Guild Wars 2

Tragic Positive.9356:

StickerHappy.8052:

But the thing is, this is a matter of perspective. I for one do not care for my own burst only. when you trigger MoC + remorseless, the pet hits so hard too, so the burst does not actually need to come from you.

A dog KD with Attack of O. + remorseless easily hits for 8k. So I do not know what are you saying about it cannot instakill.

Well, if you want to combine those long cooldowns with dog’s one that is even more so… And my Wolf’s Leap usually hits for 2K without boosts. No idea where the 8 come from.

I understand what you are trying to say. But my point still stands. The damage of this benefit goes only with Greatsword. Regardless of how you defend the current version, my point will still stay. No other weapon but Greatsword has real synergy with the trait.

MoC does apply on pets, and on the drakehound crippling leap is the high damage culprit, I have had mine do 6-8k in spvp. I don’t exactly know how and what multipliers are up but im guessing MoC / opening strike.

I think MoC would be fine at 50% modifier it is at now, but should also amp condi damage making it viable for condi, or hybrid specs. Your right that greatsword is the only weapon that has meaningful bases that can make use of the modifer in a controllable fashion. Currently there is a lot ways you can trigger it, either by SoH, interrupt from pet, gs5, shortbow5, spike trap, and PoS.

Your version of MDG would be either really broken or really underwhelming depending on your damage / crit damage. What I mean is if you have low damage, the 25% is really not going to be helpful and is only going to provide 100% crit uptime. If you have the high damage, and are speced into remourseless you basically get a free kill period between 0-50% hp.

I think something like, for 3 every second under 50% hp gain 5% damage up to a cap of 50% would be a better and more rewarding boost for MDG. It would force players to have to keep their health under 30% and reward them for staying alive so. To be honest this trait will be flawed/useless in the current game because of the amount of burst other classes have and will only be abused in pve.

I do like a lot of your other ideas

At this point in time I am doubtful I will buy the expansion, for various reasons, but mainly lack of info, transparency and lack of support for wvw.

You can play any of the other game modes and feel like your being rewarded and enjoy your self. WvW is only a case of enjoying one self and really not being rewarded. I find my self in pve often to fuel my addiction WvW because it out right costs me more than I make in rewards( see food, upgrades, siege cost etc).

The thing is none of the announcements aside from the recent server population and ooo look a shiny new map do anything to address the problems that WvW has. The new map has EoTM Ktrain written all over it. We have no news of any attempts to fix WvW and make progresses and playtime rewarding in WvW other than we might have ktrain events like the golem event in the near future.

Top it all off we still dont have a release date and we still don’t know exactly what were getting with the expansion. Really the only thing for the pvp/wvw player base all we are getting is class specs and reverant for 50$, the rest we get regardless if we have the epac or not. Which isnt really a good value.

PvP SB/SD SW Condi Trapper

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-JV-F3;1FFx-x2ZEF-0;9V2A;1_YZ;0137056257;4U7ZFU;1l6Uwl6Uw1R

Updated Previous Roaming build. To fit your naming scheme its a Zerk/Valkyrie Survival/Remorseless hybrid build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAsYRjEqQLL2xCGsAVLG+DqtIWgAo73ndH49Ns3gCW1A-T1SBwAXOCAK3fwsSwrKzwq0AlGC86DW8gA0cIAyp+DgTAApAEUnF-w

Swapped muddy terrain for SoW for more immobilize(3 now) +an extra cleanse. Having muddy terrain allows me to drop axe, as there are plenty of ways to set up maul without path of scars. Swapped axe for dagger for more evades which nets more vigor and some condi pressure; mainly poison to prevent healing. SoW is still available via enlargement, so the high hits ares still potentially there. Still has high spike damage(10-12k mauls without SoW up), medium survivability with larger health pool, lots of mobility, lots of vigor/dodge potential and tones of condi cleanse. Spotter and Strider’s Defense can be swapped if group needs the precision boost.

Plate of orrian steak fritters is the cheaper food option and it works well; leaving the build around 24k hp and 240% crit damage. Bow of sweet and spicy butternut squash pushes the the crit damage % up to 245 but losses out on some hp.

I’ve had a lot of fun with this build so far this week; picking out golems and locking them down.

Sube Dai.8496:

Marauder amulet, ogre runes.

Heavy golem, maul with remorseless ~4k

Heavy golem, maul with remorseless and soth ~6k

If you think that is good for the investment, or the ease of use, you have no idea what you are talking about…

I dont seem to think Im some unique snowflake but…. its really not that hard. And the best form of cc is dowing. Which is exactly what happens to low hp builds. It’s a pretty good investment if you can land it.

Malhavoc.8976:

QuickDraw can help, but it also forces one to use abilities in a certain, predictable order almost immediately after weapon swap. Still doesn’t change the fact that we have to use multiple abilities to do damage other professions do with one, either.

Yes your right, we do require multiple abilities to do damage other professions do with one, but almost all of those abilities are higher damage are channeled over time or on much longer cooldowns. Which you could make the same arguments that those channeled skills are telegraphed and easy to dodge.

We have skills inline with other skills on lower cooldowns and then methods of boosting them that other classes don’t have. People then complain that we don’t have damage yet refuse to use those methods because we might miss one hit is just mind boggling to me. Yes build like this are selfish but who cares, we don’t really offer anything to a group right now anyways.

To me using multiple skills to take down targets is what makes ranger unique and appealing. We have outplay potential not out press one button potential. Maybe my issue is I am not trying to play ranger with gs as if I am a warrior or a guardian.

I guess we agree to disagree.

Malhavoc.8976:

That is also without regard to the fact that ranger signets/traits provide a narrow window in which to land one highly telegraphed skill for 10k damage. MoC cannot be procced repeatedly, and Maul probably won’t do 10-12k with Remorseless alone. Of course this would be less of a problem if we could effectively combo Maul with another highish damage skill (as if rangers have many lol), but Maul is too slow to make that work reliably.

Pre spec I would totally agree with you word for on this. With quick draw now we have the option of doing various things. You can totally bait someone with the first maul, hilt bash/swoop to stick them, entangle and then proc MoC while SoW is still up. Allowing the second hit to be the big maul. Or we can completely fake out both mauls and make them burn their endurance and swap for higher damage path of scars. Quickdraw allows ranger to be sloppy, or have a second chance as someone would say.

Malhavoc.8976:

By the way I’m not trying to pick on you. I just saw your post as a good opportunity to make a few points lol. Friendly tip, warrior relies on heavily on weapon swapping. Probably every good warrior build ever packs the Fast Hands trait for this reason.

I totally understand what your saying. I am glad other people can be critical of other people. Which is really uncommon here it feels. Fast hands(even though we do not have the trait) style of play with ranger the only way to play remorseless. Additionally just likel warrior if your not using fast hands to your advantage your hindering your self. I feel that people that do not leverage quick draw are in the same boat as it is our parallel to wars fast hands.

Malhavoc.8976:

tl;dr Greatsword is balanced around theoretical conditions that are out of touch with how things play out in game. This results in rangers having to pop cooldowns and/or meet specific conditions for traits in order to do the same damage other classes do with one skill. Additionally, Maul is relatively hard to combo with the few other heavy damage skills in the ranger’s repertoire due to its cast time. While I focused my post on Maul, my points generally apply to the other greatsword skills as well.

As the ranger profession’s biggest source of power-based nonlinear cleave, the great sword needs a damage buff. A lack of this type of cleave is one of the main factors holding rangers out of the meta.

The whole point of the remorseless based build is you get to pick a skill to do more damage. MoC and SoW allow you to amplify this. All of greatswords skills except hilt bash have 1.0 or higher skill coefficient. All them are good bases to apply those multipliers to be a high damage skill. With wilderness knowledge you have basically absolute control of which skill you like to amplify.

Maul is out of line being a higher medium damage burst skill on a low cool down when not amplified. It does have a longer cast time, as does swoop and and counter attack.

We do lack consistent power cleave, but its not the only thing holding us out of meta. We struggle in other areas that I think that if they were buffed we would be a lot better off than having more damage(such as mobility, group support, bugfixes, and better utilities).

Cless.6120:

Is that post patch? What build are you running? My Maul’s are only hitting for 4k-5k if I am lucky.

Yes post patch. That last screen is from last night. Here is what I am running. IF you want to switch to sword axe, simply swap striders for spotter and ambidex for shared ang.

Sol.4310:

So every 48 seconds you can do that type of damage to target with no armor or protection.

Everyone knows the combo’s behind doing that type of damage problem is there NOT VIABLE against decent players, it’s easy to farm newbies using 1 trick ponies vs their sub-par builds but I can tell you now I would love to see you pull that off in a ESL game.

I totally agree with you that this style of play isnt going to work against the top 5% of the player base and that we will likely never see it in an ESL game. However for the rest of the 95% of the player base, 70% of which would most likely cry for nerfs on our damage if people actually played this way. The full bust of 12k is only possible every 40 seconds yes, but SoH is only on a 16 sec cd(which alone with opening strike is 8-10k) and enlargement allows you to get that SoW twice in every fight.

This type of play style works against opponents that know its coming, you just have to switch your order up. It’s a lot like fighting with Mesmer burst, both parties know its coming, it requires outplays. In my experience, equal knowledge of the this build its a very close fight for all classes, save except Mesmer those just blow me up.

What I am saying in my first post is great sword has spike damage, we have decent utility, we struggle with sustained damage. Adding more damage does not fix our problems and it pushes us into an abuse case(either do to much damage and be viable or not enough damage and useless). Having more damage is also not going to make us viable in competitive spvp, as other classes are more mobile and better at doing +1s which is all ranger can contribute having basically next to no group support.

Cless.6120:

Honestly, since the last patch I feel like switching to GS alot less. The damage output on the GS is lower than the Longbow so I only really swap to GS when I need to disengage or get quick to a point.

I have tried other longbow/x combos and they don’t really feel that effective for a power build.

How are you guys dealing with this?

Some other people will disagree with me here, or flat out saying I am lying but great sword is the highest spike weapon ranger has.

GS is my primary weapon set in wvw and pvp. Landing 10-12ks mauls in spvp is devastating and being able to stick to the target to land another 6-8k maul(using quick draw) with swoop is priceless. Then we have evade frames and blocks as well as the daze. Greatsword is fine weapon and really only lacks sustained damage which is where sword and longbow excel. I am perfectly happy with that. Unlike warrior I actually have a reason to swap out of the weapon but still have plenty of incentives to swap back.

I think ranger needs buffs for pvp, but in other areas, mainly to how we interact with groups. Some QoL changes on gs would be nice, such as the rootfix for hiltbash as someone else mentioned or a fix for swoops sometimes extended flip. Ranger has tones of 1v1 potential we already excel at it, adding more damage wont do anything but push us further into that niche. We need better tools for groups; better utilities and group support not more damage.

For those who are going to say 10k+ can’t be done in spvp here is a screenie of 10k log during a match: http://i.imgur.com/3djHXus.jpg

And I’ve hit harder on others; upwards to 13k. Edit here:
http://i.imgur.com/yF597kt.jpg

StickerHappy.8052:

So how come, frost trap deals pitiful damage, if it scales with power and crit damage., and tooltip is so misleading.

If it did 700 per pulse that would be great, like wells or something/

Because Frost Trap has a only 0.3525 skill coefficient. You can try to boost it with other multipliers but because the base is low, its very difficult to get the damage to go up in a meaningful way. That and we have few static multipliers(predators onslaught, steady focus).

It would be nice if frost trap was a little more meaningful in damage, but its more of a utility trap.

StickerHappy.8052:

So traps should scale with crit damage too right?

Yes it would, butI am unsure if moment of clarity applies to traps. I am pretty sure it doesn’t because utilities are not considered an attack.
Attack of opportunity and opening strike both do, but they only apply on the first hit.

StickerHappy.8052:

Just to clarify, you hit 12k with MoC right? not the SoH one.

SoH + SoW + Remorseless proc on maul.

StickerHappy.8052:

Hmm I never get 8k numbers when I use it in a match, just the regular Hilt bash interrupt Maul one.

Highest I’ve hit in a spvp match is 12k. Higher hits are only really common vs glass builds. A lot of people run cele/tanky setups which makes it harder to hit these numbers. You also have to be glass to hit that high.

StickerHappy.8052:

What about wonderwall was saying about the multi hit skills?

the bird f2 if you ever experienced it hitting for 4k, but tooltip says otherwise. So that was how I am going for the frost trap damage.

What wonderwall is saying is that both the pet and the ranger get the attack of opportunity multiplier.

The 4k your seeing from the bird is caused by a collection of multipliers one of them more than likely being crit damage another could be the attack of opportunity buff from MoC. Anything that is a % increase is always a multiplier that increases an attack.

Tool tips are always wrong because they are your skill damage with fixed amount of armor (2500 pretty sure). They also do not show any multipliers affecting them be it, sigil of force, runes of the scholar , crit damage % or signet of the wild.

The tool tip shows

vs the reality of

Hope this helps.

edited for clarity

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I think your math is wrong. Opening Strike does not to +25% damage without Remorseless.

You can think my math wrong all you want. The multiplier is there and its written on the first minor too.Unspec out of marksmanship… Attack, respec into it attack.

There is a definite discrepancy. Also, before you say that 25% is base for both remorseless and opening strike… its clearly written as more damage and math proves it be.

Edit I totally went and tested this and I am wrong. for what ever reason opening strike the minor trait does not increase our damage at all. Only if we have remorseless. However the additional more damage does factor in when procing it with furry.

avg maul on crit on golems without marksman: 3.2k
avg maul on crit on golems with marksman: 3.2k
avg maul on crit on golems /w remorseless: 3.9k
avg maul on crit on golems refreshing opening: 4.8k

was done on the large pile of golems in the training area.

The grand master Remorseless should read: Opening strike does 25% an additional damage. Furry refreashes opening strike. When opening strike is refreashed by furry damage increases by 25%.

Which means our first minor does nothing other than apply 5 stacks of vaun.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I say again, when other classes get a flat damage increase over a period of time, we get that only on one single hit and need to continually proc fury to get it again. Which even in a dedicated team, still does less damage than a flat +10% increase from PO.

I agree to disagree. PO is better for longer sustained fights. remorseless is better for trash/quick fights. With damage being how it is right now, everything goes down fast. As long as your playing zerk/valk meta, remorseless is better.

Again if you don’t believe me go do 30 sec dps rotations of both optimal builds. The difference will be roughly 8% damage difference(147k vs 158k), however remorseless will do over 1/2 of its damage in the first 8 seconds.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

ANet, I’m begging you do not change the sword.

Just make Dodging and skills #2,3 break the animation of the AA.

In the meantime… Turn off the AA toggle and practise.

/endbread

StickerHappy.8052:

MoC + Remorseless Does not stack. Tried 10 attempts with maul.

Maul without MoC or Remorseless 4.8-5k against full glass
Maul with MoC + Remorseless 6k.

6k only happened once. So it might not stack or it does but the numbers are wrong.

I didnt record. But ArrowSlanger can Confirm it

It works fine for me…
Uploading a sample video now

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=559kXKdL_-c
Clear as day, 8k vs 5k, 7k vs 5k
Its even more noticeable when you start stacking other multipliers, such as signet of the wild, or frost spirit.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I have seen a screen of over 45k Maul, I couldn’t find that one though, 37k had to do. I believe more is possible now since in fact more crit damage is possible and we have the additional +25% from Remorseless.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FK90t2IbjrUMAKp5Jl39dGUFRSf2gs4daSRc3hbFw2M/edit?usp=sharing

According to my math, 33k is our threashold. Unless there is some other buff/multiplier I am unaware of.

Edit: it’s prob more likely 34-5k as I forgot about ascended armor vs exotic. Still realistically it would be unlikely to ever hit that high.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Eval.2371:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Maul one shots?

Edit: Removed the character name from screeny, I think it is naughty or something.

Please enlighten me how this is possible on your target that has more than 1500 armor(full rare gear)… because to my knowledge that is the only way that is possible.

that image was taken two patches ago last year april i think before the major feature patch.

in a Random Pvp arena with the full contributing effects signet of the hunt, Signet of the wild , 25 Vunrability and a build with the maximum amount of damage % increases into a single maul vs a target that was so Glassy it wasn’t even paper.

its not even a image i take Seriously anymore because its no longer possible.

ah I see.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Maul one shots?

Edit: Removed the character name from screeny, I think it is naughty or something.

Please enlighten me how this is possible on your target that has more than 1500 armor(full rare gear)… because to my knowledge that is the only way that is possible.

Maully -> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAsXRjEqQLLWxCGsAVLG+DqtIWgAo73aYH49Nf3gCW1A-TFTBABXcIAUa/BzUCelysnPQAYp0APdBLcCB04IAkj6P5pFAgHAApAiYnF-w

Its a remorseless based build focused amping up maul or path of scars. It relies on Valkyrie armor for an increase in ferocity. The build has plenty of hp, mobility, condi removal and utility as well as a whopping 242% crit damage. It additionally has really good crit % upkeep between spotter and furry keeping it at 60%(70% if a target is running away) The only thing I seem to struggle with is mesmers, but that seems to be common with every class atm.

So far my highest crit is 16.9k on theif. I amyet to find a mes or ele or nec that would let me hit them to see highest damage. If my math is correct with bloodlust sigil stacks up its possible for 21k on glass targets.

I was going to make a video, but there are a lot of better ranger players than me, and most of the video would be boring one shots. So I’ll leave it up to someone else to come up with one.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

If you compare it to other classes, it is quite lacking since it affects only the 1st attack, whereas other classes get a time based buff. That is what I am saying. So, no, it would not be broken at all if it affected 2 or 3 attacks. What is 25% on two or three attacks compared to 20% more damage for 8s every 8s or 20% more damage when your target is under 50% health? Or perma Fury and +16% damage? Those are better by far on a per hit basis, not only that, but they only require one trait whereas OS requires 4 traits.

I think your missing the point I’m trying to get across in my last post. Opening strike isn’t just 25% damage increase, its 5 stacks of vulnerability, and another 25% more damage on top of that when we proc remorseless. Those all stack multiplicatively not additive.

1.25(opening strke) * 1.25(remourseless) * [1+5(stacks of vulnerability)/100] = 1.64 or 64% damage increase.

No other class get a flat x1.64(or 64%) damage increase from a buff from a trait that has no icd, and tones of tools to refresh it. Applying that across 3 hits would be insane, as you could maul swoop maul off a weapon swap and obliterate just about anything in wvw.

To put what I mean in perspective own ranger would be somewhere in the ball park of 20k damage on someone who has 4k armor and 41k on a glass build off the combo mentioned above(maul, swoop, maul) in wvw, which would be broken as hell.

My guess is you want to get mileage out of opening strike without having to spec into remorseless, which I completely understand, however the idea having it apply across 3 hits would break the remorseless build and only end up with the class having nerfs in other areas that are either enjoyable or already lacking.

Holland.9351:

The only problem is that it requires Remorseless to reset. It should be the Grandmaster Minor that does it. The Adept and Master traits could easily be merged as well.

Opening Strike (Adapt Minor)
You and your pet cause vulnerability with you first strike when entering combat

Precise Strike (Master Minor)
Opening Strike always critical hits (100%).

Furious Strike (Grandmaster Minor)
Regain Opening Strike whenever you gain Fury

Remorseless (Grandmaster Major)
Opening Strike deals more damage (25%)

This is a good idea and opens up all builds to use opening strikes. +1

Opening strike in it’s self is ok, but with the rest of the traits that support it is really good. It does not need to apply like sigil of intel, it would be really broken if it did. You should be only looking to use it on our large scaling attacks, which is maul, path of scars, swoop, and rapid fire.

Opening strike its self gets a 0.25 multiplier, remorseless the grand master trait allows you to refreshes opening strike and adds an additional 0.25 multiplier to the attack when ever you gain furry.

There is plenty of ways to get furry; be it from: party members, red moa f2, strength of the pack, on wep swap with furious grip, on pet swap with clarion bond or any of the survival skills when traited into Wilderness knowledge.

If your struggling to get the numbers you want, you should try stacking multipliers which is where remorseless builds shine. Multipliers work multiplicatively, meaning before crit % damage you could easily get a x2.5 multiplier

Totally feel your pain with Mesmers. To be honest there is very little you can do, there are things that help but they really wont make much of a difference…

You can use gs 4 to block shatters… however if they daze you then throw their clones/shatter your a sitting duck regardless.

You could get more toughness/hp… but really that class is not struggling to take tanks down even. I have 24.4k in wvw yet they seem excel at blowing my ranger up.

For condi Mesmer the wilderness knowledge trait is amazing for the condi clear and often you can combine it with mobility to OC while your pet keeps them in combat.

Really the only thing you can do is hope you get a lucky pull with path of scars, or rapid fire that follows while they go invis and burst them down before they can do the same to you. Aside from that avoidance is your best bet. sword+x / greatsword is a great set to escape from them with mobility.

I really hope Anet reconsiders either their damage/stealth. make stealth disable item a use able tool or give us other options to deal with the issue.

Additionally something needs to be done about Mesmer detonation, there is absolutely no counter play of any sort to 5 Mesmer all looking the same, poping out from stealth and detonating on you. I’m seeing it more and more as every day passes.

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

It isn’t a matter of controlling the character, it’s a matter of the situation; landing your procs may be interrupted through a knock-back, daze, freeze, blinds, or just missing. That’s what I mean you can’t be successful 100% of the time when it comes to landing your procs, you won’t always be precise.

It’s commonly accepted that a dps rotation is assumed to be not interrupted.

Why?

90% of the mobs have the exact same attack pattern and don’t offer much aside from damage. Just like the golem they do not interrupt you. The mob is also assumed attacking another party member so there is no reason to break the rotation. Your saying the best case scenarios are scraped(which are encountered more often in pve) because of a niche occurrence?

Additionally it would be assumed that both builds would be interrupted at the exact same time. Therefore both optimal rotation goes out the window. EG both groups have to cancel maul to dodge. Therefore they lose the same attack. So it cancles each other out.

Finally, as I stated above the shorter the rotations the better the Remorseless will do. Meaning if the rotation is interrupted/reset, the remorseless build would have an unfair advantage over the Pred build.

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

I understand that the base damage won’t represent our potential DPS, depending on choice of gear. The reason why I chose to represent the base damage is so that you can use that as a base and build on top of that with modifiers you would choose and stats given through your choice of armor. If I was to use zerker for example and display my numbers from the combat log, it wouldn’t be a fair comparison because of the chance of landing critical hits; rng would determine on how successful your crits were, like you could be unlucky and only hit 40% of the time while in another scenario you would be around 80%. Due to how rng works and how it could widely vary, I decided to use the base damage as the base of the results.

This is why avgs are used when comparing dps. Series of 5-10 thirty second rotation avgs are widely accepted as the dps. Also, just like crit chance, damage varies; quiet a bit too as weapon damage is a range. If you use the logic above you would have throw out base damage as well because its also RNG..

In regards to gear, full zerker with scholar runes is most optimal for both builds. That is your gear control.

If you would like to talk about potential damage, I’d love too but outside of this thread.

I would like to add I am not trying to single you out , I am just critical, and trying to be constructive to a fair comparison. I am not saying your wrong(I totally believe both are very close dps wise), which is maybe how my last two posts came across as.

Redemer.2601:

instead of calling me troll try rage runes with a knights build or try valkery and U still do dmg and can take a hit. pure zerk remorseless build work some but since your a glass cannon you will die a LOT if you go melee havent tried soldier yet but seems like it would work pretty good aswell since U dont need the crit chance only the crit dmg
ps dont troll read and test

The point of this thread is(which you seemed to have missed and jumped to almost random conclusions on); to compare dps of remorseless vs pred onslaught.

I have tried all kinds of things for runes: ranger, pack, scholar, wurm, evasion the list goes on. The highest damage rune set available in the area we are testing is scholars runes with berserk accessories.

You are correct that you need an optimal combination of crit damage and power for a remorseless build. However, in contrast, you need the power and crit chance in a predators onslaught build.

Redemer.2601:

change those now crappy ranger runes for rage runes with remorseless and done not just burst anymore pop rapid fire and watch the fireshow

did you even look at the video? Im a melee ranger. Please stop being a troll hivemind who has no idea what their talking about.

As for runes, that’s scholar runes and Valkyrie accessory. The damage could be higher if I picked up one of the zerker based accessories as I would have higher than 11% crit chance.

Additionally it would be higher if i bothered to use Rampage as One.

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

rotation were Sword/Axe and Greatsword, and timing your Opening Strikes Maul, Swoop, and Path of Scars won’t always be successful 100% of the time.

Why can’t you? you control when your character attacks. Turn auto attack off. Controlling your remorseless procs takes some minor management, which I do in pve and wvw regularly.

Additionally I would like to add the fact I don’t bother with beast mastery. So no two-handed mastery. I have less remorseless procs than you do.

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

The reason why you are doing more DPS in comparison is because I used the numbers for the base damage without any outside sources affecting the damage, I included that detail under Special Circumstances so people would understand that detail… >_>

Ok I missed that detail.

Practically your scenario will always be a false representation of the numbers and is geared towards predators onslaught. Why? In pve you will use all modifiers you have access to. Base damage is the wrong way to go about ranger dps calcs because the meat and potatoes of where the class excels is amplifying its damage with those modifiers. Which is the whole point of the viable remorseless builds.

In regards to OP. We hear the people that yell the loudest.

Ranger is in a bad spot, but were not useless as people make us out to be. I play/focus mainly on WvW and PvE. We do have a lot of bugs and issues but aside from those people in general seem to have not figured out a way to meaningfully use the class yet.

I know there are a few other rangers have figured things out and have not posted anything because they want to enjoy what they have before it becomes meta/nerfed.

I will eventually post my builds in the ranger section, but I want to enjoy them first.

3 questions and a statement.

What is your test mob? I am assuming unbreakable golem?

You do realize remorseless is burst oriented vs extended dps right?
(meaning it will be better towards shorter encounters)

Lastly, what weapon and skills are you using? the only time Opening strike should be consumed is for maul, path of scars and swoop.

If it is a target golem(industructable)your testing on, I can upload a sloppy 60.31k in 30 seconds of remorseless build damage with Valkyrie/scholar . If not please let know which mob your doing your trails on and i’ll match your tests with my own gear setups for science.

I am kinda skeptical of your numbers… its very easy to do a single maul for half your total dps rotation(30sec).

Edit:derp missed the w on weapon…
Edit: Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqgEtgyehhc
Edit: here is a way less sloppy rotation that is 147.6k, making the dps rougly 5k. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb3jUszqEJk

Tragic Positive.9356:

Eval.2371:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Rangers never really had the greatest of bursts

I disagree. gs and axe oh have always had burst. Rapid fire is meh. Yes other classes have better burst, but with quick draw, we have quik bursty rotations.

That is called spike, not Burst. Yes, our spikes were buffed. Our burst went up only by remorseless.

Remorseless does add to the spike. I define Spike is a single large hit or hits that appear as one and burst is more less an amount of damage you can do roughly in 6 seconds.

When I see you telling me 34+k in 6 seconds is low burst I am confused.

Here is a simple combo with avg numbers:

1. Path of scars: 6k + 4k
2. Maul: 12k
3. Two criting aa’s: 4k
4. Maul 8k

That is a 34k burst rotation which is going to +/- roughly 3k damage vs diff armor discrepancies. I am talking from wvw experience here, not pve. Even the opposite rotation which is not a full rotation still has good damage.

1. Maul:12k
2. PoS:6+4k
3. 6 auto attacks: ~10k

is still a respectable 32k and PoS is back up

Now I am not claiming that were a Shatter Mesmer, or Signet Theif with instantaneous spikes, which may be what your referring to, but to say that rangers don’t have good burst is a bit of an understatement. Additionally our burst is more situational as requires the player to land the full combo, which for some is hard.

Photinous.4628:

my maul is only 4k TOP.

Personal top maul so far in WvW. [img]http://i.imgur.com/dJZx1PH.jpg[/img] It was on a theif, and I wish I was recording. But yea, path of scars can easliy do 6k back and forth, maul do 10-15k normally(which might I add was hitting pre patch, and since my damage has gone up).

Tragic Positive.9356:

Rangers never really had the greatest of bursts

I disagree. gs and axe oh have always had burst. Rapid fire is meh. Yes other classes have better burst, but with quick draw, we have bursty rotations.

Indy.8540:

Power Rangers don’t just feel weak post-update, they are weak post-update. Speaking purely from longbow, because it does seem like other weapons were improved upon though.

Longbow Power Ranger lost 25-75% total damage based on other stats currently in use and skill in question. I started a thread a few days ago with more detailed information on that.

Now, look at every other class post update. Did anyone else take that hit? Did any other weapon/class combination take that kind of reduction? No. So, what I see a lot in here, is that Longbow Ranger’s were fine in PvE and PvP before the update, and now, after the update, they are still somehow fine, even though they took a massive hit to damage.

Does anyone actually see the logic in this?

I totally agree with you we lost stats, we got more or less balanced. While the other classes got outright buffed.

Unfortunately ranger is overlooked by anet. They have made the class require a lot more effort, and thinking to do well with it. Then add the fact we keep getting “bug fixes” that making us weaker and weaker.

Ranger is in a niche spot right now. It is only really good at roaming/dueling and +1s. The only thing ranger really brings to the table for groups is precision and furry. Aside from that burst and 1v1s.

FrownyClown.8402:

looks like he is running a build like this.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAT8IGIEqdHCgqun3VIF449qjgRcE

More like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAT8YjEqQLLWxCGsAXLGIEqt0Dgqun3iNG449qjgTG1xaA-TlCBABXq+DEPAgl2f4MlgYpMDgLAQWKNyT3wGHBgAOIAkCQQdWA-w

all in all good video, very smart play style. Loved the use of terrain.

niconori.7235:

Had a good laugh.

1) The only thing you bring to your zerg is your sustained low dps which just got nerfed more than 20%. Yes very useful indeed.

Chiming in here. Yes we lost 20% modifiers we also gained quick draw. Zerg for the most part are not a sustained fight, at least if your living thorough the entire fight. Your in and your out. Then back in. It is the only way to live in this current meta with all of its damage.

This is especially true if you play front line, you go in you burst your target you get out. Remorseless and quick draw let us do that.

niconori.7235:

You know engi outclass ranger in this aspect now? Mortar kit autos hit harder and faster than longbow autos and is aoe (vs piercing), can aoe chill (vs cripple), but there’s also burn poison and heal and f5 burst.

Totally agree with you longbow is in a bad spot.
Your comparing an elite kit to a subpar weapon. What ever.

A lot of people say, X class does Y better than ranger so why run ranger. I totally get this view point I mean

• mesmer has more burst
• War has more utility and sustain
• Engi has more condi
• Ele does more with ice bow than entire kit.
• etc the list goes on

Which is all true. However, ranger is the only class that has package of sustain, survivability, burst, utility and fun. When I die playing my ranger it’s because of personal mistakes rather than not having a tool to deal with what ever opponent. Every other class has something they can’t/struggle to deal with. Ranger has some form of counter to everything. That’s why I play ranger.

@Op I completely agree with you that we did not get buffed as much as other classes however, we got a lot last patch. Just to list some of the things:

• We got interesting choices to make and skill rotations with quick draw, You can double maul to take a target down or swoop to close the gap.
• With quickdraw and remorseless we have some of the quickest burst in the game.
• We got permanent furry up time between red moa and warhorn.
• A boost in pet stats, 150 base added on, + 150 more for going down beast mastery, then ferocity. literally pets do more damage the avg pug in a group.
• We got quick swap on pets, additional damage modifiers. Additionally we got the choice of quickness or taunt depending on how we choose to use those pets.
• Spirits don’t require upgrading to get good use out of them.
• Remorseless mechanic that allows for a damage boost as well as a guaranteed crit.
• tones of condi clear with wilderness knowledge. The ability to proc the above mechanic and reduced cool downs on some of our corner stone skills
• with the two above you can guarantee that your big skills crit; be it maul, path of scars or rapid fire, and have a 25% increase in damage.
• you can effectively remove about 40% crit chance from your build(if you were maxed at 100%), as you can keep that up with spotter, moa, and hunters tactics.
• the list goes on…

We didn’t get nerfed. We got lots of buffs. Were they the buffs that we needed to be a TOP tier class in every game mode? No. However, were still pretty useful. I think you like many people jumping the gun, saying were useless when a lot of people are still adapting to the change and trying new things and don’t even have the builds or the play style figured out.

Hey, currently have a small guild of close friends, but schedules have changed so were not on as a group to do stuff as much I would like to. As the title states, I am looking for a group that’s basically up to do runs for anything, preferably on EST that is active and enjoys doing fractal/dungeons clears on a regular basis but does not to be the focus of the guild.

Time slot wise I am typically on between 6pm-1am est. I play war and ranger mostly as they are the only two I have geared currently. I play close to most optimal meta and know my way around most if not all content.

Fractal personal level is 23, I am looking at raising this in the near future, as I am currently geared for 40ar and looking at capping out soon with ascended armor.

@OP The skill works as labeled.

It is not an exploit but it is to say “cheap”

Lick wounds works regardless if the pet is alive or not and regardless if you in water or not.

You can kill the pet and the downed ranger has to wait for the cd to be back up again.

Its really not that hard to cleave a downed ranger even underwater. As a ranger I get killed in and out of water all the time by smart people that fight me rather than the pet.

It sounds like you you and your friends chased the pet while they mostly self res’ed.

Please if your going to make an exploit post, do post a video. Something maybe broken, but more than likely it’s just a misunderstanding of mechanics. Which this sounds like it is a case of.

Eirh.1439:

Thanks Eval for the testing. I guess I won’t use the Rune in that case.

There is an option that you could go about using them without the 6th rune. You would get most of the stats and get the mileage I think your looking to get out of the rune.

Eirh.1439:

Eval, thanks but I don’t think it answers my initial question.

Yes, the cripple attack does use up your opening strike if it hits. However if you roll, while in combat and do not hit the opponent with the cripple proc, it does not consume the opening strike. The damage is roughly an auto attack with opening strike and aoe.

Sorry went out to lunch giving advice based on my own rune trial and error.

Kaz.5430:

Eval, are you saying that based on actually ‘testing’ the effect in the live game?

Yes testing in the live current game.

Edited my OP for clarity.

PvE 7/10 We can bring permanent group furry, spotter, frost spirit and single target dps.

WvW 9/10 Excellent roaming and dueling. Ok in zergs unless there is a group of rangers.

sPvP 5/10 Were good at 1v1 duels and +1ing and that is about it.

Ive tried these, it works, mind you have to be careful as you can easily waste your dodges for opening strike. If we didn’t apply the damage on roll, I’d be all over it, but unfortunately it does.

You can get a free opening strike if the crippling attack proc does not hit any opponents, otherwise it is consumed by the dodge roll. Making it gimmicky to get mileage out of the rune.

One thing you can do is run 5 of these and something like a beryl/ruby orb so that the crippling attack does not consume the opening strike.

Really you only need the opening strike on our big attacks: maul, rapid fire, path of scars etc. Which is pretty easy to manage right now.

Are they better than other runes? They are ok but I think there are better options. The ferocity is good but without the power to back it up its a damage loss. The ability to refresh opening strike is useful, but you shouldn’t be struggling to refresh with furry on swap, & wilderness knowledge.

Ogre or scholar would be better suited for a open strike based build. As you get the power and ferocity. Personally I use pack, as it gives the power boost and a chance to refresh open strike on being hit and rounds out other parts of my build.

Edited for clarity. Jesus I cannot type for the life of me this morning.

Personally, I find if you use long bow vs gs it is a damage loss in pve. Sword axe / greatsword is the higher dps wep set. PvE wise I feel that ranger brings more to the table then it did before and still has really good single target dps.

So about the same as before.

I dont know about dagger but axe def has the old trait into baseline. PoS is that nice far range and WD is the same deal.

Firelysm.4967:

Wilderness Survival:
- Soften the Fall, 50% less dmg on fall. Why is this in game?

Two words: Jumping Puzzles

Pounce is by far the most iconic part of sword.
I totally feels you with swords auto attack when you have the AA enabled.

Few tips with sword 1 is you can dodge at any time by wep swapping, canceling the animation and allows to dodge. Personally I just turn AA off because you can use your kick and pounce for mobility if you drop target and its much more controlable for dodging.

I think the only thing that needs to be changed in the attack chain is the kick locking you. It’s already a single target skill and really doesnt bring much to the table. I’d rather kick have a smaller ranger and be able to dodge during that frame without having to cancel the attack.

Double maul crit with Intel sigil. I can’t wait to…

PoS->entangle->swap->maul->hilt bash->maul-> /cheer

Hopefully with opening strike and moment of clarity(was not able to pick up in my current build) damage boosts I’ll finally be able to push to that 20k maul in wvw. (highest so far is 15k on a poor theif, avg is 9-12k).

another fun one could be double path of scars. inb4 scorpion ranger yelling GET OVER HERE.

funkylovemonkey.3097:

chemiclord.3978:

No. They won’t. And they shouldn’t.

The price is right in line with what MMO expansions cost. Deal with it.

Last expansion for SWTOR was $20. Last expansion for GW1 was $25.

Don’t have to deal with anything, just not wasting $50 on three new areas.

Literally this. If HoT had as much content as the base game I paid for 3 weeks ago, maybe. I might add in the original FAQ for (which they have shadow updated now) that HoT required the base game. Which is shady, and to be frank I feel lied to.

As it stand the only thing it will bring is 3 maps, a guild map, a new class, and a competitive ladder(what ever that means). I understand development costs and a lot of work was put into the expansion but it only seems like a mere 100 hours of content compared to the base game which is well worth its dollar.

If anet wants to sell it at 50$ fine that’s there choice, but they are really going to have to start showing what level depth of content were talking here. I mean I could buy witcher 3 right now for the same price and easily get 500 hours out of the game.

mistsim.2748:

As I feared, they didn’t make too many good changes from the last reveal. in fact, quite a few of our traits were nerfed, some deservedly so. Half of our GM’s will not be competitive with the others, so quite a few opportunities missed here…

I totally agree with you. A lot of opportunities we had in the previous snapshot are gone. A lot of potential build diversity is stagnated as your hand is twisted to pick other better choices.

I mean the marksman line is solid, except maybe the changes to signets not refreshing opening strike, but hey what ever. I think this line has a lot of potential with the right support. However the rest of the trait lines are too scattered to make the opening strike mechanic nothing more then a frustrating gimmick.

Skimishing really has nothing to offer to the class. I mean spotters there and its an obvious pick up. Striders defense looked potentially competitive with its previous stats.
I don’t get why warrior can have the same perk and get the damage incrase as well and ranger can’t. In its current state, its a mediocre perk. Quick draw is obvious I feel like this should be a minor trait as every ranger that goes down this line is only going down it for this. I feel like quick draw is going to promote senseless spam rather than interesting game play where my opponent is going to cry about double rapid fire. I feel bad that I am forced to do it as its my only option, and he feels bad because there is little counter play to it. The bleed master trait seems good but, again it forces a paradox of giving up team damage. IMHO spotter needs to be a adapt so that we can have interesting choices in this tier.

Wilderness Survival has some really good and obvious condi options, many of which are nerfed from current game, but with more available stacking they might be good. Bark skin has been re-purposed, which frankly, does not aid with other themes in the new kit that the old version would (IE might stacking below 50% hp, or nature magics theme). What sad here is the 2 grandmasters are really the only worth while traits in the whole line other the the minors if your not going condi. This line used to provide ways for rangers to last in fights not it does not really aside from condi negation.

Nature magic really only has two worth mentioning traits in the whole entire line. Which is saying a lot considering this is supposed to be the tankish/healing line. Yet I have a lot to say about it. Here is my three paragraphs on it:

Allies’ Aid will help make rangers useful in all groups, and seems interesting. I would pick it simply because the other two choices are really lacking. When I read this trait I keep asking my self why this is not a beastmaster minor trait.

The regen in this line would have to substantially broken to make it the line ever worth picking up ignoring Protective Ward. Which I if that’s the goal, as a range I don’t want it. Why ? because those types of interactions are destroyed by poison, unfun to play as or against. It’s like having a pile of stats that you never notice having. There is nothing skillful about it.

Which finally leaves me with Protective Ward, this skill looks broken, however apparently its up in the air if the protection is applied to the pet or your self. If it is applied to you, or you and your pet, cool, it almost saves the line and makes it a worth while pick. If not, there is no reason to pick up this line. I really dont believe that one trait should save a line. I want to actually pick things in here that feel wort while, yet there is nothing there to really pick.

Lastly, Beastmastery, again right off the bat I want to point out that we get a watered down variation of wars gs boost. Our pet does gain some significant stats, and an interesting ability to taunt. Some small regen and that is about all that is worth noting.

Id like to sum up that my feeling just comparatively looking at ranger vs the other classes, were becoming a jumbled identity less class that has scattered and water down variations of other classes. Which makes me really sad. I do not see much that we bring to the table other than spotter and the new pet revive that other classes don’t already bring and do a better job than us.

All in all as a class that was just ok, that needed some work and now it looks really bad. In fact worse off than it was before. Comparatively engineer got the world and the moon in improvements and I am happy for them, even though I feel they really didn’t need as much as they got. As a ranger I have to say I am jealous of them and just wish that anet would give us some of that love.

So please anet go back to the board with ranger: make melee comparable to warrior in utility and damage, Make range something that wont become a quickdraw rapid fire spam, and do keep the interesting work with the condi damage.

anduriell.6280:

Wuselknusel.4082:

Mesmers have only very limited access to swiftness, while Necros are lacking any leaps or blinks.

Right. Rangers (because i see you don’t know) don’t have any TP, blinks and only one leap in GS. Forget about the SW because more than a leap is going back were you were.
Our access to swiftness is only one skill in the warhorn.
So yes: worst mobility in the game.

sword, has two leaps on one skill (monarch/hornet). LR is a leap, gs has swoop. swiftness warhorn. In current game, the only thing that can keep up to my ranger is a nike warrior and it struggles.

mistsim.2748:

that doesn’t work with the current state of the ranger.

you MIGHT be able to pull it off when the new specs come out if you go 6/0/6/0/6. rangers are weak in melee (unless condi bunkers) and don’t have any spike (maul is too unreliable). damage is too low unless you go zerker stats.

As another melee ranger chiming in, I do agree with you on the new specs, but I dont agree with you saying current it has no spikes. When traited/geared for PoS does decent damage upwards to 8k, and I’ve landed 15k mauls in WvW on geared lvl 80s. It is really not that hard to land them in succession. The rest of the kit is pretty much sustained damage.

Maul really isnt that hard to land, when you have PoS, hilt bash, counterattack/crippling throw, and entangle to set up mauls.

The issue with melee ranger, is it is only good at dueling. Any more than 2 opponents and things can becomes a complete mess. Then there is the fact that immobilize shuts you completely down.