Guild Wars 2

vove.2768:

Emdrix.6124:

Im far from being a pro player and I have 3 accounts in the top 250 full solo Q.

I think this only confirms how flawed the system is.

Or a reality check on how active and small the community actually is.

Supreme.7352:

I like how you misrepresent people in order to make yourself feel superior.

I honestly think I am high-silver to low-gold level of player. The fact that I have to slam my forehead against a concrete wall to get to even that level is super-frustrating. That’s not challenge. That’s grind.

I am not trying to make my self feel superior I am just laying out things how I see them.
My perspective of the scene has always been the majority of the community suffers from dunning–kruger syndrome. My self at times included. I just choose not let outcomes of matches or a number control my enjoyment of the game. I make my experience an enjoyable and realistic one. You can too.

The fact that you describe ranked pvp as a grind and relate it to harming your self makes me question if you even enjoy pvp to begin with, and are just playing it for the rewards and prestige. If that’s the case then thats your own fault for forcing your self to do something you don’t enjoy.

Supreme.7352:

Consider then someone who may belong in platinum, but gets stuck in bronze through no fault of their own.

That’s like saying someone who never applies for a job, deserves to get the job. Yes there may be people that just get the job due to random luck and connections. Them keeping it is a totally different story. Some people have to work to get the job they deserve. It’s no different with MMR rank. The only thing you have control over is your performance and the number of times you pick you self up and try again. You can only be stuck in bronze by fault of your own, your either not good enough and not looking to improve, or your inactive and not playing.

Supreme.7352:

Eval.2371:

I think you misunderstand the point of the video: luck is a myth,.

Duh. But dice rolls aren’t, and that determines who you are paired with/against.

You people seem to misunderstand.

It’s not about where you are at the end of the league. The no-lifers already take care of eating all that space up. It’s about where you start and if you want to keep having fun.

I have already worked myself out of bronze and into mid-silver with only 60 games played. But it takes a considerable amount of effort and is blood boiling.

Fun is completely subjective.

Being challenged to some people is fun. Steam rolling everything with minimal effort for some is fun. There are blow out matches at all levels of gameplay that are not fun. It happens.

In all honesty from the way some of you describe this issue, its like you guys think way to highly of your selves and let a near intangible number manages your level of satisfaction of the game. Which if that is the case, I feel truly sorry for you and don’t see how I can reason with that kind of logic at all.

Supreme.7352:

Eval.2371:

If you think it’s luck, watch this http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1iamx4_through-the-wormhole-is-luck-real_creation

Nobody thinks it’s some cosmic force causing them to be placed into bronze. The placement matches are the worst thing ever and grinding out of them to get some decent teams is unfun.

These “got mine” people have no idea how infuriating the dice roll for the placement matches are.

The fact there was a PvE player in the top 5 only shows how random it feels to people.

I think you misunderstand the point of the video: luck is a myth, take a larger sample size and you’ll where you belong. Getting placed bronze or low silver means nothing. Which I’ll admit I got placed low silver with some terrible placement matches, I climbed to gold in a couple of days. I can see my self if I continue to play to easily make it plat. It’s not that hard.

A player getting placed in top 5 means nothing if he cannot play at the level and stay there. He will fall if he actually does not belong there when he continues to play games.

That’s the whole point I am saying, if you don’t like where you are play more. It is statistically likely you climb unless you play at a level well below your opponents.

I would challenge someone who is much better than I am and has much more free time than I have; to purposely get placed in low bronze for science. Then prove to the community how easy it is to climb.

narcx.3570:

Eval.2371:

I feel with the damage changes and then new deadshot amulet, condi build is in a really solid place with a generosity sigil. I have found that with the heavier condi focus this season that the vit and precision have help a lot with being able to either trade the conditions back or sustain through them.

Can you even put out enough damaging conditions with Corruption/Mallyx to totally justify taking zero points in power? Chill, Burn, Torment, Poison, and Blind on a longish CD leaves your only damage very counterable to even minor cleansing. I feel like the couple of times I’ve tried the Condi Rev in PvP I end up doing pretty even direct/condi damage… And without the power of Carrion or Sage’s, I cringe at the low about on DPS it would have been. 0.o

This is close to what I run stat wise, except its deadshot and scavenging instead.

All I can say is try it. This season I’ve had matches where my power & condition damage have been in the realm of 150k power:400k condi with the deadshot build. I find dishing out damage not to be a problem at all its more surviving when focused by 4 people, which to be frank almost every class struggles with that.

People in general just need something to blame.

People need to realize that there are 10 people in a match. 5 of those people are on the enemy team, 4 of them are on your team. You have no control of either of those factors. What do you have control of is your contribution which equates to about 10%. For better or worse, you the player have control over your contributions.

As for afkers ragers, etc the enemy team always has a better chance of having this so long as you do not do these things. Yes it will happen and it will feel terrible. Just find some fun in those games(maybe duel someone is really good on the enemy team or see how long you can hold a point 3v1), look at what went wrong at the start and how to prevent that.

A 50% win rate is good and shows you are roughly where you belong and even still you can climb with 50% win rate. If your not where you belong you will climb with a win rate roughly 55% or plumet with a win rate of 45%. You will get to where you belong and climb so long as you take a big enough sample size. If you don’t like your rank… play more.

If you think it’s luck, watch this http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1iamx4_through-the-wormhole-is-luck-real_creation

Stiofan.6720:

Eval.2371:

As for condi war vs condi rev, my experience is the rev will win. Simply put we can remove the war’s resistance and are just as durable when we manage resistance and generosity procs. Condi mesmer vs condi rev is a completely different story.

Ok you’ve removed his resistance what about him triggering cleansing ire (removes 3 condi) every 1-2 seconds, His 1k hps, 2 × 5sec endure pain, All while putting tons of condi on you, Once your resistance and energy runs out (which happens pretty fast) you’ll die.

9 times out of 10 if a condi rev goes toe to toe with a condi warrior the rev will lose.

Endure pain means almost nothing to condi rev, a lot of people run the extended stances over cleansing ire to make berserker stance and endure pain last longer. I will admit those that do run ire I struggle against more.

However, if you know this in advance, loading up multiple conditions and reapplying them after ire to prevent the confusion cleanse can cause them to kill them selves.

Once mallyx energy runs out it is time to kite with staff and cleanse. Glint heal if needed. Then swap back to mallyx and mace. You should never be grinding your face against a war in berserker stance on anything, instead be actively kiting him and saving your resources for when it ends.

I have a guild mate that I’ve dueled a lot in the past who is high plat in pvp this season on warrior. He’s really good at condi war, our duels were roughly 50:50. I am not saying it’s an easy fight, but it’s not unapproachable like you make it sound. I’d upload something to prove what I am talking about but my computer does not handle recording at all while running the game.

Rev is in this odd spot where you have to frantically expel your resources and swap just so you can have energy to use the tools you need. Then it is a 50:50 if your in the legend that has the tool you need when you need it. If you attempt to camp a legend for a specific reason or functionality the class starves it’s self and locks it’s self out of its own tools. An example of this is if you stay in mallyx to attempt to mitigate condition damage, you’ll last a mere 5 seconds and then be helplessly starved un able to do anything but auto attack until you swap. If you just swapped, well congratz now you get to spend 4 seconds kiting, until you can do something again.

The reason for this is our weapon skills and our utilities gate each other from being able to be used because of how costly they are. originally the gates were fine, considering how strong the both sets of skills were. However, none of the weapon skills are worth their costs anymore with the recent set of nerfs (almost everything is less damage than auto attack).

They need to either remove(or heavily reduce) the costs on weapon skills, or reduce the costs heavily on the utilities and get rid of the cool downs, or give us means to generate energy.

Honestly they should give us rewards for landing high cost skills or possibly auto attack generating energy. The high cost path could be something like landing surge of the mist; each hit giving you 2.5 energy back. An example of the auto attack generating energy would be 2.5->2.5->5 for the auto attack chain. The only draw back I can see to this is they will do balance around having that regen and further increase the costs of everything, putting us back into the same starved problem.

Xca.9721:

Pyriall.1683:

Learn to make builds and test things on your own. There’s a very good hybrid build available that uses Mallyx and Glint. Stop being lemmings.

why would i play condi rev when condi warrior is 10 x better?

Running Mallyx does not mean your a dedicated condi build or even hybrid for that matter. Mallyx has some good condi mitigation, group boon removal, a little bit of mobility as well as a nice stat boost. All of which are useful to a power build. It just means the utilities are not used for the damage component; instead for the utility.

As for condi war vs condi rev, my experience is the rev will win. Simply put we can remove the war’s resistance and are just as durable when we manage resistance and generosity procs. Condi mesmer vs condi rev is a completely different story.

No. I don’t think tourneys are a good idea.

All they ever did was a create a situation where the base would predetermined bandwagon server that won. It gets stacked they get rewards, other people get kittened off. Leave. Those that bandwagon and no life to win get burned out and leave.

Also, one could argue sPvP has a pro scene, and a some semblance of balance. WvW still has yet to have a proper balance pass (IE remove things that they know are clearly broken, such as perplex runes).

I may get flak for saying this, but I do agree with you that the reductions were a bit much. However, the majority of people that understand the power build and it’s burst wont have too many issues. The class has been adjusted kinda how thief was a while ago in spvp. We just got pushed more towards team fights rather than +1. I think if they sort out our bugs we’d be in a really balanced position right now.

I’m going to preface this with, I’ve gone back and forth between the condi and power build over various patches. I feel that mallyx is really solid now, and even useful to a power build. You might see some picking it up over shiro for the more reliable heal, boon rip, extra stats now that it has a stun break.

I feel with the damage changes and then new deadshot amulet, condi build is in a really solid place with a generosity sigil. I have found that with the heavier condi focus this season that the vit and precision have help a lot with being able to either trade the conditions back or sustain through them.

Staff I feel is still a really strong weapon. On both builds. The bash skill is little bit more rewarding with the lowered cost. Staff 5 will always be useful for its cc, evades and mobility. The block and heal are all still really reliable. The only thing I keep coming back to is the auto attack sucks.

Swords the opposite, the majority of the skills other than the auto attack suck.

VciouSidewinder.4029:

So can we say condi rev is solid and viable at 5 man roaming in wvw?

Condi rev got a lot better with the last patch. Mallyx having a stunbreak helps immensely. All kinds of revs including condi struggle with conditions, we can delay them with pain absorption with lots of allies near it makes a huge difference. Generosity procs can make or break an encounter vs condi builds.

The problem with condi rev will always be: lack of application from range, and survivability because you have to be in melee. I’d say its alright in wvw if you play around the above limitations.

Huskyboy.1053:

Hmm yea I suppose it’s good if you’re constantly upkeeping. Wouldn’t rune of scavenging make more sense though?

Scavenging is a viable alternative. It’s more bunker centric option though as it provides less offensive stats. Also the steal life scales with healing power which is why I think its better suited for a sages amulet rather than a carrion one. My second build makes use of this.

DUNSTAN.8529:

I get what you’re saying about Torment and Poison but think back to the Necromancer. Until recently the powerhouse condition build…

What makes necromancer a good condition class is that it many very large aoe radii applicators; that apply multiple stacks of conditions per skill, at range.

In contrast

Revenant has few applicators; many of them low stacks, small radius, and require you and your opponent to stay in melee range.

lucadiro.4519:

DUNSTAN.8529:

In PvE though, you’re essentially only swapping to Staff to break so on-swap condition sigils probably aren’t appropriate. I actually think it’s not a bad idea to bring a Berserker Staff with Force or Air plus Paralyzation. Might look into generosity though.

Swap Legend proc sigils “on swap”

this.

@MithranArkanere.8957 Totally agree this is another direction that hes not been explored that would make condi rev playable. I don’t think it’s a direction anet will take though. Which is unfortunate.

Little bit of explanation here:

I take rune of the undead simply because its really stat efficient with upkeep costs because of hardening persistence. I get more effective health out of the vit/toughness relationship on a carrion undead setup than the straight wanders path.

So some quick math here.

Toughness is 1000 base,
hardening persistence adds +200 for embrace upkeep
embrace the darkness is a 1.1 modifer
Thats 1320 toughness
Which is a 92.4 condi damage return from 6th rune effect.
So basically out of one rune I get 175 condi damage + 100 toughness +92 condi damage.

All of that said, I would get more out of Balthazar runes or nightmare runes or running straight vippers. In the past when I have played those higher burst builds I struggled being able to stick to targets in the fray. That little bit of def goes a long way.

I cannot believe that it’s almost been a year a half from beta weekend and we still have the same bugs.

How can they expect anyone to have faith in any new content if they never fix the old stuff.

Sorry, inc wall of text.

In relation to what I posted in my previous post, I think something like:

When you strike a target that has the threshold of torment, apply poison.
Every 5stacks of torment -> applies 1 stack of 5sec poison
ICD 8 sec
+33% poison duration

Would be appropriate for venom enchantment. I realize I didn’t convey that I meant the trait instead of the auto attack chain.

I think the auto attack chain is fine, as the third part is aoe. I’d like it to function like precision strike on single targets. My biggest issue with the auto attack chain is how unforgiving the chain its self is to get off. If they made it more like thief staff auto attack for allowing us room between attacks to get something pressing off and then continue the chain (eg legend swap, or banish enchantment) it’d be a lot better as well.

DUNSTAN.8529:

I’m in two minds about this. I think that it’s important for classes to remain thematically different and multiple classes already have good innate support for Burning. I think that the condition focus for Revenant should stay on Torment and Poison and that Burning should just be an added bonus.

I do kinda agree with your sentiment. The issue with this is that poison and torment do not really complement each other being low damage and more utility focus conditions. I think the intent with burning was a way to force people to move and our way to force condi clears. In reality it ends up to being burning is our only way to burst or take targets down, as we don’t have the tools to win the battle of attrition making torment underwhelming in some respects and poison to be laughable.

I don’t see torment and poison becoming a relevant damage sources to rev until anet either basically hand out methods to apply poison and meaningful ways to sustain in fights. Basically we’d need to become the problem that is the rest of the condi classes, we need so much application that it wouldn’t matter if they cleansed it.

DUNSTAN.8529:

I used Smoldering sigils and am considering Malice sigils though to make the most of the, as you pointed out, relative high ability of the Revenant to apply Burning.

Just an aside, if your using any kind of amulet that has precision, I highly recommend a generosity sigil for the pseudo plague signet effect.

Malice is ok. Smoldering is really good. I would take an earth or an on swap sigil over malice.

Huskyboy.1053:

Not really sure why that needs to happen first. What you mentioned are small issues

The fact that our main applicators of our conditions whiff at random due to terrain or bad navmeshes is not a small issue.

Huskyboy.1053:

searing fissure it easily kited even when it works properly. Wouldn’t make a big difference.

Sure it does, its the difference between 0 stacks of burning and one. It’s also the difference them ticking torment for double because they are kiting the searing fissure as well.

Them not having to move and standing on a ramp or slight elevation not taking any damage is what I’m talking about here. So yea, if anet flattens all the maps, sure not a problem.

Huskyboy.1053:

Btw have either of you played Condi rev extensively? I don’t really care to try and convince a ton of people to play it, but it would be nice to have experienced spvp players who have played it with whom I can discuss it.

I have played condi rev in spvp in the past. I wouldn’t call my self an expert, just knowledgeable. Here is what I settled on in previous seasons, which will more than likely change this season.

I found it grossly underpowered but still enjoyable compared to power build. Condi does much much better in a wvw setting(where I primarily play it) thats only because you can get the stats you need.

DUNSTAN.8529:

Despite the build being fun to play, I have been unable to find a way to come up with comparable DPS to competitor builds. The main cause of this, in my opinion, is the Revenant’s over ability to apply Torment (a relatively weak Condition that is reliant on movement) and under ability to apply Poison specifically, but potentially Burning as well.

Ignoring application bugs, and a range weapon you’ve nailed the issue from my perspective.

Condi Rev has good support for terrible conditions: torment and poison. Both are low damage, and the poison is low application. You’ll eventually notice that burning is pretty much all the damage and really only comes from 3 sources(DI, EB & SF) Yet we have no have no burning support.

DUNSTAN.8529:

Additionally, the Mace attack chain could be changed from:
1 stack Torment – 1 stack Torment – 1 stack Poison
to:
1 stack Torment – 1 stack Poison – 1 stack Poison and 1 stack Torment

I think that on 5 stack of torment ->1 burning on a 5sec ICD + 25% burn duration would be a million times more useful and reasonable. It would mean play around stacking up torment and rewarding for keeping it up. Our auto attack chain wouldn’t need to be changed. In addition give some counter play thought for when to cleanse the torment.

I am all for buffs to improve our dps, but I think the class in general needs a lot of love for our ground target skills which all seem to wiff on any kind of terrain difference between you and the target. Which is really sad because mace thematically is one of the funnest weapons I’ve used in a long time but its such a poor weapon because of the above issue.

Edited: removed some non relevant stuff.

I’m not against buffs, but I will say condi rev as a whole needs to have its bugs sorted out before anything.

You could buff searing fissure to the moon and back and it still dont matter if its unreliable jumping or on uneven terrain. I still don’t think anet acknowledges that all of the ground target skills on rev, including elemental blast, CoR, Axe 5, and unyeilding anguish all have the elevation bug.

Then they need to sort out the attacking random terrain bugs, on embrace the darkness and UA so that were actually attacking what we want to be.

Then stuff like your changes could come.

Justine.6351:

Infiltrator Strike change should be across all game modes. A 50% increase in range is a huge mechanical change.

This. Any change that is above 25% change should be considered a mechanical change. Thus should be evaluated for all game modes.

Even multiple changes over time that cause large discrepancies should be addressed across all game modes. It may be fine now, but further down the road if anet don’t keep stuff like this in check they are going to back them selves into the a corner having to do 3x the work, in addition to confusing the base from game mode to game mode.

Again I’ll say it split balance is needed soley because PvP does not use the same stat format the rest of the game does.

Cerby.1069:

players shouldnt be able to do something ingame that makes ur pc spazz out…..

Just change to standard models /s

Waffle.3748:

DeceiverX.8361:

Or you know, not being able to even see the Epidemic channel at all because it’s not animated and the particles can be overridden by just spamming the tonic’s lightning effect during the channel.

The things need to go.

https://gfycat.com/CleverEveryGiantschnauzer
Epidemic is animated.
Lightning spam needs to stop, I agree.

Double click the tonic after starting the cast for epidemic. It wont animate for the opponent.

Waffle.3748:

Eval.2371:

Kodan Endless Tonic a more recent addition to the game slew of tonics is causing problems with counter play. Currently people are using the tonic to hide animations of various high burst skills and dodges leaving opponents with nothing to read.

Skritt tonics are still also regularly being abused for movement poping in and out and using the movement skill while in and out of combat.

I don’t care about the questionableness of if either are an exploit or intended. The fact of the matter is people are using them to gain unfair advantages over other players.

What skills are being hidden still? The only thing I’ve noticed not animated is the dodges (which should be fixed of course).

Any skill can be hidden by double clicking the tonic during activation. Dodges don’t show by default in the tonic. While many skills are much harder to hide due to fast cast time, some of the longer more important to dodge skills are very easy to hide. Some are actually clicking the tonic while others are blatantly macroing it in on every skill, which is a favorite of maguama atm.

@Cerby, I find it ironic that you have now started a thread on the complaint about the kodan tonic being spammed to lower fps.

Also I had the wrong tonic last night, its mushroom not skritt.

Yuffi.2430:

Have we ever been asked to vote on keeping Desert Borderlands?

If I recall correctly the poll asked whether DBL should be used in rotation with Alpine, or 2 DBL and 1 Alpine, or 2 Alpine and 1 DBL.
The 2 Alpine and 1 DBL option was the most voted for combination.

I do not remember an option to refuse Desert Borderlands, so it would be inaccurate to say that players voted to keep it. Or has there been a different poll that I missed?

We did actually.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

The poll has ended! After removing all votes for “Don’t Count My Vote” the final results are:

65.5% No: The Desert Borderland map should continue to be supported.
34.5% Yes: The Desert Borderland map should be permanently disabled.

This means that the Desert Borderlands map will continue to be supported. Next, the Mixed Borderlands poll will be re-run to determine how the Desert Borderlands map will re-enter play. Thank you to everyone who voted!

It barely won. If I remember correctly (it needed an arbitrary 65% to win). There was a lot of outcry here about the state of the map. Soon after the fixes removing the event in the center done as well as the haybales.

Cerby.1069:

whats a skirt tonic? like wtf? lol

All ur other complaints are dumb though. If animation hiding is a problem turn on default models for all players…..problem solved. There are toooooooo toooooo toooooo many things in the game that cause extra particle and whatever effects that hide player moves….its part of wvsw. If you don’t like it you already have a solution available…theres rly no need for anet to address this farther.

I dont rly like the kodan tonics hiding dodging and what not either but its rly not a big deal in a sandbox mode like wvsw.

Maybe you should try not insulting people to get a point across. There is a particular skritt tonic that a movement component to one of it’s skill’s that leaps you forward. The cool down on the skill is reset on entry. You can use this to effectively leap away or towards opponents. It allows you to create movement when your movement skills are on cooldown.

On kodan tonic’s

How is complaining about not being able to see animations dumb? Please. Do enlighten me. You even agree with me that it is a bad feature. WvW is sandbox but that does not mean it should encourage abuse and unfair advantages. Yes, I can turn down particle effects and model settings in wvw for many of the various fx clutter, but the standard enemy model option is a pvp exclusive. At the end of all these changes there is still kodan using skills without animations on skills that have important animations built into them for counter play and you cannot see them.

Cerby.1069:

If the difference between you winning and losing is something like that…. you are playing wvsw wrong, very very wrong.

Here is where I question if you play at any kind of respectable level. Seriously, you cannot reactively play against skills you cannot see. You can guess but that’s about it. It is near chance to interrupt any kind of precast while not being able to tell if there is even an a skill going on. That’s not even getting into dodging important skills like killshot, vault, etc.

Kodan Endless Tonic a more recent addition to the game slew of tonics is causing problems with counter play. Currently people are using the tonic to hide animations of various high burst skills and dodges leaving opponents with nothing to read.

SkrittMushroom tonics are still also regularly being abused for movement poping in and out and using the movement skill while in and out of combat.

I don’t care about the questionableness of if either are an exploit or intended. The fact of the matter is people are using them to gain unfair advantages over other players.

this thread again.

@jamesdolla.3954 and anyone that shares the same viewpoint, I’ll say this the way I said it before. If you don’t like the map, don’t go on it. If you hate it so much that you want to quit then post your feedback in a constructive manner and quit already. Stop moaning, complaining and ruining the experience for everyone else that enjoys it.

Stop saying no one plays the map, or no one enjoys the map. I see lots of people on Red BL all the time. It’s a roamers haven, and it’s built to slow down zergs and the numbers reflect that.

Its been proven despite how vocal a few are against dbl, the overwhelming majority is fine with it and the community has spoken twice with votes.We still have the map and it’s not going anywhere. Pushing anet for a third vote would be a waste of resources and time.

Silverbolt.2301:

Nuzt.7894:

That rifle ability has the largest telegraph and takes like 30 minutes to fire, it’s fine, dodge it.

0.3753s cast-time with quickness, which is readily accessible the instant you enter Berserk.

Your ‘30 minutes’ and ‘largest telegraph’ is nothing but one of the WORST exaggerations I’ve ever seen in this game.

Quickness is only applied for gunflame usually. Which I agree it makes gunflame near instant. Quickness on kill shot is still very noticeable and easily counter able.

Offair.2563:

Nuzt.7894:

That rifle ability has the largest telegraph and takes like 30 minutes to fire, it’s fine, dodge it.

Duel an asura warrior and say that again.

This is a problem/complaint with asura’s in general. Every other race has noticeable animations. Due to the scale of most asura its very hard to pick up on what they are doing. If you want to do something about it submit bug reports until they give wvw standard enemy models.

Little late here are some tips:

Staff 2 does a more damage then the auto attack if you get the second part of the chain. It’s worth to use this kill like precision strike if you have the energy.

Sword offhand 4 , staff 3 and UA allow for a lot of defense for escaping/stalling.

Hardening persistence is amazing. Almost every legend has an upkeep spell with attractive effects. Using them allow you to be tankier when needed to avoid taking damage in addition to often increasing your damage. 200 toughness(5 upkeep) can been anywhere from a 5-15% damage reduction depending at where your armor and toughness stats sit.

Hammer is really only good for zergs and fighting melee targets. Sword+x is the best weapon set for power, it should always be on your bar.

Take equliberium if your running invocation. The damage seems low, but an extra crit adds a lot of burst. Try and use this during UA, or between a skill combo.

Sword offhand and staff have a neat combo, sword 5 pulls the target with you. This skill perfectly aligns you with the target meaning if you were to swap to staff 5, you land all the knockbacks and damage of surge.

Legend swaps count as weapon swaps. Which means you get a lot of millage out of on swap sigils.

The three above, allow you to do a devastating combo.If you you Sword 5 pull, swap to shiro and then staff, use heal and staff 5 you delete people if your running invocation, and hyromancy+leeching sigils on staff.

I think that the OP’s goals are a little too far of a redesign. I agree that the scale of the suggested changes would be to large. I don’t think it would be fair either to remove the class and spread its various mechanics and skills to other classes either. I totally agree with fluidmonolith’s direction and ideas.

Revenant has some really good elements and some really poor ones. I think with a soft rework, the class could very well work and be flexible with loads of interesting choices like elementalist has. Revenant biggest issues are: Bugs, energy consumption balance, Lack of mechanics, and meaningful traits.

• Bugs are simple, they need to be squashed. They havent been. We still have skills targeting the environment(UA PS), or completely whiffing on ground target skills if terrain is uneven (CoR, SF, EB TR etc), or movement skills casting in wrong/random direction (RS). I cannot believe after a year, these bugs are still present since launch and that the bug tracker only showes its working on one of them.

• Energy consumption is very problematic. Most of our skills legend wise cost all your resources. Weapon skills also consume a hefty amount. Almost all of the impactful skills can only be used once in a legend. Were forced to play this furious legend swap and then use the tools at hand. Because of the current way energy is managed you cannot use the skills you need to when you need to. Two simple fixes is to remove weapon skill costs to allow us to use energy for the legend skills exclusively or have auto chains generate energy to offset some of the costs. Glint goes against the rest of revenant by having active components cost nothing. There is currently almost 0 reasons not to pick glint because it costs nothing to use.

• Lacking mechanics. Our two most used legends are the only ones with reliable stunbreaks. Jalis could be a solid legend but RotGD is prohibitively expensive, and the road is unreliable at best. All of the legends except Jalis lack condi clear. Both ventari and mallyx lack a stunbreak or means to deal with CC. Mallyx ironically fails at being able to deal with conditions without having a group of party members to help generate resistance. While ventari lacks any kind of personal movement or offensive pressure (other than the knockback). I do have to say I like a lot of the mechanics the legends them selves have. However, each legend feels like it has giant holes in them rather than a weakness to play around due to lacking essential mechanics.

• Revenant’s biggest problem with it’s traits is that majority of the lines do not cooperate in any meaningful way. A good example of meaningful cooperation is: ranger has the wilderness survival line that has a trait gives furry on a survival skills use, while marksman has a trait that allows furry application to proc another mechanic. There are a few exceptions such as glint and retribution increasing stability on dodge, or the ability to augment heal to apply boons on something like ventari tablet (blinds, furry & protection). The majority of revenant traits don’t go down this route and only attempt to augment a legend, rather then the class as a whole. On any other class I can look at traits that between lines that work together augment the class. On rev when you attempt to do this you end up with an unusable Frankenstein because the legends are so different and have conflicting interests or can’t function due to energy consumption.

If the above issues were solved Rev would be in a really enjoyable place. Here is to hoping anet reads this thread.

I find the weapon skills them selves are fine; it’s the costs of weapon skills. Which prevents us from using the majoirty of our high cost low return legend skills(outside of glint).

I think we’d be in a lot better place if: auto attack chains generated energy or, the weapon skills didn’t cost energy. It would allow us to actually use stances for what we want to, rather than having to frantically swap back and forth to refresh the pool to anything.

Lastly, all of the legends need a rework. Glint has absolutely no costs for its skills, while the other legends attempt to be useful with one or two skills that are prohibitively expensive, while the rest remain useless.

PS every legend bneeds a stunbreak. A ranged condi weapon would also be nice.

Wharrgarbl.9263:

Fluffball.8307:

Your LB opening mention is the way to go. As you run towards the boss, hit with barrage and RF, then just camp the melee weapon of your choice. That’s pretty close to ideal play anyway for fractals.

Isnt viper like 2x the damage than berserkers?

According to this http://www.qtfy.enjin.com/dps

SB + AT is 32K DPS
SB + AT druid is 22K DPS
LB + SA druid is 16K DPS

if thats true, berserker sounds really underwhelming, why does anyone use it?

You need to learn three things:

The SB + AT is 32k selfish DPS. A selfish SA + LB Ranger build will get up to 27k DPS.

No one in the speed clearing guilds are going to be bringing a pure power ranger build into a raid for its dps, there are other classes that have much better dps. They will however bring a power druid for the group utility. People are more opt to bring in a condi druid than a condi ranger for the utility except when they are lacking in condi dps. None of this means that power ranger is not viable, its just not optimal.

QT dps tests are examples of the highest forms optimal of play. If you see that condi axe torch + shortbow build does 32k dps on their site and think you or any other avg joe does that much than you do your self a disservice. Anyone considered half decent is going to get 80% of that dps. Only people that truly know the nuisances of the class are going to be able to get close to that.

DPS only really matters if your speed clearing or doing raid encounters that have hard checks. Outside of that anything that does roughly 22-25k dps is more than viable for almost every encounter.

It’s frankly better for you to learn to play the class on sets your comfortable with and do medicore dps, than attempt to run a build you have no understanding of and spend half the encounter on your bottom; doing no dps.

@Wharrgarbl camping weapons is generally considered bad. As one of our best traits is focused on weapon swapping. If your looking for a class that camps weapons then look no further than guardian with hammer.

If my hands were tied and I had to camp a set on ranger I’d have to choose between staff and sword warhorn. Staff while being lowest dps of our weapons but, will get you the least amount of flack from groups as you at least offer support. Sword warhorn offers a bit more damage and some boon/blast support.

When your looking to improve at encounters look into meta builds and ask your self why people do certain things or use certain traits. If you can’t figure out why, ask people.

Balthazzarr.1349:

Hey Qurly…. you might fall even further when I tell ya… I’ve been in this game since it came out… and FUN is the only reason I play. It’s about the people I know and simply having fun.. No glicko, no ppt, nothing like that… in WvW I like the fights here and there, and knocking down t3 keeps and towers when we can but there is NO score in my sight. Unless you call FUN a score… that’s it…

100% agree. The way you describe playing the game mode is the way I enjoy it as well.

MelGT.8326:

Has condi revenant even been fixed yet? I was considering playing the game again because I loved the playstyle of it in PvE, but the last time I tried it, or even played the game (in the early part of the year), it was practically unplayable because of bugs with the fire field skill, mace #2 I think, not working on unveven (read: any) terrain.

nope they haven’t. Anet finally admitted that CoR has the same terrain issue on hammer and put it up on the issue tracker. I sent them in a ticket that mace 2 and axe 5 have the same issue. The reply was basically that’s nice, were only interested in fixing CoR though.

So my bet is never going to happen.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Eval.2371:

• We lack survivability to deal with aoe cleave. When we are in a big fight we resort to haphazardly dodging to avoid aoe cleave because if we don’t we melt to sheer amount of it.

I think you mean passive survivability because dodging is the active version of it.

The only reliable passive survivability the Thief have is buried in SA and only active when in stealth — yet ArenaNet keeps on adding anti-stealth into the game.

Alternatives can be passive survivability. It could also come in the form of active defenses from skills. The issue I am trying to touch on here is that dodges are primarily what allow us to create space and don’t allow us to be locked down in addition to avoiding damage. We have three mechanic of damage mitigation(dodge, blind, slteath). Two of which are unreliable vs AoE. While other classes multiples that are reliable vs aoe.

The reasonable thing to ask for here is for other classes AoE to both be toned down in radii and damage, but anet seems to thing having aoes the size of two char cars is fine. They also seem to think its ok if they do 10k damage or apply multiple conditions as well. So the only thing we can do is ask for more tools to better do our job.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Eval.2371:

• We lack the ability to indefinitely pressure targets that have an abundance of passive defenses or immunities. Stealth attack? block. Unload spam? invuln, Stack bleed & confusion? resistance.

This is really not about the Thief, rather it’s about those professions. ArenaNet needs to create a window of opportunity against those professions. The constant turtling is not only annoying to play against but as an spectator, it’s also boring to watch.

Totally agree on this point. Sadly anet is instant on not adjusting the unhealthy patterns that are available to some classes and are happy with that. The only other thing we can ask for are tools that allow us counter play to those defenses.

Junkpile.7439:

Anet should give loyalty rewards.

This. Make WvW legendary armor tied to server loyalty. Make transferring sacrifice your progress.

Why don’t we just reopen bg, give everyone a free 1 time transfer and all finally go to BG. Then we can all be on the best server. It’ll be great! I promise.

Jerry CCH.9816:

First thx Anet Test this match BG/JQ/TC.
Your WvW team doing great job again !

We all know why WvW not blance,because some Server have OCX/SEA another not.

JQ/TC have better SEA/OCX Coverage than FA/Mag.

Anet Need let BG/JQ/TC keep at T1 and give JQ link Server.

Those T2 SEA/OCX no one can fight people will xfer to JQ or TC

the blance gonna be over "

---

Anet WvW staff can check hows wvw at ocx/sea.

it’s really Awsome this week "

This is the second request thread I’ve seen from you in about 2 weeks. The first one was to open JQ. It happened you guys got stacked up. Here’s my perspective:

Last week we(TC) got absolutely smashed all day by stacked JQ. Then come prime time when we actually have more than 15 people there is barely a JQ to be found to fight. So I find it a bit frustrating to read what you have typed here. Nothing changed with JQ opening; all you guys got was more SEA/OCX players and continued to do what JQ does best; which is Ktrain (but now harder) during off hours.

It’s aggravating to go to bed at 12am EST with most of the our stuff upgraded and secured only to wake up 8 hours later to a JQ capped sea of objectives. In addition not being able to do anything for another 9 hours while the JQ blobs farms champ bags and camps spawn. BG is no different. They just have the numbers to do this all hours of the day.

Giving JQ a link that has a decent population of NA prime and EU would prob do the server a lot of good for making it a fair match up vs the 10000 pound gorilla black gate is.

However, in doing so your not going to balance out the third server in the match up and just see them give up the match and fall out. Simply put the rest of the servers don’t have good SEA/OCX coverage during the week and two servers literally hog all the players for that coverage. BG, JQ with a link vs X makes the match up pointless for X in the current state for populations.

@OP

I’d love an evade on mallyx unyielding anguish. That said, I would rather the skill be a stunbreak, rather than an evade. If the skill became a stunbreak or both with an evade, I could finally drop shiro which I believe is mandatory for condi rev from a pvp standpoint right now.

hypehype.9047:

I have had to relearn condi rev for the 4th time but think i have worked out a build that works.

2000 power 1000 condi damage ~500-700 healing
invocation(cleans/equi/roil),corruption(demo/banish/diabo),herald(hard/shared/elder)

mallyx/glint
mace/shield staff

to stomp use glint stun break or blast unyielding anguish
stack might with mace 2,3 and facet.

took advice from people hear to drop retribution it is no good for condi rev now.

Just my own personal experience after the patch where I went full circle:

First I dropped retribution after the patch. I tried making salvations blinds(which are pretty amazing team wide blind during heal cast), condi clear on dodge and the rooting grandmaster to work for a burn based build. I’d catch a few people off guard the first time they fought me but after that it was basically a useless gimmick.

Experimented with jallis on top of it. It was very immobile but tanky. I had tones of ways to root or pull people into searing fisher with mace/sword & jallis taunt… the problem was I’d get locked up in cc and couldn’t do anything.

Then tried invocation with jallis as well as glint. I was able to stunbreak, but it often didn’t matter as I would stay locked up until I could disengage which was very hard to do on either line. I could sustain through a lot break stuns often, but couldn’t disengage or reset and I didn’t have anything that could prevent my opponents from doing so. In the long run I would just get out sustained and kited.

Now I am back on retribution, with shiro. Why? because having shiro stun break is essential. Riposting shadows breaks stun and evades which means a chance at stab with retribution. The rest of shiro allows you to chase people. All that changed from the old build is you have to dodge something to actually get the stab and its not up as often. Shiro and retribution I find are the most reliable of all the other combo’s because you can chase, engage, disengage etc.

it was open so it prob does now.

By all means switch up to jq. Enjoy the ktrain. Dont actually bother to get good, just outnumber every engagement 5:1. I think your only welcome to jq if you play condi mesmer or thief though. That’s the only way to get good.

Eval.2371:

• We lack survivability to deal with aoe cleave. When we are in a big fight we resort to haphazardly dodging to avoid aoe cleave because if we don’t we melt to sheer amount of it.

• We lack the ability to indefinitely pressure targets that have an abundance of passive defenses or immunities. Stealth attack? block. Unload spam? invuln, Stack bleed & confusion? resistance.

• Trickery & DrD are mandatory. Because of the two above, we are reduced to spaming both our defensive and offensive mechanics. Be it aimless dodges in hope to avoid cleave, or unloads chained together because its our only good option, or stacking stealth endlessly until we have an opportunity to land a stealth attack. Not having trickery or DrD limits your ability to succeed in either category as you will run out of resources.

Until these three get fixed we wont have any semblance of weapon or build diversity. d/d, s/p s/d, p/d and p/p suck because thief it self falls short. Were unreliable gimmick at best in the current meta without d/p or daredevil.

I do agree that our current system does not work. However, I am certain the purposed idea will change very little. Here are the flaws I see:

• Many people not all just want an easy bag train. Staying on the stack servers guarantees that experience remains the same. There is no incentive for these people to change server.

• Most higher tier servers just have better off hour coverage. At prime times and reset everyone I have faced in tier 1 & 2 have the numbers and good fights, it’s the off hours that decide the rest of the match. Having smaller servers changes nothing, as there will still be coverage problems. Unless somehow you force all the SEA/OCA guild to specifically move to them.

• Most people are content with their current server & community, there is no incentive to leave those ties.

I like option 2. Why because it promotes the guilds them selves. Which will do a lot more for guilds growth and recognition. While I do recognize the odd specific people from the server community, its usually groups that I recognize more than anything else.
Servers come and go with linkings as do people with migration, guild tags I always recognize those.

I think option 1 alienates both groups.

Option 3 would be better if option 2 can’t be done.

XTR.9604:

Dire everything is just insanely strong right now on just about any class. Condi needs nurfed badly, it has been said since HoT came out that condi was way too powerful. Falling on deaf ears some times it seems.

Anyway, it isn’t unkillable, you just need the right class and build to kill it with. I’ve eaten up a lot of these cheese condi mesmers on my Guardian, Elementalist, and Warrior. You have to try hard to outplay them though and bring all the condi clear you have.

It seems people are switching to the dire variant, as they are becoming more and more common and roaming in packs now. I’ll say it bad players are changing to this build/class. Because it is easy and effective. Even my warrior is beginning to struggle to keep the conditions in line with high resistance uptime in group fights.

Totally agree its not unkillable. I don’t deny that there is counter play just not enough of it. Currently it takes considerable amount more of skill and effort to take one out than to play one currently.

I can testify that its brainless and easy because I tried one out for a couple days, having little understanding of the the condi weapons and traits and I could easily roll people. I honestly found it boring. Some people just enjoy winning at all cost. That’s what the dire meta build is. The build overall is an abuse case and something need to be done about it.

Compared to power mesmer which I have much more understanding of; it’s an absolute cake walk.

OriOri.8724:

This is the problem with just instinctively wanting to nerf chrono’s defensive abilities. They have already been nerfed hard compared to when it was first released. And any further nerfs would unfairly hurt other builds.

While that is true that they have had some of the defensive abilties nerfed, they still are consistently able to keep pressure off them by chaining together movement and invuln/block skills together… it takes glaring mistakes from the chrono prespective for the match up to not end in stalemate in a set of dire or trailblazers stats.

OriOri.8724:

Nerf perplexity runes. They are honestly extremely overpowered. Lower both the 2nd and 6th bonus by 5% duration, so the total confusion duration would only be 20% instead of 30%. And reduce the amount of stacks that the 4th and 6th bonus give to 2 stacks each.

Then also balance the application of condis that mesmer can put out. Scepter can put out both torment and confusion, which are extremely deadly in PvP/WvW and relatively tame in PvE. Apply either one or the other and also apply burning/poison/bleeding on the scepter. Makes it less powerful in PvP/WvW while more useful in PvE.

I agree 100% that perplex is an issue that needs to be addressed. I also agree that the application on scepter may need to be adjusted. I somewhat agree that gutting mesmers/chrono defensive options is not the right path either. I simply want them to have to choose between defense and offense. Instead of the current pattern where they can have an abundance of both in a condi build.

In all honesty I think the only way mesmer/chrono can keep its current defensive options is if they make condi duration as whole require crits to get the gains from the increased condi duration stat and then uncap the limit. It’s the only way to make many of the problematic condi bunkers have to choose between defense and offense, not both. Do I think it will happen? Very unlikely. The only other option then is to reduce its defensive options.

By all means, if you have a better ideas do contribute them.

I’ve talked about this before in another thread. This will basically be copy pasta.

My three biggest issues/priories are:

Eval.2371:

• We lack survivability to deal with aoe cleave. When we are in a big fight we resort to haphazardly dodging to avoid aoe cleave because if we don’t we melt to sheer amount of it.

• We lack the ability to indefinitely pressure targets that have an abundance of passive defenses or immunities. Stealth attack? block. Unload spam? invuln, Stack bleed & confusion? resistance.

• Trickery & DrD feel mandatory. Because of the two above, we are reduced to spaming both our defensive and offensive mechanics. Be it aimless dodges in hope to avoid cleave, or unloads chained together because its our only good option, or stacking stealth endlessly until we have an opportunity to land a stealth attack. Not having trickery or DrD limits your ability to succeed in either category as you will run out of resources.

Out of all the condi builds out there Condi chrono is the least enjoyable opponent across all my classes in all game modes(i’d rather laugh at a ghost thief try and kill me honestly). I generally feel that it is a waste of time to even invest in a fight because against an equally skilled opponent the fight will always end in a stalemate or a 10-15 minute dance.

I do think there are some forms of counter play such as removing conditions and interrupting or dodging the main applicators, but currently the reset patterns of mesmer and low cooldowns for high application in addition to the inulvns and shield 4 are just unhealthy. I think condi mesmer general problem is it does not have to sacrifice between damage and survivability and has more baked in defensive options than any other condition class.

Here are my suggestions:

They need to either remove perplex runes completely or put it back into pvp and properly balance it across both game modes.

Anet either needs to change the amount of application: via cd increases or lower stacks of application OR the defensive capabilities need to be opened up to allow for more approachable windows. of attack.

Personally I am a fan of the latter rather than the former as I rarely have an issue with dealing with stacks, its more being able to find an opening.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBmYD7kSFoWQshFwfFgrFsMLYPBg603C+fWQfoORtrWWrkpFG-TlCFQBE8IAYgLAwCVegOdD4T9nGcQAAwDAoiKBZ3+DIUJGpAycMA-w

This is how you properly build a staff druid.

DeceiverX.8361:

The initiative cost for its damage is too low. BP + HS -> Backstab can be interrupted similarly, Unload suffers from a similar channel, FS->LS if used sequentially is extremely easy to punish, and CnD has objectively longer punish frames while providing less damage, no gap close, and no evade.

The damage is comparable to unload, backstab & pistolwhip. FS/LS have a terrible after cast between skills… its actually faster or FS use 1 then LS than it is to FS->LS, but thats off topic. CnD comparison is irrelevant, as it should be used for the stealth for backstab rather than the actual damage component its self.

DeceiverX.8361:

If moved to 6, it’d be barely recognizable except in instances where it gets spammed. The skill currently allows three consecutive casts all in a row without traiting for Trickery. With Trickery, it enables almost four.

The skill only allows 3 consecutive casts with trickery atm. I don’t know what grass your smoking but you cannot do more than two back to back without trickery.

People that are going to die to vault are going to die to regardless of the cost if you cannot dodge burst skills spammed back to back, your not going to make it far in any kind of pvp.

Ive already outlined this is my post above, you can get more dmg in aoe format from using debilitating arc to get a full auto chain down in the same time frame.

DeceiverX.8361:

That, or its damage needs to drop. There’s no reason for it to be hitting harder than backstab with the further capacity to hit substantially harder than backstab at peak via Staff Master (the wiki’s coefficient is wrong; it’s actually 2.52).

I wouldn’t have much of an issue with it if I couldn’t hit for 30k damage per vault at 5 initiative on no cooldown

Ah yes, claiming damage numbers are absurd while on valk signet build. Your the same person that has shown me 15k CnD’s followed by 30k+ backstabs with your build… and turn around and spew this? I am not buying it…

The only people that are going to see that high of numbers are people that run pure glass like you. Vault or not that gameplay will be binary because of it and to be frank the weapon isnt the cause, its the % modifies after being juiced up on valk gear with furious oils.

The avg thief gets 10k at most out of bound and thats running crit strikes on a target with no armor. Your avg staff thief is running acro trickery DrD and might see 8k vaults.