn’t paying attention. Not including undodging pets and ai. Turret Engies and Minion Master Necros just give them more ammo.

Jagstang.6912:

RIP warriors. Might as well delete the class now since it’ll be useless. What are we gonna do when our eviscerates miss? FML

Get good.

“Unintended functionality”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-changes-in-the-september-2014-feature-pack/

Elementalist

The elementalist’s cantrips are popular in all parts of the game, and in the interest of promoting build diversity, we’ll be using the feature pack as an opportunity to work on other types of utility skills. For example, the fire and air storms from the Glyph of Storms will now apply conditions of their own. In addition, we’ll rework some of the new grandmaster traits that currently don’t have enough of a payoff or are too difficult to use. Finally, we’ll be addressing the Tornado and Fiery Greatsword elite skills; we’ll make some usability improvements and tone down some of their unintended functionality.

Zefrost.3425:

Dirame.8521:

Engie meta isn’t changing in any way unless the changes that are coming are greater than what has been shown to us.

I don’t really agree with this. With the change to “Analyze” now applying revealed, static discharge engineer may become the best roaming class in WvW over thief. Static discharge engineer offers a lot more than a berserker thief does (tool kit, rocket boots, utility goggles, personal battering ram is getting damage boost and is a launch) and now he can also apply revealed. Power wrench is getting buffed too and a lot of people already took that in static discharge build, so it’s just more damage for them now.

For PvP, I would think that engineer could also rival thief or elementalist as the burst roaming class. Rangers might also be able to fill this role with the buffs they’re getting.

Inherent Stealth, Mobility and the ability to instantly position yourself right next to your target surpasses anything the Engineer can do.

Rangers have a greater chance of coming into the meta due to their Ranged Burst. Launch PBR is only 900 range, not even close to what Rangers will be able to do at 1500 range.

My thoughts on this is to wait and see how much Adrenaline you can gain with the combination of the new Signet of Rage and passive adrenaline traits.

Adrenaline might be a problem but we can’t decide that yet

Your thoughts on the Longbow are exactly what I suggested in my recent video about the changes. But with no one explaining how things work with the Longbow, all I can assume is that it still functions the way it’s always functioned.

Engie meta isn’t changing in any way unless the changes that are coming are greater than what has been shown to us.

I think we should wait for after this week to decide whether GW2 PvP is going down the right track. Feature packs being what they are.

tigirius.9014:

But you see we’ve written about this multiple times and it still falls on deaf ears.

Doesn’t mean we should stop talking about it.

It’s something that needs to be developed and worked on to extend the variety of builds in the Engineers kitten nal.

My builds used to use both the Explosives line and the Firearms line, but the change to Incendiary Powder and Kit Refinement has forced me to spread my traits out further into the Alchemy line for sustainability and further into the explosives to get Incendiary powder.

BobbyT.7192:

Dirame.8521:

Harper.4173:

Through my skill and ability I managed to bring down the Berserker and allow my party to res in order to take the other boss down and finish the instance.

It was one of the most fun experiences I’ve had in the game – because even though 80% of my party was dead the game didn’t punish me for their mistakes and it made a difference.

The cool thing about what we’re asking for is that, it doesn’t really over-complicate things.

What I’d like to see does not have to be to the level that GW1 did it. It just has to incorporated in places that need it. Like the new Adrenaline bar. The use of adrenaline when you miss an attack is not hard to understand for a casual player but it wasn’t there to begin with. These are the kinds of things that need to be modified so that the game can grow.

The bad thing about making your game too shallow is that the really good players will get bored or frustrated with the game really early. This may end up in your game falling by the wayside because the people everyone aspired to beat, end up leaving.

People will either leave because it’s too complicate, or leave if its not complicated enough, in the end it who ever makes the company more money that gets most of the attention. Can’t really blame anet for going where the money is (i’m sure people will though)

Anet just needs to be constantly aware that they walk a fine line between having their game be stale when a person has reached a cap in build diversity and having their game be bloated to the point where they can’t balance it anymore. Right now I think they don’t have have to worry about the initial part and keep one eye on the latter part.

Arghore.8340:

Tnx Harper for that elaborate formulation of my objective analysis of GW2, this gives me the opportunity to formulate a ;tldr for you (based upon how I view GW2 combat when i have a morning grudge):

GW2 combat system is about as interesting as whack a mole with two alternating moles linked together (aka. whack one the other comes up), it has counter play on the level of rock/paper/scissors, with an imbalance to rock beating everything. And the reward system is about as straight forward as ‘draw a string’. (sorry I could not find a traveling fun park equivalent to ‘rock/paper/scissors’).

Actually, and this is something I can still get worked up about, the statement that GW2 wasn’t: ‘Swing your sword, Swing it again’; is so the opposite that I can’t be reminded of that statement without popping a vane in my forehead.

GW1 was a good game with a decent to mediocre story, with period gfx, and no Z axis. GW2 is a good LOOKING game, with a decent to mediocre story, with stunning GFX and an Z axis. (hope you notice how gameplay isn’t even in the GW2 line-up)

Add. Though I will say that GW1 wasn’t without it’s balance problems, f/e Insidious Parasite as a one skill option against anything melee (mainly Sins). And ohboy, all the ‘balance’ horror we went through in GW1. The gameplay could be much more interesting though (when you got to the PvP), although PvE was reduced to the trinity ‘whack a mole’ standard of the time, with a few locations where other strategies prevailed. Still though, within a profession and role there were still a couple viable variants…

Add2. and I will say that the combo skill mechanics are still interesting and fresh! Guess GW2 combat ‘has that’…

There, glad I got that off my chest… I couldn’t have done it without you Harper! As my objective non grudged mind sees things exactly as you do. Still though, I am only human and do come with emotions (at times).

This is my rage in a nutshell. I keep telling myself that it took GW1 at least 1 expansion to get things on the right track. No one liked Prophecies all that much.

Hotel lobby is actually better because it removes the crowd and the smell and you know that everyone there is there for you. And it might also be cheaper.

Why would you want them to go into a noisy crowded place that you have to queue in for? It’s like you hate good things.

Harper.4173:

Through my skill and ability I managed to bring down the Berserker and allow my party to res in order to take the other boss down and finish the instance.

It was one of the most fun experiences I’ve had in the game – because even though 80% of my party was dead the game didn’t punish me for their mistakes and it made a difference.

The cool thing about what we’re asking for is that, it doesn’t really over-complicate things.

What I’d like to see does not have to be to the level that GW1 did it. It just has to incorporated in places that need it. Like the new Adrenaline bar. The use of adrenaline when you miss an attack is not hard to understand for a casual player but it wasn’t there to begin with. These are the kinds of things that need to be modified so that the game can grow.

The bad thing about making your game too shallow is that the really good players will get bored or frustrated with the game really early. This may end up in your game falling by the wayside because the people everyone aspired to beat, end up leaving.

Ithilwen.1529:

Mesmer is already skimming the surface of being non-viable. Neither of those invisibilities last for any substantial time. Both are already on longish cooldowns. If you Q.Q Mesmer…. you simply can’t play.

Mesmer wouldn’t be skimming anything if people would just let go of portal plays or just diversify their build set. Just look at Countless for example. Dude can deal with condis, use portal AND has adequate direct damage and isn’t using shatter mesmer.

Probably just joking with you because there’s no build called the bio engineer in GW2. But he might mean condition engie which is Bomb kit, Elixir Gun and grenades.

MonMalthias.4763:

So we could make the reaping mechanic:

• Scale with number of remaining seconds of condition applied. This rewards early reaping for more damage, and prevents reaping late to “double dip” damage.
  • It is therefore a designed-in trade-off for the reaping mechanic as neither choice of reaping early for more frontloaded damage or letting it tick out for more total damage is an apex choice.

I don’t think double dipping damage is something that should be shied away from. In fact, as you mention later in your post, cast time, animation, blind, dodge etc Can all factor in and waiting for that double dip can be a major risk you’re choosing to take. I think it’s a choice that a player would be grateful to have.

Blow them up early or blow them up late.

All I know is, everything is speculation until proven with practice.

Dual.8953:

Interesting idea. It could really help with this problem GW2 has with Apex choices.
I remember my W/N back in GW1. Drunken Blow + Plague Touch was fun.

Or Headbutt, Plague touch.

MonMalthias.4763:

As an introductory idea, Necro’s Feast of Corruption could receive even greater LF and damage reward; same as with Necro Staff Necrotic Grasp .

Engineer could receive the same reaping through Acidic Elixirs ; Evasive Powder Keg ; Concussion Bomb ; and Jump Shot .

Other classes could have various skills and utilities and traits updated with the new Reap Mechanic – or even have new skills created – to take advantage of the mechanic.

It would be pretty funny to play against. It would be a race to get rid of your conditions before you got bursted down.

CureForLiving.5360:

Not necessarily, most likely just ANet deciding that reusing models is easier than creating new ones.

Nah, the way they introduced him, they were definitely setting it up to be a big reveal. They know how significant the similarities are and they deliberately had that flapping wings thing to keep you wondering “WTF is that?” and then when you see it, you go “OH SNAP! It’s the same thing I fought in the sylvari dream!”

Lol, no.

Harper.4173:

Dirame.8521:

Azrael.4960:

Although it is appreciable that a lot of people think about these things, what is overlooked here is that the zerk gear mentality isn’t a GW2 community demand. It’s a community response to what is missing; solid mob AI that synergise themselves appropriately to produce the sorts of encounters that require mixed or more defensive gear. Rather than nerfing the gear, the AI needs improving (difficult ask, but it is what it is) to the point that penalises reliance on zerk gear. This isn’t to say, “moar mob hp!”, but better mob mechanics.

This is literally what I’ve been saying since forever. Make dungeon mobs act like mobs in GW1 with player skills and dodge mechanics.

And watch as the casual masses flood the forums with complaints and take their money from the gem store elsewhere.

There’s a reason this game is pretty easy mode when it comes to content and that reason is they don’t want to alienate players that might not be so hardcore or invested to really improve themselves and master difficult content but who do invest regularly in gems on the gem store.

You can’t have your cake and eat it.

The best they can do is add more hardcore content on top of the casual-oriented content to try to keep the hardcore players happy too.

But they don’t really care about their hardcore-oriented players that much and there have been plenty of examples of that – I’ll just mention one :

I’ll say the reason they haven’t done it is because it would take a long time. I’m pretty sure they don’t like stacking either.

I am a man for goodness sakes! and men do not feels!

Azrael.4960:

Although it is appreciable that a lot of people think about these things, what is overlooked here is that the zerk gear mentality isn’t a GW2 community demand. It’s a community response to what is missing; solid mob AI that synergise themselves appropriately to produce the sorts of encounters that require mixed or more defensive gear. Rather than nerfing the gear, the AI needs improving (difficult ask, but it is what it is) to the point that penalises reliance on zerk gear. This isn’t to say, “moar mob hp!”, but better mob mechanics.

This is literally what I’ve been saying since forever. Make dungeon mobs act like mobs in GW1 with player skills and dodge mechanics.

Wolf.5816:

I always wished for Modified Ammunition to: “Increase your damage by 2% for each condition on your target. Increases damage by an additional 2% when wielding a Pistol in your off hand.”

Well Malthias and I agree that a direct boost in damage isn’t adequate to get people to use that trait. A more functionality driven change would really give Modified Ammunition the attributes it need to drive people towards it.

In other words, new builds that don’t require explosives.

Don’t tell us, tell them. Directly! Email someone when you sign up or something.

Drafigo.4690:

What are you guys talking about. Seems the link isn’t working maybe Anet changed their minds!

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-the-guild-wars-2-global-tournament-series/

This is such a good LS that I think Anet should let anyone who logs into to GW2 again, have it.
Or they could just bundle it with the full game as a promotion. Yea… they’ll probably do that.

I think it should work like it currently does but also set you alight whilst cleansing conditions on yourself like you said. And when you toss Zealot’s fire at someone, it removes the burning you have as well. I’m not entirely sure about the ally cleansing though because Cleansing Flame already does that but sounds interesting regardless.

In every MMO, it rarely is about the player character. It’s either about a small group of people, a nation or nations. Sometimes about an individual but rarely about your character because it’s very hard to write for that sort of thing.

That’s not to say they can’t make your character important, which they’ve clearly done.

Mordy has found where the Baby dragon is and is closing in on it. That’s what I gathered from the vision now that I’ve watched it again.

Or

He’s found a way to unlock the Bloodstones.

I’ll need to watch it again to get the full picture but it seems like Mordy doesn’t like the pillars of light and we kinda have to get past his minions to get to it. Also Bloodstones and time wimey wibbly wobbly stuff.

Glint’s Baby is the chosen one.