Guild Wars 2

Just a thought: You think we’d be able to go with a Time Catches Up build comp and run, let’s say, Mirror Images, Staff, and Shield? The idea would be doing a simple Mirror Images>Phase Retreat>Mind Wrack combo. Of course, illusions aren’t very well made to survive loads of AoE, but if we have 10-15 mesmers and very fast illusions, it’s possible we can load up the AoE target limit and get the majority of the clones through for a decent burst.

All valid points. I’ve actually found it quite useful. Well, I thought it would have been worse, but it’s quite decent in team fights.

It is not the best revive nor does it have the most gracious of cooldowns, thus how about simply making it faster to cast so that we might revive with greater reliability?

I’m very pleased with these changes. Seize the Moment will become useful now with on-demand quickness.

Can somebody explain the iAvenger change to me, though? I’m slightly confused by the description. Has it’s radius increased?

How many mantras? If it’s Mantra of Distraction then it’s just Lockdown.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Xyonon.3987:

Yea I find it confusing too. I’d be more logical if it would reset everything. But in terms of balance, it’s already good enough this way.

That door also swings both ways, unfortunately. You’d end up losing illusions, buffs, and boons as well, meaning the only value of f5 would be the damage you dealt, which is extremely boring and limiting.

Strength would be, though, that we could also set up for future boons after the Shift.

Weakness, though, is that we’d have to reset the conditions again, and right now you can save health by letting conditions tick off during the Split.

More so, we need to buff some of the Core specs rather than the Elites.

Oh~ I might play around with this idea of using Fury+Danger Time increase crit chance instead of precision. Nice ideas~

I don’t think Chrono needs Stability. We have some on BD in Chaos line, so that’s that.

You can build around Distortion share, though, and Alacrity share.

On that note, we really need the Healing Prism fixed. Couldn’t they put, I don’t know, a 2s CD on it instead?

I was going to criticizes it only being 5 seconds, then saw it had no ICD. I’m ok with that.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Dondagora.9645:

Gav.1425:

StM >> Chro-phan in pvp. Think of the F4 stomps, blind stomps, or having quick as soon as you F5.

Distortion and Blind stomps aren’t in need of quickness, however much it may help. The only benefit is for Continuum to blast off more skills before the reset.

Chronophantasm, however, is more powerful for both phantasm and shatter specs as a whole, more universally useful to keep illusion uptime high.

I’m not denying StM can be useful, but I fail to see it being better than Chronophantasm.

Chronophantasm is more dps, more utility, more shatter, which is more good.

Where quickness comes into play for Mesmers is to increase cast times, or to a larger extent channels (so yes, stomps). So you can potentially cycle through a chain of phant summons and skill bursts which theoretically can make a difference. The only thing is, you won’t notice a difference going without.

Now, if we had something like warrior burst skills (Eviscerate, or Killshot) it’d make a noticeable difference.. As it stands our burst skill is already insta cast. So what’s the point?

Quickstomps.

See, I was actually planning on creating a build around Seize the Moment based on Quickrezzing, but due to the lack of on-demand quickness which I thought it provided it just didn’t work out.

As I’ve said, let it give Quickness on shattering the mesmer and I think the trait would do much better.

Gav.1425:

StM >> Chro-phan in pvp. Think of the F4 stomps, blind stomps, or having quick as soon as you F5.

Distortion and Blind stomps aren’t in need of quickness, however much it may help. The only benefit is for Continuum to blast off more skills before the reset.

Chronophantasm, however, is more powerful for both phantasm and shatter specs as a whole, more universally useful to keep illusion uptime high.

I’m not denying StM can be useful, but I fail to see it being better than Chronophantasm.

Quadox.7834:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Quadox.7834:

think it might become way too strong with this change, but it would be funnnnn

It’s long been noted that quickness isn’t as strong on mes as on other classes, so I hardly think an extra second would tip it into OP territory at all.
And since it’s already weaker than chronophantasma, it’s more likely to just make it actually competitive.

its stronger than chronophantasma for pvp

Not really, Chronophantasma gives a lot more to Phantasm builds by giving them decent means of maintaining them while also allowing some leeway to use shatter skills. Quickness, however, is just a short-duration speed-up which is only very useful in specific scenarios.

Though, I’ll admit I may not be well informed. In what way is Seize the Moment currently stronger than Chronophantasma?

Really loved this game, no idea why they wouldn’t include it…

Indeed, it is a GM, but unless it gives you that on-demand quickness via shattering yourself it isn’t truly build-defining.

Indeed, the no quickness if no illusion thing really killed it for me. Hope they change this.

Nah, it’s ok normally because of Alacrity. 2 Avengers means Alacrity for everyone~

Ross Biddle.2367:

Dondagora.9645:

Ok, before people come here, just don’t. This guy’s somehow complaining about Chrono by saying Dragonhunter sucks. Don’t know why that’s even relevant, but whatever. Just don’t acknowledge this thread. Do not post. There is literally no merit in taking this any further.

Can we post the Dragonhunter is Balanced thread at least?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Dragon-Hunter-Is-Balanced/first

Can’t we all call this guy a newb too?

Ok… if you really want to~

Ok, before people come here, just don’t. This guy’s somehow complaining about Chrono by saying Dragonhunter sucks. Don’t know why that’s even relevant, but whatever. Just don’t acknowledge this thread. Do not post. There is literally no merit in taking this any further.

vanderwolf.7084:

the only reason I’ll say probably no is simply because Demons are fully sentient beings.

they might be able to manifest a demon-like entity, but not an actual demon.

Mesmers are known for both reality and mind magic.

I say, Mesmers are likely able to do lots of things that push the bounds of rationality. That is, after all, the reason the Mesmer Collective exists, to protect secret mesmeric spells from public knowledge. I say, constructing demons, even developing sentience, is likely within a Mesmer’s capabilities if they have the knowledge and experience.

There’s now an NPC named “Vigil Tactician[Specialization Achievement Repair]” that you can go to in Heart of the Mist.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Don’t you sass me! The Condi build was total guesswork. xD

/edits

… Uh.. Can one of yall Condi players build-edit me a condi build? Can’t from phone.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAreWnsICNqhVoBOoBcrhlZjqMAqtkpeX/1hFd4ipjD-TJRHwA72fAZZABnCAAPBAA

maybe? This is adapted from my usual build, so unsure how others might do it, though we can do away with shield and Guardian Runes to go classic torch since stealth might be more reassuring, unless you want to go with Precog instead of Decoy. Over all, an Ok condi build right here for your analysis.

Edit: As Silvery said, I’d rather just use Duel/Chaos/Illusions for condi since Chrono isn’t really made for it. It’s just simpler for the end goal.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Jeez.. Even the tempest runes suck!

Those Herald Runes look promising though.

… What the eff are concentration and expertise?

Concentration: Boon Duration stat

Expertise: Condition Duration stat

Indeed. I don’t play Necro, but I enjoyed the depth of playing with mechanics instead of setting hard limits like this. A shame.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Mwahahahaha!!! PvP Support Mesmer rejoice!

This is glorious… Especially for Well of Action (3s Quickness on final pulse)

You see Minstrel stats yet? Think you’ll be very pleased.

Barely a nerf and people QQ’ing like this already?

Chaos~ Just wondering if you’re still updating Lyssa’s Grimoire~?

First, I believe.

More frequent daze for interrupt? Phantasm hits faster?

Ah, on that same note, I’ll probably be running this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAseWnsIClqh1fCOoBEgilZjqMAutcr+WD2hFdJKuiA-T1REABKoE8o9HlfB/EAwR9HHOFApoPAAzfkCYSxWA-w

Condi-Bunker Chrono made to vanguard against zergs, using the 4.5 second continuous block of ours to apply mass amounts of blind/confusion/burn[Ineptitude+Guardian Runes] along with providing a good amount of reflection Evasive Mirror. Will be humorous in larger numbers.

’k, transferring now, then~

Any more insight on builds or strategy now that we’ve gotten a good taste of what the Chronomancer offers?

YO! This still on in FA, right?

Bump~

Anyone want to start an illegal back-alley moa-fighting ring?

Get a couple mesmers and we Humiliate our bets as they fight.

LordMazdamundi.2147:

wow why was the 2nd ‘shattering’ censored

This

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Fay.2357:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Wait.. Why am I a troll? O.o

Is a troll just.. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you? Cuz usually big brother Ross rolls in and does all the trolling anyone ever needs.

.. Can we get this thread locked yet?

(Also, Ross, I hate you. -_-)

Naw, not so much you tho some stuff you have said is pretty……….

Aka yes, stuff that doesn’t agree with you (read: anything involving reason and logic) is trolly.

Sometimes a man gets a beating and just doesn’t want to get beat no more (read: also see Chaos A).

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL this is the exact reason I stopped the discussion. Cause apparently stopping a discussion is “getting beat”

Well, winning a discussion is subjective, so however one chooses to interpret really.

MISTRUST (AoE 2x 6s Confusion on Interrupt)
It competes against DE, which just is not a fair fight. Needs some sort of buff to be GM viable.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Fay.2357:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Ross Biddle.2367:

So its time for another summary.

Frenchfry’s beef pretty much boils down to-

• “I want more counterplay to CS”

Ignoring, despite it having been pointed out, that there are numerous counters. The question thus becomes “How much more?” Though it’s not been asked/answered, the preemptive argument tacked on to the previously stated “I want more counterplay” is-

• “I don’t want to see mesmer butchered into oblivion. Hell, have some more buffs if you want, on me!”

So in exchange for playing a high risk, glass, high damage based build that can truly utilize the CC effect of CS under MoD, we can have…. more damage? More blinks? More evades? What I want to know is, what good is more of any of this in a high risk build where the landing of your burst is everything? And not just your role, but your very survival depends on your ability to land that burst to apply pressure. Failure to do so means you’re at a severe disadvantage.

More over, MoD + CS is hardly just an offensive tool. It can be used simply to create breathing room (get that thief off your back for a second to pop a heal), or to stop someone getting away (stun into iLeap imob), no damage necessary. The fact you think all MoD + CS charges are spent on GS bursts only further cements the ignorance of the realities within actual gameplay you’ve continued throughout this discussion. If I had a dollar for every MoD charge I’ve had to burn saving a downed allie, or getting a GS warrior off my back, Id buy Bill Gates.

And all this is still ignoring all the counterplay that is present in the game… -_-u

Like I said, you really undermined yourself early on in this discussion. You used CS early on after patch and haven’t touched it since. CS is a great trait, it has good synergy with MoD, and even better in skilled hands with MA or PB. But given the rest of Mesmers features as they currently stand, it’s hardly some one shot, CS/MoD wins all OP powerhouse that requires changing, or at least changing in any way which you’ve suggested thus far.

And I’m sure there is plenty of ways you could buff mesmer.

Apparently not, they’ve already nerfed most of the options available for buffing, somehow I don’t think they’re going to turn around and lay on buffs again…

You honestly don’t think there’s a way to buff mesmer?

Mesmers are used to a certain pattern: Weak→Buff→Double Nerf→/Repeat

So yeah, any ways they tried to buff mesmer were nearly immediately shot down with nerfs. There are ways to buff mesmer, sure, but it’d either be repeating the past or puts us in position once more to be nerfed back to oblivion because ANet doesn’t feel like doing some micro adjustments.

Also, once again, no “on-interrupt” for CS. Unsure if it has been explained again to you, but having two traits which do essentially the same thing isn’t ok.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Dondagora.9645:

On the topic of Chosen, there’s villagers called Chosen Villagers as NPC’s, which could just be part of the deception, but then again there are Captive Chosen. Either its part of the deception or that these people are truly what are called “Chosen”.

I would argue this was part of ArenaNet’s deception towards the players. Take note that there isn’t a single NPC called “Chosen” after the White Mantle are revealed to be evil (e.g., end of Bloodstone Fen). In lore, most Chosen that were rescued joined the Shining Blade but there are no “Shining Blade Chosen” NPCs nor are there exceptionally powerful magic users amongst the Shining Blade.

The only “Chosen” we meet later on are called by name – such as Jacob Salinger – or are called “Seal Guards”. Note that each and every one of these “Chosen” are dead and we’re seeing their ghosts that were trapped in soul batteries.

Dondagora.9645:

Still on the topic of the title “Chosen”, there’s Jadoth who is called “chosen of Abaddon”, first of the Margonites, followers who received Abaddon’s magic. Might not be relevant, but these Margonites did survive through the Domain of Torment for hundreds of years despite having absorbed the energies to the point of becoming demons. Though, that could be another adaptation of human ascension. Might also not be related, but whatever.

Different things that use the same term. Take note that “chosen of Abaddon” is lowercase. This is just a case of ArenaNet using a common word as a title for a unique thing – as opposed to using “in the ancient fictional tongue” technique that would result in them being called, idk, The Kosan.

Dondagora.9645:

Theory adaptation: Mursaat and Enchanted both stem from the common ancestor of Humanity in the same way that Margonites and Exalted do. The processes may have been different, but they both “Ascended” from their mortal forms via magic.

Enchanted, Margonites, and Exalted are not fleshy anymore. They’re all ethereal.

Furthermore, that doesn’t explain the physical differences between mursaat and humans.

Dondagora.9645:

Some are saying that Mursaat are Tyrian natives, but I see no such text specifying that, only that they predate humanity coming over [correct me if I’m wrong] so no hole so far. Forgotten had created Enchanted [the empty moving armor] so it is likely that they are adapted from Exalted, or possibly the first attempt at Exalted.

Technically not wrong, but technically not right either. There’s nothing that specifically says “they were born on Tyria” but if they weren’t then chances are that such would be brought up because it’s rather significant – just like how it’s mentioned the Forgotten are not native to Tyria, or humans are not.

If we work on the premise that mursaat are not native to Tyria, then we might as well go and presume all races aren’t. Until told otherwise, it’s safer to assume that biologically different races are not non-natives.

The physical difference between Mursaat and Humans can come down to how Margonites and Exalted are pretty different from Humans despite being related. Note, I am not saying that Mursaat are human anymore, just that they were human at some point in their history, same as Exalted and Margonites.

The idea of “Chosen” can be argued one way or the other, it’s all a matter of interpreting the Mantle’s actions, which is tricky. If all they were looking for with the Eye of Janthir is the potential, we could call those with the potential to gain True Sight “Chosen” for the sake of argument.

As for my bringing up the Margonites, I just thought it interesting how mere humans could take in the energy in the Domain of Torment to the extent of becoming such powerful demons, and then their own attempts at ascension.

To the point that there’s nothing explicitly saying that the Mursaat are foreign to Tyria, I’d say that’s true. However they are the only ones that have the capability to travel through the Mists except, perhaps, the Human Gods and possibly the Forgotten, though the latter has never been witnessed to and actually predate the mythology stating that they had come from the Mists so it is questionable. Still, the Forgotten are shown to have a connection to the Human Gods for whatever reason, meaning the connection between these two mist travelers is strong… Sorry, that was a ramble. Basically nothing saying for or against on the Mursaat’s origin, but the fact that they have the capability, more than any other race, to travel the Mists puts their origins in suspect.

On the topic of Chosen, there’s villagers called Chosen Villagers as NPC’s, which could just be part of the deception, but then again there are Captive Chosen. Either its part of the deception or that these people are truly what are called “Chosen”.

Still on the topic of the title “Chosen”, there’s Jadoth who is called “chosen of Abaddon”, first of the Margonites, followers who received Abaddon’s magic. Might not be relevant, but these Margonites did survive through the Domain of Torment for hundreds of years despite having absorbed the energies to the point of becoming demons. Though, that could be another adaptation of human ascension. Might also not be related, but whatever.

Theory adaptation: Mursaat and Enchanted both stem from the common ancestor of Humanity in the same way that Margonites and Exalted do. The processes may have been different, but they both “Ascended” from their mortal forms via magic.

Some are saying that Mursaat are Tyrian natives, but I see no such text specifying that, only that they predate humanity coming over [correct me if I’m wrong] so no hole so far. Forgotten had created Enchanted [the empty moving armor] so it is likely that they are adapted from Exalted, or possibly the first attempt at Exalted.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Xaylin.1860:

Embolism.8106:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Silverkey.2078:

I saw somewhere a suggestion to simply remove the trait and instead “your control effects remove an additional stability” which I think made sense.

I’d never willfully use a control effect to remove a stack of stability -_-u

I want the control effect. If I could remove the stability it’d be in some other way prior to using my CC.

That actually sounds pretty strong with Diversion. Fits Mesmer better than Revenant anyway IMO.

What’s the point of it, though? We already got Shattered Concentration. Yes, you could use the new CS without shatters but in the end it will most likely not add much to Mesmer gameplay.

While CS should be changed I still got to say: Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.

And don’t forget it ruining Mental Anguish, since you’d never take anything other than Power Block ever again.

If you take mantra of distraction your going to take power block anyway. With or without the change to CS.

“Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.”

I fail to see how this is reason not to make the change. So if you go lockdown it isn’t as useful. The same goes for shatter and condition damage builds.

Let me reiterate why it’s dumb: It will give us two traits which do the same thing under the same conditions. That is not ok. It will not, under any circumstance, be ok. You cannot overlap the functionality of two traits that much. Because that is just stupid, I don’t want to spend the time listing off all the reasons why having two traits which do the same kitten thing is dumb.

Now, anything except making it “on-interrupt” for CS? Go for it, I don’t care.

CI cannot do the same thing as CS. This does not work for the profession, the balance, or the game. I trust the devs to already understand that already. So I won’t waste any more time on this, I’m just letting you know, it will not happen because it is a bad idea, straight up.

I see~

But, a question: Chosen were indicated in the Prophesy, yes, but the Mursaat killed multiple Chosen. What is the difference between the Chosen and the non-Chosen which made the Mursaat wish to kill some but not all humans? Wouldn’t this mean that Chosen are a subcategory of humans?

Humans. They’ve been a central part of GW from the beginning and have been put out of the spot light for quite a while, making us forget about what makes them S.P.E.C.I.A.L.

Firstly, let us remember the defining aspects of humanity:

• Humanity came to Tyria from somewhere else, brought by the Six Gods
• Some Humans are “Chosen”, which allows various uses
• Humans were chosen by Glint over Dwarves and Forgotten, for some reason, to become Exalted

Now, onto the next topic: “Chosen”

• Chosen, for some reason, can be ritually killed to become Soul Batteries
• Chosen, for some reason, can Ascend to gain a dimensional sight to see Mursaat

And now, Exalted:

• Sub-immortal beings of magic created[?] by Glint
• Came into being pre-GW1
• Hibernated[?] and in hiding until the Elder Dragon rise
• Similar in appearance to Mursaat

Now, Mursaat:

• Multidimensional beings that can travel the Mists
• Hidden to the naked eye except for the Chosen
• Magical beings, only magic users
• Spectral Agony, powerful and lethal offense
• Left world last Elder Dragon rise, pre-Humanity
• Came back for the Flameseeker Prophecy post-Humanity
• Destined by Glint’s prophesy to be wiped out by a Chosen
• Had knowledge of how to use Chosen for Soul Batteries

So, here’s the theory: Humans and Mursaat were of the same ancestor, meaning they’re related. They existed in the Mists or some other dimension before the Mursaat up and left for Tyria for the first time, leaving their less-magical brethren in their home world. This can explain why Humans in particular have the capability to gain Mursaat-sight via Ascension.

My thoughts are that some humans are prone to having a very distinct and powerful magical potential.

In this, the Mursaat were originally humans who unlocked this potential to transform into what they are today. The Exalted went through a similar process, thus why they are so similar to Mursaat in appearance. Chosen are simply humans with this potential, the select few who Mursaat and Exalted.

tl;dr Humans and Mursaat were originally one race from another dimension, the Mursaat and Exalted stemming from the Chosen populace of Humanity.

Thoughts? Reasons why or why not? Suggestions on how to better structure this post?

Because mesmer.

Nerf CS how you like, but no “on-interrupt” on it. It overlaps too much with CI, and it’s just ridiculous to think that having two traits that do essentially the same thing exist on the same profession.

I feel like Mistrust should get 4 stacks, though. It’s a GM, shouldn’t it be defining our build?

Yup, I had similar set up which worked well.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAseWncfC1fiFqBeoBUrhlej6MFKhVzMAugMqeUb1XF-TJxHABPXGIn9HM4UAAwTAAA

Alternatively, Dolyak Runes, though I enjoy that little bit of extra burn with Echo of Memory.

Bug
asdfghjkl;sdfghjklsdfghjk

Shintei.9061:

Dondagora.9645:

Echo of Memory… Anyone see the humor here?

Echo…

of Memory…

Continuous Block…

Get it?

No.

Mimic, whose counterpart was Echo, was originally a skill which created an orb around you which you could use to absorb a projectile to release at a later time with Echo. However, after absorbing the projectile, Mimic would then block attacks for the duration of the channel whether it be range or melee.

Echo of Memory right now is essentially that lost tidbit of Mimic which we were upset about losing.

Echo of Memory… Anyone see the humor here?

Echo…

of Memory…

Continuous Block…

Get it?