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Excalibur.9748, what Profession are you out of interest ?
Thief…. why?
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well considering, i spent 4 gold, with 50+ tries, and tons of time theorycrafting a variety of builds…. if think if anyone wants the mini they have to work for it, like I did. It wouldn’t be fun if everyone could just ez-mode through it.
So…do I understand correctly that whether or not you have fun completing content is determined by whether or not other people were able to complete it?
That’s just…not something I understand.
it wouldn’t be fun for anyone. the final boss of the tournament should be hard, don’t you agree. what’s the point of making the final boss ez mode? that would just be a joke of a tournament.
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‘Champion of the Gauntlet’ or something along those lines. The mini is fine but it goes back into the inventory every time you die…is that even intended?
A title like this would be sufficient compensation for the amount of work required to defeat her.
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Nerfing liadri would just be ANET caving into the majority and making all content accessible to everyone again.
Honestly, what is the big deal that some people have with needing the game content to not be accessible to everyone?
It seems as if the same people that are so fond of pointing out that frustrated players don’t need the achievements and/or rewards from certain content are always forgetting that they also don’t need to feel like an uber-special-crystalline-snowflake because they have something that someone else doesn’t.
well considering, i spent 4 gold, with 50+ tries, and tons of time theorycrafting a variety of builds…. if think if anyone wants the mini they have to work for it, like I did. It wouldn’t be fun if everyone could just ez-mode through it.
Did you really think that spending 4 gold and 50+ tries (Meaning 49+ tries failing repeatedly) was ‘fun’ though?
I mean hats off to you if you did. I didn’t find a single moment of it enjoyable.
well kinda…because I like boss rushes. it was also very frustrating though tbh. but in the end it’s worth it since I love the mini and what it stands for.
I really think people comlain too much though. I hate jump puzzles and they have tied a lot of rewards with them…I never complained because I get that some people like jumping, but I would have grounds to complain that tying rewards to jump puzzles (especially kittenes) isn’t fair then?
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Nerfing liadri would just be ANET caving into the majority and making all content accessible to everyone again.
Honestly, what is the big deal that some people have with needing the game content to not be accessible to everyone?
It seems as if the same people that are so fond of pointing out that frustrated players don’t need the achievements and/or rewards from certain content are always forgetting that they also don’t need to feel like an uber-special-crystalline-snowflake because they have something that someone else doesn’t.
well considering, i spent 4 gold, with 50+ tries, and tons of time theorycrafting a variety of builds…. if think if anyone wants the mini they have to work for it, like I did. It wouldn’t be fun if everyone could just ez-mode through it.
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@Excalibur, it worked on the first try after my re-build! thanks so much!
np build works for every single fight in gauntlet too. including liadri. after i killed liadri i went back and absolutely schooled everyone else, just replaced the one acrobatics trait for quick recovery that’s it.
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there’s some luck involved but if you try enough times you’ll eventually beat it if you know what you’re doing. the camera is fine…ofcourse it’d be 100x easier if you could zoom out/bird’s eye view, but then there would be no challenge. never had any problems with seeing the AoE indicators on the ground either….
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I totally agree with this sentiment.
I consider myself to be a pretty good player. I was able to beat every other gauntlet boss on the first attempt without looking up their attacks. However, when I got to Liadri, it took me roughly 35 attempts to actually beat her.
While although difficulty is welcomed, this sort of ‘difficulty’ is much more frustrating and aggravating than it is fun. It is not fun to spend hours doing the same exact content repeatedly only to fail and fail again. I can only imagine how it is for players that have spent over 100+ attempts on this.
To add to this, they added an exclusive reward to it which you cannot get unless you beat it, made the content temporary so you are time constrained, and also require a cost of entry to even attempt it.
To make something so frustrating and alienating to such a large number of players is a terrible design decision. Even though I have beaten it, I wholeheartedly support a total nerf of this boss.
Well the whole point of the mini is so that it would be exclusive. Nerfing liadri would just be ANET caving into the majority and making all content accessible to everyone again.
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How do you beat the Pirate Crew? I cannot seem to stay alive for more than a few seconds after I defeat the first one. I try to kill Stitches first.
pistol whip spam works really nice with a 4-signet build. after it’s just one left, bring out dual pistols and spam unload.
What signet build is this? It’s been around 15 times now and I can’t kill more than two of them :c
But swap the acrobatics trait with quick recovery, 2init per 10 seconds since you don’t need to cleanse cripple or weakness.
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Yeah i think the fight isn’t that hard if you know how it works, how your character works and how the mechanics of the game work. On a scale from 1-5
where 1 is farmville and 5 is touhou i would give that a 4;
perfect for advanced players and still doable if you are competent.
It was hard for me but build I used was not optimal (didn’t want to regear). I’d say with the most optimal class and build it’s not too hard. Ofcourse, actually attaining that build is part of what theorycrafting and build is about. It’s definately a part of this fight.
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How do you beat the Pirate Crew? I cannot seem to stay alive for more than a few seconds after I defeat the first one. I try to kill Stitches first.
pistol whip spam works really nice with a 4-signet build. after it’s just one left, bring out dual pistols and spam unload.
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Yeah, owning a Liadri mini is now a requirement to join my dungeon parties.
Elitists for life, fist bump!
Props bro!
Angry mob of bads inc who tell you the fight is luck based and horribly designed!
:O
I don’t think they’re bad if they don’t have a mini, they’re just average joes xD
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When I bring it out, I feel like it says a lot.
First fight in the game that actually takes skill [ combat related skills ], knowledge [ theory crafting and build ], and base stats [ equipment + food ]
If someone has a liadri mini I know they’re good! They know their class well and what they’re capable of, has the require damage and sustain for pretty much anything PvE related and that they know how to DODGE.
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I was able to finally do it without buying any condi gear. I was originally doing it with only 1 zerk piece but finally I caved in and got 2 ascended zerk trinkets. So overall attack is nowhere as high as a full zerk build.
I did it with P/P and S/P. P/P is the key to this build and what you’ll be using 95% of the time, S/P is only to deal with orbs, more on that later.
The build [4 signet build xD]:
Signet of Malice
Infiltrator Signet
Signet of Shadows
Signet of Agility
Thieves guild
20 DA:
Mug , Sundering strikes
30 Critical strikes:
Side strike, pistol mastery, Executioner
20 Acrobatics
Power of inertia, Fleet of foot.
The MAIN difference between this build and other builds is that it will work with basically any thief gear. But probably optimal for gear that is tanky direct damage. I was almost gonna cave in and buy condi gear then I decided I wanted to do it with the gear I have.
Phase 1:
-This phase gets easier the more you do it but there are still a few components that are luck based. What you want to do here is FIRST kill the orb with mug. Then target liadra and then start AAing her (tip: definately get into a party so you can actually target her). Use unload when health gets lower than full. If you do it properly you can basically keep full health or near full health all throughout phase 1. I wouldn’t put TOO much emphasis on dodging the crap thrown at you because you can sustain through most of it but if you can afford to strafe (basically by being closer to the edges of the dome you will have a higher chance of evading the crap thrown at you) then you can dodge most of them. The trick to beating this phase is knowing that Liadra can’t 1 shot you, the AoE and the visions can. Another trick is basically that don’t waste the dodge the MOMENT you see the AoE circle, what you wanna do is actually to time 1,2, then dodge, that way even if you’re still on the AoE circle you won’t die because you can evade all of it. STAY closer to the center of the room it will make evading tons easier.
Forgot to say that you have to lure the visions into the yellow vortex on the ground. when they stand on it, a crystal will apear at that spot. Pick it up (beware long animation time) and throw it with the 1st attack towards liadra. I always throw this crystal at her when I’m standing very close to her because this will ensure it connects (again beware long animation time)
Phase 2:
Once you get the hang of it, liadra isn’t much of a threat. The AoE covers both sides of the room in an hour glass shape. What you basically want to do is always go TOWARDS the place that has been previously struck by the shadowfall, in a circle (don’t go back and forth, you may bump into a vision accidentally). Stay closer to the center of the room so you don’t even need to evade with 25% passive movement speed. Basically you want to save the evade for when you get crippled, since when you evade it will give you swiftness and cleanse the cripple since you have a trait that does this. There is another advantage to being in the center of the room, and that is you have a clear shot at liadra wherever she may be. Just keep unloading on her (this is your main damage AND sustain). Summon thieves guild once you get a chance. If you run into an orb close by you’re lucky!! you can cast mug on it to 1shot it. But if you see an orb on the other side of the room, that is when it gets tricky. What you basically wanna do is to chain infiltrator signet -> infiltrator strike -> steal into it to 1 shot it. This may seem overkill but I think it’s worth it. I haven’t actually had a chance to test this strategy though since I managed to kill liadra just before I got pulled but this seems like a good strategy to me. It’s really risky to walk into 900 range to steal because you will likely be pulled into AoE before you get to cast steal. Also don’t forget you can rally off the orbs, though you shouldn’t count on it.
For food I used mixed berry pie, and I always had the rata sum buff going in. Altogether it took me 50 tries and 4 gold to finally clear her but mostly I just did it because it’s basically the hardest thing in the game. The mini is cool too!
Well good luck soldiers…..
PS guide is long because the boss is freaking hard, really. Also keep in mind there is a 2minute time limt for each encounter, though I have never actually passed that time limit. I have always either died or won lol. When the time limit expires, you’ll know since the floor basically collapses and you fall to your death.
video demo: http://www.twitch.tv/sakraycore/c/2763587
equip used: http://www.twitch.tv/sakraycore/c/2763653
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(edited by Excalibur.9748)
it would still be spammed, but now with more damage to boot. this wouldn’t change a thing except hurt the people who use it for mobility.
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My main is a thief and it’s the only one at 80.
I dunno how to fix it, it may be balanced, but it’s so effective despite being skill-less I dunno what to make of it. It seems to be begging for a dmg and initiative increase, so it’ll be just as powerful, but won’t be as spamable.
how is it effective???
it’s called dodging the heart seekers. try it sometime it works good.
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Drop Black Powder. You’re now immune to Warrior. Other than that just hit him and dodge frantically when he gets close.
AoE thief from outside the powder…berserker stance….there’s no rule stating the warrior must stand in the black powder.
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the warrior MUST be using healing signet and adrenal health and also high toughness (3900 for WvW, maybe lower for sPvP)
They will still hit hard as a truck – 100% crit rate with unsuspecting foe and signet of rage. also if they’re using lemongrass – runes of melandru – dogged march…-98% condition duration which they should be using.
berserker stance should be used to nullify effects of the blindpowder and burst the thief through it.
if said warrior doesn’t use the optimal spec, it wouldn’t be a fair fight.
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(edited by Excalibur.9748)
yes but do not only put videos where you win in. if you fight him 10 times don’t post only the 1 time you win please. the build is a 1v1 build and should be quite strong so not suprised if the warrior wins you more.
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if dancing dagger nerf was reverted we would see some more diverse skill usage for sure. I mean thieves USED to use dancing dagger against packs of 2 since it did more damage than heartseeker, but only for that case.
In general, we need buffs to make other skills worth using instead of nerfing the only skill that is worth using.
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When you have a profession where most of their skills either weak and utility-heavy or damaging, you are going to get alot of skill spamming. DPS is king afterall and thieves’ selection of truely damaging abilities are limited.
We only got backstab, heartseeker, and unload. All the rest are more for utility imo.
CND? Set up a backstab.
FS/LS? 1/4s evade, strip boons.
Dancing dagger? ranged cripple
Headshot? interrupt
Blackpowder? blind and dark field
etc etc We don’t have a lot of choices for when we want to deal damage. It’s pretty much heartseeker or auto attack and auto attack doesn’t really need to be used since it’s auto…
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Well it depends if there are other skills that can used for dealing maximum DPS.
Auto attack is automatically used so that rules it out. Heartseeker is great yes. Death blossom is for condi specs so that rules it out for power specs. Dancing dagger would’ve nice…if it didn’t get nerfed to oblivion. CND is used for setting up a backstab…which is unnecessary if the target’s back is already facing you since backstab does more damage and you wouldn’t be wasting time standing in stealth doing no damage.
In some occassions, heartseeker spam just makes sense. One thing the dev should do is maybe buff our other skills so we can use more than 1 skill and that would also cut down on the Heartseeker spam QQ since we would be using a diverse array of skills to kill an opponent.
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(edited by Excalibur.9748)
you got Light up the darkness achievement already?
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To be fair, warrior is way ahead of everyone else in PvE after the healing signet buff in particular. But thief could stand to be buffed a bit for PvE. Need more mitigation, sustain. Damage I would say is fine though. Could also use more group utility.
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Just keep zig-zagging at range and you will avoid most of her attacks.
On phase 2… I got hit once.
ya cuz you bursted her down in phase 2 before it was even setup. only possible with warrior anyways.
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Liadra doesn’t need to be nerfed, other classes besides warrior needs to be buffed to warrior levels.
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Are you talking about phase 1 or phase 2 now?
both.
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You don’t really need sustain in this fight. The only reason why my health is dropping is because I need to generate adrenaline.
So I think the main tactic is:
1. Cripple the boss
2. Clump the enemy clones with the boss
3. Use fear me
4. Bull’s charge + frenzy + 100blades + whirling to a safe spot.
this should bring the boss down to 25% hp
Separate the boss from the clones and finish the job.
Sounds about right? – Requires extremely good timing….I don’t think Fear Me! requires precise timing. If clones are away you probably don’t have to even use it. That said, I still have done this only few times.
5 successful attempts out of 20 from one of the best solo players in the game, good luck to any normal folks attempting this.
Hey, I also need some tries to understand what’s going on! And I played really aggressively to get a good looking video (I died so many times when an orb was right next to a clone).
it helps a lot. the only reason i die on my thief is due to lack of sustain and mitigation.
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(edited by Excalibur.9748)
Make no mistake people.
What this guys shows here is more than just Warrior being strong. He has full control over his class and made not a single mistake. He knew exactly “what” she was doing and “when”. He is also the type of player that doesn’t take the easy way out looking at the way he dodges these AoE attacks while all he could do is just step aside.
His damage was insane, but still 1 mistake and he would have been dead just like any other person. anyways Good Job there and solid skills.
What other classes can burst Liadri down before her second phase even has a chance of properly activating? I’m honestly curious here. Not denying that he’s great at playing a warrior because that much is obvious. Just questioning why other classes can’t compete.
I think a thief could do that kind of damage.
but with no where near that sustain or mitigation
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the disadvantage of range is that it does significantly less damage than melee. that alone, makes ranged almost useless. maybe it differs for other classes but I know I almost never use ranged for 1v1.
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You won’t be able to catch a GS warrior that has Last Stand & Mobile Strikes traited unless you’re a S/D thief.
*S/D thief with ~+70% condi duration. And even still, is not an easy catch by any means.
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hard for us to faceroll with the revealed bug. 60 secs of reaveald? wtf
we can’t faceroll anything cuz ANET keeps nerfing us and buffing warriors.
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I did most of them with S/P, some with shortbow, some with P/P.
I’m going to try Liadri tonight with either S/P + P/P or S/P + shortbow tonight. I know condition build will work but I want to crush her second form with pistol whips ftw.
its not liadri u fight. i mean it is…but its the clones you really have to watch out for which are generally all over her most of the time.
i know warrior is op, but i want to faceroll liadri too ;_;
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Class is simply broke. Healing signet got way overtuned for the amount of action necessary.
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Healing Signet isn’t any worse than the constant regen + other boons you can stack to high heaven on Eles and Guardians.
guardians don’t have the mobility, eles don’t have the CC, not to mention that both are hard countered by boon stripping – a hard counter that doesn’t exist here.
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skullcrack says hi
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healing signet alone is cheesy enough.
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I did most of them with S/P, some with shortbow, some with P/P.
I’m going to try Liadri tonight with either S/P + P/P or S/P + shortbow tonight. I know condition build will work but I want to crush her second form with pistol whips ftw.
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Panic strike shouldnt be grandmaster imo. It is kinda fun to use with a spike build though on a D/D thief. Mix it with Basilisk venom and someone is locked down until they die. But at that rate you might as well just take residual venom and not lose your panic strike when hitting a random foe <50% hp.
agreed. it’s obviously UP for grandmasters.
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That is like saying Warrior is underpowered.
warrior is OP now with their new mace/shield + greatsword build in WvW. always been OP in PvE too. but the most op part is their buffed healing signet. 390+ HPS for a passive heal, HIGHEST HPS in the game, totally passive.
And yet, not a single Warrior was seen in PAX Tournament. And by your definition, Warrior is underpowered in tPvP.
warrior is bottom tier in tPvP currently, but I think it’s more that the meta hasn’t caught up to warrior buffs yet. In the next tournament you can expect to see more warriors (if they don’t get nerfed)
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Similar
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_BolasThrow Bolas
Utility (tier 1) Type Physical
Not available underwater ½ Activation time 20 Recharge timeThrow bolas to immobilize your foe 4 s
Damage Damage: 61
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 900This skill causes the longest base duration of immobilized.
Would be more similar if panic strike had 20s icd.
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i don’t think you know what pawning means OP
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That is like saying Warrior is underpowered.
warrior is OP now with their new mace/shield + greatsword build in WvW. always been OP in PvE too. but the most op part is their buffed healing signet. 390+ HPS for a passive heal, HIGHEST HPS in the game, totally passive.
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I don’t think this trait is bad or weak but there are just better choices.
Isn’t that the definition of underpowered?
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at the moment one only. and its 30 sec cooldown overall, not just on target you immobilised
but what if you use an attack that hits multiple targets at once and you bring them to under 50% HP simultaneously?
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does the immobilize apply to multiple targets or just 1?
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? It’s a 4s immobilize.
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Like you said, this build is better than yours. Just because you were able to beat him with a worse build (you said this yourself) by playing better/more unpredictable doesn’t mean it’s not OP.
The argument is pretty bad.
Just because a build is considered “better” than another doesn’t mean it’s immediately OP.
Your argument is even worse. In fact, you should feel bad about it, because it’s so useless to the conversation at hand.
I’m still waiting for people against this build to actually put any effort into presenting their builds and demonstrating their own weaknesses. Too afraid of the spotlight, I suppose, or just uninterested in putting forth the effort. If the latter is true, I see no reason why I should put forth any effort countering said arguments.
I just don’t think the method he’s using to demonstrate the build is not OP, is effective. I mean it is pretty obvious that player skill matters too. A really good player using a mediocre build could possibly beat a crappy player with an OP build. Does that mean the OP build is balanced? No it just means the crappy player got outplayed.
I know you’re trying to defend your class, but come on.
Along the same vein, I’m still looking to hear some actual counters to this build other than lolStunBreak, lolDodge, lolBlind, lolRange because those are generic counters to melee builds.
If a build was not OP, it wouldn’t even need to be defended. It would be a non issue. It’s pretty obvious you guys are panicking at this point…
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(edited by Excalibur.9748)
Like you said, this build is better than yours. Just because you were able to beat him with a worse build (you said this yourself) by playing better/more unpredictable doesn’t mean it’s not OP.
The argument is pretty bad.
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