Guild Wars 2

TBH: Battle Standard would be overpowered. This suggestion is not well thought.
Signet of Rage can stay like this, nothing has to change. The idea with movement-skills akka gap-closers should be in a trait actually, rather than on an ultimate. There are other classes who haven’t such game-changing elite too, like thief. A one time stun, 2 weak assistants who drop rather fast on an too high CD and a projectile reflector akka suicide-spin.

So again, not the ultimates are the problem of the warrior.

Gibe.8172:

We are going OT..

Btw, less talk more act! if you want to duel, pm me in game and i’ll just show you what i mean XD

I’ll call you mabye in 5 hours. I’ll roll dmg-guard so you have a chance at least.

RoRo.8270:

I would have preferred the alliance system that guild wars 1 had. I have been harassed many times over representing.

In terms of damage, burning would have been enough to fullfill their collection of conditions they have access to. Also the problem with necro was his survivability and defense/stun-breakers in general. His damage before patch was allrdy fine.
But that’s happening when developers try to balance a class, without an idea of its state.

They’re fine compared to other classes. The issue with the warrior has another origin.

Archaon.6245:

No honor for hotjoin (Just glory and it would be more than enough) seems fair enough to me to discourage farmers…you can even delete all honor from previous hotjoin matches i don’t care

Agree. A-Net should have done a split from the beginning between hotjoin only for glory and tournament for less glory and rank-points to actually create a value in the rank-system

Gibe.8172:

No i don’t, it’s pretty different… With any other class depends on the skill of the player but still it’s an even match.

The problem is if you specc your build for 1v1’s you probably end being useless to the team or in general teamfights, where you get melted instantly.

Gibe.8172:

Warrior is a good, strong class.

The main problem is that people really don’t know how to use it and complain.

Said by a warrior since day 1.

Then tell me how pro-warriors like you, evade the cluster of AoE-Damage raining on you while still doing viable dmg in 130 range against evading opponents.
As I never saw you in competitive play, this must be your second account.

KarlaGrey.5903:

I daresay that in quality pvp, reward usually translates directly to winning (especially vs good opponents)/having fun with friends/guildmates/having fun theorycrafting builds and strategies, with neither of those sources of fun being mutually exclusive.
Or that is how it used to be in the good ol’ GW1.
Obviously, prestige and glory also played a big role in HA and gvg, and were part of the driving force that attracted new players, but without a rock-solid and quality basic pvp concept, it wouldn’t have lasted nearly as long as it did.

Absolutely, also the lack of teamsynergy between classes/utilities is not given. Sometimes I feel like fighting totally alone. Atleast there is Voip to remember me that this is a team-game.

Erebos.6741:

Okay, so what I’m hearing is that AoE is too prominent in play.

a) Is this due to strong effectiveness in contrast to other abilities?
b)Too prevalent in play due to ease of accessibility?
c) Both (a) and (b)?
d) ?

a+b+ conquest supports this type of dmg as other things do, like reviving. Also most AoE is ranged, this means it’s a much safer play.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Well, lack of rewards isn’t an issue when the pvp is actually quality.
Moreover, you’re looking at the pvp from a casual point of view, in which the points listed so far aplpy to a far lesser extent, because a casual player doesn’t contribute a lot to driving competition.

Depends how you’d define a reward. For me reward can be titles, emotes or trims. But about quality I have to agree though.
Still if you’d look at GW1 and guess if ppl would still play it if there was not something like Champion-titles, trims, observe-mode of top100, HoH-Winning-team pop-up in chat and other things. For me those things are all rewards, no material rewards but more of prestige-rewards.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Seriously. I logged on to my guardian the other day, and without changing his build from months ago, went to hotjoin and killed people just by chasing them around with the auto attack, and conditions weren’t that big of a problem.

Just as a tip. If you write a serious reply, never ever mention “Hotjoin” in it. Never!

Vayne.8563:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Vayne.8563:

Peetee.9406:

Without ‘those people’ you wouldn’t have ranks in WvW, spectator mode in sPvP or fractals.

Untrue, at least in the case of spectator mode. Guild Wars 1 had spectator mode and it was always intended to be in Guild Wars 2…it just didn’t get in at launch.

And I’m relatively sure Fractals was planned before launch too. Anet has said ascended gear was planned before launch and never made it into the game.

Not sure if the ranks in WvW were planned or not, there’s no way to know.

Untrue again, spectator mode was intended but without the pressure of the PvP-Forum it would have been introduced months later. Especially in the case of PvP those critical players are really needed. Also balanced changes for PvP are based on feedback (most of this feedback is written in a negative way).
I don’t know how it is in PvE as I’m not into it, but for PvP the critical players make the difference, not the agreeing ones.

You have no evidence that it would have been introduced months later, because it was announced before the game launched. You simply are saying you BELIEVE it got released early.

I’ve never seen evidence that Anet releases anything until they CHOOSE to release it. Because it’s always been planned, because it was mentioned before launch, because it existed in the previous incarnation of the game, I can’t see how you can prove that it came out sooner than it would have.

In fact, I think coming out when it did is pretty much when they thought it would likely come out.

They mentioned it in a SOTG, that’s why. They said they see the playerbase want this future the most so they put their focus on CA’s to be released asap.

Sirendor.1394:

Sorry but 15k achievement points is totally ridiculous.

Bro, you completely missed the point of a LEGENDARY weapon. 15k are pretty sure reasonable. One per year is actually fine. It looks to me like you’re one of those “2k- achievment-points-are-fine-for-a-legendary-dudes”, which don’t want to spend effort on expensive objects.

Taym.8326:

Why are they adding PvP rewards to achievement points, isn’t that like forcing PvP players to PvE? I mean I understand they maybe want to entice players from those sections of the game to showoff some of their “elite skillz” in the mists lobby but you are doing it in the opposite direction. You give a PvE rewards in PvP so it does not feel like that are wasting their time not gaining money/farming/instancing.

They did the same with CA’s allrdy. Why not with Achivement Points?

Uberkafros.5431:

Or maybe pve players don’t give a kitten about pvp just like most pure pvp players don’t give a kitten about pve.

Many good PvP players changed from PvP to PvE, because PvE was actually…funny and rewarding.

Vayne.8563:

Peetee.9406:

Without ‘those people’ you wouldn’t have ranks in WvW, spectator mode in sPvP or fractals.

Untrue, at least in the case of spectator mode. Guild Wars 1 had spectator mode and it was always intended to be in Guild Wars 2…it just didn’t get in at launch.

And I’m relatively sure Fractals was planned before launch too. Anet has said ascended gear was planned before launch and never made it into the game.

Not sure if the ranks in WvW were planned or not, there’s no way to know.

Untrue again, spectator mode was intended but without the pressure of the PvP-Forum it would have been introduced months later. Especially in the case of PvP those critical players are really needed. Also balanced changes for PvP are based on feedback (most of this feedback is written in a negative way).
I don’t know how it is in PvE as I’m not into it, but for PvP the critical players make the difference, not the agreeing ones.

Well, at the release of GW2 (and till today) the infrastructure and general content of PvE was/is pretty big especially compared to PvP. The PvP is still not complete or in an accurate state (this comes from a hardcore PvP-player). A big part of the playerbase left the game or changed to PvE, myself included. PvE offers much more diversity and is more rewarding.
A-Net realized they have to put a lot of effort into PvP to not let this game-mode die. So now they try to revive PvP, that’s why we see more updates for PvP than PvE.
No worry though, there will be enough content for PvE soon, but first they really need to get PvP on the right path, especially because they mentioned they wanna go into E-Sports.

That sounds pretty good for the future. I like that you plan more content for lvl 80, because there is big lack of it, also in terms of high-end areas and challenging dungeons (except Fractals).

The power of money…

I played Bunker-Guard and Bunker-Ele for a long time now (about 2.5k tournaments, r55) in the competitive scene in PvP. If you want you can contact me ingame, also I can show you some tricks etc. against other classes.
Regards

Good to hear things going forward. If still need help or something, feel free to contact me.

Allrdy discussed thousand of times. Influence of AoE-dmg, 130-ranged weapon issue and obvious animations are the core of it.

DPS Guardian can be viable. just noone plays it anymore, so ppl think it’s not viable.
There are some really good hybrid-dps-builds around with GS and meditiations.

TheLastBrohican.5376:

This is very close to what I run most tourneys – I find it deals exceptionally well with condi pressure. There’s a little wiggle room in the build in case you prefer 0/5/5/30/30 for the extra stability as well.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-7s-Fw;0NFk40J3wF-90;9;549TO;44;014A38-U-F7U;1ZF18ZF186gq

I would go for 0/0/10/30/30 instead of 0/5/5/30/30. An AoE blind is cool, but 1 condition-cleanse every 10 seconds is in the necro-meta pretty strong.

An endless list, but what drives me really crazy is that a tournament player gets nothing back for his uncountable hours of effort he puts in strats etc.
In the past we had the 3-round paid-tournaments, which would have suceeded if A-Net wouldn’t implement such an absurd entry-fee of 5 tickets per player.
So now we have the hotjoin farmers which gain better rewards for mindless farming than the competitive scene. Whoever created such a reward balance in PvP should change his job.

DevO.9854:

they would do it if they got worth while rewards.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Follidus.8027:

To be honest I think it’s an issue of something that’s easier to play, but not necessarily more effective to play. Playing builds/compositions that can be played by (essentially) spamming things (whether it’s power damage, condi damage, evades, extreme bunkering, or whatever) is going to be a lot easier to play. When this happens these builds/compositions seem to scream “overpowered” in lower tiers of play. You kind of see this in other games as well.

I also think there’s some merit to the issue of something being new that you’re just not used to fighting. We see this a lot with builds when they first become popular.

Follidus = Dead on.

Necro pre-patch was probably the highest skill floor class in the game with Engineer being the only debatably close second. When the patch hit the bar got lowered (probably by a bit too much considering the post-patch offensive capabilities). People saw that Necro got massive changes, so everyone wanted to test them out. This lead to multiple necros winding up in solo que comps and rolling over teams that they had no business beating, because the teams will ill prepared for that kind of condition overload. Once people saw dual necro comps rolling over teams the bandwagon jumpers and QQers took over, so you have this odd state where everyone is playing a necro when in game and in their spare time they come to the forums to cry for nerf. This is stupidity.

Necro could stand a tweak, but in skilled play it isn’t wildly out of balance. They don’t need a nerf hammer. There are counters that work.

For people saying that DPS is not viable: You are flat wrong. Most of the time when I see a multi-necro comp on my opponents’ team I will character swap specifically to DPS in order to have the upper hand, and it has worked. You have to run some different skill sets than you would have before the patch, and you have to invest a little time getting competent with the new build that you run as a counter, but it isn’t a big deal.

When the next patch hits they are going to tweak more things, and there will be more change to the meta. Hopefully they raise the skill floor for Necro without destroying the top end capabilities, but we’ll see.

It doesn’t have to do something with high skillfloor or not. Necro pre-patch had to be babysitted by other classes to work. This has nothing to do with high-play, you need just a setup to work around necro. That is the same with the warrior now. You can build up a setup around this class and it’s working. But the deficit is overlapping the posivite aspects of this.

MiM for eg. played a long time with warrior. They had brought a bunker-ele to effieciently heal the warrior up, while the warrior can sustain enough to do the damage. This works pretty well in static teamfights, but as soon as you have to split your team up, that’s a heavy disadvantage.
The necro had the same problem. Since the patch his survivability hasn’t changed, but the effectiveness of his dmg-output is overhelming and replaced infact the old placeholder named HGH.

Who the hell is not skipping capricorn allrdy?

Follidus.8027:

To be honest I think it’s an issue of something that’s easier to play, but not necessarily more effective to play. Playing builds/compositions that can be played by (essentially) spamming things (whether it’s power damage, condi damage, evades, extreme bunkering, or whatever) is going to be a lot easier to play. When this happens these builds/compositions seem to scream “overpowered” in lower tiers of play. You kind of see this in other games as well.

I also think there’s some merit to the issue of something being new that you’re just not used to fighting. We see this a lot with builds when they first become popular.

But I do think necros were tuned in the wrong way. They already had a lot of offensive capabilities, but they lacked mobility and defensive abilities (they needed teams to peel for them). Essentially what happened was engis would put out more pressure with all their condi spam (which at least I think is a little too much) while also having better mobility and self-sustainability. What happened with this patch is these roles essentially got reversed. At least this is how I see it, but I don’t main necro or engi. This is also coming from someone that thought every class was ‘viable’ before the patch, but it just comes down to building your team around certain builds/classes if you wanted to run them, as well as certain things being easier to play (but not necessarily more effective) than others.

I think fixing paralyzation sigils and removing burning from necros would put them in a pretty good spot.

Also, our team comp we’re trying to run is: bunker guard // shatter mes // 2 s/d eles // trap ranger. I think it can work well, but I would say as a team we’re far from playing it at it’s full potential. It’s just something that takes time.

well said.
why I never saw you in the SOTG?

Vex has a labrador?

Many ppl underestimate the dominance of AoE in this game, which is restricting the warrior completely. Giving warriors the option of more CC or dmg won’t solve the core issue of this problem.

It’s more that the concept of AoE is restricting the viability of the warrior, rather than the options of the class itself. Because Warrior in general is a well-doing class. PvE and WvW shows that the effectiveness is given (yep I should be burried for mentioning PvE in this forum).

The engage and retreat mechanic is in a bad place. Warriors rely so heavy on gap-closers, still there is no option to be immune to slowing conditions as cripple or chill while using them. Also he has to run to the target, without any defensive mechanic another class would bring (invis, ports, blurred-frenzy….).

There has to be something to make melee weapons reasonable.
I’d suggest some sort of immunity to slowing conditions (cripple, chill) while using a gap-closer. So engage a fight means you actually can retreat and meanwhile you are also able to land your cap-closers.
Don’t know why the warrior still has no access to this, as gap-closers are so important for every melee class (or ports / shadowsteps in the case of the thief).

Kain Francois.4328:

Danikat.8537:

I’m not even sure how you could work that out.

I’ve done very simple price comparisons by working on the idea that in GW1 1 gold is the smallest possible unit of currency, so it’s the equivalent of 1 copper in GW2. Which means 1k in GW1 money is 1g in GW2.

But that’s only for comparing prices – mainly for explaining to people who never played it how 1k can be considered not a lot of money and some items could easily sell for over 100k.

I have no idea how you’d factor supply and demand or time invested into that.

Surely 1g is more than 1k? Expensive GW1 items such as ectos drop more often than in GW2, so I was thinking 10g= 100k? Maybe that is still too high? 10g= 50k?

Do Cof p1 SC for an hour and you likely end up with 8-10g. While UWSC for eg was about 15 mins/15-30k in its best time (with randoms 20-30 min, 50% chance to get the endchest). 10g for 100k I think is reasonable. Or mabye 15g for 100k. Really depends

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

So buff to necro, then debuff to necro..makes perfect sense. Not whack-a-mole at all. Slow clap.

This is what happening when not adjusting balance by the help of actual top-class players, but by ppl that play on isolated test-servers without any clue of competitive play. (Some SOTG responses of devs prooves their heavy lack of understanding)

Forget top class players. They don’t make up the bulk of the players in guild wars 2. Focus on the every day player. Top class will always play their game and theorycraft their way. They live in a walled garden of 5 people who know each other well, use vent, assign roles and secondary duties etc etc..when advancing the field of medicine..you focus on what works best on the masses..highly specialised neuro surgeons will always develop their own techniques in their community. At the moment most tpvp players at some stage cut their teeth first in spvp. Again..focus on the grass roots..not the tall poppies that occasionally grow here and there.

All in all though..I totally agree with you. Closed test servers and playing in isolation without taking a few vetted volunteers is detrimental..especially considering there is 1..maybe only 2 people balancing this whole game in pvp.(And potentially guild wars 1 as well) You have people glamouring to give you feedback..use the resource whilst it is there and offering it’s time for free.

The problem I experienced with “casual” players (what I also see on forums) is that they call for nerfs or buffs because they have problems with certain skillz or classes and lack of general understanding in terms of mechanics.

EG: Shatter-Mesmer: If you know the mechanic and when to dodge it gets much easier for you. Casual players sometimes don’t know how to, therefore call the class overpowered and want nerfs. Same goes for BS-Thieves.
If you look into the history of this forum you see SOOO many nerf-this-class-topics due to lack of knowledge.

(This comment is not intended as flaming or any sort of that nature, just my personal experience and the resulting opinion of it)

In general nearly no class make use of several signets. The maximum is ONE (excluding warrior). Since they buffed signets in the last patch, we can expect more buffs for them to make them viable in PvP. Also the synergy in traitlines for signets is not existing. Normally we have 20% CD-Reduction and that’s it.

They should close this thread by now or at least unstick it. The problem is not solved and we didn’t get an official answer from their side either.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

So buff to necro, then debuff to necro..makes perfect sense. Not whack-a-mole at all. Slow clap.

This is what happening when not adjusting balance by the help of actual top-class players, but by ppl that play on isolated test-servers without any clue of competitive play. (Some SOTG responses of devs prooves their heavy lack of understanding)

What many ppl don’t know is about the mace: If you put the light-field (Nr. 2) and while in the field doing the block (Nr. 3) you get a condition remove (Combofield: Light + Whirl-Finisher)

Rest is Basic Stuff: Pure of Voice, Absolute Resolution, Soldier Runes, 2-3 shouts (Save yourselfs is not that good for youself but can do wonders for your teammates).

Purging Flames is also an interesting idea, but only removes conditions if run into the combo-field. this means sometimes if you’ve captured the point there is nearly no chance to run out of this field and hop in again due to possible neutralizes.

Contemplation of Purity could be also a possible aid. The downside is that this utility is a bit selfish, but in the meantime very powerful.

So you see, there is a lot of space for individual play. Try different things and see what fits your playstyle the best. Good luck.

Well, exchanging ppl as “guests” is not working on the topend. The communication in this game is so important that it’s hard to integrate a top player form another team in your own one. This rule applies also for strats, as many teams have different special strats they only can coordinate if 5 players have knowledge about it.

So I’m not sure if this “guesting in multiple guilds” is such a big issue.

These two sentence pretty much sums it up:

“Necros did not need the buff they got, they needed survivability. I know this, you know this and most good necros know this.”

“anet going on the opposite side for nerfing…we need to reduce AOE and he put in game a new condition…..embarassing”

DevO.9854:

Oidmetala.8426:

the moment of ranger talk…

oh lord, never saw such sad faces
and the wish to finish this talk fast…

and no jon, trapper ranger is not a viable build…
its a nice build, but not strong enough to become the 5. spot in a team as dmg dealer…

also not with bm ranger you become a spot in a serious tpvp team…

hahahaha that is what you picked up? When I heard that spirits is viable I couldn’t really take it seriously.

It’s kinda normal. They do this in every SOTG. Last time they mentioned MM-Necro as a viable spec.

TBH: the best way to teach things like these, as I allrdy coached several teams, is to test and experience this ingame in a tournament. There you can see exactly why certain things happen and how. Too hard to write down, you really have to experience this on your own ingame over VOIP.

The reason why Ranger in PvP is not suceeding? He lacks of efficient AoE-Damage (Trapper is too weak compared to other classes) and he has not as much of teamsupport as other classes have. Especially since Necro stepped into the spotlight.

+ I have to agree on above points.

garethh.3518:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

But you know that not the mode is the problem why this game can’t succeed? Sure other modes would get a wider spectrum of players into it, but that’s not the main problem. Incentive is the big word that has to be there first.

Incentive… that the game is enjoyable to play??
A new better game mode would obviously help that.

To attract more ppl yes. not for competitive play nor soloq. Obviously the infrastructure in this game is a mess. eg titles, rank and hotjoingrind, real ladder, lfg tool, proper soloq etc. there are just too many thing that have to be reworked to guarantee fun and incentive over years. i recommend to fix this before plopping in with a new gamemode in a non-stabile pvp population. but yep, in the future there has to be new gamemodes i agree

This is all good and nice. but the paid gear showed us that this is not a permanent solution. after one week you and evetybody has the skins and then what? First anpermanent solution has to be found.

The only way to see the exact rank of a players is, as you described, in the overview at the end of a match. There is still no option to check ranks before/during a match or in the Mists. Bad news

To demonstrate you the Equality between Challenge and Reward:
Let’s take Hotjoin as a false example: Challenge = Not existing, Reward = higher than in competitive play. You see the reason of it now?

In conclusion your answers are far away from what I said. I doubt you ever played GW1, otherwise you wouldn’t bring such a post. Also I doubt you allrdy experienced competitive play in this game, otherwise you would know that the time-investment for competitive play is not rewarding at all and doesn’t support a healthy competition.

Rawrawrr.7195:

What I don’t understand is why in pve you can have the skins you want by “choosing” your dungeon, so you can have flame legion set, nightmare ( for tokens ), or cultural armors (for gold ), but in spvp, you have to grind to rank 50 for flame legion, maybe 70 for nightmare set, and rank 80 for cultural armors ?! Rank 80 for armors that have been created at the beginning of the game ?!
It’s great, because it means that if someone grinds for YEARS to get to the LAST rank, he’ll just have armors that you can buy for some gold in pve or wvw from the BEGINNING of the game …
THIS is the laziest thing I’ve ever see in any MMO. Don’t even dare make beautiful pvp armors to congrate us for our rank 40, 45, 50, 55 ( +… ), and yeah, just give us armors we already know for a year every TEN ranks.

PS : you want new armors ?! go gem shop and sell your house to get this new steampunk skirt / hobo coat / tumorinyourshoulder stuff!!

Have you ever seen someone in GW1 PvP that cared about being rewarded for hitting certain ranks? There were r14 players with Standard Gear. Why ppl should care about cosmetics when they actually have a real incentive in the game?